Re: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
Adam, Point taken. But would why bother including a component which is flawed in two pretty fundamental ways? If this was a problem with an open source platform (say, PHP which by the way has several flawless POP3 implementations), I wouldn't be upset. I would politely request that it be fixed, and I would be able to obtain a bleeding edge patch to help test. But I chose CF for all the good things it offers. RAD being the main one. But why should I pay the (expensive) license fees for buggy software? Yes, it is buggy: there is no other way to describe it. Suddenly that "RAD" feature goes out the window while I dick around trying to come up with a disgusting, inelegant kludge. Do you release buggy, substandard software to your clients? Yes, software will always have bugs. But when they are present in development tools, its tenfold more frustrating. Anyway, the organisation I work for has a pretty good relationship with MS. I hope the substantial resources of MM can get bugs these fixed for me and all the other CF users out there. Regards, Jono > Sometimes your chosen platform cannot do what you think it should be > able to do. You are then forced to write code to get it to do what you > want. We call this programing. ~| Logware: a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191644 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:15:10 +1000, Jon Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I understand; if they would compile and run on Linux, I would be using > them in a flash. These MM bugs are seriously holding up our > development. Sometimes your chosen platform cannot do what you think it should be able to do. You are then forced to write code to get it to do what you want. We call this programing. Rock on. -Adam ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191626 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
> Unfortunately, this is the case. Feel like writing a Java implementation? :) > I'm sure there are plenty of public-domain POP classes out there already. Can you say "no utf-7 support"? With Sun not supporting unicode utf-7 it seems to me that it's a poor choice for writing any sort of e-mail client until the utf-7 encoding dies out... This I suspect will take a long time... > OK, just to be clear, there is the "Date" header which is set by the sending > client. Then there are the "Received" headers which there is one of for each > "hop" that the mail takes. For instance, your message has 5: Yes this is correct. Received headers are added by the SMTP servers that relay the mail and as such their dates should be reliable. The DATE header however is set by the client and should be the sent DateTime but invariably thanks to spammers is usually hours, days or even years away from what would be considered an accurate datetime value... Also some mail clients don't format the date field correctly which is inexcusable As you saw with the headers you pasted, after accounting for timezones, the date time values are all within 6 minutes of each other. Allowing for server load and mail delays, the times are what you would expect with regards to normal e-mail delivery. > Yes, the original emails are deleted. But I then send a few more test ones, > and they are all fetched with the "date" column being set to the time I > last fetched/deleted. This would be the date field so it should report the date/time that you SENT your mails. If you sent them just after you deleted the other mails then this sounds about right... >> The POP3 daemon will only be responsible for adding a date to the >> received header of your mail. If you check using a telnet session to >> your POP account, you will see that the first received header you see >> will be the one that was added to the mail by your SMTP service. > > Is this the "date" header or the "received" header? This is the received header. > I understand; if they would compile and run on Linux, I would be using > them in a flash. These MM bugs are seriously holding up our development. You know much about Kylix??? They *should* port with some work to them and a port of the CFXAPI header to Kylix... Unfortunately, I don't have the time at the moment... :( Paul ~| Logware: a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191617 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
Hi Paul, Thanks for your input. > As you've already stated, you can't use CFX_POP3 so unless you can find a > Java based replacement for CFPOP you aren't going to be able to do much to > improve the state of your issues. Unfortunately, this is the case. Feel like writing a Java implementation? :) I'm sure there are plenty of public-domain POP classes out there already. > Identifying the content-type of each attachment would mean extra > functionality in CFPOP that just isn't there. It needs a column in its > results that matches the attachmentfiles in approach and for every > attachment, it should provide the content type. Yes, and this of course would make sense. > POP dates can't be trusted in the headers at all as they are set by the > Client application at the point of send. I regularly see junk dates. If > however there is a difference between CFPOP and other mail clients then that > is a problem. OK, just to be clear, there is the "Date" header which is set by the sending client. Then there are the "Recieved" headers which there is one of for each "hop" that the mail takes. For instance, your message has 5: Received: by 10.54.3.22 with SMTP id 22cs4099wrc; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.29.4 with SMTP id c4mr370458wrc; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from houseoffusion.com (houseoffusion.com [64.118.64.245]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 43si210052wri.2005.01.24.00.44.12; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com: domain of listmaster@houseoffusion.com designates 64.118.64.245 as permitted sender) Received: from LOCALHOST by LOCALHOST with