Re: Question on `cljx` and `lein-dalap`

[Shantanu Kumar]

Thanks, Chas! Appreciate the detailed reply.

Shantanu

On Monday, 12 August 2013 21:26:31 UTC+5:30, Chas Emerick wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Shantanu Kumar wrote: 
>
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > I am thinking about how to use Cljx correctly in my projects (for 
> portability); I have few questions: 
> > 
> > 1. I understand the Cljx plugin generates .clj and .cljs source code in 
> target/classes destination. Does that mean, when I generate a JAR for 
> distribution it again must be processed by Cljx to generate variant 
> specific code at runtime? (Is my assumption correct?) 
> > 
> > 2. Does Cljx support ClojureCLR yet? I noticed one mention of `clr` on 
> the Cljx README but haven't heard anybody using yet. 
> > 
> > 3. On what occasion should I consider lein-dalap instead of Cljx? 
>
> Hi Shantanu, 
>
> Some answers: 
>
> 1. Yes, cljx implies a transformation step each time you need to package 
> Clojure or ClojureScript code, whatever the context.  The Leiningen plugin, 
> hooks, and nREPL middleware (so as to make loading code from .cljx files 
> directly into REPL sessions, whether they be Clojure- or 
> ClojureScript-flavoured [via piggieback]) are all provided to make this as 
> painless as possible. 
>
> 2. No, cljx does not support ClojureCLR (yet?).  Doing this would be quite 
> straightforward: add a clr-rules map (similar to those found @ 
> https://github.com/lynaghk/cljx/blob/master/src/cljx/rules.clj#L71), and 
> a suitable shortcut for it in the plugin itself (around 
> https://github.com/lynaghk/cljx/blob/master/src/cljx/core.clj#L78).  (The 
> latter can probably be generalized into a map lookup once there's three 
> default rulesets.)  That will take care of emitting the right code when 
> `lein cljx` is run.  nREPL middleware for ClojureCLR (do such things exist 
> yet?) is another matter; that may be a reason for at least some parts of 
> cljx to be written in cljx. ;-) 
>
> I think some uncontroversial points of contrast between cljx and 
> lein-dalap might be: 
>
> * cljx does not privilege any particular target; lein-dalap 
> assumes/requires Clojure code as its primary representation 
> * cljx's transformations are completely static (i.e. they are made long 
> before any of your code is touched by the Clojure runtime, including the 
> reader); lein-dalap uses either reader or runtime metadata (I can't recall 
> at the moment) to inform its transformations. 
>
> I contribute and use cljx, so I hope my preference/bias is clear. 
>
> Cheers, 
>
> - Chas

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Alex Baranosky]

To me you cannot separate Clojure's syntax from its capabilities, because a
number of its capabilities are enabled by the syntax.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Christian Sperandio <
christian.speran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the choice of a language has always a subjective part.
> Particularly when you learn a language by yourself for pleasure.  Because
> it's 'for pleasure' you want to learn a fun stuff.
>
> At work, I believe the subjective part works against a choice. Currently,
> at my office, the 8 other colleagues don't want to take a look at Clojure
> because of its LISP syntax. Their brain blocks and they don't hear you when
> you talk about the language capabilities.
> Le 13 août 2013 03:14, "Devin Walters"  a écrit :
>
> I have to echo previous sentiments. I'm not going to fill out the survey
>> because as it currently stands, it seems like it's begging for a conclusion
>> that satisfies the author.
>>
>> I'd like to see more targeted questions w/r/t syntax. But there again, I
>> think this kind of question is highly subjective, and likely to provide a
>> narrow view of what people *actually* care about in Clojure: writing great
>> programs, being inspired to dig deeper, realizing creative potential, etc.
>>
>> '(Devin Walters)
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Ramesh  wrote:
>>
>> Great points here!
>>
>> I think once someone is comfortable with Clojure, Scala will be more
>> disgusting than Java. This is because, Scala has such great adornments,
>> ironically aspiring toward simplification.
>>
>> -ramesh
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Pollak <
>> feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A couple of quick reactions...
>>>
>>> The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or
>>> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.
>>>
>>> Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like
>>> core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut...
>>> just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a
>>> one-to-one mapping.
>>>
>>> People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with
>>> them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular
>>> and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an
>>> abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they
>>> model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the
>>> abstract computer they are programming.
>>>
>>> I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula
>>> language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a
>>> syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with
>>> something like that right now.
>>>
>>> I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure
>>> feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no
>>> going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally
>>> appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay
>>> all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes
>>> getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply...
>>> in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be
>>> as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru >> > wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
 people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
 would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.

 Here's the link:

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform

 Răzvan

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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Christian Sperandio]

I think the choice of a language has always a subjective part. Particularly
when you learn a language by yourself for pleasure.  Because  it's 'for
pleasure' you want to learn a fun stuff.

At work, I believe the subjective part works against a choice. Currently,
at my office, the 8 other colleagues don't want to take a look at Clojure
because of its LISP syntax. Their brain blocks and they don't hear you when
you talk about the language capabilities.
Le 13 août 2013 03:14, "Devin Walters"  a écrit :

> I have to echo previous sentiments. I'm not going to fill out the survey
> because as it currently stands, it seems like it's begging for a conclusion
> that satisfies the author.
>
> I'd like to see more targeted questions w/r/t syntax. But there again, I
> think this kind of question is highly subjective, and likely to provide a
> narrow view of what people *actually* care about in Clojure: writing great
> programs, being inspired to dig deeper, realizing creative potential, etc.
>
> '(Devin Walters)
>
> On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Ramesh  wrote:
>
> Great points here!
>
> I think once someone is comfortable with Clojure, Scala will be more
> disgusting than Java. This is because, Scala has such great adornments,
> ironically aspiring toward simplification.
>
> -ramesh
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Pollak <
> feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A couple of quick reactions...
>>
>> The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or
>> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.
>>
>> Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like
>> core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut...
>> just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a
>> one-to-one mapping.
>>
>> People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with
>> them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular
>> and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an
>> abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they
>> model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the
>> abstract computer they are programming.
>>
>> I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula
>> language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a
>> syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with
>> something like that right now.
>>
>> I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure
>> feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no
>> going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally
>> appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay
>> all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes
>> getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply...
>> in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be
>> as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-(
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
>>> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
>>> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>>>
>>> Here's the link:
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>>>
>>> Răzvan
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>>
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(reduce conj ["A"]) verification from source code...

[drclj]

Is this happening on lines: for (reduce conj ["A"])

[f val coll] gets called eventually  from [f coll] and since s does not 
exist it ends with val straight.

(def reduce
 (fn r
   ([f coll]
 (let [s (seq coll)]
   (if s
 (r f (first s) (next s))
 (f
   ([f val coll]
  (let [s (seq coll)]
(if s
  (if (chunked-seq? s)
(recur f 
   (.reduce (chunk-first s) f val)
   (chunk-next s))
(recur f (f val (first s)) (next s)))
  val)

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Re: Lazy group-by for sorted maps?

