Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade
As far as I know if you have AWS and AWA you only need boat speed through the water to get TWS and TWA which is shown by True on the i60 wind. If you want to display the magnetic angle from where the wind is coming from, such as on an old ST50 multidisplay, then you need boat heading which comes from the fluxgate compass ( usually connected to the Autohelm ). Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:24:55 -0300 From: Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade Message-ID: CAAbfP6QiGDUfVKUJ7_q4WOE=OUVDP=jcu7q3ppcs9b_zj-y...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sorry Fred, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the true wind display on a Raymatine i60 Wind. Raymarine Tech online says it needs a source of heading (and speed through the water which it gets from the i50 Speed already installed) to be able to display true wind? What are possible sources for heading? Can my old Simrad/Robertson Autopilot provide that info to the i60 with some sort of NMEA 0183 to SeaTalkng converter? Ken H. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
We did some more testing yesterday. Batteries fully charged by solar panel would not start the engine with both buttons held down after 20 seconds of glow plugs. Started fine with start button alone. Batteries read about 12.7v and rapidly went down to 12.5 after 15 seconds of glow plugs. The voltage continued to drop over time as you hold down the glow plug, so I did not push this for any longer. Fuel pump essentially stopped when this happened. Plugged into shore power, at first got the same result. After charging for a few minutes, we were able to start with both buttons on the first try, but not the second try. After waiting a few minutes, it again started on the first try and not the second. In general, there was a correlation that the longer the charge, the longer the glow plug button could be held in and still get the engine turning with the start button. When removed from shore power, the battery would rapidly return to not being able to start with both buttons. It seems clear that there is not enough power in the batteries to power the glow plugs and close the solenoid (or turn the starter) at the same time. At one point we measured 4V at the solenoid with the glow plug button in and the start button in when it did not turn over. Does shore power actually charge the battery to a higher state than the solar panel? One thing I noticed while working in there is the wiring harness connector. I had read the article that Josh pointed to on Maine Cruising and while my connector does not look exactly like the one in the picture, it also does not look good. I tried to get it apart and failed which is not a good sign, but did not want to force it. I am thinking that a winter project is going to be to either butt splice all 8 wires or put in a terminal block as the writer describes (not sure where I would put this). I also checked the connection to the solenoid and fuse and those looked fine (cleaned them anyway). For now, the answer I am left with is: things work as wired, but not as well as would be expected. There is a problem, but it is not a big one. Go sailing. Have fun. Fix the wiring harness and see if that changes anything. Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal 40
And in another place: http://www.westerbeke.com/technical%20manual/200154_m30-m40-m50_technical_man.pdf Dennis C. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Here: http://l-36.com/read_pdf.php?file=manuals11/200157_M12-M50_Operator_Man.pdftitle=Universal+Diesel++M+40+Operator%27s+Manual Joel On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:53 AM, John Russo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A friend just purchased a 1984 Bristol 38 with a Universal 40 engine and wondered if anyone could provide a wiring diagram for the engine and electrical control panel etc that he can use as a starter diagram to help trace out his wiring. I have been following the recent discussions re glow plugs etc. and he does have as two button panel for the glow plugs and starter and found a disconnected solenoid. Thanks, John 1984 Arpeggio Norwalk, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Universal 40
A friend just purchased a 1984 Bristol 38 with a Universal 40 engine and wondered if anyone could provide a wiring diagram for the engine and electrical control panel etc that he can use as a starter diagram to help trace out his wiring. I have been following the recent discussions re glow plugs etc. and he does have as two button panel for the glow plugs and starter and found a disconnected solenoid. Thanks, John 1984 Arpeggio Norwalk, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal 40
Here: http://l-36.com/read_pdf.php?file=manuals11/200157_M12-M50_Operator_Man.pdftitle=Universal+Diesel++M+40+Operator%27s+Manual Joel On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:53 AM, John Russo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A friend just purchased a 1984 Bristol 38 with a Universal 40 engine and wondered if anyone could provide a wiring diagram for the engine and electrical control panel etc that he can use as a starter diagram to help trace out his wiring. I have been following the recent discussions re glow plugs etc. and he does have as two button panel for the glow plugs and starter and found a disconnected solenoid. Thanks, John 1984 Arpeggio Norwalk, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade
If your ST60 is giving you True readings then you have boat speed through the water wired in to the Seatalk bus. I would guess you have a through hull paddle wheel connected to a Speed or TriData unit. That is all you need for the new i series, though somewhere there will be the need to convert from Seatalk to SeatalkNG. Or connect the paddle wheel to a new i series display. When I installed a new SPX/5 Autohelm, i70 display, and converter I found the Raymarine documentation a bit disjointed, lacking in a correct example of what I was doing, and in one case was wrong in overview. They showed the Seatalk and SeatalkNG buses being connected to the SPX/5, which you can do, but it does not do any conversion or anything useful. I would normally only make a connection if there was some benefit to it. So ask away if you have any questions. For most people not racing knowing where the wind is coming from, ie a magnetic direction, can be useful but maybe not critical. In racing I use it to guess what sail might be best for VMG around the next mark. I have both symmetrical and asymmetrical spinnakers, so there is a choice. On the longer distance races even seconds count, so guessing at a heading, sail and sail trim helps. Winning by 68 seconds on a 27 hours race - priceless ;-) Mike Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:48:02 -0300 From: dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade Message-ID: CAAX9F+FJ2ff99mQNc8Zwoeizmjki3PmW8irAp-B5n7_o=zx...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 so my old Raymarine st 60 wind instrument gives me apparent wind speed and angle and true wind speed and angle at the push of a button...I figured those measurements were close enough to accuarte to be good enough for my sailing needs...I don't think boat speed or heading or anything else is required...are the newer units different Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List plumbing...
I know this has been discussed a bit before; but I had yet another “aneurysm” to the original 1979 plastic hose coming out of my water heater while motoring last weekend; which is pushing me into some drastic measures regarding my water system. Yes, it’s all still original; stained plastic hose and all. I need to replace it, and I’ve looked at the Whale snap-together system, in addition to the Sea Tech system from Wells. I have also recently been looking at the snap-together Sharkbite fittings and tubing from Home Depot; as I recall, there have been comments from other listers about this system. I’m tempted to go this route due to the fact that my system is pretty simple, and the easy availability and relatively low cost from Home Depot (as opposed to someplace like West Marine, where it says “boat” on it and costs twice as much). Comments, please? Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Water pump seal replacement
FYI, Depco Pump has lots of pump parts. http://www.depcopump.com/MarineCatalog-111/MarineCatalog111.html Dennis C. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:31 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Raw water pumps are all basically the same. I think it can be done on your level, take your time and use your phones camera to document each step. When taking it apart lay the parts out in order of disassembly. Reassemble inreverse order. The parts break down is usually a good indication of how it all goes together. Just make sure that the seals go together with the springs away from each other. One seals out water the other oil. Clean the shaft with very fine sandpaper (400+ grit or red scotch bright)and lube the shaft with a light coating of grease during assembly. Small smooth groves are not critical. But there should be no sharp edges. The seals should be interchangeable. Check youtube for a video. They have them for everything. Sorry for jumping all over I am typing this on my phone. Good luck. Doug Mountjoy svPegasus LF38 just west of Ballard, WA. -- Original message-- *From: *Charlie Nelson via CnC-List *Date: *Thu, Aug 13, 2015 11:12 *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com; *Cc: *cenel...@aol.com; *Subject:*Stus-List Water pump seal replacement My Beta 28 HP diesel, circa 2001, has developed a sea water leak on the engine side/aft 'end' of the Jabasco (I think) pump which is driven directly by the engine, not by a belt. This engine has a primary coolant which is cooled by this water pump circulating sea water thru a heat exchanger. BTW, the front/forward side of the pump, which has a speed seal plate on it and from which the impeller can be changed, is not leaking at all. According to Beta NC (located fortunately about 15 minutes from my boat!), I need to replace the shaft seal(s?), assuming the shaft is not scored, etc. My interpretation of the exploded parts diagram is that the pump, once disconnected from the inlet and outlet hoses and block(?), should slide off the shaft, exposing the seals for removal and replacement. Murphy being a sailor, however, I have visions of the entire shaft either coming out or not being able to remove the pump without a wheel puller, etc. Although they claim it can be done without a diesel mechanic or yard involved, I am a little reluctant to do it since if I can't get it back together, I might not even be able to move the boat to the yard (about 1/4 mile away) since I might not have any secondary water cooling. Has anyone on the list done this for a Beta engine and if so, was it a reasonable job for what I like to call 'operator maintenance' or should it be attempted only by someone at the 'shop level' maintenance? I have looked on-line and none of the discussions are about doing this for a Beta--lots of stuff on Perkins, M-4, etc. Thanks, Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Water pump seal replacement
