Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Devin Walters]

One item that hasn't made the project ideas list that I've seen numerous 
threads about is documentation. Does this fall within the scope of GSoC?

It seems like there are a lot of opportunities to either organize, revise, 
update, or generate documentation.

Some ideas:
- Clojure.org's Libraries section still talks about contrib like it's first 
class.
- The Getting Started guide could always use more work.
- StackOverflow contains nuggets of wisdom that aren't anywhere in official 
documentation. (It also contains a lot of bad answers, but still…)
- I've heard it said on more than one occasion that xyz docstring is out of 
date.
- This is one of the few communities where you can go back to 2008 and read a 
transcript of a conversation between Chouser and Rich about why map 
destructuring is the way it is. Some of these conversations hold some deep 
wisdom about Why Things Are The Way They Are.
- This list contains truckloads of information that could be organized for more 
efficient consumption.
- ClojureScript wouldn't be hurt by more documentation.
- Without making this a laundry list I'd just say: Producing and organizing 
good documentation is hard labor, but it is also something that I think 
benefits the entire community. Moreover, it might give someone a chance to 
learn a ton about Clojure over the course of a summer, and make it easier on 
everyone who decides to try out Clojure in the future as a nice side effect. 
I'd like to suggest we add an intentionally vague option to "Make Lots of 
Things Better" and list some ideas for how one might go about doing that.

More ideas that might bear interesting and desirable fruit:
- Make an album with Overtone. (Kidding (but only a little bit (not kidding at 
all, actually (I bet we'd get some passionate proposals (and maybe even a 
record deal ;)
- The sidebar on the left of the GSoC page lists an opening for a Community 
Manager Internship. I think a lot of what I'm suggesting falls under that 
umbrella. "creating/editing documentation, helping migrate projects to newer 
versions of clojure, developing sample applications such as solutions for the 
alioth benchmarks, answering questions on IRC, administering/maintaing 
clojure.org, clojure.com, assemble, confluence, mycroft, etc."

I guess what I'm saying is, at the end of the day: Let's add documentation to 
the list, but also add some other obviously fun projects and see what kind of 
proposals we receive. It doesn't mean we need to accept them, it just shows 
(IMO) we're very open minded about people who are passionate about building 
what /they/ care about, not necessarily what we care about. If some musician in 
grad school submitted a proposal to make an album exclusively with Overtone and 
published the source that would be a boon to the Overtone project IMO. If a 
sophomore in college wants to build some crazy parallelized Rube Goldberg 
machine with Clojure then I think we should at least entertain the idea of it. 
More than anything, I think we need to present the people who *might* do 
something like that with the face of a community that would genuinely 
appreciate it. I've met many of you personally, so I hardly think that's a 
stretch for us.

This is getting really long so I apologize, but I'd like to offer up a bit of 
personal experience w/r/t GSoC:
I did GSoC years ago for Plan9 (Inferno-OS specifically). I was not very 
familiar with their community, and I doubt many people have ever read a book 
about programming Limbo. As a result, a lot of the ideas that were listed were 
strangely specific from my limited undergrad perspective. I was interested in 
learning about Plan9 and contributing, not necessarily learning Plan9 to make a 
distributed authentication system that someone else wanted for reasons that 
were unknown to me and/or were not well described in the description. As a 
result, keep in mind that we will potentially have people submitting proposals 
to write Skynet 1.0 in 3 months who are doing their undergrad and may have only 
just had an introduction to lisp or scheme. Last note (I promise) is: potential 
mentors, this is not a small commitment. Trust me on that. It's as much your 
responsibility to steer someone toward success as it is theirs.


Regards,
'(Devin Walters)


On Monday, February 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Cedric Greevey wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Yakushev
> mailto:yakushev.a...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > On Feb 28, 12:59 am, Cedric Greevey http://gmail.com)> 
> > wrote:
> > > ...
> >  
> >  
> > Ok, I got the idea now and I for sure understand your frustration with
> > Emacs. Emacs is definitely not for the weak of spirit (it's not a pun
> > in any way, I just compare your words to my own beginner's
> > experiences) requiring you to learn, google and hack a lot to make of
> > it an editor you want to use
> >  
>  
>  
> Hm. It might not be *quite* as bad nowadays, since now we a) have
> google and b) would probably be running Emacs (or

Re: [ANN] cld 0.1.0 - Clojure Language Detection

[Alex Ott]

similar functionality is also available in clj-tika
(https://github.com/alexott/clj-tika, and clojars) - you can detect
language, mime-type of data & extract text

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:24 AM, Lee Hinman  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm pleased to announce the initial 0.1.0 release of cld (Clojure
> Language Detection). CLD a tiny library wrapping language-detect[1]
> that can be used to determine the language of a particular piece of
> text very quickly. You should be able to use it from Clojars[2] with
> the following:
>
> [cld "0.1.0"]
>
> Please give it a try and open any issues on the github repo[3] that
> you find. Check out the readme for the full information and usage.
>
> Also soliciting better names for the project than 'cld' :)
>
> thanks,
> Lee Hinman
>
> [1]: https://code.google.com/p/language-detection/
> [2]: http://clojars.org/cld
> [2]: https://github.com/dakrone/cld
>
> --
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Tiwtter: alexott_en (English), alexott (Russian)
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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[David Nolen]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Daniel Barlow  wrote:

> I'd suggest that it's a continuum not a dichotomy, but one convenient
> place to draw an arbitrary line is whether you think it sane and sensible
> to use debugging facilities designed for the target language or whether you
> view that as akin to debugging a c program by inspecting the disassembly.
>
> (of course, if your view is that debugging a c program is *per se* not
> sane or sensible, that analogy is of course not a good one)
>
Debugging both CoffeeScript and ClojureScript requires knowing JavaScript.
I haven't found debugging either particularly pleasant. I'm very
interesting in seeing real debugging support from the ClojureScript
compiler.

David

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Re: lazy-sequences and memory leaks

[Sunil S Nandihalli]

thank you ..
some times it is hard to come up with good names .. suggestions welcome ..
:)
Sunil.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:

> >  I am using lazy-seqs to join two very large csv files. I am very certain
> > that I am not holding on to any of the heads and If I did .. the jvm
> would
> > be out of memory far sooner than what I am seeing currently. The size of
> the
> > file is something like 73 G and the Ram allocated to the jvm is about 8G
> .
> > It seems like a very gradual leak. Has anybody else encountered similar
> > problems? In case some of you feel that my code might be the culprit, the
> > following gist has the source.
>
> OT, but I hereby nominate
>
> `lazy-join-sorted-map-seqs-with-only-second-map-seq-allowed-to-have-duplicate-fields`
> as the most awesome fn name of the decade ;-)
>
> Regards,
> BG
>
> --
> Baishampayan Ghose
> b.ghose at gmail.com
>
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Re: lazy-sequences and memory leaks

[Sunil S Nandihalli]

I would like to hear what you may have to say regarding this. As always.. I
pressed send sooner than I wanted to..

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Sunil S Nandihalli <
sunil.nandiha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Everybody,
>  I am using lazy-seqs to join two very large csv files. I am very certain
> that I am not holding on to any of the heads and If I did .. the jvm would
> be out of memory far sooner than what I am seeing currently. The size of
> the file is something like 73 G and the Ram allocated to the jvm is about
> 8G . It seems like a very gradual leak. Has anybody else encountered
> similar problems? In case some of you feel that my code might be the
> culprit, the following gist has the source.
>
> https://gist.github.com/1929345
>
> Thanks,
> Sunil.
>

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Re: lazy-sequences and memory leaks

[Baishampayan Ghose]

>  I am using lazy-seqs to join two very large csv files. I am very certain
> that I am not holding on to any of the heads and If I did .. the jvm would
> be out of memory far sooner than what I am seeing currently. The size of the
> file is something like 73 G and the Ram allocated to the jvm is about 8G .
> It seems like a very gradual leak. Has anybody else encountered similar
> problems? In case some of you feel that my code might be the culprit, the
> following gist has the source.

OT, but I hereby nominate
`lazy-join-sorted-map-seqs-with-only-second-map-seq-allowed-to-have-duplicate-fields`
as the most awesome fn name of the decade ;-)

Regards,
BG

-- 
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b.ghose at gmail.com

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lazy-sequences and memory leaks

[Sunil S Nandihalli]

Hi Everybody,
 I am using lazy-seqs to join two very large csv files. I am very certain
that I am not holding on to any of the heads and If I did .. the jvm would
be out of memory far sooner than what I am seeing currently. The size of
the file is something like 73 G and the Ram allocated to the jvm is about
8G . It seems like a very gradual leak. Has anybody else encountered
similar problems? In case some of you feel that my code might be the
culprit, the following gist has the source.

https://gist.github.com/1929345

Thanks,
Sunil.

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Re: Bret Victor's live editable game in ClojureScript

[Damien Lepage]

Awesome! Thanks for putting this together.
I don't know if the most impressive is the end result or the little time
you needed to code it.
Both are mind blowing.


