RE: 2007 Web Design Survey
Me? I LIKE writing code. -Original Message- From: Crow T. Robot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:13 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: 2007 Web Design Survey I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? On 10/18/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web Development, no, but move your way up a corporate chain into management, and you're getting closer... If your goal is to be a manager, there are probably easier ways to get there than becoming a web developer first. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the What's New PDF now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291555 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? On 10/18/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web Development, no, but move your way up a corporate chain into management, and you're getting closer... If your goal is to be a manager, there are probably easier ways to get there than becoming a web developer first. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291549 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
I was somewhat kidding. I don't (at this point) want to give up coding. I don't want to manage people I don't want to worry about other people's paychecks I actually don't want to worry about mine. I do like some of the technologist and business analysis work I am doing now, but I still prefer my week over 50% coding. I would miss the creative outlet without it. Even though the technologist work is creative in a different direction. I realize I will never buy a $300,000 boat on my salary, but I have friends that own them, and they are a pain. On 10/19/07, Crow T. Robot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we're all missing my point here. I enjoy writing code too, probably always will. But I still don't see myself being a coder for my whole career. Am I the only one who think that being a code monkey isn't the loftiest of career goals? I want more money, more responsibility, more benefits, more challenges, etc. I just don't see those things happening for me if I stay a coder my whole career. There's much more room for advancement (as in a CTO, like Dave here!) beyond the keyboard. And I'm not talking being a business manager, I'm talking IT-related management. ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291582 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: 2007 Web Design Survey
From the point of view of the small business sector and for-hire consulting and design groups, I could see how someone might see cold fusion and web design work as code monkey tasks. But, in your larger, more established IT departments, there are jobs you can only hold with a dozen years of design experience and the ability to work in/with large teams. For that matter, there are analyst and architect level positions which allow companies to recognize the the value of an experienced eye on a problem. Management is an entirely different job requiring minimal technical expertise if you have the intelligence to hire and trust in the strengths of the team you build. Unfortuantely, former techies tend to become poor managers for the very reason that they know too much about the task at hand and often step in to micromanage a solution. I don't think it should come as a surprize that a good number of technical people lack the interpersonal skills and patience for politics it takes to succeed in management. Moreover, many of these same people know this about themselves and choose not to have direct reports. In the end, what we all really do is provide solutions to problems. Young developers tend to live on the bleeding edge of technology solving every problem with an untested, new approach. That's what I'd call a code monkey. Good fortune, Richard Walters -Original Message- From: Bruce Sorge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: 2007 Web Design Survey I happen to know some damn good programmers in their 40's and 50's who are VERY content just being a code monkey. These guys have degrees/experience and could get management positions, but they don't want to. There is nothing wrong with being a worker bee all your life. Bruce Crow T. Robot wrote: I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291590 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
LOL Jochem. Jochem van Dieten wrote: http://www.navy.com/joinnow/ Jochem ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291602 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
well, hey, to each their own, whatever floats yer boat, etc. i'm on board with that. :) I'd prefer to make the most money, etc in my career, save lots of cash for retirement (the original poster's question, I think), and still code for the fun projects - like my NFL pool app I wrote about a month ago - on the side, spare time, hobby time, whatever. I thoroughly enjoy the creative outlet, and would never see myself dropping it completely. On 10/19/07, Bruce Sorge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I happen to know some damn good programmers in their 40's and 50's who are VERY content just being a code monkey. These guys have degrees/experience and could get management positions, but they don't want to. There is nothing wrong with being a worker bee all your life. Bruce Crow T. Robot wrote: I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291575 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
LMAO! Thanks, Eric Jochem van Dieten wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Bruce, Great response. I'm doing the same thing you're doing. I guess I just want to make that jump to a higher level beyond 9-5 and side jobs which is a great living. But I want to join those guys you see on their huge boat during the day wihc great tans after their month long vacation. http://www.navy.com/joinnow/ Jochem ~| ColdFusion 8 - Build next generation apps today, with easy PDF and Ajax features - download now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291573 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Bruce, Great response. I'm doing the same thing you're doing. I guess I just want to make that jump to a higher level beyond 9-5 and side jobs which is a great living. But I want to join those guys you see on their huge boat during the day wihc great tans after their month long vacation. http://www.navy.com/joinnow/ Jochem ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finderproductID=1522loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291558 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