My Beta 28 HP diesel, circa 2001, has developed a sea water leak on the engine side/aft 'end' of the Jabasco (I think) pump which is driven directly by the engine, not by a belt. This engine has a primary coolant which is cooled by this water pump circulating sea water thru a heat exchanger. BTW, the front/forward side of the pump, which has a speed seal plate on it and from which the impeller can be changed, is not leaking at all. According to Beta NC (located fortunately about 15 minutes from my boat!), I need to replace the shaft seal(s?), assuming the shaft is not scored, etc. My interpretation of the exploded parts diagram is that the pump, once disconnected from the inlet and outlet hoses and block(?), should slide off the shaft, exposing the seals for removal and replacement. Murphy being a sailor, however, I have visions of the entire shaft either coming out or not being able to remove the pump without a wheel puller, etc. Although they claim it can be done without a diesel mechanic or yard involved, I am a little reluctant to do it since if I can't get it back together, I might not even be able to move the boat to the yard (about 1/4 mile away) since I might not have any secondary water cooling. Has anyone on the list done this for a Beta engine and if so, was it a reasonable job for what I like to call 'operator maintenance' or should it be attempted only by someone at the 'shop level' maintenance? I have looked on-line and none of the discussions are about doing this for a Beta--lots of stuff on Perkins, M-4, etc. Thanks, Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: You didn't mention a solenoid for the glo-plugs. Did i miss that? Without a solenoid for the glo-plugs (and fuel pump) then just as the second article stated (which is supported by your description of the connector) the panel is providing all 24amps of current which is the choke point for the pullin voltage of the starter solenoid. When on the shore power charger you can see voltages of as much as 14.7v which must be high enough to meet the pullin voltage. The wiring diagram for my Universal 25XPB definitely shows a Preheat Solenoid. It also shows the power to the start button coming from the preheat switch. Dennis C. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Water pump seal replacement
Raw water pumps are all basically the same. I think it can be done on your level, take your time and use your phones camera to document each step. When taking it apart lay the parts out in order of disassembly. Reassemble inreverse order. The parts break down is usually a good indication of how it all goes together. Just make sure that the seals go together with the springs away from each other. One seals out water the other oil. Clean the shaft with very fine sandpaper (400+ grit or red scotch bright)and lube the shaft with a light coating of grease during assembly. Small smooth groves are not critical. But there should be no sharp edges. The seals should be interchangeable. Check youtube for a video. They have them for everything. Sorry for jumping all over I am typing this on my phone. Good luck. Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA. -- Original message--From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List Date: Thu, Aug 13, 2015 11:12To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: cenel...@aol.com;Subject:Stus-List Water pump seal replacement My Beta 28 HP diesel, circa 2001, has developed a sea water leak on the engine side/aft 'end' of the Jabasco (I think) pump which is driven directly by the engine,not by a belt. This engine has a primary coolant which is cooled by this water pump circulating sea water thru a heat exchanger. BTW, the front/forward side of the pump, whichhas a speed seal plate on it and from which the impeller can be changed, is not leaking at all. According to Beta NC (located fortunately about 15 minutes from my boat!), I need to replace the shaft seal(s?), assuming the shaft is not scored, etc. My interpretation of the exploded parts diagram is that the pump, once disconnected from the inlet and outlet hoses and block(?), should slide off the shaft,exposing the seals for removal and replacement. Murphy being a sailor, however, I have visions of the entire shaft either coming out or not being able to remove the pump without a wheel puller, etc. Although they claim it can be done without a diesel mechanic or yard involved, I am a little reluctant to do it since if I can't get it back together,I might not even be able to move the boat to the yard (about 1/4 mile away) since I might not have any secondary water cooling. Has anyone on the list done this for a Beta engine and if so, was it a reasonable job for what I like to call 'operator maintenance'or should it be attempted only by someone at the 'shop level' maintenance? I have looked on-line and none of the discussions are about doing this for a Beta--lots of stuff on Perkins, M-4, etc. Thanks, Charlie NelsonWater PhantomCC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Water pump seal replacement
Seems like something I would attempt. You might find a selection of sockets and an extension to be a valuable alternative to a press for getting the seals in and out. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 13, 2015 2:12 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My Beta 28 HP diesel, circa 2001, has developed a sea water leak on the engine side/aft 'end' of the Jabasco (I think) pump which is driven directly by the engine, not by a belt. This engine has a primary coolant which is cooled by this water pump circulating sea water thru a heat exchanger. BTW, the front/forward side of the pump, which has a speed seal plate on it and from which the impeller can be changed, is not leaking at all. According to Beta NC (located fortunately about 15 minutes from my boat!), I need to replace the shaft seal(s?), assuming the shaft is not scored, etc. My interpretation of the exploded parts diagram is that the pump, once disconnected from the inlet and outlet hoses and block(?), should slide off the shaft, exposing the seals for removal and replacement. Murphy being a sailor, however, I have visions of the entire shaft either coming out or not being able to remove the pump without a wheel puller, etc. Although they claim it can be done without a diesel mechanic or yard involved, I am a little reluctant to do it since if I can't get it back together, I might not even be able to move the boat to the yard (about 1/4 mile away) since I might not have any secondary water cooling. Has anyone on the list done this for a Beta engine and if so, was it a reasonable job for what I like to call 'operator maintenance' or should it be attempted only by someone at the 'shop level' maintenance? I have looked on-line and none of the discussions are about doing this for a Beta--lots of stuff on Perkins, M-4, etc. Thanks, Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
As a note, the wiring diagram shows the preheat solenoid on the engine side of the harness connector. That leads me to believe it is attached to the engine and is not at the panel. Further, the hot lead to the solenoid is a #10 red wire from the hot connection on the starter solenoid. Follow that and it may lead to the preheat solenoid. I intend to look at my engine next time I'm on the boat just to find it. I'm not good on engines so I want to find this thing. Dennis C. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Yes, but he didn't mention the existence of one. It sounds like it was removed or bypassed and the start push button power moved up stream of the glo-plug button. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 2:21 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: You didn't mention a solenoid for the glo-plugs. Did i miss that? Without a solenoid for the glo-plugs (and fuel pump) then just as the second article stated (which is supported by your description of the connector) the panel is providing all 24amps of current which is the choke point for the pullin voltage of the starter solenoid. When on the shore power charger you can see voltages of as much as 14.7v which must be high enough to meet the pullin voltage. The wiring diagram for my Universal 25XPB definitely shows a Preheat Solenoid. It also shows the power to the start button coming from the preheat switch. Dennis C. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
Patrick, I have a similar system on my 35/3, but rather than having a slide stop I have a metal plate (a gate) that (sort of) allows the slides to stay in the slot while dropping to the boom. That allows me to use the horn. A rigger can make a plate that screws on and eliminates the stop. As far as when to reef, it depends on wind angle, wind speed, seas and who is onboard. Upwind cruising, when apparent wind is over 18 knots I usually reef with my 135 up. If heeling over 20 degrees it makes sense to reef. My halyard is pre-marked for the proper spot. I ease the sheet, drop the halyard to the proper spot, head up if necessary to get the sail to drop, put the ring on the horn, return to the cockpit and yank on the reefing line. Then trim main. Hope that helps. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have some questions on reefing. I know the basics, but want to get more advanced so that it's easy even in challenging conditions. Especially learning any handling characteristics that are specific to CC's. Difficulty reefing was the one of the few sail handling issues we had on our cruise of Vancouver Island last month. Typical Puget Sound summer winds are under 20 kts, so our practice reefing has always been relatively easy. But in 25 kts (gusting to 30?) with 6-10 foot sharp waves from current and wind driven water stacking up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca approaching Race Rocks it was a whole different experience and somewhat scary. (and yes I know, reef early, reef often, but I don't need that lecture ;) Besides, it doesn't change the fact you have to know how to reef in 25 to 40 knots, because if you're ever in those winds you'll need to put the 2nd or 3rd reef in). Anyone here have a procedure for easy reefing (or easier than what I'm doing at least), that doesn’t involve ponying up $3000 to $5000 to install a new mainsail track? (guessing it might cost that much or more if the main sail needed to be replaced or restitched with new slides) Or is that basically an impossible wish? (ie, reefing in difficult conditions will always be difficult) A few questions: - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? (keeping in mind that we're cruisers, not racers, so our priority is keeping boat speed up without being uncomfortable or expending too much energy) - The mainsail 1st reef tack cringle doesn't reach down to the reefing horn on the boom, because the sail slides are stacked up on the track stopper (which cannot go any lower, and prevents the slides from falling out of the track). So I've taken to tying a line through it and tensioning that around a deck cleat. Should I actually