2012/2/27 Base 

> Agreed.  Pretty damn sweet!
>
> On Feb 27, 6:01 pm, John Szakmeister  wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Chris Granger 
> wrote:
> > > Hey folks,
> >
> > > In reference to the previous thread on "Inventing On Principle", I
> > > built a ClojureScript example of his live editable game :)
> >
> > >http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/02/26/connecting-to-your-creation/
> >
> > > Enjoy!
> >
> > Nice!  You rock!
> >
> > -John
>
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@damienlepage 
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Re: [ANN] cld 0.1.0 - Clojure Language Detection

[Devin Walters]

Cool. Time to get my cores to work extracting from pastebins. :)

'(Devin Walters)

On Feb 27, 2012, at 8:24 PM, Lee Hinman  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm pleased to announce the initial 0.1.0 release of cld (Clojure
> Language Detection). CLD a tiny library wrapping language-detect[1]
> that can be used to determine the language of a particular piece of
> text very quickly. You should be able to use it from Clojars[2] with
> the following:
> 
> [cld "0.1.0"]
> 
> Please give it a try and open any issues on the github repo[3] that
> you find. Check out the readme for the full information and usage.
> 
> Also soliciting better names for the project than 'cld' :)
> 
> thanks,
> Lee Hinman
> 
> [1]: https://code.google.com/p/language-detection/
> [2]: http://clojars.org/cld
> [2]: https://github.com/dakrone/cld
> 
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[ANN] cld 0.1.0 - Clojure Language Detection

[Lee Hinman]

Hi all,
I'm pleased to announce the initial 0.1.0 release of cld (Clojure
Language Detection). CLD a tiny library wrapping language-detect[1]
that can be used to determine the language of a particular piece of
text very quickly. You should be able to use it from Clojars[2] with
the following:

[cld "0.1.0"]

Please give it a try and open any issues on the github repo[3] that
you find. Check out the readme for the full information and usage.

Also soliciting better names for the project than 'cld' :)

thanks,
Lee Hinman

[1]: https://code.google.com/p/language-detection/
[2]: http://clojars.org/cld
[2]: https://github.com/dakrone/cld

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Yakushev
 wrote:
> On Feb 28, 12:59 am, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>> ...
>
> Ok, I got the idea now and I for sure understand your frustration with
> Emacs. Emacs is definitely not for the weak of spirit (it's not a pun
> in any way, I just compare your words to my own beginner's
> experiences) requiring you to learn, google and hack a lot to make of
> it an editor you want to use

Hm. It might not be *quite* as bad nowadays, since now we a) have
google and b) would probably be running Emacs (or connecting to it) in
an emulated terminal in a desktop window with other, more familiar
tools available alongside it, instead of being at a green-glowing
terminal display without any of those resources ...

Still sounds like more startup work for the newbie than basing it off
another IDE, especially if by "another IDE" is meant "clooj". :)

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Re: Bret Victor's live editable game in ClojureScript

[Base]

Agreed.  Pretty damn sweet!

On Feb 27, 6:01 pm, John Szakmeister  wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Chris Granger  wrote:
> > Hey folks,
>
> > In reference to the previous thread on "Inventing On Principle", I
> > built a ClojureScript example of his live editable game :)
>
> >http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/02/26/connecting-to-your-creation/
>
> > Enjoy!
>
> Nice!  You rock!
>
> -John

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Re: Bret Victor's live editable game in ClojureScript

[John Szakmeister]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Chris Granger  wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> In reference to the previous thread on "Inventing On Principle", I
> built a ClojureScript example of his live editable game :)
>
> http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/02/26/connecting-to-your-creation/
>
> Enjoy!

Nice!  You rock!

-John

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Alexander Yakushev]

On Feb 28, 12:59 am, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
> ...

Ok, I got the idea now and I for sure understand your frustration with
Emacs. Emacs is definitely not for the weak of spirit (it's not a pun
in any way, I just compare your words to my own beginner's
experiences) requiring you to learn, google and hack a lot to make of
it an editor you want to use (while you can use Eclipse pretty much
out-of-the-box without touching any configuration whatsoever). But
that's not the point I wish to discuss anymore, we had already gotten
too far away from the original topic.

In order to make our discussion somehow productive I propose you to
update the project list on Confluence with ideas for your Clojure IDE
(CCW, Enclojure or something else) improvements. I'm sure you can name
a list of things you want to be improved and there possibly are people
who would like to work on this feature during GSOC.

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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[Daniel Barlow]

I'd suggest that it's a continuum not a dichotomy, but one convenient place
to draw an arbitrary line is whether you think it sane and sensible to use
debugging facilities designed for the target language or whether you view
that as akin to debugging a c program by inspecting the disassembly.

(of course, if your view is that debugging a c program is *per se* not sane
or sensible, that analogy is of course not a good one)
On Feb 27, 2012 6:48 PM, "David Nolen"  wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Raju Bitter wrote:
>
>> >> How about "ClojureScript is a little language that compiles into
>> >> JavaScript"? ;)
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, ClojureScript is not little the way that CoffeeScript is -
>> > ClojureScript comes with cljs.core.
>>
>> Exactly, ClojureScript has it's own semantics instead of just being
>> syntactic sugar.
>
>
> Well, CoffeeScript has it own semantics as well - scope, class syntax,
> expression oriented come to mind.
>
> David
>
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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:
> Alexander Yakushev  writes:
>
>> On Feb 27, 10:00 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>>> The emacs learning curve is more like a vertical cliff face than a
>>> ladder with lots of small steps...
>>
>> I still don't get the point you are trying to bring.
>
> Feeding the troll just makes things worse.
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
>
> -Phil Hagelberg, on behalf of the list denizens with finely-tuned killfiles

Responding to someone's reasoned concerns with name-calling just makes
things worse.

Thanks for your consideration.

-Cedric Greevey, on behalf of the list denizens who prefer meaningful
discussions to mud-slinging.

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Alexander Yakushev
 wrote:
> On Feb 27, 10:00 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>> The emacs learning curve is more like a vertical cliff face than a
>> ladder with lots of small steps...
>
> I still don't get the point you are trying to bring.
> Is it "You can't be productive with Emacs"? If so then you are wrong
> and because Clojure developers prove otherwise.
> Or is it "You can't teach a new user to use Emacs effectively"? Once
> again I don't think this to be true, noone is born with Emacs
> shortcuts in his spinal cord.
>
> Please explain you position so I can take a better look from your
> perspective.

It is, of course, neither of those things. Instead, it is "An
autodidact cannot quickly learn to use Emacs"; also, "a new user will
be frustrated trying to learn Emacs, particularly unassisted". Both
mean that an Emacs newbie cannot, under normal circumstances, expect
to be productive very quickly, not the way they could be in, say,
clooj or Enclojure.

This, in turn, appears to make "novice-friendly" and "Emacs-based"
mutually exclusive, where by "novice" is meant "not a pre-existing
Emacs user, perhaps among other things".

As for the vertical cliff face specifically, the cause (based on my
own attempts to use it on some Unix system some time ago) seems to be
the way Emacs doesn't do *one single thing* in common with *any*
popular software user interface. It's a nearly perfect circle of
protection from newbies getting a grip on it. On the one hand, many
basic editing functions have different and unguessable key bindings.
OK, no problem, right? There's help, even a tutorial, etc. But when
you open the help, it opens by the Emacs editor splitting down the
middle, inside of Emacs, rather than as a separate thing. And because
it's inside Emacs, the help's got idiosyncratic key bindings of its
own. The complete newbie will have no clue how to (or even if they
can) search it (no perceived affordances, in HCI-speak) and will have
to scroll up and down skimming the text to find stuff. Of course, then
there's the final plate in the newbie-proofing armor: once you've
found the section on how to do X (say, paste, or even save and quit),
now you need to get the input focus out of the help side of the
display and back to the side with your text file in order to actually
do it. Only problem is, the obvious (alt-tab, control-tab) of course
don't work and so you can't get back without scrolling around in the
help file some more, to find out how to switch the input focus between
panes.

The final straw will be when you discover that you *can't have the
input focus in the editor with the how-to-do-X instructions displayed
in the help pane*. Either the input focus is in the editor but the
how-to-switch-panes instructions are in the help pane, or the
how-to-do-X instructions are in the help pane but the input focus is
in the help pane. The only way to get to the editor and do X requires
you to either memorize the how-to-do-X instructions, navigate to the
how-to-switch-panes instructions, switch panes, and then do X, or
memorize the how-to-switch-panes instructions, navigate to the
how-to-do-X instructions, switch panes, and then do X. And remember
how to switch panes again when the time comes to now dredge up the
help on how to do Y.

The problem is that both require keeping one set of instructions
memorized *while finding, reading, and performing the other*, which
will tend to cause you to forget the first set, due to the limited
size of human working memory. If even one of the things (say, how to
switch panes) was second-nature from repeated use (like alt-tab
already will be), this wouldn't be an issue, but since *every single
thing* is done differently in Emacs, *none* of them will be
second-nature to a new user, and with the above effect resulting from
that, the new user cannot get anything nontrivial done until at least
a few of these things are second-nature, which point they won't get to
until they have spent a while using Emacs to get things done, which is
a clear Catch-22.

Basically, just to do common editing tasks will require you to
actually *take written notes*, or at least use a separate open
Notepad/whatever window in your operating system, and if you're going
to use Notepad (or even pencil and paper!) why are you not just using
Notepad instead of Emacs? It gets to be a "what's the point" sort of
thing.