ESMTP id 299154C824E719429891DCDF31C95694 Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:38:57 -0500 > Hmmm... But you said the original mails were deleted. Have you tried looking > at the headers using a telnet session to your server and deciphering the > date field yourself as a double check. Yes, the original emails are deleted. But I then send a few more test ones, and they are all fetched with the "date" column being set to the time I last fetched/deleted. > It is parsed, you just can't trust it. - see above. Dang. > The POP3 daemon will only be responsible for adding a date to the received > header of your mail. If you check using a telnet session to your POP > account, you will see that the first received header you see will be the one > that was added to the mail by your SMTP service. Is this the "date" header or the "recieved" header? > > Is there a way to access the raw message source so I can at least > > parse it out myself? > > Not with CFPOP. You could emulate a POP client using some sort of socket > plugin for CF effectively emulating a telnet connection over port 110. Not interested; CF is not excatly an ideal protocol handler. > From my experience, CFFTP and CFHTTP although flaky in previous versions are > pretty robust in CFMX 6.0 and above CFMX6.1 updater for us is rock solid. Yeah, I'm just on a rant. :) > Ok, I won't tell you to use my tags :). Unless you wan't to write something > yourself. You are hosed on a Unix box :( Seriously though, if you need any > help with doing something like that, I'll try to help where I can. I've at > least got a heap load of experience with CF and POP3 that I can offer. I understand; if they would compile and run on Linux, I would be using them in a flash. These MM bugs are seriously holding up our development. > I agree this is another issue with CFPOP, CID fields could also be passed > back to the query in a similar fashion to attachmentfiles but they aren't > which is a shame. We have a bug open with MM on this, but I don't think we will even see it fixed in Blackstone. Thanks for your input. ~| Logware: a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191613 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
Hi Paul, Thanks for your input. > As you've already stated, you can't use CFX_POP3 so unless you can find a > Java based replacement for CFPOP you aren't going to be able to do much to > improve the state of your issues. Unfortunately, this is the case. Feel like writing a Java implementation? :) I'm sure there are plenty of public-domain POP classes out there already. > Identifying the content-type of each attachment would mean extra > functionality in CFPOP that just isn't there. It needs a column in its > results that matches the attachmentfiles in approach and for every > attachment, it should provide the content type. Yes, and this of course would make sense. > Moving onto your other questions > > > 1. My POP account receives several emails. Fetching them with CF, the > > DATE column of the returned CFPOP query are all the same, for example > > 01/01/2000 10:10:10. The action is "getHeaderOnly". > > POP dates can't be trusted in the headers at all as they are set by the > Client application at the point of send. I regularly see junk dates. If > however there is a difference between CFPOP and other mail clients then that > is a problem. OK, just to be clear, there is the "Date" header which is set by the sending client. Then there are the "Received" headers which there is one of for each "hop" that the mail takes. For instance, your message has 5: Received: by 10.54.3.22 with SMTP id 22cs4099wrc; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.29.4 with SMTP id c4mr370458wrc; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from houseoffusion.com (houseoffusion.com [64.118.64.245]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 43si210052wri.2005.01.24.00.44.12; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com: domain of listmaster@houseoffusion.com designates 64.118.64.245 as permitted sender) Received: from LOCALHOST by LOCALHOST with ESMTP id 299154C824E719429891DCDF31C95694 Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:38:57 -0500 > Sometimes, it depends on how robust the POP client is at handling > incorrectly formatted Date fields as to how good the date looks when its > returned... > > > 2. I fetch the emails using a regular POP3 client (Thunderbird 1.0 in > > this case), they display the correct date. This client is set to > > "delete" as they are downloaded. > > > > 3. I then send some more emails to my POP account and fetch them using > > CF. The DATE column is essentially "refreshed" to the time that > > Thunderbird fetched/deleted the emails. > Hmmm... But you said the original mails were deleted. Have you tried looking > at the headers using a telnet session to your server and deciphering the > date field yourself as a double check. Yes, the original emails are deleted. But I then send a few more test ones, and they are all fetched with the "date" column being set to the time I last fetched/deleted. > > If I switch off the "delete after download" option in Thunderbird, the > > date/time is not refreshed. > > > > This leads me to the conclusion that the DATE column in the query > > returned by CFPOP IS NOT parsed from the date header of the email > > message. > > > > It is parsed, you just can't trust it. - see above. Dang. > > > > Is it just me, or is this behaviour incredibly stupid? Is my POP3 > > daemon (courier pop3d MySQL enabled) broken? Yes, my system time is > > correct: synchronized with two stratum 1 NTP servers. > > The POP3 daemon will only be responsible for adding a date to the received > header of your mail. If you check using a telnet session to your POP > account, you will see that the first received header you see will be the one > that was added to the mail by your SMTP service. Is this the "date" header or the "received" header? > > Is there a way to access the raw message source so I can