Re: Errant Web-inf directories
Any chance you could qualify your claims that re-compiling is faster than reading from the cached .class (even if there are 20k files in the folder). Even with a small cfm/function i'd be VERY suprised if this is the case. Perhaps you could enlighten me? D What's in those other WEB-INF directories? I suspect they don't contain the entire contents of the original WEB-INF directory. Well, in one example, there are 19,195 .class files. Not as many as are in the root web-inf, no. But, a sizable amount. Is that all that's in there, compiled classes? Is that all that's in your original one? And, that's a lot of class files. You should probably disable the option to save class files in CF Administrator. In your environment, it's likely to take longer to find one file out of twenty thousand in a single directory, than to just recompile the source. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278587 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Errant Web-inf directories
From Brandon Purcell's blog http://www.bpurcell.org/blog/index.cfm?mode=entryentry=1031 On 18/05/07, David Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any chance you could qualify your claims that re-compiling is faster than reading from the cached .class (even if there are 20k files in the folder). Even with a small cfm/function i'd be VERY suprised if this is the case. Perhaps you could enlighten me? D What's in those other WEB-INF directories? I suspect they don't contain the entire contents of the original WEB-INF directory. Well, in one example, there are 19,195 .class files. Not as many as are in the root web-inf, no. But, a sizable amount. Is that all that's in there, compiled classes? Is that all that's in your original one? And, that's a lot of class files. You should probably disable the option to save class files in CF Administrator. In your environment, it's likely to take longer to find one file out of twenty thousand in a single directory, than to just recompile the source. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278622 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Errant Web-inf directories
This is most interesting. I would like to run a test of some sort, but I'm not sure how I would measure it. 10,000 files is a lot for a file system, but would be small beans in a database table. I wonder if there is any kind of indexing CF could do to reduce the table scan affect of looking for the right file. I've never analyzed class file before, but I would assume the name of each file is unique given the path and filename of the unparsed CFML file it represents. You would think a request for a specific file name would only take a couple milliseconds for the OS to examine the file allocation tables and determine its existence. It would be like selecting a record from a huge table based on the primary key. But then again, I can't really claim to understand how this all works, this is just the way that would seem to make sense to me. ~Brad -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Errant Web-inf directories Any chance you could qualify your claims that re-compiling is faster than reading from the cached .class (even if there are 20k files in the folder). Even with a small cfm/function i'd be VERY suprised if this is the case. Perhaps you could enlighten me? Other than telling you to try it for yourself and see, I can only say that this has been my experience. Obviously, the speed of the disk and other hardware, the specific filesystem being used, etc, will all affect this. In my experience, any CF server with over 10k of compiled classes is almost certainly going to be faster if you disable that option. I've seen some with many, many more files than that where the difference was obviously noticeable without any formal testing. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278627 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Errant Web-inf directories
Any chance you could qualify your claims that re-compiling is faster than reading from the cached .class (even if there are 20k files in the folder). Even with a small cfm/function i'd be VERY suprised if this is the case. Perhaps you could enlighten me? Other than telling you to try it for yourself and see, I can only say that this has been my experience. Obviously, the speed of the disk and other hardware, the specific filesystem being used, etc, will all affect this. In my experience, any CF server with over 10k of compiled classes is almost certainly going to be faster if you disable that option. I've seen some with many, many more files than that where the difference was obviously noticeable without any formal testing. The problem is that all the files are in a single directory, I think. If they were separated using a hierarchy of directories, seek time would be much faster (but presumably write time would be slower, since CF would have to figure out which directory to put them in, create the directory in its absence, etc. I'm not the only one who's observed this, apparently: http://www.bpurcell.org/blog/index.cfm?mode=entryentry=1031 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278625 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Errant Web-inf directories
10,000 files is a lot for a file system ... Not really. Ten thousand files in the same directory, however, is. And that's the problem, I think. Filesystems use directory information to find files quickly. Conceivably, CF could be changed to store class files in some sort of directory structure - instead of them all being in cfclasses, they could be in cfclasses\[something]. The problem then, though, would be that CF wouldn't have any way to find them without recursing through directories, unless the directory structure could be inferred from the request itself (perhaps mirroring the directory structure of the source code). Also, there would be a cost involved in creating these directories, presumably. Honestly, I don't know if that's a viable solution, but I do think it would solve the specific problem of how long it takes to retrieve compiled classes. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278629 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Errant Web-inf directories
On 5/18/07, Dave Watts wrote: 10,000 files is a lot for a file system ... Not really. Ten thousand files in the same directory, however, is. And that's the problem, I think. Filesystems use directory information to find files quickly. Well, since our main web-inf directory has 114,254 files, I think we're probably a prime candidate for turning it off, eh? (Don't shoot me, I'm not the server admin.) (And, yes, I've been advocating for multiple CF instances. But so far, no go.) -d ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278632 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Errant Web-inf directories
So, we have a single instance of CF 6.1 installed on linux (no clustering). However, we have multiple instances of the web-inf/* directories. The server admin's don't know where they came from, or what to do about them. They seem to be in subdomains or virtual servers, but they're not consistently so. Their first approach was to remove one, which was followed by a lovely server crash (which may or may not be related as we're also having Oracle connectivity issues). What's in those other WEB-INF directories? I suspect they don't contain the entire contents of the original WEB-INF directory. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278470 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Errant Web-inf directories
On 5/17/07, Dave Watts wrote: What's in those other WEB-INF directories? I suspect they don't contain the entire contents of the original WEB-INF directory. Well, in one example, there are 19,195 .class files. Not as many as are in the root web-inf, no. But, a sizable amount. ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278501 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Errant Web-inf directories
What's in those other WEB-INF directories? I suspect they don't contain the entire contents of the original WEB-INF directory. Well, in one example, there are 19,195 .class files. Not as many as are in the root web-inf, no. But, a sizable amount. Is that all that's in there, compiled classes? Is that all that's in your original one? And, that's a lot of class files. You should probably disable the option to save class files in CF Administrator. In your environment, it's likely to take longer to find one file out of twenty thousand in a single directory, than to just recompile the source. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278551 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
