[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Geoff, You really should not come into a discussion so late:-( Derby can't handle pagination, or sub select queries as I posted. That is a limitation to derby, and was on topic to the original post. Your QoQ is a solution, granted but not one I would be recommending to get around a limitation of a database. I am not going to debate my origianl statement anymore, the Java guys here will not touch it due its limitations and I will not recommended it for certain projects either. But that is not going to deter me or others using it in small, straight forward queries either. I made that point very clear in another post. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
And that is probably one of the best references on the net J Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:54 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder The JIRA task which Geoff linked to has a great link in the comments http://troels.arvin.dk/db/rdbms/#select-limit which discusses how each major db handles this kinda of thing differently and other use cases z On Dec 11, 2007 12:49 PM, Blair McKenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It is strange that such a basic feature isn't supported, but I wouldn't say it makes Derby a toy DB. For years MySQL didn't support subqueries. It was frustrating (and still is for those of us who still have to support those versions) but practically every technology needs the odd workaround. e.g. regex in coldfusion Blair On Dec 11, 2007 12:32 PM, Andrew Scott < <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blair, Here is the SQL to pagination code, this is a very simple example that can be found on most blogs including mine to be used with CFGrid. There is no way that Derby can run this code, and maxrows is not an answer to a problem like this. SELECT TOP #pagesize# ARTISTID, FIRSTNAME, LASTNAME, CITY, STATE FROM ARTISTS WHERE (ARTISTID NOT IN (SELECT TOP #page# ARTISTID FROM ARTISTS AS ARTISTS1 ORDER BY ARTISTID)) ORDER BY ARTISTID Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair McKenzie Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Um, is there a problem with using maxrows? I thought that it was included for just this kind of reason - variations in DB support. Blair On Dec 11, 2007 11:17 AM, Andrew Scott < <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Geoff, You can't be serious can you... In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ on the cached data. But then you knew that right? So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: <mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Bowers Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself feel important. You are a buffoon. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://zacster.blogspot.com (My Blog) +61 405 847 168 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
On Dec 11, 11:17 am, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can't be serious can you... > > In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is > constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ on > the cached data. > > But then you knew that right? > > So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. You said it couldn't be done in Derby.. I said you could use Query of Queries. You then suggest the solution is not acceptable for other databases. I would agree. But then we were talking about Derby which you keep pointing out has no innate ability to perform pagination. You constantly play this game of sophistry in every list you ply your trade. It is idiotic. Please desist. It is beyond boring. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ PS. You do not need to cache the query to perform pagination on it, though doing so for a short period of time would help in performance. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Do not get me wrong, I do not consider it a toy. Just makes it limiting in its practical usage. That is why I made my original statement, nothing against Charlie or Geoff, just that it went in a direction that wasn't really expected. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair McKenzie Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:49 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder It is strange that such a basic feature isn't supported, but I wouldn't say it makes Derby a toy DB. For years MySQL didn't support subqueries. It was frustrating (and still is for those of us who still have to support those versions) but practically every technology needs the odd workaround. e.g. regex in coldfusion Blair On Dec 11, 2007 12:32 PM, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blair, Here is the SQL to pagination code, this is a very simple example that can be found on most blogs including mine to be used with CFGrid. There is no way that Derby can run this code, and maxrows is not an answer to a problem like this. SELECT TOP #pagesize# ARTISTID, FIRSTNAME, LASTNAME, CITY, STATE FROM ARTISTS WHERE (ARTISTID NOT IN (SELECT TOP #page# ARTISTID FROM ARTISTS AS ARTISTS1 ORDER BY ARTISTID)) ORDER BY ARTISTID Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair McKenzie Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Um, is there a problem with using maxrows? I thought that it was included for just this kind of reason - variations in DB support. Blair On Dec 11, 2007 11:17 AM, Andrew Scott < <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Geoff, You can't be serious can you... In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ on the cached data. But then you knew that right? So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: <mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Bowers Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself feel important. You are a buffoon. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
The JIRA task which Geoff linked to has a great link in the comments http://troels.arvin.dk/db/rdbms/#select-limit which discusses how each major db handles this kinda of thing differently and other use cases z On Dec 11, 2007 12:49 PM, Blair McKenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is strange that such a basic feature isn't supported, but I wouldn't > say it makes Derby a toy DB. For years MySQL didn't support subqueries. It > was frustrating (and still is for those of us who still have to support > those versions) but practically every technology needs the odd workaround. > e.g. regex in coldfusion > > Blair > > > On Dec 11, 2007 12:32 PM, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Blair, > > > > > > > > Here is the SQL to pagination code, this is a very simple example that > > can be found on most blogs including mine to be used with CFGrid. > > > > > > > > There is no way that Derby can run this code, and maxrows is not an > > answer to a problem like this. > > > > > > > > SELECT TOP #pagesize# ARTISTID, FIRSTNAME, LASTNAME, CITY, STATE > > FROM ARTISTS > > WHERE (ARTISTID NOT IN > > (SELECT TOP #page# ARTISTID > > FROM ARTISTS AS ARTISTS1 ORDER BY ARTISTID)) > > ORDER BY ARTISTID > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Scott > > Senior Coldfusion Developer > > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > > www.aegeon.com.au > > Phone: +613 8676 4223 > > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On > > Behalf Of *Blair McKenzie > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 PM > > *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > > > *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and > > Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > > > > > > > Um, is there a problem with using maxrows? I thought that it was > > included for just this kind of reason - variations in DB support. > > > > Blair > > > > On Dec 11, 2007 11:17 AM, Andrew Scott < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Geoff, > > > > You can't be serious can you... > > > > In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is > > constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ > > on > > the cached data. > > > > But then you knew that right? > > > > So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Scott > > > > Senior Coldfusion Developer > > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > > www.aegeon.com.au > > Phone:+613 8676 4223 > > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf > > > > Of Geoff Bowers > > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM > > To: cfaussie > > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and > > Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > > > On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > > > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > > > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > > > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > > > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > > > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > > > be avoided at all costs. > > > > Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume > > you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself > > feel important. You are a buffoon. > > > > -- geoff > > http://www.daemon.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com (My Blog) +61 405 847 168 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
It is strange that such a basic feature isn't supported, but I wouldn't say it makes Derby a toy DB. For years MySQL didn't support subqueries. It was frustrating (and still is for those of us who still have to support those versions) but practically every technology needs the odd workaround. e.g. regex in coldfusion Blair On Dec 11, 2007 12:32 PM, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Blair, > > > > Here is the SQL to pagination code, this is a very simple example that can > be found on most blogs including mine to be used with CFGrid. > > > > There is no way that Derby can run this code, and maxrows is not an answer > to a problem like this. > > > > SELECT TOP #pagesize# ARTISTID, FIRSTNAME, LASTNAME, CITY, STATE > FROM ARTISTS > WHERE (ARTISTID NOT IN > (SELECT TOP #page# ARTISTID > FROM ARTISTS AS ARTISTS1 ORDER BY ARTISTID)) > ORDER BY ARTISTID > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Scott > Senior Coldfusion Developer > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > www.aegeon.com.au > Phone: +613 8676 4223 > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > > > > *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On > Behalf Of *Blair McKenzie > *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 PM > *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and > Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > > > Um, is there a problem with using maxrows? I thought that it was included > for just this kind of reason - variations in DB support. > > Blair > > On Dec 11, 2007 11:17 AM, Andrew Scott < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Geoff, > > You can't be serious can you... > > In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is > constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ > on > the cached data. > > But then you knew that right? > > So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. > > > > > > Andrew Scott > > Senior Coldfusion Developer > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > www.aegeon.com.au > Phone:+613 8676 4223 > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf > > Of Geoff Bowers > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM > To: cfaussie > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and > Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > > be avoided at all costs. > > Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume > you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself > feel important. You are a buffoon. > > -- geoff > http://www.daemon.com.au/ > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Blair, Here is the SQL to pagination code, this is a very simple example that can be found on most blogs including mine to be used with CFGrid. There is no way that Derby can run this code, and maxrows is not an answer to a problem like this. SELECT TOP #pagesize# ARTISTID, FIRSTNAME, LASTNAME, CITY, STATE FROM ARTISTS WHERE (ARTISTID NOT IN (SELECT TOP #page# ARTISTID FROM ARTISTS AS ARTISTS1 ORDER BY ARTISTID)) ORDER BY ARTISTID Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair McKenzie Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Um, is there a problem with using maxrows? I thought that it was included for just this kind of reason - variations in DB support. Blair On Dec 11, 2007 11:17 AM, Andrew Scott < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: Geoff, You can't be serious can you... In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ on the cached data. But then you knew that right? So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: cfaussie@googlegroups.com <mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Geoff Bowers Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself feel important. You are a buffoon. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Um, is there a problem with using maxrows? I thought that it was included for just this kind of reason - variations in DB support. Blair On Dec 11, 2007 11:17 AM, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Geoff, > > You can't be serious can you... > > In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is > constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ > on > the cached data. > > But then you knew that right? > > So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. > > > > > > Andrew Scott > Senior Coldfusion Developer > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > www.aegeon.com.au > Phone:+613 8676 4223 > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf > Of Geoff Bowers > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM > To: cfaussie > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and > Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > > On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > > be avoided at all costs. > > Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume > you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself > feel important. You are a buffoon. > > -- geoff > http://www.daemon.com.au/ > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Geoff, You can't be serious can you... In a real world example when pagination is needed, and the data is constantly changing it is not a good idea to cache the data and do a QoQ on the cached data. But then you knew that right? So if I am a buffoon, you must be my father. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Bowers Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 8:07 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself feel important. You are a buffoon. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