[Michael-Keith Bernard (SegFaultAX)]

For the partition-by solution to work, you have to ensure that the result 
set from the query is sorted by the foreign key:

(partition-by identity "aaabbbcccaaabbbcc")
;;=> ((\a \a \a) (\b \b \b) (\c \c \c) (\a \a \a) (\b \b \b) (\c \c))
(partition-by identity (sort "aaabbbcccaaabbbcc"))
;;=> ((\a \a \a \a \a \a) (\b \b \b \b \b \b) (\c \c \c \c \c))


On Monday, August 12, 2013 11:17:29 AM UTC-7, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Great - thanks!
>
>
> On 12 August 2013 19:07, Jonah Benton >wrote:
>
>>
>> Sounds like a job for partition-by:
>>
>> http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/partition-by
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Colin Yates 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Is there such a thing as a lazy group-by for a sequence of elements when 
>>> the elements are sorted on the criteria used to group them?  I can imagine 
>>> how one would look in a few lines of Clojure code but I am surprised there 
>>> isn't one already.
>>>
>>> My actual criteria is that I am pulling things from a database that live 
>>> on the "many" side of a one-many and I want to sort on the "one" FK.
>>>
>>> This is all based on the assumption that 
>>> http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/group-by is eager!
>>>  
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>>  
>>>
>>
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>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: (newbie-ish) Modelling question - multi methods?

[Jonah Benton]

It sounds like it depends on whether the collaborators are properly known
to the command, e.g. at command generation/creation time, or to the
handler, e.g. at handler creation/registration time.

If the former, then it would make sense for each command to be a record
that was created with all required collaborators and participated in a
Handle protocol, called by the gateway.

if the latter, then handlers are simple functions that take collaborators
as initial parameters, followed by a command parameter. Then the bindings
for collaborators are wrapped in a partial prior to registration, so the
gateway calls the registered function with the command map as the single
parameter.

A factor by which to decide- do the collaborators remain the same per
command for the lifetime of the app? If the same, then assigning them every
time a command is created is wasteful, but if different, then assigning per
command is required.

That said, an issue I've run into when using types like this is that the
type distinction required for dispatch is complected with field membership
of the records. When the same fields need to be handled in potentially
different ways, then different command records need to have the same
fields; or when different fields need to be handled the same way, either
different command records dispatch to the same handler, or a single record
contains the union of fields needed for the handler. All of those are
unpleasant, so unless the handler functions neatly map to distinct
collections of fields, just using maps is more appealing.



On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Colin Yates  wrote:

> Hi Russell,
>
> Maybe the concrete case will help.  I have a single entry point into which
> Commands can be posted, let's call it a CommandGateway.  This gateway will
> do many things, the least of which will be to delegate the handling of the
> command to the command handler registered with the gateway.  The strategy
> is 'how to handle a command'.
>
> Now, the handler for :command-a needs a database for example.  The handler
> for :command-b needs another collaborator.
>
> CommandGateway has no idea about this and defines a defmulti called
> handle-command which dispatches on the :type of the command (which is
> really a trivial map).
>
> The command handler for :command-a registers a defmethod for :command-a
> but how does the body of that defmethod access the database connection for
> example?
>
> I can see a few options:
>  - give up on avoiding global state and have a bound 'system' register
> (i.e. a global/static service locator) - please no.
>  - don't use multi-methods for this and have CommandGateway have a map of
> predicate:handler.  The handler for command-a would then register itself
> and use lexical scoping to access the required collaborators
>  - use multi-methods, but have a CommandAHandler which is a stateful
> record and retains its collaborators (i.e. the database) and extends itself
> to implement command-handler)
>
> My question is really 'when does using types stop being idiomatic'.  So
> far I have gotten surprisingly far using maps/sequences and passing
> collaborators around.  Now it seems to use multi methods to dispatch the
> command I need the target of the dispatch to be stateful to remember its
> collaborators.
>
> Might all be a storm in a teacup :), hence the clarity request.
>
>
>
> On 12 August 2013 16:50, Russell Mull  wrote:
>
>> Generally, I'd go for a simple strategy (ahem) like this:
>>
>> (defn make-handler [wibblie wooblie]
>>   (fn [woosy]
>> ))
>>
>> But perhaps there's something about your case that I don't understand;
>> I'm not entirely sure where multimethods need to come into it, unless you
>> need to change which handler you're using based on the thing it's handling.
>>
>> Russell
>>
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Re: Searching for Regular Expressions in a file

[Joel Holdbrooks]

You could use *line-seq* which, if I'm not mistaken, is lazy. Then do your 
regex search line by line lazily.

On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:25:15 PM UTC-7, JvJ wrote:
>
> Is there a way to do a regex search over an entire file without loading 
> the file into memory?
>

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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Devin Walters]

If I could plug into a machine and say "I know kung-fu" I would agree with you, 
but that is simply not reality. Steps which allow learners to rely less on 
cheatsheets over time are important, but curiously, cheatsheets are one of 
those steps.

'(Devin Walters)

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Rostislav Svoboda  
wrote:

> What would we like to have is a language easy to learn without any
> need for a cheatsheet.
> 
> On 13 August 2013 02:10, Devin Walters  wrote:
>> Could you clarify: Why is that a good goal?
>> 
>> '(Devin Walters)
>> 
>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Rostislav Svoboda
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> The number of cheatsheets is growing (this is a good thing IMO)
>> 
>> It's not about having one brilliant cheatsheet. The ultimate goal is to get
>> rid off them all.
>> 
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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Devin Walters]

I have to echo previous sentiments. I'm not going to fill out the survey 
because as it currently stands, it seems like it's begging for a conclusion 
that satisfies the author.

I'd like to see more targeted questions w/r/t syntax. But there again, I think 
this kind of question is highly subjective, and likely to provide a narrow view 
of what people *actually* care about in Clojure: writing great programs, being 
inspired to dig deeper, realizing creative potential, etc.

'(Devin Walters)

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Ramesh  wrote:

> Great points here!
> 
> I think once someone is comfortable with Clojure, Scala will be more 
> disgusting than Java. This is because, Scala has such great adornments, 
> ironically aspiring toward simplification.
> 
> -ramesh
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Pollak  
> wrote:
>> A couple of quick reactions...
>> 
>> The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or 
>> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.
>> 
>> Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like 
>> core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut... 
>> just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a one-to-one 
>> mapping.
>> 
>> People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with 
>> them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular 
>> and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an 
>> abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they model 
>> and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the abstract 
>> computer they are programming.
>> 
>> I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula 
>> language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a 
>> syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with 
>> something like that right now.
>> 
>> I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure 
>> feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no 
>> going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally 
>> appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay 
>> all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes 
>> getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply... 
>> in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be as 
>> disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-(
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru  
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether people 
>>> actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I would like 
>>> to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>>> 
>>> Here's the link:
>>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>>> 
>>> Răzvan
>>> -- 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>> 
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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Rostislav Svoboda]

What would we like to have is a language easy to learn without any
need for a cheatsheet.

