RE: Idea for better hosting
some semi-ignorant questions from me: Here the really bad sites would hit each server 1/3 as hard What if I uploaded an infinite loop? wouldnt that still kill all three servers in turn? Does anyone know if setting the isolation to high in IIS will have any effect on the performance / memory of CF sites on a shared box? I guess IIS cant control the JVM, so no? -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2005 22:09 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting Emmett, Some simple math where we're adding $ instead of things that arent addeable quantities like Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable (WTF?). Consider x amount of sites that get y amount of hits and 3 servers to host. If youre a hosting company, you would split them across 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses. Or, as I was suggesting, you have them all on 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses and a load balancer. Here the really bad sites would hit each server 1/3 as hard because they are load balanced and you wouldnt get the possibility of randomly getting half of them on one server. So, the jrun error may not appear as often or very much at all and you'd generally have happier customers. I'm thinking that if this company http://powweb.com can do linux hosting like this for less than 8 dollars a month then that load balancer and the extra admin that you consider bizzare are probably quite acceptable costs. DRE On 9/29/05, Emmet McGovern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope I don't offend you but... We were talking about Coldfusion clustering. Take away Coldfusion and you can definitely find clustered hosting. And since were talking shared environments were also talking about affordable hosting. Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable = Bizarre Dream World. -E -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting thought of this. So I searched for load balanced hosting and found 588000 results. Oops emmett, this bizzare dreamworld seems to occur in your world. ... . DRE On 9/29/05, DRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219738 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Idea for better hosting
Kerry, Thats a rather extreme case but you would be slightly better off with the load ballanced scheme. You'd have to set it off once on each balanced server in very rapid succession to kill them all at the same time as opposed to just once on the single server. Its vaguely likely but not guaranteed that you'd get a new server each time depending on how the load balancing doles out the requests so you might have to set it off 5 times to get each server in a cluster of 3. DRE On 9/30/05, Kerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: some semi-ignorant questions from me: Here the really bad sites would hit each server 1/3 as hard What if I uploaded an infinite loop? wouldnt that still kill all three servers in turn? Does anyone know if setting the isolation to high in IIS will have any effect on the performance / memory of CF sites on a shared box? I guess IIS cant control the JVM, so no? -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2005 22:09 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting Emmett, Some simple math where we're adding $ instead of things that arent addeable quantities like Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable (WTF?). Consider x amount of sites that get y amount of hits and 3 servers to host. If youre a hosting company, you would split them across 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses. Or, as I was suggesting, you have them all on 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses and a load balancer. Here the really bad sites would hit each server 1/3 as hard because they are load balanced and you wouldnt get the possibility of randomly getting half of them on one server. So, the jrun error may not appear as often or very much at all and you'd generally have happier customers. I'm thinking that if this company http://powweb.com can do linux hosting like this for less than 8 dollars a month then that load balancer and the extra admin that you consider bizzare are probably quite acceptable costs. DRE On 9/29/05, Emmet McGovern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope I don't offend you but... We were talking about Coldfusion clustering. Take away Coldfusion and you can definitely find clustered hosting. And since were talking shared environments were also talking about affordable hosting. Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable = Bizarre Dream World. -E -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting thought of this. So I searched for load balanced hosting and found 588000 results. Oops emmett, this bizzare dreamworld seems to occur in your world. ... . DRE On 9/29/05, DRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219766 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
What if I uploaded an infinite loop? wouldnt that still kill all three servers in turn? Probably, eventually. Does anyone know if setting the isolation to high in IIS will have any effect on the performance / memory of CF sites on a shared box? I guess IIS cant control the JVM, so no? No, the application isolation settings in IIS only affect the in-process DLL used to communicate with the CF server. The CF server itself is a separate process. ASP (and I think ASP.NET) applications run in-process within IIS, which is why this setting is needed in that sort of environment. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219814 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