On Dec 6, 1:22 am, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. Do I really need to respond to this sort of stuff? I can only assume you go out of your way to misconstrue people's posts to make yourself feel important. You are a buffoon. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Well I guess that is how you interpreted young, in my eyes something can be around for 20 years and be a slow mover and if the competition has better features, then that still makes the product young. But hey that is neither here nor there. On 12/7/07, Charlie Arehart (lists account) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'll just say one last comment. You conclude with: > > "So arguing about how long it has been around is not relevant to me. > What is relevant is what I can't do with it." > > I wasn't proposing that Derby's merit stands on its heritage alone. I > brought it up only because you asserted it was "young". I also proposed that > if one was going to accuse it of being lacking, it would help that argument > (and the community) to name what those limitations are. > > But I hear you saying you just don't care for it and can't be bothered. No > worries. I won't press you for it. I just want to leave people to look into > it and decide for themselves, then. No hard feelings. > > /charlie --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
I'll just say one last comment. You conclude with: "So arguing about how long it has been around is not relevant to me. What is relevant is what I can't do with it." I wasn't proposing that Derby's merit stands on its heritage alone. I brought it up only because you asserted it was "young". I also proposed that if one was going to accuse it of being lacking, it would help that argument (and the community) to name what those limitations are. But I hear you saying you just don't care for it and can't be bothered. No worries. I won't press you for it. I just want to leave people to look into it and decide for themselves, then. No hard feelings. /charlie -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Scott Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:50 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Charlie, Barry asked a specific question, I gave him an answer we'll leave it at that. As for you not having to use the top scenario, trust me we use it on a daily basis with any form of pagination code. You can live without it as Geoff pointed out, but I do not see caching a query then using QoQ as a solution to data that is constantly changing. In the web2.0, and RIA world the TOP / OFFSET option(s) is mandatory for fast reliable code. So in my eyes, this makes it a non contender for today's market. I am not going to debate with you the pros / cons, I do think it is a fabulous product. But with a very serious limitation. I could go on about other code that I have tested against Derby, but right now it is pointless arguing about something that our company, and many others are going to be needing on a daily basis. That was my point, and I will not change my stance on my original statement. So arguing about how long it has been around is not relevant to me. What is relevant is what I can't do with it. Andrew Scott --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Charlie, Barry asked a specific question, I gave him an answer we'll leave it at that. As for you not having to use the top scenario, trust me we use it on a daily basis with any form of pagination code. You can live without it as Geoff pointed out, but I do not see caching a query then using QoQ as a solution to data that is constantly changing. In the web2.0, and RIA world the TOP / OFFSET option(s) is mandatory for fast reliable code. So in my eyes, this makes it a non contender for today's market. I am not going to debate with you the pros / cons, I do think it is a fabulous product. But with a very serious limitation. I could go on about other code that I have tested against Derby, but right now it is pointless arguing about something that our company, and many others are going to be needing on a daily basis. That was my point, and I will not change my stance on my original statement. So arguing about how long it has been around is not relevant to me. What is relevant is what I can't do with it. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charlie Arehart (lists account) Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:28 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder But Andrew, can you name anything other than that that it lacks? It's about the only limitation listed here: http://developers.sun.com/javadb/features/faqs.jsp (Derby is known also as Sun's JavaDB, as well as formerly--and still-as IBM Cloudscape.) Really, I just think you're stuck on this TOP thing. Would you be shocked to learn that many developers could go years without needing or using the TOP predicate in SQL? I have, and I'm sure I'm not unique. (There've been other DBMS's over the years that didn't support it at one time or another, so some just have gotten used to accepting a lowest common denominator and programming around such a challenge.) You just keep saying Derby's got "serious limitations", yet I don't see them. Since I keep pointing to things that show so much that it's capable of, I'm just asking if you can point at something that says what it doesn't do. I simply want people to be able to decide for themselves, not take either of our assertions as fact. That's all. As for using a cached query, goodness, why would you be averse to that out of hand? There can be times when it may not be wise (a huge result, or too many variations stored over and over), but I can totally argue in favor of using cached queries (whether in a shared scope or using CachedWithin) if done well. You seem to live in a world of absolutes, Andrew. :-) As a consultant, I can't help but be more flexible and say always, "it depends". Again, in that regard, I'm all about sharing info to let people decide for themselves. /charlie -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Scott Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:23 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Charlie, No I am not getting hot under the collar, I made a very healthy statement that means that people will seriously need to take into consideration when it comes to Derby. To not support the most basic of retrieving the top n records (whether it be top n or offset n) to me is young, regardless whether the application has been around for 10 years or not. Don't get me wrong, anything that is open source is seriously worth a look at. Just that in this case people need to be aware that there a serious limitations to Derby, that when compared to mySQL, postrgress, msSQL, informix etc. It is young at heart, because it has a long way to go to be compariable to those DB's. As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should be avoided at all costs. Again if I came across angry, it wasn't my intention. On 12/5/07, Charlie Arehart (lists account) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Andrew, you seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over all this. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Barry, I'll say again that I find is curious to argue that you "wouldn't dare run it into production, or use it for serious development". Do you have some objective reference to argue against it? I find nothing but many resources that suggest it's perfectly adequate for it. (Some misconstrue it as a "single user" DBMS, when that's not the case. It's just that in its embedded mode it permits connections only from within the single JVM in which it's installed, which is CF in our case, so it's absolutely a multi-user DBMS.) As for a DB having to have a RAD tool or RAD tools that work with it to be useful for "serious development", I'll say again that it can be used with any tool that supports JDBC. No, it isn't "a RAD tool itself", but really most DBs are not. Access is pretty unique in that regard. But sure, visual query builders, sure, there are many. We in CF have those based on RDS, whether in Eclipse using Adobe's CF 8 extensions (and its RDS Dataview), or in Dreamweaver's Application>Database tab, and CF Studio/HomeSite+'s DB tab. Then there are tools that work with JDBC DBs, such as those I list in the query tools section of my Derby resource. Again, guys, I'm not so much arguing "for" Derby, but just sharing my observations that seem to counter some that I keep hearing. I just want to help the community get accurate info. Not picking fights or meaning to put anyone down. /charlie -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:03 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder my origional post was for using Derby as a prototyping database - get some ideas down, see how it works, get a bit of code written to support it, etc. if it's rubbish, throw it out or store the ideas for later. A few limitations with the core db functionality is survivable. Derby potentially is a good package for teaching, sharing small proof of concept apps, rah rah. I wouldn't dare run it into production, or use it for serious development. to do that though, means that the db itself *has* to be (and let me stress this) a RAD tool itself - or have RAD tools that can work easily with it. Quick and simple generation of the basic db objects and visual indicators (such as relationship diagrams and visual "query builders") are essential. It's more than prototyping the code, it's prototyping the concepts and ideas of an app or section of an app. this is why I've been saying MSAccess is king of the mountain in this area - even easier than SQLServer. But it's no good on my Mac when I'm trying ideas on a long train ride... On Dec 6, 2007 12:22 AM, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Charlie, > > No I am not getting hot under the collar, I made a very healthy > statement that means that people will seriously need to take into > consideration when it comes to Derby. > > To not support the most basic of retrieving the top n records (whether > it be top n or offset n) to me is young, regardless whether the > application has been around for 10 years or not. > > Don't get me wrong, anything that is open source is seriously worth a > look at. Just that in this case people need to be aware that there a > serious limitations to Derby, that when compared to mySQL, postrgress, > msSQL, informix etc. It is young at heart, because it has a long way > to go to be compariable to those DB's. > > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. > > Again if I came across angry, it wasn't my intention. > > > > On 12/5/07, Charlie Arehart (lists account) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Andrew, you seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over all this. > > Look, I'm not an engineer (or even an apologist) for Derby. I just > > wanted to help CF folks take advantage of the newly available > > embedded DB. If it doesn't suit all needs, so be it. I never > > asserted it was the perfect DB nor the answer to all problems. :-) > > > > As for you saying it's been debated here many times, I just don't > > recall that. Sorry. I did search the Google group just now and find > > you making a brief mention of
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
But Andrew, can you name anything other than that that it lacks? It's about the only limitation listed here: http://developers.sun.com/javadb/features/faqs.jsp (Derby is known also as Sun's JavaDB, as well as formerly--and still-as IBM Cloudscape.) Really, I just think you're stuck on this TOP thing. Would you be shocked to learn that many developers could go years without needing or using the TOP predicate in SQL? I have, and I'm sure I'm not unique. (There've been other DBMS's over the years that didn't support it at one time or another, so some just have gotten used to accepting a lowest common denominator and programming around such a challenge.) You just keep saying Derby's got "serious limitations", yet I don't see them. Since I keep pointing to things that show so much that it's capable of, I'm just asking if you can point at something that says what it doesn't do. I simply want people to be able to decide for themselves, not take either of our assertions as fact. That's all. As for using a cached query, goodness, why would you be averse to that out of hand? There can be times when it may not be wise (a huge result, or too many variations stored over and over), but I can totally argue in favor of using cached queries (whether in a shared scope or using CachedWithin) if done well. You seem to live in a world of absolutes, Andrew. :-) As a consultant, I can't help but be more flexible and say always, "it depends". Again, in that regard, I'm all about sharing info to let people decide for themselves. /charlie -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Scott Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:23 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Charlie, No I am not getting hot under the collar, I made a very healthy statement that means that people will seriously need to take into consideration when it comes to Derby. To not support the most basic of retrieving the top n records (whether it be top n or offset n) to me is young, regardless whether the application has been around for 10 years or not. Don't get me wrong, anything that is open source is seriously worth a look at. Just that in this case people need to be aware that there a serious limitations to Derby, that when compared to mySQL, postrgress, msSQL, informix etc. It is young at heart, because it has a long way to go to be compariable to those DB's. As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should be avoided at all costs. Again if I came across angry, it wasn't my intention. On 12/5/07, Charlie Arehart (lists account) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Andrew, you seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over all this. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
