ClojureCLR in production ?
I am writing a server in Java/Clojure. It has a C# client. As the protocol between them becomes more complex (remote objects etc) I am looking at writing a client-side library to support comms with the server. It occurred to me that instead of writing this in C# I could perhaps reuse a lot of my Clojure code via ClojureCLR and top it off with rewriting relevant Java pieces either in C# or more Clojure. Given the Clojure-in-Clojure effort this seems the natural way to go to achieve portability over the two platforms. I was wondering whether anyone else had ClojureCLR in production and how they felt about it ? Whether it will be mature enough in say 3 months to support a production app ? Thanks for your time, Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
gen-class and state...
I only have a brief posting window this morning (I have to leave for work) so have not researched this as well as I should before coming to the list - so please forgive if this is a bit lame... Should I still be using gen-class to achieve link time compatibility with Java ? If so, why am I constrained to using a single field to hold my state (.state) ? (or have I missed something?). I am finding that all my gen-class-ed types need to define themselves, as well as a structure for their immutable parts and a structure for their mutable parts. Every method invocation involves at least two lookups one to fetch the immutable part from the .state field and one to lookup some useful piece of data in it. I'd like to reduce this to one lookup, directly into an immutable field in the POJO. Why doesn't gen-class allow e.g. :state [^Integer i ^String s ] in a more record like way ? and perhaps a flag to indicate that I want it to inherit the necessary fn-ality such that I can dereference fields in it in the same way as in a record ? It may be that I am using an out of date way of achieving my goals - I'd appreciate some guidance either way ? I am aware of e.g. defprotocol and reify but am under the impression that they are for dynamic typing creation and will not give me link-time compatibility with the Java code in my project ? thanks for your time, Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:43 AM, Jules jules.gosn...@gmail.com wrote: I only have a brief posting window this morning (I have to leave for work) so have not researched this as well as I should before coming to the list - so please forgive if this is a bit lame... Should I still be using gen-class to achieve link time compatibility with Java ? If so, why am I constrained to using a single field to hold my state (.state) ? (or have I missed something?). I am finding that all my gen-class-ed types need to define themselves, as well as a structure for their immutable parts and a structure for their mutable parts. Every method invocation involves at least two lookups one to fetch the immutable part from the .state field and one to lookup some useful piece of data in it. I'd like to reduce this to one lookup, directly into an immutable field in the POJO. If you're implementing an interface, you can use deftype to create objects with multiple mutable and immutable fields and with methods corresponding to that interface. And you can use definterface to make an interface. You don't even have to call the objects via the interface. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I'm not used to all this complexity just to do something simple. What I want to do is the normal programming that I do with every other environment and language I work with, i.e. I edit some source code on screen, save it in a file, and either compile/run, or interpret it or whatever. But I haven't figured out how to do that yet, and don't know if it's possible. I downloaded Netbeans and Enclojure. It runs fine. I can get a REPL, blah blah. But have no idea how to do anything real i.e. execute a program saved in a file. Again, I want to edit some code with the very nice editor, save it, and hit some button that says execute or perhaps compile and execute or perhaps build and execute or whatever. But apparently there is a heck of a lot more to it than that. I understand that you have to build a project or whatever. Fine - I did that. Still, I have no idea which directory out of that huge structure I'm supposed to put code in, I have no idea how to set up all these dependencies or whatever. I did try some random stuff, i.e. saving a file in various directories and hitting build but that didn't work. I also tried editing various files that were already there, hoping one of them was the main file I was supposed to be dumping source code into, but that didn't work either. So I downloaded Clojure Box. It installs and runs fine. Again, I get a REPL no problem. But there's only so much coding I can do in a REPL. Again, I'd like to do more. I spent a long time trying to find some help online (googling, etc), but everything I've found assumes I know too much, i.e. how to set up all these projects and dependencies. Actually, I'm not interested in fooling with all the boilerplate and crap AT ALL. So if I HAVE to do that, I'm outta here. But something tells me I may not have to, i.e. there may be some automated tool somewhere, or some template files I can just use over and over, or some trick to use like just name your program 'main' and stick it in such-and-such directory. Any help? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
I suggest skipping right to leiningen: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen Once you spend a few minutes creating a project template, you can then run a simple command to create a jar file and run it. Tim On Mar 23, 1:50 am, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I'm not used to all this complexity just to do something simple. What I want to do is the normal programming that I do with every other environment and language I work with, i.e. I edit some source code on screen, save it in a file, and either compile/run, or interpret it or whatever. But I haven't figured out how to do that yet, and don't know if it's possible. I downloaded Netbeans and Enclojure. It runs fine. I can get a REPL, blah blah. But have no idea how to do anything real i.e. execute a program saved in a file. Again, I want to edit some code with the very nice editor, save it, and hit some button that says execute or perhaps compile and execute or perhaps build and execute or whatever. But apparently there is a heck of a lot more to it than that. I understand that you have to build a project or whatever. Fine - I did that. Still, I have no idea which directory out of that huge structure I'm supposed to put code in, I have no idea how to set up all these dependencies or whatever. I did try some random stuff, i.e. saving a file in various directories and hitting build but that didn't work. I also tried editing various files that were already there, hoping one of them was the main file I was supposed to be dumping source code into, but that didn't work either. So I downloaded Clojure Box. It installs and runs fine. Again, I get a REPL no problem. But there's only so much coding I can do in a REPL. Again, I'd like to do more. I spent a long time trying to find some help online (googling, etc), but everything I've found assumes I know too much, i.e. how to set up all these projects and dependencies. Actually, I'm not interested in fooling with all the boilerplate and crap AT ALL. So if I HAVE to do that, I'm outta here. But something tells me I may not have to, i.e. there may be some automated tool somewhere, or some template files I can just use over and over, or some trick to use like just name your program 'main' and stick it in such-and-such directory. Any help? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Have a look at leiningen. Its a build tool that manages your project environment, allows you to compile your code to a jar etc. http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Getting_Started_with_Leiningen https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/TUTORIAL.md lein run -m org.you.main will be a convenient way to run the code in the org.you.main namespace. Cheers, David On 23 March 2011 09:50, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I'm not used to all this complexity just to do something simple. What I want to do is the normal programming that I do with every other environment and language I work with, i.e. I edit some source code on screen, save it in a file, and either compile/run, or interpret it or whatever. But I haven't figured out how to do that yet, and don't know if it's possible. I downloaded Netbeans and Enclojure. It runs fine. I can get a REPL, blah blah. But have no idea how to do anything real i.e. execute a program saved in a file. Again, I want to edit some code with the very nice editor, save it, and hit some button that says execute or perhaps compile and execute or perhaps build and execute or whatever. But apparently there is a heck of a lot more to it than that. I understand that you have to build a project or whatever. Fine - I did that. Still, I have no idea which directory out of that huge structure I'm supposed to put code in, I have no idea how to set up all these dependencies or whatever. I did try some random stuff, i.e. saving a file in various directories and hitting build but that didn't work. I also tried editing various files that were already there, hoping one of them was the main file I was supposed to be dumping source code into, but that didn't work either. So I downloaded Clojure Box. It installs and runs fine. Again, I get a REPL no problem. But there's only so much coding I can do in a REPL. Again, I'd like to do more. I spent a long time trying to find some help online (googling, etc), but everything I've found assumes I know too much, i.e. how to set up all these projects and dependencies. Actually, I'm not interested in fooling with all the boilerplate and crap AT ALL. So if I HAVE to do that, I'm outta here. But something tells me I may not have to, i.e. there may be some automated tool somewhere, or some template files I can just use over and over, or some trick to use like just name your program 'main' and stick it in such-and-such directory. Any help? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:50 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Open a new file hello.clj in your current directory. Type in (println hello world), save and close. Run with java -jar /path/to/clojure.jar hello.clj Cheers, Stefan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
After you have lein installed, give La Clojure a try. It's the best IDE plugin I've found, and runs with InteliJ. You can do lein pom And lein will create a project file for you that you can open with La Clojure. Timothy On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Stefan Sigurdsson ste...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:50 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Open a new file hello.clj in your current directory. Type in (println hello world), save and close. Run with java -jar /path/to/clojure.jar hello.clj Cheers, Stefan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Extra params for a handler inside Ring's wrap-params
Hi!
Routing, using ring.middleware.params and net.cgrand.moustache:
(def tlog-app-handler
(app [admin ]
{:get (app ...snip...)
:post (app wrap-params [[path not-empty] ] submit-article)}
Thanks to wrap-params, I can destructure request params within
submit-article. However, I also want to have path. Without
wrap-params, it would simply be:
(app [[path not-empty] ] (submit-article path))
(app wrap-params [[path not-empty] ] (partial submit-article path))
results in nth not supported on this type: PersistentHashMap
assoc-param (see
http://mmcgrana.github.com/ring/middleware.params-api.html) looks like
it could be what I need, but I can't find out how to use it in this
context (what wraps what and what is the right map?)
I realize that I could extract path from the request map, but I would
prefer a solution where what has been taken apart already is used,
instead of repeating that work.
--
Thorsten Wilms
thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
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Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
I'll be damned - this worked. Really, there needs to be some prominent, easily-accessible guides for just dumb, ultra-basic stuff like this. I'm talking guides that assume the user has no knowledge of anything except programming and editing (I mean, I don't even know what the heck a jar file is). And these guides need to be linked right at the front page of the Clojure site. Anyway, thanks. On Mar 23, 7:25 pm, Stefan Sigurdsson ste...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:50 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Open a new file hello.clj in your current directory. Type in (println hello world), save and close. Run with java -jar /path/to/clojure.jar hello.clj Cheers, Stefan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:11 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: I'll be damned - this worked. Really, there needs to be some prominent, easily-accessible guides for just dumb, ultra-basic stuff like this. I'm talking guides that assume the user has no knowledge of anything except programming and editing (I mean, I don't even know what the heck a jar file is). And these guides need to be linked right at the front page of the Clojure site. Anyway, thanks. If it helps, I feel your pain. I bought books on Clojure, read everything I could, and it still took me 8 months of on and off again trials till I finally understood how it worked. Part of the issue is Java, imo. The whole java class path thing is very annoying. I think I got python up and running on my box in a matter of minutes. C# has such a nice IDE that it's super-simple to start programming in that. Even Ruby has excellent instructions on how to get started. Clojure on the other hand has it's own way of doing things, and when it can't resolve something it looks to Java, and from there Java tries to find libs and symbols and if it can't, it just blows up with some cryptic Java exception. Yeah...that's the down-side of working with a language that sits on the JVM. /rant Don't get me wrong, I love Clojure, but the learning curve can be steep. Timothy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
