Re: Stus-List Lazy Jacks

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

On larger boats it is not as much of a problem because you have to head
into the wind anyway.
On my C&C 25 I can raise the main anywhere from beam reach on. So lazy
jacks create a inconvinience.
Now on a 25 you really don't need one, but I will install something to save
me the 3 minutes of packing the sail while floating. I almost exclusively
single-hand.
I will probably come up with some kind of lazy jacks that can be stoved
away at the mast.
Ahmet

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ken,
>
> I would second that (“we really like it when short handed...”).
>
> In order to deal with these problems, I installed the lazy jacks on the
> spreaders (as opposed to the mast). This makes the slot wider and the sail
> does not get easily caught in them. I had that problem on the previous
> boat, but the jacks were installed on the mast.
>
> I don’t use the halyard to support the boom, so that problem goes away. My
> main halyard rests on the railing (when not in use), so bringing it back to
> the head of the sail is trivial.
>
> Marek
>
>
> *From:* Ken Heaton via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:56
> *To:* cnc-list 
> *Cc:* Ken Heaton 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Lazy Jacks
>
> Our experience with a stack pack is that it is painless except for these
> two thing Mike mentioned:
>
> "They often caught the batten pocket ends when hoisting the sail, were
> annoying when taking the main halyard forward to headboard of sail from its
> normal spot on end of boom (had to ensure not outside of any lazy jacks)"
>
> For the first, we learned to keep the boat head into the wind when
> hoisting the main and we didn't have trouble.
>
> For the second, we got used to this and didn't think much about after a
> bit of use.
>
> Perhaps a difference with our lazy jack / stack pack setup is that the
> lazyjacks can be pulled the mast easily and so tucked out of the way.
> Also, if we chose to do so, usually when we know the main is going to be up
> for a while, our pack rolls up on either side of the boom and is held in
> place there with quick release buckles so it virtually disappears.  We
> don't bother rolling it up if we're just out for a short sail.
>
> We really like it when short handed.  Often it us just the two of us (or
> at least just the two of us who have experience sailing) on board.  When it
> is windy and we are heading into an anchorage we can get the lazy jacks set
> up ahead of time (just pull one rope on either side of the mast and cleat
> off) and continue under the main until we want to drop it.  We then just
> turn the boat head into the wind and open the rope clutch for the main
> halyard and let it drop.  It takes care of itself.  We deal with tidying up
> up later, one anchored, which is just a few pulls on the leach edge as
> necessary to straighten and flatten the sail into pack and do up one zipper.
>
> Ken H.
>
> C&C 37 XL Salazar
>
>
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>
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>
>
>


-- 
---
Ahmet
*"S/V Waterdancer"* 1990 Irwin 43 CC
"Tabasco" 1973 C&C 25
Winthrop Yacht Club, Winthrop, MA / USA
---
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Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

The topping lift on my C&C 33 MKII is 80 ft of 3/8db according to the chart, 
can't believe there'd be much difference if they're rigged similarity.
Brad
1985 C&C 33 MKII "PULSE"

Sent, miraculously through cyberspace, 
from my iPad!
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Re: Stus-List Boat tools

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Dave,

I'm with you on this. I have an ancient breast drill, seldom used but 
it's gotta be on the boat. Perhaps it's the only drill you can use underwater.


When it comes out for show & tell, I call it "my cordless drill".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/breast+drill

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast, very windy & kinda damp

At 06:49 PM 08/12/2015, you wrote:
I keep a manual hand drill on the boat-  yard sale item, I  use it 
fairly often.  Batteries never die.

Dave


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 20:24:11 -0600
From: "Dennis C." <capt...@gmail.com>
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat tools
Message-ID:

<CANir+yu2eX19XK3NrC-g=sudpzv0n+tnkvrzfgz+9tt6zue...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Rick,

Go with the Makita!  I love mine.  Several listers also have the Makita.

Dennis C.


On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


And my other Christmas present to myself will be a good quality (likely
Makita or Bosch) 18 volt drill driver with 2 lithium batteries. Every
cansarned time I get out the drill on the boat, the NICad batteries are
dead. That one is going into the garage where a battery can be kept on the
charger.


Sent from my iPad
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Do you mean the top'n' lift? :)


At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote:

Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?


--
From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Pamela & David" 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

Hello

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C&C-34?