my origional post was for using Derby as a prototyping database - get some ideas down, see how it works, get a bit of code written to support it, etc. if it's rubbish, throw it out or store the ideas for later. A few limitations with the core db functionality is survivable. Derby potentially is a good package for teaching, sharing small proof of concept apps, rah rah. I wouldn't dare run it into production, or use it for serious development. to do that though, means that the db itself *has* to be (and let me stress this) a RAD tool itself - or have RAD tools that can work easily with it. Quick and simple generation of the basic db objects and visual indicators (such as relationship diagrams and visual "query builders") are essential. It's more than prototyping the code, it's prototyping the concepts and ideas of an app or section of an app. this is why I've been saying MSAccess is king of the mountain in this area - even easier than SQLServer. But it's no good on my Mac when I'm trying ideas on a long train ride... On Dec 6, 2007 12:22 AM, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Charlie, > > No I am not getting hot under the collar, I made a very healthy > statement that means that people will seriously need to take into > consideration when it comes to Derby. > > To not support the most basic of retrieving the top n records (whether > it be top n or offset n) to me is young, regardless whether the > application has been around for 10 years or not. > > Don't get me wrong, anything that is open source is seriously worth a > look at. Just that in this case people need to be aware that there a > serious limitations to Derby, that when compared to mySQL, postrgress, > msSQL, informix etc. It is young at heart, because it has a long way > to go to be compariable to those DB's. > > As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a > QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long > run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best > solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out > there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band > aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should > be avoided at all costs. > > Again if I came across angry, it wasn't my intention. > > > > On 12/5/07, Charlie Arehart (lists account) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Andrew, you seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over all this. > > Look, I'm not an engineer (or even an apologist) for Derby. I just wanted to > > help CF folks take advantage of the newly available embedded DB. If it > > doesn't suit all needs, so be it. I never asserted it was the perfect DB nor > > the answer to all problems. :-) > > > > As for you saying it's been debated here many times, I just don't recall > > that. Sorry. I did search the Google group just now and find you making a > > brief mention of this same concern with top and offset back on Sep 24. Is > > that what you mean? > > > > Anyway, thanks, Geoff, for your kind reply. > > > > Andrew, I'll still argue that you're incorrect to call it "young at the > > moment" (as you did in that note of Sep 24, > > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/msg/898d1b3cf761979c). It's 10 years > > old, and while one may say, "well, yeah, but maybe that just means it's not > > been updated", that doesn't seem the case. Besides the fact that it's in its > > 10th release, there's also this page outlining SQL-99 and -2003 features > > supported: > > > > http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/SQLvsDerbyFeatures > > > > Just trying to help share info about it, folks. :-) That's all. I've > > continued to update the page I'd made: > > > > http://www.carehart.org/resourcelists/derby_for_CFers/ > > > > > > /charlie > > > > -Original Message- > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Andrew Scott > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:45 AM > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > > > > > Geoff, > > > > I agree, and this has been debated here many times about Derby and I made a > > statement and backed it up. > > > > > > Now it is up to Charlie to agree or disagree about the limitations that this > > DB has:-) > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/07, Geoff Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Charlie, No I am not getting hot under the collar, I made a very healthy statement that means that people will seriously need to take into consideration when it comes to Derby. To not support the most basic of retrieving the top n records (whether it be top n or offset n) to me is young, regardless whether the application has been around for 10 years or not. Don't get me wrong, anything that is open source is seriously worth a look at. Just that in this case people need to be aware that there a serious limitations to Derby, that when compared to mySQL, postrgress, msSQL, informix etc. It is young at heart, because it has a long way to go to be compariable to those DB's. As for Geoff, I bawk at anyone who says to cache the query and do a QoQ on that query. It might be a quick fix for now, but in the long run it is not a quick fix and should be refactored to be the best solution as quickly as possible. There is a good book that is out there on Software maintenance, and why one should not look at a band aid solution. Geoff's example, to me is a band aid solution and should be avoided at all costs. Again if I came across angry, it wasn't my intention. On 12/5/07, Charlie Arehart (lists account) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Andrew, you seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over all this. > Look, I'm not an engineer (or even an apologist) for Derby. I just wanted to > help CF folks take advantage of the newly available embedded DB. If it > doesn't suit all needs, so be it. I never asserted it was the perfect DB nor > the answer to all problems. :-) > > As for you saying it's been debated here many times, I just don't recall > that. Sorry. I did search the Google group just now and find you making a > brief mention of this same concern with top and offset back on Sep 24. Is > that what you mean? > > Anyway, thanks, Geoff, for your kind reply. > > Andrew, I'll still argue that you're incorrect to call it "young at the > moment" (as you did in that note of Sep 24, > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/msg/898d1b3cf761979c). It's 10 years > old, and while one may say, "well, yeah, but maybe that just means it's not > been updated", that doesn't seem the case. Besides the fact that it's in its > 10th release, there's also this page outlining SQL-99 and -2003 features > supported: > > http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/SQLvsDerbyFeatures > > Just trying to help share info about it, folks. :-) That's all. I've > continued to update the page I'd made: > > http://www.carehart.org/resourcelists/derby_for_CFers/ > > > /charlie > > -Original Message----- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Andrew Scott > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:45 AM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder > > > Geoff, > > I agree, and this has been debated here many times about Derby and I made a > statement and backed it up. > > > Now it is up to Charlie to agree or disagree about the limitations that this > DB has:-) > > > > > On 12/4/07, Geoff Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Dec 4, 12:50 pm, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > With the version of Derby that comes with Coldfusion 8, try to do a > > > pagination query. > > > > You can track this specific feature here: > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-581 > > > > > I wrote a tutorial to do pagination with the CFGrid, and both Dale > > > and Myself couldn't get it to work with Derby. And if you read all > > > the notes on the Apache website, you'll see that even they say it is not > supported. > > > > You could always put the whole query in memory and do query of > > queries. That would see you through to several thousand rows of data > > before you would notice any impact. > > > > > Would you like to debate this even further Charlie? > > > > Not sure what point you are trying to make. Charlie seems to have > > been nothing but helpful. Derby is what it is -- an ideal replacement > > for Access. It's cross platform, pre-installed, a breeze to set up > > and very sophisticated despite some missing areas of functionality. > > > > -- geoff > > http://www.daemon.