Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. Here is a tool to convert [url=http://www.convert-db.com/mssql-to-mysql.htm]mssql to MYSQL [/url] database. That i found on google search it says it can convert almost any database try and tel me is that worth or not. Download Free : http://www.convert-db.com/mssql-to-mysql.htm ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:325867 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. Here is a tool to convert mssql to MYSQL database. That i found on google search it says it can convert almost any database try and tel me is that worth or not. Download Free : http://www.convert-db.com/mssql-to-mysql.htm ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:325868 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. I use data loader for migrating almost any data, it helps me to convert MSSQL to MYSQL, MS access to MSSQL, mysql, csv loader, foxpro and MSSQL to MS access, MYSQl, CSV, foxpro etc. In my view this is a best Data Migration Tool Download Free : http://www.convert-db.com/mssql-to-mysql.htm ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:325762 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
The value proposition of CF is that it pays for itself with shorter development and maintenance times. If that's not true for you, you shouldn't buy it no matter what the price is. If it is true for you, the price is irrelevant. As enterprise products go, CF is dirt cheap. Don't forget about people that sell software. Even though I'm a CF developer, and I love it, if I wanted to make a web based product that would go to small/medium businesses, I'd hate to have to tell them, My product costs $150, but I'm charging you a $1450 because it's built on ColdFusion. Yes, I know they could host it on my servers, but a lot of data is too secure for that. Lets not forget there are 2 enterprise ready open source CF engines, Open BlueDragon and Railo. So the argument about price is no longer relevant. Unless you need some of the Adobe specific tags, both these two FOSS CF engines are more than adequate for most tasks. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:325771 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
On 10/30/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly believe that if companies like the yahoo and google, who use mySql to run portions of their websites, figure to prove that a whopping $20,000 licence for MS or Oracle just is not worth it. Things just aren't as simple as this. Companies like these would pay far more than $20K for either SQL Server or Oracle, and they're large enough that they have incredible economies of scale when they implement and maintain open source solutions. It's my understanding that Google, for example, maintains a customized version of CentOS, a Linux distribution, for use with their search servers. If you have enough identical servers, that's a sensible value proposition, but most of us don't come close to that. Not to mention the fact that many companies that use MySQL pay *significant* amounts of money to MySQL for support. The kind of support that means Monty or David or one of the other senior developers *calls them back directly*. Or pays MySQL to implement specific features. Or spends $$$ on their own extensions to MySQL and have to contribute them back because of the GPL. Or hires the MySQL consulting team for $$$ to get up and running since there are, conservatively, about 1 kabillion possible options for configuring performance. Also remember that one of the options MySQL licensing options is free *under the GPL*, which has intellectual property implications. Also note that MySQL will license you a non-GPL-encumbered version of MySQL if you're willing to pay for it -- the new Enterprise offering has changed a bit from the old $695/server for MySQL Pro, but it's not much worse. MySQL is not just about free as in beer -- it's free as in freedom. If you're in it just for free beer, you'll might not be satisfied ;) -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258690 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
On 10/31/06, Jordan Michaels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Watts wrote: For the record, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL, just that price isn't necessarily one of them. Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. How about platform independence? How about affordable clustering? How about unlimited user connections? How about redistribution rights? Rebranding? No-cost upgrading? You may wish to reread what I actually wrote, there. I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with you. Your philosophy seems to be stick with what you know but I don't think that is a good philosophy. What if what you know isn't necessarily what's best? How would you know the difference unless you take the time to properly evaluate your alternatives? I don't think you did understand what he said. I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL He's saying there are (or would/could be in a given situation) good reasons for making the move. Your response: Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. Which seems to be the same thing as there are (or would/could be in a given situation) good reasons for making the move. -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258592 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Dave Watts wrote: For the record, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL, just that price isn't necessarily one of them. Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. How about platform independence? How about affordable clustering? How about unlimited user connections? How about redistribution rights? Rebranding? No-cost upgrading? You may wish to reread what I actually wrote, there. I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with you. Your philosophy seems to be stick with what you know but I don't think that is a good philosophy. What if what you know isn't necessarily what's best? How would you know the difference unless you take the time to properly evaluate your alternatives? You might as well be advising people as Oh, you're stuck in a rut, well then you might as well stay there because it's going to take effort to get out.. That doesn't seem right to me. Oh yeah, and on the costs issue, don't forget that in addition to the staggering cost of MS SQL Server itself, you are also forced to run it on a MS OS - which costs another very shiny penny. Cost is certainly a factor - and usually the one board members care about the most. If you're currently running MS SQL Server, you presumably already have a Windows infrastructure. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ That's, as you say, presumption. Most of the situations I've seen like this are from folks who've been using third-party hosting for a while. It was the third-party host that was using a Windows environment, and the client wants to get away from that. -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Blue Dragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258588 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Charlie Griefer wrote: On 10/31/06, Jordan Michaels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Watts wrote: For the record, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL, just that price isn't necessarily one of them. Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. How about platform independence? How about affordable clustering? How about unlimited user connections? How about redistribution rights? Rebranding? No-cost upgrading? You may wish to reread what I actually wrote, there. I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with you. Your philosophy seems to be stick with what you know but I don't think that is a good philosophy. What if what you know isn't necessarily what's best? How would you know the difference unless you take the time to properly evaluate your alternatives? I don't think you did understand what he said. I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL He's saying there are (or would/could be in a given situation) good reasons for making the move. Your response: Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. Which seems to be the same thing as there are (or would/could be in a given situation) good reasons for making the move. I *did* understand what he said: just that price isn't necessarily one of them. All of the reasons I provided required price to be a huge factor in them. My apologies for not being more clear on that. I can see where the misunderstanding might occur. -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Blue Dragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258600 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
The value proposition of CF is that it pays for itself with shorter development and maintenance times. If that's not true for you, you shouldn't buy it no matter what the price is. If it is true for you, the price is irrelevant. As enterprise products go, CF is dirt cheap. Don't forget about people that sell software. Even though I'm a CF developer, and I love it, if I wanted to make a web based product that would go to small/medium businesses, I'd hate to have to tell them, My product costs $150, but I'm charging you a $1450 because it's built on ColdFusion. Yes, I know they could host it on my servers, but a lot of data is too secure for that. -- EMF idahopower.com made the following annotations. -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. == ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258593 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
Don't forget about people that sell software. Even though I'm a CF developer, and I love it, if I wanted to make a web based product that would go to small/medium businesses, I'd hate to have to tell them, My product costs $150, but I'm charging you a $1450 because it's built on ColdFusion. Yes, I know they could host it on my servers, but a lot of data is too secure for that. I'm not forgetting them - the value proposition simply isn't there for them. They're much better off using almost anything else. But that is irrelevant to the vast majority of CF developers. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258639 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
If you're currently running MS SQL Server, you presumably already have a Windows infrastructure. That's, as you say, presumption. Most of the situations I've seen like this are from folks who've been using third-party hosting for a while. It was the third-party host that was using a Windows environment, and the client wants to get away from that. Maybe they want to get away from that, but it is there, right? I mean, they're not running SQL Server on a magic cloud of faerie dust, right? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258641 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