(And it used to be even worse, or so I hear, back in the 70s or 80s.
No arrow keys, so even scrolling in the help couldn't be done in an
"obvious" way even to find out how to scroll in the help; and no
"press  for help" status-line or whatever right after
startup, so if you even got the help to display at all, it was by
sheer accident and/or button-mashing, and you were damned if you knew
how to make it happen again.)

Now, in theory, learning how to use, say, Windows has the same initial
cliff-face hurdle. Once you know alt-tab, you can have help open to
anything alongside an

Re: Disable colored output

[Laurent PETIT]

AFAICT, the lazytest maven plugin launches tests in a separate JVM:
https://github.com/stuartsierra/lazytest/blob/master/modules/lazytest-maven-plugin/src/main/java/com/stuartsierra/lazytest/AbstractLazytestMojo.java#L190

and only propages System environment variables:
https://github.com/stuartsierra/lazytest/blob/master/modules/lazytest-maven-plugin/src/main/java/com/stuartsierra/lazytest/AbstractLazytestMojo.java#L182

but not System properties:
https://github.com/stuartsierra/lazytest/blob/master/modules/lazytest-maven-plugin/src/main/java/com/stuartsierra/lazytest/AbstractLazytestMojo.java#L143

So indeed the -Dfoo=bar maven/java way of passing properties will not work
out of the box

2012/2/27 Rob Lally 

> I'm reasonably sure that with maven you can pass system properties using
> the form
>
>mvn goalname -Dinsert.property.here=true
>
> R.
>
>
> On 27 Feb 2012, at 17:54, Vladimir Matveev wrote:
>
> > Thank you again, I will try to look harder for it.
> >
> > On Feb 27, 5:46 pm, Stuart Sierra  wrote:
> >> Sorry, Vladimir, I don't have an answer for you right now. I'm sure
> there's
> >> a way to set system properties in Maven, but I don't have the relevant
> >> documentation at hand.
> >>
> >> -S
> >
> > --
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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Phil Hagelberg]

Alexander Yakushev  writes:

> On Feb 27, 10:00 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>> The emacs learning curve is more like a vertical cliff face than a
>> ladder with lots of small steps...
>
> I still don't get the point you are trying to bring.

Feeding the troll just makes things worse.

Thanks for your consideration.

-Phil Hagelberg, on behalf of the list denizens with finely-tuned killfiles

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Alexander Yakushev]

On Feb 27, 10:00 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
> The emacs learning curve is more like a vertical cliff face than a
> ladder with lots of small steps...

I still don't get the point you are trying to bring.
Is it "You can't be productive with Emacs"? If so then you are wrong
and because Clojure developers prove otherwise.
Or is it "You can't teach a new user to use Emacs effectively"? Once
again I don't think this to be true, noone is born with Emacs
shortcuts in his spinal cord.

Please explain you position so I can take a better look from your
perspective.

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Re: Disable colored output

[Rob Lally]

I'm reasonably sure that with maven you can pass system properties using the 
form

mvn goalname -Dinsert.property.here=true

R.


On 27 Feb 2012, at 17:54, Vladimir Matveev wrote:

> Thank you again, I will try to look harder for it.
> 
> On Feb 27, 5:46 pm, Stuart Sierra  wrote:
>> Sorry, Vladimir, I don't have an answer for you right now. I'm sure there's
>> a way to set system properties in Maven, but I don't have the relevant
>> documentation at hand.
>> 
>> -S
> 
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Bret Victor's live editable game in ClojureScript

[Chris Granger]

Hey folks,

In reference to the previous thread on "Inventing On Principle", I
built a ClojureScript example of his live editable game :)

http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/02/26/connecting-to-your-creation/

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Chris.

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Alexander Yakushev
 wrote:
> On Feb 27, 9:13 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>>
>> Whoa, hold your horses. Aren't "Decent" and "Emacs-based" mutually-exclusive?
>
> No, they are not.
>
>> "Novice-friendly" and "Emacs-based" definitely are.
>
> Well, if we are considering a novice in software development then you
> are probably right. I was particularly talking about new users of
> Clojure. A seasoned developer can get acquainted with Emacs pretty
> easily and fast. Perhaps without the hairloss you described.
>
>> Sorry, but this is probably a nonstarter...
>
> It could be, it could be not. After all I suppose the biggest part of
> the Clojure community still uses Emacs and I see a constant growth of
> reasons to it. CDT which I had not heard of until recently is a tool
> of a great usability improvement. This means that Emacs still matters
> for Clojure developers. And I don't think this is where you should
> apply a strict dichotomy between the hairy dudes stuck in middle ages
> with Emacs and all others who are used to common principles of Eclipse/
> VS/etc. The usability is not 0 or 1, it is a ladder with lots of small
> steps. The higher you get the more users you have.

The emacs learning curve is more like a vertical cliff face than a
ladder with lots of small steps...

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Alexander Yakushev]

On Feb 27, 9:13 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>
> Whoa, hold your horses. Aren't "Decent" and "Emacs-based" mutually-exclusive?

No, they are not.

> "Novice-friendly" and "Emacs-based" definitely are.

Well, if we are considering a novice in software development then you
are probably right. I was particularly talking about new users of
Clojure. A seasoned developer can get acquainted with Emacs pretty
easily and fast. Perhaps without the hairloss you described.

> Sorry, but this is probably a nonstarter...

It could be, it could be not. After all I suppose the biggest part of
the Clojure community still uses Emacs and I see a constant growth of
reasons to it. CDT which I had not heard of until recently is a tool
of a great usability improvement. This means that Emacs still matters
for Clojure developers. And I don't think this is where you should
apply a strict dichotomy between the hairy dudes stuck in middle ages
with Emacs and all others who are used to common principles of Eclipse/
VS/etc. The usability is not 0 or 1, it is a ladder with lots of small
steps. The higher you get the more users you have.

However thank you for the comment, I'm still susceptible to choosing
another project.

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Re: Parsing NMON data (CSV)

[meteorfox]

Thanks for the suggestion but I'm already using it to parse it, it's
really simple to use.

What I really meant is, what could be a good library for making graphs
based on sampled data?.

Suppose I have the following

, , , 
, , , 
... etc.


On Feb 27, 1:02 pm, David Santiago  wrote:
> One library you could use is one I wrote called Clojure-CSV, which you
> can find athttp://github.com/davidsantiago/clojure-csv. If you have
> any questions, feel free to email me or message me on github.
>
>    David
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 3:33 PM, meteorfox
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm interested in creating graphs for NMON data which is essentially a
> > csv file. Which library can you recommend for this kind of task?
>
> > Here's a brief sample of the data I need to parse in..
>
> > AAA,progname,nmon_x86_64_fedora16
> > AAA,command,./nmon_x86_64_fedora16 -f -s 30 -c 60
> > AAA,version,14g
> > AAA,disks_per_line,150
> > AAA,max_disks,256,set by -d option
> > AAA,disks,9,
> > AAA,host,sandybridge
> > AAA,user,meteorfox
> > AAA,OS,Linux,3.2.6-3.fc16.x86_64,#1 SMP Mon Feb 13 20:35:42 UTC
> > 2012,x86_64
> > AAA,runname,sandybridge
> > AAA,time,22:18.50
> > AAA,date,24-FEB-2012
> > AAA,interval,30
> > AAA,snapshots,60
> > AAA,cpus,8
> > AAA,proc_stat_variables,8
> > AAA,note0, Warning - use the UNIX sort command to order this file
> > before loading into a spreadsheet
> > AAA,note1, The First Column is simply to get the output sorted in the
> > right order
> > AAA,note2, The T0001-T column is a snapshot number. To work out
> > the actual time; see the ZZZ section at the end
> > CPU001,CPU 1 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU002,CPU 2 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU003,CPU 3 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU004,CPU 4 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU005,CPU 5 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU006,CPU 6 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU007,CPU 7 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU008,CPU 8 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> > CPU_ALL,CPU Total sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%,Busy,CPUs
> > 
>
> > Thanks
> > Carlos Torres
>
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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Alexander Yakushev
 wrote:
> I post the following proposal here because I'm not sure I've done it
> right. It would be interesting for me and may be for someone else.
>
> Decent Emacs-based Clojure IDE

Whoa, hold your horses. Aren't "Decent" and "Emacs-based" mutually-exclusive?

> Brief explanation:
> Clojure has a critical need for a good novice-friendly IDE.

"Novice-friendly" and "Emacs-based" definitely are.

Sorry, but this is probably a nonstarter...

> Expected results:
> Emacs that acts as a Clojure IDE on a level how Eclipse handles Java

Actual results: a large spike in ibuprofen sales at area pharmacies. :)

The problem is the Emacs UI-paradigm. It's so completely at odds with
what have become defacto industry standards (exemplified by Windows,
MacOS Toolkit GUI, Swing, Gnome, KDE) that there's basically no way to
sugar it up into something novice-friendly, or even just something
that won't have the novice ripping out his hair and banging his head
against sturdy objects struggling to make it behave the way it
"should" when he tries to select, copy, paste, move, deselect,
replace, etc.