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Senior Coldfusion Developer > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > www.aegeon.com.au > Phone: +613 8676 4223 > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > > > > > -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Andrew, you seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over all this. Look, I'm not an engineer (or even an apologist) for Derby. I just wanted to help CF folks take advantage of the newly available embedded DB. If it doesn't suit all needs, so be it. I never asserted it was the perfect DB nor the answer to all problems. :-) As for you saying it's been debated here many times, I just don't recall that. Sorry. I did search the Google group just now and find you making a brief mention of this same concern with top and offset back on Sep 24. Is that what you mean? Anyway, thanks, Geoff, for your kind reply. Andrew, I'll still argue that you're incorrect to call it "young at the moment" (as you did in that note of Sep 24, http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/msg/898d1b3cf761979c). It's 10 years old, and while one may say, "well, yeah, but maybe that just means it's not been updated", that doesn't seem the case. Besides the fact that it's in its 10th release, there's also this page outlining SQL-99 and -2003 features supported: http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/SQLvsDerbyFeatures Just trying to help share info about it, folks. :-) That's all. I've continued to update the page I'd made: http://www.carehart.org/resourcelists/derby_for_CFers/ /charlie -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Scott Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:45 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Geoff, I agree, and this has been debated here many times about Derby and I made a statement and backed it up. Now it is up to Charlie to agree or disagree about the limitations that this DB has:-) On 12/4/07, Geoff Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Dec 4, 12:50 pm, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With the version of Derby that comes with Coldfusion 8, try to do a > > pagination query. > > You can track this specific feature here: > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-581 > > > I wrote a tutorial to do pagination with the CFGrid, and both Dale > > and Myself couldn't get it to work with Derby. And if you read all > > the notes on the Apache website, you'll see that even they say it is not supported. > > You could always put the whole query in memory and do query of > queries. That would see you through to several thousand rows of data > before you would notice any impact. > > > Would you like to debate this even further Charlie? > > Not sure what point you are trying to make. Charlie seems to have > been nothing but helpful. Derby is what it is -- an ideal replacement > for Access. It's cross platform, pre-installed, a breeze to set up > and very sophisticated despite some missing areas of functionality. > > -- geoff > http://www.daemon.com.au/ > > > > -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Geoff, I agree, and this has been debated here many times about Derby and I made a statement and backed it up. Now it is up to Charlie to agree or disagree about the limitations that this DB has:-) On 12/4/07, Geoff Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Dec 4, 12:50 pm, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With the version of Derby that comes with Coldfusion 8, try to do a > > pagination query. > > You can track this specific feature here: > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-581 > > > I wrote a tutorial to do pagination with the CFGrid, and both Dale and > > Myself couldn't get it to work with Derby. And if you read all the notes on > > the Apache website, you'll see that even they say it is not supported. > > You could always put the whole query in memory and do query of > queries. That would see you through to several thousand rows of data > before you would notice any impact. > > > Would you like to debate this even further Charlie? > > Not sure what point you are trying to make. Charlie seems to have > been nothing but helpful. Derby is what it is -- an ideal replacement > for Access. It's cross platform, pre-installed, a breeze to set up > and very sophisticated despite some missing areas of functionality. > > -- geoff > http://www.daemon.com.au/ > > > > -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
On Dec 4, 12:50 pm, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > With the version of Derby that comes with Coldfusion 8, try to do a > pagination query. You can track this specific feature here: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-581 > I wrote a tutorial to do pagination with the CFGrid, and both Dale and > Myself couldn't get it to work with Derby. And if you read all the notes on > the Apache website, you'll see that even they say it is not supported. You could always put the whole query in memory and do query of queries. That would see you through to several thousand rows of data before you would notice any impact. > Would you like to debate this even further Charlie? Not sure what point you are trying to make. Charlie seems to have been nothing but helpful. Derby is what it is -- an ideal replacement for Access. It's cross platform, pre-installed, a breeze to set up and very sophisticated despite some missing areas of functionality. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Charlie,
With the version of Derby that comes with Coldfusion 8, try to do a
pagination query.
For example.
Select top 100 fieldname
From table
Or even the mySql offset way of doing it.
I wrote a tutorial to do pagination with the CFGrid, and both Dale and
Myself couldn't get it to work with Derby. And if you read all the notes on
the Apache website, you'll see that even they say it is not supported.
Would you like to debate this even further Charlie?
Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charlie Arehart (lists account)
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2007 3:50 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
So please elaborate. What you're saying is inconsistent with what I've seen
and/or read so far. Do you have anything (or know anywhere) that documents
what you're suggesting? Just really surprises me. You're saying that
"select, insert etc queries are very basic implementations"? That's totally
inconsistent with what I've read.
The reference at
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/cscv/v10r1/topic/com.ibm.cloudscape
.doc/crefsqlj39374.html seems very complete, and the support for SQL-92
features doesn't show much not supported:
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/cscv/v10r1/topic/com.ibm.cloudscape
.doc/rrefsql9241891.html.
