[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[charlie arehart]

Kai, I don't disagree with anything you say, but really none of those points
counter what I'd brought up. Perhaps you thought I was trying to argue
against what you say, but I was just responding to the specific points I
referenced in Scott's post. I wasn't saying I disagreed with everything he
said.

As for the observation that things in A/NZ may be that much different from
in the US, I will say this: I hear this all the time from all over the
world. Everyone thinks things are worse where they are (whether uptake, or
user group participation, etc.), when the truth is (I think) that things are
the same all over. I don't many developers in the community would assert
that there's any significant uptake in CF. Sure, Adobe may say there is a
huge increase in sales, and that may comfort some, but I don't think most
really think that's translating into any *significant* growth in new
developers. It's more simply (I'd think) about existing sites buying the
upgrade (though I could be wrong), and perhaps some percent of new sales. 

Again, I'm not denying what's being said here about what could be done to
increase the size of the CF community. Then again, while I accept that CF is
a much smaller community than either .NET, PHP, or Ruby. I don't let that
trouble me, myself. But I'm not denying the feelings of those who feel
otherwise.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Kai Koenig
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 11:28 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?


Charlie,

you're right with a few of your remarks and I think no one has
said Scott is totally right, let's all jump ship because MSFT
and .NET is much better anyway :-)

But imho it's reality that the recent and often talked about 
boom in CF8 sales, adoption and cool projects doesn't seem to
have arrived in total (yet) in Australia and New Zealand. I can't





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[cfaussie] Re: who is going to cf.Objective this year?

[charlie arehart]

Sorry we'll miss you, Barry. And I realize you're asking more about those in
A/NZ, but FWIW I'll say that like Mark, I'll be there and will be
presenting.

/charlie


-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Barry Beattie
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:56 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] who is going to cf.Objective this year?


just a shout out to anyone who is going to the cfobjective conference
next month...

(no, I'm not going, but I'm interested in who is)




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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[charlie arehart]

Like I said, "I'm not looking to pick a fight", so the cracking knuckles
don't scare me. :-) Look, I'm just replying to the points made. You don't
need to see each response as a challenge to "put 'em up", literally or
figuratively. Like I just said to Kai, I wasn't disagreeing with everything
you said, just the specific things I replied to. And again, I feel I must
clarify again. (You ask about FUD, which is engendering "fear, uncertainty,
and doubt", for  the kids watching at home. This is perhaps a perfect
example of it. You state things you feel to be true, from a lofty position,
when they're not quite, and when they have a tendency to assert cause for
concern when there may be none.)

 

As for the AdobeCommunityExpert/MVP issue, you say, "I wouldn't consider
having a piece of glass that says "welcome to the yearly membership",
t-shirt, pizzas and beer to be the end of it." Are you saying that's your
perception of the CE program? Again I'll argue that you're misinformed
(which is a shame, when you carry your confidence so highly). The CE program
offers many benefits, and none of them involve pizza and beer.  One can find
more about the program, including benefits, at
http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/faq.html.

 

You also say, "Right now there is a plane loads of MVP's from around the
world, being flown into Seattle to meetup at the MVP Summit", as if that's
in stark opposition to anything Adobe offers. Yet, again, it's not. There
will be an Adobe Community Summit at Adobe HQ (the 3rd annual) May 12-16.
We, too, will have access to Adobe engineers, product managers, and
executives, with the same chance to ask hard questions and get hard answers,
and to be educated to take knowledge back to the community. Just don't think
things are quite as apples/oranges as you want to make them out to be.

 

As for one of your concluding remarks, "if there is a problem here, you've
just fixed them in one email chad [I think you meant me, Charlie], yet if
there isn't well you've just strengthened the entire proposition of
Coldfusion - but what if you're wrong."  I guess I'll take the presumption
that I'm not, so perhaps I've fixed things in one email. Good. :-) But I
don't suspect you (or even others here) really think that. I'm cool with
that. Again, not looking to "win" the argument. Just debating specific
points.

 

You then say, "The point is, CF community used to be more vibrant than it is
today, and not much in the technology or ownership has changed." Wow, talk
about sweeping generalizations. Again, that's FUD. You can't defend that
assertion. The first is debatable, and the second seems just, well, again,
misinfoirmed.  You say "I follow CF8 closely as well as CF9". Well, when so
many think CF 8 has made great strides and it's been pretty unanimously
praised, this again just comes across as throwing water on an oil fire. 

 

As for, "Be clear however, there are more folks out there using alternative
langaues today than Coldfusion." Again, as I said to Kai, this just isn't a
problem for me. There are more people in the US than in Australia. More
bottles of Bud are sold worldwide than VB. So what? IT isn't a zero-sum
game. There's no one winner. Those who think there has to be are setting
themselves up for heartburn (if they're feeling left out) or over-confidence
(if they're on the winning side). I'm simply arguing that things aren't
quite as bad as some would make them out to be.

 

Like you, I'm just putting thoughts on the table. People can take them or
leave them.

 

/charlie

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:48 AM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

 

*cracks knuckles* ..oh it's on Chad, it's on like Donkey Kong! :) hehh.

 

. Adobe CE Program is as I say, Apples vs Oranges.I see firsthand
more benefits in the MVP over Adobe CE and consider it a point of difference
in our offering, now what does that have to do with the current thread.
Simply that the existing model could be improved better, i won't stipulate
exactly how as that's obviously not my job. What I am doing is trying to
tease out some folks within the community whom are wanting change, to start
thinking about the program, looking at what Microsoft MVP offers and even
evolve it further or use it as a benchmark on what not to do, either way,
start the dialogue..

I wouldn't consider having a piece of glass that says "welcome to the yearly
membership", t-shirt, pizzas and beer to be the end of it. Being recognised
as a community leader is and should be a big deal, as these are the
rockstars of your community. If you simply casually throw it out there to
random names that have no story attached to them, or no visual clear
definitive way to articulate whom they are and what they did to arrive at
such point, then how can others look to getting insight into t

[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gareth Edwards]

Scott,

Just curious, when did you learn .NET? Was it out of a book? while you
were on a Coldfusion Job? or did Microsoft train you?

Cheers
Gareth.

Scott Barnes wrote:

  Charlie,
   
  Here we go.. I'm going to keep this onpoint as best I can as I
feel it's trailing off. 
   
  In many respects, you're intent is to push the Adobe has it
under control belief, which is perfectly fine, whilst I'm on the
flipside simply saying - I really don't care if they do or they don't,
but should you wish to change, previous threads are some data points to
consider.
   
  (Apologise if I cut out some of the rant, some of it, i felt was
a little to - ahuh, and i'm not sure what made you assume I've been
under a rock for the last 10 years when it comes to Adobe/Macromedia,
but ok).
   
  
  "..(You
ask about FUD, which is engendering "fear, uncertainty, and doubt",
for  the kids watching at home. This is perhaps a perfect example of
it. You state things you feel to be true, from a lofty position, when
they're not quite, and when they have a tendency to assert cause for
concern when there may be none.).."- Charlie
  
   
  I've stated criteria in which I consider to be weaknesses in
Coldfusion, simply because in actual fact they are. If you break away
from the MXNA blog sphere over time, and listen to the outer threads of
conversations (over past 5years), compete analysis and basically
interaction with folks whom aren't favourable to Coldfusion, you'll
most likely come to a similar conclusion. Right now, for example,  If
you were to look at this from a compete situation, PHP/Ruby on Rails is
more ASP.NET
(Coldfusion doesn't even rate on the radar) competitor, given factors
like Wordpress etc play a role in online hosting. Check out Netcraft
reports if you'd like. 
   
