RE: Search engine question
I've not found that the domain NAME really matters so much as long as it is usable and memorable to PEOPLE. What I have found is that it's very easy to get a page ranked very highly for a specific set of terms. That being the case, I did that for several different sites on the same terms with the same products managed from the same back-end. The end result has been a tremendously successful growth in sales by occupying so many positions high in the rankings that all appear to be competitors. On my top 3 search words/phrases, 5 of my sites take up 12 of the top rankings. --Ferg -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question I'm sure the domain names play into the rankings, but they can be used deceptively so easily, I don't know how much weight the actual domain name carries...? Rick -Original Message- From: Nick Baker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:34 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Search engines try to keep their methodologies close to the vest, but I have read some past talk about how search engines weight the relevant words in the domain name itself. That makes sense simply because one needs to keep the domain name within the realm of relevancy. Ken mentioned early on in the thread about the concept of spreading one's business over several sites, based on subcategories of products. Then inter-linking the sites. That is a good marketing strategy in itself simply because it is less noise to the site visitor. Domain names are inexpensive. That old idea of having a short domain name just doesn't fit anymore. For less than $30 bucks a year. Johndoestennisshop.com Johndoestennisballs.com Johndoestennisrackets.com Johndoestennisshoes.com Seems to offer advantages over something like the below Johndoestennisshop.com/rackets Johndoestennisshop.com/balls Johndoestennisshop.com/shoes Plus this gives more home pages to work with. Another 2 cents, Nick ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201355 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
I'm sure the domain names play into the rankings, but they can be used deceptively so easily, I don't know how much weight the actual domain name carries...? Rick -Original Message- From: Nick Baker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:34 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Search engines try to keep their methodologies close to the vest, but I have read some past talk about how search engines weight the relevant words in the domain name itself. That makes sense simply because one needs to keep the domain name within the realm of relevancy. Ken mentioned early on in the thread about the concept of spreading one's business over several sites, based on subcategories of products. Then inter-linking the sites. That is a good marketing strategy in itself simply because it is less noise to the site visitor. Domain names are inexpensive. That old idea of having a short domain name just doesn't fit anymore. For less than $30 bucks a year. Johndoestennisshop.com Johndoestennisballs.com Johndoestennisrackets.com Johndoestennisshoes.com Seems to offer advantages over something like the below Johndoestennisshop.com/rackets Johndoestennisshop.com/balls Johndoestennisshop.com/shoes Plus this gives more home pages to work with. Another 2 cents, Nick At 12:50 AM 4/1/2005, you wrote: Hrm, what about wrapping chunks of Text inside divs that have visible = false? Has anyone applied that technique aswell (now you all have be curious again on SOE) On Apr 1, 2005 12:25 PM, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, certainly you're right, because various pages in my clients sites show up in the rankings...not just the index or home page. However, those other pages appear in the rankings when they actually have more relevant keywords/phrases searched for than the index or home page. I have one Real Estate broker who also sells insurance. When insurance is search for, the insurance page shows up in the rankings, but not the index or homepage...and that's the way I think it should be. The pages of the site seem to be ranked individually, rather than the site as a whole...again, which is the way I think it should be. I would hate to have to try to get all the keywords/phrases I need for some of the larger sites on the homepage! If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. But I wouldn't want a page like that on the site...it would appear to the viewer that the page had no content...that's as bad as some of the gateway pages I've seen. The copy is terrible for the human visitor, but great for the bot... Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any
RE: Search engine question
I haven't used that technique...I focus mostly on working within the real copy of a site (organic SEO), plus meta tags, page titles, etc Plus, I've just started working the PPC side of search. Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Hrm, what about wrapping chunks of Text inside divs that have visible = false? Has anyone applied that technique aswell (now you all have be curious again on SOE) On Apr 1, 2005 12:25 PM, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, certainly you're right, because various pages in my clients sites show up in the rankings...not just the index or home page. However, those other pages appear in the rankings when they actually have more relevant keywords/phrases searched for than the index or home page. I have one Real Estate broker who also sells insurance. When insurance is search for, the insurance page shows up in the rankings, but not the index or homepage...and that's the way I think it should be. The pages of the site seem to be ranked individually, rather than the site as a whole...again, which is the way I think it should be. I would hate to have to try to get all the keywords/phrases I need for some of the larger sites on the homepage! If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. But I wouldn't want a page like that on the site...it would appear to the viewer that the page had no content...that's as bad as some of the gateway pages I've seen. The copy is terrible for the human visitor, but great for the bot... Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding method to be inappropriate under any circumstances. It amounts to the same thing as having a Site Map on a page which simply contains links to various parts of the site based on keywords/phrases that searchers are using, such as: Hinesville Real Estate Hinesville GA Real Estate Hinesville Georgia Real Estate Fort Stewart Real Estate Fort Stewart GA Real Estate Fort Stewart Georgia Real Estate While such an approach may not seem to make a lot of sense to a viewer who is unaware of why these variations would be on a page, which is to appeal to bots, I don't see how it would be considered unethical to include those variations on site map. Any thoughts on this? Rick -Original Message- From
RE: Search engine question
Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200940 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
