Best study materials to use [7:16946]
For the CCNP/DP. I have been hearing that the Cisco Press is the best source. Please any input would be greatly appreciated. Also I would like to know a few folks opinion on the CCDP/CCNP which one seems to be more valuable? Thanks, GG Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=16946t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=16953t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Cisco Press is just another publisher and in my opinion indicates no more or less valuable text than any other publisher. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/23/2001 at 6:10 AM Munzir Khan wrote: Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=16962t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
I'd use the Cisco press for CCNP, they are most helpful for get the cert. I purchased an Osborne study guide and it was absolute rubbish, the volume of material was twice that in the Cisco press book and the format of the book changes throughout and the test engine was pathetic, I junked it and borrow the Cisco one for the exam. cheers Pat Brown G.G. wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... For the CCNP/DP. I have been hearing that the Cisco Press is the best source. Please any input would be greatly appreciated. Also I would like to know a few folks opinion on the CCDP/CCNP which one seems to be more valuable? Thanks, GG Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=16964t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Actually CCDP is not an addition to the CCNP it is a stand alone cert. - Original Message - From: Munzir Khan To: Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=16968t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
It has been my experience that it depends entirely on the skills and background of the author. Like it or not, the people involved on these lists are typically seeking Cisco certification. They are primarily interested in Cisco-centric solutions which at times seem to be one or more offs from the more generic RFC-based approaches to issues. Aside from that, it seems some people may be subject matter experts and still lack the ability to be authors and to convey topics in a way that are condusive to learning. It seems that there are times when a generically correct answer does not do much to shed light from the perspective of the student. There are also instances where the writing realted to a vendors solution does little to enlighten in terms of a broader understanding of the underlying principle. Thank God there are people writing that have these skills in aggregate. - Original Message - From: Peter Van Oene To: Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] Cisco Press is just another publisher and in my opinion indicates no more or less valuable text than any other publisher. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/23/2001 at 6:10 AM Munzir Khan wrote: Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=16969t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Unfortunately Peter, having just written the Routing 2.0 and Switching 2.0 exams, I'd have to disagree. To pass the exams, Cisco Press is the best source you can get if that's your only goal. The old CCNP 1.0 exam series took a lot of heat for being ambiguous, poorly worded, difficult to understand. Likely they were written by people with technical knowledge that didn't have any experience writing. The new CCNP 2.0 exam series is straight forward, very little ambiguity, and the questions seem to be word-for-word straight from the course material. I think Cisco likely went in the opposite direction and hired people that knew nothing about networking but could write. With a miniscule of knowledge about multicasting, I read over one chapter the night before, skipped the second on how to configure multicasting, and scored 100%. My third highest section score was multi-layer switching, which I read over the morning of the exam. Cisco--are you listening? I'm extremely disappointed in the quality of the questions on the exam. I'm tinkering around with a Cat 5 and a 2924XL right now. It's been a year and a half since I last touched a Cat 5 (I was quite proficient back then) but I'm constantly accessing the help facility to get the correct format of the command on the Cat 5 and as for the 2924XL? That's just plain ugly. I'm used to the 1900 series IOS commands. Trunk on. Set trunk on. Who the heck would think that a trunk command would be prefaced with switchport? That's the last place I looked on the 2924XL. It's now ungodly easy to become a paper CCNP - because I passed the exam and yet I'm as awkward as can be navigating the switch. Yes I know the concepts and theory... but it will take me a bit of time to get up to speed finding my way around--and I'll be there in about two and a half weeks. THAT's when I should be able to pass the exam--and not before. With the relative ease of questions, with the fact that you don't have to apply the knowledge to pass (just regurgitate), the CCNP certification won't be highly regarded in the industry and it shouldn't be. One thing I might mention--is that I'm disappointed in the exams--not the Cisco Press material. Cisco Press's books are a great resource for finding out how to do things. If the only goal is to pass the exam, Cisco Press is the way to go. And that's truly disappointing. What we do at CertificationZone.com... what I do at Sybex... that's such a completely different philosophy. The focus there is on learning--having the skills and knowledge to pass the exam. You've got to think because you're not spoon fed. CertificationZone as a preparation source is just awesome (but then again, I'm biased aren't I?) If you're the type of person that wants to use the tests to determine how well they've developed a skill set... CertificationZone and other 3rd party publishers that publish quality material are the best source of study material because you won't pass based on straight regurgitation. Moreover, if you pass your CCNP exams based on 3rd party sources, in my opinion you're more likely prepared on the job at at the lab if you're going for your CCIE. It's funny that Cisco spends so much time worrying about the NDA when really you can find the questions to the exam almost word-for-word in a Cisco Press book. Cisco... why not try hiring technical people that can write? Why not try hiring people that can develop questions that require knowledge to be applied to scenerios? Cisco--are you listening? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Van Oene Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 6:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] Cisco Press is just another publisher and in my opinion indicates no more or less valuable text than any other publisher. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/23/2001 at 6:10 AM Munzir Khan wrote: Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=17010t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Cisco gives soft copy of their courses to Cisco Press editors. They don't do that with any other publisher. Cisco Press editors are also allowed to use other copyrighted Cisco materials, white papers, design guides, configuration manuals, etc. Other publishers can use these as references but they can't legally copy and paste large chunks of them. If there's an editor rather than an author on a Cisco Press book, then the material came from Cisco. Those books are generally well-targeted to the test. Priscilla. At 08:39 AM 8/23/01, Peter Van Oene wrote: Cisco Press is just another publisher and in my opinion indicates no more or less valuable text than any other publisher. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/23/2001 at 6:10 AM Munzir Khan wrote: Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=17018t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
] Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] Cisco Press is just another publisher and in my opinion indicates no more or less valuable text than any other publisher. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/23/2001 at 6:10 AM Munzir Khan wrote: Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an addition to CCNP where you see more about desgining networks and you have to give two additional exams CCDA CID to obtain CCDP cert. Cheers. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=17022t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Thanks for all of the posts, but let me rephrase the question. I was wondering between the two certifications CCNP/CCDP. Let's say that there are 2 individuals one with the CCDP and one with the CCNP and they both have about 2 years of experience on an average which one makes more on a rough estimate or from any personal experiences that any of you may have? I know that the certs don't get you any money or jobs anymore but they do help when it is time to interview for a position and you also have experience Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=17036t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
Design is likely slightly more valued, which to pursue is dependent on whether you are seeking a postion to admin/maintain(ccnp), or a position to design(ccdp). Brian Sonic Whalen Success = Preparation + Opportunity On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Brown G.G. wrote: Thanks for all of the posts, but let me rephrase the question. I was wondering between the two certifications CCNP/CCDP. Let's say that there are 2 individuals one with the CCDP and one with the CCNP and they both have about 2 years of experience on an average which one makes more on a rough estimate or from any personal experiences that any of you may have? I know that the certs don't get you any money or jobs anymore but they do help when it is time to interview for a position and you also have experience Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=17037t=16946 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
I agree that sometimes navigating through a Cisco device can be difficult. But it is still ten times better than most of the competition. I have spent a lot of time lately working with Extreme and Nortel equipment. Their CLI is so awkward that it makes the work twice as hard. Now I know that there will be some of you out there who have spent lots of time on these boxes and will say that they are easier than Cisco, but I think even with all of its little drawbacks, IOS still beats most other operating systems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Priscilla Oppenheimer Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] No, Cisco is not listening. ;-) Serisouly, they don't follow Group Study (not officially any way.) The Cisco course developers wrote the material in the Cisco Press course books. Many of them have an engineering background but prefer to develop courses and write. I was one, for example. ;-) The idea of using course developers and writers that aren't subject matter experts doesn't work, although many companies have tried it. The results are awful. Having engineers write doesn't work either in some cases. But there are people who can do both and that's generally who Cisco hires in the training department. (with some exceptions) Regarding the tests, I'm not sure, but I don't think they are written by subject matter experts. They are written by testing experts that go through the material written by the course developers and pick out phrases to turn into questions. Regarding configuring Cisco switches. I agree. It's way harder than it needs to be. There are some things that just make me laugh out loud they are so ugly for no reason. I have a theory about this. I think