Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
- Original Message - From: "Laszlo Nadai" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 3:54 AM Yeah, I lost my shirt too, but P/E is still 280.90 :-( laszlo Well I sympathise with your situation, but as I said here before - buy recommendations - especially strong ones - are very often the best reason to sell as is the situation here. Allaire is now trading around a 52 week low just to add to the depression. The "problem" Allaire have IMO is that they are a "real" company with real trading record by which they will be valued, rather than a blue sky company with nothing but hype as a valuation. A PE ratio of 280 is ten times higher than you would expect it to be, but unless a company is making profits (not sure whether Allaire does or not) the PR ratio is relatively meaningless as is EPS. The valuation is all based on prospective earnings over the next three to five years. Adrian Cooper. Please reply to me privately so that this doesn't eat up list time, but does anyone know why Allaire's stock has been plummeting? I thought someone on this list might have some insight. Its been as low as $16 this morning, and all I can find is buy recommendations, targets of $80-$125 and good news. TIA Philip -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
I think that stock prices are VERY much affected by the internet these days. Investors go to the website of the company , and check out newsgroups and mailing lists. (I am sure many investors are watching this list:)... to see what problems the company may be having. It is the only source of negative information on the company. A quick look here and on the website shows many unresolved problems that go back a long way. At 03:38 PM 9/16/2000 +0100, you wrote: Well I sympathise with your situation, but as I said here before - buy recommendations - especially strong ones - are very often the best reason to sell as is the situation here. Allaire is now trading around a 52 week low just to add to the depression. The "problem" Allaire have IMO is that they are a "real" company with real trading record by which they will be valued, rather than a blue sky company with nothing but hype as a valuation. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
- Original Message - From: "Al Musella, DPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 5:08 PM I think that stock prices are VERY much affected by the internet these days. Investors go to the website of the company , and check out newsgroups and mailing lists. (I am sure many investors are watching this list:)... to see what problems the company may be having. It is the only source of negative information on the company. A quick look here and on the website shows many unresolved problems that go back a long way. I think you are crediting the majority of investors with more investing sophistication than is reality. You are right that the Internet has affected stock movements - but only to the extent that it has allowed many more people to gamble on stocks at the click of a mouse. To most it is an alternative to the lottery or a gamble on the horses, the only speculation being - will the stock go up or will it go down - that is why stocks get so overvalued so quickly due to the momentum of millions of people all pushing prices higher and higher through Internet trading until something gives. You ask the average investor about PE's, EPS, yields, prospective earnings etc. - the traditional yardsticks for valueing stocks, and you might as well be talking a foreign language :-) Adrian Cooper. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
With all of MS's server-side momentum/juggernaut only increasing, SOAP, XML, asp, .net, C# tools and noises, ALL non-MS NT/W2K web server appplication server vendors are in MS's gun sights, and investors know what happens to the MS's strategic targets. Investors can't be faulted for expecting MS, medium- and long-term, to own every square inch of the W2K/NT4 Internet services platform. ie, investors could very well think Allaire is already a lame duck, imminent roadkill waiting, lame on highway, for the steamroller. Even if MS gets split in two or three, they are going to own that OS/Internet platform and give away whatever tools it takes to kill off all the Allaire's. Len -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: WOT: Allaire stock price
Are you saying that ColdFussion will be a thing of the past?? Rich -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WOT: Allaire stock price With all of MS's server-side momentum/juggernaut only increasing, SOAP, XML, asp, .net, C# tools and noises, ALL non-MS NT/W2K web server appplication server vendors are in MS's gun sights, and investors know what happens to the MS's strategic targets. Investors can't be faulted for expecting MS, medium- and long-term, to own every square inch of the W2K/NT4 Internet services platform. ie, investors could very well think Allaire is already a lame duck, imminent roadkill waiting, lame on highway, for the steamroller. Even if MS gets split in two or three, they are going to own that OS/Internet platform and give away whatever tools it takes to kill off all the Allaire's. Len -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
