Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Dan, take a look at this site for some help. You may have to get the gage they sell to properly set up the booster pin to M/C piston depth. Or, if you have a depth gage, you can set it up that way. CPP has a whole page of brake help. The gage below is from their site. http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/BrakeTroubleshoot.htm#pedal Check Booster Pushrod Adjustment The pushrod that actuates the master cylinder must be properly adjusted. Ideally there should be only slight clearance between the booster pushrod and the master cylinder pushrod. Interference will preload the master cylinder. When the system is preloaded, it builds pressure each time the pedal is pressed. Since the master cylinder is not allowed to fully release the pressure from the previous stroke, the system will eventually lock the wheels. Too much clearance will cause excessive freeplay in the pedal. In almost every case, if you bought your booster and master cylinder from us, we pre-adjust the booster pushrod and master cylinder for you so this is not a problem. To make 100% certain of a properly adjusted booster pushrod for your master, we offer a master cylinder depth gauge (PN: CP2003) to determine correct pushrod length. The following illustration demonstrates the proper usage of this tool. First measure the length that the booster pushrod extends past the face of the booster with the head of the pin. on the tool. Then measure the depth of the master cylinder piston with the other end of the pin on the tool. If the pin hits or there is too much space on step two, then adjustment is necessary. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chevelle List chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Mike, Pulled it all apart tonight and I suspect the booster and the master cylinder were not a match. I have a deep hole M/C which according to Master Power is for manual applications. The rod is sticking out the same amount from the booster but the actuation rod will not come out of the booster. Possibly pushed too far? I am going to put the original shaft in, drop the booster and see what happens. Will let you know how it turns out. Thanks for the help. Thanks, Dan Solomon -Original Message- From: Mike Holleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:55:05 To:The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Dan, The rods are approx. 1 different in length. If you have a short rod, less than an inch in length your hole depth in the M/C should be the same. The only problem comes if your M/C has the deep hole, more than an inch and the booster the short. Always bench bleed the M/C. You need to be sure you fully stroke the M/C until you get no more air. The M/C when mounted does not get fully stroked and herein lies the problem trying to bleed it mounted. Get the little kit at Auto Zone for M/C bleeding. Has threaded nipples and clear tubes. That way you can see the air is gone. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing List mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Mike, How will I know if the rod and the M/C match? I think I will try bench bleeding the M/C tonight. The entire system was installed dry so it sounds like this has to be done no matter what. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Mike Holleman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing List mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking A couple of questions. There are two types of masters. One for the long push rod and one for the short. If your booster has the short rod and your M/C is a long style you are not stroking the M/C. Also, did you bench bleed the M/C? This is necessary to get good pedal. One more, there should be two different mounting locations(holes) in the brake pedal arm for the clevis to attach to. The upper is for manual brakes and the lower for power. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing List mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking I didn't realize that there was a different master cylinder for power brakes. I bought the one I have on the car before I thought about adding the power assist. Sounds like its worth a try. Think I have a original 70 master cylinder in the shed. Maybe I will try my hand at a rebuild. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Waller mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List' mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re
[Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Keep bleeding, bleeding, bleding then bleed some more until you have more pedal. That has been my experience at least. Daniel Solomon wrote: Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Did you use the correct rod from the pedal to the m/c? ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
This may sound really dumb, but this happened to me this year. I went from a manual 4 drum system to a power disk braking system. I got everything all hooked up, but I wasn't impressed with the stopping power. I started to hear a leak from my booster after a few months, so I ordered a new one. Well I removed the master cylinder and realized my friend who hooked up the booster and master didn't put in the connecting rod between then. So I had a huge air leak through that area and I had no physical connection between the booster and the master. I doubt anyone else in the world could be that dumb, but I like to share my dumb stories. PS~I drove my car like that for 5 months before I fixed the problem. Now the car actually stops. Good luck. I'd guess it is a bleeding issue. I also had a problem while bleeding that one fitting wasn't real tight on the rear T and it kept letting air slowing back into the system while bleeding. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/2007 11:09 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Please respond to The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net To The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net cc Subject Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 10/31/2007Retention Category: G90 - General Matters/Administration Keep bleeding, bleeding, bleding then bleed some more until you have more pedal. That has been my experience at least. Daniel Solomon wrote: Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
I didn't realize that there was a different master cylinder for power brakes. I bought the one I have on the car before I thought about adding the power assist. Sounds like its worth a try. Think I have a original 70 master cylinder in the shed. Maybe I will try my hand at a rebuild. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Wallermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List'mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
I will check for the rod when I pull it off. I could be that dumb. It depends on how many cold ones I had before I put it together. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Randy S Johnsonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing Listmailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking This may sound really dumb, but this happened to me this year. I went from a manual 4 drum system to a power disk braking system. I got everything all hooked up, but I wasn't impressed with the stopping power. I started to hear a leak from my booster after a few months, so I ordered a new one. Well I removed the master cylinder and realized my friend who hooked up the booster and master didn't put in the connecting rod between then. So I had a huge air leak through that area and I had no physical connection between the booster and the master. I doubt anyone else in the world could be that dumb, but I like to share my dumb stories. PS~I drove my car like that for 5 months before I fixed the problem. Now the car actually stops. Good luck. I'd guess it is a bleeding issue. I also had a problem while bleeding that one fitting wasn't real tight on the rear T and it kept letting air slowing back into the system while bleeding. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/2007 11:09 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Please respond to The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net To The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net cc Subject Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Caterpillar: Confidential GreenRetain Until: 10/31/2007 Retention Category: G90 - General Matters/Administration Keep bleeding, bleeding, bleding then bleed some more until you have more pedal. That has been my experience at least. Daniel Solomon wrote: Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
What is the difference? I used the one that was with the car. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: chevelle-list@chevelles.netmailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Did you use the correct rod from the pedal to the m/c? -- See what's new at AOL.comhttp://www.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP0030001170 and Make AOL Your Homepagehttp://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP0030001169.
