RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
The technology at the time did not permit it, but the Army really wanted 2 additional capabilities; 1) to capture any given student's screen for purposes of monitoring and 2) to redisplay the instructor's or a student's screen on all the other screens We could have sold another 1/2 mil of hardware/services, if we could have provided this capability Now, here's an app that could be easily done with today's technology (and itmay be available from special-purpose vendors/programs). Today, we could take this a step further as we could broadcast to all, the instructor and one or more students collaborating on a solution -- or monitor several with Pic-in-Pic. Pretty specialized, yeah! So lets take it down a notch -- we have 20 students with browsers on everybody's screen -- what that browser displays can under control; 1) of the isolated student 2) of the instructor (when necessary) 3) of another student demoing his solution There are apps that justift Push technology. This sounds like it would be a good Breeze opportunity. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ phone: 202-797-5496 fax: 202-797-5444 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
blackstone talk at CFUN
All, Below are my notes taken from Ben Forta's talk at CF-UN. None of what is listed below is guaranteed to be included in Blackstone. Due to time constraints, he could only show a little but apparently some of his talks at user groups have been going 3+ hours. Doug Timeline: - CFMX 6.1 updater this fall - not critical -wrapper for many hotfixes - new JDBC drivers - Blackstone beta will be released this fall - Blackstone will be available first quarter 2005 Goals of Blackstone - make new developers more successful in building applications - give current developers features they can use - emphasis given to end user features - improved deployment reliability Data Entry Enhancements - skinnable forms (changes the look of the form background) - built in XForms support - W3C standard http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/ - cfform will generate XForms - can be styled and rendered via XSL - tags that produce applets (for example: cftree and cfgrid) will be replaced with flash output - ability to render forms via flash - demonstated some very slick forms that included a tabbed interface and an accordian interface Printing - add cfdocument tag - natively produce pdf and flashpaper (http://www.macromedia.com/software/contribute/productinfo/flashpaper/) output Reporting - cfreport tag - massively expanded - uses new report builder to create an XML report definition that is used to produce the output report Deployment - can deploy in bytecode format - no cfm's - can produce a stand '.war' or '.ear' file that can be dropped into java application server - enterprise version will have ability to create multiple instances right from the cf-administrator Gateways - the CF server will have the ability to listen for and respond to anything that can produce a certain type of java event - developers can build a gateway to interact with the CF server - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically - Macromedia supposedly has a telnet session interacting with CF [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicitedpush from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? John [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
If I remember correctly the gateway polled the directory and when the file showed up it fired the appropriate event and the CF server responded. Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicitedpush from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
We'd love to, but I doubt we'll get to it this time around. Basically, Blackstone is leveraging controls created for Flash MX 2004 and Flex, so we're somewhat constrained (for now) but the controls available for those products. But maybe in the future ... --- Ben _ From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: blackstone talk at CFUN I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? John _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
What I was wondering is: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Maybe Ben will need to answer this. TIA On Jul 2, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Doug James wrote: If I remember correctly the gateway polled the directory and when the file showed up it fired the appropriate event and the CF server responded. Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicited push from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
Dick Applebaum wrote: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. HTTP does not support that. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). Servers send responses, not requests. But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Flash Communications Server Jochem [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
OK, I understand the question now. Ben, please correct me if I am wrong. I believe there was a 15 second refresh set on the display page (pull). Yes, the gateways open a very large list ...interesting possibilities Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: What I was wondering is: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Maybe Ben will need to answer this. TIA On Jul 2, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Doug James wrote: If I remember correctly the gateway polled the directory and when the file showed up it fired the appropriate event and the CF server responded. Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicitedpush from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