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[David Nolen]

Added

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Alexander Yakushev  wrote:

> I post the following proposal here because I'm not sure I've done it
> right. It would be interesting for me and may be for someone else.
>
> Decent Emacs-based Clojure IDE
>
> Brief explanation:
> Clojure has a critical need for a good novice-friendly IDE.
> Counterclockwise certainly has its advantages but Emacs is just too
> good "Lisp IDE" to ignore that fact. Things like Slime/Swank, CDT
> (http://georgejahad.com/clojure/cdt.html), Paredit being already
> developed greatly simplify the creation of a very functional IDE. What
> is required is to bring them altogether, write glue code from
> different sides (both Emacs and the above-mentioned tools) and provide
> a click-and-go distribution (both in the form of an Emacs "meta"
> plugin and a complete Emacs for Clojure build). More specific ideas
> for the beginning:
> - better Emacs-CDT integration - visible breakpoints, understandable
> distinction between program and debug REPLs (something like Eclipse
> perspectives may be useful)
> - better Emacs-lein integration - something like package-list-packages
> for clojars might be awesome when choosing dependencies for a project.
> - better project experience - bolster the feeling of working with a
> specific project rather than a bunch of files (can take some CEDET
> stuff for this).
> - better immersion experience - docs, guides, screencasts - the usual
> kind of new users support.
>
> Expected results:
> Emacs that acts as a Clojure IDE on a level how Eclipse handles Java
>
> Knowledge Prerequisite:
> Familiarity with Clojure and Clojure/Emacs development tools.
> Familiarity with Emacs Lisp.
>
> What do you think? I have a feeling that it's too much for one person
> but if wisely split it could be a feasible task.
>
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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Alexander Yakushev]

I post the following proposal here because I'm not sure I've done it
right. It would be interesting for me and may be for someone else.

Decent Emacs-based Clojure IDE

Brief explanation:
Clojure has a critical need for a good novice-friendly IDE.
Counterclockwise certainly has its advantages but Emacs is just too
good "Lisp IDE" to ignore that fact. Things like Slime/Swank, CDT
(http://georgejahad.com/clojure/cdt.html), Paredit being already
developed greatly simplify the creation of a very functional IDE. What
is required is to bring them altogether, write glue code from
different sides (both Emacs and the above-mentioned tools) and provide
a click-and-go distribution (both in the form of an Emacs "meta"
plugin and a complete Emacs for Clojure build). More specific ideas
for the beginning:
- better Emacs-CDT integration - visible breakpoints, understandable
distinction between program and debug REPLs (something like Eclipse
perspectives may be useful)
- better Emacs-lein integration - something like package-list-packages
for clojars might be awesome when choosing dependencies for a project.
- better project experience - bolster the feeling of working with a
specific project rather than a bunch of files (can take some CEDET
stuff for this).
- better immersion experience - docs, guides, screencasts - the usual
kind of new users support.

Expected results:
Emacs that acts as a Clojure IDE on a level how Eclipse handles Java

Knowledge Prerequisite:
Familiarity with Clojure and Clojure/Emacs development tools.
Familiarity with Emacs Lisp.

What do you think? I have a feeling that it's too much for one person
but if wisely split it could be a feasible task.

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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[David Nolen]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Raju Bitter wrote:

> >> How about "ClojureScript is a little language that compiles into
> >> JavaScript"? ;)
> >
> >
> > Well, ClojureScript is not little the way that CoffeeScript is -
> > ClojureScript comes with cljs.core.
>
> Exactly, ClojureScript has it's own semantics instead of just being
> syntactic sugar.


Well, CoffeeScript has it own semantics as well - scope, class syntax,
expression oriented come to mind.

David

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Re: Slime hack for REPL testing

[Nils Bertschinger]

Hi Stefan,

On Feb 27, 3:23 pm, Stefan Kamphausen  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> extracting forms from the REPL session into some test-magic definitely is
> useful.  However, my sessions seem to be structured in a different way and
> only having access to the previous three inputs doesn't seem viable to me.
> I think, I'd prefer a REPL where I would tell swank to start recording my
> stuff and later extract all the interactions which didn't yield an
> exception.  Mind, that this is just guessing what would feel right, though.

thanks for your thoughts. It is really the simplest solution that I
could think of and does not necessarily fit everyones workflow. I tend
to use very short snippets at the repl which are usually self
contained, i.e. do not depend on defined variables, but rely heavily
on *1, *2 as shortcuts to save typing. Up to now, I did not bother
much to make unit tests out of my repl experiments. This mode
hopefully improves on that ;-)

Best,

Nils

>
> Kind regards,
> Stefan

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Re: Bret Victor - Inventing on Principle

[Colin Yates]

Amazing.

The lesson for me (which has echoes of the 'hammock driven design' message) 
is that sometimes the best ideas come not from evolutions of existing 
answers but starting completely from scratch.  As techies, we sometimes (I 
think) restrict ourselves to improving our existing solutions which in 
effect restrict our solution space to our own (sometimes inferior) 
answers.  For example, I doubt any of his answers came as an improvement to 
existing IDEs - they are new creations.

Hmm - not sure I made that clear - I learnt a lesson anyway.  Excellent 
points and I certainly found the video inspiring.

Good link!

Col

On Friday, 24 February 2012 18:29:06 UTC, Damien wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> You may have seen this already, if not I believe it's worth investing 1h 
> of your life:
> http://vimeo.com/36579366 
>
> That's already a good candidate for the technical talk of the year, if not 
> the decade IMO.
> Ok, I'm getting a bit too enthusiastic here but this is so inspiring.
>
> After watching it, you can't help thinking that we have a whole new world 
> to invent.
> As a side note, you may start thinking that a REPL is not good enough. 
> - Personal message to Laurent Petit: please watch and start thinking about 
> CCW 1.0 ;o) -
> It also feels like ClojureScript is on the right path.
>
> But, most importantly, beyond any technical consideration, the last part 
> is a great life lesson.
>
> -- 
> Damien Lepage
> http://damienlepage.com
> @damienlepage 
> linkedin.com/in/damienlepage 
>
>
>  

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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[Raju Bitter]

>> How about "ClojureScript is a little language that compiles into
>> JavaScript"? ;)
>
>
> Well, ClojureScript is not little the way that CoffeeScript is -
> ClojureScript comes with cljs.core.

Exactly, ClojureScript has it's own semantics instead of just being
syntactic sugar.

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012: We need mentors!

[David Nolen]

Excellent!

I won't be at Clojure/West, so take the lead on the that! :)

David

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Daniel Solano Gomez wrote:

> On Mon Feb 27 12:08 2012, David Nolen wrote:
> > We need mentors as much as we need students.
> >
> > There are many great projects inside and outside of contrib. If you own a
> > project that could use documentation, new work, visual design,
> *anything*,
> > please consider taking the 5-10 minutes to write up a proposal idea here
> -
> > http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Google+Summer+of+Code+2012.
>
> I just added a few ideas.  On a related note, if Clojure gets accepted
> as a GSoC organisation, would it make sense to have a GSoC unsession at
> Clojure/West?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Daniel
>

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012: We need mentors!

[Daniel Solano Gomez]

On Mon Feb 27 12:08 2012, David Nolen wrote:
> We need mentors as much as we need students.
> 
> There are many great projects inside and outside of contrib. If you own a
> project that could use documentation, new work, visual design, *anything*,
> please consider taking the 5-10 minutes to write up a proposal idea here -
> http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Google+Summer+of+Code+2012.

I just added a few ideas.  On a related note, if Clojure gets accepted
as a GSoC organisation, would it make sense to have a GSoC unsession at
Clojure/West?

Sincerely,

Daniel


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Disable colored output

[Vladimir Matveev]

Thank you again, I will try to look harder for it.

On Feb 27, 5:46 pm, Stuart Sierra  wrote:
> Sorry, Vladimir, I don't have an answer for you right now. I'm sure there's
> a way to set system properties in Maven, but I don't have the relevant
> documentation at hand.
>
> -S

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ClojureScript 0.0-993 released

[Stuart Sierra]

ClojureScript release 0.0-993
===

List of changes since the last release:
http://build.clojure.org/job/clojurescript-release/8/

ClojureScript version 0.0-993 has been released to oss.sonatype.org and 
will be sync'd to the Maven Central repository within 24 hours.
See http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Maven+Settings+and+Repositories for 
an explanation of repositories.



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Re: Parsing NMON data (CSV)

[David Santiago]

One library you could use is one I wrote called Clojure-CSV, which you
can find at http://github.com/davidsantiago/clojure-csv. If you have
any questions, feel free to email me or message me on github.