People linking to your site also helps your google rankings. Simply spamming the crap out of your site with repeated sentences or paragraphs will not win you any favours with google. The algorithiums used are a little smarter in terms of what to spider and what not to spider. Google Hacks is a good book and explains all these little ins/outs to be aware of with Google, and i must say after reading it i was damn impressed at how smart that engine really is... and i am thankful that the old word spamming trick to get higher rankings no longer works (nothing like searching for a disney movie to show the little ones and seeing two adults doing things to each other that animals wouldn't even do).. On the side: If you have a 100% flash site that pulls in content (aka say FLEX) but want it to also have a google ranking, its quite easily done via XML/XLST to create a flat site (as if it were the actual site) for a google to spider and rank against. Plus, Sitemaps are very important as they allow the bots to get a decent bite out of your sites entire heirachy just watch the link backs within as the bots have a certain threshold and then they are gone. Organisation of content is important as well, put your important stuff up in front (css trickery here) and your less important down the bottom. Try and use XHTML for your HTML soup as in the end the semantics of B vs STRONG may down the track give you extra boost for you buck in terms of word weighting via google. Link to other sites aswell, I've not validated this one as yet but MossyBlog seems to do all right in terms of rankings due to my linking to sites and in turn sometimes they link back to me (which google loves) These concepts may have changed now as i know they continue to improve google a lot since the book hit the shelves... On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:30:18 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200944 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
It's not a good idea to spam the crap out of your site with repeated sentences or paragraphs, but repeated, relevant keywords and phrases are the primary elements that get you ranked highly. Just do a Google search on a keyword or phrase and looked at the cached version and look at the highlighted words...getting the copy written well for both human and bot visitors is an art, not a science... The difficulty is in getting sufficient repetition for the spiders while being relevant to the readers. And, if the information is good, as in good business-relevant announcements, then it's not spamming the visitor. I agree with all your other points... Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question People linking to your site also helps your google rankings. Simply spamming the crap out of your site with repeated sentences or paragraphs will not win you any favours with google. The algorithiums used are a little smarter in terms of what to spider and what not to spider. Google Hacks is a good book and explains all these little ins/outs to be aware of with Google, and i must say after reading it i was damn impressed at how smart that engine really is... and i am thankful that the old word spamming trick to get higher rankings no longer works (nothing like searching for a disney movie to show the little ones and seeing two adults doing things to each other that animals wouldn't even do).. On the side: If you have a 100% flash site that pulls in content (aka say FLEX) but want it to also have a google ranking, its quite easily done via XML/XLST to create a flat site (as if it were the actual site) for a google to spider and rank against. Plus, Sitemaps are very important as they allow the bots to get a decent bite out of your sites entire heirachy just watch the link backs within as the bots have a certain threshold and then they are gone. Organisation of content is important as well, put your important stuff up in front (css trickery here) and your less important down the bottom. Try and use XHTML for your HTML soup as in the end the semantics of B vs STRONG may down the track give you extra boost for you buck in terms of word weighting via google. Link to other sites aswell, I've not validated this one as yet but MossyBlog seems to do all right in terms of rankings due to my linking to sites and in turn sometimes they link back to me (which google loves) These concepts may have changed now as i know they continue to improve google a lot since the book hit the shelves... On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:30:18 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search
RE: Search engine question
Dave, I've got to take issue with you for an incomplete answer while agreeing with you at the same time for a correct answer. Given that your site has good content, multiple domains can help you. What I've found works really well though is to have two sites selling the same merchandise with different domains and designs... Essentially, they are multiple competing sites, all optimized nicely to take up spots near the top of the search listings. In this way, multiple domains mean an incredible amount of extra business for my company. One of my sites occupies all of the top 8-10 spots for the search terms/phrases we care about most. So the key is not just to point multiple domains to one site, but to replicate your site and compete with yourself. If you do a good job at it on all of your sites, you'll definitely see the benefit. Don't make life harder for yourself though; make sure that the bulk of your administration can be handled in one place... Also, some of my sites only sell a specific subset of our products. --Ferg -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:02 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: re: Search engine question No. Content is king - let me rephrase that CONTENT IS KING!! One reason cssp style sites are better for ranking is the clean design and easy access to the pages content, which brings us back to, Content Is King. The page title has more relevance than more urls, the only thing more url's will give you is more page links to the site but you would need several hundred thousands of them to make a difference, plus they may nail you for spamming the bots in which case, well lets just say you don't wanna do that! What's the url wilbergini? I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx.com/HowGoogleWorks.swf From: Will Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:38 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Search engine question Ok, don't pummel me for askin this one. I just know some of you will have the answer. On my volleyball apparel site, the client is asking about added domain names to help attract more people. If I were to use something volleyball-shorts.com as a domain name, would that add relevance to the site with Google? Thanks much, Will ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200971 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
