Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Sean Corfield
On 5/7/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ah, well still pittance I suppose considering the amount of time (and JD)
> Mark spends on the project in his own time.

Certainly no one should underestimate the time Mark spends on this project!

His work on the new frameworks explorer plugin is awesome - it's
already making me more productive and I'm very grateful for that. He
has two more projects in the works, to be announced at Scotch and at
CFUNITED.

Adobe help where they can and Mark consults them on stuff but they
don't drive the project, as far as I can tell.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
Ah, well still pittance I suppose considering the amount of time (and JD)
Mark spends on the project in his own time.



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-Original Message-
From: Doug Bezona
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Mon May 07 20:27:30 2007
Subject: Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

I think he refers to the fact that Adobe foots the bill for the web and file
hosting for CFEclipse.

On 5/7/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Resources? You mean Mark?
>




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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Doug Bezona
I think he refers to the fact that Adobe foots the bill for the web and file
hosting for CFEclipse.

On 5/7/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Resources? You mean Mark?
>


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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
Resources? You mean Mark?




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-Original Message-
From: Mike Kear
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Mon May 07 18:44:30 2007
Subject: Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

Adobe might not be in the drivers seat, but by the very nature of the
resources they wield in the CFEclipse project, you could say ( to
continue your metaphor) that they're holding the GPS.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month



On 5/8/07, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear.  Spent all weekend moving and
> painting, so my mind's a little shot.
>
> What I meant to say is that CFEclipse is not an Adobe controlled
> product.  It's managed by people outside Adobe, and while they do back
> it, they're not in the drivers seat.  Flex, on the other hand, is an
> Adobe product, and open source or not, Adobe is still in charge of
> what Flex 2.5 (or whatever is next) is.
>
> Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for all your hard work on CFE!
> It's still got it's bumps, but it's rockin'.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>



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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Mike Kear
Adobe might not be in the drivers seat, but by the very nature of the
resources they wield in the CFEclipse project, you could say ( to
continue your metaphor) that they're holding the GPS.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month



On 5/8/07, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear.  Spent all weekend moving and
> painting, so my mind's a little shot.
>
> What I meant to say is that CFEclipse is not an Adobe controlled
> product.  It's managed by people outside Adobe, and while they do back
> it, they're not in the drivers seat.  Flex, on the other hand, is an
> Adobe product, and open source or not, Adobe is still in charge of
> what Flex 2.5 (or whatever is next) is.
>
> Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for all your hard work on CFE!
> It's still got it's bumps, but it's rockin'.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>

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RE: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Big Mad Kev
Adobe do have a say as they are part of the foundation

http://www.adobe.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2005/eclipse_flashplatform.html

Put the point of Eclipse is that others can create plugins for the platform
be it free (CFE) or commercial (flexBuilder / MyEclipse)

With many other companies supplying Eclipse plugins (XML SPY etc) means you
have one tool environment to do all your development with out having to open
many applications, making life easier in my view.

-Original Message-
From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 07 May 2007 18:19
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear.  Spent all weekend moving and
painting, so my mind's a little shot.

What I meant to say is that CFEclipse is not an Adobe controlled
product.  It's managed by people outside Adobe, and while they do back
it, they're not in the drivers seat.  Flex, on the other hand, is an
Adobe product, and open source or not, Adobe is still in charge of
what Flex 2.5 (or whatever is next) is.

Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for all your hard work on CFE!
It's still got it's bumps, but it's rockin'.

cheers,
barneyb

On 5/6/07, Mark Drew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What do you mean un-backed?
>
> CFEclipse has the backing from Adobe. It isnt going anywhere.
>
> you could say the same about Flex since the sdk is being open sourced.
>
> *holds tongue as I might just start insulting people from now on*
>
> On 5/7/07, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Adobe has made a significant investment in the Eclipse platform for
> > their development tools, however, and FlexBuilder is both an official
> > Adobe product and Eclipse-based.  It seems pretty obvious that that's
> > the way of the future for Adobe.  I'd be shocked if Photoshop was ever
> > an Eclipse-based product, but where you're not the giant already, but
> > can stand on the shoulders of giants...
> >
> > Like it or not, Eclipse is a powerhouse in the tool arena (at least
> > outside the sphere of Microsoft), and more and more offerings
> > (commercial or otherwise) are leveraging that platform.  If you're
> > doing Java-related development (as ColdFusion is), the base tooling is
> > even more powerful.  For example, if you're willing to do the Java->CF
> > reverse translation (which is reasonably straightforward), and willing
> > to use infinite loops instead of breakpoint callouts, you can use the
> > stock Eclipse JDT for debugging CF applications.  Tacking on those two
> > relatively trivial aspects of debugging to the existing Java debugging
> > tooling in Eclipse sure seems like a no brainer compared to writing a
> > debugger from scratch on the DW platform.
> >
> > Which isn't to say that I'm blind to the fact that they're alienating
> > users of DW (their own product!) for those using Eclipse (probably
> > with CFEclipse - an unbacked open source product - though FlexBuilder
> > is Eclipse based and an official Adobe product), but without knowing
> > what goes on behind closed doors, it seems like they've made a good
> > decision.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 5/6/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for people
who
> > > don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development environment. It's
not as
> > > if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.
> > >
> > --
> > Barney Boisvert
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.barneyb.com/
> >
> > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> >
> >
>
> 



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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-07 Thread Barney Boisvert
I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear.  Spent all weekend moving and
painting, so my mind's a little shot.