In my example the CF code fired by the event (the presence of a file) opened the file, extracted the data, used CFQUERY to update a database, and then deleted the file. I manually refreshed the page to show that the next SELECT statement pulled all the data, including the one just auto-inserted. So no, your #3 was not what I used, and is not something that Blackstone will directly facilitate. But, if you have a way to do that now (perhaps using Flash on the client and Flash Comm Server, as one example) then sure, it'll work. --- Ben _ From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: blackstone talk at CFUN What I was wondering is: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Maybe Ben will need to answer this. TIA On Jul 2, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Doug James wrote: If I remember correctly the gateway polled the directory and when the file showed up it fired the appropriate event and the CF server responded. Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicitedpush from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
From what I've heard about the demo...I didn't think it had anything to do with the browser.I think the text file got dropped to a folder, Java triggered an event that triggered a CFC function to parse the text file and insert into a db and then Ben manually went back and refreshed the page.Basically, just to show that the CFC was fired and did what it was supposed to. I could be wrong though.. John -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: blackstone talk at CFUN What I was wondering is: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Maybe Ben will need to answer this. TIA On Jul 2, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Doug James wrote: If I remember correctly the gateway polled the directory and when the file showed up it fired the appropriate event and the CF server responded. Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicited push from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall thatthere have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
The display of the new data in the browser was a standard HTTP request/response.What happened was Ben copied the file to the drop folder. Then talk for about 15 seconds and explain that he's waiting for the event to kick in and make sure it processes.Then he refresh his browser and it display the new data. Never said it was any kind of push technology and didn't try to make it seem that it was.. he explained what he was doing every step of the way. Sam [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:51:28 -0400, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? Well, until the Flash Player allows for file uploading (yes, there's a JS workaround, but it's just that -- a workaround), I don't really think this is feasible. Sure, there are probably lots of cases where people use WYSIWYG editors without the need for file uploading, but I'd wager that there's a lot more people who do. Regards, Dave. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
What I was wondering is: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). I don't think you can really do that at all. The browser needs to make some initial request. Once the browser has made a request, you may be able to get the browser to continue to accept content (server push using multipart/x-mixed-replace), but the browser still has to make the initial request. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ phone: 202-797-5496 fax: 202-797-5444 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
WYSIWYG editors We'd love to, but I doubt we'll get to it this time around. I know that sounds like a NO, but can I give a giant PLEASE for this one?! There are a ton of different WYSIWYG editors out there-some free, some not. But they all have different implementations, and it would be incredibly useful to have a Macromedia-developed form component that fits in with the rest of the form elements you will be providing.Not just style, but how you actually code it. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, just clean design and easy to implement. And adding that component would really provide a complete form set...and dare I say, must-have upgrade? And I thought y'all created a flash component WYSIWYG on a DRK a while back? Couldn't something be done with that (since I know your developers are sitting around waiting for new ideas because they've already finished every other announced feature and are just playing splinter cell across the MM cubicles)- Tyler _ From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: blackstone talk at CFUN We'd love to, but I doubt we'll get to it this time around. Basically, Blackstone is leveraging controls created for Flash MX 2004 and Flex, so we're somewhat constrained (for now) but the controls available for those products. But maybe in the future ... --- Ben _ From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: blackstone talk at CFUN I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? John _ _ [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=t:4Todays Threads] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:169094This Message] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4Subscription] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=3902.3642.4Fast Unsubscribe] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/signin/User Settings] [HYPERLINK https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?amount=item_name=House+of+Fusionbus iness=donations%40houseoffusion.comundefined_quantity=cmd=_xclickDonation s and Support] _ HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=35 \n --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