be removing the track stopper, moving 3 or 4 sail slides below the stopper (loose) and reinserting the stopper? That would be a major PITA, but I think the existing situation is causing the reef tack to be a bit too high, which likewise causes the reef clew point on the leech to be a bit high. - Is it essential to release the vang before reefing? What's the reason that's often recommended? Is it to make the foot of the sail slack and billowy rather than flat, in order to make the clew reef point easier to pull in? Some info on the current setup: - single line reefing with the line run back to the cockpit. Not run through the luff (tack) cringle (I may change this though), so I have to go forward to tie down the reef's tack. - It's what's shown in Single line and cowhorn on this page: http://www.offshore-sailor.com/index.php/seamanship-and-boat-handling/5-reefing-systems.html - I could switch to full on jiffy reefing (run the line through the tack cringle) but am worried there's already too much friction in the system. - mainsail track is built-in to the mast, standard “T shaped” track with plastic sail slides and 2 cars on the top two full battens. - I lubed the sail slides with Mclube Sailkote a few months ago. That helped, but there’s no way the sail will drop with 25 kts of wind pressure on it when sailing off the wind (below a beam reach). I’m not sure even the best mainsail tracks truly allow you to drop sail on a broad reach in 25 kts anyway. We managed to do the reef by going to a close reach or close haul with the genoa at ~100% and luffing the main. But this makes a tremendous racket as the wind slammed the boom around in the minute or two it took to get the reef in. Which can’t be good for the sail and hardware. I probably should have sheeted in a bit more so it wasn’t luffing so bad. But it still would’ve been bad. I’d rather not have to use this procedure for reefing to begin with. Is there a better strategy? -Patrick S/V Violet Hour, LF38 Seattle, WA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list
Re: Stus-List Yanmar Heat Exchanger
If the precombustion chambers get stuck again, I pull the fuel shutoff and turn (bump) the engine over with the injectors out. It doesn't hurt to have something to cushion the chamber as it is ejected from the port. I think the aluminum sleeve is fine. I can't figure out how it would work with out holes in it. It has to have coolant on the inside and outside. Just as long as the saltwater tubes don't leak you should be fine. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 13, 2015 4:16 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Well, I bought a CC 37+ a few weeks ago and have been having nothing but trouble. It started with a fuel injector seal failure that allowed combustion gases to escape into the cabin. Below the injectors are pre-combustion chamber that where frozen in place requiring the cylinder head to be removed. While the head was out, I decided to do a valve job. And since the heat exchanger had to be removed, I decided to have it cleaned out at a radiator shop. There is an aluminum sleeve around the cooling tubes in the heat exchanger that had perforated. My understanding is that raw water circulates through the tubes and fresh water surrounds them. It seems there is fresh water on both the inside and outside of the aluminum tube, so I'm not sure if the perforations are a problem. The radiator shop guy wasn't sure either. It wouldn't matter, except the heat exchanger is no longer available from Yanmar and the cooling tube assembly is $1K, and can only be replace if (big if) I can get the frozen one out. What happens if I ignore the problem? The radiator guy pressure tested the assembly and it held pressure. Any ideas? I'm really desperate! Gary '90 CC 37+ High Maintenance East Greenwich, RI, USA ~~~_/)~~ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
A gate is easy to build and fit to the mast to allow the slides to go all the way down to the gooseneck. You might have to modify it a bit to fit your track. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/sailgate/sailgate.htm Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 13 August 2015 at 14:32, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: See response inline. On Aug 13, 2015 4:53 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have some questions on reefing. I know the basics, but want to get more advanced so that it's easy even in challenging conditions. Especially learning any handling characteristics that are specific to CC's. Difficulty reefing was the one of the few sail handling issues we had on our cruise of Vancouver Island last month. Typical Puget Sound summer winds are under 20 kts, so our practice reefing has always been relatively easy. But in 25 kts (gusting to 30?) with 6-10 foot sharp waves from current and wind driven water stacking up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca approaching Race Rocks it was a whole different experience and somewhat scary. (and yes I know, reef early, reef often, but I don't need that lecture ;) Besides, it doesn't change the fact you have to know how to reef in 25 to 40 knots, because if you're ever in those winds you'll need to put the 2nd or 3rd reef in). Anyone here have a procedure for easy reefing (or easier than what I'm doing at least), that doesn’t involve ponying up $3000 to $5000 to install a new mainsail track? (guessing it might cost that much or more if the main sail needed to be replaced or restitched with new slides) Or is that basically an impossible wish? (ie, reefing in difficult conditions will always be difficult) A few questions: - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? This is really a function of wind speed not boat speed. More importantly TWS not AWS. With my 37+ i can carry full sails to ~15kts but it is getting uncomfortable and increasingly difficult to reef. (keeping in mind that we're cruisers, not racers, so our priority is keeping boat speed up without being uncomfortable or expending too much energy) - The mainsail 1st reef tack cringle doesn't reach down to the reefing horn on the boom, because the sail slides are stacked up on the track stopper (which cannot go any lower, and prevents the slides from falling out of the track). So I've taken to tying a line through it and tensioning that around a deck cleat. Should I actually be removing the track stopper, moving 3 or 4 sail slides below the stopper (loose) and reinserting the stopper? That would be a major PITA, but I think the existing situation is causing the reef tack to be a bit too high, which likewise causes the reef clew point on the leech to be a bit high. Do you have dog bones? They help me but I'm not doing a single line setup. I have to ease the halyard and then go forward and hook a ring on the dog bone. - Is it essential to release the vang before reefing? What's the reason that's often recommended? Is it to make the foot of the sail slack and billowy rather than flat, in order to make the clew reef point easier to pull in? You have to release the all functions which are pulling down on the boom so that you can tighten the halyard without overly tightening the leach of the sail. You may even find that lifting the boom with the topping lift helps. Some info on the current setup: - single line reefing with the line run back to the cockpit. Not run through the luff (tack) cringle (I may change this though), so I have to go forward to tie down the reef's tack. - It's what's shown in Single line and cowhorn on this page: http://www.offshore-sailor.com/index.php/seamanship-and-boat-handling/5-reefing-systems.html - I could switch to full on jiffy reefing (run the line through the tack cringle) but am worried there's already too much friction in the system. - mainsail track is built-in to the mast, standard “T shaped” track with plastic sail slides and 2 cars on the top two full battens. - I lubed the sail slides with Mclube Sailkote a few months ago. That helped, but there’s no way the sail will drop with 25 kts of wind pressure on it when sailing off the wind (below a beam reach). I’m not sure even the best mainsail tracks truly allow you to drop sail on a broad reach in 25 kts anyway. A batt-car system or a tides marine strong track may not let you drop the sail but it will certainly help make it easier. We managed to do the reef by going to a close reach or close haul with the genoa at ~100% and luffing the main. But this makes a tremendous racket as the wind slammed the boom around in the minute or two it took to get the reef in. Which can’t be good for the sail and hardware. I probably should have sheeted
Re: Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
Heaving to is balance between the backwards thrust of the headsail, the forward thrust of the mainsail and the rudder hard over keeping the whole thing going. You're also balancing the rotation of the boat about the keel. The headsail is trying to turn the boat off the wind and the mainsail and rudder are trying to turn it up into wind. If the sails are balanced while moving the boat forward then they should be close to balanced while going backwards. That being said, I don't like having more than ~100% when heaving-to since this means that the sail may be riding on the mast. More than ~100% unfurled is fine just make sure to ease the sheet enough to prevent the sail from riding on the mast. Adjust the mainsheet well above center line provides more counter rotation to the headsail AND more movement backwards giving the rudder more control. Adjust the mainsheet below center line and you should get less counter rotation and more forward thrust. This slows the boat but may not leave enough control with the rudder. Some boats don't hove-to. Period. Some don't do well in different wind and wave conditions. Employing a drouge might be helpful for some of these boats. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 13, 2015 6:17 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I'm splitting this out from my reefing email because that one was getting big (sorry!) and heaving to seems big enough to be a separate topic. I searched the archive but didn't find too much on what configurations people have found work best. Two questions really - - What sail config leads to a good heave-to for your boat in moderately high winds (25-35 kts)? On an LF38 with 130% genoa I've already figured out a 130% genoa is too much fore sail to heave to well in winds above 15. When we heaved to in 15 kts with full genoa the bow was fluctuating between 70 to 90 degrees. Worked okay but not ideal. In 25 kts I furled to ~100% and it didn't work at all - the wind and waves blew the bow past a beam reach and we had to abort the heave-to. Helm was hard over alee (rudder to windward) and mainsail was trimmed in but the bow blew through 90 degrees, *fast*. Not fun. Does the boat heave-to best with no foresail at all when winds are over 25? - Is heaving to a good technique for putting a reef in? I read this idea somewhere and it seems to make sense - a nice calm boat so you can take your time getting reefed without all hell breaking loose. Haven't had a chance to try it in 25kts yet though (due to the abort I mentioned above). The key would be whether the main can be dumped (sheeted out) enough to take the pressure off the mainsail track, yet not mess up the heave-to. -Patrick S/V Violet Hour, LF38 Seattle, WA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