On 13 August 2013 02:10, Devin Walters  wrote:
> Could you clarify: Why is that a good goal?
>
> '(Devin Walters)
>
> On Aug 12, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Rostislav Svoboda
>  wrote:
>
>> The number of cheatsheets is growing (this is a good thing IMO)
>
> It's not about having one brilliant cheatsheet. The ultimate goal is to get
> rid off them all.
>
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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[Sean Corfield]

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:
> I recall issues around the certificate GitHub used, but I'm not aware of any
> troubles that have been reported with the Amazon certificates. We switched
> to Amazon when GitHub turned off its upload functionality at the end of
> 2012, so everything from 2.0.0 onward has been on Amazon. Did the problems
> you're describing happen after the move?

I can't be certain, sorry. It did happen on my Win8 tablet but that
just means it happened something between mid-December 2012 and now, so
I don't know whether I caught the end of the Github issues there and
they just looked the same. Since Windows doesn't come with curl/wget
by default - and I'm using GOW (Gnu on Windows) rather than the
heavier Cygwin - the error message fallback isn't entirely helpful for
Windows users *smile*

> One simple thing that might help would be to include the URL and target
> location on disk in the error message so people can download by hand. The
> error message already includes instructions for how to disable certificate
> checking though, so I don't think a fallback location would help much.

See above. Those instructions assume curl or wget and a general UNIX-y
mindset...
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Ramesh]

Great points here!

I think once someone is comfortable with Clojure, Scala will be more
disgusting than Java. This is because, Scala has such great adornments,
ironically aspiring toward simplification.

-ramesh


On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Pollak  wrote:

> A couple of quick reactions...
>
> The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or
> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.
>
> Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like
> core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut...
> just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a
> one-to-one mapping.
>
> People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with
> them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular
> and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an
> abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they
> model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the
> abstract computer they are programming.
>
> I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula
> language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a
> syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with
> something like that right now.
>
> I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure
> feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no
> going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally
> appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay
> all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes
> getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply...
> in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be
> as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-(
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
>> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
>> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>>
>> Here's the link:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>>
>> Răzvan
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>
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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Devin Walters]

Could you clarify: Why is that a good goal?

'(Devin Walters)

On Aug 12, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Rostislav Svoboda  
wrote:

> > The number of cheatsheets is growing (this is a good thing IMO)
> 
> It's not about having one brilliant cheatsheet. The ultimate goal is to get 
> rid off them all.
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Re: Searching for Regular Expressions in a file

[Mark]

Clojure's regex functions are built on top of Java's and Java's regex 
support is built on the CharSequence abstraction, not String as we normally 
think of them.  You could adapt files to CharSequence without much 
trouble.  I think this approach would keep the memory requirements to a 
minimum.

On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:25:15 PM UTC-7, JvJ wrote:
>
> Is there a way to do a regex search over an entire file without loading 
> the file into memory?
>

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Searching for Regular Expressions in a file

[JvJ]

Is there a way to do a regex search over an entire file without loading the 
file into memory?

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Re: Feature toggles via Leiningen profiles

[Phil Hagelberg]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 1:36:43 PM UTC-7, Karsten Schmidt wrote:
> Hi Michal, have a look at this gist to see how this can be done: 
> https://gist.github.com/postspectacular/6214886

Rather than shadowing one implementation with another, I'd recommend 
keeping both implementations in different namespaces and dispatching based 
on config, which can be read from the classpath. Put the production config 
in resources/ and the dev one in dev-resources/.

-Phil

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core.logic - getting good at writing non-terminating programs

[Mark]

I needed to extend rembero to handle removing multiple items.  For example 
(rememberallo [1 2 3] [1 2 3 4 5] [4 5]) is true.  My relation is:

(l/defne remberallo [s l o]
  ([() l l])
  ([[h . r] _ _]
(l/fresh [o-h]
 (l/rembero h l o-h)
 (remberallo r o-h o

It's good enough for my use case where s and l are always ground but, in an 
effort to understand logic programming better, I started testing programs 
where s & l are ground but l is not.  Here, I run into non-terminating 
programs.  For example:

(l/run 7 [q]
 (remberallo [2 3] q [1]))

At run level 6, I get all the permutations of [1 2 3], just as expected.  
However, at 7, the program does not terminate and I'd like to understand 
why.  I feel like I need to constrain the relation between o-h and o better 
but I'm not sure what else to say about it.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Feature toggles via Leiningen profiles

[Karsten Schmidt]

Hi Michal, have a look at this gist to see how this can be done:
https://gist.github.com/postspectacular/6214886

Best, K.
-- 
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http://postspectacular.com | http://toxiclibs.org | http://thi.ng

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Clojure Developer searching small work for next 30 days

[resatori]

My experience in clojure programming:


   - developed a video game with it in (playable here: 
   resatori.com/cyber-dungeon-quest)
   - developed a multi agent exploration simulation (JAVA SWING, 
   multithreaded using refs) 
   
I finished university a few months ago and I still do not have a job (doing 
interviews at the moment ... takes a while until I start full time).

I want to earn some money this month, doing anything. Located in munich, 
germany. I need about 400-800 euro and am willing to work from tomorrow to 
september 8.

My goal is to take part in a meditation retreat starting september 9 and 
this is why I need the money ;)






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ANN Elastisch 1.2.0 is released

[Michael Klishin]

Elastisch [1] is a small, feature complete Clojure client for ElasticSearch
that
provides both HTTP and native transports and has solid documentation.

1.2.0 is a minor feature release. Release notes:
http://blog.clojurewerkz.org/blog/2013/08/11/elastisch-1-dot-2-0-is-released/

1. http://clojureelasticsearch.info
-- 
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http://github.com/michaelklishin
http://twitter.com/michaelklishin

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Re: Lazy group-by for sorted maps?

[Colin Yates]

Great - thanks!


On 12 August 2013 19:07, Jonah Benton  wrote:

>
> Sounds like a job for partition-by:
>
> http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/partition-by
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Colin Yates wrote:
>
>> Is there such a thing as a lazy group-by for a sequence of elements when
>> the elements are sorted on the criteria used to group them?  I can imagine
>> how one would look in a few lines of Clojure code but I am surprised there
>> isn't one already.
>>
>> My actual criteria is that I am pulling things from a database that live
>> on the "many" side of a one-many and I want to sort on the "one" FK.
>>
>> This is all based on the assumption that
>> http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/group-by is eager!
>>
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Re: Lazy group-by for sorted maps?

[Jonah Benton]

Sounds like a job for partition-by:

http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/partition-by



On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Colin Yates  wrote:

> Is there such a thing as a lazy group-by for a sequence of elements when
> the elements are sorted on the criteria used to group them?  I can imagine
> how one would look in a few lines of Clojure code but I am surprised there
> isn't one already.
>
> My actual criteria is that I am pulling things from a database that live
> on the "many" side of a one-many and I want to sort on the "one" FK.
>
> This is all based on the assumption that
> http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/group-by is eager!
>
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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Colin Yates]

Nice tip - thanks.

