Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 10:18 +0930, Pierre Dumuid wrote: > Thanks Andraz, > > BTW: > > Johannes mentioned this idea on IRC and I second it, > > To save on commits to the SVN these ideas can be placed in a git repo set up > on > pipapo for git users. This can provide a place for others to try your idea > before commit. The branching system also I find really cool to in being able > to > keep commits which didn't in the end make it, and everyone can still see / > find > it easiliy. I really don't have time to play around with lengthened development process. I don't think we have issues with quality of patches and i don't think it is catastrophic if one 'bad' patch hits svn once a year. we also didn't have build breakage for a long time now. Another offtopic thing: i've communicated the bug reading cinelerra's DV +PCM avis to kino developer Dan Dennedy and he says that kino 0.9.3 will correctly read those cinelerra's avis ... (produced with at least r940... since cinelerra had a bug of itself before that) Kino already reads cinelerra's rawdv without problems. I havent tested for mov yet... bye andraz ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Oops, I didn't read johannes email above! didn't need to propose git! (was browsing email via web interface rathe than thunderbird...) Pierre Pierre Dumuid wrote: Thanks Andraz, BTW: Johannes mentioned this idea on IRC and I second it, To save on commits to the SVN these ideas can be placed in a git repo set up on pipapo for git users. This can provide a place for others to try your idea before commit. The branching system also I find really cool to in being able to keep commits which didn't in the end make it, and everyone can still see / find it easiliy. Pierre Quoting Andraž Tori <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: done bye andraz On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 23:45 +0200, Johannes Sixt wrote: On Friday 20 October 2006 20:49, Andraž Tori wrote: Yes, since everyone is so overhelmingly against this change, i'll find out some other solution ... Though i still think editing modes are something that confuses users... it's the same as emacs ... powerful but only handfull of people will master them. i'll try to code up something tomorrow Please, pretty please, make the reversal of r942 a *separate* commit, not intermingled with whatever your new solution will be. Thank you, -- Hannes ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Thanks Andraz, BTW: Johannes mentioned this idea on IRC and I second it, To save on commits to the SVN these ideas can be placed in a git repo set up on pipapo for git users. This can provide a place for others to try your idea before commit. The branching system also I find really cool to in being able to keep commits which didn't in the end make it, and everyone can still see / find it easiliy. Pierre Quoting Andraž Tori <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > done > > bye > andraz > > On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 23:45 +0200, Johannes Sixt wrote: > > On Friday 20 October 2006 20:49, Andraž Tori wrote: > > > Yes, since everyone is so overhelmingly against this change, i'll find > > > out some other solution ... > > > > > > Though i still think editing modes are something that confuses users... > > > it's the same as emacs ... powerful but only handfull of people will > > > master them. > > > > > > i'll try to code up something tomorrow > > > > Please, pretty please, make the reversal of r942 a *separate* commit, not > > intermingled with whatever your new solution will be. > > > > Thank you, > > -- Hannes > > > > ___ > > Cinelerra mailing list > > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra > > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra > ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
done bye andraz On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 23:45 +0200, Johannes Sixt wrote: > On Friday 20 October 2006 20:49, Andraž Tori wrote: > > Yes, since everyone is so overhelmingly against this change, i'll find > > out some other solution ... > > > > Though i still think editing modes are something that confuses users... > > it's the same as emacs ... powerful but only handfull of people will > > master them. > > > > i'll try to code up something tomorrow > > Please, pretty please, make the reversal of r942 a *separate* commit, not > intermingled with whatever your new solution will be. > > Thank you, > -- Hannes > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
On Friday 20 October 2006 20:49, Andraž Tori wrote: > Yes, since everyone is so overhelmingly against this change, i'll find > out some other solution ... > > Though i still think editing modes are something that confuses users... > it's the same as emacs ... powerful but only handfull of people will > master them. > > i'll try to code up something tomorrow Please, pretty please, make the reversal of r942 a *separate* commit, not intermingled with whatever your new solution will be. Thank you, -- Hannes ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
