RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Hi, I don't normally participate in threads like this but I could not resist. Everything posted so far is probably correct and necessary and would apply generically to any job hunt. I have my lab scheduled for October (first attempt). I started this odyssey a couple of years ago and like many of us have spent far too much time and money to back out now. But, I do not believe that getting my number is going to suddenly make a huge difference in my earning potential. Everyone's profile is different but I think the trick is to be diverse, willing to work long hours, travel and wear alot of hats. Let's face it, the 90's, God blessum, are over and so are the days of $150,000 salaries for CCIE's. I have worked overseas for the past several years on military bases and there is plenty of oppurtunity for experienced people in this little niche if you are willing to do it. The certifications will get you in the door, the USAF requires at least a CCNP for senior infrastructure guys but experience is the biggest factor by far. They will not consider someone with less than a couple of years experience, cert or not. I honestly cannot comment on the job market at home except to say it sounds dismal, if there really are CCIE's out there fighting over $35K jobs than to hell with this whole idea, open a taco stand. Regards, Douglas Mizell CCNP/CCDP >From: "Carroll Kong" >Reply-To: "Carroll Kong" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143] >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:17:55 GMT >Received: from mc5-f22.law1.hotmail.com ([65.54.252.29]) by >mc5-s20.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Tue, 24 Jun >2003 07:16:07 -0700 >Received: from groupstudy.com ([66.220.63.9]) by mc5-f22.law1.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:15:36 -0700 >Received: from groupstudy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5ODHuKp020931GroupStudy Mailer; Tue, 24 >Jun 2003 13:17:56 GMT >Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h5ODHuMc020929GroupStudy Submission Server; >Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:17:56 GMT >Received: from groupstudy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5ODHtKp020925GroupStudy Mailer; Tue, 24 >Jun 2003 13:17:55 GMT >Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])by groupstudy.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) >id h5ODHtH2020924GroupStudy Submission Server; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:17:55 >GMT >X-Message-Info: KXYDjjzkRiDlBmn4YorfHSkwJ+8H7+i6 >Message-Id: >X-GroupStudy-Version: 3.1.1a >X-GroupStudy: Network Technical >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2003 14:15:36.0766 (UTC) >FILETIME=[152495E0:01C33A5B] > >A lot of us have mentioned that it is not usually just the raw >certification that gets the job, and in some cases, not even both >experience and the certification. > >Even NRF has mentioned diversity is the key, but on top of that >people skills. Lack people skills, you will find yourself not making >as much as you "could" be (within a reasonable degree considering >realistic opportunity costs). > >As you mentioned as well, depending on the kind of job you are going >for and the politics involved around it, a certification may be >useful, experience may be useful, the people skills...there is a >whole plethora of things and all of the "importance" levels of each >requirement vary greatly for each job. > >Basically, I do not think it is easy to make a full checklist of all >the things you need and if you do it, you will instantly get the job. > It changes per job a lot. Employers have different requirements and >goals. I think at best we can leave it at that. > >NRF is not saying diversity is not the key either, all he is saying >is that, considering all of those "requirements" that I mentioned, >NRF is saying that the CCIE alone will almost certainly never match >most of the jobs out there. > >I am assuming NRF means such because he has not explicitly mentioned >otherwise. All he said was, the CCIE alone is not enough. I think >he responded to the "Linux vs CCIE" thread by saying how most should >know both, but not necessarily go all gung ho on the Linux cert. > > > I'd say diversity is the key. I know several CCIEs who, outside of R/S > > don't have much to offer in the way of skillset and they are not >commanding > > as high of salaries as guys without a number but deeper and more diverse > > expertise. It totally depends on the individual, the need, the location >and > > the experiences (which are unique to and ever
RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Jeez, That is ridiculous, the program is run by Cisco, a private corporation. It is not a government entity and requiring those types of prerequisites makes no sense. How do you quantify experience anyway? What about a guy who has fifteen years in the industry, gets his CCIE but has worked on the same technology, same network etc for years, he is not working with new technology so has no real experience with it either. A "labrat" as you call it has taken the time to explore the new stuff and will at least have an idea how to work with it in a production environment. There are two side to this arguement but I think there are a few who seem to be angry that a motivated individual is able to study and pull off something that they believe is reserved for only experienced engineers. It would not be in Cisco's best interest to load the CCIE with unnecessary baggage. The fact is that if you can pass the test you are probably an above average guy technically and have the potential to learn and master just about anything that could reasonably be expected of a network engineer. Regards, Douglas Mizell CCNP/CCDP >From: "n rf" >Reply-To: "n rf" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143] >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:48:01 GMT >Received: from mc9-f36.bay6.hotmail.com ([65.54.166.43]) by >mc9-s13.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 25 Jun >2003 20:12:30 -0700 >Received: from groupstudy.com ([66.220.63.9]) by mc9-f36.bay6.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:12:07 -0700 >Received: from groupstudy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q1m2Kp018857GroupStudy Mailer; Thu, 26 >Jun 2003 01:48:02 GMT >Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h5Q1m24T018856GroupStudy Submission Server; >Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:48:02 GMT >Received: from groupstudy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q1m1Kp018851GroupStudy Mailer; Thu, 26 >Jun 2003 01:48:01 GMT >Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])by groupstudy.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) >id h5Q1m13K018850GroupStudy Submission Server; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:48:01 >GMT >X-Message-Info: KXYDjjzkRiDlBmn4YorfHSkwJ+8H7+i6 >Message-Id: >X-GroupStudy-Version: 3.1.1a >X-GroupStudy: Network Technical >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2003 03:12:07.0637 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B9E11050:01C33B90] > >Jack Nalbandian wrote: > > > > The consensus among all corporate managers that I have dealt > > with is that > > CCIEs cannot obtain their status with at least some real > > experience. That > > is the consensus. Don't shoot me for it. > > >Those corporate managers are wrong. They may want to look up the term >"lab-rat" and see how it is commonly used, especially on this ng. > >Also, consider this. Those people who really think that the CCIE is >impossible to pass without experience should freely support (or at least >have no objection to) an idea I've been pushing for awhile - namely >requiring a minimum number of years of verifiable networking experience in >order to be eligible to take the exam, and for which all candidates would >be >subject to a random background check to catch liars - similar to how some >companies run background checks on their job candidates. If it's >categorically true that nobody could ever pass the lab without experience, >then this new requirement should not be a problem, right? _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71432&t=71143 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
351-001 [7:43231]
Hello all, I just got finished with the beta written exam and thought I'd comment while it's still fresh. This test was far and away the most difficult Cisco exam I have ever seen and probably the toughest cert exam period. Out of 150 questions I would say that there were thirty that I just guessed at, very heavy on multicasting and MPLS, two things in which I have no realworld exposure. Some BGP scenarios that were beyond my imagination and certainly farfetched even in a large ISP. Bottom line is they have taken some of us at our word that the original written exam was too easy. I have yet to take the 350-001 but I have been studying towards it for the last four months with practice exams and have the CCDP, this new test is not for rookies. The worst part of this is that after probably failing my first Cisco exam I came away knowing that I am a long way from being ready for the lab. I am not going to give up by a long shot but I have to re-think my strategy, I need more training. Between my home lab and work I have probably touched about fifty percent of what is covered. Back to the drawing board for me. BTW. This test did allow you to go backwards. I did not have a single type in the command question and only one decipher the RIF question. Lots of scenarios and network illustrations. Doug Mizell CCNP/CCDP _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43231&t=43231 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amazing!! Passed the beta [7:45920]