- Original Message - From: "Len Conrad" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 7:39 PM. Investors can't be faulted for expecting MS, medium- and long-term, to own every square inch of the W2K/NT4 Internet services platform. ie, investors could very well think Allaire is already a lame duck, imminent roadkill waiting, lame on highway, for the steamroller. Even if MS gets split in two or three, they are going to own that OS/Internet platform and give away whatever tools it takes to kill off all the Allaire's. That might be true of less established, more exposed, non-quoted companies, but not the Allaires of this world. CF has been compared to ASP for along time, and CF goes from strength to strength on merit. The scenario you overlook is that if M$ targets a company with critical mass, like Hotmail and many others, it becomes acquisition target - that is a much more likely scenario for Allaire IMO. Allaire have to diversify though - they are too much of a one product company right now, and it is no longer a two horse race between CF and ASP - there is now XML, PHP and others to contend with - and if one thing has been proven throughout the history of the industry - open standards and collaborative efforts will almost never be overhauled by proprietory commercial products - I think Linux is a classic example as is the Apache webserver. Adrian Cooper. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
Just in case you forgot to read anything other than M$ News: - SOAP is a late, desperate effort. Why? Glad you asked. Becuase DCOM is DEAD. - XML ??? I didn't know it was a M$ thing :-) - .net, gimme a break. Crossplatform for all m$ operating (or nonoperating) platforms - In case you didn't know, C# is for .net !!! But again, don't overestimate the fund managers intelligence. As far as Allair, I don't mind if the sotck goes to $5, I can buy more for less. I'm sure my children will appreciate the foresight. laszlo Len Conrad wrote: With all of MS's server-side momentum/juggernaut only increasing, SOAP, XML, asp, .net, C# tools and noises, ALL non-MS NT/W2K web server appplication server vendors are in MS's gun sights, and investors know what happens to the MS's strategic targets. Investors can't be faulted for expecting MS, medium- and long-term, to own every square inch of the W2K/NT4 Internet services platform. ie, investors could very well think Allaire is already a lame duck, imminent roadkill waiting, lame on highway, for the steamroller. Even if MS gets split in two or three, they are going to own that OS/Internet platform and give away whatever tools it takes to kill off all the Allaire's. Len -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
-Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, September 16, 2000 1:00 PM Subject: Re: WOT: Allaire stock price - Original Message - From: "Len Conrad" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 7:39 PM. Investors can't be faulted for expecting MS, medium- and long-term, to own every square inch of the W2K/NT4 Internet services platform. ie, investors could very well think Allaire is already a lame duck, imminent roadkill waiting, lame on highway, for the steamroller. Even if MS gets split in two or three, they are going to own that OS/Internet platform and give away whatever tools it takes to kill off all the Allaire's. That might be true of less established, more exposed, non-quoted companies, but not the Allaires of this world. CF has been compared to ASP for along time, and CF goes from strength to strength on merit. Want to bet your kids' college fund on this? :-) The scenario you overlook is that if M$ targets a company with critical mass, like Hotmail and many others, it becomes acquisition target - that is a much more likely scenario for Allaire IMO. That's a thought too scary to even comtemplate. I don't see it happening though. Usually MS does this as a last ditch to gain market share. Considering the fact that ASP probably runs on 10 (100?) times as many servers as CF, I doubt very much they're worried about Allaire. Allaire have to diversify though - they are too much of a one product company right now, and it is no longer a two horse race between CF and ASP - there is now XML, PHP and others to contend with - and if one thing has been proven throughout the history of the industry - open standards and collaborative efforts will almost never be overhauled by proprietory commercial products - I think Linux is a classic example as is the Apache webserver. I think these are excellent points. Revenues from $1500 server products can't sustain them. I guess things like Spectra, with it's much higher price tag are attempts to address this issue. Unfortunately, at the same time, they seem to be foundering a bit with all the problems with 4.5 server and studio. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: WOT: Allaire stock price
Are you saying that ColdFussion will be a thing of the past?? I'm suggesting what a lot of investors, dumb and smart, could be thinking about Allaire et al as presumptious, even talented players on what MS considers to be their own, private strategic turf. If former market share godzillas like Netscape (browser and web server) and Novell got crushed, sooner or later, by MS with predatory giveaways of inferior products, what hope has a leader-of-a-pack-of-midgets player like Allaire? Do you think investors really care about the debateable technical merits of ASP/VBscript vs CF/JRUN? Len -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