   David

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 3:33 PM, meteorfox
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in creating graphs for NMON data which is essentially a
> csv file. Which library can you recommend for this kind of task?
>
> Here's a brief sample of the data I need to parse in..
>
> AAA,progname,nmon_x86_64_fedora16
> AAA,command,./nmon_x86_64_fedora16 -f -s 30 -c 60
> AAA,version,14g
> AAA,disks_per_line,150
> AAA,max_disks,256,set by -d option
> AAA,disks,9,
> AAA,host,sandybridge
> AAA,user,meteorfox
> AAA,OS,Linux,3.2.6-3.fc16.x86_64,#1 SMP Mon Feb 13 20:35:42 UTC
> 2012,x86_64
> AAA,runname,sandybridge
> AAA,time,22:18.50
> AAA,date,24-FEB-2012
> AAA,interval,30
> AAA,snapshots,60
> AAA,cpus,8
> AAA,proc_stat_variables,8
> AAA,note0, Warning - use the UNIX sort command to order this file
> before loading into a spreadsheet
> AAA,note1, The First Column is simply to get the output sorted in the
> right order
> AAA,note2, The T0001-T column is a snapshot number. To work out
> the actual time; see the ZZZ section at the end
> CPU001,CPU 1 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU002,CPU 2 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU003,CPU 3 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU004,CPU 4 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU005,CPU 5 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU006,CPU 6 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU007,CPU 7 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU008,CPU 8 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
> CPU_ALL,CPU Total sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%,Busy,CPUs
> 
>
> Thanks
> Carlos Torres
>
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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[David Nolen]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:

> Devin Walters  writes:
>
> > Some seeds for project ideas:
> > - documentation
> > - clooj
> > - clojars
> > - leiningen
>
> If I had any big ideas for Leiningen I don't think I could wait until
> the summer to implement them... but I would be happy to help mentor for
> Clojars.
>
> -Phil


Great!

David

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Phil Hagelberg]

Devin Walters  writes:

> Some seeds for project ideas:
> - documentation
> - clooj
> - clojars
> - leiningen

If I had any big ideas for Leiningen I don't think I could wait until
the summer to implement them... but I would be happy to help mentor for
Clojars.

-Phil

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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[David Nolen]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Cedric Greevey  wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Raju Bitter 
> wrote:
> > Thanks, Dan, and a good point you are making.
> >
> > Actually I have that information in the same paragraph, why it it is
> > important. The publishing company was discussing if ClojureScript is a
> > language, a scripting language, a compiler, etc. They had a tutorial
> > on CoffeeScript in the last edition, and CoffeeScript uses
> > "CoffeeScript is a little language that compiles into JavaScript." I'm
> > looking for the best equivalent of that sentence for ClojureScript.
>
> How about "ClojureScript is a little language that compiles into
> JavaScript"? ;)


Well, ClojureScript is not little the way that CoffeeScript is -
ClojureScript comes with cljs.core.

David

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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Raju Bitter  wrote:
> Thanks, Dan, and a good point you are making.
>
> Actually I have that information in the same paragraph, why it it is
> important. The publishing company was discussing if ClojureScript is a
> language, a scripting language, a compiler, etc. They had a tutorial
> on CoffeeScript in the last edition, and CoffeeScript uses
> "CoffeeScript is a little language that compiles into JavaScript." I'm
> looking for the best equivalent of that sentence for ClojureScript.

How about "ClojureScript is a little language that compiles into JavaScript"? ;)

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Google Summer of Code 2012: We need mentors!

[David Nolen]

We need mentors as much as we need students.

There are many great projects inside and outside of contrib. If you own a
project that could use documentation, new work, visual design, *anything*,
please consider taking the 5-10 minutes to write up a proposal idea here -
http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Google+Summer+of+Code+2012.

Thanks,
David

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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Andy Fingerhut]

Cedric:

At the bottom of the main clojuredocs.org page is the text below.  I've copied 
it here because perhaps the best way to get such changes made is to contribute 
changes to the code of the clojuredocs.org web site.  At the least, it would be 
good to open a case.  You'll have to go to the site for the actual links, which 
I don't think I've copied as links.

We're in Beta

We'll make every effort to keep these services up and bug-free, but no 
promises. If you'd like to take a look under the hood, ClojureDocs is split up 
across three repos: The site, the analyzer, and the api.

If you've got an itch to scratch then open up an issue, or fork away and send 
us a pull request.


Andy

On Feb 27, 2012, at 7:36 AM, Cedric Greevey wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Bill Caputo  wrote:
>> This is fantastic guys... thank you.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Particularly, you can see syntax-highlighted source in the same page
> now. Previously, if you clicked through to a function and clicked
> through to the source, it sent you to a github page that (usually)
> hung Firefox for a full minute with 100% CPU use before displaying the
> function source.
> 
> The syntax highlighting is a bit odd though. Symbols in operator
> position are either magenta (usually) or pale gray. The former
> includes most functions (some are black instead) and some macros, like
> lazy-seq and when-let. The latter includes all special forms and some
> macros, like let. The dividing lines are not clear -- macros can be
> either magenta or gray, and functions (including core functions) can
> be magenta or black (ex.: keep is black, first is magenta).
> 
> I'd suggest it should be core functions get pink, core macros and
> special forms get ... not light gray, probably, but something else.
> Orange seems to be unused. Non-core macros could be dark purple and
> non-core functions black.
> 
> Also, the dark blue on (mostly) delimiters might be made a bit
> lighter, to contrast better with black symbols commonly close by. The
> green for literals is fine, or maybe could be darkened slightly.
> 
> Incidentally, are all keywords dark blue, or is there some way it
> tells when they are basically syntax (for ... :when) and when they are
> basically data (assoc foo :bar baz)? One could heuristically do a
> pretty good job of separating the two cases by looking for the
> immediately enclosing form's operator to be a macro or a function, or
> at least a macro from a particular set of core macros (cond, for, ...)
> or not.
> 
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Re: Bret Victor - Inventing on Principle

[David Nolen]

Look Chris Granger (@ibdknox) has gone and put those ideas into action -
http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/02/26/connecting-to-your-creation/

Lovely stuff.

David

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Alex Miller  wrote:

> If you'd like to see Bret talk, he will be speaking at Strange Loop
> this year.
>
> St. Louis, Sept 23-25
>  http://thestrangeloop.com
>
> Alex
>
> On Feb 24, 12:29 pm, Damien Lepage  wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > You may have seen this already, if not I believe it's worth investing 1h
> of
> > your life:http://vimeo.com/36579366
> >
> > That's already a good candidate for the technical talk of the year, if
> not
> > the decade IMO.
> > Ok, I'm getting a bit too enthusiastic here but this is so inspiring.
> >
> > After watching it, you can't help thinking that we have a whole new world
> > to invent.
> > As a side note, you may start thinking that a REPL is not good enough.
> > - Personal message to Laurent Petit: please watch and start thinking
> about
> > CCW 1.0 ;o) -
> > It also feels like ClojureScript is on the right path.
> >
> > But, most importantly, beyond any technical consideration, the last part
> is
> > a great life lesson.
> >
> > --
> > Damien Lepagehttp://damienlepage.com
> > @damienlepage 
> > linkedin.com/in/damienlepage 
>
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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Andy Fingerhut]

You can get the Clojure source code that generates both the HTML and LaTeX for 
the cheatsheets at the "Download ZIP of all versions" link at the bottom of 
clojure.org/cheatsheet.  It includes color, grayscale, and black&white PDF 
files of the cheatsheet (those might be sloppy right now -- I haven't given the 
PDF versions as much attention as I could have while adding content).  I plan 
on getting them into a github repo soon, where people can look at it, fork it, 
make pull requests, etc.

>From least effort required to most, the options I am aware of are:

Create a free account on clojuredocs.org and edit away.  Instant gratification 
:-)  Because of this, you do need to take the examples there with a critical 
eye, but on average they are quite good.

Convince a Clojure contributor to make changes to doc strings, or to the docs 
hosted on clojure.org.  The best way to do that is to send a message to the 
Clojure group that is so compelling and obviously right that a Clojure 
contributor just drops everything else and starts making the change :-)  For 
the cheatsheet, a private message to me at andy_finger...@alum.wustl.edu is 
probably quickest, but I'm likely to perk up and take notice of messages on the 
Clojure group if they have a subject line with cheatsheet in it.

Sign a CA (Contributor Agreement) and make changes to doc strings or 
clojure.org yourself.  http://clojure.org/contributing

I will tell you that changes to core Clojure code, including the doc strings, 
is not a "quick hit" kind of change process the way editing clojuredocs.org is.

Andy

On Feb 27, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Alex Miller wrote:

> All of the links now point to clojuredocs, where anyone can add
> examples.
> 
> I'm not sure where Andy hosts the latex source and code to generate
> everything for the cheatsheet contents?
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 27, 7:57 am, Bill Caputo  wrote:
>> On Feb 27, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks to several people who provided feedback, especially Steve Miner, and 
>>> to Alex Miller for updating the web site yet again, there is a new 
>>> cheatsheet at:
>> 
>> This is fantastic guys... thank you. One question: if one wants to help out 
>> with docs, how best to get involved?
>> 
>> bill
> 
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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[Raju Bitter]

Thanks, Dan, and a good point you are making.

Actually I have that information in the same paragraph, why it it is
important. The publishing company was discussing if ClojureScript is a
language, a scripting language, a compiler, etc. They had a tutorial
on CoffeeScript in the last edition, and CoffeeScript uses
"CoffeeScript is a little language that compiles into JavaScript." I'm
looking for the best equivalent of that sentence for ClojureScript.