Sure 1. open up flash 2. make a new movie and size it 1x1 pixels 3. in the actionscript enter this mass of coding beauty //redirect to home page is client has proper version of flash getURL (main.cfm) 4. export at the lowest required version of flash that you require. 5. embed :) Then on the index page I would just properly fill it up with content in VERY simple tags AND very COMPLIANT xhtml code. So that the bots can whip right through it and gooble up all the content and give you a nice fat score! By making it just basic code will help it load really fast and redirect without the visitor seeing it but the bots will still get all the content. The other thing to remember is to have a nice lil flash redirect script as well in case the viewer doesnt have the required flash version, which is more an issue now with the advent of flash forms requiring flash player 7. If you need that I have a great flash embed script that both validates and shows a nice message if its not there. dave From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201048 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
1. open up flash I mentioned earlier that I don't have Flash, so I was wondering if you could give me your little 1x1 movie already complete? I would need to start at step 5...embed :o) And since I don't, at this point, use Flash in any of my sites, it wouldn't matter if they had the right version or not, I would still want to just send them on to the homepage of the site from the bot page. And I assume the bot page would be filled with keywords and phrases, headlines, links, site map, etc? Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Sure 1. open up flash 2. make a new movie and size it 1x1 pixels 3. in the actionscript enter this mass of coding beauty //redirect to home page is client has proper version of flash getURL (main.cfm) 4. export at the lowest required version of flash that you require. 5. embed :) Then on the index page I would just properly fill it up with content in VERY simple tags AND very COMPLIANT xhtml code. So that the bots can whip right through it and gooble up all the content and give you a nice fat score! By making it just basic code will help it load really fast and redirect without the visitor seeing it but the bots will still get all the content. The other thing to remember is to have a nice lil flash redirect script as well in case the viewer doesnt have the required flash version, which is more an issue now with the advent of flash forms requiring flash player 7. If you need that I have a great flash embed script that both validates and shows a nice message if its not there. dave From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201067 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
I agree with whomever stated that it was good to have other domain name. My answer was directed towards will's site only, sorry I should have noted that. While having a few other domain that are PROPERLY formated for placement is a good thing just having other domain names with pointers to the the main domain isn't. I think what Willerini's client thinks or is looking for is some magic, some thing to quickly and cheaply drive traffic there, which we all know is not so easy. So my answer was basically saying no to just having other names. Instead he needs to properly format what he already has and then go from there. Basically what I know about the site is that cost is somewhat of an issue so it has to be done efficiently. Ok well i see he was written me so I will help him and maybe we will post what what done ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201069 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
oh sorry lol I'll send that to you. I'll remake it in an earlier version of flash so you shouldnt have much trouble gimme a few minutes From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question 1. open up flash I mentioned earlier that I don't have Flash, so I was wondering if you could give me your little 1x1 movie already complete? I would need to start at step 5...embed :o) And since I don't, at this point, use Flash in any of my sites, it wouldn't matter if they had the right version or not, I would still want to just send them on to the homepage of the site from the bot page. And I assume the bot page would be filled with keywords and phrases, headlines, links, site map, etc? Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Sure 1. open up flash 2. make a new movie and size it 1x1 pixels 3. in the actionscript enter this mass of coding beauty //redirect to home page is client has proper version of flash getURL (main.cfm) 4. export at the lowest required version of flash that you require. 5. embed :) Then on the index page I would just properly fill it up with content in VERY simple tags AND very COMPLIANT xhtml code. So that the bots can whip right through it and gooble up all the content and give you a nice fat score! By making it just basic code will help it load really fast and redirect without the visitor seeing it but the bots will still get all the content. The other thing to remember is to have a nice lil flash redirect script as well in case the viewer doesnt have the required flash version, which is more an issue now with the advent of flash forms requiring flash player 7. If you need that I have a great flash embed script that both validates and shows a nice message if its not there. dave From: Rick Faircloth Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201071 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http
Re: Search engine question
Well I did it, but it isn't quite fast enough. The swf is only 53 byes. Sits for a second, but that's too long. I COULD place some text like: entering winston court sports.com h am I doing somethin wrong? Thanks, Will ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201074 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
Thanks, Dave...didn't mean to hi-jack the thread... Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question oh sorry lol I'll send that to you. I'll remake it in an earlier version of flash so you shouldnt have much trouble gimme a few minutes From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question 1. open up flash I mentioned earlier that I don't have Flash, so I was wondering if you could give me your little 1x1 movie already complete? I would need to start at step 5...embed :o) And since I don't, at this point, use Flash in any of my sites, it wouldn't matter if they had the right version or not, I would still want to just send them on to the homepage of the site from the bot page. And I assume the bot page would be filled with keywords and phrases, headlines, links, site map, etc? Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Sure 1. open up flash 2. make a new movie and size it 1x1 pixels 3. in the actionscript enter this mass of coding beauty //redirect to home page is client has proper version of flash getURL (main.cfm) 4. export at the lowest required version of flash that you require. 5. embed :) Then on the index page I would just properly fill it up with content in VERY simple tags AND very COMPLIANT xhtml code. So that the bots can whip right through it and gooble up all the content and give you a nice fat score! By making it just basic code will help it load really fast and redirect without the visitor seeing it but the bots will still get all the content. The other thing to remember is to have a nice lil flash redirect script as well in case the viewer doesnt have the required flash version, which is more an issue now with the advent of flash forms requiring flash player 7. If you need that I have a great flash embed script that both validates and shows a nice message if its not there. dave From: Rick Faircloth Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project