  On a side and personal note, I personally have the belief, that
if one is to label FUD it's effectively saying " you have no
integrity and will use any underhanded tactic you can to achieve your
goals..", now for a peaceful chap like yourself whom as you say, "doesn't
want to pick a fight", you're certainly heading in the wrong
direction then.
   
  Keep in perspective, everything that one says in a forum setting
such as this will be vague, as it's human dialogue evolving as each new
point arises. At times, a negative point may arise and to note this and
simply assume that the person is then disseminating negative (and
vague) information - therefore is FUD, is well...a weak/cop out posture
to take. As I guess, I reserve the right to counter-FUD you? (is there
a stamp we can buy for that?)
   
  As in that perspective it's a case of, "say positive things
only, should you find a negative point, halt the dialogue. Respective
parties then are to go fact find, collect raw un-biased evidence, bring
it back to the dialogue in question and present, or else it will be
stamped & labeled as FUD". If that is likely to occur in this
instance, then this will be even more of long drawn out thread. Accuse
me of FUD, but substantiate it at the very least otherwise it's you
whom are disseminating negative (and vague) labels.
   
  I also say that without emotion attached (ie not with hostility,
but with more of a less deepened amount of antagonism)
   
  
  "..Are
you saying that's your perception of the CE program? Again I'll argue
that you're misinformed (which is a shame, when you carry your
confidence so highly).The CE program offers many benefits, and none of
them involve pizza and beer.." - Charlie
  
   
  Awaiting the the actual argument.. referring to the website is
weak, on two counts. It's insulting that you think i've not read
the website in which the Adobe CE program outlines these and
secondly you've not outlined what they are. To help you on this journey
further, look at Google and search for "Microsoft MVP" even the
"Microsoft MVP Summit". The point is that it scales, it's not just a
badge or a collective group of people whom meet silently, have
discussions and know inside secrets and then that's it. It gets
amplified, not just by us but also by the community. It's the community
spirit in which i'd like you to focus more in on, instead of defending
the feature matrix or quoting FAQ. 
   
  They are Apples and Oranges, simply because the MVP ethos is
made up of more segments, different technologies and overall different
approaches. Question is whether you're open to this projected theory.
 
  
  "..I'm
cool with that. Again, not looking to "win" the argument. Just debating
specific points.." - Charlie
  
   
  I agree, only the other person can let you win any argument. I
find elements of your responses to be personal & in many respects
whilst minor, insulting, my "crack the knuckles" remark was intended to
be a joke, thus i followed with the "hehe". I raise this as I'm not
sure you are just in for a debate on specific points? In that where is
your position on the matter that doesn't orbit mine?
   
  
  "..You
then say, "The point is, CF community used 

[cfaussie] Re: [OT] Dreamweaver - testing files

[Taco Fleur]

Hi Kay,

the CFM file opens up nicely on the testing server, it actually uploads the
CFM file to the testing server and opens up in the browser like expected.
But files like CSS and JS do not upload to the testing server. Not even when
I PUT or check in the files.

When I check the files in they go to source safe, not to the testing server.

Currently I have the following to overcome this issue; local is set to the
same path as the testing server. Before this I had it setup so that the
local files are on my computer, remote was source safe, and testing was the
testing server.


On 4/12/08, Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean... when you upload a file open it
> will go to whichever 'view' you last had selected. So if you've
> specified a testing server, and choose 'testing server view' from the
> drop down at the top of the files panel, then when you hit 'put'
> (ctrl-shift-u) it will go to the testing server. If you change to
> 'remote view' at the top of the files panel, hitting ctrl-shift-u will
> then upload to that server instead.
>
> If you want to upload "dependent" files that DW recognises
> automatically (eg includes, css/js files etc) then in
> Preferences->Site there's two checkboxes for dependent files - prompt
> on get/checkout and prompt on put/checkin. If you check those boxes,
> then when you put your file to the remote site, a dialog comes up and
> you can choose "Yes" and "don't show again" so it happens
> automatically in future.
>
> If you just want to find files that have changed, you can go to the
> files tree, right-click->select->recently modified (or there's other
> options for newer local, newer remote, checked out etc) and then 'put'
> those.
>
> Those options are in CS3 and all previous versions down to MX/6, I think.
>
> Does that help at all?
> K.
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I'm almost ashamed for asking this (since I've been using DW for years)!
> >
> > I have the following setup for a site:
> > - Local info = Local machine
> > - Remote info = Visual Source Safe
> > - Testing server = ColdFusion Server
> >
> > To test a CFM file I click F12 which works fine, it uploads the CFM file
> to
> > the test server. But I can't figure out how to upload other files
> together
> > with the page that have changed, other than manually uploading them.
> > Does anyone know the secret I'm missing here?
> >
> > --
> > Try advertising on the new Australian Business Directory
> > www.clickfind.com.au
> > blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/
> >  Web Designers > http://www.web-designers-australia.com
> >  >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kay Smoljak
> business: www.cleverstarfish.com
> coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
> personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com
>
> >
>


-- 
Try advertising on the new Australian Business Directory
www.clickfind.com.au
blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/
Web Designers > http://www.web-designers-australia.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[charlie arehart]

Oh it's trailing off, all right, and honestly I don't see the point in
contributing any further to the headaches which surely must be arising from
this. 

 

Let me state for the record: I'm not anti-Microsoft. I'm not even anti
ASP.NET. I'm also not anti-Scott. 

 

I was just refuting specific statements. I leave them to stand for all to
judge. This, too, is not a zero-sum debate.

 

/charlie

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:32 AM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

 

Charlie,

 

Here we go.. I'm going to keep this onpoint as best I can as I feel it's
trailing off. 


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Scott Barnes]

You Win :)



On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:18 AM, charlie arehart <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Oh it's trailing off, all right, and honestly I don't see the point in
> contributing any further to the headaches which surely must be arising from
> this.
>
>
>
> Let me state for the record: I'm not anti-Microsoft. I'm not even anti
> ASP.NET . I'm also not anti-Scott.
>
>
>
> I was just refuting specific statements. I leave them to stand for all to
> judge. This, too, is not a zero-sum debate.
>
>
>
> /charlie
>
>
>
> *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:32 AM
> *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not
> FUD from them too?
>
>
>
> Charlie,
>
>
>
> Here we go.. I'm going to keep this onpoint as best I can as I feel it's
> trailing off.
>
> >
>


-- 
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[barry.b]

> Barry:Would you say it's been happening for what? 5+ years now?

I'd really like to respond to this chapter-and-verse at the moment but
I'm really pushed for time...

but I will say that (IMHO) Kay Smoljak is right on the money: The
issue isn't a religious war. it's not good Vs evil or red team  Vs
blue - unless you're a shareholder of Adobe or Microsoft (hey Scott -
shares in the company are part of your package, yes?)

for everyone else, a particular technology is an enabler. That's all.

Sure people have their preference - and I came kicking and screaming
into CF late 2002 (CF6.0/Redsky/CF6.1), grudgingly used it then like
it and stayed for the ride. Meanwhile I'd been using ASP (classic) and
had been part of the ASP.NET public beta up to it's release where I
deamed ASP.NET 1.0 a pile of rubbish and turned my back on it (it was
the infinite post-backs as one reason that killed it for me although I
really like some things in C# - it has what Java should)

but it's noteworthy to see that when I was a CF-noob, "old hands" like
Gary Menzel were active in the community - now Vaughn and the guys are
migrating (have migrated?) to Java and are nowhere to be seen in the
CF world. People move on, situations change.