If we use the new CFForm and its tabbed abilities, can we still drop in other non-MM components?For instance in this case of people wanting a WYSIWYG and it sounding like MM is not planning that feature, will we still be able to drop a 3rd party built one into the CF built tabbed form? On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:32:20 -0400, Tyler Silcox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that sounds like a NO, but can I give a giant PLEASE for this one?! There are a ton of different WYSIWYG editors out there-some free, some not. But they all have different implementations, and it would be incredibly useful to have a Macromedia-developed form component that fits in with the rest of the form elements you will be providing.Not just style, but how you actually code it. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, just clean design and easy to implement. And adding that component would really provide a complete form set...and dare I say, must-have upgrade? [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
Well, until the Flash Player allows for file uploading For what? Images to place within the html/text?You could easy do the uploading/managing as a separate process, but just have a directory/list/query of available images for insertion in an attribute for the call to the WYSIWYG component: cfwysiwyg type=flash imagedir=somedir stylesheet=something.css blah=etc blah=etc blah=etc / Man, I'd really like to have a standardized/non-3rd party ability to create my forms in their entirety...that would really make my life easier...and isn't that what Blackstone is all about ;-) Tyler _ From: Dave Carabetta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: blackstone talk at CFUN On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:51:28 -0400, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? Well, until the Flash Player allows for file uploading (yes, there's a JS workaround, but it's just that -- a workaround), I don't really think this is feasible. Sure, there are probably lots of cases where people use WYSIWYG editors without the need for file uploading, but I'd wager that there's a lot more people who do. Regards, Dave. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 8:09 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Dick Applebaum wrote: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. HTTP does not support that. I know that but: 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? 2) Can't you do Push with CGI? 3) Doesn't a web server, in fact, listen for unsolicited requests? 4) Given 3, couldn't a client also be running a server, and listening for unsolicited requests. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). Servers send responses, not requests. But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Flash Communications Server I was hoping for something on a smaller scale, more attainable more programmable Dick If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? - Scott Adams - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
Dick Applebaum wrote: 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? I don't know. I don't see how that is relevant either, since that obviously is a client side solution. BlackStone runs on a server. 2) Can't you do Push with CGI? You can send something to a socket with CGI. 3) Doesn't a web server, in fact, listen for unsolicited requests? Yes. 4) Given 3, couldn't a client also be running a server, and listening for unsolicited requests. How is what does or does not run on the client related to BlackStone? Jochem [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
I know that but: 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? LiveScript was simply the initial name for _javascript_, if I recall correctly. As a marketing ploy, Netscape changed the name shortly after Sun announced Java. 2) Can't you do Push with CGI? Yes, if the browser makes a request and receives a response with a MIME type of multipart/x-mixed-replace. This basically allows the server to continue its response indefinitely. I don't even know if modern browsers support this, though. 3) Doesn't a web server, in fact, listen for unsolicited requests? Yes, that's pretty much what a web server is all about. 4) Given 3, couldn't a client also be running a server, and listening for unsolicited requests. Yes, but the browser isn't going to do that for you. You'd basically have to install a server on each user's machine. I suspect most network administrators would have some issues with that. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ phone: 202-797-5496 fax: 202-797-5444 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? You're thinking of LiveConnect, but that was simply an interface for client-side communication between JS and applets. Nick [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