I think we're all missing my point here. I enjoy writing code too, probably always will. But I still don't see myself being a coder for my whole career. Am I the only one who think that being a code monkey isn't the loftiest of career goals? I want more money, more responsibility, more benefits, more challenges, etc. I just don't see those things happening for me if I stay a coder my whole career. There's much more room for advancement (as in a CTO, like Dave here!) beyond the keyboard. And I'm not talking being a business manager, I'm talking IT-related management. On 10/19/07, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me? I LIKE writing code. -Original Message- From: Crow T. Robot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:13 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: 2007 Web Design Survey I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? On 10/18/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web Development, no, but move your way up a corporate chain into management, and you're getting closer... If your goal is to be a manager, there are probably easier ways to get there than becoming a web developer first. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291564 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
Me! I also like writing code. I do it in my spare time, too. (Especially when work is not as fun as it should be, and I need a creative release) My favorite time in the entire year is not Christmas or even my birthday, it is the 4 day weekend at Thanksgiving where I pick a single project, and code through the weekend (except for breaks for sit-down dinner on Thursday, and the touch football game Sat morning at the Junior High.) The rest of the time is me, my laptop, cable tv and leftovers. On 10/19/07, Crow T. Robot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291569 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
I happen to know some damn good programmers in their 40's and 50's who are VERY content just being a code monkey. These guys have degrees/experience and could get management positions, but they don't want to. There is nothing wrong with being a worker bee all your life. Bruce Crow T. Robot wrote: I don't see it so much a goal as a natural progression in one's career. Who wants to be a 50-60 year old code monkey? ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291560 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
I have only one but very strong response/opinion based on this survey. It just proves that this line of work has increased in the amount of knowledge required to do the job but the pay has been significantly descreased as the overall cost of living has increased dramtically. It no longer possible to contribute to 401k plans or save any of your salary unless you have a inexpensive mortgage and don't live near NYC, New England or California. It's abundantly clear to me that unless you want to live pay check to paycheck, you need to come up with a business idea that utlizes your skill sets and grow a business of your own. You could do Web consulting, but the survey doesn't show great results in that area. I'm talking about creating a unique product or service that people want and charge a small price and work on volume or if you idea is extremely hard to compete against, charge a premium for your product/service. There's more tax agvantages being in your own business. As an employee you spend your money after it's already been taxed. When you're in your own business, you spend your money related to your business, take the deductions and then pay taxes. You can write off your car payment, make it a company car, and expense meals, travel etc. This survey just solidifies the truth that no one get's rich enough to have an easy life while working for someone else unless you're an executive or are lucky and likeable to survive a pre-ipo and post ipo company and all the politics that goes along with a company's maturing process. I recently thought that there should be a union created for all Web related professionals or someone needs to unite the web workers of the world in the form of a franchise that utilizes a large cummunity of developers to complete projects in half the time a small shop would or an individual employee. It would become so cost effective for the customers, the international volume would seep back into this country and would benefit US based Web professionals. So go ahead, disagree, call me a bonehead, it's just one opinion. I think developers work very hard for their earnings and have high expectations. We're the gate keepers to the Web site world and I see us moving towards becoming a commoditity and it makes me sad. I hope you share some similar views and that I'm not just on my own osolated little planet. 8-) Discuss amongst yourselves. http://alistapart.com/articles/2007surveyresults/ Andy Matthews Senior ColdFusion Developer Office: 877.707.5467 x747 Direct: 615.627.9747 Fax: 615.467.6249 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dealerskins.com ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finderproductID=1522loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291430 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
While I agree with most of what you say, being self employed is not all that. I know, I have done it. It is fast or famine. I seem to recall several folks on this list who are self employed have gone through some great times and some bad times. Sure you get a shit load of tax breaks, but to me the smartest way to do it is how I do it now. I work full time for shit pay (I am in the public sector after all) but also do a lot of side work form home. I get the home office deduction, cell phone is a write-off, most of my utilities are as well as any software and computer upgrades I buy. It helps me out a lot for my annual tax goal to not pay the government ANYTHING other than the taxes I get taken out each month. I have successfully ran my business in the negative for over 5 years now and it is working out great. I always get a great return. I love my accountant. Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have only one but very strong response/opinion based on this survey. It just proves that this line of work has increased in the amount of knowledge required to do the job but the pay has been significantly descreased as the overall cost of living has increased dramtically. It no longer possible to contribute to 401k plans or save any of your salary unless you have a inexpensive mortgage and don't live near NYC, New England or California. It's abundantly clear to me that unless you want to live pay check to paycheck, you need to come up with a business idea that utlizes your skill sets and grow a business of your own. You could do Web consulting, but the survey doesn't show great results in that area. I'm talking about creating a unique product or service that people want and charge a small price and work on volume or if you idea is extremely hard to compete against, charge a premium for your product/service. There's more tax agvantages being in your own business. As an employee you spend your money after it's already been taxed. When you're in your own business, you spend your money related to your business, take the deductions and then pay taxes. You can write off your car payment, make it a company car, and expense meals, travel etc. This survey just solidifies the truth that no one get's rich enough to have an easy life while working for someone else unless you're an executive or are lucky and likeable to survive a pre-ipo and post ipo company and all the politics that goes along with a company's maturing process. I recently thought that there should be a union created for all Web related professionals or someone needs to unite the web workers of the world in the form of a franchise that utilizes a large cummunity of developers to complete projects in half the time a small shop would or an individual employee. It would become so cost effective for the customers, the international volume would seep back into this country and would benefit US based Web professionals. So go ahead, disagree, call me a bonehead, it's just one opinion. I think developers work very hard for their earnings and have high expectations. We're the gate keepers to the Web site world and I see us moving towards becoming a commoditity and it makes me sad. I hope you share some similar views and that I'm not just on my own osolated little planet. 8-) ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291445 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
Note that the vast majority of respondents said they've only been doing web development for 1 or 2 years, which will definitely skew the salary numbers down. On 10/18/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have only one but very strong response/opinion based on this survey. It just proves that this line of work has increased in the amount of knowledge required to do the job but the pay has been significantly descreased as the overall cost of living has increased dramtically. It no longer possible to contribute to 401k plans or save any of your salary unless you have a inexpensive mortgage and don't live near NYC, New England or California. It's abundantly clear to me that unless you want to live pay check to paycheck, you need to come up with a business idea that utlizes your skill sets and grow a business of your own. You could do Web consulting, but the survey doesn't show great results in that area. I'm talking about creating a unique product or service that people want and charge a small price and work on volume or if you idea is extremely hard to compete against, charge a premium for your product/service. There's more tax agvantages being in your own business. As an employee you spend your money after it's already been taxed. When you're in your own business, you spend your money related to your business, take the deductions and then pay taxes. You can write off your car payment, make it a company car, and expense meals, travel etc. This survey just solidifies the truth that no one get's rich enough to have an easy life while working for someone else unless you're an executive or are lucky and likeable to survive a pre-ipo and post ipo company and all the politics that goes along with a company's maturing process. I recently thought that there should be a union created for all Web related professionals or someone needs to unite the web workers of the world in the form of a franchise that utilizes a large cummunity of developers to complete projects in half the time a small shop would or an individual employee. It would become so cost effective for the customers, the international volume would seep back into this country and would benefit US based Web professionals. So go ahead, disagree, call me a bonehead, it's just one opinion. I think developers work very hard for their earnings and have high expectations. We're the gate keepers to the Web site world and I see us moving towards becoming a commoditity and it makes me sad. I hope you share some similar views and that I'm not just on my own osolated little planet. 8-) Discuss amongst yourselves. http://alistapart.com/articles/2007surveyresults/ Andy Matthews Senior ColdFusion Developer Office: 877.707.5467 x747 Direct: 615.627.9747 Fax: 615.467.6249 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dealerskins.com ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291441 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: 2007 Web Design Survey
So go ahead, disagree, call me a bonehead, it's just one opinion. I think developers work very hard for their earnings and have high expectations. We're the gate keepers to the Web site world and I see us moving towards becoming a commoditity and it makes me sad. I hope you share some similar views and that I'm not just on my own osolated little planet. 8-) I don't completely disagree with the points you made, but I think your points are based on a survey that is skewed. I believe that the survey was targeting web *design* professionals, not developers / engineers. Design professionals traditionally have lower salaries than engineers. That said, I completely agree with your statement regarding the erosion of web design professionals salary compared to the increase in skills necessary to perform the respective job, not to mention inflation. In regards to engineers, I believe that we are in a great position (both in terms of need and compensation) as most software engagements are utilizing the web to a large degree. Rich Kroll ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291457 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