"ColdFusion - he's just this guy, y'know?"

don't get me wrong, for mine, CF is the best darn bang-for-buck I can
get. But if you asked a question of which web-based technology is
"best" then you'll not get one single answer: as Sean Corfield often
says "it depends!". there's still a ton of dynamic web apps written in
VBScript (ASP classic - depricated in 2003). Ford Vs Holden, anyone?

and, leaning heavily on the capabilities of the little Flash Player,
Adobe are starting to get together an interesting technology stack
suitable for the "digital media" world (although the mess of LiveCycle
with DS and ES, et al, needs to be sorted - too confusing for
managers). It makes the ownership of CF by Adobe that (seems to start
to) have good flow-on effects.

so when it comes to job choices, platform can a modifier. ie: you take
a dev job with a CF flavour.

1) enabler: the technology becomes the vehicle for people to do things
better/faster, etc.
2) enabler: the technology is a joy to use so it gives job
statisfaction doing things.
3) enabler: the technology has the platform longevity to keep you
doing this for as long as you need it to.

and I have no doubt that coding CF could give me both for many years
to come. I support the technology to do my bit in it thriving into the
future. I have no shares in Adobe so the long-term outcome for me is
purely future employment.

which is why I try and get people interested in CFUG's, etc - being
active in ensuring the platform has logevity and providing job
security by platform security, instead of being a passenger blown
along with the winds... (as well as keeping skills up (1) which leads
to better results (2))

but...

 if you were hunting for a job, would you follow the technology stack
and hang the industry it's used in? Keep in mind the further you
progress through the ranks, the less important specific technology
becomes as you need to manage outcomes and what the technology has to
do as business needs change/grow (as Gary Menzel realised - and
planned for - a couple of years ago).

or would you follow the path of the industry you know well and that
you can apply your skills and domain knowledge into and then use the
technology to enable outcomes?

Idealy you'd seek one that would do both ... but as I'm finding,
they're hard to come by.



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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Joel Cass]

Whoa. You fall asleep for a couple of days and this happens.

Strongly agree with Scott and Kay. Don't lock yourself into CF. It's
very good but there are newer and (should I say) better technologies out
there.

However, the web has not changed much. Sure there's all the hype with
web 2.0, 2.0.1, 3.0 etc etc but it's still just HTML displayed in a
browser. Even "rich media" tools like flex don't do much more than HTML
does right now.

Get into the wider web community - definitely. Try coding with another
language for a while and get out into the wider community. It might put
some of your worries to ease.

Most likely Adobe knows they have a niche and they will probably destroy
CF in the end (just download the latest version of reader to see where
they're going - less features, more bugs). Perhaps the recruiter has a
point.

But think of all the time you all spent writing messages on this forum.
Eventually they will be lost, all meaningless, like chasing the wind.
Meanwhile you could have installed PHP or started to read up on .net or
java.


I'm just disgruntled because I'm studying .net at the moment and using
the PDF version to read the book on my laptop. Downloaded the latest
reader yesterday (it was an "important" security update of 22.4 mb!),
and now it crashes every 5 pages and I have to reopen, redo all my
settings (everything is hidden by default and it doesn't save settings
even on a graceful exit), find the page I was up to, and keep going.
Personally, this is not encouraging to see in an Adobe "flagship"
product.


-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of barry.b
Sent: Monday, 14 April 2008 10:28 AM
To: cfaussie
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not
FUD from them too?




> Barry:Would you say it's been happening for what? 5+ years now?

I'd really like to respond to this chapter-and-verse at the moment but
I'm really pushed for time...

but I will say that (IMHO) Kay Smoljak is right on the money: The
issue isn't a religious war. it's not good Vs evil or red team  Vs
blue - unless you're a shareholder of Adobe or Microsoft (hey Scott -
shares in the company are part of your package, yes?)

for everyone else, a particular technology is an enabler. That's all.

Sure people have their preference - and I came kicking and screaming
into CF late 2002 (CF6.0/Redsky/CF6.1), grudgingly used it then like
it and stayed for the ride. Meanwhile I'd been using ASP (classic) and
had been part of the ASP.NET public beta up to it's release where I
deamed ASP.NET 1.0 a pile of rubbish and turned my back on it (it was
the infinite post-backs as one reason that killed it for me although I
really like some things in C# - it has what Java should)

but it's noteworthy to see that when I was a CF-noob, "old hands" like
Gary Menzel were active in the community - now Vaughn and the guys are
migrating (have migrated?) to Java and are nowhere to be seen in the
CF world. People move on, situations change.

"ColdFusion - he's just this guy, y'know?"

don't get me wrong, for mine, CF is the best darn bang-for-buck I can
get. But if you asked a question of which web-based technology is
"best" then you'll not get one single answer: as Sean Corfield often
says "it depends!". there's still a ton of dynamic web apps written in
VBScript (ASP classic - depricated in 2003). Ford Vs Holden, anyone?

and, leaning heavily on the capabilities of the little Flash Player,
Adobe are starting to get together an interesting technology stack
suitable for the "digital media" world (although the mess of LiveCycle
with DS and ES, et al, needs to be sorted - too confusing for
managers). It makes the ownership of CF by Adobe that (seems to start
to) have good flow-on effects.

so when it comes to job choices, platform can a modifier. ie: you take
a dev job with a CF flavour.

1) enabler: the technology becomes the vehicle for people to do things
better/faster, etc.
2) enabler: the technology is a joy to use so it gives job
statisfaction doing things.
3) enabler: the technology has the platform longevity to keep you
doing this for as long as you need it to.

and I have no doubt that coding CF could give me both for many years
to come. I support the technology to do my bit in it thriving into the
future. I have no shares in Adobe so the long-term outcome for me is
purely future employment.

which is why I try and get people interested in CFUG's, etc - being
active in ensuring the platform has logevity and providing job
security by platform security, instead of being a passenger blown
along with the winds... (as well as keeping skills up (1) which leads
to better results (2))

but...

 if you were hunting for a job, would you follow the technology stack
and hang the industry it's used in? Keep in mind the further you
progress through the ranks, the less important specific technology
becomes as you need to manage outcomes and what the technology has to
do as bu

[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Dale Fraser]

At the end of the day, ColdFusion is dead until Adobe stop making new
versions.

Since they just released Version 8 and are working on Version 9. It just
isn't dead.

Companies don't spend millions of dollars on dead products.

So if we wish to discuss dead products, let's talk about Turbo Pascal or
something else that really is dead.

Regards
Dale Fraser

-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of barry.b
Sent: Monday, 14 April 2008 10:28 AM
To: cfaussie
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?




> Barry:Would you say it's been happening for what? 5+ years now?

I'd really like to respond to this chapter-and-verse at the moment but
I'm really pushed for time...

but I will say that (IMHO) Kay Smoljak is right on the money: The
issue isn't a religious war. it's not good Vs evil or red team  Vs
blue - unless you're a shareholder of Adobe or Microsoft (hey Scott -
shares in the company are part of your package, yes?)

for everyone else, a particular technology is an enabler. That's all.