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are 
looking for a quick job to replace


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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Ron Casciato via CnC-List]

Why not simply cut the tracer string in place and tie another string to it and 
pull the original one out and measure it……?  That leaves you with a 
messenger string still in place and  the correct measurement

 

Ron C.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:25 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: Chuck S 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

 

Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?

 

  _  

From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: "Pamela & David" mailto:thesaltfam...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

 

Hello

 

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C&C-34?

 

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking for a 
quick job to replace 


___

 

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift? 

- Original Message -

From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Pamela & David"  
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole 

Hello 

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C&C-34? 

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking for a 
quick job to replace 

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Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Pamela & David via CnC-List]

Hello

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C&C-34?

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking
for a quick job to replace
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Re: Stus-List depth transducer replacement

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I frequently drill from both sides when using a hole saw when I want a clean 
hole on each side.  When you drill from one side you risk splintering on the 
exit side. Sodo it!

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 10, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> A question about removing a depth transducer to install the new one.  Based 
> on earlier input from the list, I have used a 2 inch hole saw from the top. 
> Fortunately the diameter of the old transducer is just shy of 2 in and the 
> new one requires a 2 in hole. So the body of the old transducer just fits 
> inside the hole saw, keeping it lined up with little drag (not cutting much 
> of the plastic body of the transducer).  When the inside top of the hole saw 
> reached the top of the transducer, I then cut off the top half of the 
> transducer so I could proceed drilling down.  Now the hole saw just touches 
> the hull, but the inside top of the hole saw hits the top of the transducer, 
> so I will need to saw off the next section of the transducer to proceed 
> further.  With my tools, not so easy to saw off the transducer just above the 
> hull. Question: what about drilling down thru the transducer with a regular 
> drill bit, using the pilot hole made by the drill bit in the hole saw, and 
> then, using that h
 ole as a guide, use the hole saw to proceed up from the outside of the hull.  
This would avoid cutting thru more of the transducer (a pain), and the pilot 
hole should guide the hole saw. Sound OK, or better to continue from the top?
> Thanks as always for your input.
> Eric Frank
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
> 
> 
> ___
> 
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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

For those who can sew, Sailrite has a video on its website on how to make
your own.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Got a stack pack for an existing loose footed main from Chuck O'Malley at
> Chesapeake Sailmakers in Annapolis. Works wonderfully. Drop and zip. Cake
> to put on and take off. Can be rolled up at the boom for racing with little
> effort. Reasonable price. Chuck is great to work with. Highly recommended.
> Only additional requirement is plates on the mast to cover the gate and
> retain the slides. Made them out of 3/16 (or 1/4, don't remember) aluminum
> in an hour. Chuck would'a made them, but I chose to do it meself. Arrgh!
>
> Dan Sheer
> Pegathy - LF 38
> Rock Creek off the Patapsco
>
> __
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:37:58 +
> From: "Hoyt, Mike" 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?
> Message-ID:
> <169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f104...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Josh
>
> The zippers and canvas that is built into the sail
>
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:16 AM
> To: C&C List
> Cc: Josh Muckley
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail
> pack or any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked
> at the Doyle website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which
> seems to be "needed" is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be
> mandatory.
>
> What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It
> indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.
>
> Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for
> reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost
> new Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries,
> everyday sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas
> etc ?  Had noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for
> deliveries and casual sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited
> racing as well.  Have been considering a stack pack main at some time for
> cruising.
>
> Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts
> on feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any
> ideas on cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack
> components can be used on another sail?
>
> I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were
> always in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main
> was a major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Mike
> Persistence
> 1987 Frers 33
> Halifax, NS
>
> Formerly
> Nut Case 1987 J27
> Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
> Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
> Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
> Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
> High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)
>
>
> ___
>
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List depth transducer replacement

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

I did mine with a 2" holesaw, completely from the outside and was done 
in minutes.


