RE: dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342]
I think most of our disagreement is over semantics. There is one thing you said that took me a minute to figure out, but here is my hypothesis. "there are guys who are passing the lab without any experience (which is not necesarily a problem, but when they start demanding outlandish salaries, then that is a problem)." I think this boils down to an example of capitalism. We have an experienced CCIE called nrf and a "labrat" CCIE called labrat1. Labrat1 tells people that interview him he wants 200,000, because he passed his CCIE. The employers all turn him down. Labrat1 has unrealistic expectations and there is enough of a supply the employers can wait or find someone else. Poor labrat1 can go back to crimping cable and getting coffee for nrf or accept there offer for a mere 80,000. Why is this a problem for you? I didn't really understand it until I realized what happens when the supply of labrats goes down. Nrf convinces Cisco to make the tests more difficult so poor labrat1 can't pass and there are 3,000 CCIEs in the world instead of 10,000. Nrf goes to get a job and says I want 200,000. The company hires him, because poor labrat1 is crimping cable. Nrf makes more money when labrat1 can't pass the exam. If this isn't true then why do you care if labrat1 gets a job or not? How does that affect you? "Whether you want to call them the 'L' word or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter, it's just words. If you think the 'L' word is pejorative and you want to call them something else, fine. So using or not using the 'L' word in not going to change the fact that people really are passing the lab without experience." I think alot of us don't have a choice. If you don't have a job that provides alot of Cisco experience, you probably have a hard time finding one that does. I don't see why I should be looked down on for that. -Original Message- From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342] ""Tom Monte"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Myth or Fact > Unless your post includes a statistcal sampling of people who employ CCIEs, > I am afraid it isn't a fact. I don't like to speak on behalf of the rest of > the world so I chose the word myth, maybe generalization would have been a > better choice. My post was directed at all posts that use the words "real" > CCIE, not just yours. > > Point #1 > I agree a new CCIE should make less and it is silly to complain about it, > but then that wasn't my point and this wasn't directed entirely at you. I > object to lumping people into the categories "lab-rat" and calling the CCIE > a "piece of paper." There are alot of people on this list working hard and > sincerely to obtain there CCIE. I'm not out to denigrate people's efforts. What I'm saying is that people need to put the CCIE in perspective. It is not an end-goal in itself but a single step (albeit a fairly substantial step) in what is a long chain of goals necessary for a successful network engineer. People who are studying hard should continue to do so, but also be realistic about what the cert can and cannot do for them. > > Point #2 > Again, my post was not entirely directed at you, but the general perception > that the CCIE is so easy anyone can do it. I am sure the difficulty will > still discourage most people from pursuing the CCIE, even if your posts > don't. :O I have never lumped the words 'easy' and 'CCIE' together. I may have lumped the words 'easier' (but not the word 'easy') and 'CCIE' together in regards to the one-day-lab change, but as you can see, I have actually stated that the one-day-lab is probably not easier. And if my posts encourage or discourage people to do something, than so be it. I believe people are best served by getting complete information on what is going on. The fact is, there are guys who are passing the lab without any experience (which is not necesarily a problem, but when they start demanding outlandish salaries, then that is a problem). Whether you want to call them the 'L' word or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter, it's just words. If you think the 'L' word is pejorative and you want to call them something else, fine. So using or not using the 'L' word in not going to change the fact that people really are passing the lab without experience. That's the truth, and if that encourages more people to try the lab, then so be it. What it might also do is convince Cisco to make changes to the program. > > Point #3 > I am sure we
RE: dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342]
Myth or Fact Unless your post includes a statistcal sampling of people who employ CCIEs, I am afraid it isn't a fact. I don't like to speak on behalf of the rest of the world so I chose the word myth, maybe generalization would have been a better choice. My post was directed at all posts that use the words "real" CCIE, not just yours. Point #1 I agree a new CCIE should make less and it is silly to complain about it, but then that wasn't my point and this wasn't directed entirely at you. I object to lumping people into the categories "lab-rat" and calling the CCIE a "piece of paper." There are alot of people on this list working hard and sincerely to obtain there CCIE. Point #2 Again, my post was not entirely directed at you, but the general perception that the CCIE is so easy anyone can do it. I am sure the difficulty will still discourage most people from pursuing the CCIE, even if your posts don't. :O Point #3 I am sure we are all happy you are in the "clever lucky not a paper CCIE" group. My point was be thankful for what you have, because there are alot of people who would like to be CCIEs. -Original Message- From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342] I have a feeling that I'm going to regret doing this. But anyway, inline. The bottom line is that