RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
A good perspective, Dan. I'll most likely follow that path. I especially agree on the component aspect of packaged solutions...they tend to work well at first, but as requirements for functionality grow, code has to be manually tweaked and I end up writing much of the code myself. It was that way when I first learned ColdFusion. Thanks, Rick -Original Message- From: Dan G. Switzer, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:00 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick, So the question, becomes... spend a lot of time now learning to implement jQuery and Web 2.0 interfaces and functionality or wait for CF 8, see what it provides, and then just fill in any remaining gaps with third-party development? A couple of quick points: jQuery is more than just AJAX. There's also a lot in jQuery (animation effects, DOM manipulation, etc) that CF won't address. These are most likely things that you'll want to tie in to AJAX functionality. Almost all Web 2.0 UI finding I've read, say the same thing--and that's if you're updating partial content on the page, users like a subtle effect on the updated content to reflect the state change. When you write the code yourself (even w/using a library like jQuery) you have complete control over what's going to happen. Whatever AJAX enhancements that CF8 adds, it will still be geared towards to solving most problems, but it won't necessarily give you all the functionality you need. You may find that 95% of the time, it does everything you need, but what are you going to do when CF doesn't give you all the functionality you want? Well, if you just start now and begin developing a solutions, I think you'll find the following: * That once you understand how everything is working, it won't take you much more (if any more) time to write the same type of code that CF outputs for you, but you'll have 100% control over the behavior. * That if you need more functionality, you can add to your libraries and then it's always available to you in the future. -Dan ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274951 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Rick, So the question, becomes... spend a lot of time now learning to implement jQuery and Web 2.0 interfaces and functionality or wait for CF 8, see what it provides, and then just fill in any remaining gaps with third-party development? A couple of quick points: jQuery is more than just AJAX. There's also a lot in jQuery (animation effects, DOM manipulation, etc) that CF won't address. These are most likely things that you'll want to tie in to AJAX functionality. Almost all Web 2.0 UI finding I've read, say the same thing--and that's if you're updating partial content on the page, users like a subtle effect on the updated content to reflect the state change. When you write the code yourself (even w/using a library like jQuery) you have complete control over what's going to happen. Whatever AJAX enhancements that CF8 adds, it will still be geared towards to solving most problems, but it won't necessarily give you all the functionality you need. You may find that 95% of the time, it does everything you need, but what are you going to do when CF doesn't give you all the functionality you want? Well, if you just start now and begin developing a solutions, I think you'll find the following: * That once you understand how everything is working, it won't take you much more (if any more) time to write the same type of code that CF outputs for you, but you'll have 100% control over the behavior. * That if you need more functionality, you can add to your libraries and then it's always available to you in the future. -Dan ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274829 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Yep, but Apollo as a delivery mechanism and RIA just makes more sense imo. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: James Holmes To: CF-Talk Sent: Sun Apr 08 03:14:07 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Of course Flex is one of the primary development platforms for Apollo... On 4/8/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For sure, Flex has some kick ass neat stuff and I can see where it does make sense (if I look hard enough), but I think that Apollo as an RIA makes more sense than Flex delivered via the browser. IMO :-) -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274794 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
I think Flex is a better solution for developing desktop-like applications that have a requirement of broadband service or will be focused on internal networks (similar to client/server apps). For a typical consumer-oriented website where you need to accommodate for a variety of connection types and bandwidth requirements, Ajax is better suited and provides excellent features for providing desktop-like functionality. Flex applications can work pretty well without any more bandwidth than a typical web application. The big limitation is the requirement of Flash Player 9, and related to that the inability to run Flex applications without a standard desktop computer. Having worked extensively with the technologies used in building Web 2.0-style applications, I can tell you that they're far from band-aids and that HTML still rules supreme for web application development. I've worked extensively with those same technologies before anyone came up with names like AJAX and Web 2.0, and they are exactly that - band-aids. Of course, HTML still rules supreme for web application development, but that's not because it's a great fit for applications, it's because everyone has a browser. After about thirteen years, HTML applications are almost - but not quite - reaching the level of functionality of client-server applications built in Visual Basic 3! But, believe it or not, they still have a long way to go before they get there. Maybe in another few years, we'll be able to do the same stuff in HTML that we could in a typical desktop application in 1993. HTML and HTTP were not designed for applications. Making applications work in the HTML/HTTP model means throwing away lots of functionality that is taken for granted in other environments. Attempts to redress that, like XmlHTTPRequest (and hidden frames, gif pipes, etc) are, for all intents and purposes, band-aids. I'm not saying you shouldn't use them - HTML and HTTP are the current standards for application delivery, and anything you can do to improve that medium is a good idea. But it still sucks, comparatively speaking, and we should all hope to see something fundamentally better in the future. There's no reason why Flex can't be that fundamentally better thing. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274796 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Hi Dave, Flex applications can work pretty well without any more bandwidth than a typical web application. The big limitation is the requirement of Flash Player 9, and related to that the inability to run Flex applications without a standard desktop computer. I'll try that out with ScrapBlog and see how it performs. I'm really interested in seeing how it does as that would help me form a better opinion. I've worked extensively with those same technologies before anyone came up with names like AJAX and Web 2.0, and they are exactly that - band-aids. I guess we'll disagree on this. The evolution of libraries such as jQuery, Dojo YUI! have made development using these technologies far too easy and with the adoption rates continuing to climb, I can't call them band-aids. Perhaps thats what they were when people initially did remote scripting before it was called Ajax but there's just too much good technology out there now to call it a band-aid. Of course, HTML still rules supreme for web application development, but that's not because it's a great fit for applications, it's because everyone has a browser. After about thirteen years, HTML applications are almost - but not quite - reaching the level of functionality of client-server applications built in Visual Basic 3! But, believe it or not, they still have a long way to go before they get there. Maybe in another few years, we'll be able to do the same stuff in HTML that we could in a typical desktop application in 1993. I absolutely agree on this point. Having developed enterprise-level client/server applications using PowerBuilder for almost 8 years, I'm keenly aware of how much more power a true client/server development tool can provide. I also don't believe that the browser should be the platform for a complete RIA solution nor do I believe that Ajax and related technologies are the technologies to build those types of applications. If you need to build a desktop application, then use desktop development tools such as MS' suite of .Net tools. I'm still not convinced that even Flex can compare to a true desktop development tool but I'll reserve my opinion until I've had some time to develop in it. From what I've seen to date though, I'm not sold. HTML and HTTP were not designed for applications. Making applications work in the HTML/HTTP model means throwing away lots of functionality that is taken for granted in other environments. Attempts to redress that, like XmlHTTPRequest (and hidden frames, gif pipes, etc) are, for all intents and purposes, band-aids. Again, we'll disagree. Read my first paragraph. I'm not saying you shouldn't use them - HTML and HTTP are the current standards for application delivery, and anything you can do to improve that medium is a good idea. But it still sucks, comparatively speaking, and we should all hope to see something fundamentally better in the future. There's no reason why Flex can't be that fundamentally better thing. Until broadband becomes more pervasive, I don't see how Flex, OpenLazlo and related heavy RIA technologies, can fill the need. The US lags tremendously in overall broadband penetration and thats a serious consideration. Here's an article I picked up earlier this year: http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=197006038 Its not to say that these tools don't offer a tremendous rich suite of functionality. I'm just not convinced that at this stage that these tools are the right tools for building sites to cater to a consumer-driven Internet. Stats show that 80% of active US users use broadband and thats a very good thing. But I have customers that cannot afford to bypass that other 20% and as a developer, I'm not inclined to prevent my customers from reaching that 20%. Again, this is case-by-case and there may be times when a client doesn't care about those 20% but I've yet to run into that. Rey... ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274797 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Or Apollo. That's the whole point of it; freeing internet technologies from the restrictions of the browser. On 4/8/07, Rey Bango [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you need to build a desktop application, then use desktop development tools such as MS' suite of .Net tools. I'm still not convinced that even Flex can compare to a true desktop development tool but I'll reserve my opinion until I've had some time to develop in it. From what I've seen to date though, I'm not sold. -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274798 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