I’m not sure even the best mainsail tracks truly allow you to drop sail on a broad reach in 25 kts anyway. I've never heard of anyone reefing on a downwind run. Fully recognizing the high cost of adding a Harken Batt car system, if one is expecting to reef in all conditions including downwind it is a great investment. There are similar products at a lower price point and less invasive installation available. On Calypso with the Harken Batt car system and full battens I use most of the same reefing techniques described in earlier responses. My sail handling experience might be more in depth than some but I am able to put in the first reef in under 2 minutes, singlehanded. Calypso still has a wire reel main halyard winch which may actually simplify the process. At the mast I have the main halyard, dog bone to the tack horn, and the reef line all close by. I do ease the vang and main sheet quite a bit to avoid pulling against a bigger winch. I do not use the jack stays as the full battens keep the sail organized. It may make some noise but the sail flogging helps reduce friction. When reefing downwind, which I do both racing and cruising, the Batt cars substantially reduce friction from the mainsail luff but there is still friction and or interference from the sail/battens contacting the mast and spreaders. If the apparent wind speed is over 30 I have winched the boom in some to pull the lower sections off the rig. I do watch for stress on the sail as I pull it down. When helping a friend deliver his 56 foot fast cruiser to San Francisco from Seattle we spent 2 days in 30 to 45 downwind with seas to match. All 4 on board had offshore and racing experience and had sailed many miles together. We were standing 2 crew watches of 4 hours at night, 6 hours during the day. We had the #3 poled out and would roll it up or out based on the wind speed. For most of the time we had 1 reef in the main, adding the 2nd reef when needed. The boat had the Antal mast slide system which is different than the Harken but just as effective. The boat also had a powered mainsail halyard winch. We reefed or un-reefed downwind at will without waking the off watch. BTW, we averaged over 14 knots for 30 hours and I had the high speed at 24 knots. (45 knot gust + 30 foot seas = tighten sphincter + concerned owner.) Regarding heaving to: I have been able to get Calypso to heave to for a calmer deck when single-handing and needing to put in the second reef in gusts to 35. I had one reef in and the #3 partially rolled up. It took a little while to find just the right combo of sail, sheet, and rudder to get the boat settled. It was worth the effort as I had tucked in behind Bainbridge Island not far from Port Madison to get out of the worst of the seas. As I was single-handing I was being very cautious when going forward and wanted the boat as stable as possible. Regardless of which changes / improvements to reefing you select I do recommend practicing in moderate conditions. If you plan to sail at night practice when it is dark and moderate until your hands know where each line is without needing a flashlight. From my days as a foredeck guy on big IOR boats I strongly recommend always putting each line in the same place, the same way. Make your crew do the same thing. Once a really good case of ARSS* sets in, in the dark you will be able to reef with confidence as each line is in its place and easily found. (ARSS = Anal Retentive Sailors Syndrome. I have a team working on developing a purple pill to help this common but under treated condition.) Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Davin via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 1:53 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Patrick Davin Subject: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track? I have some questions on reefing. I know the basics, but want to get more advanced so that it's easy even in challenging conditions. Especially learning any handling characteristics that are specific to CC's. Difficulty reefing was the one of the few sail handling issues we had on our cruise of Vancouver Island last month. Typical Puget Sound summer winds are under 20 kts, so our practice reefing has always been relatively easy. But in 25 kts (gusting to 30?) with 6-10 foot sharp waves from current and wind driven water stacking up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca approaching Race Rocks it was a whole different experience and somewhat scary. (and yes I know, reef early, reef often, but I don't need that lecture ;) Besides, it doesn't change the fact you have to know how to reef in 25 to 40 knots, because if you're ever in those winds you'll need to put the 2nd or 3rd reef in). Anyone here have a procedure for easy reefing (or easier than what I'm doing at least),
Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
Yes, but he didn't mention the existence of one. It sounds like it was removed or bypassed and the start push button power moved up stream of the glo-plug button. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 2:21 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: You didn't mention a solenoid for the glo-plugs. Did i miss that? Without a solenoid for the glo-plugs (and fuel pump) then just as the second article stated (which is supported by your description of the connector) the panel is providing all 24amps of current which is the choke point for the pullin voltage of the starter solenoid. When on the shore power charger you can see voltages of as much as 14.7v which must be high enough to meet the pullin voltage. The wiring diagram for my Universal 25XPB definitely shows a Preheat Solenoid. It also shows the power to the start button coming from the preheat switch. Dennis C. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade- SPX-5 with Seatalk and SeatalkNG
I am guessing the e7d is SeatalkNG but the i40 is Seatalk. At least with my SPX/5 and firmware level there was no conversion between Seatalk and SeatalkNG. The converter was easy to install, though it would have been easier if I knew I needed it and hadn't dressed and tied all the cabling first. In my setup I did not connect the power lead between the Seatalk bus and the converter. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:30:03 -0400 From: PME dre...@gmail.com To: CnClist cnc-list@cnc-list.com, Michael Brown m...@tkg.ca Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade- SPX-5 with Seatalk and SeatalkNG Message-ID: 0e4d6c86-8083-4cc4-a6c4-17d20642e...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mike, I think I read the same Ray documentation which seemed to show that one could connect Seatalk and SeatalkNG devices via the SPX-5 controller. I installed my i40 speed system with Seatalk connector wired to the Seatalk ports on the SPX-5. It powers the i40 system, and the speed display works fine. I am planning on connecting the SPX-5 to my Raymarine e7d via SeatalkNG, and I was hoping the speed data would be sent to the e7d too. But it sounds like this does not work? Bummer! I guess I will need to use a Seatalk to SeatalknNG converter. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Electronics Upgrade
Reluctantly I’ve yielded to the logic and will be adding both a knot meter and dedicated radar/chart plotter. Fred - The Nobeltec radar product was interesting but I couldn’t get past the dedicated wifi network (or two wifi networks) Kudos to whoever first mentioned the need for the knot meter for wind apparent/true Weather-proofing was a concern. In the end I could handle any one of the three issues but combined they pushed me back to a traditional installation. Ray Marine all around (save for my existing BG autopilot). Thinking the Ray A9 plotter. Thanks for all the help. You just need to vet ideas somewhere. John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
Down wind in following seas with big waves can be a work out. I've never heard of anyone reefing on a downwind run. You must have had a lot of wind. When i sail downwind, wing and wing in big waves i always set a preventer. Most CCs don't have keels that make up a significant length of the boat so they turn easily and nimbley. Unfortunately that means big rollers from the rear can wash out the hips and spin the boat as the wave rolls under the boat. The helmsman has to work quick and anticipate. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 6:42 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks, good tips here. I want to minimize going forward. So using the topping lift is probably not something I'm going to do. Unless that were run back to the cockpit, but that seems excessive and I'd need to add clutches. I don't mind going forward in conditions with moderate or low waves, but this procedure I'm trying to improve is for big waves. I know 6-8' close spaced waves are not big to some of you, but it's enough that I'd rather minimize crew going forward in that. We did have jacklines and tethers in use. I don't have dog bones but plan to get them. We never rigged the 2nd reef point, so didn't need them (although we should have rigged it just in case). The sail gate is an excellent idea. * - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so *what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? This is really a function of wind speed not boat speed. More importantly TWS not AWS. With my 37+ i can carry full sails to ~15kts but it is getting uncomfortable and increasingly difficult to reef. Hmm, true, but we don't have a wind speed indicator yet so can't measure that. Just have to go by judgment. I thought some people used boat speed as a secondary indicator (eg, as you approach within X% of hull speed that's when you know it's reefing time). We were going downwind wing-on-wing at about 6.5-7 kts, then wing-on-wing started getting difficult so we switched to a standard broad reach. As boat speed started going over 7 that's when I knew it was time to reef. It's harder judging wind speed when going downwind so that's why I was hoping for another signal until I get a wind anemometer. Also usually am judging by helm, but that can be more a factor of waves sometimes. Helming was getting more difficult, with slightly greater than 1/4 turn movements to each side needed to stay on course (this may have been more a function of the waves, which were mostly dead aft but since they're coastal waves going around points they don't have a completely consistent direction). After reefing we continued downwind broad reach with single reefed main and 100% genoa but helming was still a lot of work so we furled the genoa and went on main alone. We were making about 5.5 - 6 kts then. I've also heard some people (one who said he raced on CCs) say CCs don't track well downwind. Is this what they mean? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