Sure people have their preference - and I came kicking and screaming
into CF late 2002 (CF6.0/Redsky/CF6.1), grudgingly used it then like
it and stayed for the ride. Meanwhile I'd been using ASP (classic) and
had been part of the ASP.NET public beta up to it's release where I
deamed ASP.NET 1.0 a pile of rubbish and turned my back on it (it was
the infinite post-backs as one reason that killed it for me although I
really like some things in C# - it has what Java should)

but it's noteworthy to see that when I was a CF-noob, "old hands" like
Gary Menzel were active in the community - now Vaughn and the guys are
migrating (have migrated?) to Java and are nowhere to be seen in the
CF world. People move on, situations change.

"ColdFusion - he's just this guy, y'know?"

don't get me wrong, for mine, CF is the best darn bang-for-buck I can
get. But if you asked a question of which web-based technology is
"best" then you'll not get one single answer: as Sean Corfield often
says "it depends!". there's still a ton of dynamic web apps written in
VBScript (ASP classic - depricated in 2003). Ford Vs Holden, anyone?

and, leaning heavily on the capabilities of the little Flash Player,
Adobe are starting to get together an interesting technology stack
suitable for the "digital media" world (although the mess of LiveCycle
with DS and ES, et al, needs to be sorted - too confusing for
managers). It makes the ownership of CF by Adobe that (seems to start
to) have good flow-on effects.

so when it comes to job choices, platform can a modifier. ie: you take
a dev job with a CF flavour.

1) enabler: the technology becomes the vehicle for people to do things
better/faster, etc.
2) enabler: the technology is a joy to use so it gives job
statisfaction doing things.
3) enabler: the technology has the platform longevity to keep you
doing this for as long as you need it to.

and I have no doubt that coding CF could give me both for many years
to come. I support the technology to do my bit in it thriving into the
future. I have no shares in Adobe so the long-term outcome for me is
purely future employment.

which is why I try and get people interested in CFUG's, etc - being
active in ensuring the platform has logevity and providing job
security by platform security, instead of being a passenger blown
along with the winds... (as well as keeping skills up (1) which leads
to better results (2))

but...

 if you were hunting for a job, would you follow the technology stack
and hang the industry it's used in? Keep in mind the further you
progress through the ranks, the less important specific technology
becomes as you need to manage outcomes and what the technology has to
do as business needs change/grow (as Gary Menzel realised - and
planned for - a couple of years ago).

or would you follow the path of the industry you know well and that
you can apply your skills and domain knowledge into and then use the
technology to enable outcomes?

Idealy you'd seek one that would do both ... but as I'm finding,
they're hard to come by.






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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Scott Barnes]

*Q. How did we arrive at the conclusion CF Server = Dead. The perception and
topic at hand is the community around the product in a state of
decomposition? If so, how does one fix it. Not "oh dear, Adobe are going to
abandon Coldfusion?"*

I have serious doubts Coldfusion in it's essence will die off or be
depreciated, it may one day down the track - whom knows - go through a brand
adjustment, but overall this product is a socket influence for Adobe when it
comes to both tail-end (web) and corporate to Enterprise markets. In that,
it provides hooks to both Adobe Flash technology and Adobe Live Cycle - the
glue if you will. That being said, the folks whom are likely to build in
Coldfusion are also likely to promote and evangelise the Adobe
Flash/LiveCycle product ranges within the said install location - so it's
got many positives for Adobe.

The kicking point for Coldfusion however is, maturity in the folks whom
provide solutions around it. If you're community leaders are migrating away
into other technologies, then in turn the solution maturity will begin to
drop off - bad experiences can be had with the brand and in that case that
will be a tipping point for Adobe to decide an alternative strategy or
albeit, re-energise their existing army to breed more.

The thing is, this whole technology industry is very similar to building an
Army. You train troops, you deploy them into battle. Those that make it back
alive have gained experience etc, the trick now is to start looking at
promoting them through awards/medals but also start to think about a career
path for them in terms of breaking the experienced leaders into their own
platoons. Separate, Divide, Repeat.

That's my point of contention, i am yet to personally see this methodology
applied, as Barry put it - Gary and his crew are moving off into Java. The
Suncorp guys are moved off onto other things (Darren doesn't do 24/7
Coldfusion i'd wager either), most of my friends are doing the exactly the
same thing. Question now remains is there a workforce coming in behind them
to replenish their ranks? Is Barry Beattie for one himself teaching a junior
right now how to make his / her mark with Coldfusion..

Scott.



On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Dale Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> At the end of the day, ColdFusion is dead until Adobe stop making new
> versions.
>
> Since they just released Version 8 and are working on Version 9. It just
> isn't dead.
>
> Companies don't spend millions of dollars on dead products.
>
> So if we wish to discuss dead products, let's talk about Turbo Pascal or
> something else that really is dead.
>
> Regards
> Dale Fraser
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf
> Of barry.b
> Sent: Monday, 14 April 2008 10:28 AM
> To: cfaussie
> Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not
> FUD
> from them too?
>
>
>
>
>  > Barry:Would you say it's been happening for what? 5+ years now?
>
> I'd really like to respond to this chapter-and-verse at the moment but
> I'm really pushed for time...
>
> but I will say that (IMHO) Kay Smoljak is right on the money: The
> issue isn't a religious war. it's not good Vs evil or red team  Vs
> blue - unless you're a shareholder of Adobe or Microsoft (hey Scott -
> shares in the company are part of your package, yes?)
>
> for everyone else, a particular technology is an enabler. That's all.
>
> Sure people have their preference - and I came kicking and screaming
> into CF late 2002 (CF6.0/Redsky/CF6.1), grudgingly used it then like
> it and stayed for the ride. Meanwhile I'd been using ASP (classic) and
> had been part of the ASP.NET  public beta up to it's
> release where I
> deamed ASP.NET  1.0 a pile of rubbish and turned my back
> on it (it was
> the infinite post-backs as one reason that killed it for me although I
> really like some things in C# - it has what Java should)
>
> but it's noteworthy to see that when I was a CF-noob, "old hands" like
> Gary Menzel were active in the community - now Vaughn and the guys are
> migrating (have migrated?) to Java and are nowhere to be seen in the
> CF world. People move on, situations change.
>
> "ColdFusion - he's just this guy, y'know?"
>
> don't get me wrong, for mine, CF is the best darn bang-for-buck I can
> get. But if you asked a question of which web-based technology is
> "best" then you'll not get one single answer: as Sean Corfield often
> says "it depends!". there's still a ton of dynamic web apps written in
> VBScript (ASP classic - depricated in 2003). Ford Vs Holden, anyone?
>
> and, leaning heavily on the capabilities of the little Flash Player,
> Adobe are starting to get together an interesting technology stack
> suitable for the "digital media" world (although the mess of LiveCycle
> with DS and ES, et al, needs to be sorted - too confusing for
> managers). It makes the ownership of CF by Adobe that (seems to sta

[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Detect]

> Strongly agree with Scott and Kay. Don't lock yourself into CF. It's
> very good but there are newer and (should I say) better technologies out
> there.


Just curious, what technologies are you referring to here?
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[cfaussie] Re: [OT] Dreamweaver - testing files

[Kay Smoljak]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But files like CSS and JS do not upload to the testing server.

Do the CFM files you are working with directly reference the CSS and
JS files? If not, you'll have to handle that manually... but if they
do, then you can reset the preference item for dependent files and
that should fix your issue.

Cheers,
K.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Joel Cass]

I only say better because they are newer. CF hasn't changed much in the
last 7 or so years since MX. But outside of CF a lot has changed in the
past 7 years, brings me to the conclusion that CF is "dated". 

Plus I really am starting to like the flexibility and features of other
languages, eg. OO features of .net and java, the plethora of
functionality in PHP (thanks to it being open source).