I guess we'll disagree on this. The evolution of libraries such as jQuery, Dojo YUI! have made development using these technologies far too easy and with the adoption rates continuing to climb, I can't call them band-aids. Perhaps thats what they were when people initially did remote scripting before it was called Ajax but there's just too much good technology out there now to call it a band-aid. The fact that it's easy to do AJAX development is irrelevant. The fact is that HTML and HTTP weren't designed to deliver applications, and no matter how good your libraries are, they can't fix the limitations inherent in HTML and HTTP. Let me know when you can do client push, or database concurrency management, or anything else that you can take for granted in a traditional client-server environment. And I'm not talking about hacks to simulate those things - I already know those intimately - but the things themselves. I absolutely agree on this point. Having developed enterprise-level client/server applications using PowerBuilder for almost 8 years, I'm keenly aware of how much more power a true client/server development tool can provide. I also don't believe that the browser should be the platform for a complete RIA solution nor do I believe that Ajax and related technologies are the technologies to build those types of applications. If you need to build a desktop application, then use desktop development tools such as MS' suite of .Net tools. Why shouldn't we be able to have that sort of power with distributed multiuser applications? There is no reason, other than inertia, why we can't. Until broadband becomes more pervasive, I don't see how Flex, OpenLazlo and related heavy RIA technologies, can fill the need. I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use AJAX, or HTML, or anything else. I'm not saying that you should immediately rewrite everything in Flex. What I am saying, is that HTML is a fundamentally flawed delivery mechanism for applications, and that ultimately we should be looking for a replacement (perhaps Flex) rather than an incremental improvement (AJAX). That said, Flex applications can perform reasonably well even with relatively slow connections. I should know, since I often use a slow connection (my cell phone as a modem) for all sorts of things. 1xRTT is a little faster than dialup, not much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274800 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Why shouldn't we be able to have that sort of power with distributed multiuser applications? There is no reason, other than inertia, why we can't. Who says we don't? The apps that I built back in the early 90's worked quite well across the Enterprise even before the Internet became pervasive and leased lines were the main method of connecting between two points. .Net continues to fill that need quite well. I guess I would want a real business case for using something like Flex over .Net for a desktop application. I'm really willing to understand and I know you're one of the best out there so give me some details. I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use AJAX, or HTML, or anything else. I'm not saying that you should immediately rewrite everything in Flex. What I am saying, is that HTML is a fundamentally flawed delivery mechanism for applications, and that ultimately we should be looking for a replacement (perhaps Flex) rather than an incremental improvement (AJAX). Gotcha. I think understand what you're saying now and I think that's basically what I said when I stated nor do I believe that Ajax and related technologies are the technologies to build those types of applications. I see the slew of JS libraries as offering a nice suite of tools to progressively enhance web applications and I think a lot of them do provide for some fairly good desktop-like experiences but I don't see them as a replacement for desktop apps. When I develop using JS/DOM/Ajax etc, I don't go in trying to build a desktop app. I go in trying to enhance the user's web experience which I think these tools are really good for. That said, Flex applications can perform reasonably well even with relatively slow connections. I should know, since I often use a slow connection (my cell phone as a modem) for all sorts of things. 1xRTT is a little faster than dialup, not much. Send me a link to one of your Flex apps and I'll try it out via a cell phone and a dialup connection. I really would like to see the performance. Depending on what I see, that may actually help me believe more in a technology like Flex than hearing that http html are flawed delivery mechanisms. As you suggested, they weren't designed to build the next generation RIAs but they are serving that purpose at the moment and in many cases, quite successfully. But if Flex or OpenLazlo can better handle those needs while not forcing sites to shun 20% of online users, then I can see the value. Rey... ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274809 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
HTTP can carry any message that I can imagine, thus it can be the delivery mechanism for any language to express an RIA. The only argument that makes sense is that the _browser_ is an inefficient mechanism for delivering RIA as opposed to Flex. Regarding Flex, I hate compiling things when building apps. I work incrementally and it drives me nuts. - Original Message From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2007 9:57:18 AM Subject: RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? I guess we'll disagree on this. The evolution of libraries such as jQuery, Dojo YUI! have made development using these technologies far too easy and with the adoption rates continuing to climb, I can't call them band-aids. Perhaps thats what they were when people initially did remote scripting before it was called Ajax but there's just too much good technology out there now to call it a band-aid. The fact that it's easy to do AJAX development is irrelevant. The fact is that HTML and HTTP weren't designed to deliver applications, and no matter how good your libraries are, they can't fix the limitations inherent in HTML and HTTP. Let me know when you can do client push, or database concurrency management, or anything else that you can take for granted in a traditional client-server environment. And I'm not talking about hacks to simulate those things - I already know those intimately - but the things themselves. I absolutely agree on this point. Having developed enterprise-level client/server applications using PowerBuilder for almost 8 years, I'm keenly aware of how much more power a true client/server development tool can provide. I also don't believe that the browser should be the platform for a complete RIA solution nor do I believe that Ajax and related technologies are the technologies to build those types of applications. If you need to build a desktop application, then use desktop development tools such as MS' suite of .Net tools. Why shouldn't we be able to have that sort of power with distributed multiuser applications? There is no reason, other than inertia, why we can't. Until broadband becomes more pervasive, I don't see how Flex, OpenLazlo and related heavy RIA technologies, can fill the need. I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use AJAX, or HTML, or anything else. I'm not saying that you should immediately rewrite everything in Flex. What I am saying, is that HTML is a fundamentally flawed delivery mechanism for applications, and that ultimately we should be looking for a replacement (perhaps Flex) rather than an incremental improvement (AJAX). That said, Flex applications can perform reasonably well even with relatively slow connections. I should know, since I often use a slow connection (my cell phone as a modem) for all sorts of things. 