at least > > parse it out myself? > > Not with CFPOP. You could emulate a POP client using some sort of socket > plugin for CF effectively emulating a telnet connection over port 110. Not interested; CF is not exactly an ideal protocol handler. > > Is this wrong, or am I just crazy. What the frig is the point of > > having a half-assed poorly implemented POP3 client? God help me when I > > need to start using CFFTP or CFHTTP. > > From my experience, CFFTP and CFHTTP although flaky in previous versions are > pretty robust in CFMX 6.0 and above CFMX6.1 updater for us is rock solid. Yeah, I'm just on a rant. :) > > And no, don't tell me to use CFX_POP or something else, because a) the > > Macromedia implementation should work and b) I'm hosted on a Unix > > environment. > > Ok, I won't tell you to use my tags :). Unless you wan't to write something > yourself. You are hosed on a Unix box :( Seriously though, if you need any > help with doing something like that, I'll try to help where I can. I've at > least got a heap load of experience with CF and POP3 that I can offer. I understand; if they would compile a
Re: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
Hi Paul, Thanks for your input. > As you've already stated, you can't use CFX_POP3 so unless you can find a > Java based replacement for CFPOP you aren't going to be able to do much to > improve the state of your issues. Unfortunately, this is the case. Feel like writing a Java implementation? :) I'm sure there are plenty of public-domain POP classes out there already. > Identifying the content-type of each attachment would mean extra > functionality in CFPOP that just isn't there. It needs a column in its > results that matches the attachmentfiles in approach and for every > attachment, it should provide the content type. Yes, and this of course would make sense. > Moving onto your other questions > > > 1. My POP account receives several emails. Fetching them with CF, the > > DATE column of the returned CFPOP query are all the same, for example > > 01/01/2000 10:10:10. The action is "getHeaderOnly". > > POP dates can't be trusted in the headers at all as they are set by the > Client application at the point of send. I regularly see junk dates. If > however there is a difference between CFPOP and other mail clients then that > is a problem. OK, just to be clear, there is the "Date" header which is set by the sending client. Then there are the "Recieved" headers which there is one of for each "hop" that the mail takes. For instance, your message has 5: Received: by 10.54.3.22 with SMTP id 22cs4099wrc; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.29.4 with SMTP id c4mr370458wrc; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from houseoffusion.com (houseoffusion.com [64.118.64.245]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 43si210052wri.2005.01.24.00.44.12; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com: domain of listmaster@houseoffusion.com designates 64.118.64.245 as permitted sender) Received: from LOCALHOST by LOCALHOST with ESMTP id 299154C824E719429891DCDF31C95694 Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:38:57 -0500 > Sometimes, it depends on how robust the POP client is at handling > incorrectly formatted Date fields as to how good the date looks when its > returned... > > > 2. I fetch the emails using a regular POP3 client (Thunderbird 1.0 in > > this case), they display the correct date. This client is set to > > "delete" as they are downloaded. > > > > 3. I then send some more emails to my POP account and fetch them using > > CF. The DATE column is essentially "refreshed" to the time that > > Thunderbird fetched/deleted the emails. > Hmmm... But you said the original mails were deleted. Have you tried looking > at the headers using a telnet session to your server and deciphering the > date field yourself as a double check. Yes, the original emails are deleted. But I then send a few more test ones, and they are all fetched with the "date" column being set to the time I last fetched/deleted. > > If I switch off the "delete after download" option in Thunderbird, the > > date/time is not refreshed. > > > > This leads me to the conclusion that the DATE column in the query > > returned by CFPOP IS NOT parsed from the date header of the email > > message. > > > > It is parsed, you just can't trust it. - see above. Dang. > > > > Is it just me, or is this behaviour incredibly stupid? Is my POP3 > > daemon (courier pop3d MySQL enabled) broken? Yes, my system time is > > correct: synchronized with two stratum 1 NTP servers. > > The POP3 daemon will only be responsible for adding a date to the received > header of your mail. If you check using a telnet session to your POP > account, you will see that the first received header you see will be the one > that was added to the mail by your SMTP service. Is this the "date" header or the "recieved" header? > > Is there a way to access the raw message source so I can at least > > parse it out myself? > > Not with CFPOP. You could emulate a POP client using some sort of socket > plugin for CF effectively emulating a telnet connection over port 110. Not interested; CF is not excatly an ideal protocol handler. > > Is this wrong, or am I just crazy. What the frig is the point of > > having a half-assed poorly implemented POP3 client? God help me when I > > need to start using CFFTP or CFHTTP. > > From my experience, CFFTP and CFHTTP although flaky in previous versions are > pretty robust in CFMX 6.0 and above CFMX6.1 updater for us is rock solid. Yeah, I'm just on a rant. :) > > And no, don't tell me to use CFX_POP or something else, because a) the > > Macromedia implementation should work and b) I'm hosted on a Unix > > environment. > > Ok, I won't tell you to use my tags :). Unless you wan't to write something > yourself. You are hosed on a Unix box :( Seriously though, if you need any > help with doing something like that, I'll try to help where I can. I've at > least got a heap load of experience with CF and POP3 that I can offer. I understand; if they would compile a