But CF is still really, really good.

-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Detect
Sent: Monday, 14 April 2008 11:10 AM
To: cfaussie
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not
FUD from them too?



> Strongly agree with Scott and Kay. Don't lock yourself into CF. It's
> very good but there are newer and (should I say) better technologies
out
> there.


Just curious, what technologies are you referring to here?


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Kay Smoljak]

Dammit, I wasn't going to get involved in this thread past my blog
post about it 
(http://kay.smoljak.com/index.php/opening-up-the-coldfusion-community/)...
but now I have to speak up!

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joel Cass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Plus I really am starting to like the flexibility and features of other
>  languages, eg. OO features of .net and java,

CF has OO. CF is more OO than Java according to Sean Corfield's
article in that latest FAQ-U (Vol II, Issue III, pg 7) because it has
the onMissingMethod handler like SmallTalk and Ruby.

> the plethora of functionality in PHP (thanks to it being open source).

CF has built in PDF, FTP, image handling, ExtJS grids/trees/etc,
encryption, etc etc. What does PHP have that CF doesn't (apart from a
whole stack of inconsistent and redundant functions)?

Don't get me wrong, I like PHP and use it a lot, but CF is truly state
of the art. I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
a great deal.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com

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[cfaussie] Re: rocketunit, and the cfmeetup (was RE: [cfaussie] cfpdf action="merge" - CF 8 Update 1)

[Robin Hilliard]

> So Robin, would you be interested in offering a talk on it at a  
> meeting of the Online ColdFusion Meetup (coldfusionmeetup.com)? I’d  
> welcome having you. We’ve had talks recently on MXUnit and CFCUnit.  
> Given your assertion of how much easier it is, it may be greatly  
> appreciated by many.

Love to, let me know when.  Anything we can do to promote test driven  
development is a good thing - that's why I wrote it in the first place.

Robin

ROBIN HILLIARD
Chief Executive Officer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RocketBoots Pty Ltd
Level 11
189 Kent Street
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
Phone +61 2 9323 2507
Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501
Mobile +61 418 414 341
www.rocketboots.com.au  
 
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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[barry.b]

> I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
> a great deal.

and
easy integration to Java code and .NET DLL's and MSExchange
cfdocument
cfreport
cfpresentation
cfmxml
remoting
webservices

everyone knows this sure, but sometimes it gets forgotten that it's
coming from/via just one vendor, not a bunch of ad-hoc libraries with
"iffy" dependancies to worry about (or diff versions for that
matter)**. One licence for the lot.

year before last: I had an ASP.NET/C# app I wanted to migrate from
using .NET 1.1 to 2.0 but I couldn't - it wasn't cost effective to
change it and fix the breakages. ColdFusion has the best backwards
compatability - per version - of a product I've ever used. Including
Windows.






On Apr 14, 12:32 pm, "Kay Smoljak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dammit, I wasn't going to get involved in this thread past my blog
> post about it 
> (http://kay.smoljak.com/index.php/opening-up-the-coldfusion-community/)...
> but now I have to speak up!
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joel Cass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Plus I really am starting to like the flexibility and features of other
> >  languages, eg. OO features of .net and java,
>
> CF has OO. CF is more OO than Java according to Sean Corfield's
> article in that latest FAQ-U (Vol II, Issue III, pg 7) because it has
> the onMissingMethod handler like SmallTalk and Ruby.
>
> > the plethora of functionality in PHP (thanks to it being open source).
>
> CF has built in PDF, FTP, image handling, ExtJS grids/trees/etc,
> encryption, etc etc. What does PHP have that CF doesn't (apart from a
> whole stack of inconsistent and redundant functions)?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I like PHP and use it a lot, but CF is truly state
> of the art. I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
> a great deal.
>
> --
> Kay Smoljak
> business:www.cleverstarfish.com
> coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
> personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com
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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gary Barber]

I've tried to resist... But I can't!

So CF has got all these great features, so what are YOU yes YOU going to 
do about it.  Just go back to day job and smile that only YOU know how 
great Coldfusion is.  Humm.  Thought about telling someone else besides 
your CF mates.

Considered a light hearted Coldfusion shootout at the next local Barcamp 
or equivalent  :)

-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



barry.b wrote:
>> I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
>> a great deal.
>> 
>
> and
> easy integration to Java code and .NET DLL's and MSExchange
> cfdocument
> cfreport
> cfpresentation
> cfmxml
> remoting
> webservices
>
> everyone knows this sure, but sometimes it gets forgotten that it's
> coming from/via just one vendor, not a bunch of ad-hoc libraries with
> "iffy" dependancies to worry about (or diff versions for that
> matter)**. One licence for the lot.
>
> year before last: I had an ASP.NET/C# app I wanted to migrate from
> using .NET 1.1 to 2.0 but I couldn't - it wasn't cost effective to
> change it and fix the breakages. ColdFusion has the best backwards
> compatability - per version - of a product I've ever used. Including
> Windows.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 12:32 pm, "Kay Smoljak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Dammit, I wasn't going to get involved in this thread past my blog
>> post about it 
>> (http://kay.smoljak.com/index.php/opening-up-the-coldfusion-community/)...
>> but now I have to speak up!
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joel Cass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>>  Plus I really am starting to like the flexibility and features of other
>>>  languages, eg. OO features of .net and java,
>>>   
>> CF has OO. CF is more OO than Java according to Sean Corfield's
>> article in that latest FAQ-U (Vol II, Issue III, pg 7) because it has
>> the onMissingMethod handler like SmallTalk and Ruby.
>>
>> 
>>> the plethora of functionality in PHP (thanks to it being open source).
>>>   
>> CF has built in PDF, FTP, image handling, ExtJS grids/trees/etc,
>> encryption, etc etc. What does PHP have that CF doesn't (apart from a
>> whole stack of inconsistent and redundant functions)?
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, I like PHP and use it a lot, but CF is truly state
>> of the art. I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
>> a great deal.
>>
>> --
>> Kay Smoljak
>> business:www.cleverstarfish.com
>> coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
>> personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com
>> 
> >
>
>   


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Scott Barnes]

ahhh.. now this is a better conclusion to this thread..

You know on a side note and personal note, when I read internally someone
berating Coldfusion (simply because at times they don't know) i catch myself
evangelising it  or correcting them on it. Now, do what you will with that,
but I get a bit of a chuckle out of it.