That might be true of less established, more exposed, non-quoted companies, but not the Allaires of this world. CF has been compared to ASP for along time, and CF goes from strength to strength on merit. but we're talking about stock prices and Internet investors, not product merits. The scenario you overlook is that if M$ targets a company with critical mass, like Hotmail and many others, it becomes acquisition target - that is a much more likely scenario for Allaire IMO. nah, MS has committed to XML/XSL for 2 years and are championing SOAP. Too much overlap with CFML. They don't need to buy Allaire, whose installed base and showcase design wins are smaller than MS's own with ASP. Len -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: WOT: Allaire stock price
- SOAP is a late, desperate effort. Why? Glad you asked. Becuase DCOM is DEAD. Actually, SOAP might just be wildly successful. Despite being introduced by Microsoft, it's been accepted by IBM and even Sun! SOAP isn't tied to DCOM specifically, although SOAP services can be interfaces to COM/DCOM applications. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
it's been accepted by IBM and even Sun No kidding... What was the last thing IBM ever didn't accept? (They have an actual _link_ to Nikia afeter announcing the big partnership) laszlo Dave Watts wrote: - SOAP is a late, desperate effort. Why? Glad you asked. Becuase DCOM is DEAD. Actually, SOAP might just be wildly successful. Despite being introduced by Microsoft, it's been accepted by IBM and even Sun! SOAP isn't tied to DCOM specifically, although SOAP services can be interfaces to COM/DCOM applications. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: WOT: Allaire stock price
it's been accepted by IBM and even Sun No kidding... What was the last thing IBM ever didn't accept? Well, maybe IBM doesn't work for you as an example, but what was the last Microsoft proposal that Sun did accept? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
- Original Message - From: "Dave Watts" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 9:31 PM Well, maybe IBM doesn't work for you as an example, but what was the last Microsoft proposal that Sun did accept? All this as maybe - but it doesn't do much for Allaire's stock price prospects when you consider that the current share price implies maybe earnings at 20 times their current levels. One has to ask oneself - where are these earnings going to come from against the backdrop of what is being discussed here? It is_precisely_these questions that shrewd investors should be asking. Adrian Cooper. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
Yeah, looks like everything is allright at m$. Hmmm... but than again, why did Myhrvold,Tong,Higgins,Maffei,Nielsen ann Allchin and Jadallah resign??? laszlo PS (guess, MSFT at $64 or so is still a pretty good sell:-) Dave Watts wrote: - SOAP is a late, desperate effort. Why? Glad you asked. Becuase DCOM is DEAD. Actually, SOAP might just be wildly successful. Despite being introduced by Microsoft, it's been accepted by IBM and even Sun! SOAP isn't tied to DCOM specifically, although SOAP services can be interfaces to COM/DCOM applications. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: WOT: Allaire stock price
Each of them are worth over $100 million. I would resign too! - Steve Steve Pierce, HDL "Co-Location starting $99 per month, no setup fee" (734) 482-9682 | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://HDL.com -Original Message- From: Laszlo Nadai [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 5:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WOT: Allaire stock price Yeah, looks like everything is allright at m$. Hmmm... but than again, why did Myhrvold,Tong,Higgins,Maffei,Nielsen ann Allchin and Jadallah resign??? laszlo PS (guess, MSFT at $64 or so is still a pretty good sell:-) Dave Watts wrote: - SOAP is a late, desperate effort. Why? Glad you asked. Becuase DCOM is DEAD. Actually, SOAP might just be wildly successful. Despite being introduced by Microsoft, it's been accepted by IBM and even Sun! SOAP isn't tied to DCOM specifically, although SOAP services can be interfaces to COM/DCOM applications. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
- Original Message - From: "Laszlo Nadai" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 10:04 PM Yeah, looks like everything is allright at m$. Hmmm... but than again, why did Myhrvold,Tong,Higgins,Maffei,Nielsen ann Allchin and Jadallah resign??? in the body. Don't forget Paul Maritz who also just resigned - he was big in M$. Adrian Cooper. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: WOT: Allaire stock price
Yeah, I lost my shirt too, but P/E is still 280.90 :-( laszlo Philip Meadows wrote: Please reply to me privately so that this doesn't eat up list time, but does anyone know why Allaire's stock has been plummeting? I thought someone on this list might have some insight. Its been as low as $16 this morning, and all I can find is buy recommendations, targets of $80-$125 and good news. TIA Philip -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