Again, not trying to be too much of an apologist. Just want to head off any
casting of aspersions without solid evidence.
/charlie
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Andrew Scott
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:21 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
No I mean Derby as the database itself.
Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charlie Arehart (lists account)
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2007 12:04 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Hey Andrew, are you speaking of Derby itself or the DTP support for it?
I'll assume you mean the latter. I just wouldn't want readers just want to
infer from your comments ("very basic implementation") that Derby is some
new kid on the blog. Folks may be interested to know that it's in fact a 10
year old DBMS (known formerly as Cloudscape, which was first independent,
then was bought by Informix, then by IBM before they turned it over to
Apache). IBM says that it accepts the same SQL and API calls as DB2, and
DB2's been around longer than most enterprise SQL databases.
But if you meant the DTP tools, that's cool. Haven't used them yet myself,
and honestly I've only just started using Derby.
I'm sure some will ask questions like, "so what is Derby is good for?", and
"why would I use it over MySQL?"
I answer those in the getting started page I pointed to earlier.
/charlie
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[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
> Must have been some good reasons why Adobe dropped MS Access for their > example apps in CF8. you can throw the whole CF8 server + database around as one neat, preconfigured package. Besides, there's a better chance I'll get Derby working better on my (PPC) Mac than Access thanx Pat, Charlie, Andrew, etc (everyone bags Access - even Barnes - but it's still a cute, RAD little prototyping database) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
You may need to get the jdbc drivers from the Apache Derby site instead of those bundled in to the CF8 install. (chances are they would be later release and perform better). Derby is a pretty robust RDMS system (out performs MySQL in some instances) but certainly doesn't have as much tooling support as other opensource DB's. (I'd love to be corrected on this point) No right click and add index for you! :) Charlie points to SQuirrel in his links as a good interface into the guts of Derby and I must agree. (I've used SQuirrel to move a MSSQL DB more succesfully than the MS tools). Must have been some good reasons why Adobe dropped MS Access for their example apps in CF8. On Nov 28, 1:25 pm, "Barry Beattie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all > > I'm trying to use the embeded Derby database as a scratch db, try out > some ideas, do simple stuff, etc. > > I'm also trying to get a visual editor/schema explorer going for it - > using the "Data Tools Platform" plug-ins for Eclipse. > > The Data Tools Platform have a configuration for Derby, but when I > point it to the Derby JDBC library, it doesn't "take" (the Derby > Client JDBC jar is in /ColdFusion8/lib ) > > Has anyone used the Derby database, and more importantly been able to > do more than throw "create table" scripts at it via CF and a DSN? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
So please elaborate. What you're saying is inconsistent with what I've seen
and/or read so far. Do you have anything (or know anywhere) that documents
what you're suggesting? Just really surprises me. You're saying that
"select, insert etc queries are very basic implementations"? That's totally
inconsistent with what I've read.
The reference at
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/cscv/v10r1/topic/com.ibm.cloudscape
.doc/crefsqlj39374.html seems very complete, and the support for SQL-92
features doesn't show much not supported:
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/cscv/v10r1/topic/com.ibm.cloudscape
.doc/rrefsql9241891.html.
Again, not trying to be too much of an apologist. Just want to head off any
casting of aspersions without solid evidence.
/charlie
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Andrew Scott
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:21 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
No I mean Derby as the database itself.
Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charlie Arehart (lists account)
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2007 12:04 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Hey Andrew, are you speaking of Derby itself or the DTP support for it?
I'll assume you mean the latter. I just wouldn't want readers just want to
infer from your comments ("very basic implementation") that Derby is some
new kid on the blog. Folks may be interested to know that it's in fact a 10
year old DBMS (known formerly as Cloudscape, which was first independent,
then was bought by Informix, then by IBM before they turned it over to
Apache). IBM says that it accepts the same SQL and API calls as DB2, and
DB2's been around longer than most enterprise SQL databases.
But if you meant the DTP tools, that's cool. Haven't used them yet myself,
and honestly I've only just started using Derby.
I'm sure some will ask questions like, "so what is Derby is good for?", and
"why would I use it over MySQL?"
I answer those in the getting started page I pointed to earlier.
/charlie
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
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-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
No I mean Derby as the database itself.
Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charlie Arehart (lists account)
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2007 12:04 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Hey Andrew, are you speaking of Derby itself or the DTP support for it?
I'll assume you mean the latter. I just wouldn't want readers just want to
infer from your comments ("very basic implementation") that Derby is some
new kid on the blog. Folks may be interested to know that it's in fact a 10
year old DBMS (known formerly as Cloudscape, which was first independent,
then was bought by Informix, then by IBM before they turned it over to
Apache). IBM says that it accepts the same SQL and API calls as DB2, and
DB2's been around longer than most enterprise SQL databases.
But if you meant the DTP tools, that's cool. Haven't used them yet myself,
and honestly I've only just started using Derby.
I'm sure some will ask questions like, "so what is Derby is good for?", and
"why would I use it over MySQL?"
I answer those in the getting started page I pointed to earlier.