On Monday, 12 August 2013 18:09:56 UTC+1, Steven Degutis wrote:
>
> I also like Clojure's syntax because it shows me the structure of my 
> function more clearly than does the imperative code I've written in other 
> languages.
>
> My functions always turn out in either pyramids or triangles or walls. 
> Each function's shape indicates its nature very visually, including 
> potential flaws and ways it could be refactored.
>
> For example functions with a pyramid shape usually turn out to be trying 
> to do both a cond-type branching and the work inside one/some of the 
> branches, which is probably too much responsibility for one function.
>
> Short functions with a relative straight line going down the left edge is 
> a sign of good health. Walls are signs that I'm getting imperative again 
> and could either clean something up with -> or ->> or splitting out into 
> more functions, or maybe all of these.
>
> I couldn't get this level of quality of visual feedback from my Ruby code.
>
> -Steven
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether 
>> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I 
>> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>>
>> Here's the link:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>>
>> Răzvan
>>
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Lazy group-by for sorted maps?

[Colin Yates]

Is there such a thing as a lazy group-by for a sequence of elements when 
the elements are sorted on the criteria used to group them?  I can imagine 
how one would look in a few lines of Clojure code but I am surprised there 
isn't one already.

My actual criteria is that I am pulling things from a database that live on 
the "many" side of a one-many and I want to sort on the "one" FK.

This is all based on the assumption that 
http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/group-by is eager!

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Steven Degutis]

I also like Clojure's syntax because it shows me the structure of my
function more clearly than does the imperative code I've written in other
languages.

My functions always turn out in either pyramids or triangles or walls. Each
function's shape indicates its nature very visually, including potential
flaws and ways it could be refactored.

For example functions with a pyramid shape usually turn out to be trying to
do both a cond-type branching and the work inside one/some of the branches,
which is probably too much responsibility for one function.

Short functions with a relative straight line going down the left edge is a
sign of good health. Walls are signs that I'm getting imperative again and
could either clean something up with -> or ->> or splitting out into more
functions, or maybe all of these.

I couldn't get this level of quality of visual feedback from my Ruby code.

-Steven


On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>
> Here's the link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>
> Răzvan
>
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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Rostislav Svoboda]

> The number of cheatsheets is growing (this is a good thing IMO)

It's not about having one brilliant cheatsheet. The ultimate goal is to get
rid off them all.

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Steven Degutis]

I love Clojure's syntax, and not because of macros. I love it because it's
both extremely consistent and extremely simple. Just some quick examples:

   - In Ruby, blocks use || for param lists and functions use (). In
   Clojure it's always the same.
   - In Ruby if you pass a block argument to a method, you use do/end, but
   if you pass it as a non-block argument, you use lambda/proc/Proc.new. If
   you're passing it by name, you use & for block arguments and omit it for
   regular arguments. In Clojure it's always a regular function, whether
   anonymous or not.
   - In Ruby, depending on whether you use {} or do/end for blocks, they
   become "attached" to different method calls depending on if you used
   parentheses for your intended method call(s) or not. In Clojure,
   parentheses completely eliminate potential for this ambiguity.
   - In Ruby, there are only some methods you can name with special
   characters, such as << and foo=, and they're special-cased by the parser or
   something so you can write "names << bob" and "self.foo = bar", but you
   can't write a method called ">!!" if you wanted to. In Clojure you can name
   functions anything that doesn't use the (very few) built-in syntax
   characters like parentheses.

I did Ruby for the past 3 years so these come to mind most quickly. But I'm
sure I could come up with examples in all other languages I've used
demonstrating that Clojure's syntax is the most consistent and most simple
of them all. And simple is good, since it saves your brain cells some
energy to work on the real problems.

Background: My day job is a Clojure web app, which I've been working on for
almost a year now.

-Steven


On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>
> Here's the link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>
> Răzvan
>
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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[Phil Hagelberg]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 9:29:53 AM UTC-7, Greg wrote:
> I used Homebrew to upgrade. Do you happen to know what the relationship 
is between your `lein upgrade` command and the `brew upgrade leiningen` 
command? 

We include a `bin/lein-pkg` script for downstream packagers like Debian, 
homebrew, etc, which has the upgrade and self-install functionality 
removed. However, last I checked, the homebrew packagers were not aware of 
this and just packaged the regular `bin/lein` script. I mentioned it in 
some issue comments, but I don't know if they've switched yet. I suspect 
using `lein upgrade` for an installation that wasn't done manually would 
cause problems, but I don't know anything about homebrew specifically.

-Phil

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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Andy Fingerhut]

I have added links to Kris's Clojure Emacs cheatsheet, and Michael's
ClojureScript cheatsheets, here:

http://jafingerhut.github.io

That page has had links to tooltip versions of the Clojure/JVM HTML & PDF
cheatsheets for some time now, and is linked from the top of
http://clojure.org/cheatsheet

I'd be happy to add links to other similar things there.  Suggest
additions/changes in email, pull requests, etc.

Andy



On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Michael Fogus  wrote:

> The number of cheatsheets is growing (this is a good thing IMO) and I
> wonder if it would be worth aggregating them all under one location?
>
> I have my own ClojureScript cheatsheet (
> https://github.com/readevalprintlove/clojurescript-cheatsheet) and the
> CLJS synonyms page (http://himera.herokuapp.com/synonym.html) that I
> would be willing to add to the mix.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Kris Jenkins wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I find the Clojure Cheatsheet  really
>> useful, but since I often need at those times I don't have wifi, I've
>> packaged it up into an Emacs plugin:
>>
>>
>> 
>> In the hope that someone else finds it useful too, the project's here on
>> Github , along with
>> installation instructions. Any feedback is welcomed. :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kris
>>
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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[Phil Hagelberg]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 6:52:55 AM UTC-7, Sean Corfield wrote:
> On Windows it definitely has been a problem in the past. I'm pretty 
> sure some users have run into problems with the S3 Amazon SSL 
> certificate in the past on non-Windows platforms too, but I'll defer 
> to you regarding the non-Windows experience.

I recall issues around the certificate GitHub used, but I'm not aware of 
any troubles that have been reported with the Amazon certificates. We 
switched to Amazon when GitHub turned off its upload functionality at the 
end of 2012, so everything from 2.0.0 onward has been on Amazon. Did the 
problems you're describing happen after the move?

One simple thing that might help would be to include the URL and target 
location on disk in the error message so people can download by hand. The 
error message already includes instructions for how to disable certificate 
checking though, so I don't think a fallback location would help much.

-Phil

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[ANN] Marginalia has a new home

[Fogus]

A few days ago I posted that I was looking for a new home for Marginalia[1] 
and today I am happy to say that I have found one.  Gary Deer 
(https://github.com/gdeer81) has graciously agreed to take the reins and 
push Marginalia in new and exciting directions.

Two projects fall under the Marginalia banner:

1. Marginalia 
2. lein-marginalia 

Both of these projects now reside in Gary's Github account and he is the 
person to contact should you have questions.  I will still help however I 
can, but Gary is the man with the plan moving forward.

Thank you Gary and thanks to everyone who has contributed and used 
Marginalia over the past few years.



[1]: http://blog.fogus.me/2013/08/07/marginalia-needs-a-home/


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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[Greg]

Hey Phil, thanks for the update!

> As usual, you can get the latest version by running `lein upgrade`.

I used Homebrew to upgrade. Do you happen to know what the relationship is 
between your `lein upgrade` command and the `brew upgrade leiningen` command?

For example, if lein was installed view Homebrew, should it also be upgraded 
via Homebrew, or can it be upgraded later via the lein upgrade command? Or 
could that cause problems?