Bill Bina

On 12/10/2015 3:27 PM, William Walker via CnC-List wrote:


Eric,
Do it.  Missed seeing you this summer.
Bill Walker
Evening Star

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Thursday, December 10, 2015 Eric Frank via CnC-List 
 wrote:


A question about removing a depth transducer to install the new one. 
Based on earlier input from the list, I have used a 2 inch hole saw 
from the top. Fortunately the diameter of the old transducer is just 
shy of 2 in and the new one requires a 2 in hole. So the body of the 
old transducer just fits inside the hole saw, keeping it lined up with 
little drag (not cutting much of the plastic body of the transducer). 
When the inside top of the hole saw reached the top of the transducer, 
I then cut off the top half of the transducer so I could proceed 
drilling down. Now the hole saw just touches the hull, but the inside 
top of the hole saw hits the top of the transducer, so I will need to 
saw off the next section of the transducer to proceed further. With my 
tools, not so easy to saw off the transducer just above the hull. 
Question: what about drilling down thru the transducer with a regular 
drill bit, using the pilot hole made by the drill bit in the hole saw, 
and then, using that hole as a guide, use the hole saw to proceed up 
from the outside of the hull. This would avoid cutting thru more of 
the transducer (a pain), and the pilot hole should guide the hole saw. 
Sound OK, or better to continue from the top? Thanks as always for 
your input. Eric Frank Cat's Paw C&C 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA 
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Re: Stus-List depth transducer replacement

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Agreed!

Joel

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:27 PM, William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Eric,
> Do it.  Missed seeing you this summer.
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> --
> On Thursday, December 10, 2015 Eric Frank via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> A question about removing a depth transducer to install the new one. Based
> on earlier input from the list, I have used a 2 inch hole saw from the top.
> Fortunately the diameter of the old transducer is just shy of 2 in and the
> new one requires a 2 in hole. So the body of the old transducer just fits
> inside the hole saw, keeping it lined up with little drag (not cutting much
> of the plastic body of the transducer). When the inside top of the hole saw
> reached the top of the transducer, I then cut off the top half of the
> transducer so I could proceed drilling down. Now the hole saw just touches
> the hull, but the inside top of the hole saw hits the top of the
> transducer, so I will need to saw off the next section of the transducer to
> proceed further. With my tools, not so easy to saw off the transducer just
> above the hull. Question: what about drilling down thru the transducer with
> a regular drill bit, using the pilot hole made by the drill bit in the hole
> saw, and then, using that hole as a guide, use the hole saw to proceed up
> from the outside of the hull. This would avoid cutting thru more of the
> transducer (a pain), and the pilot hole should guide the hole saw. Sound
> OK, or better to continue from the top? Thanks as always for your input.
> Eric Frank Cat's Paw C&C 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA
> ___ Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List depth transducer replacement

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Eric,
 Do it.  Missed seeing you this summer.
Bill Walker
Evening Star


Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, December 10, 2015 Eric Frank via CnC-List  
wrote:
A question about removing a depth transducer to install the new one. Based on 
earlier input from the list, I have used a 2 inch hole saw from the top. 
Fortunately the diameter of the old transducer is just shy of 2 in and the new 
one requires a 2 in hole. So the body of the old transducer just fits inside 
the hole saw, keeping it lined up with little drag (not cutting much of the 
plastic body of the transducer). When the inside top of the hole saw reached 
the top of the transducer, I then cut off the top half of the transducer so I 
could proceed drilling down. Now the hole saw just touches the hull, but the 
inside top of the hole saw hits the top of the transducer, so I will need to 
saw off the next section of the transducer to proceed further. With my tools, 
not so easy to saw off the transducer just above the hull. Question: what about 
drilling down thru the transducer with a regular drill bit, using the pilot 
hole made by the drill bit in the hole saw, and then, using that hole as a 
guide, use the hole saw to proceed up from the outside of the hull. This would 
avoid cutting thru more of the transducer (a pain), and the pilot hole should 
guide the hole saw. Sound OK, or better to continue from the top? Thanks as 
always for your input. Eric Frank Cat's Paw C&C 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA 
___ Email address: 
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-- go to the bottom of page at: 
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Stus-List depth transducer replacement

[Eric Frank via CnC-List]