/charlie
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Andrew Scott
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:55 AM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Yes,
This is certainly a work in progress with Derby, do not expect much to work
that you would normally expect to work. The basics like top 100, offset or
whatever they will end up using for returning top x records is NOT supported
at the moment.
There is a good little utility called Execute Query @ ExecuteQuery.org, if
you have the JDBC driver you will have no problems setting this utility up
with any Database.
So to sum it up, the select, insert etc queries are very basic
implementations at this stage.
On 11/28/07, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I'm trying to use the embeded Derby database as a scratch db, try out
> some ideas, do simple stuff, etc.
>
> I'm also trying to get a visual editor/schema explorer going for it -
> using the "Data Tools Platform" plug-ins for Eclipse.
>
> The Data Tools Platform have a configuration for Derby, but when I
> point it to the Derby JDBC library, it doesn't "take" (the Derby
> Client JDBC jar is in /ColdFusion8/lib )
>
> Has anyone used the Derby database, and more importantly been able to
> do more than throw "create table" scripts at it via CF and a DSN?
>
> >
>
--
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Hey Andrew, are you speaking of Derby itself or the DTP support for it?
I'll assume you mean the latter. I just wouldn't want readers just want to
infer from your comments ("very basic implementation") that Derby is some
new kid on the blog. Folks may be interested to know that it's in fact a 10
year old DBMS (known formerly as Cloudscape, which was first independent,
then was bought by Informix, then by IBM before they turned it over to
Apache). IBM says that it accepts the same SQL and API calls as DB2, and
DB2's been around longer than most enterprise SQL databases.
But if you meant the DTP tools, that's cool. Haven't used them yet myself,
and honestly I've only just started using Derby.
I'm sure some will ask questions like, "so what is Derby is good for?", and
"why would I use it over MySQL?"
I answer those in the getting started page I pointed to earlier.
/charlie
-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Andrew Scott
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:55 AM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Yes,
This is certainly a work in progress with Derby, do not expect much to work
that you would normally expect to work. The basics like top 100, offset or
whatever they will end up using for returning top x records is NOT supported
at the moment.
There is a good little utility called Execute Query @ ExecuteQuery.org, if
you have the JDBC driver you will have no problems setting this utility up
with any Database.
So to sum it up, the select, insert etc queries are very basic
implementations at this stage.
On 11/28/07, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I'm trying to use the embeded Derby database as a scratch db, try out
> some ideas, do simple stuff, etc.
>
> I'm also trying to get a visual editor/schema explorer going for it -
> using the "Data Tools Platform" plug-ins for Eclipse.
>
> The Data Tools Platform have a configuration for Derby, but when I
> point it to the Derby JDBC library, it doesn't "take" (the Derby
> Client JDBC jar is in /ColdFusion8/lib )
>
> Has anyone used the Derby database, and more importantly been able to
> do more than throw "create table" scripts at it via CF and a DSN?
>
> >
>
--
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Hey Barry (and anyone else interested in the new Apache Derby embedded in CF8), I've created a resource to help you get started: http://www.carehart.org/resourcelists/derby_for_CFers/ It includes answers to many common questions, including how to use IDEs with it and how to find other query tools for it. There's even a specific reference to a couple of resources on using it with the DTP. I'll also point out that those interested in Derby, especially in discussing it with others, will want to know that a couple of weeks ago I started a Derby "community" on the coldfusioncommunity.org site: http://www.coldfusioncommunity.org/group/derby Anyone may join in. I'll note that I rolled all my answers to questions there, prior to December, into the getting started page above. Finally, this Derby getting started page is one of many that I offer in a new Resource Lists page I've started at: http://www.carehart.org/resourcelists/ /charlie -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:25 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder Hi all I'm trying to use the embeded Derby database as a scratch db, try out some ideas, do simple stuff, etc. I'm also trying to get a visual editor/schema explorer going for it - using the "Data Tools Platform" plug-ins for Eclipse. The Data Tools Platform have a configuration for Derby, but when I point it to the Derby JDBC library, it doesn't "take" (the Derby Client JDBC jar is in /ColdFusion8/lib ) Has anyone used the Derby database, and more importantly been able to do more than throw "create table" scripts at it via CF and a DSN? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Derby Embeded Database (CF8) and Eclipse/FlexBuilder
Yes, This is certainly a work in progress with Derby, do not expect much to work that you would normally expect to work. The basics like top 100, offset or whatever they will end up using for returning top x records is NOT supported at the moment. There is a good little utility called Execute Query @ ExecuteQuery.org, if you have the JDBC driver you will have no problems setting this utility up with any Database. So to sum it up, the select, insert etc queries are very basic implementations at this stage. On 11/28/07, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi all > > I'm trying to use the embeded Derby database as a scratch db, try out > some ideas, do simple stuff, etc. > > I'm also trying to get a visual editor/schema explorer going for it - > using the "Data Tools Platform" plug-ins for Eclipse. > > The Data Tools Platform have a configuration for Derby, but when I > point it to the Derby JDBC library, it doesn't "take" (the Derby > Client JDBC jar is in /ColdFusion8/lib ) > > Has anyone used the Derby database, and more importantly been able to > do more than throw "create table" scripts at it via CF and a DSN? > > > > -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