I just received word via Prometric (couldn't stand the suspense so I called them) and to my utter amazement I passed the CCIE Beta exam!! I thought it was the most difficult test I have ever attempted and was sure I had failed my first Cisco exam. I thought I had failed because it hit MPLS and Multicasting pretty hard and I am weak in those areas. I must have done better in the others, anyway a pass is a pass. Now on to what seperates the men from the boys, first attempt in November I hope. Thanks to the regulars of this list, although I don't correspond too terribly much I have been a member of this list for almost three years and Howard, Priscilla and Chuck have answered many questions for me indirectly. This is awesome. Doug Mizell CCNP _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=45920&t=45920 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Technology, Certification, Skill Sets, and Alt [7:71399]
Wow, There are some big words being tossed around, I had to look one up in the dictionary. I subscribe to this list for technical insight from alot of people who are much smarter than I and willing to help because that is the type of people they are. I never expected a vocabulary lesson to boot, I learn something every time I take the time to read through this list. The things being discussed such as certification values, salaries, management styles etc. are all extremely subjective. I personally think it is rare in this industry today to find a position where you as a network professional are really a "valued" member of an organization. In most cases, unless the core business is IT then we are considered overhead, in some cases expensive overhead. Most managers I have worked for including my present management have a very vague idea of what a CCIE is and absolutely no clue what it takes to become one. For that matter, certifications period are window dressing in their opinion. It used to be fairly common for companies to encourage, reward and even fund technical training in pursuit of XYZ certification because it was in their interest as well. I have not had a manager in the last seven years who cared one way or the other if I pursued a certification and to get him/her to pony up to pay for it...forget it!! This industry has changed dramatically and has, but for a select few, become every man for himself. There is no loyalty in either direction and job security is now a buzzword for headhunters, it does not exist in most corporations today. No sour grapes here, I just see it for what it is and play my cards accordingly. Best of look to all, Regards, Douglas Mizell CCNP/CCDP >From: "n rf" >Reply-To: "n rf" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Technology, Certification, Skill Sets, and Alt [7:71399] >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:26:04 GMT >Received: from mc9-f8.bay6.hotmail.com ([65.54.166.15]) by >mc9-s14.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 25 Jun >2003 21:15:05 -0700 >Received: from groupstudy.com ([66.220.63.9]) by mc9-f8.bay6.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:15:04 -0700 >Received: from groupstudy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q3Q5Kp028720GroupStudy Mailer; Thu, 26 >Jun 2003 03:26:05 GMT >Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h5Q3Q5i3028719GroupStudy Submission Server; >Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:26:05 GMT >Received: from groupstudy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by groupstudy.com >(8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q3Q4Kp028713GroupStudy Mailer; Thu, 26 >Jun 2003 03:26:04 GMT >Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])by groupstudy.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) >id h5Q3Q4wF028712GroupStudy Submission Server; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:26:04 >GMT >X-Message-Info: KXYDjjzkRiDlBmn4YorfHSkwJ+8H7+i6 >Message-Id: >X-GroupStudy-Version: 3.1.1a >X-GroupStudy: Network Technical >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2003 04:15:04.0702 (UTC) >FILETIME=[852F71E0:01C33B99] > > > > > Back in the days when baseball was understood to be the > > ultimate expression > > of American values, this may have been true. Take each > > individual and weigh > > his/her strengths and weaknesses, consider the overall value of > > heir > > contribution, and decide on that basis. These days, when > > football is king, > > what does that say about our values? That we are all > > specialists and we are > > all easily replaced. In fact, in a football model, the ideal is > > to churn and > > burn. > >While the game of baseball itself may in the past have neatly symbolized >American individualism, ironically you wouldn't know it from the salaries >paid to baseball players in those supposedly gloried old days. Before the >days of free agency, players were paid far far less than they would have >been paid in an open and free market. You'd think that if anybody would >have understood the importance of providing proper compensation for >individual performance in line with the spirit of the game of baseball, it >would have been the baseball team owners themselves. > >But I digress... _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71429&t=71399 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