1xRTT is a little faster than dialup, not much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274810 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
No harm in learning the ins and outs now, as undoubtedly the Adobe integration will hand feed the developer and when you need to something more advanced you will be pinging lists asking how (which of course is what lists are for) An hour or so would familiarise you with Ajax development to a degree, you could see it as your duty to know at least the basics before you let Adobe make it all tag based and easy for you... This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 14:31:31 2007 Subject: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Hi, all.. Just wanted to throw this out for some perspective. For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. However, dealing with javascript was just going to take more time than I could spare and keep up with project demands, since I have no experience with it. Along comes jQuery, and it's straightforward enough that I can probably make it work without it becoming like a second job taking up so much time. But with CF 8 right around the corner, integrating Ajax into the tag code ( I hope ), working with Ajax development will become much easier and part of my CF 8 development instead of an add-on through a js library like jQuery. So the question, becomes... spend a lot of time now learning to implement jQuery and Web 2.0 interfaces and functionality or wait for CF 8, see what it provides, and then just fill in any remaining gaps with third-party development? Thanks for the perspective... Rick ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274763 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Rick Faircloth wrote: For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. why not flex? ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274765 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Coz it's rubbish :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Paul Hastings To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 15:22:14 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick Faircloth wrote: For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. why not flex? ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274766 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
If by rubbish you mean the most productive way to produce a rich internet app, then sure, I'm in agreement :-) Flex and AJAX both have their place and they can both be very uselful - they can even work with one another using the Flex-AJAX bridge. On 4/7/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Coz it's rubbish :-) -Original Message- From: Paul Hastings To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 15:22:14 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick Faircloth wrote: For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. why not flex? -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274767 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
I guess Flex is an option, but I've tried working with Flash with every version that has come out, and I've hated working with the Flash timeline. It's not that I'm unfamiliar with timelines... I've been using them edit video for the past 12 years. I just found the Flash interface to be unintuitive and difficult to use to accomplish much. That said, I realize that Flex has a different interface, which is the only reason why I would even consider it. And there also the face that I have to pay a minimum of $500 to even get in the game... not a killer, but if I'm already purchasing CF 8... Rick -Original Message- From: Paul Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick Faircloth wrote: For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. why not flex? ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274768 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Rick, Neil said it perfectly. Its good to know the ins and outs of Ajax but more specifically, DOM manipulation. Ajax functionality is a very small aspect of what everyone regards as Web 2.0-style development and whether you're using jQuery, Prototype or whatever CF8 provides, you need to familiarize yourself with how to work with the DOM. Since I'm part of the CF8 beta, one thing I can say is that what you learn with jQuery will not be wasted when you use CF8. Rey... Rick Faircloth wrote: Hi, all.. Just wanted to throw this out for some perspective. For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. However, dealing with javascript was just going to take more time than I could spare and keep up with project demands, since I have no experience with it. Along comes jQuery, and it's straightforward enough that I can probably make it work without it becoming like a second job taking up so much time. But with CF 8 right around the corner, integrating Ajax into the tag code ( I hope ), working with Ajax development will become much easier and part of my CF 8 development instead of an add-on through a js library like jQuery. So the question, becomes... spend a lot of time now learning to implement jQuery and Web 2.0 interfaces and functionality or wait for CF 8, see what it provides, and then just fill in any remaining gaps with third-party development? Thanks for the perspective... Rick ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274769 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Flex and AJAX both have their place and they can both be very uselful - they can even work with one another using the Flex-AJAX bridge. Yep, very true. The only thing that Adobe has not effectively done is clarify when either technology should be used. I really think that needs to be addressed so that developers can make correct architectural decisions for their applications and customers. Rey... ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274770 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Rick Faircloth wrote: I guess Flex is an option, but I've tried working with Flash with every version that has come out, and I've hated working with the Flash timeline. the timeline has gone bye-bye as far as flex is concerned. why I would even consider it. And there also the face that I have to pay a minimum of $500 to even get in the game... not a killer, but if I'm already everything is free except for the flex builder you can use that for 30 days to see how it fits i know somebody (named tom ;-) will likely tell you that you don't even need that to do flex. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274771 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Let's not get into the who loves Flex debate :-) I'm not a fan of Flex for sure, it has it's place but for apps in a browsernah. Roll on Apollo :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: James Holmes To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 16:08:47 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? If by rubbish you mean the most productive way to produce a rich internet app, then sure, I'm in agreement :-) Flex and AJAX both have their place and they can both be very uselful - they can even work with one another using the Flex-AJAX bridge. On 4/7/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Coz it's rubbish :-) -Original Message- From: Paul Hastings To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 15:22:14 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick Faircloth wrote: For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. why not flex? -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274772 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
And Rey said it perfectly. The vanilla toucher of Ajax wants it like CFML - all fluffy like, it's not and you need to learn/know JS to a degree (well any web developer should know at least the most basic DOM manipulation and JS). This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Rey Bango To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 16:37:11 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick, Neil said it perfectly. Its good to know the ins and outs of Ajax but more specifically, DOM manipulation. Ajax functionality is a very small aspect of what everyone regards as Web 2.0-style development and whether you're using jQuery, Prototype or whatever CF8 provides, you need to familiarize yourself with how to work with the DOM. Since I'm part of the CF8 beta, one thing I can say is that what you learn with jQuery will not be wasted when you use CF8. Rey... Rick Faircloth wrote: Hi, all.. Just wanted to throw this out for some perspective. For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. However, dealing with javascript was just going to take more time than I could spare and keep up with project demands, since I have no experience with it. Along comes jQuery, and it's straightforward enough that I can probably make it work without it becoming like a second job taking up so much time. But with CF 8 right around the corner, integrating Ajax into the tag code ( I hope ), working with Ajax development will become much easier and part of my CF 8 development instead of an add-on through a js library like jQuery. So the question, becomes... spend a lot of time now learning to implement jQuery and Web 2.0 interfaces and functionality or wait for CF 8, see what it provides, and then just fill in any remaining gaps with third-party development? Thanks for the perspective... Rick ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274773 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Dreamweaver CS3 will have SPRY built in... ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274774 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Indeed, though as noted, it will be spoon feeding and nothing beats just knowing what is going on under the hood. How feature complete/full will Spry be in comparison to other FWs? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Casey Dougall To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 18:33:04 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Dreamweaver CS3 will have SPRY built in... ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274775 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
And to be fair, how many of us actually still use DW now :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Casey Dougall To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 18:33:04 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Dreamweaver CS3 will have SPRY built in... ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274776 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
-Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Hi, all.. Just wanted to throw this out for some perspective. For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. However, dealing with javascript was just going to take more time than I could spare and keep up with project demands, since I have no experience with it. The great thing is that experience with JavaScript just isn't wasted. +) The same language (ecmaScript) forms the basis of MANY scripting tools. Flash ActionScript, Windows Scripting Host, CFScript, jscript.net, SilkScript, LoadRunner Script, etc. You can use it as an alternate language to VB for Applications and most OSes can be scripted using a version (WSH or jscript.net for windows, JavaScript OSA for Mac, and one whose name I can't remember for *nix). This shouldn't be underestimated. There are just SO MANY things that are easy to pick up once you know JavaScript well. Even really unusual or suprising things - for example using SQL Server 2005 you can actually write Stored Procedures using jscript.net. You can easily script Windows Media Player (or Office or CorelDraw or any of many others). In many cases functionality is directly transferable between implementations (as long as you segment core functionality from implementation specific elements). For example I built a simple countdown timer in JavaScript for a web page. That countdown timer, with no modifications works perfectly in Flash. Same for most of my Date and time utilities. +) The basic syntax is very similar to common OO languages like Java and C++. Learning JavaScript doesn't mean you know Java, but knowing it does mean you can generally figure out what's going on. Moving to Java (as I am now) is incredibly painful, but knowing JavaScript has made the transition easier (and, to be fair, more difficult in some specific areas, but overall it's been greatly beneficial). I guess all I'm saying is the however you get into it - via JQuery, some other library or just noodling around - don't discount JavaScript as a one trick pony only worth picking up to enhance your web forms. Although of course it's really, REALLY good at that. ;^) There's a lot of bang for the buck in learning JavaScript - AJAX is only one of many perks. Jim Davis ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274777 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
I have a question about that Rey. Will Adobe allow you to specify your library of choice or will we be force-fed the bloated Spry library? andy -Original Message- From: Rey Bango [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:37 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Rick, Neil said it perfectly. Its good to know the ins and outs of Ajax but more specifically, DOM manipulation. Ajax functionality is a very small aspect of what everyone regards as Web 2.0-style development and whether you're using jQuery, Prototype or whatever CF8 provides, you need to familiarize yourself with how to work with the DOM. Since I'm part of the CF8 beta, one thing I can say is that what you learn with jQuery will not be wasted when you use CF8. Rey... Rick Faircloth wrote: Hi, all.. Just wanted to throw this out for some perspective. For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. However, dealing with javascript was just going to take more time than I could spare and keep up with project demands, since I have no experience with it. Along comes jQuery, and it's straightforward enough that I can probably make it work without it becoming like a second job taking up so much time. But with CF 8 right around the corner, integrating Ajax into the tag code ( I hope ), working with Ajax development will become much easier and part of my CF 8 development instead of an add-on through a js library like jQuery. So the question, becomes... spend a lot of time now learning to implement jQuery and Web 2.0 interfaces and functionality or wait for CF 8, see what it provides, and then just fill in any remaining gaps with third-party development? Thanks for the perspective... Rick ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274780 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
I guess Flex is an option, but I've tried working with Flash with every version that has come out, and I've hated working with the Flash timeline. It's not that I'm unfamiliar with timelines... I've been using them edit video for the past 12 years. I just found the Flash interface to be unintuitive and difficult to use to accomplish much. Flex development is quite distinct, and different, from Flash development. They share a common language (ActionScript), but that's about it. I know nothing about how to develop in Flash, but am a competent Flex developer. Flex development is more like Visual Basic or PowerBuilder development in many ways - it's traditional forms-based development. That said, I realize that Flex has a different interface, which is the only reason why I would even consider it. And there also the face that I have to pay a minimum of $500 to even get in the game... not a killer, but if I'm already purchasing CF 8... You can download the trial version for free. If you can't recoup your investment in a Flex IDE (and frankly, more importantly, the time it takes you to learn something new), you should be able to find out fairly quickly with the trial. And finally, Flex is a much better solution for applications than AJAX, which is a collection of band-aids applied to the sucking wound that is HTML interface development. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274781 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
And finally, Flex is a much better solution for applications than AJAX, which is a collection of band-aids applied to the sucking wound that is HTML interface development. In your opinion :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 22:16:44 2007 Subject: RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? I guess Flex is an option, but I've tried working with Flash with every version that has come out, and I've hated working with the Flash timeline. It's not that I'm unfamiliar with timelines... I've been using them edit video for the past 12 years. I just found the Flash interface to be unintuitive and difficult to use to accomplish much. Flex development is quite distinct, and different, from Flash development. They share a common language (ActionScript), but that's about it. I know nothing about how to develop in Flash, but am a competent Flex developer. Flex development is more like Visual Basic or PowerBuilder development in many ways - it's traditional forms-based development. That said, I realize that Flex has a different interface, which is the only reason why I would even consider it. And there also the face that I have to pay a minimum of $500 to even get in the game... not a killer, but if I'm already purchasing CF 8... You can download the trial version for free. If you can't recoup your investment in a Flex IDE (and frankly, more importantly, the time it takes you to learn something new), you should be able to find out fairly quickly with the trial. And finally, Flex is a much better solution for applications than AJAX, which is a collection of band-aids applied to the sucking wound that is HTML interface development. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274784 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: And finally, Flex is a much better solution for applications than AJAX, which is a collection of band-aids applied to the sucking wound that is HTML interface development. In your opinion :-) ditto for yours that flex isn't so hot. we've done a lot of 'ajax' before we knew it was ajax (way back when we had to manage all the versions cross-browser stuff ourselves), we find flex to be a better all round solution for most of the stuff we build (the exception of course being locales w/an RTL writing system). and using it w/cf is drop dead simple. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274785 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
For sure, Flex has some kick ass neat stuff and I can see where it does make sense (if I look hard enough), but I think that Apollo as an RIA makes more sense than Flex delivered via the browser. IMO :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Paul Hastings To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 07 21:47:24 2007 Subject: Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: And finally, Flex is a much better solution for applications than AJAX, which is a collection of band-aids applied to the sucking wound that is HTML interface development. In your opinion :-) ditto for yours that flex isn't so hot. we've done a lot of 'ajax' before we knew it was ajax (way back when we had to manage all the versions cross-browser stuff ourselves), we find flex to be a better all round solution for most of the stuff we build (the exception of course being locales w/an RTL writing system). and using it w/cf is drop dead simple. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274786 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Thanks for the perspective, Jim... -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later? Hi, all.. Just wanted to throw this out for some perspective. For a few years I've been wanting to get in on the Ajax-style development. However, dealing with javascript was just going to take more time than I could spare and keep up with project demands, since I have no experience with it. The great thing is that experience with JavaScript just isn't wasted. +) The same language (ecmaScript) forms the basis of MANY scripting tools. Flash ActionScript, Windows Scripting Host, CFScript, jscript.net, SilkScript, LoadRunner Script, etc. You can use it as an alternate language to VB for Applications and most OSes can be scripted using a version (WSH or jscript.net for windows, JavaScript OSA for Mac, and one whose name I can't remember for *nix). This shouldn't be underestimated. There are just SO MANY things that are easy to pick up once you know JavaScript well. Even really unusual or suprising things - for example using SQL Server 2005 you can actually write Stored Procedures using jscript.net. You can easily script Windows Media Player (or Office or CorelDraw or any of many others). In many cases functionality is directly transferable between implementations (as long as you segment core functionality from implementation specific elements). For example I built a simple countdown timer in JavaScript for a web page. That countdown timer, with no modifications works perfectly in Flash. Same for most of my Date and time utilities. +) The basic syntax is very similar to common OO languages like Java and C++. Learning JavaScript doesn't mean you know Java, but knowing it does mean you can generally figure out what's going on. Moving to Java (as I am now) is incredibly painful, but knowing JavaScript has made the transition easier (and, to be fair, more difficult in some specific areas, but overall it's been greatly beneficial). I guess all I'm saying is the however you get into it - via JQuery, some other library or just noodling around - don't discount JavaScript as a one trick pony only worth picking up to enhance your web forms. Although of course it's really, REALLY good at that. ;^) There's a lot of bang for the buck in learning JavaScript - AJAX is only one of many perks. Jim Davis ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274787 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
Of course Flex is one of the primary development platforms for Apollo... On 4/8/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For sure, Flex has some kick ass neat stuff and I can see where it does make sense (if I look hard enough), but I think that Apollo as an RIA makes more sense than Flex delivered via the browser. IMO :-) -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274789 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: A Question for Development: Ajax Now or Ajax Later?
And finally, Flex is a much better solution for applications than AJAX, which is a collection of band-aids applied to the sucking wound that is HTML interface development. I think Flex is a better solution for developing desktop-like applications that have a requirement of broadband service or will be focused on internal networks (similar to client/server apps). For a typical consumer-oriented website where you need to accommodate for a variety of connection types and bandwidth requirements, Ajax is better suited and provides excellent features for providing desktop-like functionality. Having worked extensively with the technologies used in building Web 2.0-style applications, I can tell you that they're far from band-aids and that HTML still rules supreme for web application development. Rey... ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274790 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