What I meant to say is that CFEclipse is not an Adobe controlled
product.  It's managed by people outside Adobe, and while they do back
it, they're not in the drivers seat.  Flex, on the other hand, is an
Adobe product, and open source or not, Adobe is still in charge of
what Flex 2.5 (or whatever is next) is.

Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for all your hard work on CFE!
It's still got it's bumps, but it's rockin'.

cheers,
barneyb

On 5/6/07, Mark Drew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What do you mean un-backed?
>
> CFEclipse has the backing from Adobe. It isnt going anywhere.
>
> you could say the same about Flex since the sdk is being open sourced.
>
> *holds tongue as I might just start insulting people from now on*
>
> On 5/7/07, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Adobe has made a significant investment in the Eclipse platform for
> > their development tools, however, and FlexBuilder is both an official
> > Adobe product and Eclipse-based.  It seems pretty obvious that that's
> > the way of the future for Adobe.  I'd be shocked if Photoshop was ever
> > an Eclipse-based product, but where you're not the giant already, but
> > can stand on the shoulders of giants...
> >
> > Like it or not, Eclipse is a powerhouse in the tool arena (at least
> > outside the sphere of Microsoft), and more and more offerings
> > (commercial or otherwise) are leveraging that platform.  If you're
> > doing Java-related development (as ColdFusion is), the base tooling is
> > even more powerful.  For example, if you're willing to do the Java->CF
> > reverse translation (which is reasonably straightforward), and willing
> > to use infinite loops instead of breakpoint callouts, you can use the
> > stock Eclipse JDT for debugging CF applications.  Tacking on those two
> > relatively trivial aspects of debugging to the existing Java debugging
> > tooling in Eclipse sure seems like a no brainer compared to writing a
> > debugger from scratch on the DW platform.
> >
> > Which isn't to say that I'm blind to the fact that they're alienating
> > users of DW (their own product!) for those using Eclipse (probably
> > with CFEclipse - an unbacked open source product - though FlexBuilder
> > is Eclipse based and an official Adobe product), but without knowing
> > what goes on behind closed doors, it seems like they've made a good
> > decision.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 5/6/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for people who
> > > don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development environment. It's not as
> > > if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.
> > >
> > --
> > Barney Boisvert
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.barneyb.com/
> >
> > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> >
> >
>
> 

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RE: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-06 Thread Dave Watts
> While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for 
> people who don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development 
> environment. It's not as if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.

I suspect that Adobe might provide an AJAX/CF wizard for Dreamweaver, just
like they've plugged Spry functionality into DW9 already. Debugging might be
a little harder, though.

But anyway, Adobe has made a pretty big commitment to Eclipse. You're
probably already familiar with FlexBuilder, but Eclipse is also the platform
to be used with the new LiveCycle ES programming tools, replacing the
various things they'd built in-house (and working exponentially better,
also!) LiveCycle Designer, the forms builder provided with Acrobat
Professional, will be available as an Eclipse plugin!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net


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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-06 Thread Mark Drew
What do you mean un-backed?

CFEclipse has the backing from Adobe. It isnt going anywhere.

you could say the same about Flex since the sdk is being open sourced.

*holds tongue as I might just start insulting people from now on*

On 5/7/07, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Adobe has made a significant investment in the Eclipse platform for
> their development tools, however, and FlexBuilder is both an official
> Adobe product and Eclipse-based.  It seems pretty obvious that that's
> the way of the future for Adobe.  I'd be shocked if Photoshop was ever
> an Eclipse-based product, but where you're not the giant already, but
> can stand on the shoulders of giants...
>
> Like it or not, Eclipse is a powerhouse in the tool arena (at least
> outside the sphere of Microsoft), and more and more offerings
> (commercial or otherwise) are leveraging that platform.  If you're
> doing Java-related development (as ColdFusion is), the base tooling is
> even more powerful.  For example, if you're willing to do the Java->CF
> reverse translation (which is reasonably straightforward), and willing
> to use infinite loops instead of breakpoint callouts, you can use the
> stock Eclipse JDT for debugging CF applications.  Tacking on those two
> relatively trivial aspects of debugging to the existing Java debugging
> tooling in Eclipse sure seems like a no brainer compared to writing a
> debugger from scratch on the DW platform.
>
> Which isn't to say that I'm blind to the fact that they're alienating
> users of DW (their own product!) for those using Eclipse (probably
> with CFEclipse - an unbacked open source product - though FlexBuilder
> is Eclipse based and an official Adobe product), but without knowing
> what goes on behind closed doors, it seems like they've made a good
> decision.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>
> On 5/6/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for people who
> > don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development environment. It's not as
> > if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.
> >
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.barneyb.com/
>
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
>
> 