Hi, can you run CFMX on Windows Server 2003, Web Edition i was told you cant, that it doesnt support it ? -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 12:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting The original post is set in some bizarre dream world. Clustering bad code just means bad code running on 3 servers. Let's look at the costs anyway. We'll cut corners when we can and look at sticky sessions on standard cf licenses too. ---WINDOWS--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition x3$2,997 CF Enterprise x3$17,997 --- TOTAL: $25,194 - $27,594 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Web Edition x3 $1,200 CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $9,297 - $11,697 ---LINUX--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Redhat Linux ES x3 $1,047 CF Enterprise x3$17,997 --- TOTAL: $23,244 - $25,644 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 FEDORA x3 $FREE CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $8,097 - $10,497 So you can budget for $8,097 - $27,594 With 400 clients at $15-$30 a month you get $6,000 - $12,000 a month. I'm frickin RICH BIATCH! Lease me a BMW! except... Now you need a way to load balance. Hardware - $3000-$1 Software NLB - $FREE Damn... Your rack is filling up fast. $1200-2000 per month per rack. Holy crap! We're out of room on the switch again. $600 File replication shut down again. Wheres Larry the tech? - $30-$80k salary $%#! CRC errors on the NLB!!! Where's Larry's brother Larry? $30-$80k yr Sally from Sallysellsseashells.com can't get her mail. Support - $24-$35 yr These expenses are killing us. Where's Rich the sales guy? - $24k base YAY!!! Were growing! We need to hire some more people. Shit. I just missed the lease payment on my BMW. DAMN YOU COLDFUSION Takin the bus to the office (if I could afford the office), Emmet ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219566 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
Yes you can. The Web Edition is a web server, thus the name. So it wont let you run certain other MS products such as SQL Server which require Windows 2003 Server std. But it cannot stop installing any 3rd party product. Russ -Original Message- From: Joel Nath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2005 08:45 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Hi, can you run CFMX on Windows Server 2003, Web Edition i was told you cant, that it doesnt support it ? -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 12:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting The original post is set in some bizarre dream world. Clustering bad code just means bad code running on 3 servers. Let's look at the costs anyway. We'll cut corners when we can and look at sticky sessions on standard cf licenses too. ---WINDOWS--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition x3$2,997 CF Enterprise x3$17,997 --- TOTAL: $25,194 - $27,594 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Web Edition x3 $1,200 CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $9,297 - $11,697 ---LINUX--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Redhat Linux ES x3 $1,047 CF Enterprise x3$17,997 --- TOTAL: $23,244 - $25,644 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 FEDORA x3 $FREE CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $8,097 - $10,497 So you can budget for $8,097 - $27,594 With 400 clients at $15-$30 a month you get $6,000 - $12,000 a month. I'm frickin RICH BIATCH! Lease me a BMW! except... Now you need a way to load balance. Hardware - $3000-$1 Software NLB - $FREE Damn... Your rack is filling up fast. $1200-2000 per month per rack. Holy crap! We're out of room on the switch again. $600 File replication shut down again. Wheres Larry the tech? - $30-$80k salary $%#! CRC errors on the NLB!!! Where's Larry's brother Larry? $30-$80k yr Sally from Sallysellsseashells.com can't get her mail. Support - $24-$35 yr These expenses are killing us. Where's Rich the sales guy? - $24k base YAY!!! Were growing! We need to hire some more people. Shit. I just missed the lease payment on my BMW. DAMN YOU COLDFUSION Takin the bus to the office (if I could afford the office), Emmet ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219567 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Idea for better hosting
Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE On 9/29/05, Snake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes you can. The Web Edition is a web server, thus the name. So it wont let you run certain other MS products such as SQL Server which require Windows 2003 Server std. But it cannot stop installing any 3rd party product. Russ -Original Message- From: Joel Nath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2005 08:45 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Hi, can you run CFMX on Windows Server 2003, Web Edition i was told you cant, that it doesnt support it ? -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 12:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting The original post is set in some bizarre dream world. Clustering bad code just means bad code running on 3 servers. Let's look at the costs anyway. We'll cut corners when we can and look at sticky sessions on standard cf licenses too. ---WINDOWS--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition x3 $2,997 CF Enterprise x3 $17,997 --- TOTAL: $25,194 - $27,594 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Web Edition x3 $1,200 CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $9,297 - $11,697 ---LINUX--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Redhat Linux ES x3 $1,047 CF Enterprise x3 $17,997 --- TOTAL: $23,244 - $25,644 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 FEDORA x3 $FREE CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $8,097 - $10,497 So you can budget for $8,097 - $27,594 With 400 clients at $15-$30 a month you get $6,000 - $12,000 a month. I'm frickin RICH BIATCH! Lease me a BMW! except... Now you need a way to load balance. Hardware - $3000-$1 Software NLB - $FREE Damn... Your rack is filling up fast. $1200-2000 per month per rack. Holy crap! We're out of room on the switch again. $600 File replication shut down again. Wheres Larry the tech? - $30-$80k salary $%#! CRC errors on the NLB!!! Where's Larry's brother Larry? $30-$80k yr Sally from Sallysellsseashells.com http://Sallysellsseashells.com can't get her mail. Support - $24-$35 yr These expenses are killing us. Where's Rich the sales guy? - $24k base YAY!!! Were growing! We need to hire some more people. Shit. I just missed the lease payment on my BMW. DAMN YOU COLDFUSION Takin the bus to the office (if I could afford the office), Emmet ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219622 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Idea for better hosting
In my dreamworld, I suddenly realized that perhaps someone has already thought of this. So I searched for load balanced hosting and found 588000 results. Oops emmett, this bizzare dreamworld seems to occur in your world. .. . DRE On 9/29/05, DRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219627 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
I wasn't trying to insult you. Sorry if that I did. It was a lighthearted explanation of why that will never happen, at least not in the shared environment. We have several clustered CF enterprise setups. They add a whole new level of difficulty to management and maintenance. The additional cost in support greatly increases the cost of provisioning above hardware and licensing. For now VPS is as close as anyone will get to affordability and isolated stability. Unfortunately, I'm sure that will change once licensing catches up. Emmet -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:43 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE On 9/29/05, Snake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes you can. The Web Edition is a web server, thus the name. So it wont let you run certain other MS products such as SQL Server which require Windows 2003 Server std. But it cannot stop installing any 3rd party product. Russ -Original Message- From: Joel Nath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2005 08:45 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Hi, can you run CFMX on Windows Server 2003, Web Edition i was told you cant, that it doesnt support it ? -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 12:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting The original post is set in some bizarre dream world. Clustering bad code just means bad code running on 3 servers. Let's look at the costs anyway. We'll cut corners when we can and look at sticky sessions on standard cf licenses too. ---WINDOWS--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition x3 $2,997 CF Enterprise x3 $17,997 --- TOTAL: $25,194 - $27,594 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Web Edition x3 $1,200 CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $9,297 - $11,697 ---LINUX--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Redhat Linux ES x3 $1,047 CF Enterprise x3 $17,997 --- TOTAL: $23,244 - $25,644 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 FEDORA x3 $FREE CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $8,097 - $10,497 So you can budget for $8,097 - $27,594 With 400 clients at $15-$30 a month you get $6,000 - $12,000 a month. I'm frickin RICH BIATCH! Lease me a BMW! except... Now you need a way to load balance. Hardware - $3000-$1 Software NLB - $FREE Damn... Your rack is filling up fast. $1200-2000 per month per rack. Holy crap! We're out of room on the switch again. $600 File replication shut down again. Wheres Larry the tech? - $30-$80k salary $%#! CRC errors on the NLB!!! Where's Larry's brother Larry? $30-$80k yr Sally from Sallysellsseashells.com http://Sallysellsseashells.com can't get her mail. Support - $24-$35 yr These expenses are killing us. Where's Rich the sales guy? - $24k base YAY!!! Were growing! We need to hire some more people. Shit. I just missed the lease payment on my BMW. DAMN YOU COLDFUSION Takin the bus to the office (if I could afford the office), Emmet ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219637 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
I hope I don't offend you but... We were talking about Coldfusion clustering. Take away Coldfusion and you can definitely find clustered hosting. And since were talking shared environments were also talking about affordable hosting. Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable = Bizarre Dream World. -E -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting thought of this. So I searched for load balanced hosting and found 588000 results. Oops emmett, this bizzare dreamworld seems to occur in your world. ... . DRE On 9/29/05, DRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219686 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Idea for better hosting