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
I don't see a listing for a power drum master cylinder. Could you get power with drums in 1970? Would I be better off with the power disc brake M/C? Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Wallermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List'mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
A couple of questions. There are two types of masters. One for the long push rod and one for the short. If your booster has the short rod and your M/C is a long style you are not stroking the M/C. Also, did you bench bleed the M/C? This is necessary to get good pedal. One more, there should be two different mounting locations(holes) in the brake pedal arm for the clevis to attach to. The upper is for manual brakes and the lower for power. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon To: The Chevelle Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking I didn't realize that there was a different master cylinder for power brakes. I bought the one I have on the car before I thought about adding the power assist. Sounds like its worth a try. Think I have a original 70 master cylinder in the shed. Maybe I will try my hand at a rebuild. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Waller To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List' Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.36/1041 - Release Date: 10/1/2007 10:20 AM
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
From: Daniel Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 11:55 amSubject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor BrakingTo: The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net Picked up my 70Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel.I was not aware of different length pushrods, that sounds like something to check.The little links between wheel cylinder and shoe is in place on all brake shoes?Maybe recheck the adjustment on the brake shoes?Four shoes with too much clearance will eat up your pedal travel in a hurry.Been there, done that!Pete
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Did you bleed the master cylinder when it was mounted?If so, you may still have air trapped at the high end.In my limited experience I've had better luck bench bleeding the master cylinder on the bench before installation. A bench bleeding kit is only a few bucks. On 10/1/07, chevelle292wagon dejazzd.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Daniel Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 11:55 am Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking To: The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. I was not aware of different length pushrods, that sounds like something to check. The little links between wheel cylinder and shoe is in place on all brake shoes? Maybe recheck the adjustment on the brake shoes? Four shoes with too much clearance will eat up your pedal travel in a hurry. Been there, done that! Pete -- Rick Schaefer 72 TPI El Camino
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Mike, How will I know if the rod and the M/C match? I think I will try bench bleeding the M/C tonight. The entire system was installed dry so it sounds like this has to be done no matter what. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Mike Hollemanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing Listmailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking A couple of questions. There are two types of masters. One for the long push rod and one for the short. If your booster has the short rod and your M/C is a long style you are not stroking the M/C. Also, did you bench bleed the M/C? This is necessary to get good pedal. One more, there should be two different mounting locations(holes) in the brake pedal arm for the clevis to attach to. The upper is for manual brakes and the lower for power. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing Listmailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking I didn't realize that there was a different master cylinder for power brakes. I bought the one I have on the car before I thought about adding the power assist. Sounds like its worth a try. Think I have a original 70 master cylinder in the shed. Maybe I will try my hand at a rebuild. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Wallermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List'mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.36/1041 - Release Date: 10/1/2007 10:20 AM
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Daniel, the push rod length and often the depth of the pushrod hold in master cylinder is different between power and non-power. I found this out the hard way. In fact the pushrod depth is often different with new master cylinders anyway. Check pushrod in back of master cylinder and it probably is not moving far enough. Hope this helps. Been there done that and after much worry and work found right pushrod. - Original Message - From: chevelle292wagon dejazzd.com To: The Chevelle Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking From: Daniel Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 11:55 am Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking To: The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. I was not aware of different length pushrods, that sounds like something to check. The little links between wheel cylinder and shoe is in place on all brake shoes? Maybe recheck the adjustment on the brake shoes? Four shoes with too much clearance will eat up your pedal travel in a hurry. Been there, done that! Pete