No, in my example there was no auto-refresh on the client page, the 15 second timer was how often the gateway checked for files in the folder. --- Ben _ From: Doug James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:10 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: blackstone talk at CFUN OK, I understand the question now. Ben, please correct me if I am wrong. I believe there was a 15 second refresh set on the display page (pull). Yes, the gateways open a very large list ...interesting possibilities Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: What I was wondering is: 1) Was there a browser request pending for CF Template the server event satisfied the request (Pull) 2) Was there an autorefresh in the page that made a server request every n seconds (Pull) 3) Did the server send an unsolicited page to an idle browser (Push) I know how to do 1 and 2, but am hoping that Blackstone will support 3. You would likely need to authorize the server to send unsolicited requests, to the browser(s). But this opens up some interesting possibilities: -- Real-time status monitoring -- Efficient chats/whiteboards/collaboration -- Streamers -- Motion detectors alarms Maybe Ben will need to answer this. TIA On Jul 2, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Doug James wrote: If I remember correctly the gateway polled the directory and when the file showed up it fired the appropriate event and the CF server responded. Doug Dick Applebaum wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Doug James wrote: - demonstrated a file drop gateway - produced a text file and placed it into a directory - the gateway produced the event - CF server responded and picked the file out of the directory and displayed its contents on the web page automagically Was this an unsolicitedpush from a server to a client browser? TIA Dick In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey - _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 8:36 AM, Dave Watts wrote: I don't think you can really do that at all. The browser needs to make some initial request. Once the browser has made a request, you may be able to get the browser to continue to accept content (server push using multipart/x-mixed-replace), but the browser still has to make the initial request. No problem with issuing the initial request (or reconnect if dropped) -- You need to do that for any preso/whiteboard/chat/streamer site, anyway. I wonder how long the connection will be maintained without traffic? Probably need to search the TCP/IP and HTTP specs to determine that. If timeout is a problem, the server could just periodically burp the pending sites, every n seconds -- programatically twiddling their respective shift keys. I realize that there are better ways to broadcast to a large number of sites, but this could be useful for a small number of clients, say 5-10, chatting, collaborating, interacting. Dick You don't get anything clean without getting something else dirty. - Cecil Baxter - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
You are describing two related Netscape technologies: LiveScript became _javascript_, and Netscape built an early push system based on its server-side _javascript_/LiveScript technology. I was working - with little to show for it - with the Netscape SuiteSpot server-side technology when I heard about CF.I saw a demo of 1.5, then ran out and got a copy of the newly minted 2.0.I completed the project that I had been working on for two months in two weeks, and the rest, as they say, is history. Now, I could do it with CFMX and Dreamweaver in about two hours or less. Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company Dick Applebaum wrote: ---snip--- 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
From: Dick Applebaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Was this an unsolicitedpush from a server to a client browser? No, Doug's choice of the word automatically might be misleading you... Ben put a file in a directory, a listener (in Java) spotted the change and notified Blackstone to invoke a method on a CFC. That CFC then read the file contents and inserted them into the database. Ben then hit refresh on the browser and it displayed the new content. Check out my blog for more notes on what the event gateway is capable of. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
that editor was by josh dura not MM, very nice though -- Original Message -- From: Tyler Silcox [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date:Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:32:20 -0400 WYSIWYG editors We'd love to, but I doubt we'll get to it this time around. I know that sounds like a NO, but can I give a giant PLEASE for this one?! There are a ton of different WYSIWYG editors out there-some free, some not. But they all have different implementations, and it would be incredibly useful to have a Macromedia-developed form component that fits in with the rest of the form elements you will be providing.Not just style, but how you actually code it. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, just clean design and easy to implement. And adding that component would really provide a complete form set...and dare I say, must-have upgrade? And I thought y'all created a flash component WYSIWYG on a DRK a while back? Couldn't something be done with that (since I know your developers are sitting around waiting for new ideas because they've already finished every other announced feature and are just playing splinter cell across the MM cubicles)- Tyler _ From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: blackstone talk at CFUN We'd love to, but I doubt we'll get to it this time around. Basically, Blackstone is leveraging controls created for Flash MX 2004 and Flex, so we're somewhat constrained (for now) but the controls available for those products. But maybe in the future ... --- Ben _ From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: blackstone talk at CFUN I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? John _ _ [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=t:4Todays Threads] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:169094This Message] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4Subscription] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=3902.3642.4Fast Unsubscribe] [HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/signin/User Settings] [HYPERLINK https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?amount=item_name=House+of+Fusionbus iness=donations%40houseoffusion.comundefined_quantity=cmd=_xclickDonation s and Support] _ HYPERLINK http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=35 \n --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