MMhh it would be to hard to design a little guid for this. There are peole who don't know java and if you don't know what a jar file is you can understand java -jar. Somethink like that should be on the clojure website. Something like A Letter to a new Clojure Developer. Posting stuff like this in a blog want be good because once people find it its outdated. Possible Content: Starting with whats a VM. Showing what the JVM needs to run. How to Compile to that with clojure. What are the tools to make this practical ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:11 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: I'll be damned - this worked. Really, there needs to be some prominent, easily-accessible guides for just dumb, ultra-basic stuff like this. I'm talking guides that assume the user has no knowledge of anything except programming and editing (I mean, I don't even know what the heck a jar file is). And these guides need to be linked right at the front page of the Clojure site. Anyway, thanks. http://clojure.org/getting_started http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Getting_Started http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Getting_Started Did you search for getting started guides? If so and you didn't find these, how can they be made easier to find? If you didn't find them, why not? If you found them and they didn't help, why not? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Yes, the issue isn't Clojure at all, it's Java. At any rate, thanks for feeling my pain. On Mar 23, 8:59 pm, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:11 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: I'll be damned - this worked. Really, there needs to be some prominent, easily-accessible guides for just dumb, ultra-basic stuff like this. I'm talking guides that assume the user has no knowledge of anything except programming and editing (I mean, I don't even know what the heck a jar file is). And these guides need to be linked right at the front page of the Clojure site. Anyway, thanks. If it helps, I feel your pain. I bought books on Clojure, read everything I could, and it still took me 8 months of on and off again trials till I finally understood how it worked. Part of the issue is Java, imo. The whole java class path thing is very annoying. I think I got python up and running on my box in a matter of minutes. C# has such a nice IDE that it's super-simple to start programming in that. Even Ruby has excellent instructions on how to get started. Clojure on the other hand has it's own way of doing things, and when it can't resolve something it looks to Java, and from there Java tries to find libs and symbols and if it can't, it just blows up with some cryptic Java exception. Yeah...that's the down-side of working with a language that sits on the JVM. /rant Don't get me wrong, I love Clojure, but the learning curve can be steep. Timothy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: fs - file system utilities for Clojure
Not so. Windows commands of the form someProgram /some/path often mistake /some/path for command-line switches (like Unix flags). I had real-world problems with this when trying to run a Rails app on Windows, because of the issue discussed here: http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/50137 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
There is this genre of coming of age films that shows the hero getting beaten up by a bully, then a montage scene, then glorious victory. You are transitioning from the being beaten up by the bully scene to the montage scene. Time for lots of study =) On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:20 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mar 23, 9:10 pm, Aaron Cohen aa...@assonance.org wrote: Did you search for getting started guides? If so and you didn't find these, how can they be made easier to find? If you didn't find them, why not? If you found them and they didn't help, why not? Yes, I had previously found all those guides, and much more (screencasts, etc). They didn't help because they either showed you how to get a REPL up and going, or they showed you how to download and run something like NetBeans. In the first case, there is only so much coding you can do in a REPL. In the latter case, fine - I have NetBeans. NOW what do I do? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Did you follow the presentation of getting started with Eclipse+Counterclockwise, where the step by step guide explains how to setup your environment, and also how to create a hello world project ? 2011/3/23 ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com On Mar 23, 9:10 pm, Aaron Cohen aa...@assonance.org wrote: Did you search for getting started guides? If so and you didn't find these, how can they be made easier to find? If you didn't find them, why not? If you found them and they didn't help, why not? Yes, I had previously found all those guides, and much more (screencasts, etc). They didn't help because they either showed you how to get a REPL up and going, or they showed you how to download and run something like NetBeans. In the first case, there is only so much coding you can do in a REPL. In the latter case, fine - I have NetBeans. NOW what do I do? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Maybe try Leiningen? It is very nice, and it can take care of much of the
Java hassle more or less behind the scenes.
First download
https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/raw/master/bin/leinhttps://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/raw/master/bin/lein.bat
(Linux,
OSX, Cygwin)
https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/raw/master/bin/lein.bat (Windows)
and put in /tmp or C:\Temp, then add to your path:
export PATH=/tmp:${PATH} (Linux...)
set PATH=C:\Temp;%PATH% (Windows)
Then run
lein self-install
lein new hello
cd hello
echo (defn -main [] (println \hello core\)) src/hello/core.clj
lein run -m hello.core
(The echo is slightly different on Windows... just edit the file if that's a
problem :)
If that works, then simply try
lein
and read through the other options, followed up with
lein help whatever-strikes-your-fancy
Cheers,
Stefan
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:20 PM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 23, 9:10 pm, Aaron Cohen aa...@assonance.org wrote:
Did you search for getting started guides? If so and you didn't find
these, how can they be made easier to find? If you didn't find them,
why not? If you found them and they didn't help, why not?
Yes, I had previously found all those guides, and much more
(screencasts, etc). They didn't help because they either showed you
how to get a REPL up and going, or they showed you how to download and
run something like NetBeans. In the first case, there is only so much
coding you can do in a REPL. In the latter case, fine - I have
NetBeans. NOW what do I do?