Nice blog posts folks.. and Kay, I am the devil.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> I've tried to resist... But I can't!
>
> So CF has got all these great features, so what are YOU yes YOU going to
> do about it.  Just go back to day job and smile that only YOU know how
> great Coldfusion is.  Humm.  Thought about telling someone else besides
> your CF mates.
>
> Considered a light hearted Coldfusion shootout at the next local Barcamp
> or equivalent  :)
>
> --
> Gary Barber
> Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect
>
> Web: radharc.com.au
> blog: manwithnoblog.com
>
>
>
> barry.b wrote:
> >> I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
> >> a great deal.
> >>
> >
> > and
> > easy integration to Java code and .NET DLL's and MSExchange
> > cfdocument
> > cfreport
> > cfpresentation
> > cfmxml
> > remoting
> > webservices
> >
> > everyone knows this sure, but sometimes it gets forgotten that it's
> > coming from/via just one vendor, not a bunch of ad-hoc libraries with
> > "iffy" dependancies to worry about (or diff versions for that
> > matter)**. One licence for the lot.
> >
> > year before last: I had an ASP.NET/C#  app I wanted
> to migrate from
> > using .NET 1.1 to 2.0 but I couldn't - it wasn't cost effective to
> > change it and fix the breakages. ColdFusion has the best backwards
> > compatability - per version - of a product I've ever used. Including
> > Windows.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 14, 12:32 pm, "Kay Smoljak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Dammit, I wasn't going to get involved in this thread past my blog
> >> post about it (
> http://kay.smoljak.com/index.php/opening-up-the-coldfusion-community/)...
> >> but now I have to speak up!
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joel Cass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  Plus I really am starting to like the flexibility and features of
> other
> >>>  languages, eg. OO features of .net and java,
> >>>
> >> CF has OO. CF is more OO than Java according to Sean Corfield's
> >> article in that latest FAQ-U (Vol II, Issue III, pg 7) because it has
> >> the onMissingMethod handler like SmallTalk and Ruby.
> >>
> >>
> >>> the plethora of functionality in PHP (thanks to it being open source).
> >>>
> >> CF has built in PDF, FTP, image handling, ExtJS grids/trees/etc,
> >> encryption, etc etc. What does PHP have that CF doesn't (apart from a
> >> whole stack of inconsistent and redundant functions)?
> >>
> >> Don't get me wrong, I like PHP and use it a lot, but CF is truly state
> >> of the art. I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed
> >> a great deal.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kay Smoljak
> >> business:www.cleverstarfish.com
> >> coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
> >> personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com
> >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>


-- 
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Robin Hilliard]

On 12/04/2008, at 11:04 AM, Peter Robertson wrote:

>  Is CF holding any
> kind of parity in the market overall, or is some absolute growth just
> a default in a growing market?  (I dunno, just asking).


Remember the domain counts I posted a while back?  That was 100%  
growth in .au domain names with cfm pages over the period 2004-2007  
indexed by Google.


ROBIN HILLIARD
Chief Executive Officer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RocketBoots Pty Ltd
Level 11
189 Kent Street
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
Phone +61 2 9323 2507
Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501
Mobile +61 418 414 341
www.rocketboots.com.au

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Scott Barnes]

Robin,

Domain statistics don't factor into whether or not the said product is
growing or the community is growing. Owning 20 sites per client that mirror
the same code base is flawed theory. You need to factor in actual server
share (ie how buoyant is the ISP industry with it etc), Developer NSAT's and
above all and most important of all, partner growth (whom are using it, why,
where and how is it helped them increase profit margins).

Deployment is evidence but it can be false positive is all ;)


On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Robin Hilliard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> On 12/04/2008, at 11:04 AM, Peter Robertson wrote:
>
> >  Is CF holding any
> > kind of parity in the market overall, or is some absolute growth just
> > a default in a growing market?  (I dunno, just asking).
>
>
> Remember the domain counts I posted a while back?  That was 100%
> growth in .au domain names with cfm pages over the period 2004-2007
> indexed by Google.
>
>
> ROBIN HILLIARD
> Chief Executive Officer
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> RocketBoots Pty Ltd
> Level 11
> 189 Kent Street
> Sydney NSW 2001
> Australia
> Phone +61 2 9323 2507
> Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501
> Mobile +61 418 414 341
> www.rocketboots.com.au
>
> >
>


-- 
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Robin Hilliard]

On 14/04/2008, at 1:40 PM, Scott Barnes wrote:
> Deployment is evidence but it can be false positive is all ;)


Sure, (we did in fact count individual IPs the second time but not the  
first, so can't compare) - but it was rather excellent growth in  
deployment, none the less :-).

Between reading this thread and responding to some rather uninformed  
criticism of Cairngorm over on iconara.net this is turning out to be a  
"community" day.  Can I just second Gary's call to get out there in  
the community - it's YOUR technology, YOUR career.  Don't leave it up  
to the small business people (who seem to grasp this connection with  
income) and UG managers (who on any reasonable cost/benefit analysis  
must simply be stark, raving, bonkers).

What's an evening a month - if you haven't noticed night time  
television these days is crap.

Robin


ROBIN HILLIARD
Chief Executive Officer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RocketBoots Pty Ltd
Level 11
189 Kent Street
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
Phone +61 2 9323 2507
Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501
Mobile +61 418 414 341
www.rocketboots.com.au  






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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Scott Barnes]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Robin Hilliard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
>  Between reading this thread and responding to some rather
> uninformed criticism of Cairngorm over on iconara.net this is turning out
> to
>

He's not misinformed, Theo has some quite unique and valid perspective on
the matter. I'd encourage you to listen to his critique more and also look
beyond that post to other posts his made (i've been following his blog for
quite some time, and they guys the type of engineer/architect Flex should
have more of). design patterns enriching frameworks can be a positive and a
negative but more importantly folks need to not just focus on a destination,
but also the journey it took to arrive there.


>  be a "community" day.  Can I just second Gary's call to get out there in
> the community - it's YOUR technology, YOUR career.  Don't leave it up to the
> small business people (who seem to grasp this connection with income) and UG
> managers (who on any reasonable cost/benefit analysis must simply be stark,
> raving, bonkers).
>
> What's an evening a month - if you haven't noticed night time television
> these days is crap.
>

Agreed. I've just spent a year living breathing the communities and I've got
more friends, more contacts and learned more from it all. It's not a geeky
experience once you break away from the agendas and simply get to know
folks. Have fun with the communities and don't take things so serious is my
advice to all (even visit Perth.. heheh, i must get there again before i
depart to the US)

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[cfaussie] Re: Schedule tasks in CF8 Cluster

[AJ Mercer]

you can.

We did this so that if instance 1 dies, the task will at least get run 3
times an hour

it also spreads the work around - would be more significant for processes
that thumped the server and run more frequently.


On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 4:13 PM, George Lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well, why can't you just run the task in instance 1 only (don't run it in
> all other instances) every 15 mins?
>
> On 11/04/2008, AJ Mercer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > If you schedule them for same time, they will both fire off at the same
> > time - can your script handle two simultaneous calls?
> >
> > We have four instances and a task we want run every 15 minutes
> > So instance 1 runs at 00
> >  instance 2 runs at 15
> >  instance 3 runs at 30
> >  instance 4 runs at 45
> >
> > Think of each instance as a separate CF server
> > Even though they may share the same code
> > they each have their own APPLICATION scope
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM, George Lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I've got two instances (instance1 & 2) in a cluster on a CF8 server.
> > > My question is should I enable schedule tasks in both instances or just 
> > > one
> > > of instances?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > George
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > AJ Mercer
> > Web Log: http://webonix.net
> >
> >
>
> >
>


-- 

AJ Mercer
Web Log: http://webonix.net

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[barry.b]

"Can I just second Gary's call to get out there in
the community - it's YOUR technology, YOUR career. "


well, it took 100+ posts to come around to this being the best way to
shut up the doom-sayers (inc recruters may have assumptions we all
disagree with) 

but we got there in the end.

here endith the lesson.



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[cfaussie] VPS recommendations?

[michael sharman]

Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a VPS provider. Can anyone recommend a mid-level
package that they've had good experience with?

Basic requirements
---

OS: Can be either Windows (I'll be using Apache anyway) or Linux
Location: Sydney is ideal but price *is* an issue so happy and willing
to go overseas
RAM: 1GB+
Disk space: 40GB+
Bandwidth: 100GB+

Basically I'll be running ColdFusion (possibly multi instance), MySQL
and a mail server, but the machine won't be sending a tonne of email.