Patrick. There is no reason to heave to when reefing (assume you’re reefing the main). Luff the main or head up so that it can luff, drop the halyard (premarked is good) and then reef with either one or two lines. No mess, no fuss, 30 seconds at most. It can also be a one person job with autopilot. It can (and in many cases is) done in your sleep. If you’re working with jiffy reefing think about upgrading. Can’t hep on the heaving to sail combination. John On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I'm splitting this out from my reefing email because that one was getting big (sorry!) and heaving to seems big enough to be a separate topic. I searched the archive but didn't find too much on what configurations people have found work best. Two questions really - - What sail config leads to a good heave-to for your boat in moderately high winds (25-35 kts)? On an LF38 with 130% genoa I've already figured out a 130% genoa is too much fore sail to heave to well in winds above 15. When we heaved to in 15 kts with full genoa the bow was fluctuating between 70 to 90 degrees. Worked okay but not ideal. In 25 kts I furled to ~100% and it didn't work at all - the wind and waves blew the bow past a beam reach and we had to abort the heave-to. Helm was hard over alee (rudder to windward) and mainsail was trimmed in but the bow blew through 90 degrees, *fast*. Not fun. Does the boat heave-to best with no foresail at all when winds are over 25? - Is heaving to a good technique for putting a reef in? I read this idea somewhere and it seems to make sense - a nice calm boat so you can take your time getting reefed without all hell breaking loose. Haven't had a chance to try it in 25kts yet though (due to the abort I mentioned above). The key would be whether the main can be dumped (sheeted out) enough to take the pressure off the mainsail track, yet not mess up the heave-to. -Patrick S/V Violet Hour, LF38 Seattle, WA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
I'm splitting this out from my reefing email because that one was getting big (sorry!) and heaving to seems big enough to be a separate topic. I searched the archive but didn't find too much on what configurations people have found work best. Two questions really - - What sail config leads to a good heave-to for your boat in moderately high winds (25-35 kts)? On an LF38 with 130% genoa I've already figured out a 130% genoa is too much fore sail to heave to well in winds above 15. When we heaved to in 15 kts with full genoa the bow was fluctuating between 70 to 90 degrees. Worked okay but not ideal. In 25 kts I furled to ~100% and it didn't work at all - the wind and waves blew the bow past a beam reach and we had to abort the heave-to. Helm was hard over alee (rudder to windward) and mainsail was trimmed in but the bow blew through 90 degrees, *fast*. Not fun. Does the boat heave-to best with no foresail at all when winds are over 25? - Is heaving to a good technique for putting a reef in? I read this idea somewhere and it seems to make sense - a nice calm boat so you can take your time getting reefed without all hell breaking loose. Haven't had a chance to try it in 25kts yet though (due to the abort I mentioned above). The key would be whether the main can be dumped (sheeted out) enough to take the pressure off the mainsail track, yet not mess up the heave-to. -Patrick S/V Violet Hour, LF38 Seattle, WA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Yanmar Heat Exchanger
Hi Josh, Great input! Very clever idea for removing pre-combustion chamber as well. I wish I had thought of it sooner. Fair winds, Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: If the precombustion chambers get stuck again, I pull the fuel shutoff and turn (bump) the engine over with the injectors out. It doesn't hurt to have something to cushion the chamber as it is ejected from the port. I think the aluminum sleeve is fine. I can't figure out how it would work with out holes in it. It has to have coolant on the inside and outside. Just as long as the saltwater tubes don't leak you should be fine. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 13, 2015 4:16 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Well, I bought a CC 37+ a few weeks ago and have been having nothing but trouble. It started with a fuel injector seal failure that allowed combustion gases to escape into the cabin. Below the injectors are pre-combustion chamber that where frozen in place requiring the cylinder head to be removed. While the head was out, I decided to do a valve job. And since the heat exchanger had to be removed, I decided to have it cleaned out at a radiator shop. There is an aluminum sleeve around the cooling tubes in the heat exchanger that had perforated. My understanding is that raw water circulates through the tubes and fresh water surrounds them. It seems there is fresh water on both the inside and outside of the aluminum tube, so I'm not sure if the perforations are a problem. The radiator shop guy wasn't sure either. It wouldn't matter, except the heat exchanger is no longer available from Yanmar and the cooling tube assembly is $1K, and can only be replace if (big if) I can get the frozen one out. What happens if I ignore the problem? The radiator guy pressure tested the assembly and it held pressure. Any ideas? I'm really desperate! Gary '90 CC 37+ High Maintenance East Greenwich, RI, USA ~~~_/)~~ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
Thanks, good tips here. I want to minimize going forward. So using the topping lift is probably not something I'm going to do. Unless that were run back to the cockpit, but that seems excessive and I'd need to add clutches. I don't mind going forward in conditions with moderate or low waves, but this procedure I'm trying to improve is for big waves. I know 6-8' close spaced waves are not big to some of you, but it's enough that I'd rather minimize crew going forward in that. We did have jacklines and tethers in use. I don't have dog bones but plan to get them. We never rigged the 2nd reef point, so didn't need them (although we should have rigged it just in case). The sail gate is an excellent idea. * - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so *what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? This is really a function of wind speed not boat speed. More importantly TWS not AWS. With my 37+ i can carry full sails to ~15kts but it is getting uncomfortable and increasingly difficult to reef. Hmm, true, but we don't have a wind speed indicator yet so can't measure that. Just have to go by judgment. I thought some people used boat speed as a secondary indicator (eg, as you approach within X% of hull speed that's when you know it's reefing time). We were going downwind wing-on-wing at about 6.5-7 kts, then wing-on-wing started getting difficult so we switched to a standard broad reach. As boat speed started going over 7 that's when I knew it was time to reef. It's harder judging wind speed when going downwind so that's why I was hoping for another signal until I get a wind anemometer. Also usually am judging by helm, but that can be more a factor of waves sometimes. Helming was getting more difficult, with slightly greater than 1/4 turn movements to each side needed to stay on course (this may have been more a function of the waves, which were mostly dead aft but since they're coastal waves going around points they don't have a completely consistent direction). After reefing we continued downwind broad reach with single reefed main and 100% genoa but helming was still a lot of work so we furled the genoa and went on main alone. We were making about 5.5 - 6 kts then. I've also heard some people (one who said he raced on CCs) say CCs don't track well downwind. Is this what they mean? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
I have some questions on reefing. I know the basics, but want to get more advanced so that it's easy even in challenging conditions. Especially learning any handling characteristics that are specific to CC's. Difficulty reefing was the one of the few sail handling issues we had on our cruise of Vancouver Island last month. Typical Puget Sound summer winds are under 20 kts, so our practice reefing has always been relatively easy. But in 25 kts (gusting to 30?) with 6-10 foot sharp waves from current and wind driven water stacking up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca approaching Race Rocks it was a whole different experience and somewhat scary. (and yes I know, reef early, reef often, but I don't need that lecture ;) Besides, it doesn't change the fact you have to know how to reef in 25 to 40 knots, because if you're ever in those winds you'll need to put the 2nd or 3rd reef in). Anyone here have a procedure for easy reefing (or easier than what I'm doing at least), that doesn’t involve ponying up $3000 to $5000 to install a new mainsail track? (guessing it might cost that much or more if the main sail needed to be replaced or restitched with new slides) Or is that basically an impossible wish? (ie, reefing in difficult conditions will always be difficult) A few questions: - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? (keeping in mind that we're cruisers, not racers, so our priority is keeping boat speed up without being uncomfortable or expending too much energy) - The mainsail 1st reef tack cringle doesn't reach down to the reefing horn on the boom, because the sail slides are stacked up on the track stopper (which cannot go any lower, and prevents the slides from falling out of the track). So I've taken to tying a line through it and tensioning that around a deck cleat. Should I actually be removing the track stopper, moving 3 or 4 sail slides below the stopper (loose) and reinserting the stopper? That would be a major PITA, but I think the existing situation is causing the reef tack to be a bit too high, which likewise causes the reef clew point on the leech to be a bit high. - Is it essential to release the vang before reefing? What's the reason that's often recommended? Is it to make the foot of the sail slack and billowy rather than flat, in order to make the clew reef point easier to pull in? Some info on the current setup: - single line reefing with the line run back to the cockpit. Not run through the luff (tack) cringle (I may change this though), so I have to go forward to tie down the reef's tack. - It's what's shown in Single line and cowhorn on this page: http://www.offshore-sailor.com/index.php/seamanship-and-boat-handling/5-reefing-systems.html - I could switch to full on jiffy reefing (run the line through the tack cringle) but am worried there's already too much friction in the system. - mainsail track is built-in to the mast, standard “T shaped” track with plastic sail slides and 2 cars on the top two full battens. - I lubed the sail slides with Mclube Sailkote a few months ago. That helped, but there’s no way the sail will drop with 25 kts of wind pressure on it when sailing off the wind (below a beam reach). I’m not sure even the best mainsail tracks truly allow you to drop sail on a broad reach in 25 kts anyway. We managed to do the reef by going to a close reach or close haul with the genoa at ~100% and luffing the main. But this makes a tremendous racket as the wind slammed the boom around in the minute or two it took to get the reef in. Which can’t be good for the sail and hardware. I probably should have sheeted in a bit more so it wasn’t luffing so bad. But it still would’ve been bad. I’d rather not have to use this procedure for reefing to begin with. Is there a better strategy? -Patrick S/V Violet Hour, LF38 Seattle, WA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