On Thursday 19 October 2006 19:11, Andraž Tori wrote: > a patch that completely merges both editing modes of cinelerra into a > single one, with shift key being the modifier ... > > editing modes are one of the hardest things for new learners of cinelerra > to comprehend (by my experience) and there is really no reason not to merge > them, since most of people expect to use shift for selecting. > > bye > andraz Andraz, please revert this change. While it may get newbies going faster, it makes at least my workflow completely awkward, because I never use drag&drop mode. I would always have to have the Shift key down. And even then I cannot place the cursor precisely on the start or beginning of a media or effect border because it just extends the existing selection (clicking in the time bar is not precise enough). Now, what would you think about switching to git? Then you could easily publish such a change for others to test without forcing all users to use it right away. (Well, a svn branch could also be used...) -- Hannes ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Yes, since everyone is so overhelmingly against this change, i'll find out some other solution ... Though i still think editing modes are something that confuses users... it's the same as emacs ... powerful but only handfull of people will master them. i'll try to code up something tomorrow bye andraž On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 14:30 +0200, Christian Thaeter wrote: > Andraž Tori wrote: > > a patch that completely merges both editing modes of cinelerra into a > > single one, with shift key being the modifier ... > > > > editing modes are one of the hardest things for new learners of cinelerra > > to comprehend (by my experience) and there is really no reason not to merge > > them, since most of people expect to use shift for selecting. > > > > > Compromise: > > Keep both editing modes as current but add the shift-key to toggle into > the alternate mode. Then people can work like before AND the new single > edit-mode work and anyone is happy. > > Christian > > (2nd try, first post stuck in a moderator approval) > > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Hi! > Andraž Tori wrote: > > editing modes are one of the hardest things for new learners of > cinelerra to comprehend I'm a genuine dull beginner. I've never had any problem with editing modes. (I hope not to have my newbie certificate cancelled for that) :-) Raffaella ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Andraž Tori wrote: > a patch that completely merges both editing modes of cinelerra into a single > one, with shift key being the modifier ... > > editing modes are one of the hardest things for new learners of cinelerra to > comprehend (by my experience) and there is really no reason not to merge > them, since most of people expect to use shift for selecting. > Compromise: Keep both editing modes as current but add the shift-key to toggle into the alternate mode. Then people can work like before AND the new single edit-mode work and anyone is happy. Christian (2nd try, first post stuck in a moderator approval) ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006, Nicolas wrote: > I was too a bit surprised by the change. At first, when moving the > cursor on the timeline, I wasn't able to do NOT select a part of the > video. All I wanted was to see the flashing insertion point, without any > selection. > Fortunately, minmax helped me on the IRC, and he advised me to move the > insertion point by clicking on the upper part of the main screen, where > the time is displayed. I too haven't had much chance to test the change, but this sure doesn't seem like a good thing to me. When I sync things to a audio track, I want to set the insertion point by clicking on or very near the sound waveform. If I have to click on the time bar at the top in order to get a click instead of a drag, that's going to sharply increase the amount of cursing I do while using Cinelerra. And isn't the time bar already pretty much occupied by labels? If it's going to be hard to avoid clicking on a nearby label instead of the point I want, that will also suck. If you just removed drag'n'drop mode entirely, that would be better than this. I almost never use drag'n'drop mode and wouldn't miss it. However, I wouldn't advocate doing that, because I'm aware that some people do like to use drag'n'drop mode. What if instead, the drag'n'drop/normal setting were made less accessible, so that it would be less likely for people to change it without knowing what they're doing? -- Matthew Skala [EMAIL PROTECTED]Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Ok.. I really don't like this modification. I hate having to hold the shift down. I work with selection more than anything else... Andraz, Isn't your patch making the default mode "drag and drop" and modify the functionality of dragging on the time-bar, or pressing the shift key to turn selectionabilty mode on. (i.e. creating extra effort for every attempt to use selection style editing) Why not bring the modes back, but make the default "drag and drop" if you like, and add keep the modifiers there. That way when you teach newbies, you can place it in the "drag and drop" mode and leave it there for them. You could even lock it to not be switchable in the preferences.. Failing that, I'll have to use a personal branch of cinelerra at all times for my own use.. Pierre Andraž Tori wrote: On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 09:59 +0200, Kurt Georg Hooss wrote: folks, once i understood i found it makes sense to have the two modes. but having the issue on the agenda anyway... there is one closely related thing that really annoys me. in either mode, i found it problematic that cutting out some part (be it a complete clip or a drag-&-drop selection) automatically moves the rest of the track from the right, leaving no gap. i mean, would it not be more intuitive if cutting would just cut and moving would just move? sure, combining those two functionalities may be desirable in cases... but how can i just remove some part from some (but not all) tracks, leaving the rest synchronous with the remaining tracks? what you really are trying to do is "copy'n'mute" just