On 10/31/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's, as you say, presumption. Most of the situations I've seen like this are from folks who've been using third-party hosting for a while. It was the third-party host that was using a Windows environment, and the client wants to get away from that. Maybe they want to get away from that, but it is there, right? I mean, they're not running SQL Server on a magic cloud of faerie dust, right? Which they are you talking 'bout, willis? :) Although I do like the faerie spelling. So middle englishish. Not to be confused with middle earth, which is actually more old english. Wikipedia is awesome. Awesome I tell you! Happy All Hallows Eve!!! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258650 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Ok, I had hoped to not stir the pot as far as what everybody thinks is best. I have been using 3rd party hosting on windows servers, and am now considering hosting in-house. I know windows inside and out, but the costs of running my own server with MSSQL and Windows would just be more than I would be willing to spit out. I have no problem learning a new OS, since it is kind of easy for me to pick up on things like that. Anyhow, I really appreciate the indepth advice that people have given and it should point me in the right direction. Regards, Doug B. - Original Message - From: Denny Valliant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: Converting from SQL to mySql On 10/31/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's, as you say, presumption. Most of the situations I've seen like this are from folks who've been using third-party hosting for a while. It was the third-party host that was using a Windows environment, and the client wants to get away from that. Maybe they want to get away from that, but it is there, right? I mean, they're not running SQL Server on a magic cloud of faerie dust, right? Which they are you talking 'bout, willis? :) Although I do like the faerie spelling. So middle englishish. Not to be confused with middle earth, which is actually more old english. Wikipedia is awesome. Awesome I tell you! Happy All Hallows Eve!!! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258651 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
I recently made the same switch using www.navicat.com I just connected to my SQL server and copied the tables and data to the mySQL server, quick and painless. I really like Navicat for managing mySQL. Thanks! Christine Davis ColdFusion Lead Nations Technical Services Prairie Village, KS 913-748-8044 ext 4703 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:17 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Converting from SQL to mySql Thanks alot Jon!! I will check it out. Regards, Doug B. - Original Message - From: Jon Clausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Converting from SQL to mySql Doug, I just migrated most of my databases from MSSQL to MySQL 5 a few weeks ago.The Intelligent Converter Toolkit ( http://www.convert- in.com/sqlkit.htm ) was a lifesaver and made it pretty painless overall. It did a great job of converting the datatypes over and transferring the data on some particularly involved tables. I had to change some queries, but overall it was a good move for me. Jon On Oct 28, 2006, at 1:01 PM, Doug Brown wrote: I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258453 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
On 10/28/06, Doug Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. I do this with some regularity for clients. The standard answer is that it's easy since SQL is 'standard' -- it's just as easy to convert MS-SQL to nearly *any* db -- DB2 or Oracle or MySQL. But in reality there's plenty of quirks the emerge the more db-specific SQL you use. For example: * Data types. There are differences in the underlying details of the same data types in each db. For your specific example, VARCHAR in MySQL was limited to 255 characters in versions up through 5.0.3 and now it's 65,000. If you're on MySQL 4.1 for example, you'll have a problem. Date and time is also fun, though a marked improvement IMHO in MySQL since there are DATE, TIME, and DATETIME instead of just DATETIME. * SQL Functions. These vary between dbs. Expect some tweaking if you use a lot of SQL functions. If you're using ColdFusion functions in a SQL string, that's obviously fine. Expect to rewrite all of those queries that have DATETIME fields with hardcoded 00:00:00 and 23:59:59 in them that were written poorly in the first place! * Storedprocs/custom functions. The implementation varies by db, so expect changes here. Also keep in mind the entire security structure is different, radically different in this case. Plus all the new file management techniques, datatable types, etc. I'm a *big* fan of MySQL, on any platform, but license cost savings alone shouldn't drive you to the conversion. If you've follwed MySQL during the past month, they've moved to a model like RedHat where there's a MySQL Community Edition (like Fedora Linux -- free, more cutting edge, not supported) and MySQL Enterprise Edition (like RedHat Enterprise Linux -- not free, stable, supported). Personally, I think you get a lot of value from the MySQL Enterprise Edition and their support is _really_ good in my experience. And if you're comfortable using MySQL without corporate support packages, there's nothing wrong with that either. A lot of people have mentioned tools to help -- another is the MySQL Workbench from MySQL In the major conversions I've done of MS-SQL (or MS Access) to MySQL, most of the problems came from poorly designed databases, bad queries, and a lack of data consistency because of missing constraints -- the conversion in most cases has been the simplest part. I find date/time queries tend to take the bulk of the conversion time. My 2c. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258454 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