As mentioned above, It is a combination of apparent wind and comfort level. If you are a cruiser then I would consider heaving to then reefing the main. The boat will be relatively flat and comfortable when you work on setting the reef. I used to do this when single/short handed and it was much easier. Eric CC 34/36 On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Patrick, I have a similar system on my 35/3, but rather than having a slide stop I have a metal plate (a gate) that (sort of) allows the slides to stay in the slot while dropping to the boom. That allows me to use the horn. A rigger can make a plate that screws on and eliminates the stop. As far as when to reef, it depends on wind angle, wind speed, seas and who is onboard. Upwind cruising, when apparent wind is over 18 knots I usually reef with my 135 up. If heeling over 20 degrees it makes sense to reef. My halyard is pre-marked for the proper spot. I ease the sheet, drop the halyard to the proper spot, head up if necessary to get the sail to drop, put the ring on the horn, return to the cockpit and yank on the reefing line. Then trim main. Hope that helps. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have some questions on reefing. I know the basics, but want to get more advanced so that it's easy even in challenging conditions. Especially learning any handling characteristics that are specific to CC's. Difficulty reefing was the one of the few sail handling issues we had on our cruise of Vancouver Island last month. Typical Puget Sound summer winds are under 20 kts, so our practice reefing has always been relatively easy. But in 25 kts (gusting to 30?) with 6-10 foot sharp waves from current and wind driven water stacking up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca approaching Race Rocks it was a whole different experience and somewhat scary. (and yes I know, reef early, reef often, but I don't need that lecture ;) Besides, it doesn't change the fact you have to know how to reef in 25 to 40 knots, because if you're ever in those winds you'll need to put the 2nd or 3rd reef in). Anyone here have a procedure for easy reefing (or easier than what I'm doing at least), that doesn’t involve ponying up $3000 to $5000 to install a new mainsail track? (guessing it might cost that much or more if the main sail needed to be replaced or restitched with new slides) Or is that basically an impossible wish? (ie, reefing in difficult conditions will always be difficult) A few questions: - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? (keeping in mind that we're cruisers, not racers, so our priority is keeping boat speed up without being uncomfortable or expending too much energy) - The mainsail 1st reef tack cringle doesn't reach down to the reefing horn on the boom, because the sail slides are stacked up on the track stopper (which cannot go any lower, and prevents the slides from falling out of the track). So I've taken to tying a line through it and tensioning that around a deck cleat. Should I actually be removing the track stopper, moving 3 or 4 sail slides below the stopper (loose) and reinserting the stopper? That would be a major PITA, but I think the existing situation is causing the reef tack to be a bit too high, which likewise causes the reef clew point on the leech to be a bit high. - Is it essential to release the vang before reefing? What's the reason that's often recommended? Is it to make the foot of the sail slack and billowy rather than flat, in order to make the clew reef point easier to pull in? Some info on the current setup: - single line reefing with the line run back to the cockpit. Not run through the luff (tack) cringle (I may change this though), so I have to go forward to tie down the reef's tack. - It's what's shown in Single line and cowhorn on this page: http://www.offshore-sailor.com/index.php/seamanship-and-boat-handling/5-reefing-systems.html - I could switch to full on jiffy reefing (run the line through the tack cringle) but am worried there's already too much friction in the system. - mainsail track is built-in to the mast, standard “T shaped” track with plastic sail slides and 2 cars on the top two full battens. - I lubed the sail slides with Mclube Sailkote a few months ago. That helped, but there’s no way the sail will drop with 25 kts of wind pressure on it when sailing off the wind (below a beam reach). I’m not sure even the best mainsail tracks truly allow you to drop sail on a broad reach in 25 kts anyway. We managed to do the reef by going to a close reach or close haul with the genoa at ~100% and luffing the main. But this makes a tremendous racket as the wind slammed the boom around in the minute or two it took to
Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 115, Issue 53
Boat's sail in the apparent wind. I don't know how an instrument could figure out the true wind and direction without knowing the boat speed. -- Forwarded message -- From: dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:48:02 -0300 Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade so my old Raymarine st 60 wind instrument gives me apparent wind speed and angle and true wind speed and angle at the push of a button...I figured those measurements were close enough to accuarte to be good enough for my sailing needs...I don't think boat speed or heading or anything else is required...are the newer units different Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: As far as I know if you have AWS and AWA you only need boat speed through the water to get TWS and TWA which is shown by True on the i60 wind. If you want to display the magnetic angle from where the wind is coming from, such as on an old ST50 multidisplay, then you need boat heading which comes from the fluxgate compass ( usually connected to the Autohelm ). Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:24:55 -0300 From: Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade Message-ID: CAAbfP6QiGDUfVKUJ7_q4WOE=OUVDP=jcu7q3ppcs9b_zj-y...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sorry Fred, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the true wind display on a Raymatine i60 Wind. Raymarine Tech online says it needs a source of heading (and speed through the water which it gets from the i50 Speed already installed) to be able to display true wind? What are possible sources for heading? Can my old Simrad/Robertson Autopilot provide that info to the i60 with some sort of NMEA 0183 to SeaTalkng converter? Ken H. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade- SPX-5 with Seatalk and SeatalkNG
Mike, I think I read the same Ray documentation which seemed to show that one could connect Seatalk and SeatalkNG devices via the SPX-5 controller. I installed my i40 speed system with Seatalk connector wired to the Seatalk ports on the SPX-5. It powers the i40 system, and the speed display works fine. I am planning on connecting the SPX-5 to my Raymarine e7d via SeatalkNG, and I was hoping the speed data would be sent to the e7d too. But it sounds like this does not work? Bummer! I guess I will need to use a Seatalk to SeatalknNG converter. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Aug 13, 2015, at 4:05 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:30:38 -0400 From: Michael Brown m...@tkg.ca mailto:m...@tkg.ca To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade Message-ID: 668580532-6...@mail.tkg.ca mailto:668580532-6...@mail.tkg.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 When I installed a new SPX/5 Autohelm, i70 display, and converter I found the Raymarine documentation a bit disjointed, lacking in a correct example of what I was doing, and in one case was wrong in overview. They showed the Seatalk and SeatalkNG buses being connected to the SPX/5, which you can do, but it does not do any conversion or anything useful. I would normally only make a connection if there was some benefit to it. So ask away if you have any questions. Mike ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Stanchion support problem
Fawcetts may have the tube. If not, most riggers will. South Shore Yachts for the bracket. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:01 PM, TOM VINCENT via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Not paying attention this past Monday I hit the piling at the fuel dock with the stanchion on the starboard side that is used as part of the gate. The stanchion was not damaged, the stainless steel support was bent and I am trying to figure out if I should try bending it back or replace it. The tube is 2' long, 1/2 outside diamater, and 3/8 inside diamater. Also, the cast aluminum bracket that holds the stanchion to the toe rail is cracked. Any suggestions where either piece can be located ? Tom Vincent Chesapeake City, MD Frolic II is a 1979 CC 36'. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Yanmar Heat Exchanger
Well, I bought a CC 37+ a few weeks ago and have been having nothing but trouble. It started with a fuel injector seal failure that allowed combustion gases to escape into the cabin. Below the injectors are pre-combustion chamber that where frozen in place requiring the cylinder head to be removed. While the head was out, I decided to do a valve job. And since the heat exchanger had to be removed, I decided to have it cleaned out at a radiator shop. There is an aluminum sleeve around the cooling tubes in the heat exchanger that had perforated. My understanding is that raw water circulates through the tubes and fresh water surrounds them. It seems there is fresh water on both the inside and outside of the aluminum tube, so I'm not sure if the perforations are a problem. The radiator shop guy wasn't sure either. It wouldn't matter, except the heat exchanger is no longer available from Yanmar and the cooling tube assembly is $1K, and can only be replace if (big if) I can get the frozen one out. What happens if I ignore the problem? The radiator guy pressure tested the assembly and it held pressure. Any ideas? I'm really desperate! Gary '90 CC 37+ High Maintenance East Greenwich, RI, USA ~~~_/)~~ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