~|
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Upgrade to MX7 & experience time-saving features, more productivity.
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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-06 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
I suppose that is the nature of the beast.  ColdFusion development was only
wedged into DW post-MM takeover and it is aimed at a different kind of
developer than Eclipse has.  While a lot of experienced developers use DW
for whatever reason, I would say most use Eclipse and it's a logical
decision for Adobe to target that audience - it also no doubt shows how DW
has been selling in this arena.DW is a visual tool - it is not a serious
development IDE for anything other than HTML/CSS (even "coder" view is just
an homage (which was added by request) to a better IDE for development)







"This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
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Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
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our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions." 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Andy Matthews
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Mon May 07 04:43:46 2007
Subject: RE: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for people who
don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development environment. It's not as
if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.

-Original Message-
From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:01 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

For those not following MXNA or the Goog, Ben has announced two new features
for CF8:

First is an AJAX Wizard for Eclipse:

http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2007/5/6/Ben-announces-ColdFusion-AJAX
-Wizard-for-Eclipse

Secondly is a CF debugger for Eclipse:

http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2007/5/6/Ben-announces-ColdFusion-Debu
gger-for-Eclipse

A third one is coming up soon...

--
===
Raymond Camden

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : ray.camdenfamily.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Video game player? Have kids? Check out KidGamers.org





~|
ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe®
Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. 
Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV

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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-06 Thread Barney Boisvert
Adobe has made a significant investment in the Eclipse platform for
their development tools, however, and FlexBuilder is both an official
Adobe product and Eclipse-based.  It seems pretty obvious that that's
the way of the future for Adobe.  I'd be shocked if Photoshop was ever
an Eclipse-based product, but where you're not the giant already, but
can stand on the shoulders of giants...

Like it or not, Eclipse is a powerhouse in the tool arena (at least
outside the sphere of Microsoft), and more and more offerings
(commercial or otherwise) are leveraging that platform.  If you're
doing Java-related development (as ColdFusion is), the base tooling is
even more powerful.  For example, if you're willing to do the Java->CF
reverse translation (which is reasonably straightforward), and willing
to use infinite loops instead of breakpoint callouts, you can use the
stock Eclipse JDT for debugging CF applications.  Tacking on those two
relatively trivial aspects of debugging to the existing Java debugging
tooling in Eclipse sure seems like a no brainer compared to writing a
debugger from scratch on the DW platform.

Which isn't to say that I'm blind to the fact that they're alienating
users of DW (their own product!) for those using Eclipse (probably
with CFEclipse - an unbacked open source product - though FlexBuilder
is Eclipse based and an official Adobe product), but without knowing
what goes on behind closed doors, it seems like they've made a good
decision.

cheers,
barneyb

On 5/6/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for people who
> don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development environment. It's not as
> if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.
>
-- 
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

~|
Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 & 
Flex 2
Free Trial 
http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU

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RE: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-06 Thread Andy Matthews
While I personally use Eclipse, that's sort of a raw deal for people who
don't like Eclipse, or prefer another development environment. It's not as
if Eclipse is an official Adobe product.

-Original Message-
From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:01 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

For those not following MXNA or the Goog, Ben has announced two new features
for CF8:

First is an AJAX Wizard for Eclipse:

http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2007/5/6/Ben-announces-ColdFusion-AJAX
-Wizard-for-Eclipse

Secondly is a CF debugger for Eclipse:

http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2007/5/6/Ben-announces-ColdFusion-Debu
gger-for-Eclipse

A third one is coming up soon...

--
===
Raymond Camden

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : ray.camdenfamily.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Video game player? Have kids? Check out KidGamers.org



~|
ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe®
Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. 
Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV

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Re: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

2007-05-06 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
Debugging! Hallelujah!!!




"This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
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information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
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-Original Message-
From: Raymond Camden
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sun May 06 18:00:32 2007
Subject: Announcements from Ben at cfObjective

For those not following MXNA or the Goog, Ben has announced two new
features for CF8:

First is an AJAX Wizard for Eclipse:

http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2007/5/6/Ben-announces-ColdFusion-AJAX
-Wizard-for-Eclipse

Secondly is a CF debugger for Eclipse:

http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2007/5/6/Ben-announces-ColdFusion-Debu
gger-for-Eclipse

A third one is coming up soon...

-- 
===
Raymond Camden

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : ray.camdenfamily.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Video game player? Have kids? Check out KidGamers.org



~|
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