I've found a lot of plans which offer a whopping 256MB RAM for $100
per month! Wow thanks, can I operate a browser with that too? Man I'm
going into the hosting biz :)
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[cfaussie] Re: VPS recommendations?

[Zac Spitzer]

a quick google and then off via ad words found this for $100 pretty
much matching your requirements

http://www.web24.com.au/vps/204/linux_vps.html

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:52 PM, michael sharman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Hi guys,
>
>  I'm in the market for a VPS provider. Can anyone recommend a mid-level
>  package that they've had good experience with?
>
>  Basic requirements
>  ---
>
>  OS: Can be either Windows (I'll be using Apache anyway) or Linux
>  Location: Sydney is ideal but price *is* an issue so happy and willing
>  to go overseas
>  RAM: 1GB+
>  Disk space: 40GB+
>  Bandwidth: 100GB+
>
>  Basically I'll be running ColdFusion (possibly multi instance), MySQL
>  and a mail server, but the machine won't be sending a tonne of email.
>
>  I've found a lot of plans which offer a whopping 256MB RAM for $100
>  per month! Wow thanks, can I operate a browser with that too? Man I'm
>  going into the hosting biz :)
>  >
>



-- 
Zac Spitzer -
http://zacster.blogspot.com (My Blog)
+61 405 847 168

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[cfaussie] Re: VPS recommendations?

[michael sharman]

Thanks Zac, I did see that one. Seemed one of the more reasonable ones
I came across.

I just wanted to know if anyone has personally used any that they'd
recommend.

Michael

On Apr 14, 2:58 pm, "Zac Spitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> a quick google and then off via ad words found this for $100 pretty
> much matching your requirements
>
> http://www.web24.com.au/vps/204/linux_vps.html
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:52 PM, michael sharman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >  Hi guys,
>
> >  I'm in the market for a VPS provider. Can anyone recommend a mid-level
> >  package that they've had good experience with?
>
> >  Basic requirements
> >  ---
>
> >  OS: Can be either Windows (I'll be using Apache anyway) or Linux
> >  Location: Sydney is ideal but price *is* an issue so happy and willing
> >  to go overseas
> >  RAM: 1GB+
> >  Disk space: 40GB+
> >  Bandwidth: 100GB+
>
> >  Basically I'll be running ColdFusion (possibly multi instance), MySQL
> >  and a mail server, but the machine won't be sending a tonne of email.
>
> >  I've found a lot of plans which offer a whopping 256MB RAM for $100
> >  per month! Wow thanks, can I operate a browser with that too? Man I'm
> >  going into the hosting biz :)
>
> --
> Zac Spitzer -http://zacster.blogspot.com(My Blog)
> +61 405 847 168
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[cfaussie] Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

[Owen West]

I have been reading the release notes and install guides (I know, but I
needed to get some sleep and that seemed like the best way)  :-)
 
It does mention that there are about 77 different combinations of
64-bit and 32-bit CF and IIS and Apache...you need to install the proper
web server connectors, and also make sure you use the proper connectors
when connecting to your web server, depending on whether you have 64 or
32 bit parts...it all seems a bit confusing really...
 
Then again, maybe this is just Vista being Vista?
 
Owen West  MCP MCAD MCSD
Computer Programmer 
Applications Development Team
Information Technology & Telecommunications
Hunter New England Health
Ph: (02) 4921 4194
Fax: (02) 4921 4191
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


>>> "CyberAngel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/04/2008 5:23 pm >>>

Ok
 
If anyone is interested this seems to be a bug in the installer. I have
Apache running on this machine and the only way to have it run was to
have the pools run in 32bit mode. So the support of 32 bit was enabled.
 
The installer seems to not know this and adjust accordingly, maybe
right maybe not.
 
So when I switched the connectors to use 32 bit for coldfusion bingo,
the cfm sites worked again. The moment I switched these pools to not
enabled 32 bit the sites no longer worked. Until I switched the 32 bit
upport for coldfusion connectors off.
 
Oh well 4 hours of frustration and installing, but why the hell it
seems to want to work this way in the release version was beyond me.
 
Problem solved, so if anyone else runs into this you'll have another KB
for you tools of how to for Vista 64bit and Coldfusion 8J
 
 
 
 
From:cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 12:15 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com 
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

 

Well this maybe a "after the fact" tip, but in future i'd recommend you
install beta products on virtual machines. In the event an RTM/RTW
occurs you can swap out your code base on a fresh install.

 

Thus removing the headache your in now ;)

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

No it shouldn't but it does for some unknown reason...
 
 
 
From:cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 12:02 PM 


To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com 
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

 

my humble apologies ;) i missed the beta context. It shouldn't make a
difference but... whom knows.

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Scott...
 
Did you miss the point of me saying that I had the Beta installed and
working fine? And did you miss that I downloaded nte new 64bit release?
 
And I thought you we had been on a role and you go and do that to meJ
 
For everyone else's info, I can install the beta 64bit Coldfusion
release fine and it runs. The official release WTF happened?
 
 
 

 





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[cfaussie] Re: VPS recommendations?

[Mark Mandel]

I have heard good things about:
http://www.viviotech.net/hosting_vps.cfm
http://www.hostmysite.com/vps/

But have tried neither.

Mark

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:23 PM, michael sharman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Thanks Zac, I did see that one. Seemed one of the more reasonable ones
>  I came across.
>
>  I just wanted to know if anyone has personally used any that they'd
>  recommend.
>
>  Michael
>
>
>  On Apr 14, 2:58 pm, "Zac Spitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > a quick google and then off via ad words found this for $100 pretty
>  > much matching your requirements
>  >
>  > http://www.web24.com.au/vps/204/linux_vps.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:52 PM, michael sharman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >
>  > >  Hi guys,
>  >
>  > >  I'm in the market for a VPS provider. Can anyone recommend a mid-level
>  > >  package that they've had good experience with?
>  >
>  > >  Basic requirements
>  > >  ---
>  >
>  > >  OS: Can be either Windows (I'll be using Apache anyway) or Linux
>  > >  Location: Sydney is ideal but price *is* an issue so happy and willing
>  > >  to go overseas
>  > >  RAM: 1GB+
>  > >  Disk space: 40GB+
>  > >  Bandwidth: 100GB+
>  >
>  > >  Basically I'll be running ColdFusion (possibly multi instance), MySQL
>  > >  and a mail server, but the machine won't be sending a tonne of email.
>  >
>  > >  I've found a lot of plans which offer a whopping 256MB RAM for $100
>  > >  per month! Wow thanks, can I operate a browser with that too? Man I'm
>  > >  going into the hosting biz :)
>  >
>  > --
>  > Zac Spitzer -http://zacster.blogspot.com(My Blog)
>  > +61 405 847 168
>  >
>



-- 
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: www.compoundtheory.com

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[cfaussie] Re: VPS recommendations?

[KC Kuok]

Do add crystaltech.com to the list. they have dedicated and semi
dedicated solutions... and the Linux dedicated ones are pretty
reasonable... the base windows dedicated one looks like it comes close
to your requirements...

Good Luck,
Chong

On Apr 14, 2:52 pm, michael sharman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm in the market for a VPS provider. Can anyone recommend a mid-level
> package that they've had good experience with?
>
> Basic requirements
> ---
>
> OS: Can be either Windows (I'll be using Apache anyway) or Linux
> Location: Sydney is ideal but price *is* an issue so happy and willing
> to go overseas
> RAM: 1GB+
> Disk space: 40GB+
> Bandwidth: 100GB+
>
> Basically I'll be running ColdFusion (possibly multi instance), MySQL
> and a mail server, but the machine won't be sending a tonne of email.
>
> I've found a lot of plans which offer a whopping 256MB RAM for $100
> per month! Wow thanks, can I operate a browser with that too? Man I'm
> going into the hosting biz :)
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[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

[Andrew Scott]

Yes, but you expect the installer to do its job foremost!!!