the commands are planned by junior software engineers. But that theory may be as wrong as your theory about Cisco course developers. Priscilla At 01:29 PM 8/23/01, Leigh Anne Chisholm wrote: Unfortunately Peter, having just written the Routing 2.0 and Switching 2.0 exams, I'd have to disagree. To pass the exams, Cisco Press is the best source you can get if that's your only goal. The old CCNP 1.0 exam series took a lot of heat for being ambiguous, poorly worded, difficult to understand. Likely they were written by people with technical knowledge that didn't have any experience writing. The new CCNP 2.0 exam series is straight forward, very little ambiguity, and the questions seem to be word-for-word straight from the course material. I think Cisco likely went in the opposite direction and hired people that knew nothing about networking but could write. With a miniscule of knowledge about multicasting, I read over one chapter the night before, skipped the second on how to configure multicasting, and scored 100%. My third highest section score was multi-layer switching, which I read over the morning of the exam. Cisco--are you listening? I'm extremely disappointed in the quality of the questions on the exam. I'm tinkering around with a Cat 5 and a 2924XL right now. It's been a year and a half since I last touched a Cat 5 (I was quite proficient back then) but I'm constantly accessing the help facility to get the correct format of the command on the Cat 5 and as for the 2924XL? That's just plain ugly. I'm used to the 1900 series IOS commands. Trunk on. Set trunk on. Who the heck would think that a trunk command would be prefaced with switchport? That's the last place I looked on the 2924XL. It's now ungodly easy to become a paper CCNP - because I passed the exam and yet I'm as awkward as can be navigating the switch. Yes I know the concepts and theory... but it will take me a bit of time to get up to speed finding my way around--and I'll be there in about two and a half weeks. THAT's when I should be able to pass the exam--and not before. With the relative ease of questions, with the fact that you don't have to apply the knowledge to pass (just regurgitate), the CCNP certification won't be highly regarded in the industry and it shouldn't be. One thing I might mention--is that I'm disappointed in the exams--not the Cisco Press material. Cisco Press's books are a great resource for finding out how to do things. If the only goal is to pass the exam, Cisco Press is the way to go. And that's truly disappointing. What we do at CertificationZone.com... what I do at Sybex... that's such a completely different philosophy. The focus there is on learning--having the skills and knowledge to pass the exam. You've got to think because you're not spoon fed. CertificationZone as a preparation source is just awesome (but then again, I'm biased aren't I?) If you're the type of person that wants to use the tests to determine how well they've developed a skill set... CertificationZone and other 3rd party publishers that publish quality material are the best source of study material because you won't pass
RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
I work for a company that has both Cisco and Enterasys (Cabletron) equipment. Cisco's CLI seems more logical to me than other CLI's, especially moving between different interfaces. I try to push Cisco equipment but I guess my boss has a wood for Enterasys equipment. -Original Message- From: Jim Newton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] I agree that sometimes navigating through a Cisco device can be difficult. But it is still ten times better than most of the competition. I have spent a lot of time lately working with Extreme and Nortel equipment. Their CLI is so awkward that it makes the work twice as hard. Now I know that there will be some of you out there who have spent lots of time on these boxes and will say that they are easier than Cisco, but I think even with all of its little drawbacks, IOS still beats most other operating systems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Priscilla Oppenheimer Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] No, Cisco is not listening. ;-) Serisouly, they don't follow Group Study (not officially any way.) The Cisco course developers wrote the material in the Cisco Press course books. Many of them have an engineering background but prefer to develop courses and write. I was one, for example. ;-) The idea of using course developers and writers that aren't subject matter experts doesn't work, although many companies have tried it. The results are awful. Having engineers write doesn't work either in some cases. But there are people who can do both and that's generally who Cisco hires in the training department. (with some exceptions) Regarding the tests, I'm not sure, but I don't think they are written by subject matter experts. They are written by testing experts that go through the material written by the course developers and pick out phrases to turn into questions. Regarding configuring Cisco switches. I agree. It's way harder than it needs to be. There are some things that just make me laugh out loud they are so ugly for no reason. I have a theory about this. I think the commands are planned by junior software engineers. But that theory may be as wrong as your theory about Cisco course developers. Priscilla At 01:29 PM 8/23/01, Leigh Anne Chisholm wrote: Unfortunately Peter, having just written the Routing 2.0 and Switching 2.0 exams, I'd have to disagree. To pass the exams, Cisco Press is the best source you can get if that's your only goal. The old CCNP 1.0 exam series took a lot of heat for being ambiguous, poorly worded, difficult to understand. Likely they were written by people with technical knowledge that didn't have any experience writing. The new CCNP 2.0 exam series