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Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 23, 9:43 pm, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote: Did you follow the presentation of getting started with Eclipse+Counterclockwise, where the step by step guide explains how to setup your environment, and also how to create a hello world project ? No I did not, because I didn't go the Eclipse route; rather, I tried NetBeans and Emacs. That's two platforms. If you are saying that the presentation for a third platform - Eclipse - answers my questions posted here, perhaps it would be a good idea to factor those answers out of the Eclipse presentation and placed somewhere else? Just an idea, anyway. On another note, I must say that the people here seem so friendly and willing to help, thank goodness. If the posters here thus far are indicative of the community at large, newbies coming in should be in good hands. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
2011/3/23 ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com On another note, I must say that the people here seem so friendly and willing to help, thank goodness. If the posters here thus far are indicative of the community at large, newbies coming in should be in good hands. They are -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
No I did not, because I didn't go the Eclipse route; rather, I tried NetBeans and Emacs. That was my experience as well. I have tried many Eclipse based IDEs and they all were slow, buggy, and utterly worthless. So I didn't even try to touch Eclipse. Emacs is...wellemacs. Sorry, but when I'm trying to learn a language, remembering what spell to cast on the keyboard to get the editor to run my script, was just a little too much to keep track of at one time. NetBeans has some major flaws, such as don't click the Start REPL on the run menu, as that doesn't work too well. Instead click on your project and click Start REPL (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1674793/enclojure-repl-cant-find-dependent-clj-file-on-load). That's just sad. From what I've read and heard, TextMate would probably do exactly what I want, but that only runs on Mac. Timothy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 23, 10:15 pm, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: No I did not, because I didn't go the Eclipse route; rather, I tried NetBeans and Emacs. That was my experience as well. I have tried many Eclipse based IDEs and they all were slow, buggy, and utterly worthless. So I didn't even try to touch Eclipse. Yes, I didn't state it earlier, but in fact I had a horrible experience with Eclipse before, and thus purposefully avoided it this go-around. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
2011/3/23 Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com No I did not, because I didn't go the Eclipse route; rather, I tried NetBeans and Emacs. That was my experience as well. I have tried many Eclipse based IDEs and they all were slow, buggy, and utterly worthless. So I didn't even try to touch Eclipse. It's a shame that such past experiences have made you avoid even trying ccw/Eclipse combo. That said, what's important is that you're sufficiently happy with the solution you have currently. Cheers, -- Laurent Emacs is...wellemacs. Sorry, but when I'm trying to learn a language, remembering what spell to cast on the keyboard to get the editor to run my script, was just a little too much to keep track of at one time. NetBeans has some major flaws, such as don't click the Start REPL on the run menu, as that doesn't work too well. Instead click on your project and click Start REPL ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1674793/enclojure-repl-cant-find-dependent-clj-file-on-load ). That's just sad. From what I've read and heard, TextMate would probably do exactly what I want, but that only runs on Mac. Timothy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
I wrote this post: http://blog.raynes.me/?p=48 for the precise purpose of showing newbies how to do what you want to do. One could make things a lot easier by writing an 'official' guide, assuming mine didn't meet that particular cut, along the lines of what I was aiming for and link it on http://clojure.org On Mar 23, 3:50 am, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I'm not used to all this complexity just to do something simple. What I want to do is the normal programming that I do with every other environment and language I work with, i.e. I edit some source code on screen, save it in a file, and either compile/run, or interpret it or whatever. But I haven't figured out how to do that yet, and don't know if it's possible. I downloaded Netbeans and Enclojure. It runs fine. I can get a REPL, blah blah. But have no idea how to do anything real i.e. execute a program saved in a file. Again, I want to edit some code with the very nice editor, save it, and hit some button that says execute or perhaps compile and execute or perhaps build and execute or whatever. But apparently there is a heck of a lot more to it than that. I understand that you have to build a project or whatever. Fine - I did that. Still, I have no idea which directory out of that huge structure I'm supposed to put code in, I have no idea how to set up all these dependencies or whatever. I did try some random stuff, i.e. saving a file in various directories and hitting build but that didn't work. I also tried editing various files that were already there, hoping one of them was the main file I was supposed to be dumping source code into, but that didn't work either. So I downloaded Clojure Box. It installs and runs fine. Again, I get a REPL no problem. But there's only so much coding I can do in a REPL. Again, I'd like to do more. I spent a long time trying to find some help online (googling, etc), but everything I've found assumes I know too much, i.e. how to set up all these projects and dependencies. Actually, I'm not interested in fooling with all the boilerplate and crap AT ALL. So if I HAVE to do that, I'm outta here. But something tells me I may not have to, i.e. there may be some automated tool somewhere, or some template files I can just use over and over, or some trick to use like just name your program 'main' and stick it in such-and-such directory. Any help? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Hi, I started with NetBeans and Enclojure and never used anything else. You can just go File/New Project, say this is going to be a Clojure project, give it a name. This will be your new active project in the projects tree on the left. There you go to Source Packages, down the tree to defpackage.clj, hack the source and hit the green Run main project button to run it. You should have the output window open, so you see your hello world - it is under Window/output. Later, you left-click the project (in the project tree) and you will find that Enclojure has made you a jar by default (this is the JVM equivalent of an executable file). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Emacs is...wellemacs. Sorry, but when I'm trying to learn a language, remembering what spell to cast on the keyboard to get the editor to run my script, was just a little too much to keep track of at one time. You either love emacs or you don't. I used to be surprised that there were *any* lispers who don't prefer emacs, considering the wonderful things you can do with emacs lisp, and the many other conveniences for working with s-expressions, slime, etc. I wonder if the mixed lineage of Clojure is the reason why there are many Clojurers who don't prefer emacs. My guess is that emacs still holds a majority even in the Clojure lisp world, and almost definitely in the Common Lisp world. As for the OP, yes Java is very annoying. Lein solves most of the Java annoyances, as others have also said. When *not* using lein, I *still* find it very annoying to say, write a script that does the correct java classpath incantations to get something to compile or run as a script. Java is just painful. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Type in (println hello world), save and close. Run with java -jar /path/to/clojure.jar hello.clj Very handy to know. It might be nice to have it on http://clojure.org/getting_started and/or on http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Getting_Started as Running a Clojure script from the command line or Getting started with a plain old text editor :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
From what I've read and heard, TextMate would probably do exactly what I want, but that only runs on Mac. Note there is a Windows version of textmate. http://www.e-texteditor.com/ And I've been able to use the bundles from the mac version in the windows version (for other languages at least - I haven't tried the clojure one yet). Tim On Mar 23, 9:15 am, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Clojure in Small Pieces -- Literate Clojure
On Wed, 2011-03-23 at 00:31 -0700, Christian Schuhegger wrote: Does a public repository exist (e.g. on github) where people could clone the repository and potentially contribute? There is no repository. Everything (including all of the runnable source) is in a single book. To build a running Clojure REPL and a PDF copy of the book do: wget http://literatesoftware.com/clojure.pamphlet wget http://literatesoftware.com/tangle.c (the tangle.c source is also in the book so you could extract it from the pamphlet file instead) wget http://literatesoftware.com/clojure.pdf (not really necessary as the next step will create the pdf but you might want to read it first) gcc -o tangle tangle.c tangle clojure.pamphlet Makefile Makefile make You end up with a running Clojure REPL and a PDF of the book. To make changes just modify the clojure.pamphlet file and type make You can send me your complete changed version or do diff -Naur clojure.pamphlet.original clojure.pamphlet.new clojure.patch The basic philosophy of literate programming is that you are writing for other people, not for the machine. This book is an attempt to make the Clojure source code readable by more people. What we are trying to do is start from the ideas and move to the code so people understand why the code does what it does. Tim Daly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 00:50:10 -0700 (PDT) ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I don't think you can get very far in Clojure without having to come to grips with the Java infrastructure. It ain't Unix. Anyway, I wrote http://www.mired.org/writing/a-guide-to-javaless-clojure to help people get as far as possible without having to deal with the that infrastructure. mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: fs - file system utilities for Clojure
On 23 March 2011 15:21, Jeffrey Schwab j...@schwabcenter.com wrote: Not so. Windows commands of the form someProgram /some/path often mistake /some/path for command-line switches (like Unix flags). Yes, working around this issue is discussed in the Wikipedia article I linked to. I had real-world problems with this when trying to run a Rails app on Windows, because of the issue discussed here: http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/50137 Mhh, that sounds dire, especially this comment: However, the Unicode Win32API -- which will be used in the future -- does not accept /. Thanks for bringing it up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Noob Question - Clojure number rounding
I'm trying to round a decimal number like 78.37898794 to say 78.379, without converting it to a string. I've been struggling to get this right and to get info on it. The closest that I've found is to use: format %.3f. But format converts the number to a string. Not exactly what I'm trying to do. How can I do this in Clojure, or where is info on how to do it? Thanks for your help. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Emacs with Lisp and Clojure.