RE: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
Jon, As you've already stated, you can't use CFX_POP3 so unless you can find a Java based replacement for CFPOP you aren't going to be able to do much to improve the state of your issues. Identifying the content-type of each attachment would mean extra functionality in CFPOP that just isn't there. It needs a column in its results that matches the attachmentfiles in approach and for every attachment, it should provide the content type. Moving onto your other questions > 1. My POP account receives several emails. Fetching them with CF, the > DATE column of the returned CFPOP query are all the same, for example > 01/01/2000 10:10:10. The action is "getHeaderOnly". POP dates can't be trusted in the headers at all as they are set by the Client application at the point of send. I regularly see junk dates. If however there is a difference between CFPOP and other mail clients then that is a problem. Sometimes, it depends on how robust the POP client is at handling incorrectly formatted Date fields as to how good the date looks when its returned... > 2. I fetch the emails using a regular POP3 client (Thunderbird 1.0 in > this case), they display the correct date. This client is set to > "delete" as they are downloaded. > > 3. I then send some more emails to my POP account and fetch them using > CF. The DATE column is essentially "refreshed" to the time that > Thunderbird fetched/deleted the emails. Hmmm... But you said the original mails were deleted. Have you tried looking at the headers using a telnet session to your server and deciphering the date field yourself as a double check. > If I switch off the "delete after download" option in Thunderbird, the > date/time is not refreshed. > > This leads me to the conclusion that the DATE column in the query > returned by CFPOP IS NOT parsed from the date header of the email > message. > It is parsed, you just can't trust it. - see above. > > Is it just me, or is this behaviour incredibly stupid? Is my POP3 > daemon (courier pop3d MySQL enabled) broken? Yes, my system time is > correct: synchronized with two stratum 1 NTP servers. The POP3 daemon will only be responsible for adding a date to the received header of your mail. If you check using a telnet session to your POP account, you will see that the first received header you see will be the one that was added to the mail by your SMTP service. > Is there a way to access the raw message source so I can at least > parse it out myself? Not with CFPOP. You could emulate a POP client using some sort of socket plugin for CF effectively emulating a telnet connection over port 110. > Is this wrong, or am I just crazy. What the frig is the point of > having a half-assed poorly implemented POP3 client? God help me when I > need to start using CFFTP or CFHTTP. >From my experience, CFFTP and CFHTTP although flaky in previous versions are pretty robust in CFMX 6.0 and above CFMX6.1 updater for us is rock solid. > And no, don't tell me to use CFX_POP or something else, because a) the > Macromedia implementation should work and b) I'm hosted on a Unix > environment. Ok, I won't tell you to use my tags :). Unless you wan't to write something yourself. You are hosed on a Unix box :( Seriously though, if you need any help with doing something like that, I'll try to help where I can. I've at least got a heap load of experience with CF and POP3 that I can offer. > Don't even get me started on the broken inline image CID munging issue in CFPOP. I agree this is another issue with CFPOP, CID fields could also be passed back to the query in a similar fashion to attachmentfiles but they aren't which is a shame. Paul ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191519 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: CFPOP - returned timestamps GRR!
Further to my CFPOP frustrations, does anyone know of a way to determine the MIME type of the attachments? This is a bug I need to close from awhile ago, and last time I looked at it, you can't. Regards, Jon On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:20:42 +1000, Jon Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > This is somewhat of a complex issue. The scenario works as follows: > > 1. My POP account receives several emails. Fetching them with CF, the > DATE column of the returned CFPOP query are all the same, for example > 01/01/2000 10:10:10. The action is "getHeaderOnly". > > 2. I fetch the emails using a regular POP3 client (Thunderbird 1.0 in > this case), they display the correct date. This client is set to > "delete" as they are downloaded. > > 3. I then send some more emails to my POP account and fetch them using > CF. The DATE column is essentially "refreshed" to the time that > Thunderbird fetched/deleted the emails. > > If I switch off the "delete after download" option in Thunderbird, the > date/time is not refreshed. > > This leads me to the conclusion that the DATE column in the query > returned by CFPOP IS NOT parsed from the date header of the email > message. > > > > Is it just me, or is this behaviour incredibly stupid? Is my POP3 > daemon (courier pop3d MySQL enabled) broken? Yes, my system time is > correct: synchronized with two stratum 1 NTP servers. > > Is there a way to access the raw message source so I can at least > parse it out myself? > > Is this wrong, or am I just crazy. What the frig is the point of > having a half-assed poorly implemented POP3 client? God help me when I > need to start using CFFTP or CFHTTP. > > And no, don't tell me to use CFX_POP or something else, because a) the > Macromedia implementation should work and b) I'm hosted on a Unix > environment. > > Don't even get me started on the broken inline image CID munging issue in > CFPOP. > > > > Frustratingly yours, > > Jono > ~| Logware: a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191515 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