A question about removing a depth transducer to install the new one.  Based on 
earlier input from the list, I have used a 2 inch hole saw from the top. 
Fortunately the diameter of the old transducer is just shy of 2 in and the new 
one requires a 2 in hole. So the body of the old transducer just fits inside 
the hole saw, keeping it lined up with little drag (not cutting much of the 
plastic body of the transducer).  When the inside top of the hole saw reached 
the top of the transducer, I then cut off the top half of the transducer so I 
could proceed drilling down.  Now the hole saw just touches the hull, but the 
inside top of the hole saw hits the top of the transducer, so I will need to 
saw off the next section of the transducer to proceed further.  With my tools, 
not so easy to saw off the transducer just above the hull. Question: what about 
drilling down thru the transducer with a regular drill bit, using the pilot 
hole made by the drill bit in the hole saw, and then, using that hol
 e as a guide, use the hole saw to proceed up from the outside of the hull.  
This would avoid cutting thru more of the transducer (a pain), and the pilot 
hole should guide the hole saw. Sound OK, or better to continue from the top?
Thanks as always for your input.
Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Daniel Sheer via CnC-List]

Got a stack pack for an existing loose footed main from Chuck O'Malley at 
Chesapeake Sailmakers in Annapolis. Works wonderfully. Drop and zip. Cake to 
put on and take off. Can be rolled up at the boom for racing with little 
effort. Reasonable price. Chuck is great to work with. Highly recommended. Only 
additional requirement is plates on the mast to cover the gate and retain the 
slides. Made them out of 3/16 (or 1/4, don't remember) aluminum in an hour. 
Chuck would'a made them, but I chose to do it meself. Arrgh!

Dan SheerPegathy - LF 38Rock Creek off the 
Patapsco__
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:37:58 +
From: "Hoyt, Mike" 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?
Message-ID:
    <169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f104...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Josh

The zippers and canvas that is built into the sail

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:16 AM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?


Mike,

I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail pack or 
any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked at the Doyle 
website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which seems to be "needed" 
is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be mandatory.

What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.

Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost new 
Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, everyday 
sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc ?  Had 
noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deliveries and casual 
sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited racing as well.  Have 
been considering a stack pack main at some time for cruising.

Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts on 
feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any ideas on 
cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack components can be 
used on another sail?

I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were always 
in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main was a 
major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.

Thoughts?

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

Formerly
Nut Case 1987 J27
Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)


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Re: Stus-List Here's why it is better to sail the gulf-side of FL

[svpegasus38]

Having sailed the trades to Hawaii and the west coast of Baja California. I 
saw alot more garbage and no ships in the trades. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.





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Re: Stus-List Lazy Jacks

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Ken,

I would second that (“we really like it when short handed...”).

In order to deal with these problems, I installed the lazy jacks on the 
spreaders (as opposed to the mast). This makes the slot wider and the sail does 
not get easily caught in them. I had that problem on the previous boat, but the 
jacks were installed on the mast.

I don’t use the halyard to support the boom, so that problem goes away. My main 
halyard rests on the railing (when not in use), so bringing it back to the head 
of the sail is trivial.

Marek


From: Ken Heaton via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:56
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ken Heaton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lazy Jacks

Our experience with a stack pack is that it is painless except for these two 
thing Mike mentioned: 

"They often caught the batten pocket ends when hoisting the sail, were annoying 
when taking the main halyard forward to headboard of sail from its normal spot 
on end of boom (had to ensure not outside of any lazy jacks)"

For the first, we learned to keep the boat head into the wind when hoisting the 
main and we didn't have trouble.

For the second, we got used to this and didn't think much about after a bit of 
use.

Perhaps a difference with our lazy jack / stack pack setup is that the 
lazyjacks can be pulled the mast easily and so tucked out of the way.  Also, if 
we chose to do so, usually when we know the main is going to be up for a while, 
our pack rolls up on either side of the boom and is held in place there with 
quick release buckles so it virtually disappears.  We don't bother rolling it 
up if we're just out for a short sail.

We really like it when short handed.  Often it us just the two of us (or at 
least just the two of us who have experience sailing) on board.  When it is 
windy and we are heading into an anchorage we can get the lazy jacks set up 
ahead of time (just pull one rope on either side of the mast and cleat off) and 
continue under the main until we want to drop it.  We then just turn the boat 
head into the wind and open the rope clutch for the main halyard and let it 
drop.  It takes care of itself.  We deal with tidying up up later, one 
anchored, which is just a few pulls on the leach edge as necessary to 
straighten and flatten the sail into pack and do up one zipper.

Ken H.