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Dan, The rods are approx. 1 different in length. If you have a short rod, less than an inch in length your hole depth in the M/C should be the same. The only problem comes if your M/C has the deep hole, more than an inch and the booster the short. Always bench bleed the M/C. You need to be sure you fully stroke the M/C until you get no more air. The M/C when mounted does not get fully stroked and herein lies the problem trying to bleed it mounted. Get the little kit at Auto Zone for M/C bleeding. Has threaded nipples and clear tubes. That way you can see the air is gone. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon To: The Chevelle Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Mike, How will I know if the rod and the M/C match? I think I will try bench bleeding the M/C tonight. The entire system was installed dry so it sounds like this has to be done no matter what. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Mike Holleman To: The Chevelle Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking A couple of questions. There are two types of masters. One for the long push rod and one for the short. If your booster has the short rod and your M/C is a long style you are not stroking the M/C. Also, did you bench bleed the M/C? This is necessary to get good pedal. One more, there should be two different mounting locations(holes) in the brake pedal arm for the clevis to attach to. The upper is for manual brakes and the lower for power. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon To: The Chevelle Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking I didn't realize that there was a different master cylinder for power brakes. I bought the one I have on the car before I thought about adding the power assist. Sounds like its worth a try. Think I have a original 70 master cylinder in the shed. Maybe I will try my hand at a rebuild. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Waller To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List' Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve All New Lines Silicone Brake Fluid I adjusted all of the brakes but it did not help. Bled them again but did not find any air in the lines. Wondering if I should ditch the booster and put the master cylinder back on the firewall as it was before. It is the only thing that I changed in the setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Now that I have it done I want to drive! Thanks, Dan -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.36/1041 - Release Date: 10/1/2007 10
Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking
Mike, Pulled it all apart tonight and I suspect the booster and the master cylinder were not a match. I have a deep hole M/C which according to Master Power is for manual applications. The rod is sticking out the same amount from the booster but the actuation rod will not come out of the booster. Possibly pushed too far? I am going to put the original shaft in, drop the booster and see what happens. Will let you know how it turns out. Thanks for the help. Thanks, Dan Solomon -Original Message- From: Mike Holleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:55:05 To:The Chevelle Mailing List chevelle-list@chevelles.net Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Dan, The rods are approx. 1 different in length. If you have a short rod, less than an inch in length your hole depth in the M/C should be the same. The only problem comes if your M/C has the deep hole, more than an inch and the booster the short. Always bench bleed the M/C. You need to be sure you fully stroke the M/C until you get no more air. The M/C when mounted does not get fully stroked and herein lies the problem trying to bleed it mounted. Get the little kit at Auto Zone for M/C bleeding. Has threaded nipples and clear tubes. That way you can see the air is gone. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing List mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Mike, How will I know if the rod and the M/C match? I think I will try bench bleeding the M/C tonight. The entire system was installed dry so it sounds like this has to be done no matter what. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Mike Holleman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing List mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking A couple of questions. There are two types of masters. One for the long push rod and one for the short. If your booster has the short rod and your M/C is a long style you are not stroking the M/C. Also, did you bench bleed the M/C? This is necessary to get good pedal. One more, there should be two different mounting locations(holes) in the brake pedal arm for the clevis to attach to. The upper is for manual brakes and the lower for power. Mike - Original Message - From: Daniel Solomon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Chevelle Mailing List mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking I didn't realize that there was a different master cylinder for power brakes. I bought the one I have on the car before I thought about adding the power assist. Sounds like its worth a try. Think I have a original 70 master cylinder in the shed. Maybe I will try my hand at a rebuild. Thanks, Dan - Original Message - From: Brad Waller mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List' mailto:chevelle-list@chevelles.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking My first thought was that the Master Cylinder was bad. Even though it is new, it could be. Or maybe you need to adjust the plunger/pedal? It has been way too long for me, but I had the opposite problem of the brakes applying themselves after a while until the wheels locked. That was from the adjustement bein off the other direction. Too tight and the brakes are always on! Maybe too loose and you get lots of travel and no pressure. Is the master the right one for the other parts? You say you might put the booster back on the firewall, so does this mean the master is a non-power master? I'm not sure what would happen if you had a power master with no booster, but I think it would be a problem to add a booster to a manual master cylinder. If things are mismatched here, maybe that is why you get no power from your braking? Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '66 Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFG R1 '67 Chevelle | ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | F-Body Brakes | 275/40/17 Kumho MX From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Solomon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:52 AM To: The Chevelle Mailing List Subject: [Chevelle-list] No Pedal - Poor Braking Picked up my 70 Chevelle from the body shop on Thursday and took it for its maiden voyage this weekend. Car looks and runs great but won't stop. I have absolutely NO pedal. Its not spongy but way to much pedal travel. Hopefully someone out there can guide me to a solution. Here is what i am running... 4 Wheel Drum Brakes - All pads and hardware are brand new 4 New Brake Cylinders New Drum Brake Master Cylinder Used GM Power Booster Original Proportioning Valve