Best,
Raju

2012/2/27 Daniel Barlow :
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Raju Bitter 
> wrote:
>>
>> Quotes:
>> "ClojureScript is a dialect of Clojure that targets JavaScript as a
>> deployment platform."
>>
>> "ClojureScript allows to write code using the Clojure language and
>> compile it to Javascript."
>>
>> "ClojureScript is a new compiler for Clojure that targets JavaScript."
>
>
> All of these are (AFAIK anyway) entirely true and there's not much to choose
> between them.  The ClojureScript compiler compiles the ClojureScript
> language (a dialect of Clojure) into Javascript.
>
> This may not be exactly the input you're looking for, but IMO the key
> message you probably want to get across is "why is this important?".  It's
> important because it allows one to create rich web user interfaces by
> writing Clojure to be executed client-side in the user's web browser, and
> you've left that entirely implicit.  Focus on the benefits, not on the
> technology.
>
> -dan
>
> --
> d...@telent.net
> http://ww.telent.net
>
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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Alex Miller]

Done.

On Feb 27, 10:00 am, Brian Marick  wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>
> > Thanks to several people who provided feedback, especially Steve Miner, and 
> > to Alex Miller for updating the web site yet again, there is a new 
> > cheatsheet at:
>
> >http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>
> Excellent. Might be helpful to put 1.3 in the title. (I see that it's there 
> way down in the bottom.)
>
> -
> Brian Marick, Artisanal Labrador
> Now working athttp://path11.com
> Contract programming in Ruby and Clojure
> Occasional consulting on Agile

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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Alex Miller]

All of the links now point to clojuredocs, where anyone can add
examples.

I'm not sure where Andy hosts the latex source and code to generate
everything for the cheatsheet contents?



On Feb 27, 7:57 am, Bill Caputo  wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>
> > Thanks to several people who provided feedback, especially Steve Miner, and 
> > to Alex Miller for updating the web site yet again, there is a new 
> > cheatsheet at:
>
> This is fantastic guys... thank you. One question: if one wants to help out 
> with docs, how best to get involved?
>
> bill

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Re: Clojure 1.3.0 updated cheatsheet, and one with links to clojuredocs.org

[Alex Miller]

That's part of the site-wide template - afaik only the Organizer roles
(not me) have the ability to change it.  Those people are: Rich, Stu,
Tom Hickey, and Chris Redinger.

On Feb 15, 3:45 pm, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:
> Andy Fingerhut  writes:
> > Fogus, Alex Millier, and I have made some updates to the Clojure
> > cheatsheet for Clojure 1.3.0:
>
> >http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>
> Looks good. I did notice the copyright date in the footer is wrong though.
>
> -Phil

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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Brian Marick]

On Feb 27, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

> Thanks to several people who provided feedback, especially Steve Miner, and 
> to Alex Miller for updating the web site yet again, there is a new cheatsheet 
> at:
> 
> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet

Excellent. Might be helpful to put 1.3 in the title. (I see that it's there way 
down in the bottom.) 


-
Brian Marick, Artisanal Labrador
Now working at http://path11.com
Contract programming in Ruby and Clojure
Occasional consulting on Agile


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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Cedric Greevey]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Bill Caputo  wrote:
> This is fantastic guys... thank you.

Agreed.

Particularly, you can see syntax-highlighted source in the same page
now. Previously, if you clicked through to a function and clicked
through to the source, it sent you to a github page that (usually)
hung Firefox for a full minute with 100% CPU use before displaying the
function source.

The syntax highlighting is a bit odd though. Symbols in operator
position are either magenta (usually) or pale gray. The former
includes most functions (some are black instead) and some macros, like
lazy-seq and when-let. The latter includes all special forms and some
macros, like let. The dividing lines are not clear -- macros can be
either magenta or gray, and functions (including core functions) can
be magenta or black (ex.: keep is black, first is magenta).

I'd suggest it should be core functions get pink, core macros and
special forms get ... not light gray, probably, but something else.
Orange seems to be unused. Non-core macros could be dark purple and
non-core functions black.

Also, the dark blue on (mostly) delimiters might be made a bit
lighter, to contrast better with black symbols commonly close by. The
green for literals is fine, or maybe could be darkened slightly.

Incidentally, are all keywords dark blue, or is there some way it
tells when they are basically syntax (for ... :when) and when they are
basically data (assoc foo :bar baz)? One could heuristically do a
pretty good job of separating the two cases by looking for the
immediately enclosing form's operator to be a macro or a function, or
at least a macro from a particular set of core macros (cond, for, ...)
or not.

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Re: Slime hack for REPL testing

[Stefan Kamphausen]

Hi,

On Monday, February 27, 2012 2:52:56 PM UTC+1, Nils Bertschinger wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, 
>
> just finished a small hack for swank-clojure (see my fork on github: 
> github.com/bertschi/swank-clojure) 
>
[...] 

> Now, hit M-x slime-extract-test and this gets transformed into an 
> expression suitable for clojure.test 
>
>(is (= (concat (range 3) (range 7)) '(0 1 2 0 1 2 3 4 5 6))) 
>
> which is written into a "Testing" buffer. 
>
> What do you think? Any use for that? 
>
>
extracting forms from the REPL session into some test-magic definitely is 
useful.  However, my sessions seem to be structured in a different way and 
only having access to the previous three inputs doesn't seem viable to me.  
I think, I'd prefer a REPL where I would tell swank to start recording my 
stuff and later extract all the interactions which didn't yield an 
exception.  Mind, that this is just guessing what would feel right, though.

Kind regards,
Stefan

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Re: Question about this little method I wrote

[Bill Caputo]

Here's a version that uses destructuring (but is otherwise the same) that 
cleans it up a bit:
(defn combinations [[x & xs]]
 (if xs
 (for [frstitems x tlitm (combinations xs)]
 (flatten (list frstitems tlitm)))
 x))

On Feb 26, 2012, at 9:45 PM, Mike Ledoux wrote:

> (defn combinations [items]
>   (if (== (count items) 1)
>   (flatten items)
>   (for [frstitems (flatten (first items))
> tlitm (combinations (rest items))]
> (flatten (list frstitems tlitm)

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Re: Bret Victor - Inventing on Principle

[Alex Miller]

If you'd like to see Bret talk, he will be speaking at Strange Loop
this year.

St. Louis, Sept 23-25
 http://thestrangeloop.com

Alex

On Feb 24, 12:29 pm, Damien Lepage  wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> You may have seen this already, if not I believe it's worth investing 1h of
> your life:http://vimeo.com/36579366
>
> That's already a good candidate for the technical talk of the year, if not
> the decade IMO.
> Ok, I'm getting a bit too enthusiastic here but this is so inspiring.
>
> After watching it, you can't help thinking that we have a whole new world
> to invent.
> As a side note, you may start thinking that a REPL is not good enough.
> - Personal message to Laurent Petit: please watch and start thinking about
> CCW 1.0 ;o) -
> It also feels like ClojureScript is on the right path.
>
> But, most importantly, beyond any technical consideration, the last part is
> a great life lesson.
>
> --
> Damien Lepagehttp://damienlepage.com
> @damienlepage 
> linkedin.com/in/damienlepage 

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[David Nolen]

Clojure/core hasn't yet been accepted as an organization - and it might not
at all!

I have a feeling the more great ideas that students propose, the more
people step up as potential mentors - the more compelling it is to choose
an organization. So far we've seeded the proposal list with some mentor
ideas. However you might not find anything in this list interesting! So
propose something you're excited about :) This is a 100% community driven
effort.

The key component is some familiarity with Clojure. An ambitious student
with a background in Scheme, Common Lisp, Standard ML, Haskell, Scala,
Prolog, etc. would probably also do well.

David

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Devesh Mittal wrote:

> I am gonna take part in the Google Summer of Code'12 for the first time
> and I'm really interested to know how many Clojure based projects will/are
> supposed to be sponsored by the Google this year. Moreover , I would like
> to know the key components which require development in Clojure as a
> reference to any student interested in it.
> Any pointers in the right direction will be highly appreciated
> Regards
> Mittal
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Alexander Yakushev <
> yakushev.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So the application submiting procedure for organizations starts
>> tomorrow but sadly there isn't any word about it at least on
>> Confluence. There are willing mentors on the clojure-dev list and
>> ideas to submit but as far as I understood from the GSOC site an
>> organization must apply to host all these project ideas and
>> subsequently assign mentors.
>>
>> Here's how a mentoring organization should apply (may save some time):
>>
>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#mentoring_apply
>> .
>> Here's an example of the idea list for GSOC:
>> http://community.kde.org/GSoC/2011/Ideas
>>
>> Hopefully we will see Clojure as a mentoring organization for the
>> Clojure itself and third-party projects too. As you can see, there are
>> students who would like to jump in the development and Clojure
>> community could make use of them.
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: Clojure 1.3 updated cheatsheet with links to clojuredocs.org

[Bill Caputo]

On Feb 27, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

> Thanks to several people who provided feedback, especially Steve Miner, and 
> to Alex Miller for updating the web site yet again, there is a new cheatsheet 
> at:

This is fantastic guys... thank you. One question: if one wants to help out 
with docs, how best to get involved?


bill

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Slime hack for REPL testing

[Nils Bertschinger]

Hi everyone,

just finished a small hack for swank-clojure (see my fork on github:
github.com/bertschi/swank-clojure)
The repl thread now has access to the last three input forms that were
typed into the repl. These forms are accessible as **1, **2 and **3
respectively. The Common Lisp names +, ++ and +++ would not work in
Clojure and the output forms are numbered *1, *2 and *3, so this is
what I came up with.