http://www.yamago.net/components/ -- Original Message -- From: Dave Carabetta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date:Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:14:21 -0400 On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:51:28 -0400, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? Well, until the Flash Player allows for file uploading (yes, there's a JS workaround, but it's just that -- a workaround), I don't really think this is feasible. Sure, there are probably lots of cases where people use WYSIWYG editors without the need for file uploading, but I'd wager that there's a lot more people who do. Regards, Dave. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 8:51 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Dick Applebaum wrote: 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? I don't know. I don't see how that is relevant either, since that obviously is a client side solution. BlackStone runs on a server. AIR, Livescript had a server-side component that communicated with a corresponding clientside component. I know it is not being used, today, but it was in the past that tend to prove that it can be done within the rules of TCP/IP and HTTP 2) Can't you do Push with CGI? You can send something to a socket with CGI. 3) Doesn't a web server, in fact, listen for unsolicited requests? Yes. 4) Given 3, couldn't a client also be running a server, and listening for unsolicited requests. How is what does or does not run on the client related to BlackStone? If Blackstone on the server, thru it's own capabilities, or by invoking a GGI program, can send an unsolicited packet to a socket on the client then I have what I need. I have, say, a web server running on the client than I don't need anything special 1) I send a request to Blackstone telling him that I want to be informed whenever a certain event occurs send notification to this URL:Socket. 2) Blackstone records this on the server, respondss OK to me, then goes on its way... 3) Blackstone detects an event, sees that I am registered for this event and issues an sends a packet to the specified URL:Socket. The packet could be as simple as a CFHTTP post to a web server on the client, or I could write a specialized daemon that runs on the client. In either case, I, the client, am receiving unsolicited input on the client machine -- and I can do anything I want, based on that input -- start the coffee/furnace, reboot the system, issue a sell order for a stock that has reached a target price... Or have my browser issue a request to the Blackstone server for whatever. It isn't really Push technology, because I have told the server that I can be pushed around It may be kludgy, but it would work -- now if I were running Blackstone on the Client, as well--- 'Course, everything could be on a small LAN, like classrooms, guard stations... In real life Dave Watts' approach may be more realistic. Finally, there must be some mechanism in TCP/IP (if not in HTTP) to maintain connections because I am able to get streaming data into a browser/applet/plugin window. Dick Jochem [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
That would be great if it Blackstone had WYSIWYG form controls. All of the Flash elements can be skinned if I recall correctly.Is that correct? On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:46:01 -0400, Ben Forta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We'd love to, but I doubt we'll get to it this time around. Basically, Blackstone is leveraging controls created for Flash MX 2004 and Flex, so we're somewhat constrained (for now) but the controls available for those products. But maybe in the future ... --- Ben _ From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: blackstone talk at CFUN I have a question about these flash generated forms... The accordion or tabbed method sounds great for some of the site management controls I like to give customers, however, some of the form items I use on those tabs are WYSIWYG editors.Any plans of having something like that built into this new cfform control?cfinput type=wysiwyg or something like that? John _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
Flash with XMLSockets or FlashComm will give you an always-on connection. Any use of a webserver on the client machine to provide local back-end functionality to a desktop app is really overkill. Sam [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 8:59 AM, Dave Watts wrote: I know that but: 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? LiveScript was simply the initial name for _javascript_, if I recall correctly. As a marketing ploy, Netscape changed the name shortly after Sun announced Java. Yes, but there was also some server-side Push technology called Livewire (or somesuch)I remember reading about it, but never found anyone using/providing it. 2) Can't you do Push with CGI? Yes, if the browser makes a request and receives a response with a MIME type of multipart/x-mixed-replace. This basically allows the server to continue its response indefinitely. I don't even know if modern browsers support this, though. It appears that Mozilla does: http://xulplanet.com/tutorials/mozsdk/serverpush.php And Apple has a Safari Browser SDK, so you could conceivable write your own, special purpose, if necessary. Or it could be a browser plugin (Flash?, Java?) 3) Doesn't a web server, in fact, listen for unsolicited requests? Yes, that's pretty much what a web server is all about. 