C&C 37 XL Salazar
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Re: Stus-List Lazy Jacks

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Our experience with a stack pack is that it is painless except for these
two thing Mike mentioned:

"They often caught the batten pocket ends when hoisting the sail, were
annoying when taking the main halyard forward to headboard of sail from its
normal spot on end of boom (had to ensure not outside of any lazy jacks)"

For the first, we learned to keep the boat head into the wind when hoisting
the main and we didn't have trouble.

For the second, we got used to this and didn't think much about after a bit
of use.

Perhaps a difference with our lazy jack / stack pack setup is that the
lazyjacks can be pulled the mast easily and so tucked out of the way.
Also, if we chose to do so, usually when we know the main is going to be up
for a while, our pack rolls up on either side of the boom and is held in
place there with quick release buckles so it virtually disappears.  We
don't bother rolling it up if we're just out for a short sail.

We really like it when short handed.  Often it us just the two of us (or at
least just the two of us who have experience sailing) on board.  When it is
windy and we are heading into an anchorage we can get the lazy jacks set up
ahead of time (just pull one rope on either side of the mast and cleat off)
and continue under the main until we want to drop it.  We then just turn
the boat head into the wind and open the rope clutch for the main halyard
and let it drop.  It takes care of itself.  We deal with tidying up up
later, one anchored, which is just a few pulls on the leach edge as
necessary to straighten and flatten the sail into pack and do up one zipper.

Link to a photo of the stored pack (sorry about the length of the links):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4udTrWOMWGmSl0HJboTkGixSyLNSHsKZx2dYVg8U4inFVjVHZ7UW83HTel49essWOM9KtbEYA9ATFxv414M1OivqjVHmIHni7o5N0cBdUWdMdHP5gJ04U6ZL6XhCYqtWs0yuYnKQXCJcmueAm4dm6Hs9I8n1DgV7pFFjNxmz9I9FbuSKPoQXLilgwNwZUEkmWWqcP-RgUU5UUIJwD8-aOEIdWDIoCMej2J5Obr7wLtMdX8Nq23T8EwHFMfDhBez92CCZ1iH71P63WPQQdtj9ydntOgmyxxq0U4t9PusW-uXUmgHQr8OBP7vNNvk7HfND46opY37e_-yQlgxEcwBVUoC52_WRdt-4mOWPC9qdO2o0YB-g1-r5iTAJlQ8e9GGHuHYkYwWCmtVPrVXesi-9jQK4ozoj2vYjJBGXJDHGcLpWHq2wbBDE8-0rc5TOp6RT3rLqPFXx_-0kSkhqMtYyJmKt9_OuO2eHZpMd8QjdfUB_h3Yf2o2CvAQheKd3NBHodUBPY6QLa8d3YjFWSW2jwz3-ycphdTtMzkdcgilqatvVfAAKuWoJs6uHwASO-gVJjVxi=w1920-h552-no

And a view of it in use:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_vLlPpI09mJzcc9qcqdsp9ZU6WkrwLU3y1H_rU8r8bI0TD-XOLZOkEK5Us4MfjK1pWqI9L5aGfJFLfzGQ6sG0wB0ivjweQNMqiiXd-29ja3A-7NS4v9RhUuOm3N9nT_C0rqCQ1A0LlBFhXNoakscf-0sugrTfJc-ar7H2VoX0FP-kiGgM7xIn0YBJc-2-Z2xUSOyVhwZYvWC-UU2hqMJQK9lWkC2ApOTzsOys1IVgCA8rDstnbzyk2PLSU3a0A41mGz2NeWKVSzMThsssRHLhYj4rfmJvFPJZ_7jds6igurHZrtgzmg6m7EeXr4CE7HVKv6MvFDXUb6z_We3Ts6yZjMoUXGVOCBkA8fxO2Hg1gZQLPKdulwPy2ENqOOqmDZyYGyVnFOUaWnnrnS8pFy2dsATZQZr9YZOdXW2uamxt08AzhJ9J-aSzl_0Qz1buSv-gDQcy-OYqX4rdUZABqFTdsTTJET82OrqEV1S2TzZwTDAU_94BPKZ0AKWUzEqW24CuFm3s16I7dfnz-mWAn0lrd-oJhV__zFdAsClfv2U5p7Un_AmsSyZiHRtm_VTLR7zaLl=w1274-h955-no

Ken H.

