Re: Architecture thoughts
On Tuesday 09 August 2005 18:32, Dawson, Michael wrote:
We are currently working on a small project to test AJAX feasibility for
us. We found that it is a great deal of work compared to simple page
I've got a simple wrapper JS function that goes around the Sarissa crosbrowser
xmlHttpRequest, and allows me to say
xmlDoc=makeRequest('getUserDetails','userid=32');
This is translated inside makeRequest into a HTTP form post.
The wrapper handles all the client-side error reporting and traps.
The wrapper calls a single server-side .cfm page,which basically acts as a
fusebox/switch, and returns empty strong or an xml doc. Errors are trapped
and logged, as well as passed back to the client for display.
This makes it very, very easy, and fast.
I'm hopefully going to get a chance to write up some details in my blog today.
--
Tom Chiverton
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer
~|
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Re: Architecture thoughts
On Monday 08 August 2005 23:34, Marlon Moyer wrote: ability to use flash, html, ajax,etc. I was thinking about creating all of the business logic as a set of web services. Any thoughts, Pitfall- web services are slow to execute, certainly much slower than an Ajax post/get. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214121 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Architecture thoughts
On Monday 08 August 2005 23:34, Marlon Moyer wrote: ability to use flash, html, ajax,etc. I was thinking about creating all of the business logic as a set of web services. Any thoughts, Pitfall- web services are slow to execute, certainly much slower than an Ajax post/get. I thought AJAX apps generally used webservices to fetch their data... isn't that the reason they use the XmlHttpRequest object? (and the reason why X ended up in the acronym). s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214170 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Architecture thoughts
On Tuesday 09 August 2005 15:49, S. Isaac Dealey wrote: I thought AJAX apps generally used webservices to fetch their data... isn't that the reason they use the XmlHttpRequest object? (and the reason why X ended up in the acronym). In the context of having to submit a form, run the webservice server-side, and return a new page, a native Ajax request will be much faster. 'Course, you then have to expose your webservices to the world, which has security concerns... That's what I meant. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214173 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Architecture thoughts
On Tuesday 09 August 2005 15:49, S. Isaac Dealey wrote: I thought AJAX apps generally used webservices to fetch their data... isn't that the reason they use the XmlHttpRequest object? (and the reason why X ended up in the acronym). In the context of having to submit a form, run the webservice server-side, and return a new page, a native Ajax request will be much faster. 'Course, you then have to expose your webservices to the world, which has security concerns... That's what I meant. I must have missed the context 'cause I'm still lost. but okay. :) s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214177 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Architecture thoughts
I rarely use web services, instead preferring to just use GET and POST operations. The XmlHttpRequest object was designed for fetching remote XML, but it's really nothing more than an HttpRequest object, and can be used as such. There's some XML-related stuff, but at the core is just simple HTTP. If you're doing complex data passing, web services are very helpful, particularly the ability to have multiple typed parameters and complex data that is automatically marshalled/unmarshalled for you, but for simpler stuff, GET and POST are more than adequate. Web services also have a fairly high spin-up cost for parsing the WSDL and making the stubs and stuff. Not a big deal if you have a single page UI that does everything dynamically, but if you're still switching pages and just doing dynamic things within those pages, that cost can be prohibitive. Since GET/POST don't require any of that, they don't have any initialization cost except making an HTTP connection (something browsers are good at), and are therefore ridiculously fast. cheers, barneyb On 8/9/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought AJAX apps generally used webservices to fetch their data... isn't that the reason they use the XmlHttpRequest object? (and the reason why X ended up in the acronym). s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 360.319.6145 http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 50 invites. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214193 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Architecture thoughts
We are currently working on a small project to test AJAX feasibility for us. We found that it is a great deal of work compared to simple page refreshes. However, the stuff is very cool and has some great potential. We do not use web services, so to speak. I created a simple page that returns an XML packet to the AJAX request. Simple and very effective. M!ke -Original Message- From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 9:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Architecture thoughts On Monday 08 August 2005 23:34, Marlon Moyer wrote: ability to use flash, html, ajax,etc. I was thinking about creating all of the business logic as a set of web services. Any thoughts, Pitfall- web services are slow to execute, certainly much slower than an Ajax post/get. I thought AJAX apps generally used webservices to fetch their data... isn't that the reason they use the XmlHttpRequest object? (and the reason why X ended up in the acronym). ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214217 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Architecture thoughts
Have to second this one. Just like Flash, building DHTML/JS Remoting apps is a lot of work. If you've got a large HTML-based UI already, however, there are often places where some simple remoting calls can make a HUGE difference in percieved performance and user friendliness. As an example, a page where you have a list of items that you can check one or more, and the do something to them. You often want to do multiple actions to the same set of items, and if you perform the action behind the scenes, the user can just call each action in sequence without waiting for page refreshes or having to recheck the items. Another place is form validation for stuff that can only be validated server-side. For example, uniqueness of incoming usernames. Ordinarily you check for the presence of a value with JS, and then submit to the server for the unqueness check, and possibly return the user to the form to pick a different (unique) username. With a JS Remoting call, you can make that uniqueness check as part of the JS validation. Still have to check server-side, of course, but doing it client-side makes for a much nicer user experience. cheers, barneyb On 8/9/05, Dawson, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are currently working on a small project to test AJAX feasibility for us. We found that it is a great deal of work compared to simple page refreshes. However, the stuff is very cool and has some great potential. We do not use web services, so to speak. I created a simple page that returns an XML packet to the AJAX request. Simple and very effective. M!ke -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 360.319.6145 http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 50 invites. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214219 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Architecture thoughts
Implement your application as a set of CFCs that your UI's connect to. For HTML, they'll hit them directly. For Flash and JS Remoting, you'll use some facade CFCs. The application CFCs would be instantiated via Application.cf(m|c), so they're always present, no matter what type of connection is coming in. You don't want to actually put the application into the web services, there should be an entirely separate facade layer (which is really the UI, the clients of the web services are irrelevant to you, the app developer). Each web service invocation instantiates the listening CFC, so it's important those CFCs are as lightweight as possible, and then delegates to the real application CFCs to do the actual processing. And it's worth mentioning that you can use Model-Glue without initializing the backend with a config bean. Though if you're going to go that route, I'd probably use a config bean that's simply a delegate to the real backend, so you're still using the config bean mechanism, just the bean you're loading is just a passthrough to the real app. That way both sides remain agnostic of the other. cheers, barneyb On 8/8/05, Marlon Moyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm tossing around ideas for the architecture for a new project. I'd like to keep the interface flexible, meaning I'd like to have the ability to use flash, html, ajax,etc. I was thinking about creating all of the business logic as a set of web services. Any thoughts, pitfalls that I should avoid. I really like the idea of separating out the interface from the business logic completely. I like the model-glue framework from a high level but I get an icky feeling when I have to start initializing the model with a config-bean from what should be the UI. Just thinking out loud I guess. -- Marlon A mulatto, an albino, a mosquito, my libido -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 360.319.6145 http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 50 invites. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:214114 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