For safety's sake, I didn't test what would happen myself and just used 
Homebrew to update it.

- Greg

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On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:

> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm happy to announce the release of Leiningen version 2.3.0. This
> version contains mostly minor fixes, but some highlights include faster
> test runs when using selectors (by skipping fixtures), better support
> for detecting ambiguous version resolutions via :pedantic, and fixes to
> better isolate different profiles in different :target-paths.
> 
> * Add `:eval-in :pprint` for debugging. (Phil Hagelberg)
> * Support cleaning extra dirs with `:clean-targets`. (Yoshinori Kohyama)
> * Test-selectors skip fixtures too, not just running tests. (Gary Fredericks)
> * Place licenses and readmes into jars. (Phil Hagelberg)
> * Include LICENSE as separate file in templates. (Wolodja Wentland)
> * Allow aborting on ambiguous version resolution with `:pedantic`. (Nelson 
> Morris, Phil Hagelberg)
> * Scope `:compile-path` and `:native-path` under profile-specific target dir. 
> (Phil Hagelberg)
> * Fix bug where uberjar filename would include provided profile. (Phil 
> Hagelberg)
> * Deprecate explicit `self-install` command. (Phil Hagelberg)
> * Fix bugs around long lines in jar manifests. (Leon Barrett)
> * Support nested checkout dependencies. (Phil Hagelberg)
> * Fix bugs around `:filespecs`. (Jean Niklas L'orange)
> 
> As usual, you can get the latest version by running `lein upgrade`.
> 
> Thanks to all the contributors who helped make this happen.
> 
> happy hacking,
> Phil



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Re: (newbie-ish) Modelling question - multi methods?

[Colin Yates]

Hi Russell,

Maybe the concrete case will help.  I have a single entry point into which
Commands can be posted, let's call it a CommandGateway.  This gateway will
do many things, the least of which will be to delegate the handling of the
command to the command handler registered with the gateway.  The strategy
is 'how to handle a command'.

Now, the handler for :command-a needs a database for example.  The handler
for :command-b needs another collaborator.

CommandGateway has no idea about this and defines a defmulti called
handle-command which dispatches on the :type of the command (which is
really a trivial map).

The command handler for :command-a registers a defmethod for :command-a but
how does the body of that defmethod access the database connection for
example?

I can see a few options:
 - give up on avoiding global state and have a bound 'system' register
(i.e. a global/static service locator) - please no.
 - don't use multi-methods for this and have CommandGateway have a map of
predicate:handler.  The handler for command-a would then register itself
and use lexical scoping to access the required collaborators
 - use multi-methods, but have a CommandAHandler which is a stateful record
and retains its collaborators (i.e. the database) and extends itself to
implement command-handler)

My question is really 'when does using types stop being idiomatic'.  So far
I have gotten surprisingly far using maps/sequences and passing
collaborators around.  Now it seems to use multi methods to dispatch the
command I need the target of the dispatch to be stateful to remember its
collaborators.

Might all be a storm in a teacup :), hence the clarity request.



On 12 August 2013 16:50, Russell Mull  wrote:

> Generally, I'd go for a simple strategy (ahem) like this:
>
> (defn make-handler [wibblie wooblie]
>   (fn [woosy]
> ))
>
> But perhaps there's something about your case that I don't understand; I'm
> not entirely sure where multimethods need to come into it, unless you need
> to change which handler you're using based on the thing it's handling.
>
> Russell
>
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Deft: A Typeshaping Library

[Steve Shogren]

Hello everyone! I recently created this 
libraryto solve a problem I was having 
with maps. 

I am not sure if it would be helpful to anyone else, I would appreciate any 
feedback.

The point of the library is to provide some run-time "typeshape" checking 
of Clojure functions, completely a la carte, but not step on the toes of 
the built in pre/post assertions. I know this sort of thing can be done 
with those assertions, but I wanted to make it simpler to use. Right now a 
typeshape is just a vec of keywords a map must contain to be considered 
that typeshape.

Any suggestions as to my implementation or pull requests are totally 
welcome. 

Thanks!

Steve

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Softaddicts]

In 2008 I was surveying alternatives to Java, I wanted something
concise and needed better support for concurrency, parallelism , ...
We had a prototype written in Java but I could not see how we could get a decent
product out using Java without making the business case crumble.

I looked at Scala but to me it was not a significant departure from Java. After 
looking at Ruby which at that time seemed weak in terms of concurrency
(jruby was not out yet or in its infancy), I found Clojure.

This was not by accident. I started to look for a Lisp running on the JVM to 
leverage part of the work that had been done here, code = data and 
expressiveness
after the other alternatives failed to meet my checklist.

This selection was based strictly on features. Not on the surface of things 
which can
be very noisy and very deceiving in the long run.

I was almost certain that I could leverage the JVM stuff afterward, reuse some
existing code and benefit from the JVM legacy.

I did not fell in the "Scala trap" nor in the "Ruby trap" except for a few GUIs 
made
with Rail (these days it's ClojureScript that's replacing it) :)

I knew Lisp syntax already (aside from a dozen other languages) but I did not 
consider this as a selection criteria. I wanted expressiveness and Lisps had
a good track record in this area for decades.

As a bonus, Clojure syntax is an improvement over older Lisps and that is 
overlooked by many who do not looked at "traditional" Lisp code.

Features, features, 

Luc

> A couple of quick reactions...
> > The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or
> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.
> > Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like
> core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut...
> just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a
> one-to-one mapping.
> > People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with
> them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular
> and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an
> abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they
> model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the
> abstract computer they are programming.
> > I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula
> language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a
> syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with
> something like that right now.
> > I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure
> feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no
> going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally
> appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay
> all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes
> getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply..
> in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be
> as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-(
> > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru 
> > > > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> >
> > I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
> > people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
> > would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
> >
> > Here's the link:
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
> >
> > Răzvan
> >
> > --
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Re: Question on `cljx` and `lein-dalap`

[Chas Emerick]

On Aug 11, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Shantanu Kumar wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am thinking about how to use Cljx correctly in my projects (for 
> portability); I have few questions:
> 
> 1. I understand the Cljx plugin generates .clj and .cljs source code in 
> target/classes destination. Does that mean, when I generate a JAR for 
> distribution it again must be processed by Cljx to generate variant specific 
> code at runtime? (Is my assumption correct?)
> 
> 2. Does Cljx support ClojureCLR yet? I noticed one mention of `clr` on the 
> Cljx README but haven't heard anybody using yet.
> 
> 3. On what occasion should I consider lein-dalap instead of Cljx?

Hi Shantanu,

Some answers:

1. Yes, cljx implies a transformation step each time you need to package 
Clojure or ClojureScript code, whatever the context.  The Leiningen plugin, 
hooks, and nREPL middleware (so as to make loading code from .cljx files 
directly into REPL sessions, whether they be Clojure- or 
ClojureScript-flavoured [via piggieback]) are all provided to make this as 
painless as possible.