C&C 37 XL Salazar

On 10 December 2015 at 12:47, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Sea Hawk came with lazy jacks and were subject to most of the problems you
> noted.  Sail flopping on the deck, sail cover a pain, generally not
> working, etc.
>
> When designing the new sail pack from Quantum, Clark Mckinney advised that
> the original jacks did not extend up high enough (short of even the first
> of three spreaders) and that they were not placed wide enough (on the mast
> instead of about a foot out on each spreader).  The problems you mentioned
> have not presented themselves with the new jacks/sail pack.  I also
> inquired about the added windage from the sail pack and how that would
> affect performance.  He stated that no one had ever complained about
> decreased performance though also noted that most sail packs are going on
> cruising boats and cruisers are less likely to recognize or care about
> decreased performance.  I can say that having been brought up in sailing as
> a racer and owning a boat that is PHRF 75, and having raced that boat, I
> would not complain.  Any cons are far far outweighed by the pros.
>
> I also inquired about the ease of flaking the sail with the sail pack and
> Clark advised that since the sail was hidden inside the pack there was no
> need to "make it look neat".  He argued that the regular folding of the
> sail in the same place over and over (as in a neatly flaked sail) was more
> likely to cause wear spots at the folds.  His advice was to basically allow
> it to tumble into the pack and then pull the leach edge as necessary to
> straighten and flatten the sail into pack.  The sail stows quickly and
> rarely folds in the same place twice.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Dec 10, 2015 9:38 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Marek
>>
>>
>>
>> Nut Case our J27 also came with Lazy Jacks.  The very first thing I did
>> was cut them off the mast before ever launching t

Re: Stus-List Lazy Jacks

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Mike,

Sea Hawk came with lazy jacks and were subject to most of the problems you
noted.  Sail flopping on the deck, sail cover a pain, generally not
working, etc.

When designing the new sail pack from Quantum, Clark Mckinney advised that
the original jacks did not extend up high enough (short of even the first
of three spreaders) and that they were not placed wide enough (on the mast
instead of about a foot out on each spreader).  The problems you mentioned
have not presented themselves with the new jacks/sail pack.  I also
inquired about the added windage from the sail pack and how that would
affect performance.  He stated that no one had ever complained about
decreased performance though also noted that most sail packs are going on
cruising boats and cruisers are less likely to recognize or care about
decreased performance.  I can say that having been brought up in sailing as
a racer and owning a boat that is PHRF 75, and having raced that boat, I
would not complain.  Any cons are far far outweighed by the pros.

I also inquired about the ease of flaking the sail with the sail pack and
Clark advised that since the sail was hidden inside the pack there was no
need to "make it look neat".  He argued that the regular folding of the
sail in the same place over and over (as in a neatly flaked sail) was more
likely to cause wear spots at the folds.  His advice was to basically allow
it to tumble into the pack and then pull the leach edge as necessary to
straighten and flatten the sail into pack.  The sail stows quickly and
rarely folds in the same place twice.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Dec 10, 2015 9:38 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Marek
>
>
>
> Nut Case our J27 also came with Lazy Jacks.  The very first thing I did
> was cut them off the mast before ever launching the boat for the first
> time.  I do not like the look of them nor how they mess up the sail cover.
>
>
>
> Persistence our Frers 33 was in the water when we purchased it.  We used
> the Lazy Jacks the entire summer.  They often caught the batten pocket ends
> when hoisting the sail, were annoying when taking the main halyard forward
> to headboard of sail from its normal spot on end of boom (had to ensure not
> outside of any lazy jacks) and were simply in the way when the sail was
> hoisted.  Worst of all they seemed to offer zero benefit when dropping the
> main.  It spilled off the boom anyway.  So this past Spring I removed them
> prior to stepping the mast.  This time however I did not cut them off as
> they were attached with shackles so I can reuse if desired.
>
>
>
> Persistence is our Winnebago.  It is however a Winnebago that is very easy
> to sail to its potential (moreso than the J27, etc …).  We tend to race the
> boat in the Spring and the Fall and race on the C&C 115 Koobalibra during
> the regular season.  We also like to take advantage of the creature
> comforts of our sailing Winnebago when not racing.
>
>
>
> Persistence Quantum main is I believe Carbon/Vectran with taffeta on both
> sides.  It has a very nice sail shape but is super stiff and awful to
> flake.  It really did not work well with the lazy jacks.  Our older UK Tape
> Drive Kevlar main is likely 10-12 years old.  It has decent shape but is
> starting to show the brittleness of an older Kevlar sail.  However it
> flakes quite easily.  I suspect it would work better with lazy jacks than
> the Quantum main.  Moreso if we actually had them tensioned properly and
> learned how to use them.
>
>
>
> During the past summer we had the boat in the Bras D’ors Lakes in Cape
> Breton, NS.  We spent one week racing the boat in Baddeck Reggata Week (6
> day event) against many boats that included C&C 33-2 and another Frers 33.
> For this we had the new (2013) quantum main.  For the 180 mile deliveries
> and while cruising in the Lakes we used the UK Tape Drive main and our 100%
> roller furler Quantum Pentex genoa (also taffeta both sides) and had our
> dodger and bimini in place.  With the dodger up flaking the main was even
> more of a chore than normal since it is the way big time.  For this reason
> when delivering or goofing around we usually did not bother with the main
> (seems silly).  In the Bras Dors Lakes it is quite deep but the channels
> into some anchorages can be shallow and narrow.  Not a good time to have
> one of two total crew fooling around trying to lash a mainsail.
>
>
>
> Following Regatta week we did a Wednesday race of the frers 33 Equinox
> which still had its Stack Pack main on from its delivery back from Cape
> Breton.  I was impressed with how little the ugly zippers and canvas on the
> sail actually affected its performance and with how easy it was to deploy
> and stow.  For these reasons I have tried to think how I could use the lazy
> jacks for cruising and quickly and easily move them to the mast when
> racing.  The issue then being to keep them out of the way of the other
> control lines …
>
>
>
> Hope t

Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Mike,

What function do the zippers and added canvas provide?  As stated before I
had my canvas guy at Quantum sail loft make mine.  I've only had good
experiences.

Josh
On Dec 10, 2015 9:38 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Josh
>
>
>
> The zippers and canvas that is built into the sail
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:16 AM
> *To:* C&C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?
>
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail
> pack or any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked
> at the Doyle website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which
> seems to be "needed" is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be
> mandatory.
>
> What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It
> indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.
>
>
>
> Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for
> reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost
> new Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries,
> everyday sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas
> etc …  Had noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for
> deliveries and casual sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited
> racing as well.  Have been considering a stack pack main at some time for
> cruising.
>
>
>
> Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts
> on feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any
> ideas on cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack
> components can be used on another sail?
>
>
>
> I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were
> always in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main
> was a major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> 1987 Frers 33
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> Formerly
>
> Nut Case 1987 J27
>
> Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
>
> Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
>
> Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
>
> Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
>
> High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

The Doyle Stack Packs I’ve seen have all had the bottom edge of the sail sewn 
into the bottom seam of the Stack Pack. And a set of sail slugs along the 
bottom of the assembly are in the grove on the top of your boom. I can’t swear 
from experience that this is true for all Doyle Stack Packs, just for the 4 or 
5 with which I have experience. I suppose you could have a shelf foot main 
inside a Stack Pack, but a loose foot sail might be problematic. I adjust the 
outhaul on my loose foot main a lot in response to wind conditions. With the 
clew of the sail sewn into the back of the Stack Pack, you would be tensioning 
or easing the sail cover as well – and I suspect that Sunbrella isn’t as 
responsive to adjustment as the Dacron of the sail.

 

My other quibble is about the height of a Stack Pack. We almost never zip up 
the covers on the 72 foot gaff schooner and the 2 Hunter 37 cutters owned by 
the charter company I sail for – only when we know the boats won’t be used for 
a fair amount of time. It is just too big a PITA to get up high enough to do 
it. Ditto for the Doyle Stack Pack on the Endeavor 35 owned by some friends; 
they have to carry a short ladder to reach up to the head of the sail when it 
is in the Stack Pack.

 

There are other brands of combination lazy-Jack-sail-covers, and different 
arrangements for mounting them.  Or you could make your own.