Emmett, Some simple math where we're adding $ instead of things that arent addeable quantities like Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable (WTF?). Consider x amount of sites that get y amount of hits and 3 servers to host. If youre a hosting company, you would split them across 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses. Or, as I was suggesting, you have them all on 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses and a load balancer. Here the really bad sites would hit each server 1/3 as hard because they are load balanced and you wouldnt get the possibility of randomly getting half of them on one server. So, the jrun error may not appear as often or very much at all and you'd generally have happier customers. I'm thinking that if this company http://powweb.com can do linux hosting like this for less than 8 dollars a month then that load balancer and the extra admin that you consider bizzare are probably quite acceptable costs. DRE On 9/29/05, Emmet McGovern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope I don't offend you but... We were talking about Coldfusion clustering. Take away Coldfusion and you can definitely find clustered hosting. And since were talking shared environments were also talking about affordable hosting. Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable = Bizarre Dream World. -E -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting thought of this. So I searched for load balanced hosting and found 588000 results. Oops emmett, this bizzare dreamworld seems to occur in your world. ... . DRE On 9/29/05, DRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219710 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
Powweb does not support coldfusion hosting. Find the one that does. -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting Emmett, Some simple math where we're adding $ instead of things that arent addeable quantities like Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable (WTF?). Consider x amount of sites that get y amount of hits and 3 servers to host. If youre a hosting company, you would split them across 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses. Or, as I was suggesting, you have them all on 3 servers. So, you've got 3 machines, 3 licences of coldfusion, 3 oses and a load balancer. Here the really bad sites would hit each server 1/3 as hard because they are load balanced and you wouldnt get the possibility of randomly getting half of them on one server. So, the jrun error may not appear as often or very much at all and you'd generally have happier customers. I'm thinking that if this company http://powweb.com can do linux hosting like this for less than 8 dollars a month then that load balancer and the extra admin that you consider bizzare are probably quite acceptable costs. DRE On 9/29/05, Emmet McGovern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope I don't offend you but... We were talking about Coldfusion clustering. Take away Coldfusion and you can definitely find clustered hosting. And since were talking shared environments were also talking about affordable hosting. Coldfusion + Clustering + Affordable = Bizarre Dream World. -E -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Idea for better hosting thought of this. So I searched for load balanced hosting and found 588000 results. Oops emmett, this bizzare dreamworld seems to occur in your world. ... . DRE On 9/29/05, DRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn your insulting Emmett, Did you read my initial post? It would be a nice dreamworld if people read carefully. Have a nice day. DRE ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219722 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
Actually don't. Topic closed. -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Powweb does not support coldfusion hosting. Find the one that does. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219726 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
I came up with the same idea a few months ago, and we're currently in the process of setting up a cluster just like that. We are still beta testing it, but once it's ready, I will post an announcement to the list. We plan to keep our prices fairly low. Russ -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Actually don't. Topic closed. -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Powweb does not support coldfusion hosting. Find the one that does. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219727 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Idea for better hosting
Its an idea Emmet, the fact that no one is doing it with coldfusion yet is the point! Keep me posted Russ. DRE On 9/29/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I came up with the same idea a few months ago, and we're currently in the process of setting up a cluster just like that. We are still beta testing it, but once it's ready, I will post an announcement to the list. We plan to keep our prices fairly low. Russ -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Actually don't. Topic closed. -Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting Powweb does not support coldfusion hosting. Find the one that does. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219728 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