2. No, cljx does not support ClojureCLR (yet?).  Doing this would be quite 
straightforward: add a clr-rules map (similar to those found @ 
https://github.com/lynaghk/cljx/blob/master/src/cljx/rules.clj#L71), and a 
suitable shortcut for it in the plugin itself (around 
https://github.com/lynaghk/cljx/blob/master/src/cljx/core.clj#L78).  (The 
latter can probably be generalized into a map lookup once there's three default 
rulesets.)  That will take care of emitting the right code when `lein cljx` is 
run.  nREPL middleware for ClojureCLR (do such things exist yet?) is another 
matter; that may be a reason for at least some parts of cljx to be written in 
cljx. ;-)

I think some uncontroversial points of contrast between cljx and lein-dalap 
might be:

* cljx does not privilege any particular target; lein-dalap assumes/requires 
Clojure code as its primary representation
* cljx's transformations are completely static (i.e. they are made long before 
any of your code is touched by the Clojure runtime, including the reader); 
lein-dalap uses either reader or runtime metadata (I can't recall at the 
moment) to inform its transformations.

I contribute and use cljx, so I hope my preference/bias is clear.

Cheers,

- Chas

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Re: ANN RabbitMQ tutorials ported to Clojure

[Robert Pitts]

This is awesome, thanks for your efforts!

Wish this was around a few months ago, but I imagine people will be well 
served by it in the future :)

On Monday, August 12, 2013 2:15:20 AM UTC-4, Michael Klishin wrote:
>
> I'm happy to announce that 5 out of 6 RabbitMQ tutorials [1] are now 
> available
> for Clojure:
>
> https://github.com/rabbitmq/rabbitmq-tutorials/tree/master/clojure
>
> and are tested for interoperability with 9 other clients. The final 
> tutorial will be
> ported at a later point.
>
> 1. http://www.rabbitmq.com/getstarted.html
> -- 
> MK
>
> http://github.com/michaelklishin
> http://twitter.com/michaelklishin
>  

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Re: (newbie-ish) Modelling question - multi methods?

[Russell Mull]

Generally, I'd go for a simple strategy (ahem) like this:

(defn make-handler [wibblie wooblie]
  (fn [woosy]
))

But perhaps there's something about your case that I don't understand; I'm 
not entirely sure where multimethods need to come into it, unless you need 
to change which handler you're using based on the thing it's handling. 

Russell

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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[Phillip Lord]

Sean Corfield  writes:

> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:
>> None of these problems have had anything to do with SSL.
>
> On Windows it definitely has been a problem in the past. I'm pretty
> sure some users have run into problems with the S3 Amazon SSL
> certificate in the past on non-Windows platforms too, but I'll defer
> to you regarding the non-Windows experience.

I tried to get a stock Emacs to download the lein jar on windows.
It won't because it doesn't have SSL out of the box. I think a non SSL
download would be good also. 


Phil

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Phillip Lord]

David Pollak  writes:
> The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or
> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.

I'd agree with this. 

"Do you like" is also a relative thing, I think. I mean, compared to
what? Java? Or common lisp.

The thing that I don't like, is a common documentation markup for
refering to other functions, and params. 

So, compare:

clojure.core/cons
([x seq])
  Returns a new seq where x is the first element and seq is
the rest.

to this

cons is a built-in function in `C source code'.

(cons CAR CDR)

Create a new cons, give it CAR and CDR as components, and return it.

The upper case stuff is a bit shouty, but I like the fact that you can
distinguish the "CAR" as a parameter name typographically, which you
can't with "x" in clojure. Likewise, here:

clojure.core/defmacro
([name doc-string? attr-map? [params*] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? 
([params*] body) + attr-map?])
Macro
  Like defn, but the resulting function name is declared as a
  macro and will be used as a macro by the compiler when it is
  call

It's not obvious that "defn" is a function name.

Does this mean I like or dislike clojure syntax?

Phil

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Feature toggles via Leiningen profiles

[Michal Till]

I would like to have two different implemntation of something in my project 
and switch between them based on a Leiningen profile.

For example I have abstracted all storage-related functions to 
app.repository and I have namespace app.stoage.fs for development and 
app.storage.sql for production. Now, in my source files I would like to 
:require only app.repository and some other piece of project should 
automatically decide which implementation should be used. Any ideas how it 
can be done?

The sources should ideally not know that they are being "toggled".

And yes, I come from an OOP world ;-).

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[David Pollak]

A couple of quick reactions...

The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or
green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties.

Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like
core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut...
just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a
one-to-one mapping.

People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with
them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular
and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an
abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they
model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the
abstract computer they are programming.

I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula
language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a
syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with
something like that right now.

I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure
feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no
going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally
appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay
all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes
getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply...
in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be
as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-(



On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether
> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I
> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>
> Here's the link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>
> Răzvan
>
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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Michael Fogus]

The number of cheatsheets is growing (this is a good thing IMO) and I
wonder if it would be worth aggregating them all under one location?

I have my own ClojureScript cheatsheet (
https://github.com/readevalprintlove/clojurescript-cheatsheet) and the CLJS
synonyms page (http://himera.herokuapp.com/synonym.html) that I would be
willing to add to the mix.


On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Kris Jenkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I find the Clojure Cheatsheet  really
> useful, but since I often need at those times I don't have wifi, I've
> packaged it up into an Emacs plugin:
>
>
> 
> In the hope that someone else finds it useful too, the project's here on
> Github , along with
> installation instructions. Any feedback is welcomed. :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Kris
>
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Re: [ANN] Clojure Cheatsheet for Emacs

[Philip Potter]

I just tried to install it from MELPA but get a 404:

http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/clojure-cheatsheet-20130808.2305.el

*sadface*

On 9 August 2013 22:40, Andy Fingerhut  wrote:

> Very nice, Kris!
>
> In case anyone wants to use the Clojure cheatsheet offline using a web
> browser, in a form similar to the on-line one that includes the tooltips,
> there is a git command documented at the link below to create a full local
> copy of it on your computer:
>
> http://jafingerhut.github.io
>
> Then just open the index.html file with your browser.  The links to the
> different variants of the cheatsheet all work off-line.  Some of the links
> later in that page require being on-line (e.g. to get the PDF version of
> the cheatsheet, or to the actual Github version of the repo).
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Simone Mosciatti wrote:
>
>> Thank you so much...
>>
>> Actually was kinda funny, I typed something like "clojure cheatsheet
>> offline" and your github link was one of the first, and I was very
>> surprised... "Wow, it is possible that I didn't know of it ?"
>> Well now I understand why I didn't know of it yet, it is only few hours
>> old ;)
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 9, 2013 10:30:46 PM UTC+2, Kris Jenkins wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I find the Clojure Cheatsheet  really
>>> useful, but since I often need at those times I don't have wifi, I've
>>> packaged it up into an Emacs plugin:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> In the hope that someone else finds it useful too, the project's here
>>> on Github , along
>>> with installation instructions. Any feedback is welcomed. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Kris
>>>
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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[John Gabriele]

On Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:26:37 AM UTC-4, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
>
> On Friday, August 9, 2013 10:07:39 PM UTC-7, Sean Corfield wrote:
>
> None of these problems have had anything to do with SSL.
>
> It's been two things: the self-install function was moved, and the S3 ACL 
> was incorrect due to a typo while uploading. The S3 issues are being 
> addressed by ensuring more of the Leiningen team has access to the AWS 
> account; the reason I'm waiting for the 2.3.1 release is that I want to 
> find a time when I can step through it with one of the other contributors 
> so they are familiar with the process and can do it when I'm not around.
>
> The self-install was broken such that the implicit self-install happened 
> before HTTP_CLIENT was set. The explicit self-install command happens later 
> if you're running it from a checkout of Leiningen itself, which must have 
> been the case when I was testing.
>
> Anyway, a new download location wouldn't solve either of these issues.
>
> In the mean time I've reset the "stable" branch back to 2.2.0, so upgrades 
> and new users won't be affected. If you want to use 2.3.0, you can export 
> HTTP_CLIENT and run `lein upgrade 2.3.0` specifically and it will still 
> pull it in.
>
> You can always back out of an upgrade by running `lein upgrade 2.1.3` or 
> whatever; the upgrade command doesn't care which direction it's going.
>
>
Phil,

Thank you (and the other contributors) for all your work on lein. Although 
there's an occasional hiccup, it's been wonderful to use.