Yeah I ran into the same thing when I tried convertin a sql db to mysql. Had lotsa queries that bombed out. Speakin of queries, I think dave might have some good tips on mysql. he uses it alot. soap box This is the #1 reason why I try to stay informed on what features are proprietary and what is standard. For example, I see a lot of CF developers use isNull(), which is proprietary MS TSQL. You can use the exact same syntax with coalesce(), but coalesce does more stuff if you need it, and it's ANSI standard. Microsoft is not alone in making proprietary extensions to SQL, but most of the ANSI SQL standard works fine across all databases. You might think you'll never switch DBs, but it happens more than you think. What if your company get's purchased, and the new owners are a strict Oracle shop? Or, what if you get a new Boss that hates your DB? You can't predict the future, but you can prepare for it. /soap box EMF idahopower.com made the following annotations. -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. == ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258455 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
+1 for Navicat. :) Christine Davis wrote: I recently made the same switch using www.navicat.com I just connected to my SQL server and copied the tables and data to the mySQL server, quick and painless. I really like Navicat for managing mySQL. Thanks! Christine Davis ColdFusion Lead Nations Technical Services Prairie Village, KS 913-748-8044 ext 4703 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258456 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
I'm a *big* fan of MySQL, on any platform, but license cost savings alone shouldn't drive you to the conversion. What about if you're using an outdated version of MSSQL, and you'd have to pay $20,000 to upgrade to 2005? I'd be inclined to look around for cheaper DBs. As far as community vs. enterprise versions, I think support contracts exist purely to make CIO/CTO types feel warm and fuzzy. In my experience, it's a LOT cheaper to pay the one time support fee when you need to (once a year in my case) than to 'subscribe' just so that you have a direct line to $4/hr support techs in India. And any extra features you get with the enterprise version are usually either unimportant, or easily replaced by free 3rd party tools. And in RedHat's case, you get a complete replacement of RHEL if you use CentOS. --- EMF idahopower.com made the following annotations. -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. == ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258457 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Doug Brown wrote: I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. I did this a year ago with a very large application. We didn't have a whole lot of tricky stuff to convert - no stored procedures, full text indexes, etc. These are possible with MySQL, but the syntax probably differs. I mostly remember changing all my Top Ns to LIMIT N, and getting rid of a lot of cast()s and convert()s that we had to use with SQL Server (no longer necessary, the comparisons just worked in MySQL). Also had a lot of places where I was selecting @@IDENTITY after creating a record, mysql uses a different syntax to get the last inserted record ID. Also we had been sometimes placing more than one SQL statement in a cfquery block (delete all, loop and insert, etc.). This can be done with MySQL but at the time I don't think the driver supported it. So those had to be broken out into separate cfquery blocks. I used the Intelligent Converters kit, it was well worth the $49 bucks. http://www.convert-in.com/mss2sql.htm In the end it was definitely worth it, we were paying some hefty yearly fees for both the OS and the SQL Server license. I believe this is the direction MS is moving, where you have to pay every year. We would have started off with MySQL in the first place but at the time it didn't support transactions. -Ryan ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258458 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
What about if you're using an outdated version of MSSQL, and you'd have to pay $20,000 to upgrade to 2005? I'd be inclined to look around for cheaper DBs. If you don't need SQL Server Enterprise or Standard functionality, SQL Server 2005 Express is free. If you do need the sort of functionality found in Enterprise (as opposed to Standard), a lot of it doesn't exist in MySQL to the best of my knowledge. For the record, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL, just that price isn't necessarily one of them. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258484 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Dave Watts wrote: What about if you're using an outdated version of MSSQL, and you'd have to pay $20,000 to upgrade to 2005? I'd be inclined to look around for cheaper DBs. If you don't need SQL Server Enterprise or Standard functionality, SQL Server 2005 Express is free. If you do need the sort of functionality found in Enterprise (as opposed to Standard), a lot of it doesn't exist in MySQL to the best of my knowledge. For the record, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL, just that price isn't necessarily one of them. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ I've always found it easier to migrate from MS SQL to PostgreSQL personally. As long as your SQL queries are SQL standard compliant, it should be cake. I've done this with *many* sites. PostgreSQL is wonderful - and more liberally licensed then even MySQL. Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. How about platform independence? How about affordable clustering? How about unlimited user connections? How about redistribution rights? Rebranding? No-cost upgrading? Oh yeah, and on the costs issue, don't forget that in addition to the staggering cost of MS SQL Server itself, you are also forced to run it on a MS OS - which costs another very shiny penny. Cost is certainly a factor - and usually the one board members care about the most. -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Blue Dragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258488 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