Hi, I am a newbie to Ubuntu (10.10) and Emacs (23). I have been able to satisfactorily setup Eclipse and CCW, thanks to feedback from CCW user group members. However, I wanted to explore Clojure through Emacs. I have clojure-mode 1.7.1, slime and slime-repl 20100404 installed. I've also installed the ELPA. I've read the assembla wiki and also seen Lau Jensen's video on getting started with Emacs and clojure. I have the following in my ~/.emacs file (please note, some of the lines are commented) - ;; Set up the Common Lisp environment (add-to-list 'load-path /usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/) (add-to-list 'load-path /opt/clojure-mode/) ;;(add-hook 'slime-repl-mode-hook 'clojure-mode-font-lock-setup) ;;(add-to-list 'package-archives '(marmalade . http://marmalade- repo.org/packages/) t) ;;(setq inferior-lisp-program /usr/bin/sbcl) (setq x-select-enable-clipboard t) (require 'clojure-mode) (require 'slime) (slime-setup) (setq slime-lisp-implementations '((clojure (/usr/bin/clojure)) (sbcl (/usr/bin/sbcl ;;; This was installed by package-install.el. ;;; This provides support for the package system and ;;; interfacing with ELPA, the package archive. ;;; Move this code earlier if you want to reference ;;; packages in your .emacs. (when (load (expand-file-name ~/.emacs.d/elpa/package.el)) (package-initialize)) Now when I try to install swank-clojure, I get the following message - File exists: /home/manoj/.emacs.d/elpa/clojure-mode-1.7.1/clojure- mode.el And then, after running Emacs, when I say, C-u M-x slime, it prompts me with Run lisp: lisp and when I change lisp to Clojure, I get a clojure prompt. But - 1) There is no auto indentation (so when I go to the next line, after say (defn some[]), it starts with the first col. in this new line) 2) I can also delete the user = prompt (where as with SBCL prompt, it says the text is read-only). Please let me know if I am doing something wrong or missing some steps. I would also like the ability to run Lisp and / or Clojure in Emacs (because I am learning both of them). Thanks in advance, Manoj. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Noob Question - Clojure number rounding
Hi,
a bit naive, but it seems to work…
user= (defn round
[x {p :precision}]
(if p
(let [scale (Math/pow 10 p)]
(- x (* scale) Math/round (/ scale)))
(Math/round x)))
#'user/round
user= (round 78.37898794)
78
user= (round 78.37898794 :precision 3)
78.379
There are probably thousand reasons not to do that…
Sincerely
Meikel
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Re: Noob Question - Clojure number rounding
Another way: (defn myround [x precision] (- x (bigdec) (.movePointRight precision) (+ 0.5) (int) (bigdec) (.movePointLeft precision))) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Emacs with Lisp and Clojure.
On 03/23/2011 08:07 PM, mmwaikar wrote: Now when I try to install swank-clojure, I get the following message - File exists: /home/manoj/.emacs.d/elpa/clojure-mode-1.7.1/clojure- mode.el I vaguely recall that I had the same problem and solved it by simply moving the existing clojure-mode.el out of the way. You can delete it, if that works. But - 1) There is no auto indentation (so when I go to the next line, after say (defn some[]), it starts with the first col. in this new line) Could be the job of Paredit (I'm not sure what does what, here). -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Emacs with Lisp and Clojure.
Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de writes: Hi, 1) There is no auto indentation (so when I go to the next line, after say (defn some[]), it starts with the first col. in this new line) Could be the job of Paredit (I'm not sure what does what, here). No, paredit has nothing to do with that. He probably goes to the next line with RET, which is `newline' by default. Maybe he wants to bind `newline-and-indent' to RET, instead. (define-key clojure-mode-map (kbd RET) 'newline-and-indent) Bye, Tassilo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Noob Question - Clojure number rounding
You may also consider using java interop here. (defn round [s n] (.setScale (bigdec n) s java.math.RoundingMode/HALF_EVEN)) = (round 3 78.37898794) = 78.379 see http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/math/BigDecimal.html Brenton On Mar 23, 11:08 am, JDuPreez jacques...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to round a decimal number like 78.37898794 to say 78.379, without converting it to a string. I've been struggling to get this right and to get info on it. The closest that I've found is to use: format %.3f. But format converts the number to a string. Not exactly what I'm trying to do. How can I do this in Clojure, or where is info on how to do it? Thanks for your help. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Deep recursion, continuation passing style, trampolining and memoization
@Mark, yeah, I meant using the bottom-up approach and passing that matrix as the accumulator. (I thought that I remembered seeing such an implementation in the goopy library, but when I looked today I didn't find any lev implementation at all.) @Christian, yes, I missed the point of your question. When I hear the words stack overflow I reach for recur. On Mar 23, 1:32 am, Christian Schuhegger christian.schuheg...@gmail.com wrote: Actually Mark is right. My point is not about the Levenshtein distance. I've even found a quite nice and concise implementation here on the list a few weeks ago: generic (works for any seq) levenshtein distancehttps://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/c5da3ac1b67... My point is about what the subject says: deep recursion, CPS, trampolining and memoization. My question is: how to do that in idiomatic clojure in general? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Noob Question - Clojure number rounding
On Mar 23, 8:07 pm, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
a bit naive, but it seems to work…
user= (defn round
[x {p :precision}]
(if p
(let [scale (Math/pow 10 p)]
(- x (* scale) Math/round (/ scale)))
(Math/round x)))
#'user/round
user= (round 78.37898794)
78
user= (round 78.37898794 :precision 3)
78.379
There are probably thousand reasons not to do that…
Most important one being that it won't be reliable. Floats are
fundamentally not compatible with decimal rounding. You'll have to
switch to some other representation like (big) decimals, fixed point
or strings to get it.
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Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 24, 1:11 am, Mike Meyer m...@mired.org wrote: Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I don't think you can get very far in Clojure without having to come to grips with the Java infrastructure. It ain't Unix. Well, for me I guess it will depend on how much coming to grips I have to do. If it is much more than clicking on some automation tool to generate boilerplate (leinengen?), or typing in java -jar blah blah at a command prompt, I'm outta here. I have been offered money to program in java in the past. I turned it down, turning the phrase you couldn't pay me to program in java into a reality. It's fair to state that I hate java more than any other language. I'd rather program in COBOL than java. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Nope, I get a no main class found. On Mar 23, 11:23 pm, wschnell walter.schn...@online.de wrote: Hi, I started with NetBeans and Enclojure and never used anything else. You can just go File/New Project, say this is going to be a Clojure project, give it a name. This will be your new active project in the projects tree on the left. There you go to Source Packages, down the tree to defpackage.clj, hack the source and hit the green Run main project button to run it. You should have the output window open, so you see your hello world - it is under Window/output. Later, you left-click the project (in the project tree) and you will find that Enclojure has made you a jar by default (this is the JVM equivalent of an executable file). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On 23 Mar, 23:55, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mar 24, 1:11 am, Mike Meyer m...@mired.org wrote: Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I don't think you can get very far in Clojure without having to come to grips with the Java infrastructure. It ain't Unix. Well, for me I guess it will depend on how much coming to grips I have to do. If it is much more than clicking on some automation tool to generate boilerplate (leinengen?), or typing in java -jar blah blah at a command prompt, I'm outta here. I have been offered money to program in java in the past. I turned it down, turning the phrase you couldn't pay me to program in java into a reality. It's fair to state that I hate java more than any other language. I'd rather program in COBOL than java. Unless you're doing very strange or advanced things, you aren't required to write any Java code in order to use Clojure. However, this doesn't mean you won't have to deal with some JVM tools and libraries sooner or later. After all, tight integration with the JVM is often cited as one of Clojure's key points. Some people like it, some don't - it has both advantages and drawbacks, despite what fanboys on both sides believe. I don't use Clojure myself - I just follow this NG because it's full of nice people and a great source of inspiration, but I'm a user of another Lisp - so I hope the following is not considered trolling, but: imho, if the JVM is too much an impediment for you, then Clojure probably is not the right choice for you. Clojure today is both a Lisp with strong support for certain kinds of concurrency constructs, AND a JVM language; it's hard to separate the two aspects (as it is today; things might change in the future). In other words, the JVM is not just an implementation detail. Perhaps unfortunately, as far as I know, no language with the same characteristics as Clojure exists outside of the JVM (apart from ClojureCLR, but I guess that if one hates the JVM, he'll hate the CLR too). Just my .02. Alessio -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 23, 7:10 am, Aaron Cohen aa...@assonance.org wrote: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Getting_Started [...] Did you search for getting started guides? If so and you didn't find these, how can they be made easier to find? If you didn't find them, why not? If you found them and they didn't help, why not? The wikibooks getting started page is frankly pretty intimidating. I can't see a new user actually wading through all that and finding something useful from it. Is the wikibooks site maintained? My only experience with it has been finding 2008-era advice on it, and even that extremely disjoint. There are a handful of pages with solid content that has aged well, but with all the new documentation efforts that have come up recently perhaps something could be done to retire it? Outdated documentation is a big burden for maintainers as well as newbies. -Phil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:55:51 -0700 (PDT) ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mar 24, 1:11 am, Mike Meyer m...