these aren't 'myths', but actual facts as to how Cisco engineers are perceived by employers. ""Tom Monte"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I want to write about all the posts that use the words "real" CCIE. I hope > we can beat this into the ground and never speak of it again. > > > 1.) I think people should spend more time on technical issues and career > opportunities and less on putting people into categories. "Yes, I have less > Cisco experience than most people on this list, oh my god crucify me now!" > > Lesson: Everyone starts knowing nothing. Look, I never said there was anything wrong with knowing less than the next guy. The real problem is knowing less than the next guy and still demanding the same respect and pay as that next guy simply because you have a piece of paper, and then when you don't get that same respect and pay, then whining incessantly about it. Again, the problem is not that lab-rats exist, but that they have delusions of grandeur. > > > 2.) I have been working on Cisco certifications since 1999 and I frequently > spend a month studying for a single test, while it took me a month to get my > MCSE and a month for my CNE. I also only spent about $1,000 on those > certifications and at least 8k on Cisco study materials. I also read alot > about how the CCIE is devalued, because of the new one day format. You have > less time and cover the same material that sounds harder to me. > > Lesson: It isn't easy and it isn't cheap. But on the other hand, while things may not be cheap or easy, things may have gotten cheaper or easier. I'm not referring to the one-day test for which it is still unclear whether it is easier or not (in fact I suspect probably not). But the fact is that when something gets easier, it inevitably gets devalued. > > > 3.) Jobs only want someone with experience, but how do you get it? I didn't > get lucky enough to end up in a job where I got Cisco experience early in my > career. > > Lesson: No matter how smart you are, luck had something to do with your > success today. But so do things like hard work and ambition. Luck indeed plays a role in everybody's life, I would be a fool to say otherwise. But I believe it is also true that you can 'make your own luck'. When two groups of people are presented the same set of opportunities, the first group may exploit them much more effectively than the second group. For example, I'll make a digresssion here, the history of United States immigration (and actually immigration around the world) is replete with such examples, where penniless immigrant ethnic groups were forced to take the worst possible job opportunities or the worst possible farming land (because they couldn't speak English or due to overt discrimination or whatever) that the native population could not or would not exploit, but after a few generations, those immigrants were earning incomes equal to or exceeding that of the native population. How's this possible if your success primarily is dictated primarily by whether you were provided opportunities or not? It's not so much whether you are exposed to lots of opportunities but what you do with the opportunities you are exposed to that really determines your success. Taking it back to the networking arena, I know lots
dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342]
I want to write about all the posts that use the words "real" CCIE. I hope we can beat this into the ground and never speak of it again. 1.) I think people should spend more time on technical issues and career opportunities and less on putting people into categories. "Yes, I have less Cisco experience than most people on this list, oh my god crucify me now!" Lesson: Everyone starts knowing nothing. 2.) I have been working on Cisco certifications since 1999 and I frequently spend a month studying for a single test, while it took me a month to get my MCSE and a month for my CNE. I also only spent about $1,000 on those certifications and at least 8k on Cisco study materials. I also read alot about how the CCIE is devalued, because of the new one day format. You have less time and cover the same material that sounds harder to me. Lesson: It isn't easy and it isn't cheap. 3.) Jobs only want someone with experience, but how do you get it? I didn't get lucky enough to end up in a job where I got Cisco experience early in my career. Lesson: No matter how smart you are, luck had something to do with your success today. This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and contact the sender by return e-mail. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=44342&t=44342 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
silly encryption question [7:41583]
I am studying for my MCNS test. The Cisco Press book says that Diffie-Hillman public key encryption is used to create a secure channel to exchange DES private keys for data encryption. If Diffie-Hillman is secure enough to transfer the DES private keys, why not use it to transfer the data? This seems silly and needlessly complex. Can someone explain this? This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and contact the sender by return e-mail. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=41583&t=41583 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Can anyone break this Cisco 4912G password? [7:40505]
