Re: Need your opinion
>From: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Need your opinion >Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:28:47 -0800 (PST) > >Hi all, > >Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite paper) >CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP real >world experience. I have limited experience in frame >relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related >courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE preparation >training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take one >week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, what >do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? You'll probably fly the written part, then get shot down in flames during the lab. The CCIE is about real-life experience, and you can't do the lab without it. >Thank's for any input. Anytime Rob./ > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! >http://photos.yahoo.com/ > >_ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Need your opinion
I have to slightly disagree. CCIE is a test, pure and simple. It actually doesn't relate much at all to real world experience. When would you rush like a maniac to build a superfluously complex network in 12 hours with only limited guidelines and then have it maliciously tampered with while you eat lunch only to come back and fix it in 4 hours? CCIE is all about knowing the intricacies of protocols and Cisco's implementation of them and being able to efficiently configure and troubleshoot them under immense pressure (mostly from not wanting to come back and do it again). What Henry is missing is pure hands on router time. You simply have to practise your configuration routine for the basics over and over until you do it in your sleep. (this is true actually, you'll know your ready when you dream about IOS and have nightmares about routes missing from your table when everything looks right in the config) Rack time at ccbootcamp or similar might fill in the blanks here. Pete *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 1/10/2001 at 11:53 AM Robert Nelson-Cox wrote: >>From: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Need your opinion >>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:28:47 -0800 (PST) >> >>Hi all, >> >>Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite paper) >>CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP real >>world experience. I have limited experience in frame >>relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related >>courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE preparation >>training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take one >>week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, what >>do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? > >You'll probably fly the written part, then get shot down in flames during >the lab. > >The CCIE is about real-life experience, and you can't do the lab without it. > >>Thank's for any input. > >Anytime > >Rob./ > >> >> >>__ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! >>http://photos.yahoo.com/ >> >>_ >>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: >>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >>Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >_ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >_ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Need your opinion
There was a regular contributor to this list (may still be lurking) who went from a PBX tech to CCIE in about a year. I believe that he attended the four CCNP courses. Scored a 96 on the lab. Chad; Do you want to provide any details? > -Original Message- > From: Henry D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 5:29 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Need your opinion > > > Hi all, > > Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite paper) > CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP real > world experience. I have limited experience in frame > relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related > courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE preparation > training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take one > week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, what > do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? > > Thank's for any input. > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct > and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Need your opinion
Being at the point in my studies where pure terror is setting in, I would say that one very important component of preparation is the actual configuration and troubleshooting on real routers, configuring "real" scenarios. The books aren't helpful here. The thought process is very important. Seeing the results of operations via the show and debug commands, and understanding what those outputs are saying, is every bit as critical as understanding how to configure OSPF over a frame relay multipoint interface. Understanding the implications of your choices is every bit as important as getting a network to router packets so you can ping interfaces. I find the biggest problem I am facing is the changing of the mindset. In my job, I design networks for customers. It is straightforward and practical work. I would never create a design like some of the things I am seeing in the practice labs. This is the mindset that I think must be changed. Like a chess master, a CCIE must always be thinking 10 moves ahead. This kind of mindset comes only from extensive hands on. I agree that it is not necessarily OTJ that creates the mindset. I agree that extensive practice with scenarios from fatkid or ccbootcamp of Mentor Vlabs can provide that training. Check out www.chuck.to/CCIEAdvice.htm for good preparation advice from successful CCIE's , including that of the author below, whose advice I have always found worth considering. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Peter Van Oene Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Need your opinion I have to slightly disagree. CCIE is a test, pure and simple. It actually doesn't relate much at all to real world experience. When would you rush like a maniac to build a superfluously complex network in 12 hours with only limited guidelines and then have it maliciously tampered with while you eat lunch only to come back and fix it in 4 hours? CCIE is all about knowing the intricacies of protocols and Cisco's implementation of them and being able to efficiently configure and troubleshoot them under immense pressure (mostly from not wanting to come back and do it again). What Henry is missing is pure hands on router time. You simply have to practise your configuration routine for the basics over and over until you do it in your sleep. (this is true actually, you'll know your ready when you dream about IOS and have nightmares about routes missing from your table when everything looks right in the config) Rack time at ccbootcamp or similar might fill in the blanks here. Pete *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 1/10/2001 at 11:53 AM Robert Nelson-Cox wrote: >>From: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Need your opinion >>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:28:47 -0800 (PST) >> >>Hi all, >> >>Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite paper) >>CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP real >>world experience. I have limited experience in frame >>relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related >>courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE preparation >>training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take one >>week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, what >>do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? > >You'll probably fly the written part, then get shot down in flames during >the lab. > >The CCIE is about real-life experience, and you can't do the lab without it. > >>Thank's for any input. > >Anytime > >Rob./ > >> >> >>__ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! >>http://photos.yahoo.com/ >> >>_ >>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: >>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >>Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >_ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >_ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Need your opinion
I know of one CCIE who did it in with only two years experience and and about 6 months of study after obtaining the CCNP/CCDP -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel Cotts Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:41 AM To: 'Henry D'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Need your opinion There was a regular contributor to this list (may still be lurking) who went from a PBX tech to CCIE in about a year. I believe that he attended the four CCNP courses. Scored a 96 on the lab. Chad; Do you want to provide any details? > -Original Message- > From: Henry D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 5:29 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Need your opinion > > > Hi all, > > Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite paper) > CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP real > world experience. I have limited experience in frame > relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related > courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE preparation > training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take one > week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, what > do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? > > Thank's for any input. > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct > and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Need your opinion
Have to agree with both posts here. The method that you outline to achieve CCIE status i.e taking all the courses etc, I think you would achieve CCIE status, however, you would still be missing real world experience. This could be termed a 'paper' CCIE although you would obviously be very valuable to the industry. I know that some Support Companies put their staff through training for CCIE in as little as 6 months, however, personally that badge is not for me. I think it comes down to the industries expectations of CCIE status versus your own. HTH, Regards, Phil. --- Chuck Larrieu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Being at the point in my studies where pure terror > is setting in, I would > say that one very important component of preparation > is the actual > configuration and troubleshooting on real routers, > configuring "real" > scenarios. The books aren't helpful here. The > thought process is very > important. Seeing the results of operations via the > show and debug commands, > and understanding what those outputs are saying, is > every bit as critical as > understanding how to configure OSPF over a frame > relay multipoint interface. > Understanding the implications of your choices is > every bit as important as > getting a network to router packets so you can ping > interfaces. > > I find the biggest problem I am facing is the > changing of the mindset. In my > job, I design networks for customers. It is > straightforward and practical > work. I would never create a design like some of > the things I am seeing in > the practice labs. This is the mindset that I think > must be changed. Like a > chess master, a CCIE must always be thinking 10 > moves ahead. This kind of > mindset comes only from extensive hands on. I agree > that it is not > necessarily OTJ that creates the mindset. I agree > that extensive practice > with scenarios from fatkid or ccbootcamp of Mentor > Vlabs can provide that > training. > > Check out www.chuck.to/CCIEAdvice.htm for good > preparation advice from > successful CCIE's , including that of the author > below, whose advice I have > always found worth considering. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > Peter Van Oene > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:45 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Need your opinion > > I have to slightly disagree. CCIE is a test, pure > and simple. It actually > doesn't relate much at all to real world experience. > When would you rush > like a maniac to build a superfluously complex > network in 12 hours with only > limited guidelines and then have it maliciously > tampered with while you eat > lunch only to come back and fix it in 4 hours? CCIE > is all about knowing > the intricacies of protocols and Cisco's > implementation of them and being > able to efficiently configure and troubleshoot them > under immense pressure > (mostly from not wanting to come back and do it > again). > > What Henry is missing is pure hands on router time. > You simply have to > practise your configuration routine for the basics > over and over until you > do it in your sleep. (this is true actually, > you'll know your ready when > you dream about IOS and have nightmares about routes > missing from your table > when everything looks right in the config) Rack > time at ccbootcamp or > similar might fill in the blanks here. > > Pete > > > *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** > > On 1/10/2001 at 11:53 AM Robert Nelson-Cox wrote: > > >>From: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Reply-To: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Subject: Need your opinion > >>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:28:47 -0800 (PST) > >> > >>Hi all, > >> > >>Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite > paper) > >>CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP > real > >>world experience. I have limited experience in > frame > >>relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related > >>courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE > preparation > >>training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take > one > >>week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, > what > >>do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? > > > >You'll probably fly the written part, then get shot > down in flames during > >the lab. > > > >The CCIE is about real-life experience, and you > can't do the lab without > it. > > > >>Thank's for any input