RE: Search engine question
I'll try and fix wills then post the code with some better embedding and stuff and will post it back. No worries, I think I am the king of hijacking threads lol. I don't mean to... From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:07 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question Thanks, Dave...didn't mean to hi-jack the thread... Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question oh sorry lol I'll send that to you. I'll remake it in an earlier version of flash so you shouldnt have much trouble gimme a few minutes From: Rick Faircloth Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question 1. open up flash I mentioned earlier that I don't have Flash, so I was wondering if you could give me your little 1x1 movie already complete? I would need to start at step 5...embed :o) And since I don't, at this point, use Flash in any of my sites, it wouldn't matter if they had the right version or not, I would still want to just send them on to the homepage of the site from the bot page. And I assume the bot page would be filled with keywords and phrases, headlines, links, site map, etc? Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Sure 1. open up flash 2. make a new movie and size it 1x1 pixels 3. in the actionscript enter this mass of coding beauty //redirect to home page is client has proper version of flash getURL (main.cfm) 4. export at the lowest required version of flash that you require. 5. embed :) Then on the index page I would just properly fill it up with content in VERY simple tags AND very COMPLIANT xhtml code. So that the bots can whip right through it and gooble up all the content and give you a nice fat score! By making it just basic code will help it load really fast and redirect without the visitor seeing it but the bots will still get all the content. The other thing to remember is to have a nice lil flash redirect script as well in case the viewer doesnt have the required flash version, which is more an issue now with the advent of flash forms requiring flash player 7. If you need that I have a great flash embed script that both validates and shows a nice message if its not there. dave From: Rick Faircloth Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't
RE: Search engine question
I used the .swf file you sent, Dave, but I, too, am getting too much of a delay between the bot page and the main.cfm... I just put the text Bot Page on the bot page and I could see it before the main.cfm came up... I'll wait for you're changes to it for Will then get the update and try again...this could be a great boon for my SEO business... Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question I'll try and fix wills then post the code with some better embedding and stuff and will post it back. No worries, I think I am the king of hijacking threads lol. I don't mean to... From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:07 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question Thanks, Dave...didn't mean to hi-jack the thread... Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question oh sorry lol I'll send that to you. I'll remake it in an earlier version of flash so you shouldnt have much trouble gimme a few minutes From: Rick Faircloth Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question 1. open up flash I mentioned earlier that I don't have Flash, so I was wondering if you could give me your little 1x1 movie already complete? I would need to start at step 5...embed :o) And since I don't, at this point, use Flash in any of my sites, it wouldn't matter if they had the right version or not, I would still want to just send them on to the homepage of the site from the bot page. And I assume the bot page would be filled with keywords and phrases, headlines, links, site map, etc? Rick -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Sure 1. open up flash 2. make a new movie and size it 1x1 pixels 3. in the actionscript enter this mass of coding beauty //redirect to home page is client has proper version of flash getURL (main.cfm) 4. export at the lowest required version of flash that you require. 5. embed :) Then on the index page I would just properly fill it up with content in VERY simple tags AND very COMPLIANT xhtml code. So that the bots can whip right through it and gooble up all the content and give you a nice fat score! By making it just basic code will help it load really fast and redirect without the visitor seeing it but the bots will still get all the content. The other thing to remember is to have a nice lil flash redirect script as well in case the viewer doesnt have the required flash version, which is more an issue now with the advent of flash forms requiring flash player 7. If you need that I have a great flash embed script that both validates and shows a nice message if its not there. dave From: Rick Faircloth Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Search engine question Hey, Dave... Since I'm working on SEO with my clients, but don't do Flash, would you like to share that lil flash swf with me to use, or is that something you prefer to keep in-house? Getting good index page content without blowing away the visitor with word overload has always been a challenge. One thing I do a lot of is have the client use Announcements on the index page. That way, keywords and phrases can be repeated often in the announcement titles and text, but because the repetition is under separate announcements, the reader's information sensibilities aren't offended. The reader can scan the Announcement Titles and decide whether to read the Announcement or not, but the spider eats it all... I let the client add business-relevant announcements and part of my service is to keep an eye on them and keep them optimized with keywords and phrases that need to be repeated frequently... Rick -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up
Re: Search engine question
I missed the little SWF trick that's being talked aboutbut I thought I saw something about redirects...which can kill your SEO...so I thought I'd double check and make sue this trick doesn't involve redirects on the home page of site?? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201088 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
I think what's happening here is (not knowing that much about how bots read Flash) that Dave is saying his .swf redirect method is not penalized by bots like redirects using other methods...right Dave? Rick -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question I missed the little SWF trick that's being talked aboutbut I thought I saw something about redirects...which can kill your SEO...so I thought I'd double check and make sue this trick doesn't involve redirects on the home page of site?? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201089 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