press 'c' and then 'm' afterwards. as of when dragging clips by mouse, ... if you see >< as insertion point the clip will be cutout and inserted at the insertion point, if you don't see it, clip will be "copy&mute" and inserted at insertion point bye andraz ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 09:59 +0200, Kurt Georg Hooss wrote: > folks, once i understood i found it makes sense to have the two modes. > but having the issue on the agenda anyway... > there is one closely related thing that really annoys me. > > in either mode, i found it problematic that cutting out some part > (be it a complete clip or a drag-&-drop selection) > automatically moves the rest of the track from the right, leaving no gap. > > i mean, would it not be more intuitive if cutting would just cut > and moving would just move? > > sure, combining those two functionalities may be desirable in cases... > but how can i just remove some part from some (but not all) tracks, > leaving the rest synchronous with the remaining tracks? what you really are trying to do is "copy'n'mute" just press 'c' and then 'm' afterwards. as of when dragging clips by mouse, ... if you see >< as insertion point the clip will be cutout and inserted at the insertion point, if you don't see it, clip will be "copy&mute" and inserted at insertion point bye andraz ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
folks, once i understood i found it makes sense to have the two modes. but having the issue on the agenda anyway... there is one closely related thing that really annoys me. in either mode, i found it problematic that cutting out some part (be it a complete clip or a drag-&-drop selection) automatically moves the rest of the track from the right, leaving no gap. i mean, would it not be more intuitive if cutting would just cut and moving would just move? sure, combining those two functionalities may be desirable in cases... but how can i just remove some part from some (but not all) tracks, leaving the rest synchronous with the remaining tracks? thanks & cheers georg -- dr.k.g.hooss schoepfung & wandel wissenschaftliche medienberatung breite strasse 6-8, d-23617 luebeck www.schoepfung-und-wandel.de ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Hello, I was too a bit surprised by the change. At first, when moving the cursor on the timeline, I wasn't able to do NOT select a part of the video. All I wanted was to see the flashing insertion point, without any selection. Fortunately, minmax helped me on the IRC, and he advised me to move the insertion point by clicking on the upper part of the main screen, where the time is displayed. That worked, but I'm a bit sceptical. I'll have to use the latest revision for a longer time to have an opinion. Nicolas. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andraž Tori schrieb: > a patch that completely merges both editing modes of cinelerra into a single > one, with shift key > being the modifier ... > > editing modes are one of the hardest things for new learners of cinelerra to > comprehend (by my > experience) and there is really no reason not to merge them, since most of > people expect to use > shift for selecting. > > bye andraz > Oh noo, please don't your point with cinelerra beginners is valid, though. Modes are confusing, at first. But they exist for very good reasons. I personally use drag-n-drop editing only in the first 1% of time when working on a new project. Its ease of use is good when rearranging and changing things quickly. But most of the time things are set and I do adjustments and tweeking or have very carefully to consider any moving of clips (keeping sync, L-cuts, overlays, mask tracs etc.). So, most of the time I use cut-n-paste editing and I really appreciate it. The main problems with drag-n-drop mode for day to day work are: - - you have to click to the timbar ruler to set the playback position --> way to much mouse movement. - - selecting is difficult (ok, you probably fixed that, but this forces me to press shift very often) - - it is easy to move a clip inadvertendly and thus destroy much work without noting it. The problem with using shift for marking is: this forces me to have my left hand at the left side of the keyboard. But, frequently I have it on the numpad (for navigating with keys) and have the right hand on my mouse. So, please Andraz, if you really want to change this, at least leave a setting somewhere to retain the old behaviour, because otherwise you make things much more difficult for a power user in favor for the beginners. (and cinelerra isn't focused on beginners, isn't it ;-) ) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFOERXZbZrB6HelLIRAuQKAJ9XM45AI3vM/qPI74JJW5qm4AlCxQCZAdTB nRIHVy2y0TvcUW78snaGZ6w= =m+iB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] merge editing modes
Hi Andraz,
I find this patch REALLY difficult to use. I really don't know how to
work with this patch anymore..
I personally have previewed a project via clicking-and-dragging. in a
scrubbing manner. I know one can do this on the time-line, but these
selection doesn't grow with the view. Also holding down the shift key
sucks!
I really don't like the default of clicking on the time-line to be
dragging clips around! (especially
I am also used to looking at a feature, ( be it in the audio, or the
video) and clicking just before it / after it to set the cursor at that
location to play back from, or be the "out" of my new selection.
With your patch, the default is "do nothing" and if you move a pixel,
sucked in, you've move your edits around (and possibly loosing sync)! I
like the fact that to move edit's around took extra work of going into a
different mode.