Much appreciated!

Also, did not know that `lein` could also be used to downgrade. Neat.

-- John

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Re: Leiningen 2.3.0 and uberjar

[Sean Corfield]

Or just:

lein do clean, compile, uberjar

On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Christian Sperandio
 wrote:
> The workaround works fine, thanks for your help :)
>
>
> I give below the workaround, thus everybody can get it:
>
> $ lein clean && lein compile && lein uberjar
>
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-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Re: [ANN] Leiningen 2.3.0 released

[Sean Corfield]

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:
> None of these problems have had anything to do with SSL.

On Windows it definitely has been a problem in the past. I'm pretty
sure some users have run into problems with the S3 Amazon SSL
certificate in the past on non-Windows platforms too, but I'll defer
to you regarding the non-Windows experience.

> You can always back out of an upgrade by running `lein upgrade 2.1.3` or
> whatever; the upgrade command doesn't care which direction it's going.

Good to know that you can downgrade automatically without editing the script.
-- 
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An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

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(newbie-ish) Modelling question - multi methods?

[Colin Yates]

Hi all,

I have a strategy that defines handling a woosey.  Most woosey handlers are 
going to need some help, maybe a wibbly and a woobly.  In OO land I would 
have a WooseyHandler { void handle(Woosey woosey); }.  The implementations 
would then receive Wibblies and Wooblies via dependency injection.

So far I have gotten away with passing in collaborators as parameters to 
the functions, or if there are a lot of collaborators for ThingX I will 
have a factory for ThingX which returns a map of collaborators that ThingX 
needs and then pass that map as the first argument to ThingX's functions.

My question is now I have a genuine strategy - which seems to point to 
multi-methods.  Let's say that ThingX can now handle wooseys.  Each 
instance of ThingX is really just a map of its collaborators so that map 
can't take part in the multimethod implementations.  I could make ThingX a 
record and then extend it but I am trying to avoid types as much as 
possible...

So, how can I handle this situation?  A strategy where the implementation 
of that strategy requires more than the subject of that strategy?

Being well entrenched in Java I am consciously avoiding the 'kingdom of 
nouns' and wrapping everything in a custom type, and so far it is working 
wonderfully.  Am I now too allergic to custom types?

Thanks!

Col

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Colin Yates]

I think that jarring effect is actually beneficial, it helps stop people 
carrying invalid assumptions across.  It is all too easy to slip into 
writing code the old way using the new tool.  The lack of familiarity 
between LISPs and Java (Groovy, Scala, rails etc.) makes it that much 
harder to slip.

Personally, this is why I made my newly recruited Windows/Eclipse/Java team 
go cold turkey and use xmonad, lein and emacs.  Sure, it was disruptive and 
I wasn't the most popular guy for a while but the 'clean slate' approach 
was definitely helpful.  Fun times were (eventually) had by all :).

On Monday, 12 August 2013 13:06:43 UTC+1, Jay Fields wrote:
>
> I'll repeat something I've said publicly several times (sorry if 
> you've previously heard it) - 
>
> My first exposure to Clojure was a Stu Halloway blog post: 
> http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/tags/java-next. At the time I was 
> writing mostly Ruby & some Java. I remember finding Clojure syntax 
> repulsive. Despite my gut reaction, I gave Clojure a shot for various 
> (not relevant to this conversation) reasons. 
>
> Fast forward to today, I find non-homoiconic languages to be 
> repulsive. The same feeling applies to inconsistencies - e.g. import 
> syntax != assignment syntax != control flow syntax ... you get the 
> idea. 
>
> I think it's common, and okay, for programmers to see Clojure (lisp?) 
> syntax and feel uncomfortable. If they can't get past that and give it 
> a try, that's okay as well - languages fit people in different ways, 
> there's no 'best' language for the masses. 
>
> This quote feels relevant: Programmers know the benefits of everything 
> and the tradeoffs of nothing -- Rich Hickey. Lisp syntax is one of the 
> oldest in our industry. Rich's selection wasn't arbitrary. If you want 
> to challenge it, you're going to want to know the tradeoffs very, very 
> well. 
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Softaddicts 
> > wrote: 
> > isolating the syntax from the other features of the language is a like 
> removing 
> > a part from a rocket engine however small it may be and wondering if it 
> will lift off 
> > without it. 
> > 
> > Macros are the first thing you may think of related to syntax change I 
> am convinced that other areas benefit from the syntax. 
> > It's early here and without caffein I will not even attempt to make a 
> list.. 
> > 
> > Who would choose a tool based on its syntax alone ? 
> > A tool = feature set = more or less productivity. 
> > 
> > We're not in a grocery store choosing between a banana and a cauliflower 
> based on their respective color to accompany a steak.  Banana + steak ? 
> > Wow... maybe some chef tried it or will but personally I pass, 
> > as good looking as the banana might be :) It's like emacs to me (joking 
> here guys :) 
> > 
> > Your poll has only two questions, I would have added at least a third 
> one, how many programming languages have you been using at work ? 
> > Maybe a fourth one, for how many years have you been programming ? 
> > 
> > How much weight does the first answer have if you do not assess the 
> comparison 
> > basis of people answering the first question ? I would probably drop the 
> second one. 
> > 
> > A pool looks like a simple tool but it's hard work to put together 
> questions 
> > to get meaningful data. 
> > 
> > Luc P. 
> > 
> >> Hi, 
> >> > I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether 
> people > actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I 
> would like > to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You. 
> >> > Here's the link: 
> > 
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>  
> >> > Răzvan 
> >> > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
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> >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with 
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Re: [ANN] bouncer 0.2.3-beta4

[Leonardo Borges]

Hi All,

I just pushed 0.2.3 final to Clojars. There are no changes since beta4
below.

As always, feedback is welcome.