@mired.org wrote: Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I don't think you can get very far in Clojure without having to come to grips with the Java infrastructure. It ain't Unix. Well, for me I guess it will depend on how much coming to grips I have to do. If it is much more than clicking on some automation tool to generate boilerplate (leinengen?), or typing in java -jar blah blah at a command prompt, I'm outta here. I have been offered money to program in java in the past. I turned it down, turning the phrase you couldn't pay me to program in java into a reality. It's fair to state that I hate java more than any other language. I'd rather program in COBOL than java. I tend to agree - and I've written just enough of both to give that statement some weight. Then again, I used to say that the major difference between programming in COBOL and digging ditches is that programming in COBOL pays better. The thing is, you can deal with the Java infrastructure without having to write any Java. They use XML files for everything, so you wind up writing lots of little and not-so-little XML files to use the infrastructure. The Clojure community is building tools that let you write S-expressions (as understood by Clojure) instead of those XML files. They either replace some Java tool, or produce the XML for you. I'm not sure going from Java to XML is a win. I *am* sure that going from XML to S-expressions is a win. But that still leaves you with a lot of infrastructure (when compared to a unix philosophy equivalent) to deal with to do things that are reasonable tasks for JVM-based tools. mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
Ahead-of-time compiled (AOT) code with `defprotocol` and `defrecord` creates interfaces and classes you can access from Java. You don't need gen-class, which is usually only necessary for public static void main methods and edge-case Java interop problems. I wrote about this on IBM developerWorks: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-clojure-protocols/#N1058C -Stuart Sierra clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
I have been offered money to program in java in the past. I turned it down, turning the phrase you couldn't pay me to program in java into a reality. It's fair to state that I hate java more than any other language. I'd rather program in COBOL than java. That's quite alright. Nine out of ten people here hate java; even people who love java hate java, that's normal. If you have the interest and motivation to do some cool things with this technology -- work or fun-- hang in there and after a while all that pain becomes just a chore; that's when you've come to grips with it, as Mike said. The last time I felt that pain was last year when I learned maven to write my clojure apps. It was painful but they helped in this board and now I'm OK with it. But there's no question that to use Clojure you need a good grasp of java, the language and infrastructure, no way around that. Once you learn that you might hate it some more. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Jeff Heon jfh...@gmail.com wrote: Type in (println hello world), save and close. Run with java -jar /path/to/clojure.jar hello.clj Very handy to know. It might be nice to have it on http://clojure.org/getting_started It's here: http://clojure.org/repl_and_main so it sounds like the latter could / should be more discoverable. I suggest adding something like the following between the Editing and Debugging sections on the getting_started page: To learn more about the REPL described above or running simple Clojure scripts, read the section [The REPL and main]. I just walked another Clojure / Java newbie through the Leiningen process and they were excited to see their first .clj file run - but they also complained about how unapproachable Clojure seems if you're not a Java weenie because the classpath / dependency thing. The current state of IDE tooling doesn't help newbies either - and recommending Emacs to folks coming from a non-Lisp background is likely to be a non-starter if they already have a favorite editor. And of course, all this is worse on Windows than Mac / Linux (but that's true for nearly every open source language project, IMO). -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ Perfection is the enemy of the good. -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
This is a well-known problem for people new to the JVM. There is a FAQ under development at http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/FAQ to which I have just added a Java Ecosystem section and a Running section. Let me know if there are other questions you ran into that should be included. Project management and dependencies are a whole other problem. As this thread indicates, there are plenty of tools to address it, but nothing matching the convenience you may be used to from scripting languages. That's mostly just the pain of being on a very large platform designed for enterprise-type projects, but that was a choice made for the other advantages it brings. Thanks, -Stuart Sierra clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 23, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Armando Blancas wrote: But there's no question that to use Clojure you need a good grasp of java, the language and infrastructure, no way around that. I don't know about that. I've been teaching a young'un Clojure without ever mentioning anything about Java. Knowing a bit about the JVM and .jar files and such might be helpful in setting things up initially, and certainly Java libraries (both standard and third-party) can come in handy to solve certain kinds of problems; but even for that you don't really need to know Java the language. Then again, maybe I'm underestimating how hard it would be to read Java API docs without knowing the language... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 23, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Armando Blancas wrote: But there's no question that to use Clojure you need a good grasp of java, the language and infrastructure, no way around that. Once you learn that you might hate it some more. I don't think that has to be true. It depends both on what you're using the language for and the tools that are made available. I almost never need java interop for the things that I do, and if the tool options were a little better then I would be able to remain blissfully ignorant of java infrastructure as well. By if the tools were a little better I mean if there was a beginner-friendly and background-agnostic option for editing and running programs, and managing simple projects, without complicated installation or configuration (it should be a one-click download/install!) or a steep learning curve for any of the pieces. There are a couple of good options for all of the pieces of this, but IMHO nothing that handles them all reasonably well simultaneously. But I do think it's possible, that several projects are close to achieving this from different directions, and that people in this community could make it happen if they appreciated the need. FWIW the thing that seems closest to me, that I've seen, is textmate-clojure: it uses cake to provide a straightforward, flexible, and community-idiomatic way to run and manage projects, and it provides language-aware editing that's simple to set up and has almost no learning curve. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be actively supported and issues posted on the github site several months ago haven't been addressed. And it's not cross-platform (which doesn't bother me too much since I generally work in Mac OS). But still, it's an existence proof for a reasonable solution to many of the problems that the OP raised (and many problems that I have using and teaching Clojure). If there was an actively supported, cross-platform system that does what textmate-clojure almost does, and if a pointer to such a thing could be on the clojure.org getting started page, then I think that new users would have a vastly better experience and that the entire community would benefit. -Lee -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Should destructure emit not nthnext, but nthrest?