Just my thought.
Pierre
Andraž Tori wrote:
a patch that completely merges both editing modes of cinelerra into a single
one, with shift key being the modifier ...
editing modes are one of the hardest things for new learners of cinelerra to
comprehend (by my experience) and there is really no reason not to merge them,
since most of people expect to use shift for selecting.
bye
andraz
diff -ru --exclude-from exclude hvirtual-svn/cinelerra/cwindowgui.C
hvirtual-2.1/cinelerra/cwindowgui.C
--- hvirtual-svn/cinelerra/cwindowgui.C 2006-10-12 16:59:13.0 +0200
+++ hvirtual-2.1/cinelerra/cwindowgui.C 2006-10-19 14:22:43.0 +0200
@@ -612,8 +612,6 @@
cwindow->gui,
mwindow->theme->cedit_x,
mwindow->theme->cedit_y,
- mwindow->edl->session->editing_mode,
- 0,
1,
0,
0,
diff -ru --exclude-from exclude hvirtual-svn/cinelerra/editpanel.C
hvirtual-2.1/cinelerra/editpanel.C
--- hvirtual-svn/cinelerra/editpanel.C 2006-10-12 12:09:09.0 +0200
+++ hvirtual-2.1/cinelerra/editpanel.C 2006-10-19 14:22:16.0 +0200
@@ -31,8 +31,6 @@
BC_WindowBase *subwindow,
int x,
int y,
- int editing_mode,
- int use_editing_mode,
int use_keyframe,
int use_splice, // Extra buttons
int use_overwrite,
@@ -48,8 +46,6 @@
int is_mwindow,
int use_cut)
{
- this->editing_mode = editing_mode;
- this->use_editing_mode = use_editing_mode;
this->use_keyframe = use_keyframe;
this->use_splice = use_splice;
this->use_overwrite = use_overwrite;
@@ -70,8 +66,6 @@
this->x = x;
this->y = y;
this->meter_panel = 0;
- arrow = 0;
- ibeam = 0;
keyframe = 0;
fit = 0;
fit_autos = 0;
@@ -89,21 +83,12 @@
void EditPanel::update()
{
- int new_editing_mode = mwindow->edl->session->editing_mode;
- if(arrow) arrow->update(new_editing_mode == EDITING_ARROW);
- if(ibeam) ibeam->update(new_editing_mode == EDITING_IBEAM);
if(keyframe) keyframe->update(mwindow->edl->session->auto_keyframes);
subwindow->flush();
}
void EditPanel::delete_buttons()
{
- if(use_editing_mode)
- {
- if(arrow) delete arrow;
- if(ibeam) delete ibeam;
- }
-
if(use_keyframe)
delete keyframe;
@@ -144,19 +129,11 @@
SET_TRACE
- if(use_editing_mode)
- {
- subwindow->add_subwindow(arrow = new ArrowButton(mwindow, this,
x1, y1));
- x1 += arrow->get_w();
- subwindow->add_subwindow(ibeam = new IBeamButton(mwindow, this,
x1, y1));
- x1 += ibeam->get_w();
- }
-
if(use_keyframe)
{
subwindow->add_subwindow(keyframe = new KeyFrameButton(mwindow,
x1, y1));
x1 += keyframe->get_w();
- x1 += mwindow->theme->toggle_margin;
+// x1 += mwindow->theme->toggle_margin;
}
// Mandatory
@@ -320,19 +297,11 @@
this->y = y;
x1 = x, y1 = y;
- if(use_editing_mode)
- {
- arrow->reposition_window(x1, y1);
- x1 += arrow->get_w();
- ibeam->reposition_window(x1, y1);
- x1 += ibeam->get_w();
- }
-
if(use_keyframe)
{
keyframe->reposition_window(x1, y1);
x1 += keyframe->get_w();
- x1 += mwindow->theme->toggle_margin;
+// x1 += mwindow->theme->toggle_margin;
}
inpoint->reposition_window(x1, y1);
@@ -1004,55 +973,6 @@
-ArrowButton::ArrowButton(MWindow *mwindow, EditPanel *panel, int x, int y)
- : BC_Toggle(x,
- y,
- mwindow->theme->get_image_set("arrow"),
- mwindow->edl->session->editing_mode == EDITING_ARROW,
- "",
- 0,
- 0,
- 0)
-{
- this->mwindow = mwindow;
- this->panel = panel;
- set_tooltip(_("Drag and drop editing mode"));
-}
-
-int ArrowButton::handle_event()
-{
-