If like me you had forgotten that IIS was also in 32bit, then why does the
installer not pick this up? Like I said first post, there is no error what
so ever until you try to run a cfm template. And to then run the CF
Connector generates all kinds of errors, and unless you know that you have
to run it as administrator can be a gotcha as well.

At the end of the day, I came across this by accident. Not even browsing the
beta forums was of any help on this. And to make it worse Beta versions
worked fine. Like I stated.

I think more checking in the installer needs to be done, so users don't get
caught out on this like I did.

 

Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613  9015 8628
Mobile: 0404 998 273

 

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Owen West
Sent: Monday, 14 April 2008 3:26 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

 

I have been reading the release notes and install guides (I know, but I
needed to get some sleep and that seemed like the best way)  :-)

 

It does mention that there are about 77 different combinations of 64-bit and
32-bit CF and IIS and Apache...you need to install the proper web server
connectors, and also make sure you use the proper connectors when connecting
to your web server, depending on whether you have 64 or 32 bit parts...it
all seems a bit confusing really...

 

Then again, maybe this is just Vista being Vista?

 

Owen West  MCP MCAD MCSD
Computer Programmer 
Applications Development Team

Information Technology & Telecommunications
Hunter New England Health
Ph: (02) 4921 4194
Fax: (02) 4921 4191
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



>>> "CyberAngel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/04/2008 5:23 pm >>>

Ok

 

If anyone is interested this seems to be a bug in the installer. I have
Apache running on this machine and the only way to have it run was to have
the pools run in 32bit mode. So the support of 32 bit was enabled.

 

The installer seems to not know this and adjust accordingly, maybe right
maybe not.

 

So when I switched the connectors to use 32 bit for coldfusion bingo, the
cfm sites worked again. The moment I switched these pools to not enabled 32
bit the sites no longer worked. Until I switched the 32 bit upport for
coldfusion connectors off.

 

Oh well 4 hours of frustration and installing, but why the hell it seems to
want to work this way in the release version was beyond me.

 

Problem solved, so if anyone else runs into this you'll have another KB for
you tools of how to for Vista 64bit and Coldfusion 8J

 

 

 

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 12:15 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

 

Well this maybe a "after the fact" tip, but in future i'd recommend you
install beta products on virtual machines. In the event an RTM/RTW occurs
you can swap out your code base on a fresh install.

 

Thus removing the headache your in now ;)

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

No it shouldn't but it does for some unknown reason...

 

 

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 12:02 PM 


To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista

 

my humble apologies ;) i missed the beta context. It shouldn't make a
difference but... whom knows.

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Scott...

 

Did you miss the point of me saying that I had the Beta installed and
working fine? And did you miss that I downloaded nte new 64bit release?

 

And I thought you we had been on a role and you go and do that to meJ

 

For everyone else's info, I can install the beta 64bit Coldfusion release
fine and it runs. The official release WTF happened?

 

 

 

 

 

http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[KC Kuok]

Except that when i try to get people to convert from PHP or .Net, i.e.
give CF a go, the usual response is that they usually have MORE than
enough work already in either of those, and lack time to go learn
another language. I have even brought non Native CF-ers to the CF8
launch with the Vic CFUG. And they charge anywhere between 60-120 per
hour and have full time jobs as well as projects on the side.

Its abit of a chicken and egg, lack of developers = lack of noticeable
presence = management not choosing to do projects in CF because of
lack of developers = no one training new CF developers, etc etc etc...
and round and round it goes...

Personally I am already seriously considering taking up PHP again, but
that is a long way off(at least 6 months before I have to seriously
consider change jobs), still struggling to find time as it is to learn
and practise Flex on my own time. And truth be told if I decided what
language to use for any Projects it will probably be CF backend and
Flex frontend, but as it stands it is more practical to be known for
doing PHP backend and Flex frontend, due to lack of jobs/presence for
CF and that is the plain truth. Just have a look at how many jobs are
listed for CF each month (and actually try to guess whether its the
same jobs you saw last week/month), there are not many if any new
jobs. And not many, if any new development studios will pick CF as one
of their primary development language.

Even 2 months back when i was exploring other job opportunities the
pickings were slim, and still are. Just did it to find out what people
were looking for, and what people thought CF was going, and what I can
reasonably ask for in terms of pay at my current job.

The above qoute should read "its my career, Adobe's Technology"...
anyway as a rule i think it will be beneficial for all web developers
to know other languages... even if only to read and translate open
source solutions into your own projects.

PS: I don't like both Adobe and MS equally, and I believe competition
is good. Keeps all involved honest and continuously innovating.

Just my 2 cents,
Chong

On Apr 14, 2:48 pm, "barry.b" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Can I just second Gary's call to get out there in
> the community - it's YOUR technology, YOUR career. "
>
> well, it took 100+ posts to come around to this being the best way to
> shut up the doom-sayers (inc recruters may have assumptions we all
> disagree with) 
>
> but we got there in the end.
>
> here endith the lesson.
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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Ricardo Russon]

And I thought I was the only one that looked up those sort of stats :)

Remember the domain counts I posted a while back?  That was 100%
> growth in .au domain names with cfm pages over the period 2004-2007
> indexed by Google.
>

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[cfaussie] Re: VPS recommendations?

[michael sharman]

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at those

On Apr 14, 3:46 pm, KC Kuok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do add crystaltech.com to the list. they have dedicated and semi
> dedicated solutions... and the Linux dedicated ones are pretty
> reasonable... the base windows dedicated one looks like it comes close
> to your requirements...
>
> Good Luck,
> Chong
>
> On Apr 14, 2:52 pm, michael sharman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
>
> > I'm in the market for a VPS provider. Can anyone recommend a mid-level
> > package that they've had good experience with?
>
> > Basic requirements
> > ---
>
> > OS: Can be either Windows (I'll be using Apache anyway) or Linux
> > Location: Sydney is ideal but price *is* an issue so happy and willing
> > to go overseas
> > RAM: 1GB+
> > Disk space: 40GB+
> > Bandwidth: 100GB+
>
> > Basically I'll be running ColdFusion (possibly multi instance), MySQL
> > and a mail server, but the machine won't be sending a tonne of email.
>
> > I've found a lot of plans which offer a whopping 256MB RAM for $100
> > per month! Wow thanks, can I operate a browser with that too? Man I'm
> > going into the hosting biz :)
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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gary Barber]

Has anyone tried getting front end devs to code in CF.  Tried pitching 
to the Designer communities.? :)

I know a few of you are ex front end devs,  so just remember back that 
maybe the designer market is the one to preach too!

-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



KC Kuok wrote:
> Except that when i try to get people to convert from PHP or .Net, i.e.
> give CF a go, the usual response is that they usually have MORE than
> enough work already in either of those, and lack time to go learn
> another language. I have even brought non Native CF-ers to the CF8
> launch with the Vic CFUG. And they charge anywhere between 60-120 per
> hour and have full time jobs as well as projects on the side.
>
> Its abit of a chicken and egg, lack of developers = lack of noticeable
> presence = management not choosing to do projects in CF because of
> lack of developers = no one training new CF developers, etc etc etc...
> and round and round it goes...
>   


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