Hi, I think destructure should not produce nthnext, because it realize an element of sequence more than needed. For example: (defn inc-seq [i] (iterate #(let [x (inc %)] (println realize: x) x) i)) ;= #'user/inc-seq (take 1 (inc-seq 0)) ;= (0) (take 1 (let [[x xs] (inc-seq 0)] (cons x xs))) ; realize: 1 ;= (0) (macroexpand '(let [[x xs] (inc-seq 0)] (cons x xs))) ;= (let* [vec__2630 (inc-seq 0) x (clojure.core/nth vec__2630 0 nil) xs (clojure.core/nthnext vec__2630 1)] (cons x xs)) Although nthrest isn't in clojure, why not to use nthrest instead of nthnext in destructure? What do you think? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 23, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Armando Blancas wrote: I have been offered money to program in java in the past. I turned it down, turning the phrase you couldn't pay me to program in java into a reality. It's fair to state that I hate java more than any other language. I'd rather program in COBOL than java. That's quite alright. Nine out of ten people here hate java; even people who love java hate java, that's normal. If you have the interest and motivation to do some cool things with this technology -- work or fun-- hang in there and after a while all that pain becomes just a chore; that's when you've come to grips with it, as Mike said. The last time I felt that pain was last year when I learned maven to write my clojure apps. It was painful but they helped in this board and now I'm OK with it. But there's no question that to use Clojure you need a good grasp of java, the language and infrastructure, no way around that. Once you learn that you might hate it some more. You certainly don't need to know much of anything about Java-the-language, but it's hard to get very far without understanding how the JVM works, at least in some critical (and basic) ways. Perhaps a (bad) analogy might be the relationship between e.g. Python and POSIX. A lot of what makes python great is that it provides a great abstraction for various system-level libraries and services that are defined by POSIX. Not having even a rudimentary understanding of those underpinnings will always put you at a disadvantage. In any case, Clojure is *very* young. All of the tooling available for it currently has been assembled by volunteers in the community, all of which are (understandably, I think) scratching their own itches, most of which are inevitably not going to be those felt by total greenhorns. That tooling will get better, and will become more and more palatable to newcomers, but it's not going to happen overnight. FWIW, it looks like effective introductory/educational environments for Java started appearing *years* after it was introduced (looks like BlueJ came out 5-6 years after Java 1.0? [1]). We'll get there, and probably in far less time. :-) - Chas [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Should destructure emit not nthnext, but nthrest?
If you don't plan to use the rest arguments, and in fact don't care about them at all, why are you binding them to something? More importantly, it would make the following idiom a lot more clumsy: (defn sum [list] (let [[x xs] list] (+ x (if xs (sum xs) 0 Using rest would cause the xs part to always be true, because to determine whether the sequence is empty you would have to call seq on it. On Mar 23, 6:23 pm, Takahiro Hozumi fat...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I think destructure should not produce nthnext, because it realize an element of sequence more than needed. For example: (defn inc-seq [i] (iterate #(let [x (inc %)] (println realize: x) x) i)) ;= #'user/inc-seq (take 1 (inc-seq 0)) ;= (0) (take 1 (let [[x xs] (inc-seq 0)] (cons x xs))) ; realize: 1 ;= (0) (macroexpand '(let [[x xs] (inc-seq 0)] (cons x xs))) ;= (let* [vec__2630 (inc-seq 0) x (clojure.core/nth vec__2630 0 nil) xs (clojure.core/nthnext vec__2630 1)] (cons x xs)) Although nthrest isn't in clojure, why not to use nthrest instead of nthnext in destructure? What do you think? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 24, 7:26 am, Armando Blancas armando_blan...@yahoo.com wrote: That's quite alright. Nine out of ten people here hate java; Actually, I didn't know that. I imagined that 9 out of 10 people here would be java-ites. It's good to know that I'm in good company. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Should destructure emit not nthnext, but nthrest?
If you don't plan to use the rest arguments, and in fact don't care about them at all, why are you binding them to something? I omitted code for sake of simplicity. There are situations which require rest arguments. Using rest would cause the xs part to always be true You're right. I see to use nthrest instead of nthnext can break code, so unfortunately this is unwelcome change. Thanks! On 3月24日, 午前11:28, Alan a...@malloys.org wrote: If you don't plan to use the rest arguments, and in fact don't care about them at all, why are you binding them to something? More importantly, it would make the following idiom a lot more clumsy: (defn sum [list] (let [[x xs] list] (+ x (if xs (sum xs) 0 Using rest would cause the xs part to always be true, because to determine whether the sequence is empty you would have to call seq on it. On Mar 23, 6:23 pm, Takahiro Hozumi fat...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I think destructure should not produce nthnext, because it realize an element of sequence more than needed. For example: (defn inc-seq [i] (iterate #(let [x (inc %)] (println realize: x) x) i)) ;= #'user/inc-seq (take 1 (inc-seq 0)) ;= (0) (take 1 (let [[x xs] (inc-seq 0)] (cons x xs))) ; realize: 1 ;= (0) (macroexpand '(let [[x xs] (inc-seq 0)] (cons x xs))) ;= (let* [vec__2630 (inc-seq 0) x (clojure.core/nth vec__2630 0 nil) xs (clojure.core/nthnext vec__2630 1)] (cons x xs)) Although nthrest isn't in clojure, why not to use nthrest instead of nthnext in destructure? What do you think? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 PM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mar 24, 7:26 am, Armando Blancas armando_blan...@yahoo.com wrote: That's quite alright. Nine out of ten people here hate java; Actually, I didn't know that. I imagined that 9 out of 10 people here would be java-ites. It's good to know that I'm in good company. Heh, even as a long-time Java developer (since '97), I'm here because I want something _better_ than Java. It's why I learned Groovy in 2008 (sort of Java-lite - fixes most of Java's problems but suffers from performance issues compared to Java), Scala in 2009 (sort of Java++ - fixes most of Java's problems but suffers from a split personality since it's a hybrid OO/FP language and has a frightening type system - for the people I need to work with), and then Clojure in 2010. I went to production with Groovy (in 2008) and it was a successful project. I went to production with Scala in 2010 and I'm sort of happy with it. We're going to production with Clojure in 2011. Yay! -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ Perfection is the enemy of the good. -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Emacs with Lisp and Clojure.
But the same enter key works properly when I am using Lisp, so why shouldn't it be the default in Clojure as well? Also, after removing clojure-mode, when I try to install swank- clojure, it again installs the clojure-mode, but fails to install itself? regards, Manoj. On Mar 24, 12:45 am, Tassilo Horn tass...@member.fsf.org wrote: Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de writes: Hi, 1) There is no auto indentation (so when I go to the next line, after say (defn some[]), it starts with the first col. in this new line) Could be the job of Paredit (I'm not sure what does what, here). No, paredit has nothing to do with that. He probably goes to the next line with RET, which is `newline' by default. Maybe he wants to bind `newline-and-indent' to RET, instead. (define-key clojure-mode-map (kbd RET) 'newline-and-indent) Bye, Tassilo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
