Re: improved js for form validation?
Does anyone know if there are improved form validation scripts available for download (yes, I know I can make my own). This can be worth a look: http://www.massimocorner.com/validator/ Specifically, if I use validate=integer, it is approving a value of 1+. http://www.massimocorner.com/validator/reference/index.htm Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271975 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: improved js for form validation?
I still don't get why people use JS for form validation, Why not just place some decent server side stuff on it? It's allot less hassle and allot more secure. Rob -Original Message- From: Massimo Foti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 March 2007 09:28 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: improved js for form validation? Does anyone know if there are improved form validation scripts available for download (yes, I know I can make my own). This can be worth a look: http://www.massimocorner.com/validator/ Specifically, if I use validate=integer, it is approving a value of 1+. http://www.massimocorner.com/validator/reference/index.htm Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271977 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
I still don't get why people use JS for form validation, Maybe because it allows for a better user's exerience ? :-) Why not just place some decent server side stuff on it? I use both client and server-side validation. Many people consider it a best practice It's allot less hassle and allot more secure. It's less hassle for the developer, much more hassle for the user Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271978 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: improved js for form validation?
I'm not so sure I agree that it does benefit the user experience, Perhaps for some of the more complex validations, but generally when I click the 'submit' button and I get a horrible windows style 'BP!!!' and a notice window that I've missed out my name I find it to be a little offensive more than helpful. With the server side validation you can have it pass the user back to the form with subtle highlights and suggestions as to where they missed a few things, far more pleasant, far more informative. I've never really seen client side validation to be beneficial as it takes all the additional time to code and test, and then you have to consider that over 20% or browsers have JS disabled and wouldn't be able to take advantage anyway, so you're probably going to kiss good bye to the accessibility of your site. The studies run about the drop in JavaScript support by users seemed to find the core reason for disabling it was down to it being an annoyance rather than any form of benefit. Server side is accessible, quick and easy to maintain and develop, and is totally secure as its not reliant on the client to support it, it serves all purposes, I've always seen JavaScript validation to be solving a problem that doesn't exist. Rob -Original Message- From: Massimo Foti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 March 2007 10:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: improved js for form validation? I still don't get why people use JS for form validation, Maybe because it allows for a better user's exerience ? :-) Why not just place some decent server side stuff on it? I use both client and server-side validation. Many people consider it a best practice It's allot less hassle and allot more secure. It's less hassle for the developer, much more hassle for the user Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271981 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
I'm not so sure I agree that it does benefit the user experience, Perhaps for some of the more complex validations, but generally when I click the 'submit' button and I get a horrible windows style 'BP!!!' and a notice window that I've missed out my name I find it to be a little offensive more than helpful. There are better options that 'BP!!!' :-) Something like this is, in my opinion, does benefit the user experience: http://www.massimocorner.com/validator/samples/custom_error.htm Of course, it's just a matter of opinions. With the server side validation you can have it pass the user back to the form with subtle highlights and suggestions as to where they missed a few things, far more pleasant, far more informative. See above, you can do the same client-side, without reloading the page. I've never really seen client side validation to be beneficial as it takes all the additional time to code and test, It's, again, a matter of opinions. I developed a dedicated library just for that. I write the code just once and it implements validation both on the client and server-side. The client-side library is available for download, the server-side is not (not yet at least) and then you have to consider that over 20% or browsers have JS disabled and wouldn't be able to take advantage anyway, so you're probably going to kiss good bye to the accessibility of your site. 20%??? Come on, even the most anti-JS zealots will never agree on this number :-))) BTW Any serious stat that consider the percentage of JS disabled should exclude search engine robots, I haven't seen one that does. so you're probably going to kiss good bye to the accessibility of your site. Again, on public facing websites I use both. Server side is accessible, quick and easy to maintain and develop, and is totally secure as its not reliant on the client to support it, it serves all purposes, I've always seen JavaScript validation to be solving a problem that doesn't exist. We just disagree on this. It's fine for me. Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271983 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: improved js for form validation?