Cheers,
Leonardo Borges
www.leonardoborges.com


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Leonardo Borges <
leonardoborges...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> bouncer is a validation DSL for Clojure apps
>
> Github: https://github.com/leonardoborges/bouncer
> Clojars: https://clojars.org/bouncer
>
> New in version 0.2.3-beta4:
>
> - Validator sets can now be used at the top level call to validate and
> valid?
> - Added tests and a doc section around validation pipelining. It was an
> undocumented assumption.
> - Initial support for inter-field validation via validator pre-conditions
> (alpha)
> - Bug fixes
>
> Please have a look at the 
> CHANGELOG 
> for
> details.
>
> As always, feedback is welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> Leonardo Borges
> www.leonardoborges.com
>

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Re: Should ` ` be trimmed using `clojure.string/trim`? EOM

[Tim Visher]

Hi Andy,

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Andy Fingerhut
 wrote:
> Clojure's clojure.string/trim uses Java's String/trim, but
> clojure.string/triml and trimr use Java's Character/isWhitespace to
> determine which characters are white space to remove.  CLJ-935 has a
> suggested patch to make them all use Character/isWhitespace:
>
> http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-935
>
> Character/isWhitespace doesn't consider Unicode code point 0x00A0 a
> whitespace character, either, though.  Java's Character/isSpaceChar does,
> but neither of those Java methods recognize a set of whitespace characters
> that is a superset of the other.  Fun, eh?

Thanks for the pointer to the ticket.

Since I can't seem to comment on the ticket there, wouldn't it make
sense to make trim blow away anything that isWhitespace or isSpaceChar
returns true for? I get the problem with the host platform's trim
method not agreeing, but semantically trim is supposed to trim
whitespace from the beginning and end of a string, and either of those
two methods are talking about whitespace (albeit in subtly different
ways for whatever reason).

> I'd recommend writing your own trim that gets rid of exactly what you want.
> Start by copying from the existing triml or the version of trim in the patch
> for CLJ-935 and tailoring the condition for whitespace characters to your
> heart's desire.

I got around the problem by taking a more 'declarative' approach and
removing everything in the string that wasn't a digit. That's probably
more forward compatible anyway but of course could lead to false
positives in the code elsewhere.

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Re: newbie struggling with Clooj and jars

[Jason Turner]

Thanks very much - that explains it, I didn't realize that Leiningen 
behaviour had changed from what Clooj expects - I could see the jars were 
in the Maven repo.

On Monday, 12 August 2013 00:51:10 UTC+1, yair wrote:
>
> The problem is that clooj depends on leiningen 1 which used to have the 
> dependencies in the /lib directory of the project.  Leiningen 2 use the 
> maven repo directory (typically ~/.m2) for dependencies and builds the 
> classpath directly to those jars, which you can check by running 'lein 
> classpath'.  In order to get this working with clooj, you have to make 
> leiningen behave the same way as v1, which you can do by running the 
> following commands every time you change your dependencies:
>
> lein pom
> mvn dependency:copy-dependencies -DoutputDirectory=lib
>
> On Sunday, August 11, 2013 4:32:20 PM UTC+10, Jason Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm also having this problem. I just started playing with Clojure, Lein 
>> and Clooj and am working with the Halloway Programming Clojure book next to 
>> me. I'm was just trying to do some file reading using 
>> clojure-contrib.duck-streams and is working in Lein but somehow not in 
>> Clooj. I can see the correct jars will get picked up on the classpath in 
>> Lein, and from what you say that means should definitely be picked up into 
>> Clooj REPL also - is there a means of checking the Clooj classpath directly?
>>
>> Anyhow only just started, but does all look very promising - Clojure, 
>> Lein and Clooj
>>
>

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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Jay Fields]

I'll repeat something I've said publicly several times (sorry if
you've previously heard it) -

My first exposure to Clojure was a Stu Halloway blog post:
http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/tags/java-next. At the time I was
writing mostly Ruby & some Java. I remember finding Clojure syntax
repulsive. Despite my gut reaction, I gave Clojure a shot for various
(not relevant to this conversation) reasons.

Fast forward to today, I find non-homoiconic languages to be
repulsive. The same feeling applies to inconsistencies - e.g. import
syntax != assignment syntax != control flow syntax ... you get the
idea.

I think it's common, and okay, for programmers to see Clojure (lisp?)
syntax and feel uncomfortable. If they can't get past that and give it
a try, that's okay as well - languages fit people in different ways,
there's no 'best' language for the masses.

This quote feels relevant: Programmers know the benefits of everything
and the tradeoffs of nothing -- Rich Hickey. Lisp syntax is one of the
oldest in our industry. Rich's selection wasn't arbitrary. If you want
to challenge it, you're going to want to know the tradeoffs very, very
well.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Softaddicts
 wrote:
> isolating the syntax from the other features of the language is a like 
> removing
> a part from a rocket engine however small it may be and wondering if it will 
> lift off
> without it.
>
> Macros are the first thing you may think of related to syntax change I am 
> convinced that other areas benefit from the syntax.
> It's early here and without caffein I will not even attempt to make a list..
>
> Who would choose a tool based on its syntax alone ?
> A tool = feature set = more or less productivity.
>
> We're not in a grocery store choosing between a banana and a cauliflower 
> based on their respective color to accompany a steak.  Banana + steak ?
> Wow... maybe some chef tried it or will but personally I pass,
> as good looking as the banana might be :) It's like emacs to me (joking here 
> guys :)
>
> Your poll has only two questions, I would have added at least a third one, 
> how many programming languages have you been using at work ?
> Maybe a fourth one, for how many years have you been programming ?
>
> How much weight does the first answer have if you do not assess the comparison
> basis of people answering the first question ? I would probably drop the 
> second one.
>
> A pool looks like a simple tool but it's hard work to put together questions
> to get meaningful data.
>
> Luc P.
>
>> Hi,
>> > I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether 
>> > people > actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I 
>> > would like > to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
>> > Here's the link:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
>> > Răzvan
>> > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
>> > Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
>> first post.
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>> > > --
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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Softaddicts]

isolating the syntax from the other features of the language is a like removing
a part from a rocket engine however small it may be and wondering if it will 
lift off
without it.

Macros are the first thing you may think of related to syntax change I am 
convinced that other areas benefit from the syntax.
It's early here and without caffein I will not even attempt to make a list..

Who would choose a tool based on its syntax alone ?
A tool = feature set = more or less productivity.

We're not in a grocery store choosing between a banana and a cauliflower based 
on their respective color to accompany a steak.  Banana + steak ?
Wow... maybe some chef tried it or will but personally I pass,
as good looking as the banana might be :) It's like emacs to me (joking here 
guys :)

Your poll has only two questions, I would have added at least a third one, how 
many programming languages have you been using at work ?
Maybe a fourth one, for how many years have you been programming ?

How much weight does the first answer have if you do not assess the comparison
basis of people answering the first question ? I would probably drop the second 
one.

A pool looks like a simple tool but it's hard work to put together questions
to get meaningful data.

Luc P.

> Hi,
> > I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether people 
> > > actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I would 
> > like > to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
> > Here's the link:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform
> > Răzvan
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Re: Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Alan Forrester]

On 12 Aug 2013, at 08:52, Răzvan Rotaru  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether people 
> actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I would like 
> to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.
> 
> Here's the link:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform

Do you have arguments against Clojure's current syntax?

Alan

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Do you like the Clojure syntax?

[Răzvan Rotaru]

Hi,

I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether people 
actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I would like 
to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You.

Here's the link:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform

Răzvan

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