Yes redirects will kill you thats why I didnt like the buy additional domain names and redirect the to the main site. But putting the redirect into a swf should be fine since the bots dont extract .as yet nor do they have flash installed so at this point it's a trick that works. Do you remember when you could color the page background then load up all the content in the same color so it wasnt seen? Well after that was busted you could instead make an image the same color as the text and use that as the backgroud and the bots couldn't tell. Just gotta stay ahead of them and use what freedom they give you to be creative :) From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:32 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question I missed the little SWF trick that's being talked aboutbut I thought I saw something about redirects...which can kill your SEO...so I thought I'd double check and make sue this trick doesn't involve redirects on the home page of site?? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201090 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
correct! Same basis of how you have to do some extra work when making flash sites so the bots can get your content, just going the other direction. From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Search engine question I think what's happening here is (not knowing that much about how bots read Flash) that Dave is saying his .swf redirect method is not penalized by bots like redirects using other methods...right Dave? Rick -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question I missed the little SWF trick that's being talked aboutbut I thought I saw something about redirects...which can kill your SEO...so I thought I'd double check and make sue this trick doesn't involve redirects on the home page of site?? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201091 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
Ah...well there are other easier ways of having bot content to indexjust supply custom content based on user_agentas long as that content is not different from what's IN the Flash (i.e. not spamming the bots with extra content etc.)...then you can defend your use of this technique...but I may have missed something about the Dave's technique...just kickin in my 2 cents ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201092 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
I'm not saying its the best but it's not to bad actually and fairly easy to do. Cause you know how it goes, all your clients with no money want to be #1 in the engines but they cant afford to pay you to do it better or to have a pro do it, so this is what I do for them and it seems to work fairly well:) From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:47 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question Ah...well there are other easier ways of having bot content to indexjust supply custom content based on user_agentas long as that content is not different from what's IN the Flash (i.e. not spamming the bots with extra content etc.)...then you can defend your use of this technique...but I may have missed something about the Dave's technique...just kickin in my 2 cents ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201095 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Ontop of that, do you really want to trick your customers into going to a site thats of no relivance. What about if the flash swf fails or they can't load it? then what... I used to work for *one* of the worlds adult content providers, my job was to farm adult sites out to reap search engine / ecommerce rewards. Our strategy was like a solider based system, where we would create lots of this annoying crappy little websites all over the shop using geocities, anglefire and all that crap to link back to first tier domains, which were upsell sites. We would then populate these tier domains with more established content and so on until it went back to key / rich content based sites where the actual cc transactions would begin. I've seen some talented folk use tricks that have me giving mass-golf-claps as to how well they counter-acted it - yet i've seen yahoo / google pounce on them fast. Google prides itself on being a fairly clean / noiseless search engine so that if my kids search for Dallas they get results based on the city - not - DEBBIE DOES DALLAS FOR 98th time. Actualy relivant key words returning such results. any h00t be mindfull of who your traffic will be, and what risks you take in tricking bots. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:55:39 -0500, dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not saying its the best but it's not to bad actually and fairly easy to do. Cause you know how it goes, all your clients with no money want to be #1 in the engines but they cant afford to pay you to do it better or to have a pro do it, so this is what I do for them and it seems to work fairly well:) From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:47 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question Ah...well there are other easier ways of having bot content to indexjust supply custom content based on user_agentas long as that content is not different from what's IN the Flash (i.e. not spamming the bots with extra content etc.)...then you can defend your use of this technique...but I may have missed something about the Dave's technique...just kickin in my 2 cents ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201099 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
Not sure who that wa aimed at Scott...but if you were referring to my user agent suggestion: This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Read what I said again...I said: just supply custom content based on user_agentas long as that content is not different from what's IN the Flash (i.e. not spamming the bots with extra content etc.)... I didn't say DIFFERENT content...I said THE SAME...and you can argues that case if you get blacklisted If you meant Dave...then ignore me;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201100 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
I wasn't suggesting really doing anything that you mentioned. if you look at wills site he doesn't really have anywhere on the main page for content in the form of verbiage and if he did put all the content verbiage in there it sure would look funny! Partly it is a design flaw that a lot of clients want. I wasn't saying to break googles rules just to play inside of them. It's still the main page with relevant keywords and content verbiage, nothing out of line or out of character there at all but instead of having a click to continue button or an auto redirect, you just use a swf. Not all auto directs are bad but because they were over used they now are considered bad, so you just work around it. Basically the way the bots work are gunna penalize legit sites like Wills because they chose not to litter the index page with the content of the site like the bots want. From: Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:12 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201101 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