4) Given 3, couldn't a client also be running a server, and listening for unsolicited requests. Yes, but the browser isn't going to do that for you. You'd basically have to install a server on each user's machine. I suspect most network administrators would have some issues with that. They might if it benefitted the network A few years ago, my company sold/installed 100 computers distributed over 11 LANs to the Army at Ft; Leavenworth. The bulk of these LANs were in Advanced Officer training Classrooms to perform battlefield simulations using Large screen 3-D HI-res (at the time) color graphics. The technology at the time did not permit it, but the Army really wanted 2 additional capabilities; 1) to capture any given student's screen for purposes of monitoring and 2) to redisplay the instructor's or a student's screen on all the other screens We could have sold another 1/2 mil of hardware/services, if we could have provided this capability Now, here's an app that could be easily done with today's technology (and itmay be available from special-purpose vendors/programs). Today, we could take this a step further as we could broadcast to all, the instructor and one or more students collaborating on a solution -- or monitor several with Pic-in-Pic. Pretty specialized, yeah! So lets take it down a notch -- we have 20 students with browsers on everybody's screen -- what that browser displays can under control; 1) of the isolated student 2) of the instructor (when necessary) 3) of another student demoing his solution There are apps that justift Push technology. Dick The best way to predict the future is to invent it. - Alan Kay - [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 10:17 AM, Sean Corfield wrote: From: Dick Applebaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Was this an unsolicited push from a server to a client browser? No, Doug's choice of the word automatically might be misleading you... Ben put a file in a directory, a listener (in Java) spotted the change and notified Blackstone to invoke a method on a CFC. That CFC then read the file contents and inserted them into the database. Ben then hit refresh on the browser and it displayed the new content. Hey, Sean -- longtime, no post here! Yeah, sounded too good to be true. Ben oughta' automate that (to be even more deceiving) by adding: meta HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT=0 to the browser page. Dick [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Samuel R. Neff wrote: Flash with XMLSockets or FlashComm will give you an always-on connection. Any use of a webserver on the client machine to provide local back-end functionality to a desktop app is really overkill. That definitely would be a better way to go -- as long as the Flash program also has (with proper user authorization) to access the system and file structure (of the logged on user) Yes, I mean cfexecute-level stuff. No, this is not (necessarily) for the web but for a closed network-- where the enterprise owns all the clients and all the servers. Dick [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
Sounds like everyone is confused enough to begin with, and he was trying to be clear. John -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: blackstone talk at CFUN On Jul 2, 2004, at 10:17 AM, Sean Corfield wrote: From: Dick Applebaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Was this an unsolicited push from a server to a client browser? No, Doug's choice of the word automatically might be misleading you... Ben put a file in a directory, a listener (in Java) spotted the changeand notified Blackstone to invoke a method on a CFC. That CFC thenread the file contents and inserted them into the database. Ben thenhit refresh on the browser and it displayed the new content. Hey, Sean -- longtime, no post here! Yeah, sounded too good to be true. Ben oughta' automate that (to be even more deceiving) by adding: meta HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT=0 to the browser page. Dick [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
On Jul 2, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Samuel R. Neff wrote: Flash with XMLSockets or FlashComm will give you an always-on connection. Any use of a webserver on the client machine to provide local back-end functionality to a desktop app is really overkill. Ya' know, the more I think about it --- Logically you are correct! But in practice, I think the browser may be better -- at least from a performance standpoint. On my Mac 1 GHz G4 1 Gig RAM I normally run Apache Jetty web server JRun CFMX for J2EE BDJ2ee MySQL SyBase_ASE Safari FireFox Mozilla Email Client Terminal CLI BBEdit IDE various desktop programs Activity Monitor Now, the secret to all this running at once, is that nothing uses much system resources unless it is actively being used -- the components just sit there taking up virtual memory and and a few hunddreths of a cpu cycle. For example, 1 Have 1 FireFox window open to Apple's main page www,apple.com --0.5 - 2.4 CPU 28.34 MB real memory now if i point that browser to macromedia www.macromedia.com - 16.0 - 24.7 cpu 35.38 MB real memory so, open up another window to the flex code explorer (pops up a 3rd window) now total firefox is 31.9 -38.5 cpu and 71.83 cpu None of the 3 windows is active or visible, but Flash is gobbling up 1/3 of my cpu cycles just lookin'for something to do. I suggest to you, that Flash, in its current implementation, is overkill! I can do a lot more, and much better by running another server or daemon.They don't use many cpu cycles until they *find* something to do. HTH Dick [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: blackstone talk at CFUN
