Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA
Sammi, I also have done extensive study of the CISCO IOS and I am studyng for = the lab as we speak. I work in an environment where not only do I troubleshoot CISCO( about = 90%) but the rest is split up mostly by Bay and then a small amount of Motorola FRADS. = Anyway, BAY at first was a shock to the system since there IOS is a cross between DOS and MIB = city. I have gotten comfortable with MIBs on BAY now, specially doing stat caps, but I have = also learned to use=20 site manager which is a good tool for Bays. In the process, I went ahead = and got the low level cert for=20 Bays(Certified Support Specialist). Basically, I first saw this as a = curse because I had no interest in anything but CISCO IOS, but in reality there are many large companies in perticular one = automotive company that use all BAY. This experience has gotten me into an environment of = further learning and of experimentation. Especially debugging OSPF problems between CISCO = routers and BAY. BAY products are good, but on CLI are not perticularly friendly = unless you are=20 willing to spend time on it. Once you get to learning the CLI is is = powerful. BAY has some very good solutions out there. Do not abandon CISCO but also stive to increase your knowledge of NORTEL. Anyway, NORTEL does = not have all its eggs in routers. CISCO IOS is in my humble opinion = superior. But NORTEL has nice stuff cooking up. The person I replaced went to NORTEL and he = was=20 CISCO savvy ...has passed the written and had extensive troubleshooting skill being a member of the ATS group here where I work. But he got an offer he could not refuse...off he went. I believe NORTEL right now is = doing alot of this and looking for CISCO folks who are good because they can figure they = can retrain. I have no interest myself in NORTEL at this time but after my CCIE is = done I dont rule it out. Its an excellent company to work for and an industry = leader. I am personally holding out for CISCOhahah will see. Anyway, good = luck. I know the guy I replaced, who works for NORTEL, is very happy there and = he is getting much training...take advantage of it. Sincerely, Raul _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA
to the extent that it counts, i'd have to vote that mastering implementations of similar technologies by different vendors and opportunities to explore interoperability rarely hurt one's opportunities to begin grasping the miracle by which bit patterns emanating from one digital computing device magically appear inbound on a remote digital computing device. as the most recent post pointed out, it's even easier to identify the aspects of a routing protocol's behavior that are necessary for standards conformance and distinguish them from vendor specific quirks. another example would refer to the differences in both vendor's approach to incrementing the metric between hops. it used to be the case that bay was perceived as having a significant hardware performance edge. it seems as if cisco has made steps towards bridging that gap. it used to be the case that cisco was perceived as having a significant software usability edge. it seems as if cisco has made steps towards bridging that gap. in defense of the TI interface, although many cisco counterparts yield better information, anyone not afraid of unixesque scripting may write implement their own commands on the RS platform. additionally, bay CLI access provides snmp get set commands. i can say from experience that preparing for certification by each vendor has led me to grapple with material to an extent not necessary to pass the other vendor's tests. a frustrating part of pursuing the nncse is that the quality of questions range from thought-provoking and worth the effort to "give me my $1.28 back" in terms of real-life benefit and the alleged honor and glory of industry-specific letters by your name, the more vendors the better. acapitally yours, "Raul F. Fernandez" [EMAIL PROTECTED]@groupstudy.com on 12/26/2000 12:05:18 PM Please respond to "Raul F. Fernandez" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Kevin Cullimore) Subject: Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA Sammi, I also have done extensive study of the CISCO IOS and I am studyng for = the lab as we speak. I work in an environment where not only do I troubleshoot CISCO( about = 90%) but the rest is split up mostly by Bay and then a small amount of Motorola FRADS. = Anyway, BAY at first was a shock to the system since there IOS is a cross between DOS and MIB = city. I have gotten comfortable with MIBs on BAY now, specially doing stat caps, but I have = also learned to use=20 site manager which is a good tool for Bays. In the process, I went ahead = and got the low level cert for=20 Bays(Certified Support Specialist). Basically, I first saw this as a = curse because I had no interest in anything but CISCO IOS, but in reality there are many large companies in perticular one = automotive company that use all BAY. This experience has gotten me into an environment of = further learning and of experimentation. Especially debugging OSPF problems between CISCO = routers and BAY. BAY products are good, but on CLI are not perticularly friendly = unless you are=20 willing to spend time on it. Once you get to learning the CLI is is = powerful. BAY has some very good solutions out there. Do not abandon CISCO but also stive to increase your knowledge of NORTEL. Anyway, NORTEL does = not have all its eggs in routers. CISCO IOS is in my humble opinion = superior. But NORTEL has nice stuff cooking up. The person I replaced went to NORTEL and he = was=20 CISCO savvy ...has passed the written and had extensive troubleshooting skill being a member of the ATS group here where I work. But he got an offer he could not refuse...off he went. I believe NORTEL right now is = doing alot of this and looking for CISCO folks who are good because they can figure they = can retrain. I have no interest myself in NORTEL at this time but after my CCIE is = done I dont rule it out. Its an excellent company to work for and an industry = leader. I am personally holding out for CISCOhahah will see. Anyway, good = luck. I know the guy I replaced, who works for NORTEL, is very happy there and = he is getting much training...take advantage of it. Sincerely, Raul _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-+ | This message may contain confidential and/or privileged | | information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to | | receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, | | disclose or take any action based on this message or any| | information herein. If you have received this message in | | error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail | | and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. | +-+ _
Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA
Keep in mind that Nortel actually has *two* CLIs on their routers: the TI (the traditional CLI) and now the BCC (Bay Command Console, or Blatant Cisco Copy if you prefer, although it's quite a misnomer). The BCC was developed for two reasons: one, to make Cisco people more comfy with Bay routers; and two, because their GUI, Site Manager (or Site Mangler, which is *not* a misnomer) stinks. As far as I'm concerned, the BCC is a few steps ahead of Cisco's CLI. It's much more user-friendly, and offers a more logical view of the elements of the router's configuration. It's only available with BayRS 12.00 and above, but if you're ever in a Bay environment, check it out (type "bcc" at the TI prompt). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA snip in defense of the TI interface, although many cisco counterparts yield better information, anyone not afraid of unixesque scripting may write implement their own commands on the RS platform. additionally, bay CLI access provides snmp get set commands. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA
thanks for the insight. unfortunately, i'm in an environment where all kinds of anguish, fear. uncertainty and doubt (not to mention resistance, fits and threats) were raised when Y2K bullies "forced" an upgrade to RS 11.03/9 last year, so i'm pretty far from offering a perspective on bcc. i'm glad that vendors are attempting to stay competitive, even if not economically. i've heard people claim that one advantage of mastering the IOS cli is that it makes it easier to work with equipment from smaller vendors since many of them are either outright copying a cisco cli look and feel or hoping to get bought by them. do others on the list agree? "Bradley J. Wilson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]@groupstudy.com on 12/26/2000 03:02:06 PM Please respond to "Bradley J. Wilson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "cisco" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Kevin Cullimore) Subject: Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA Keep in mind that Nortel actually has *two* CLIs on their routers: the TI (the traditional CLI) and now the BCC (Bay Command Console, or Blatant Cisco Copy if you prefer, although it's quite a misnomer). The BCC was developed for two reasons: one, to make Cisco people more comfy with Bay routers; and two, because their GUI, Site Manager (or Site Mangler, which is *not* a misnomer) stinks. As far as I'm concerned, the BCC is a few steps ahead of Cisco's CLI. It's much more user-friendly, and offers a more logical view of the elements of the router's configuration. It's only available with BayRS 12.00 and above, but if you're ever in a Bay environment, check it out (type "bcc" at the TI prompt). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA snip in defense of the TI interface, although many cisco counterparts yield better information, anyone not afraid of unixesque scripting may write implement their own commands on the RS platform. additionally, bay CLI access provides snmp get set commands. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-+ | This message may contain confidential and/or privileged | | information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to | | receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, | | disclose or take any action based on this message or any| | information herein. If you have received this message in | | error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail | | and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. | +-+ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
User Interfaces (was): Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA
There's an unfortunate tendency for the industry, as a whole, to demand Cisco CLI compatibility when it doesn't even make sense: what does compatibility to show cache mean when the platform doesn't use a cache? I hate menu-based interfaces, especially "GUI's" that are text menu interfaces masquerading as graphic models. I freely admit Site Mangler is a not-wonderful example here. Interfaces that have an underlying object model can be either textual or graphic. There are places for both, and there is need for research in many aspects. One thing that the human factors people are discovering is there are several distinct requirements for user interfaces. High-level interfaces for service provisioning (i.e., across multiple devices) make a good deal of sense. The ITU TMN and IETF POLICY initiatives have this notion of service definition as distinct from individual element (e.g., router) management. Another need is for network policy interfaces, which will be expert friendly rather than "user" friendly. These will add productivity for thoroughly clueful people doing such things as BGP peering, directory-based networking, etc. Classical CLI's are useful in element provisioning and troubleshooting. If they are fairly line-at-a-time oriented, such as IOS, they may be harder to script than more structured languages such as JunOS or the GateD configuration language. The Bay Technician Interface is really more of a scripting language than a direct user interface, but it does have the advantage of operating on the underlying object model in the MIBs. With the caveat that my orientation is to carriers, there is a significant qualitative difference in the kind of interfaces (plural) needed to manage thousands of enterprise connections and a relatively few desktops. "Bradley J. Wilson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, Keep in mind that Nortel actually has *two* CLIs on their routers: the TI (the traditional CLI) and now the BCC (Bay Command Console, or Blatant Cisco Copy if you prefer, although it's quite a misnomer). The BCC was developed for two reasons: one, to make Cisco people more comfy with Bay routers; and two, because their GUI, Site Manager (or Site Mangler, which is *not* a misnomer) stinks. As far as I'm concerned, the BCC is a few steps ahead of Cisco's CLI. It's much more user-friendly, and offers a more logical view of the elements of the router's configuration. It's only available with BayRS 12.00 and above, but if you're ever in a Bay environment, check it out (type "bcc" at the TI prompt). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Or Nortel? Re: Easy ML? Re:MCSE OR CCNA snip in defense of the TI interface, although many cisco counterparts yield better information, anyone not afraid of unixesque scripting may write implement their own commands on the RS platform. additionally, bay CLI access provides snmp get set commands. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