Patrick, On Pegathy, also an LF38, I have never reefed the main. I have two reef points, but I take it down, or just don't put it up. The boat sails very well under jib alone, and I reef the roller furling jib in very high winds - sailed from Martha's Vineyard to Natucket very comfortably in 40 knots with jib alone reefed to 110%. That includes a very close reach into the inlet. I have hove to in Pegathy with a full genoa, but not in high winds. My understanding is that when hove to, the boat should be going forward. This makes sense, since if you're moving aft with the rudder to windward, the boat will fall off, as you described. You must be going forward for the rudder to have the desired effect. If you had the main too tight, you may indeed have been moving aft. When hove to, the main needs to produce enough drive to overcome the windage of the jib and still move the boat forward. That also means there must be enough angle of attack for the keel to produce lift. At least, that's how I understand it. I suggest the Lin's book; Storm Tactics is the name, I think. Pretty thorough discussion of heaving to and other ways to stay below safely in storms. BTW, I made my own slide gate out of 1/8 in. aluminum bar to make it easier to get the main into the stack pack. Dan Sheer, Pegathy, LF38. Rock Creek off the Patapsco. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
Kenyon and Selden sell premade sail track gates. In theory all you need to do is drill and tap a couple of holes in the mast. But the curvature of the CC mast may not be exactly the same as the curvature of the premade gate – on my 25 I had to modify the curvature slightly to make the system I bought from Kenyon work. In the alternative, have your sailmaker add a dogbone through the reef tack cringles. It is a thick strap through the cringle of the appropriate length to reach the reef horn, with a substantial stainless ring on each end that is hooked on the reef horn. You can also make one yourself out of line and a couple of large stainless rings. You can’t reef while hove to. Heaving too depends on forward thrust from the main to make the rudder turn the boat to windward and offset the leeward thrust of the back-winded headsail. Remove that thrust and the boat just spins to leeward. You need to ease the vang to let the boom rise so you can get the clew tight when you reef. Then reset the vang after you have the clew and the halyard tight to get the sail flattened. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 6:11 PM To: 1 CnC List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jim Watts paradigmat...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track? A gate is easy to build and fit to the mast to allow the slides to go all the way down to the gooseneck. You might have to modify it a bit to fit your track. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/sailgate/sailgate.htm Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 13 August 2015 at 14:32, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: See response inline. On Aug 13, 2015 4:53 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have some questions on reefing. I know the basics, but want to get more advanced so that it's easy even in challenging conditions. Especially learning any handling characteristics that are specific to CC's. Difficulty reefing was the one of the few sail handling issues we had on our cruise of Vancouver Island last month. Typical Puget Sound summer winds are under 20 kts, so our practice reefing has always been relatively easy. But in 25 kts (gusting to 30?) with 6-10 foot sharp waves from current and wind driven water stacking up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca approaching Race Rocks it was a whole different experience and somewhat scary. (and yes I know, reef early, reef often, but I don't need that lecture ;) Besides, it doesn't change the fact you have to know how to reef in 25 to 40 knots, because if you're ever in those winds you'll need to put the 2nd or 3rd reef in). Anyone here have a procedure for easy reefing (or easier than what I'm doing at least), that doesn’t involve ponying up $3000 to $5000 to install a new mainsail track? (guessing it might cost that much or more if the main sail needed to be replaced or restitched with new slides) Or is that basically an impossible wish? (ie, reefing in difficult conditions will always be difficult) A few questions: - Do you use boat speed over water as a criteria for when to reef? If so what's the speed for an LF38 at which you consider it overcanvased? This is really a function of wind speed not boat speed. More importantly TWS not AWS. With my 37+ i can carry full sails to ~15kts but it is getting uncomfortable and increasingly difficult to reef. (keeping in mind that we're cruisers, not racers, so our priority is keeping boat speed up without being uncomfortable or expending too much energy) - The mainsail 1st reef tack cringle doesn't reach down to the reefing horn on the boom, because the sail slides are stacked up on the track stopper (which cannot go any lower, and prevents the slides from falling out of the track). So I've taken to tying a line through it and tensioning that around a deck cleat. Should I actually be removing the track stopper, moving 3 or 4 sail slides below the stopper (loose) and reinserting the stopper? That would be a major PITA, but I think the existing situation is causing the reef tack to be a bit too high, which likewise causes the reef clew point on the leech to be a bit high. Do you have dog bones? They help me but I'm not doing a single line setup. I have to ease the halyard and then go forward and hook a ring on the dog bone. - Is it essential to release the vang before reefing? What's the reason that's often recommended? Is it to make the foot of the sail slack and billowy rather than flat, in order to make the clew reef point easier to pull in? You have to release the all functions which are pulling down on the boom so that you can tighten the halyard without overly tightening the leach of the
Re: Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
Yeah, so i guess the boat may be moving forward sorta. Assuming you get the boat stopped, then it will crab sideways. Since the crash back was started on the other tack the crabbing action often times brings the boat closer to the victim. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 9:25 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: The boat is moving forward while hove-to I'll have to think on that one for a while. There is a man-overboard maneuver that I call a crash back. You basically turn up into the wind but don't release the headsail sheets. Once the bow is through the wind turn the wheel back all the way and lock it. You are in effect now hove-to. Now you can throw a float and focus on the MOB. The nice thing about this maneuver is that the boat will stop and then drift backwards towards(ish) the victim. I don't do it often so I'll have to double check. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 9:12 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Patrick, On Pegathy, also an LF38, I have never reefed the main. I have two reef points, but I take it down, or just don't put it up. The boat sails very well under jib alone, and I reef the roller furling jib in very high winds - sailed from Martha's Vineyard to Natucket very comfortably in 40 knots with jib alone reefed to 110%. That includes a very close reach into the inlet. I have hove to in Pegathy with a full genoa, but not in high winds. My understanding is that when hove to, the boat should be going forward. This makes sense, since if you're moving aft with the rudder to windward, the boat will fall off, as you described. You must be going forward for the rudder to have the desired effect. If you had the main too tight, you may indeed have been moving aft. When hove to, the main needs to produce enough drive to overcome the windage of the jib and still move the boat forward. That also means there must be enough angle of attack for the keel to produce lift. At least, that's how I understand it. I suggest the Lin's book; Storm Tactics is the name, I think. Pretty thorough discussion of heaving to and other ways to stay below safely in storms. BTW, I made my own slide gate out of 1/8 in. aluminum bar to make it easier to get the main into the stack pack. Dan Sheer, Pegathy, LF38. Rock Creek off the Patapsco. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
I reef hove to by preference. The boat sits pretty quietly with the main slacked off and the jib backed, no problem at all and a much easier platform to work from. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 13 August 2015 at 20:07, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: ARSS. I like that. I’ve always considered it to be just good seamanship, but I’ve been accused of being excessive in my expectations of others from time to time. Rick Brass Washington, NC (ARSS = Anal Retentive Sailors Syndrome. I have a team working on developing a purple pill to help this common but under treated condition.) Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [image: Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
A couple of random thoughts Yes, the boat is creeping forward while hove to. No need to belittle 6-8' seas with short interval - nasty enough. Short interval is far worse than much larger seas with room to spread out Sea directly behind you - much more than the 6' you saw and you'd have learned a painful (and wet) lesson to takes waves on the quarters. MOB - it you're the victim don't get your hopes up. Concentrate on keeping everyone aboard Again, just random thoughts John Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: The boat is moving forward while hove-to I'll have to think on that one for a while. There is a man-overboard maneuver that I call a crash back. You basically turn up into the wind but don't release the headsail sheets. Once the bow is through the wind turn the wheel back all the way and lock it. You are in effect now hove-to. Now you can throw a float and focus on the MOB. The nice thing about this maneuver is that the boat will stop and then drift backwards towards(ish) the victim. I don't do it often so I'll have to double check. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 9:12 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Patrick, On Pegathy, also an LF38, I have never reefed the main. I have two reef points, but I take it down, or just don't put it up. The boat sails very well under jib alone, and I reef the roller furling jib in very high winds - sailed from Martha's Vineyard to Natucket very comfortably in 40 knots with jib alone reefed to 110%. That includes a very close reach into the inlet. I have hove to in Pegathy with a full genoa, but not in high winds. My understanding is that when hove to, the boat should be going forward. This makes sense, since if you're moving aft with the rudder to windward, the boat will fall off, as you described. You must be going forward for the rudder to have the desired effect. If you had the main too tight, you may indeed have been moving aft. When hove to, the main needs to produce enough drive to overcome the windage of the jib and still move the boat forward. That also means there must be enough angle of attack for the keel to produce lift. At least, that's how I understand it. I suggest the Lin's book; Storm Tactics is the name, I think. Pretty thorough discussion of heaving to and other ways to stay below safely in storms. BTW, I made my own slide gate out of 1/8 in. aluminum bar to make it easier to get the main into the stack pack. Dan Sheer, Pegathy, LF38. Rock Creek off the Patapsco. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Easy reefing without a mainsail slide track?