If you don't need SQL Server Enterprise or Standard functionality, SQL Server 2005 Express is free. If you do need the sort of functionality found in Enterprise (as opposed to Standard), a lot of it doesn't exist in MySQL to the best of my knowledge. Slightly OT, but here at work we've been putting off the 2005 upgrade because of the dramatic changes MS did. If you're just using the DB, you're fine, but we've got a LOT of DTS packages and we use Analysis Services/Proclarity, and AS is a huge upgrade challenge as well. Personally I think DTS is a piece of [EMAIL PROTECTED] compared to SSIS, but that doesn't matter when you're looking at converting hundreds of DTS packages to SSIS. None of this means that we're moving to MySQL, it's just going to be a painful upgrade. The purchase price is expensive, but is a drop in the bucket when you've got to budget a lot of money for a 3 to 6 month project. -- -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. == EMF idahopower.com made the previous annotations. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258489 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
Oh yeah, and on the costs issue, don't forget that in addition to the staggering cost of MS SQL Server itself, you are also forced to run it on a MS OS - which costs another very shiny penny. Cost is certainly a factor - and usually the one board members care about the most. Strangely, I tend to deal with companies that don't care about the 'MS tax', no matter how much it is. In fact, they don't trust software that doesn't come with an expensive support contract. I think most of you would faint if you saw the size of the annual bill that a lot of large companies pay to Microsoft. - -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. == EMF idahopower.com made the previous annotations. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258490 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
For the record, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons to migrate from MS SQL Server to MySQL, just that price isn't necessarily one of them. Dave, I can think of plenty of reasons to migrate away from MS SQL. How about platform independence? How about affordable clustering? How about unlimited user connections? How about redistribution rights? Rebranding? No-cost upgrading? You may wish to reread what I actually wrote, there. Oh yeah, and on the costs issue, don't forget that in addition to the staggering cost of MS SQL Server itself, you are also forced to run it on a MS OS - which costs another very shiny penny. Cost is certainly a factor - and usually the one board members care about the most. If you're currently running MS SQL Server, you presumably already have a Windows infrastructure. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258492 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
I have seen alot of those bills in prior companies that I worked for. I simply think paying that kind of money out, when you have a very talented DBA that you are paying a load of money is a (waste) of money. How often does anyone here come across a problem that they have to call MS on? Exactly!! You are paying $20,000 buckaroos for some nimrod to get on the phone, and tell you this and that, when you could have logged onto CFTALK ;-) and had the answer without being put on hold 10 times while the MS tech researched your problem. Half of the time when you call, you get somebody from a country that you cannot even begin to understand. I honestly believe that if companies like the yahoo and google, who use mySql to run portions of their websites, figure to prove that a whopping $20,000 licence for MS or Oracle just is not worth it. On the same token, CF is going to have to either lower it's price, or suffer from people switching to other less expensive tochnologies. I visited forta.com and found the list of companies that he has posted as using CF has changed quite abit. Just about all of them that I clicked on, were using other technologies. IE... asp php Doug B. - Original Message - From: Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:42 PM Subject: RE: Converting from SQL to mySql Oh yeah, and on the costs issue, don't forget that in addition to the staggering cost of MS SQL Server itself, you are also forced to run it on a MS OS - which costs another very shiny penny. Cost is certainly a factor - and usually the one board members care about the most. Strangely, I tend to deal with companies that don't care about the 'MS tax', no matter how much it is. In fact, they don't trust software that doesn't come with an expensive support contract. I think most of you would faint if you saw the size of the annual bill that a lot of large companies pay to Microsoft. - -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. == EMF idahopower.com made the previous annotations. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258494 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