I think what you are saying is that if the user agent is a bot then you just serve them up a specific content page instead of the home page. which does have some advantages, until you hit a bot that doesn't register as a bot. If the client can afford it, it defiantly is a consideration. Again, I was saying what I did in reference to Wills site, I didn't even go into the rest of the pages and putting dynamic content into the titles and such.. From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:19 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question Not sure who that wa aimed at Scott...but if you were referring to my user agent suggestion: This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Read what I said again...I said: just supply custom content based on user_agentas long as that content is not different from what's IN the Flash (i.e. not spamming the bots with extra content etc.)... I didn't say DIFFERENT content...I said THE SAME...and you can argues that case if you get blacklisted If you meant Dave...then ignore me;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201102 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
I think what you are saying is that if the user agent is a bot then you just serve them up a specific content page instead of the home page. Not a seperate page...just bot specific content that mirrors the real content (and yes..Will's site is another matter). and if it's a bot you don't recognize it's probably not a big deal...as it's probably from some small potatoes engine/directory that isn't going to send your business into the stratosphere either way ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201103 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
I'm just thinking that at some point the bots will change as we find ways thru them they change, such is their history. Really you can be as creative as you want but just don't cross there do not cross lines. There is plenty of room to roam in the rules. From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:31 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question I think what you are saying is that if the user agent is a bot then you just serve them up a specific content page instead of the home page. Not a seperate page...just bot specific content that mirrors the real content (and yes..Will's site is another matter). .and if it's a bot you don't recognize it's probably not a big deal...as it's probably from some small potatoes engine/directory that isn't going to send your business into the stratosphere either way ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201104 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Search engine question
Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding method to be inappropriate under any circumstances. It amounts to the same thing as having a Site Map on a page which simply contains links to various parts of the site based on keywords/phrases that searchers are using, such as: Hinesville Real Estate Hinesville GA Real Estate Hinesville Georgia Real Estate Fort Stewart Real Estate Fort Stewart GA Real Estate Fort Stewart Georgia Real Estate While such an approach may not seem to make a lot of sense to a viewer who is unaware of why these variations would be on a page, which is to appeal to bots, I don't see how it would be considered unethical to include those variations on site map. Any thoughts on this? Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Ontop of that, do you really want to trick your customers into going to a site thats of no relivance. What about if the flash swf fails or they can't load it? then what... I used to work for *one* of the worlds adult content providers, my job was to farm adult sites out to reap search engine / ecommerce rewards. Our strategy was like a solider based system, where we would create lots of this annoying crappy little websites all over the shop using geocities, anglefire and all that crap to link back to first tier domains, which were upsell sites. We would then populate these tier domains with more established content and so on until it went back to key / rich content based sites where the actual cc transactions would begin. I've seen some talented folk use tricks that have me giving mass-golf-claps as to how well they counter-acted it - yet i've seen yahoo / google pounce on them fast. Google prides itself on being a fairly clean / noiseless search engine so that if my kids search for Dallas they get results based on the city - not - DEBBIE DOES DALLAS FOR 98th time. Actualy relivant key words returning such results. any h00t be mindfull of who your traffic will be, and what risks you take in tricking bots. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201109 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding method to be inappropriate under any circumstances. It amounts to the same thing as having a Site Map on a page which simply contains links to various parts of the site based on keywords/phrases that searchers are using, such as: Hinesville Real Estate Hinesville GA Real Estate Hinesville Georgia Real Estate Fort Stewart Real Estate Fort Stewart GA Real Estate Fort Stewart Georgia Real Estate While such an approach may not seem to make a lot of sense to a viewer who is unaware of why these variations would be on a page, which is to appeal to bots, I don't see how it would be considered unethical to include those variations on site map. Any thoughts on this? Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Ontop of that, do you really want to trick your customers into going to a site thats of no relivance. What about if the flash swf fails or they can't load it? then what... I used to work for *one* of the worlds adult content providers, my job was to farm adult sites out to reap search engine / ecommerce rewards. Our strategy was like a solider based system, where we would create lots of this annoying crappy little websites all over the shop using geocities, anglefire and all that crap to link back to first tier domains, which were upsell sites. We would then populate these tier domains with more established content and so on until it went back to key / rich content based sites where the actual cc transactions would begin. I've seen some talented folk use tricks that have me giving mass-golf-claps as to how well they counter-acted it - yet i've seen yahoo / google pounce on them fast. Google prides itself on being a fairly clean / noiseless search engine so that if my kids search for Dallas they get results based on the city - not - DEBBIE DOES DALLAS FOR 98th time. Actualy relivant key words returning such results. any h00t be mindfull of who your traffic will be, and what risks you take in tricking bots. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201114 Archives: http
Re: Search engine question
yep..but the index page is the jump off point...and the other internal pages must be relevant to the index page etcso it's a pretty important part of the puzzle ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com/54 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201115 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