First, thanks to everyone for responding. However, I never intended to start a flame war - the fact is I'm using JS and it's not working right. Specifically, I'm using CF's built in validation for ranges in a cfinput tag. The trouble I'm having is it's accepting a value of 1+. Technically, it contains a valid integer; however, the addition of the plus sign invalidates the value as an integer. I was really hoping to illicit commentary about the methods CF's JS routine uses to reach its decision. I don't want to use another JS validation system (unless I can find no other way), and I don't want to specially code my processing to deal with one special case. Does anyone know why CF's code would consider this valid? Has there been any attempts to improve the /CFIDE/scripts/cfform.js routines? TIA, Oblio This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272025 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
Oblio, A lot of people on this list don't like cfforms for just the reason you are stating - there are flaws in the js such as the one you've discovered. I did some testing and found that 1$ will also slip through, as well as 1, (one with a comma). This is why people are saying to try another validation scheme. All you can do is hope the js validations are better in CF8, and get cracking with Massimo's validation, qForms or whatever. -- Josh - Original Message - From: Leitch, Oblio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: RE: improved js for form validation? First, thanks to everyone for responding. However, I never intended to start a flame war - the fact is I'm using JS and it's not working right. Specifically, I'm using CF's built in validation for ranges in a cfinput tag. The trouble I'm having is it's accepting a value of 1+. Technically, it contains a valid integer; however, the addition of the plus sign invalidates the value as an integer. I was really hoping to illicit commentary about the methods CF's JS routine uses to reach its decision. I don't want to use another JS validation system (unless I can find no other way), and I don't want to specially code my processing to deal with one special case. Does anyone know why CF's code would consider this valid? Has there been any attempts to improve the /CFIDE/scripts/cfform.js routines? TIA, Oblio This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272031 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
I'm currently integrating Adobe's Spry form validation into most of my sites and its been wonderful so far. There's no need to have windows beeps as you call em when theres far more graceful notifications to the user that can be done. Also, providing client side validation is great for you and your client for a couple reasons outside of best practices. - if the customer is on a slow connection you've potentially saved them 2 page loads if you're action page redirects back etc vs a possibly cached script load up front that provides immediate feedback. I've seen customers who share a QoS'd T1 for their entire ... off-shore ... hundreds of employees operations ... and you know what who do you think gets blamed for slow page loading from them? =\ - saves on bandwidth to some extent possibly (unless you gorge on js files -cough- prototype :D ) not having to make multiple round trips for the same data subset. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272039 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
Oblio, I got your intended result by doing the following: cfinput name=fld required=yes type=text validate=regular_expression pattern=^[\d]+$ message=not an integer. / I didn't bang on it too hard though, maybe you could test it further and see if it's failsafe. It is lame though that you can't simply use the integer validation. -- Josh - Original Message - From: Leitch, Oblio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: RE: improved js for form validation? First, thanks to everyone for responding. However, I never intended to start a flame war - the fact is I'm using JS and it's not working right. Specifically, I'm using CF's built in validation for ranges in a cfinput tag. The trouble I'm having is it's accepting a value of 1+. Technically, it contains a valid integer; however, the addition of the plus sign invalidates the value as an integer. I was really hoping to illicit commentary about the methods CF's JS routine uses to reach its decision. I don't want to use another JS validation system (unless I can find no other way), and I don't want to specially code my processing to deal with one special case. Does anyone know why CF's code would consider this valid? Has there been any attempts to improve the /CFIDE/scripts/cfform.js routines? TIA, Oblio This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272040 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: improved js for form validation?
Thanks, that was nice and direct. I actually tracked down the problem; it lies in the fact that the cfform.js *changes* the value before validating. I can't guess why they did this, but they strip spaces, dollar, pound, yen, euro, commas, tildas and plus signs before deciding that it's good. I'm not sure how you can call that validation. At least now I have a reason/explanation and I can make an argument for retro-fitting all the forms. OT: has anyone used Dojo? -Original Message- From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: improved js for form validation? Oblio, A lot of people on this list don't like cfforms for just the reason you are stating - there are flaws in the js such as the one you've discovered. I did some testing and found that 1$ will also slip through, as well as 1, (one with a comma). This is why people are saying to try another validation scheme. All you can do is hope the js validations are better in CF8, and get cracking with Massimo's validation, qForms or whatever. -- Josh This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272056 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
Thanks, that was nice and direct. I actually tracked down the problem; it lies in the fact that the cfform.js *changes* the value before validating. I can't guess why they did this, but they strip spaces, dollar, pound, yen, euro, commas, tildas and plus signs before deciding that it's good. I'm not sure how you can call that validation. If you type 1+ into the field, and submit to a database, does the 1+ get inserted into your database, or does 1 get inserted into the database? If it's 1, then I can see the logic behind what CF is doing there. It's helping you by stripping any extra garbage that might be associated with an integer (currency symbols etc.). As long as what's left after the garbage is stripped off validates ok, it will pass through. This relieves you of the need to do that stripping yourself. But this seems somewhat arbitrary, and could lead to unexpected results, so it's probably best not to rely on it. -- Josh ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272057 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: improved js for form validation?
It does not - because CF passes along a copy of the value and not the object.value, it does not alter what's actually in the form. That's why it's such a problem. -Original Message- From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 3:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: improved js for form validation? If you type 1+ into the field, and submit to a database, does the 1+ get inserted into your database, or does 1 get inserted into the database? If it's 1, then I can see the logic behind what CF is doing there. It's helping you by stripping any extra garbage that might be associated with an integer (currency symbols etc.). As long as what's left after the garbage is stripped off validates ok, it will pass through. This relieves you of the need to do that stripping yourself. But this seems somewhat arbitrary, and could lead to unexpected results, so it's probably best not to rely on it. -- Josh This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272063 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
It does not - because CF passes along a copy of the value and not the object.value, it does not alter what's actually in the form. That's why it's such a problem. Well, that certainly blows. In cfforms' defense, I've used it to validate email addresses, and just to validate that a field wasn't empty, and it's saved me some time in those instances. I've never used it to validate an integer. I would second Massimo's validation scripts - I don't know about Dojo. Also people like qForms, although I think Massimo's stuff is more lightweight. -- Josh ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272065 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
Why not just place some decent server side stuff on it? Probably because detecting errors before the form is submitted makes form much more user friendly. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272087 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
improved js for form validation?
Does anyone know if there are improved form validation scripts available for download (yes, I know I can make my own). Specifically, if I use validate=integer, it is approving a value of 1+. Thanks This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271929 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: improved js for form validation?
Leitch, Oblio wrote: Does anyone know if there are improved form validation scripts available for download (yes, I know I can make my own). Specifically, if I use validate=integer, it is approving a value of 1+. Take a look at qForms - http://www.pengoworks.com/index.cfm?action=get:qforms ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271930 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: improved js for form validation?
I'm a fan of Massimo's tmt_validator. It's the best, simplest one I've found thus far. -Original Message- From: Leitch, Oblio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: improved js for form validation? Does anyone know if there are improved form validation scripts available for download (yes, I know I can make my own). Specifically, if I use validate=integer, it is approving a value of 1+. Thanks This email message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this email message from your computer. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:271936 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