Hey Bruce, Great response. I'm doing the same thing you're doing. I guess I just want to make that jump to a higher level beyond 9-5 and side jobs which is a great living. But I want to join those guys you see on their huge boat during the day wihc great tans after their month long vacation. I watched my Dad kill himself all his life working for other people and had nothing to show for it in the end. While I agree with most of what you say, being self employed is not all that. I know, I have done it. It is fast or famine. I seem to recall several folks on this list who are self employed have gone through some great times and some bad times. Sure you get a shit load of tax breaks, but to me the smartest way to do it is how I do it now. I work full time for shit pay (I am in the public sector after all) but also do a lot of side work form home. I get the home office deduction, cell phone is a write-off, most of my utilities are as well as any software and computer upgrades I buy. It helps me out a lot for my annual tax goal to not pay the government ANYTHING other than the taxes I get taken out each month. I have successfully ran my business in the negative for over 5 years now and it is working out great. I always get a great return. I love my accountant. Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291456 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: 2007 Web Design Survey
Making a living as an independent developer is becoming more difficult. As you stated, webapps are becoming more commoditized and what I can build for a $3,000 can now be purchased for $25 per month. I'm looking at trying to develop some turn-key apps that I can sell repeatedly and more cheaply. But I expected things to go this way. Most clients will go ugly and cheap before custom and relatively expensive. Rick It's abundantly clear to me that unless you want to live pay check to paycheck, you need to come up with a business idea that utlizes your skill sets and grow a business of your own. You could do Web consulting, but the survey doesn't show great results in that area. I'm talking about creating a unique product or service that people want and charge a small price and work on volume or if you idea is extremely hard to compete against, charge a premium for your product/service. ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finderproductID=1522loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291454 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
Web Development, no, but move your way up a corporate chain into management, and you're getting closer... On 10/18/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I want to join those guys you see on their huge boat during the day wihc great tans after their month long vacation. Then perhaps web development is not the field for you. Web development isn't hard enough to warrant that kind of paycheck, Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291465 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: 2007 Web Design Survey
But I want to join those guys you see on their huge boat during the day wihc great tans after their month long vacation. Then perhaps web development is not the field for you. Web development isn't hard enough to warrant that kind of paycheck, Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291462 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
Dave, Crow, So true, so true. I hope to have my business. I own microfuelcell.com which is an emerging technology for powering portable devices which is predicted to replace the latest battery technologies. There's just the age old issue of time and money to get the thing off the ground. http://www.tech.co.uk/gadgets/future-tech/news/water-powered-phones-coming-in-three-years?articleid=1524298136 Sorry for being off CF topic. Anyone want to come for a ride on my boat? lol Web Development, no, but move your way up a corporate chain into management, and you're getting closer... ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291472 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: 2007 Web Design Survey
Ever the optimist, eh Dave? Tell it to the guys who started Google. Seriously though, what is the American dream? To study hard, get a 'good' job, work yourself into the ground, and die an early death by heart failure before ever seeing your grandchildren born? No! We live in a free enterprise economy, something they continually fail to teach in the American educational system (and we're the only country that doesn't). This country was built upon people owning their own businesses, and the only ones who seem to understand this today or those immigrating to our country. You have to find your place. There is plenty of work for private contractors out there, and you see it roll in every day on the CF-Jobs list. And yes, those who come up with a great software package or service that can be resold, either in high volume or at premium pricing, are the ones who can really take things to new levels. I know one company that sells financial asset management and tracking software, that they originally wrote on top of CF 1, and those guys are doing just fine. The company that I work for (because I haven't hit on my great idea yet) designs websites for a very specific, targeted market. The company is good at what it does, it has laser like focus, provides terrific ROI for the client, and the guys who started the company are doing very well for themselves. Yes, web development by itself won't make your rich. Combining your talents with a business brain, defining a product or service for target markets, and building and refining something that people need, that is how you get to be a rich developer. Find a smart partner, with a business mind and an idea but no clue (mechanically) how to implement it. Or, work the mySQL route. Take a group of hot developers, write a killer open source app, build it out to the point where you have a free 'lite' version and a paid enterprise application, and sell support, maintenance, setup/installation, and training. My $.02 Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://blog.cutterscrossing.com The best way to predict the future is to help create it Dave Watts wrote: But I want to join those guys you see on their huge boat during the day wihc great tans after their month long vacation. Then perhaps web development is not the field for you. Web development isn't hard enough to warrant that kind of paycheck, Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291507 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: 2007 Web Design Survey
Web Development, no, but move your way up a corporate chain into management, and you're getting closer... If your goal is to be a manager, there are probably easier ways to get there than becoming a web developer first. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:291493 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