Correct, but usually the other pages have a better amount of content available where a lot of home pages don't. From: Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:48 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding method to be inappropriate under any circumstances. It amounts to the same thing as having a Site Map on a page which simply contains links to various parts of the site based on keywords/phrases that searchers are using, such as: Hinesville Real Estate Hinesville GA Real Estate Hinesville Georgia Real Estate Fort Stewart Real Estate Fort Stewart GA Real Estate Fort Stewart Georgia Real Estate While such an approach may not seem to make a lot of sense to a viewer who is unaware of why these variations would be on a page, which is to appeal to bots, I don't see how it would be considered unethical to include those variations on site map. Any thoughts on this? Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Ontop of that, do you really want to trick your customers into going to a site thats of no relivance. What about if the flash swf fails or they can't load it? then what... I used to work for *one* of the worlds adult content providers, my job was to farm adult sites out to reap search engine / ecommerce rewards. Our strategy was like a solider based system, where we would create lots of this annoying crappy little websites all over the shop using geocities, anglefire and all that crap to link back to first tier domains, which were upsell sites. We would then populate these tier domains with more established content and so on until it went back to key / rich content based sites where the actual cc transactions would begin. I've seen some talented folk use tricks that have me giving mass-golf-claps as to how well they counter-acted it - yet i've seen yahoo / google pounce on them fast. Google prides itself on being a fairly clean / noiseless search engine so that if my kids search for Dallas they get results based on the city - not - DEBBIE DOES DALLAS FOR 98th time. Actualy relivant key words returning such results. any h00t be mindfull of who your traffic will be, and what risks you take in tricking bots
RE: Search engine question
Oh, certainly you're right, because various pages in my clients sites show up in the rankings...not just the index or home page. However, those other pages appear in the rankings when they actually have more relevant keywords/phrases searched for than the index or home page. I have one Real Estate broker who also sells insurance. When insurance is search for, the insurance page shows up in the rankings, but not the index or homepage...and that's the way I think it should be. The pages of the site seem to be ranked individually, rather than the site as a whole...again, which is the way I think it should be. I would hate to have to try to get all the keywords/phrases I need for some of the larger sites on the homepage! If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. But I wouldn't want a page like that on the site...it would appear to the viewer that the page had no content...that's as bad as some of the gateway pages I've seen. The copy is terrible for the human visitor, but great for the bot... Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding method to be inappropriate under any circumstances. It amounts to the same thing as having a Site Map on a page which simply contains links to various parts of the site based on keywords/phrases that searchers are using, such as: Hinesville Real Estate Hinesville GA Real Estate Hinesville Georgia Real Estate Fort Stewart Real Estate Fort Stewart GA Real Estate Fort Stewart Georgia Real Estate While such an approach may not seem to make a lot of sense to a viewer who is unaware of why these variations would be on a page, which is to appeal to bots, I don't see how it would be considered unethical to include those variations on site map. Any thoughts on this? Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors) and they then find you're hacking the bots, they blacklist you. Ontop of that, do you really want to trick your customers into going to a site thats of no relivance. What about if the flash swf fails or they can't load it? then what... I used to work for *one* of the worlds adult content providers, my job was to farm adult sites out
Re: Search engine question
Hrm, what about wrapping chunks of Text inside divs that have visible = false? Has anyone applied that technique aswell (now you all have be curious again on SOE) On Apr 1, 2005 12:25 PM, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, certainly you're right, because various pages in my clients sites show up in the rankings...not just the index or home page. However, those other pages appear in the rankings when they actually have more relevant keywords/phrases searched for than the index or home page. I have one Real Estate broker who also sells insurance. When insurance is search for, the insurance page shows up in the rankings, but not the index or homepage...and that's the way I think it should be. The pages of the site seem to be ranked individually, rather than the site as a whole...again, which is the way I think it should be. I would hate to have to try to get all the keywords/phrases I need for some of the larger sites on the homepage! If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. But I wouldn't want a page like that on the site...it would appear to the viewer that the page had no content...that's as bad as some of the gateway pages I've seen. The copy is terrible for the human visitor, but great for the bot... Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding method to be inappropriate under any circumstances. It amounts to the same thing as having a Site Map on a page which simply contains links to various parts of the site based on keywords/phrases that searchers are using, such as: Hinesville Real Estate Hinesville GA Real Estate Hinesville Georgia Real Estate Fort Stewart Real Estate Fort Stewart GA Real Estate Fort Stewart Georgia Real Estate While such an approach may not seem to make a lot of sense to a viewer who is unaware of why these variations would be on a page, which is to appeal to bots, I don't see how it would be considered unethical to include those variations on site map. Any thoughts on this? Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question This concerns me the most, you can trick the bots until you have a total monopoly on keywords. Yet, if someone reports you to google (and it happens) for hijacking traffic (only have to look at your competitors
Re: Search engine question
Search engines try to keep their methodologies close to the vest, but I have read some past talk about how search engines weight the relevant words in the domain name itself. That makes sense simply because one needs to keep the domain name within the realm of relevancy. Ken mentioned early on in the thread about the concept of spreading one's business over several sites, based on subcategories of products. Then inter-linking the sites. That is a good marketing strategy in itself simply because it is less noise to the site visitor. Domain names are inexpensive. That old idea of having a short domain name just doesn't fit anymore. For less than $30 bucks a year. Johndoestennisshop.com Johndoestennisballs.com Johndoestennisrackets.com Johndoestennisshoes.com Seems to offer advantages over something like the below Johndoestennisshop.com/rackets Johndoestennisshop.com/balls Johndoestennisshop.com/shoes Plus this gives more home pages to work with. Another 2 cents, Nick At 12:50 AM 4/1/2005, you wrote: Hrm, what about wrapping chunks of Text inside divs that have visible = false? Has anyone applied that