RE: Need your opinion
I beg to differThere is no such thing as a paper CCIE, not with the hands-on lab to back up the written. The lab in and of itself separates the Book Smart from the Packet Jockeys. Cheers, Lance >From: Phil Barker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Phil Barker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Chuck Larrieu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: Need your opinion >Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:45:50 + (GMT) > >Have to agree with both posts here. The method that >you outline to achieve CCIE status i.e taking all the >courses etc, I think you would achieve CCIE status, >however, you would still be missing real world >experience. >This could be termed a 'paper' CCIE although you would >obviously be very valuable to the industry. > >I know that some Support Companies put their staff >through training for CCIE in as little as 6 months, >however, personally that badge is not for me. > >I think it comes down to the industries expectations >of CCIE status versus your own. > > >HTH, > >Regards, > >Phil. > >--- Chuck Larrieu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Being >at the point in my studies where pure terror > > is setting in, I would > > say that one very important component of preparation > > is the actual > > configuration and troubleshooting on real routers, > > configuring "real" > > scenarios. The books aren't helpful here. The > > thought process is very > > important. Seeing the results of operations via the > > show and debug commands, > > and understanding what those outputs are saying, is > > every bit as critical as > > understanding how to configure OSPF over a frame > > relay multipoint interface. > > Understanding the implications of your choices is > > every bit as important as > > getting a network to router packets so you can ping > > interfaces. > > > > I find the biggest problem I am facing is the > > changing of the mindset. In my > > job, I design networks for customers. It is > > straightforward and practical > > work. I would never create a design like some of > > the things I am seeing in > > the practice labs. This is the mindset that I think > > must be changed. Like a > > chess master, a CCIE must always be thinking 10 > > moves ahead. This kind of > > mindset comes only from extensive hands on. I agree > > that it is not > > necessarily OTJ that creates the mindset. I agree > > that extensive practice > > with scenarios from fatkid or ccbootcamp of Mentor > > Vlabs can provide that > > training. > > > > Check out www.chuck.to/CCIEAdvice.htm for good > > preparation advice from > > successful CCIE's , including that of the author > > below, whose advice I have > > always found worth considering. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > > Peter Van Oene > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:45 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject:Re: Need your opinion > > > > I have to slightly disagree. CCIE is a test, pure > > and simple. It actually > > doesn't relate much at all to real world experience. > > When would you rush > > like a maniac to build a superfluously complex > > network in 12 hours with only > > limited guidelines and then have it maliciously > > tampered with while you eat > > lunch only to come back and fix it in 4 hours? CCIE > > is all about knowing > > the intricacies of protocols and Cisco's > > implementation of them and being > > able to efficiently configure and troubleshoot them > > under immense pressure > > (mostly from not wanting to come back and do it > > again). > > > > What Henry is missing is pure hands on router time. > > You simply have to > > practise your configuration routine for the basics > > over and over until you > > do it in your sleep. (this is true actually, > > you'll know your ready when > > you dream about IOS and have nightmares about routes > > missing from your table > > when everything looks right in the config) Rack > > time at ccbootcamp or > > similar might fill in the blanks here. > > > > Pete > > > > > > *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** > > > > On 1/10/2001 at 11:53 AM Robert Nelson-Cox wrote: > > > > >>From: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>Reply-To: Henry D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
RE: Need your opinion
Hi, Be aware however a PBX Tech probably had a fair knowledge of the real guts behind routing, trunking, route filtering and transmission. I by trade am a Telecommunications Technician, I have a Universtiy qualification Associate Diploma in Applied Science (Computing), I have more electronic and computer papers than you can poke a stick at plus 35 Years experience in push various forms of data around different types of networks from Telegraph networks to Pinball Machines. Lots of PBX Techs have similar types of background. They often have a good background in the relevant areas. Believe me when I say to learn routing (Programming exchanges) by physically running piano wire and jumper wire through a frame to connect switch points together gives you a good idea of how the switching and routing works in a solid state router. Whilst I have only been working with true Internetworks for 15 years there is a better than average chance I would fail the CCIE not because I don't understand the technology but because there are pockets of it I never use on a day to day basis. This is true of all of us therrefore we need to learn more than the average guy to pass. My guess is that is where the "E" comes from in the CCIE. Teunis Hobart, Tasmania Australia On Wednesday, January 10, 2001 at 10:40:58 AM, Daniel Cotts wrote: > There was a regular contributor to this list (may still be lurking) who went > from a PBX tech to CCIE in about a year. I believe that he attended the four > CCNP courses. Scored a 96 on the lab. > Chad; Do you want to provide any details? > > > -Original Message- > > From: Henry D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 5:29 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Need your opinion > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Need your opinion here. Currently I'm (quite paper) > > CCNP. I don't have home lab nor any OSPF and BGP real > > world experience. I have limited experience in frame > > relay, RIP, EIGRP. Now if I take all CCIE related > > courses (OSPF & BGP workshop, ECP1, CCIE preparation > > training from horizon-mts, Cvoice, CATM, etc, take one > > week CCIE prep lab), and spare 3 times lab exams, what > > do you think of my chance to become CCIE ? > > > > Thank's for any input. > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > _ > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct > > and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- www.tasmail.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