I honestly believe that if companies like the yahoo and google, who use mySql to run portions of their websites, figure to prove that a whopping $20,000 licence for MS or Oracle just is not worth it. Things just aren't as simple as this. Companies like these would pay far more than $20K for either SQL Server or Oracle, and they're large enough that they have incredible economies of scale when they implement and maintain open source solutions. It's my understanding that Google, for example, maintains a customized version of CentOS, a Linux distribution, for use with their search servers. If you have enough identical servers, that's a sensible value proposition, but most of us don't come close to that. On the same token, CF is going to have to either lower it's price, or suffer from people switching to other less expensive tochnologies. The value proposition of CF is that it pays for itself with shorter development and maintenance times. If that's not true for you, you shouldn't buy it no matter what the price is. If it is true for you, the price is irrelevant. As enterprise products go, CF is dirt cheap. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258499 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
On 10/28/06, Doug Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not think it liked the @ Sorry if my original post was misleading but when I move my own code from one platform to another all I do is copy the table structure and data. I use zero db-specific features so as to be able to do that. Not something a lot of people do but for me its second-nature after doing it for a few years. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258511 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Converting from SQL to mySql
Why would you want to go backwards? :-) -Original Message- From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Converting from SQL to mySql I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258366 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
I work in both platforms and go back and forth between them all the time. what versions are we talking about? mySQL5 ports right over no problemo. Date fields used to be an issue in older versions but I don't recall having any problems recently. Get hold of a copy of sqlYog. You can connect to your SQL datasource via an odbc connection and pull the whole thing right into the SQL database of your choice. Will take you only a few minutes per table, not counting the time to actually copy the data. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258367 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Backwards? I do not consider going from $20,000 to $0 a backwards move. Thanks for the help! Doug B. - Original Message - From: Matt Quackenbush [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:10 AM Subject: RE: Converting from SQL to mySql Why would you want to go backwards? :-) -Original Message- From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Converting from SQL to mySql I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258368 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Well, it would be moved over from a SQL 2000 DB to mySql 5. So basically would all the query structures work in mySql that were written for SQL 2000? I have seen a few instances where mySql crapped out on things like ... I do not think it liked the @ declare @myid int begin select @myid blah blah blah - Original Message - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Converting from SQL to mySql I work in both platforms and go back and forth between them all the time. what versions are we talking about? mySQL5 ports right over no problemo. Date fields used to be an issue in older versions but I don't recall having any problems recently. Get hold of a copy of sqlYog. You can connect to your SQL datasource via an odbc connection and pull the whole thing right into the SQL database of your choice. Will take you only a few minutes per table, not counting the time to actually copy the data. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258369 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Well, it would be moved over from a SQL 2000 DB to mySql 5. So basically would all the query structures work in mySql that were written for SQL 2000? I have seen a few instances where mySql crapped out on things like ... I do not think it liked the @ Yeah I ran into the same thing when I tried convertin a sql db to mysql. Had lotsa queries that bombed out. Speakin of queries, I think dave might have some good tips on mysql. he uses it alot. Will ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258370 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Doug, I just migrated most of my databases from MSSQL to MySQL 5 a few weeks ago.The Intelligent Converter Toolkit ( http://www.convert- in.com/sqlkit.htm ) was a lifesaver and made it pretty painless overall. It did a great job of converting the datatypes over and transferring the data on some particularly involved tables. I had to change some queries, but overall it was a good move for me. Jon On Oct 28, 2006, at 1:01 PM, Doug Brown wrote: I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258378 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Converting from SQL to mySql
Thanks alot Jon!! I will check it out. Regards, Doug B. - Original Message - From: Jon Clausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Converting from SQL to mySql Doug, I just migrated most of my databases from MSSQL to MySQL 5 a few weeks ago.The Intelligent Converter Toolkit ( http://www.convert- in.com/sqlkit.htm ) was a lifesaver and made it pretty painless overall. It did a great job of converting the datatypes over and transferring the data on some particularly involved tables. I had to change some queries, but overall it was a good move for me. Jon On Oct 28, 2006, at 1:01 PM, Doug Brown wrote: I am wondering how difficult it might be to migrate over to mySql from SQL2000? Is this a daunting task? Any assistance would be much appreciated. I would especially love to hear from someone who has done this. Regards, Doug B. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:258380 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