Based on this functionality, I added the Emacs function slime-extract-
test. To explain what it does, here is an example. Imagine the
following repl interaction:

   user> (range 7)
   (0 1 2 3 4 5 6)

   user> (range 3)
   (0 1 2)

   user> (concat *1 *2)
   (0 1 2 0 1 2 3 4 5 6)

Now, hit M-x slime-extract-test and this gets transformed into an
expression suitable for clojure.test

   (is (= (concat (range 3) (range 7)) '(0 1 2 0 1 2 3 4 5 6)))

which is written into a "Testing" buffer.

What do you think? Any use for that?

Nils

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Re: Google Summer of Code 2012 - any mentors?

[Devesh Mittal]

I am gonna take part in the Google Summer of Code'12 for the first time and
I'm really interested to know how many Clojure based projects will/are
supposed to be sponsored by the Google this year. Moreover , I would like
to know the key components which require development in Clojure as a
reference to any student interested in it.
Any pointers in the right direction will be highly appreciated
Regards
Mittal

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Alexander Yakushev  wrote:

> So the application submiting procedure for organizations starts
> tomorrow but sadly there isn't any word about it at least on
> Confluence. There are willing mentors on the clojure-dev list and
> ideas to submit but as far as I understood from the GSOC site an
> organization must apply to host all these project ideas and
> subsequently assign mentors.
>
> Here's how a mentoring organization should apply (may save some time):
>
> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#mentoring_apply
> .
> Here's an example of the idea list for GSOC:
> http://community.kde.org/GSoC/2011/Ideas
>
> Hopefully we will see Clojure as a mentoring organization for the
> Clojure itself and third-party projects too. As you can see, there are
> students who would like to jump in the development and Clojure
> community could make use of them.
>
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Re: Disable colored output

[Stuart Sierra]

Sorry, Vladimir, I don't have an answer for you right now. I'm sure there's 
a way to set system properties in Maven, but I don't have the relevant 
documentation at hand.

-S

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Re: LCUG: 6th March 2012, Neale Swinnerton - Web apps in ClojureScript

[Kushal Pisavadia]

Just a reminder that this event is taking place next week (6th March) and 
you can sign up on the SkillsMatter website: 
http://skillsmatter.com/event/clojure/clojurescript

On Wednesday, 25 January 2012 23:33:03 UTC, Kushal Pisavadia wrote:
>
> The London Clojure UG have already got the next event lined up for you all!
>
> Many of you asked for a ClojureScript-related event in the feedback forms 
> and that's what we've got planned.
>
> *Format:*
> Using Clojure and ClojureScript, Neale will live build and update a 
> dynamic single-page web application using the ClojureScript One guide as a 
> starting point. There will be discussion along the way about how the 
> ClojureScript environment and tooling make development effective and fun!
>
> We've also got a lightning talk from Nick Rothwell on using Clojure to 
> build hybrid digital art.
>
> *Registration:*
> The event is happening on Tuesday 6th March 2012. You can register, and 
> find venue details, here: 
> http://skillsmatter.com/event/clojure/clojurescript and the Lanyrd page 
> is here: http://lanyrd.com/2012/ldnclj-clojurescript-one/
>
> We're always happy to talk to people interested in speaking at future 
> events. If you're you'd like to give a lightning talk or something a little 
> meatier please do get in contact with us, even if it's to throw around some 
> ideas that you have.
>
> Feel free to email myself at this address, or Bruce at bld [AT] otfrom.com. 
> We also post London-specific messages to http://groups.google.com/group/
> london-clojurians
> *
> *
> P.S. The talks are likely to be recorded and should be online a week after 
> the event, at the provided URLs above.
>

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Re: Disable colored output

[Vladimir Matveev]

Hi Stuart,

Thank you for your answer.

It seems that it isn't possible to specify properties when using
maven. I tried specifying property in my pom.xml in 
section and setting property on the command line - it's no good, the
output is still colorized. Shouldn't maven plugin have an option for
such thing?

On Feb 26, 7:31 pm, Stuart Sierra  wrote:
> Yes, you can disable ANSI colors by setting the Java system property
> "lazytest.colorize" to "false".
>
> -Stuart Sierra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:09:18 PM UTC-5, Vladimir Matveev wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I'm using IntelliJ IDEA to develop my clojure programs and I'm using
> > lazytest to test them. I'm also using maven and corresponding IDEA
> > plugin to manage my projects.
> > When I run lazytest:run goal using this plugin, the console window
> > shows console output of 'mvn lazytest:run' command, but since this is
> > regular text window it does not handle ANSI terminal codes, so I'm
> > getting something like this:
>
> >  [32m. [0m [32m. [0m [32m. [0m [32m. [0m [32m. [0m [32m. [0m [32m. [0m
> > Namespaces
> >     nc.commons.config.ConfigTest
> >         #'nc.commons.config.Config/set-config-property
> >              [32mshould correctly save different types of key-value
> > pairs in the map [0m
> >         #'nc.commons.config.Config/get-config-property
> >              [32mshould correctly load different types of key-value
> > pairs from the map [0m
> >     nc.commons.model.EntityTypeTest
> >         #'nc.commons.model.EntityType/entity-types -- the list of
> > entity types
> >              [32mshould contain only entity types with valid
> > references between them [0m
> >         #'nc.commons.model.EntityType/get-field-type applied to entity
> > types
> >              [32mshould return field type given entity type and field
> > name [0m
> >              [32mshould return nil if given entity type does not
> > contain provided field [0m
> >         #'nc.commons.model.EntityType/has-field? applied to entity
> > types
> >              [32mshould return true if entity type provided to it has
> > provided field [0m
> >              [32mshould return false if entity type provided to it
> > doesn't have provided field [0m
>
> > Ran 7 test cases.
> >  [32m0 failures. [0m
>
> > So, is it possible to disable colored output and switch to text-only
> > test completion marks?
>
> > Best regards,
> > Vladimir.

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Re: Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[Daniel Barlow]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:

> Quotes:
> "ClojureScript is a dialect of Clojure that targets JavaScript as a
> deployment platform."
>
> "ClojureScript allows to write code using the Clojure language and
> compile it to Javascript."
>
> "ClojureScript is a new compiler for Clojure that targets JavaScript."
>

All of these are (AFAIK anyway) entirely true and there's not much to
choose between them.  The ClojureScript compiler compiles the ClojureScript
language (a dialect of Clojure) into Javascript.

This may not be exactly the input you're looking for, but IMO the key
message you probably want to get across is "why is this important?".  It's
important because it allows one to create rich web user interfaces by
writing Clojure to be executed client-side in the user's web browser, and
you've left that entirely implicit.  Focus on the benefits, not on the
technology.

-dan

-- 
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http://ww.telent.net

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Slime hack for REPL testing

[Nils Bertschinger]

Hi everyone,

I just did a small hack for swank-clojure which has the repl thread
hold the last three input forms in variables **1, **2 and **3
respectively.
Based on this, I added a slime function slime-extract-test which does
the following:

user> (range 7)
   (0 1 2 3 4 5 6)

   user> (range 3)
   (0 1 2)

   user> (concat *1 *2)
   (0 1 2 0 1 2 3 4 5 6)

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Parsing NMON data (CSV)

[meteorfox]

Hi,

I'm interested in creating graphs for NMON data which is essentially a
csv file. Which library can you recommend for this kind of task?

Here's a brief sample of the data I need to parse in..

AAA,progname,nmon_x86_64_fedora16
AAA,command,./nmon_x86_64_fedora16 -f -s 30 -c 60
AAA,version,14g
AAA,disks_per_line,150
AAA,max_disks,256,set by -d option
AAA,disks,9,
AAA,host,sandybridge
AAA,user,meteorfox
AAA,OS,Linux,3.2.6-3.fc16.x86_64,#1 SMP Mon Feb 13 20:35:42 UTC
2012,x86_64
AAA,runname,sandybridge
AAA,time,22:18.50
AAA,date,24-FEB-2012
AAA,interval,30
AAA,snapshots,60
AAA,cpus,8
AAA,proc_stat_variables,8
AAA,note0, Warning - use the UNIX sort command to order this file
before loading into a spreadsheet
AAA,note1, The First Column is simply to get the output sorted in the
right order
AAA,note2, The T0001-T column is a snapshot number. To work out
the actual time; see the ZZZ section at the end
CPU001,CPU 1 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU002,CPU 2 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU003,CPU 3 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU004,CPU 4 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU005,CPU 5 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU006,CPU 6 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU007,CPU 7 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU008,CPU 8 sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%
CPU_ALL,CPU Total sandybridge,User%,Sys%,Wait%,Idle%,Busy,CPUs


Thanks
Carlos Torres

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Question about this little method I wrote

[Mike Ledoux]

So I recently decided to start learning Clojure.  I installed Clojure
box and wrote this little method to compute all possible combinations
of input:

 (defn combinations [items]
(if (== (count items) 1)
(flatten items)
(for [frstitems (flatten (first items))
  tlitm (combinations (rest items))]
  (flatten (list frstitems tlitm)

so (combinations [[1 2] [1 2]])

returns

((1 1) (1 2) (2 1) (2 2))

Is there a way I can get rid of the if form?  Having the if statement
duplicates what the for loop does when it creates frstitems.  I tried
removing the if statement so the function looks like:

 (defn combinations [items]
(for [frstitems (flatten (first items))
  tlitm (combinations (rest items))]
  (flatten (list frstitems tlitm

but when I do this the function just returns an empty list.  I tried
to figure out why using the REPL but did not discover the problem.