ARSS. I like that. I’ve always considered it to be just good seamanship, but I’ve been accused of being excessive in my expectations of others from time to time. Rick Brass Washington, NC (ARSS = Anal Retentive Sailors Syndrome. I have a team working on developing a purple pill to help this common but under treated condition.) Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
The boat is moving forward while hove-to I'll have to think on that one for a while. There is a man-overboard maneuver that I call a crash back. You basically turn up into the wind but don't release the headsail sheets. Once the bow is through the wind turn the wheel back all the way and lock it. You are in effect now hove-to. Now you can throw a float and focus on the MOB. The nice thing about this maneuver is that the boat will stop and then drift backwards towards(ish) the victim. I don't do it often so I'll have to double check. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 9:12 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Patrick, On Pegathy, also an LF38, I have never reefed the main. I have two reef points, but I take it down, or just don't put it up. The boat sails very well under jib alone, and I reef the roller furling jib in very high winds - sailed from Martha's Vineyard to Natucket very comfortably in 40 knots with jib alone reefed to 110%. That includes a very close reach into the inlet. I have hove to in Pegathy with a full genoa, but not in high winds. My understanding is that when hove to, the boat should be going forward. This makes sense, since if you're moving aft with the rudder to windward, the boat will fall off, as you described. You must be going forward for the rudder to have the desired effect. If you had the main too tight, you may indeed have been moving aft. When hove to, the main needs to produce enough drive to overcome the windage of the jib and still move the boat forward. That also means there must be enough angle of attack for the keel to produce lift. At least, that's how I understand it. I suggest the Lin's book; Storm Tactics is the name, I think. Pretty thorough discussion of heaving to and other ways to stay below safely in storms. BTW, I made my own slide gate out of 1/8 in. aluminum bar to make it easier to get the main into the stack pack. Dan Sheer, Pegathy, LF38. Rock Creek off the Patapsco. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Heaving-to - sail ratios for higher winds
Really, when you're hove to, you're pointing about 60 degrees off the wind and your COG is about 90 degrees to the breeze. How hard you have the main sheeted controls your angle to the breeze. I will roll most of the jib in big breeze...leaving as little as 10 or 20% out. Coming home to New England in the spring, it is often difficult to get more than a three-day window for a four-day trip, so I will leave Bermuda about a day before a front is due and sail north until the breeze shifts and the waves get too big, at which point I will heave to and wait for the wind to shift; usually about twelve hours. http://www.cruisingworld.com/how/smart-times-heaving Andy CC 40 Peregrine Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Newport, RI USA02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ +401 965-5260 On Aug 13, 2015, at 22:11, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Yeah, so i guess the boat may be moving forward sorta. Assuming you get the boat stopped, then it will crab sideways. Since the crash back was started on the other tack the crabbing action often times brings the boat closer to the victim. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 9:25 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: The boat is moving forward while hove-to I'll have to think on that one for a while. There is a man-overboard maneuver that I call a crash back. You basically turn up into the wind but don't release the headsail sheets. Once the bow is through the wind turn the wheel back all the way and lock it. You are in effect now hove-to. Now you can throw a float and focus on the MOB. The nice thing about this maneuver is that the boat will stop and then drift backwards towards(ish) the victim. I don't do it often so I'll have to double check. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 9:12 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Patrick, On Pegathy, also an LF38, I have never reefed the main. I have two reef points, but I take it down, or just don't put it up. The boat sails very well under jib alone, and I reef the roller furling jib in very high winds - sailed from Martha's Vineyard to Natucket very comfortably in 40 knots with jib alone reefed to 110%. That includes a very close reach into the inlet. I have hove to in Pegathy with a full genoa, but not in high winds. My understanding is that when hove to, the boat should be going forward. This makes sense, since if you're moving aft with the rudder to windward, the boat will fall off, as you described. You must be going forward for the rudder to have the desired effect. If you had the main too tight, you may indeed have been moving aft. When hove to, the main needs to produce enough drive to overcome the windage of the jib and still move the boat forward. That also means there must be enough angle of attack for the keel to produce lift. At least, that's how I understand it. I suggest the Lin's book; Storm Tactics is the name, I think. Pretty thorough discussion of heaving to and other ways to stay below safely in storms. BTW, I made my own slide gate out of 1/8 in. aluminum bar to make it easier to get the main into the stack pack. Dan Sheer, Pegathy, LF38. Rock Creek off the Patapsco. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade
Dwight — do you also have an ST60 Speed in the system? If so (and I expect you probably do…), that’s how your wind instrument can calculate TWA and TWS. Otherwise you’re stuck with just AWA and AWS. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI On Aug 13, 2015, at 10:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: so my old Raymarine st 60 wind instrument gives me apparent wind speed and angle and true wind speed and angle at the push of a button...I figured those measurements were close enough to accuarte to be good enough for my sailing needs...I don't think boat speed or heading or anything else is required...are the newer units different Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
You didn't mention a solenoid for the glo-plugs. Did i miss that? Without a solenoid for the glo-plugs (and fuel pump) then just as the second article stated (which is supported by your description of the connector) the panel is providing all 24amps of current which is the choke point for the pullin voltage of the starter solenoid. When on the shore power charger you can see voltages of as much as 14.7v which must be high enough to meet the pullin voltage. The solar charger is intentionally not going to go higher than 13.6v to prevent boiling the batteries off. You might see voltages less than that. Just to reiterate and clarify. You need 2 solenoids, one for the glo-plugs and one for the starter. Also replace the plug when you have a chance. There is a good likelihood that the previous owner experienced the same problem and because of the draw down of the voltage decided to rewire the starting button so that he could glow, release, and then start. Josh On Aug 13, 2015 11:21 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We did some more testing yesterday. Batteries fully charged by solar panel would not start the engine with both buttons held down after 20 seconds of glow plugs. Started fine with start button alone. Batteries read about 12.7v and rapidly went down to 12.5 after 15 seconds of glow plugs. The voltage continued to drop over time as you hold down the glow plug, so I did not push this for any longer. Fuel pump essentially stopped when this happened. Plugged into shore power, at first got the same result. After charging for a few minutes, we were able to start with both buttons on the first try, but not the second try. After waiting a few minutes, it again started on the first try and not the second. In general, there was a correlation that the longer the charge, the longer the glow plug button could be held in and still get the engine turning with the start button. When removed from shore power, the battery would rapidly return to not being able to start with both buttons. It seems clear that there is not enough power in the batteries to power the glow plugs and close the solenoid (or turn the starter) at the same time. At one point we measured 4V at the solenoid with the glow plug button in and the start button in when it did not turn over. Does shore power actually charge the battery to a higher state than the solar panel? One thing I noticed while working in there is the wiring harness connector. I had read the article that Josh pointed to on Maine Cruising and while my connector does not look exactly like the one in the picture, it also does not look good. I tried to get it apart and failed which is not a good sign, but did not want to force it. I am thinking that a winter project is going to be to either butt splice all 8 wires or put in a terminal block as the writer describes (not sure where I would put this). I also checked the connection to the solenoid and fuse and those looked fine (cleaned them anyway). For now, the answer I am left with is: things work as wired, but not as well as would be expected. There is a problem, but it is not a big one. Go sailing. Have fun. Fix the wiring harness and see if that changes anything. Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Universal 40
Here is a link to the documents library for Westerbeke/Universal: http://www.westerbeke.com/pages/documentlibrary.htm You will find the wiring diagrams, parts book, operators manual, and service information as PDF downloads on this page. Also look at the model history to see the chronology of model variations on the various engines so you can get the proper wiring diagram - there may be more than one revision for a particular model. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Russo via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:53 AM To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com Cc: John Russo johnrussob...@optonline.net Subject: Stus-List Universal 40 A friend just purchased a 1984 Bristol 38 with a Universal 40 engine and wondered if anyone could provide a wiring diagram for the engine and electrical control panel etc that he can use as a starter diagram to help trace out his wiring. I have been following the recent discussions re glow plugs etc. and he does have as two button panel for the glow plugs and starter and found a disconnected solenoid. Thanks, John 1984 Arpeggio Norwalk, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade
so my old Raymarine st 60 wind instrument gives me apparent wind speed and angle and true wind speed and angle at the push of a button...I figured those measurements were close enough to accuarte to be good enough for my sailing needs...I don't think boat speed or heading or anything else is required...are the newer units different Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: As far as I know if you have AWS and AWA you only need boat speed through the water to get TWS and TWA which is shown by True on the i60 wind. If you want to display the magnetic angle from where the wind is coming from, such as on an old ST50 multidisplay, then you need boat heading which comes from the fluxgate compass ( usually connected to the Autohelm ). Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:24:55 -0300 From: Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade Message-ID: CAAbfP6QiGDUfVKUJ7_q4WOE=OUVDP=jcu7q3ppcs9b_zj-y...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sorry Fred, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the true wind display on a Raymatine i60 Wind. Raymarine Tech online says it needs a source of heading (and speed through the water which it gets from the i50 Speed already installed) to be able to display true wind? What are possible sources for heading? Can my old Simrad/Robertson Autopilot provide that info to the i60 with some sort of NMEA 0183 to SeaTalkng converter? Ken H. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