Flash itself doesn't but you're talking about an installed desktop app.You can install a Java app along with Flash that can provide all the functionality Flash doesn't have and can communicate with the SWF via XMLSocket. This can also be done on Windows via an ActiveX container or project extension but right now there is nothing cross-platform. And of course, as said earlier, Director can be used to create cross-platform apps and has a lot more capabilities than Flash, including database access and file system access (via extras). Sam -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: blackstone talk at CFUN On Jul 2, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Samuel R. Neff wrote: Flash with XMLSockets or FlashComm will give you an always-on connection. Any use of a webserver on the client machine to provide local back-end functionality to a desktop app is really overkill. That definitely would be a better way to go -- as long as the Flash program also has (with proper user authorization) to access the system and file structure (of the logged on user) Yes, I mean cfexecute-level stuff. No, this is not (necessarily) for the web but for a closed network-- where the enterprise owns all the clients and all the servers. Dick [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: blackstone talk at CFUN
LiveWire was the name that Netscape gave for the overall package of server based technologies. To quote Mark Richter in his book, Official Netscape LiveWire Book (Ventana, 1997, p4), LiveWire is Netscape's groundbreaking solution or interactive network applications. or, to use the author's favorite term, the foundation, along with Navigator, of a paradigm shift. The ground did break enough to swallow up my $49.95 (in 1997 dollars).I new I was keeping this otherwise completely useless tome for a reason! At 11:27 AM 7/2/2004, you wrote: On Jul 2, 2004, at 8:59 AM, Dave Watts wrote: I know that but: 1) didn't Netscape have a flaver of _javascript_ that supported push technology -- called LiveScript? LiveScript was simply the initial name for _javascript_, if I recall correctly. As a marketing ploy, Netscape changed the name shortly after Sun announced Java. Yes, but there was also some server-side Push technology called Livewire (or somesuch)I remember reading about it, but never found anyone using/providing it. 2) Can't you do Push with CGI? Yes, if the browser makes a request and receives a response with a MIME type of multipart/x-mixed-replace. This basically allows the server to continue its response indefinitely. I don't even know if modern browsers support this, though. It appears that Mozilla does: http://xulplanet.com/tutorials/mozsdk/serverpush.php And Apple has a Safari Browser SDK, so you could conceivable write your own, special purpose, if necessary. Or it could be a browser plugin (Flash?, Java?) 3) Doesn't a web server, in fact, listen for unsolicited requests? Yes, that's pretty much what a web server is all about. 4) Given 3, couldn't a client also be running a server, and listening for unsolicited requests. Yes, but the browser isn't going to do that for you. You'd basically have to install a server on each user's machine. I suspect most network administrators would have some issues with that. They might if it benefitted the network A few years ago, my company sold/installed 100 computers distributed over 11 LANs to the Army at Ft; Leavenworth. The bulk of these LANs were in Advanced Officer training Classrooms to perform battlefield simulations using Large screen 3-D HI-res (at the time) color graphics. The technology at the time did not permit it, but the Army really wanted 2 additional capabilities; 1) to capture any given student's screen for purposes of monitoring and 2) to redisplay the instructor's or a student's screen on all the other screens We could have sold another 1/2 mil of hardware/services, if we could have provided this capability Now, here's an app that could be easily done with today's technology (and itmay be available from special-purpose vendors/programs). Today, we could take this a step further as we could broadcast to all, the instructor and one or more students collaborating on a solution -- or monitor several with Pic-in-Pic. Pretty specialized, yeah! So lets take it down a notch -- we have 20 students with browsers on everybody's screen -- what that browser displays can under control; 1) of the isolated student 2) of the instructor (when necessary) 3) of another student demoing his solution There are apps that justift Push technology. Dick The best way to predict the future is to invent it. - Alan Kay - -- [http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=t:4Todays Threads] [http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:169172This Message] [http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4Subscription] [http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=305.286.4Fast Unsubscribe] [http://www.houseoffusion.com/signin/User Settings] [https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?amount=item_name=House+of+Fusionbusiness=donations%40houseoffusion.comundefined_quantity=cmd=_xclickDonations and Support] -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