technique aswell (now you all have be curious again on SOE) On Apr 1, 2005 12:25 PM, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, certainly you're right, because various pages in my clients sites show up in the rankings...not just the index or home page. However, those other pages appear in the rankings when they actually have more relevant keywords/phrases searched for than the index or home page. I have one Real Estate broker who also sells insurance. When insurance is search for, the insurance page shows up in the rankings, but not the index or homepage...and that's the way I think it should be. The pages of the site seem to be ranked individually, rather than the site as a whole...again, which is the way I think it should be. I would hate to have to try to get all the keywords/phrases I need for some of the larger sites on the homepage! If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. But I wouldn't want a page like that on the site...it would appear to the viewer that the page had no content...that's as bad as some of the gateway pages I've seen. The copy is terrible for the human visitor, but great for the bot... Rick -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Search engine question Correct me if i'm wrong and chances are it may be the case, but i think i remember reading that google doesn't base its ranking on index page alone. It weighs up the entire site and then asses its ranking capabilities. If you were to have a sitemap and it spiders that page and you *hide* that link from a user (by color if need be) then in fact you achieve the same results. I could be off on this one but thats what i interpreted from Google Hacks. eg: MossyBlog tends to have more hits show up based on relevant pages vs index? On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:19:14 -0500, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well...what you've stated is true and blacklisting is to be avoided at all costs...that being said, there's a different perspective that can be taken on using the Flash Forwarding approach. I believe you're writing from the perspective is that the method we're describing would utilize a page of content that is irrelevant to the actual site. If so, then, you're right...however... I do SEO for clients and think that the method can be used well, if the page that the bots are scanning, but the people can't read, does contain only relevant information. I do organic SEO as much as possible for clients as well as PPC, but it's difficult to work in a keyword/phrase the recommended 5-7 times on a page without offending the sensibilities of the reader. And, if you put every keyword/phrase 5-7 times for which you want to appear on search engines, you end up with really thick, mechanical copy. However, if you're writing copy only for the bots, they couldn't care less about whether or not the copy reads smoothly...they just check for the existence of keywords/phrases. So, the actual copy on the page that the person visiting the site doesn't read, but the bots do, can be heavy with repeated keywords/phrases that are completely relevant to the site content. I don't consider this approach unethical at all. I *would* consider any attempt to abuse keywords/phrases to bring traffic to a site which has nothing to do with the keywords/phrases a visitor actually uses to be completely unethical, whether the site had adult content or content about lawnmower maintenance. I don't see how Google could consider Flash Forwarding
Re: Search engine question
Search engines try to keep their methodologies close to the vest, but I have read some past talk about how search engines weight the relevant words in the domain name itself. That makes sense simply because one needs to keep the domain name within the realm of relevancy. Ken mentioned early on in the thread about the concept of spreading one's business over several sites, based on subcategories of products. Then inter-linking the sites. That is a good marketing strategy in itself simply because it is less noise to the site visitor. Domain names are inexpensive. That old idea of having a short domain name just doesn't fit anymore. For less than $30 bucks a year. Johndoestennisshop.com Johndoestennisballs.com Johndoestennisrackets.com Johndoestennisshoes.com Seems to offer advantages over something like the below Johndoestennisshop.com/rackets Johndoestennisshop.com/balls Johndoestennisshop.com/shoes Plus this gives more home pages to work with. Another 2 cents, Nick ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201147 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
re: Search engine question
No. Content is king - let me rephrase that CONTENT IS KING!! One reason cssp style sites are better for ranking is the clean design and easy access to the pages content, which brings us back to, Content Is King. The page title has more relevance than more urls, the only thing more url's will give you is more page links to the site but you would need several hundred thousands of them to make a difference, plus they may nail you for spamming the bots in which case, well lets just say you don't wanna do that! What's the url wilbergini? I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx.com/HowGoogleWorks.swf From: Will Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:38 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Search engine question Ok, don't pummel me for askin this one. I just know some of you will have the answer. On my volleyball apparel site, the client is asking about added domain names to help attract more people. If I were to use something volleyball-shorts.com as a domain name, would that add relevance to the site with Google? Thanks much, Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200887 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200891 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Search engine question
Do you like that nickname? haha Ok too start with you don't have any real content on the home page which is what is gunna really kill ya. Also use your image alts to give more info about the content because the engines will pick that up as page content. You also have enough java on there to run NASA ;) Content is king and you don't have any there so I'd start to figure out a way to get it there. One thing I used to do is make the index page and just fill it with content and then under that have a lil flash swf that redirects depending on if they have flash or not. And what that does is the engine bots will spyder the pages content and since the redirection is within the swf the bots won't pick up the redirect and penalize you. So when a visitor comes to the page it immiediately redirects them to a diff page and they never see the real index page thats been formated for content only. www.denveralumnaegpb.org has that. Basically it's a win win, without really cheating :) From: Will Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Search engine question What's the url wilbergini? abracadabra! www.winstoncourtsports.com I haven't read this yet but i threw it up 4 ya, http://www.jamwerx. com/HowGoogleWorks.swf Preeesh! This looks like good info! Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200895 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