Just curious, is this post in any way directed to us? Just asking because it seems you replied to a post I wrote. Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 7:33 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Idea for better hosting Hey, I just had an idea for you guys working at hosting companies. Instead of just running each site on one server where its depenedent on all the other sites workign well, why not load balance between 2 or 3 servers. If you think about it, it shouldnt cost more because you'd be able to put twice as many sites on each machine because the load would be that proportion smaller(other than the loadbalancer). If one goes south, then the load balancing would work while you reboot the machine. All you'd have to do is setup some sort of directory watching so that the user would only have to maintain files on one machine. Presto, no more stupid the jrun service is unavailable messages. DRE On 9/28/05, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea works, I have it implemented in several places. Any more details as why it didn't work for you? Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219529 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
The problem with that would be where to put the database. If the database is an msaccess, or any other database running on the local machine, this could prove difficult. If it's a shared database on a different server, then that becomes the single point of failure. -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Idea for better hosting Hey, I just had an idea for you guys working at hosting companies. Instead of just running each site on one server where its depenedent on all the other sites workign well, why not load balance between 2 or 3 servers. If you think about it, it shouldnt cost more because you'd be able to put twice as many sites on each machine because the load would be that proportion smaller(other than the loadbalancer). If one goes south, then the load balancing would work while you reboot the machine. All you'd have to do is setup some sort of directory watching so that the user would only have to maintain files on one machine. Presto, no more stupid the jrun service is unavailable messages. DRE On 9/28/05, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea works, I have it implemented in several places. Any more details as why it didn't work for you? Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? Not only the IN method work, but yours did not, at least on MSSQL. I tried it. Now that's not necessarily the most efficient solution around, but if you have millions and millions of records to parse through with CF, then you need a DBA to ensure proper indexing and all that jazz, so you can let him write it. Matthew Small Web Developer American City Business Journals 704-973-1045 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? I would not expect an answer like that from a proper DBA. Not sure if we are talking about MS SQL or MySQL, but the idea is to work with subqueries. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT * TOP 20 FROM (SELECT TOP (200 + 20) yourColumn1, yourColumn2 FROM yourTable C ORDER BY C.yourOrderColumn ASC) B ORDER BY B.yourOrderColumn DESC ) A ORDER BY A.yourOrderColumn ASC Where 200 is for example the current row you are on and 20 is the number of records you want to retrieve. The idea is to first get TOP currentRow + numberOfRowToRetrieve Then order descending and get the top 20 Then order ascending and select all This way you only transfer from the DB over the network what you need to, and the query is not inefficient, especially if you got the right indexes. Now, its early here, so I might have made a mistake, but you get the general idea. I think the previous sample with IN does not work, especially not efficient. Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 2:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? Here's a post from a DBA I'm friends with: QUOTE Just pull the entire query over to CF and use query of queries, to grab your paged row sets. I work with record sets of millions and it works very nicely. /QUOTE !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Greg Morphis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SQL row select? Select top 50 * from table Where id not in ( select top 199 id from table order by date, alpha) order by date, alpha that works but what if you are paging through a million records as suggested before? wouldnt the inner query select the top 999,999 rows? IE Select top 50 * from table Where id not in ( select top 99 id from table order by date, alpha ) order by date, alpha I think thats what Mike K was talking about. On 9/28/05, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did no one see this post? After reading, and re-reading the original post, it looks like this simple SQL statement is the answer (assuming that MSSQL supports the LIMIT clause: SELECT * FROM tablename LIMIT #startrow#, #totalrecords# or SELECT * FROM tablename LIMIT 200, 50 !//-- andy
RE: Idea for better hosting