It is possible to break a Cisco IOS password. I had a piece of software on my Palm Pilot that does it, but I left it home. :( I know there are alot of others and there was a website that did it at one point. Cisco password encryption isn't that strong. I would try "password", "cisco" and the name of your company before you go any further. If you know something about the person who set it up, you could try things related to them. People tend to pick there children or a favorite sport as a password or simply ask him or her if they are available. I will look around and see if I can find something to break them for you. -Original Message- From: Orlosky, Glenn M [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Can anyone break this Cisco 4912G password? [7:40505] I have forgotten the enable level password on this Cisco 4912G Catalyst OS switch. I don't want to go through the Password Recovery Procedure on this production switch. Can you help? Thanks Glenn set password $1$0o8Z$yoRgp68KqY9Qi1Hi9mu8s0 set enablepass $1$FMFQ$HfZR5DUszVHIRhrz4h6V70 This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and contact the sender by return e-mail. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40531&t=40505 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I didn't realize you sent this to the group so, I will post my response here. Harold, You have nothing to apologize for. I thought the hot vendor thing was funny. I am glad I found a place where people are in the same position I am in. It was really lonely trying to go through all these tests, reading, and studying on my own. I get the impression you are going through the same thing I am. You have experience in the IT field, your talented, motivated, passed some tests and your frustrated to find out its hard to break into the Cisco world. I hope things work out for you. In a way, I see us as in this togehter. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask. If you live in New York City, I would be happy to share my lab. If you want resume help, just forward it to me. I haven't set a date. I have been working on the CCDP and the CSS-1. I think it will help my short term job hunting potential. I am taking a CCIE Lab class hopefully in July or August. I would like to attempt the test before my wife and I have a baby at the end of September. X -Original Message- From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] x, I apologize if my email insinuated that you aren't talented or qualified; that wasn't my intent. I applaud your motives for pursuing the IE; they aren't far from my own. I think you should be prepared though, as should I, to find out after we get our numbers that the CCIE is going to be listed for many jobs as a minimum requirement. The job market is governed by supply and demand; it always has been, it always will be. The demand for IE's has dropped, while the supply is steadily increasing. Good luck with your job hunt, and likewise I hope your lab goes well. Have you set a date yet? -Original Message- From: x [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu 4/4/2002 12:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post. I am not a recent CCNA graduate with no experience in the field or a "street vendor"(this one is pretty funny to me living in New York). I am looking for Cisco career advice. Judging from the responses, I am not the only person who wants to make the leap from a job that is part time Cisco to full time Cisco. I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix. I passed the CNE and got a junior Novell position. I passed the MCSE and then got a junior position. I worked on learning OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Redhat Linux and got a NT/Unix job that included Cisco switches, a vpn concentrator, a PIX and a PIX to PIX vpn. I also passed the CCDA, CCNA, CCNP, and the CCIE written. I am planning on taking the CCDP and CSS-1 before finishing my CCIE. I have my own home lab complete with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000. I would like to get more hands on Cisco experience in the real world before I try the CCIE Lab. I am in a position now where I am certified to a degree, have some experience, and a home lab. Usually at this point I can land a junior position and get real experience to move into a senior position. It just seems like a huge gap in the job market. All the job ads from Hotjobs, monster, and headhunter are looking for Cisco people are asking for CCIE's or people with 5+ years experience. These people had to get that experience somewhere and there must be Cisco positions that don't require a CCIE. I am going to go out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to 20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies that can't afford to hire a CCIE, but need Cisco help. Where are these jobs posted? Do I need to know a secret handshake? hehe If you are a CCIE or have 5+ years Cisco experience how did you get it(Priscilla Openhiemer might have spelled that wrong or any other CCIEs or highly experienced people on the list)? I would like to hear your story of how you "made it." Maybe it can give me an idea of what I need to do. This brings me to why I want to be a CCIE. I first heard the CCIE was the most difficult certification to achieve when I was just starting in networking. I was told the CCIE Lab is almost impossible and there were only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or CNEs. I was hooked. Its not about the money, because anyone can make plenty of money just doing Microsoft, Novell and/or Unix with alot less effort. It isn't because Cisco is "hot."
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
This is a good question and definitely a big part of the question I am trying to ask. -Original Message- From: Andy Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] Maybe your question should be: Do most CCIEs obtain their current job because of their extensive experience and CCIE cert came later or do they get their CCIE cert first with some experience similar to yours and then the job doors start openning up for them? The answer to this question will probably give you a better idea on how to approach/shape your current job or start looking! Andy This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and contact the sender by return e-mail. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40511&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