is straight forward, very little ambiguity, and the questions seem to be word-for-word straight from the course material. I think Cisco likely went in the opposite direction and hired people that knew nothing about networking but could write. With a miniscule of knowledge about multicasting, I read over one chapter the night before, skipped the second on how to configure multicasting, and scored 100%. My third highest section score was multi-layer switching, which I read over the morning of the exam. Cisco--are you listening? I'm extremely disappointed in the quality of the questions on the exam. I'm tinkering around with a Cat 5 and a 2924XL right now. It's been a year and a half since I last touched a Cat 5 (I was quite proficient back then) but I'm constantly accessing the help facility to get the correct format of the command on the Cat 5 and as for the 2924XL? That's just plain ugly. I'm used to the 1900 series IOS commands. Trunk on. Set trunk on. Who the heck would think
Re: Best study materials to use [7:16946]
I agree with you're opinion of the exams. Would it really be so hard for them to at least simulate the non-theory questions about configurations? There should be at least 10 questions that ask you to configure something and then give you a command prompt. It don't believe it would be that hard to design a limited command IOS simulator. I would rather they raise the price of the exam to $200 each if they need to implement this to raise the standards of the exam and also make it more pertinent to the whole purpose of the ceritfication. How could you certify someone as a professoinal if you're not testing them properly? Leigh Anne Chisholm wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Unfortunately Peter, having just written the Routing 2.0 and Switching 2.0 exams, I'd have to disagree. To pass the exams, Cisco Press is the best source you can get if that's your only goal. The old CCNP 1.0 exam series took a lot of heat for being ambiguous, poorly worded, difficult to understand. Likely they were written by people with technical knowledge that didn't have any experience writing. The new CCNP 2.0 exam series is straight forward, very little ambiguity, and the questions seem to be word-for-word straight from the course material. I think Cisco likely went in the opposite direction and hired people that knew nothing about networking but could write. With a miniscule of knowledge about multicasting, I read over one chapter the night before, skipped the second on how to configure multicasting, and scored 100%. My third highest section score was multi-layer switching, which I read over the morning of the exam. Cisco--are you listening? I'm extremely disappointed in the quality of the questions on the exam. I'm tinkering around with a Cat 5 and a 2924XL right now. It's been a year and a half since I last touched a Cat 5 (I was quite proficient back then) but I'm constantly accessing the help facility to get the correct format of the command on the Cat 5 and as for the 2924XL? That's just plain ugly. I'm used to the 1900 series IOS commands. Trunk on. Set trunk on. Who the heck would think that a trunk command would be prefaced with switchport? That's the last place I looked on the 2924XL. It's now ungodly easy to become a paper CCNP - because I passed the exam and yet I'm as awkward as can be navigating the switch. Yes I know the concepts and theory... but it will take me a bit of time to get up to speed finding my way around--and I'll be there in about two and a half weeks. THAT's when I should be able to pass the exam--and not before. With the relative ease of questions, with the fact that you don't have to apply the knowledge to pass (just regurgitate), the CCNP certification won't be highly regarded in the industry and it shouldn't be. One thing I might mention--is that I'm disappointed in the exams--not the Cisco Press material. Cisco Press's books are a great resource for finding out how to do things. If the only goal is to pass the exam, Cisco Press is the way to go. And that's truly disappointing. What we do at CertificationZone.com... what I do at Sybex... that's such a completely different philosophy. The focus there is on learning--having the skills and knowledge to pass the exam. You've got to think because you're not spoon fed. CertificationZone as a preparation source is just awesome (but then again, I'm biased aren't I?) If you're the type of person that wants to use the tests to determine how well they've developed a skill set... CertificationZone and other 3rd party publishers that publish quality material are the best source of study material because you won't pass based on straight regurgitation. Moreover, if you pass your CCNP exams based on 3rd party sources, in my opinion you're more likely prepared on the job at at the lab if you're going for your CCIE. It's funny that Cisco spends so much time worrying about the NDA when really you can find the questions to the exam almost word-for-word in a Cisco Press book. Cisco... why not try hiring technical people that can write? Why not try hiring people that can develop questions that require knowledge to be applied to scenerios? Cisco--are you listening? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Van Oene Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 6:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Best study materials to use [7:16946] Cisco Press is just another publisher and in my opinion indicates no more or less valuable text than any other publisher. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/23/2001 at 6:10 AM Munzir Khan wrote: Cisco Press is always the best bacause it is more specific what you see in the real exams although some people read other books along with cisco press which are more users friendly and easy to pickup like sybex, examcram etc. CCDP is just an