Plus - some of the code I have seen would have the potential of bringing down 2 servers for the price of 1. In addition, the margins on hosting are very small - and you just added extra admin :) -Mark P.S. When you get that JRUN message, don't blame the messenger - Usually it is either underdeveloped database programming or other poorly written code. -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Idea for better hosting The problem with that would be where to put the database. If the database is an msaccess, or any other database running on the local machine, this could prove difficult. If it's a shared database on a different server, then that becomes the single point of failure. -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Idea for better hosting Hey, I just had an idea for you guys working at hosting companies. Instead of just running each site on one server where its depenedent on all the other sites workign well, why not load balance between 2 or 3 servers. If you think about it, it shouldnt cost more because you'd be able to put twice as many sites on each machine because the load would be that proportion smaller(other than the loadbalancer). If one goes south, then the load balancing would work while you reboot the machine. All you'd have to do is setup some sort of directory watching so that the user would only have to maintain files on one machine. Presto, no more stupid the jrun service is unavailable messages. DRE On 9/28/05, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea works, I have it implemented in several places. Any more details as why it didn't work for you? Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? Not only the IN method work, but yours did not, at least on MSSQL. I tried it. Now that's not necessarily the most efficient solution around, but if you have millions and millions of records to parse through with CF, then you need a DBA to ensure proper indexing and all that jazz, so you can let him write it. Matthew Small Web Developer American City Business Journals 704-973-1045 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? I would not expect an answer like that from a proper DBA. Not sure if we are talking about MS SQL or MySQL, but the idea is to work with subqueries. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT * TOP 20 FROM (SELECT TOP (200 + 20) yourColumn1, yourColumn2 FROM yourTable C ORDER BY C.yourOrderColumn ASC) B ORDER BY B.yourOrderColumn DESC ) A ORDER BY A.yourOrderColumn ASC Where 200 is for example the current row you are on and 20 is the number of records you want to retrieve. The idea is to first get TOP currentRow + numberOfRowToRetrieve Then order descending and get the top 20 Then order ascending and select all This way you only transfer from the DB over the network what you need to, and the query is not inefficient, especially if you got the right indexes. Now, its early here, so I might have made a mistake, but you get the general idea. I think the previous sample with IN does not work, especially not efficient. Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 2:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? Here's a post from a DBA I'm friends with: QUOTE Just pull the entire query over to CF and use query of queries, to grab your paged row sets. I work with record sets of millions and it works very nicely. /QUOTE !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Greg Morphis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SQL row select? Select top 50 * from table Where id not in ( select top 199 id from table order by date, alpha) order by date, alpha that works but what if you are paging through a million records as suggested before? wouldnt the inner query select the top 999,999 rows? IE Select top 50 * from table Where id not in ( select top 99 id from table order by date, alpha ) order
Re: Idea for better hosting
Russ, Certainly its not a good solution for access but by far the greatest point of failure for most shared hosting sites I've seen is coldfusion running out of resources. If we could stamp that out for everything but access and filebased state managment, we'd be ahead. Or at least those of us who sometimes develop sites that go on overextended shared hosts would be. Any host that would do this would be at an instant competitive advantage with minimal additional cost. Taco, Not aimed at you. I randomly used one of your messages and changed the subject. DRE On 9/28/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with that would be where to put the database. If the database is an msaccess, or any other database running on the local machine, this could prove difficult. If it's a shared database on a different server, then that becomes the single point of failure. -Original Message- From: DRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Idea for better hosting Hey, I just had an idea for you guys working at hosting companies. Instead of just running each site on one server where its depenedent on all the other sites workign well, why not load balance between 2 or 3 servers. If you think about it, it shouldnt cost more because you'd be able to put twice as many sites on each machine because the load would be that proportion smaller(other than the loadbalancer). If one goes south, then the load balancing would work while you reboot the machine. All you'd have to do is setup some sort of directory watching so that the user would only have to maintain files on one machine. Presto, no more stupid the jrun service is unavailable messages. DRE On 9/28/05, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea works, I have it implemented in several places. Any more details as why it didn't work for you? Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? Not only the IN method work, but yours did not, at least on MSSQL. I tried it. Now that's not necessarily the most efficient solution around, but if you have millions and millions of records to parse through with CF, then you need a DBA to ensure proper indexing and all that jazz, so you can let him write it. Matthew Small Web Developer American City Business Journals 704-973-1045 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? I would not expect an answer like that from a proper DBA. Not sure if we are talking about MS SQL or MySQL, but the idea is to work with subqueries. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT * TOP 20 FROM (SELECT TOP (200 + 20) yourColumn1, yourColumn2 FROM yourTable C ORDER BY C.yourOrderColumn ASC) B ORDER BY B.yourOrderColumn DESC ) A ORDER BY A.yourOrderColumn ASC Where 200 is for example the current row you are on and 20 is the number of records you want to retrieve. The idea is to first get TOP currentRow + numberOfRowToRetrieve Then order descending and get the top 20 Then order ascending and select all This way you only transfer from the DB over the network what you need to, and the query is not inefficient, especially if you got the right indexes. Now, its early here, so I might have made a mistake, but you get the general idea. I think the previous sample with IN does not work, especially not efficient. Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . http://www.pacificfox.com - Web Design and Development -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 2:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SQL row select? Here's a post from a DBA I'm friends with: QUOTE Just pull the entire query over to CF and use query of queries, to grab your paged row sets. I work with record sets of millions and it works very nicely. /QUOTE !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Greg Morphis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SQL row select? Select top 50 * from table Where id not in ( select top 199 id from table order by date, alpha) order by date, alpha that works but what if you are paging through a
Re: Idea for better hosting
Mark, I know where the jrun message comes from, thanks but thats irrelevant. Clients dont care why theres a jrun message. They just are pissed that there is one and that there isnt a site. Its an extremely competitive market and any differentiation can be the difference between breaking even and making profit. Just an idea. DRE On 9/28/05, Mark A Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plus - some of the code I have seen would have the potential of bringing down 2 servers for the price of 1. In addition, the margins on hosting are very small - and you just added extra admin :) -Mark P.S. When you get that JRUN message, don't blame the messenger - Usually it is either underdeveloped database programming or other poorly written code. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219543 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Idea for better hosting
Mark A Kruger wrote: In addition, the margins on hosting are very small - and you just added extra admin :) -Mark This would be my comment as well. Hosting is a tough, tough market. It could take up to 2 years for a hosting company to see ROI on it's server investments. The last thing we need is additional hardware costs to push that ROI point even farther back. Instead of load balancing, Vivio chose the VPS route. That way one account doesn't effect the other. They're all separated at the core level. Combine that with the liberal license and power of Linux, and you have yourself an affordable, stable, and secure place to develop and run your sites. As a developer, I firmly believe that Vivio's hosting accounts are the best available. I might be slightly biased though... ;) -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219544 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Idea for better hosting
The original post is set in some bizarre dream world. Clustering bad code just means bad code running on 3 servers. Let's look at the costs anyway. We'll cut corners when we can and look at sticky sessions on standard cf licenses too. ---WINDOWS--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition x3$2,997 CF Enterprise x3$17,997 --- TOTAL: $25,194 - $27,594 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Windows Server 2003, Web Edition x3 $1,200 CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $9,297 - $11,697 ---LINUX--- Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 Redhat Linux ES x3 $1,047 CF Enterprise x3$17,997 --- TOTAL: $23,244 - $25,644 Servers x 3 $4200 - $6600 FEDORA x3 $FREE CF Standard x3 $3,897 --- TOTAL: $8,097 - $10,497 So you can budget for $8,097 - $27,594 With 400 clients at $15-$30 a month you get $6,000 - $12,000 a month. I'm frickin RICH BIATCH! Lease me a BMW! except... Now you need a way to load balance. Hardware - $3000-$1 Software NLB - $FREE Damn... Your rack is filling up fast. $1200-2000 per month per rack. Holy crap! We're out of room on the switch again. $600 File replication shut down again. Wheres Larry the tech? - $30-$80k salary $%#! CRC errors on the NLB!!! Where's Larry's brother Larry? $30-$80k yr Sally from Sallysellsseashells.com can't get her mail. Support - $24-$35 yr These expenses are killing us. Where's Rich the sales guy? - $24k base YAY!!! Were growing! We need to hire some more people. Shit. I just missed the lease payment on my BMW. DAMN YOU COLDFUSION Takin the bus to the office (if I could afford the office), Emmet ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:219548 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