Is what I'm asking possible and if so what would the function look
like?   Thank you.

So far Clojure is pretty cool!

Mike

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Re: clj-webdriver: Clojure API for Selenium-WebDriver

[semperos]

Thanks to everyone for your kind words.

At this point, a number of folks have asked about how to organize larger 
test suites, or how better to compose the tools that clj-webdriver 
provides. I will try to focus my next round of development and 
documentation on that higher-level set of concerns. Feedback certainly 
welcome.

-Daniel

On Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:53:35 PM UTC-5, Devin Walters (devn) wrote:
>
> Nicely written library from what I can tell. Thanks for this. (inc) for 
> including a screencast and providing such great documentation. Looking 
> forward to using this in the future. 
>
> Cheers,
> '(Devin Walters)
>
> On Saturday, February 25, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Yan Aung wrote:
>
> Sweet! I'm excited to do browser testing again using this.
> Screencast is awesome. Thanks for putting it together.
> -Yan
>
> On Feb 18, 4:57 pm, semperos  wrote:
>
> Though this library has been in development for several months, I'd like to
> publicly announce the availability of clj-webdriver, a Clojure library for
> using web browsers from Clojure for the purposes of automated web testing
> (leveraging Selenium-WebDriver under the hood).
>
> I've released a brief screencast introducing
> clj-webdriver:
> http://blip.tv/semperos/introduction-to-clj-webdriver-taxi-api-5967872
>
> The current version is [clj-webdriver "0.6.0-alpha2"]. The project is 
> hosted
> on Github  with an extensive 
> wiki.
> Feedback welcome and pull requests encouraged!
>
> -Daniel
>
>
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>  
>  

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Re: partition-by where the subsequences are also lazy ..

[Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak)]

Hi,

well this depends on whether you keep the head of first group or not. 
Contrived example:

(let [s (lazy-partition-by )]
  [(first s) (next s)])

This would be a problem, since you keep the first group. With your version 
it would work as well as the underlying sequences are independent.

Meikel

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Re: partition-by where the subsequences are also lazy ..

[Sunil S Nandihalli]

Thanks Miekel. I can use the count version if it does not store the
previous subseq in memory.
Sunil.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak) 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> ah. Ok. I understand now your particular issue. Yes. Your approach is
> perfectly feasible. By paying the price of calling f multiple times for an
> element and realising each group twice you can make the two sequences
> (take-while and drop-while) independent and hence don't retain the head of
> the first group when realising the second group. With the count solution
> the first group would have been also realised and kept in memory. However
> since the take and drop are independent the first group is realised, but
> thrown away immediatelly.
>
> Your posted solution should work fine.
>
>
> Meikel
>
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Re: partition-by where the subsequences are also lazy ..

[Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak)]

Hi,

ah. Ok. I understand now your particular issue. Yes. Your approach is 
perfectly feasible. By paying the price of calling f multiple times for an 
element and realising each group twice you can make the two sequences 
(take-while and drop-while) independent and hence don't retain the head of 
the first group when realising the second group. With the count solution 
the first group would have been also realised and kept in memory. However 
since the take and drop are independent the first group is realised, but 
thrown away immediatelly. 

Your posted solution should work fine.

Meikel

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Re: partition-by where the subsequences are also lazy ..

[Sunil S Nandihalli]

Hi Meikel,
 Thanks for your response. This is in relation to something I am working
on. And for my problem,

1. Computation of f is very very cheap
2. The subsequences can be very large by themselves to the extent that it
may not fit in memory.
3. I don't mind the effort of waiting a little extra to avoid writing
un-composable code.

do you think my implementation will meet these requirements.

Thanks,
Sunil.

P.S>Basically I am just trying to join very large csv files which are
sorted on the key to be joined. There could be duplicates in the keys.


On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak) 
wrote:

> Hi Sunil,
>
> your version pays a price when f is expensive since it is applied twice.
> It is sufficient to wrap the drop into a lazy-seq.
>
> (shameless-self-promotion "
> http://kotka.de/blog/2011/04/Beauty_in_a_bug.html";)
>
> Meikel
>
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Re: partition-by where the subsequences are also lazy ..

[Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak)]

Hi Sunil,

your version pays a price when f is expensive since it is applied twice. It 
is sufficient to wrap the drop into a lazy-seq.

(shameless-self-promotion 
"http://kotka.de/blog/2011/04/Beauty_in_a_bug.html";)

Meikel

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Double-underscore error in deftype args (Clojure 1.3)

[cassiel]

Here's a simple protocol/deftype example:

(defprotocol FOO
  (doit [this]))

(deftype Foo [_arg]
  FOO
  (doit [this] nil))

(deftype Foo [__arg]
  FOO
  (doit [this] nil))

The first definition of Foo compiles; the second gives

(class: user/Foo, method: create signature: (Lclojure/lang/
IPersistentMap;)Luser/Foo;) Expecting to find unitialized object on
stack
  [Thrown class java.lang.VerifyError]

The failure is coming from java.lang.Class.forName(), but that's not
telling me very much (since it's not clear to me which class cannot be
instantiated, or why not).

Oh, and "unitialized" is a typo.

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Best definition of "ClojureScript" in one sentence

[Raju Bitter]

I'm working on a ClojureScript tutorial which will be published in a
German web/programming magazine next month. We had a discussion on how
"ClojureScript" could be best described. Is it a

a) a language or a scripting language
I'd clearly say language here.

b) dialect of Clojure (targeting the JavaScript platform)

c) JavaScript cross-compiler for Clojure

d) other ideas???

Something like "ClojureScript is a dialect of Clojure, which provides
a cross-compiler for the JavaScript platform, while taking advantage
of the powerful syntax of the Clojure language." - but I don't like
that sentence.

Quotes:
"ClojureScript is a dialect of Clojure that targets JavaScript as a
deployment platform."

"ClojureScript allows to write code using the Clojure language and
compile it to Javascript."

"ClojureScript is a new compiler for Clojure that targets JavaScript."

I'd be thankful for input/comments.

- Raju

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Clojure Propaganda, reaching out of the LISP niche market

[bernardH]

Hi,
I've been watching the Neal Ford video from Clojure/conj about World
Domination and thought about the propaganda part.
Clojure was sold to me as a practical Lisp on the JVM. This was good
because I had already decided to cure my parenthesophobia and the
contenders were Racket, Guile and Clojure.
However, I think it is also very important to reach people who do not
actively look for a language like Clojure (i.e. a Lisp) because most
people do not imagine what they miss with their current language of
choice.

As a result, I wanted to participate in very short rounds of
presentations where people get to hear about various 'exotic' (as in,
not java) languages. People with no prior interest into Clojure are
unlikely to attend to anything longer than a "lightning talk".
IMO, for this target, the biggest (only) barrier to entry is being a
LISP and I thought maybe it could (should?) not be put in the
forefront, but only after enticing would-be Clojure programmers with
all the other goodies. Catching them off guard with a casual "Oh, btw
it's a LISP" : I'd call it "sucker punch propaganda" ☺.
Of course, it would also be very important to :
 - sympathize with the first replusion wrt lack of syntactic clues,
lack of infix math operators and of emphasis on the function called.
 - explain how the language & ide reduce the pain
 - hint at the reason for this choice (i.e. power of macros)

Then we could challenge the audience not to give up on all the goodies
just because of an initial repulsion toward the syntax.

In hindsight, it just seem usual salesman strategy : show the
obviously good parts before introducing the pain points.

While I won't be showing this presentation, I'd be very interested to
hear any comment wrt to this strategy in general, and my current
implementation outline at
 
https://github.com/scientific-coder/clj-pres/tree/master/sucker-punch-propaganda

Best Regards,

B.

[1]  
https://blip.tv/clojure/neal-ford-neal-s-master-plan-for-clojure-enterprise-mindshare-domination-5953926

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partition-by where the subsequences are also lazy ..

[Sunil S Nandihalli]

Hi everybody,
while the partition-by by itself is lazy the subseqs it creates are not
lazy. I was attempting to make that happen. I would like to get comments
from the community about my modification to partition-by so as to make it
create the subsequences in a lazy way ... will this work?


My version :
(defn lazy-partition-by
  "Applies f to each value in coll, splitting it each time f returns



   a new value.  Returns a lazy seq of partitions."
  {:added "1.2"}
  [f coll]
  (lazy-seq
   (when-let [s (seq coll)]
 (let [fst (first s)
   fv (f fst)
   run (lazy-seq (cons fst (take-while #(= fv (f %)) (next s]
  (cons run (lazy-partition-by f (drop-while #(= fv (f %))
s)))

original version :
(defn partition-by



  "Applies f to each value in coll, splitting it each time f returns



   a new value.  Returns a lazy seq of partitions."



  {:added "1.2"}



  [f coll]



  (lazy-seq



   (when-let [s (seq coll)]



 (let [fst (first s)



   fv (f fst)



   run (cons fst (take-while #(= fv (f %)) (rest s)))]



   (cons run (partition-by f (drop (count run) s)))


thanks.
Sunil.

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