 

A friend just made his own by converting the sail covers on the 40 foot 
schooner he bought last spring. Zipped out the top seam of the old covers. 
Added a full length zipper, a pocket along the top of each half to hold a 
length of batten stock, and grommets in the cover in which he terminates his 
lazy jack lines. He is very happy with the arrangement and the negligible cost 
of the modifications. He has been trying to convince me to do the same on my 
boat.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

 

Josh

 

The zippers and canvas that is built into the sail

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:16 AM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

 

Mike,

I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail pack or 
any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked at the Doyle 
website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which seems to be "needed" 
is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be mandatory.  

What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD 

On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.

 

Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost new 
Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, everyday 
sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc …  Had 
noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deliveries and casual 
sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited racing as well.  Have 
been considering a stack pack main at some time for cruising.

 

Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts on 
feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any ideas on 
cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack components can be 
used on another sail?

 

I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were always 
in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main was a 
major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.  

 

Thoughts?

 

Mike

Persistence

1987 Frers 33

Halifax, NS

 

Formerly

Nut Case 1987 J27

Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26

Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23

Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette

Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)

High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)

 


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Re: Stus-List Here's why it is better to sail the gulf-side of FL

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Having worked for a forklift company that made a lot of container handling 
equipment, I can tell you what I recall.

 

5 lost containers per ship is probably not a bad guess at the average. Although 
it is not 5 containers off every ship, it is more the case of 100 containers 
off every 20th ship or 200 off every 40th. Anyhow that represents a really 
small percentage of containers shipped – maybe around 1 container lost is every 
1 or 2 thousand shipped

 

Container do sink – eventually. It depends on what is in them. Containers of 
hardware or machinery goes down in a few hours as the air leaks out (there are 
actually vent holes in newer containers for this purpose). A container of 
tennis balls or Christmas toys like dolls may float almost forever.

 

Better than 95% of container traffic is international – mostly full containers 
from SE Asia (China, for example) to North America or Europe and empties going 
back to be refilled. So most of the traffic is near shore when it approaches a 
deep water port with a container terminal. Places like Boston, Jersey City, 
Baltimore, Savannah, Miami, Long Beach, and Vancouver, and to a certain extent 
Chicago and Toronto.. Shipping between locations inland is far cheaper by rail 
or truck, so the container ports have intermodal hubs to handle transshipping 
the containers to their final destination – like a warehouse or your local 
Walmart store. Miami is a special case because a fair amount of container 
traffic gets transferred to smaller vessels and to barges for delivery to the 
various islands in the Caribbean.

 

Shipping costs are driving a trend to bigger and bigger ships and fewer and 
deeper ports. I recall reading about a plan to launch a series of container 
ships over 100,000 tons – bigger than an aircraft carrier. And there were plans 
to build a MEGA container port on the west coast of Mexico than would reduce 
shipping costs through high cost ports like Long Beach, Vancouver, and New 
Orleans. Homeland Security and others were weighing in on the Mexican plans 
because of concerns about a significant increase in cross border traffic, truck 
traffic on existing roads in the Southwest, etc.

 

Anyway, the risk of hitting a container if you are a coastal cruiser are pretty 
minimal. Unless you are in an area like SE Florida, the Chesapeake, or sail 
well out  into the ocean off the entrance to a deep water port like Long Beach 
or New York. Most of the lost container go into the water during severe storm 
well out at sea.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 8:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Here's why it is better to sail the gulf-side of FL

 

My information is certainly dated, but a while back my wife was consulting for 
a shipping (container) line and at that time they claimed that they regularly 
lost about 5 containers on an average Atlantic crossing. Interestingly, they 
were not overtly alarmed about it. I think, fortunately, most of these 
containers eventually sink.

 

Possibly there are some newer regulations that changed it somewhat, but I doubt.

 

Marek

1994 C270 “Legato”

Ottawa, ON

 

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List   

Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 10:06 PM

To: C  &C List 

Cc: Josh Muckley   

Subject: Re: Stus-List Here's why it is better to sail the gulf-side of FL

 

I read an article years ago about semi-submerged containers.  Then can lurk 
just at the surface level and even in full daylight be almost invisible.  A 
collision with one can sink even a large private vessel in only a few minute 
with no warning.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

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Stus-List Lazy Jacks

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Marek

Nut Case our J27 also came with Lazy Jacks.  The very first thing I did was cut 
them off the mast before ever launching the boat for the first time.  I do not 
like the look of them nor how they mess up the sail cover.

Persistence our Frers 33 was in the water when we purchased it.  We used the 
Lazy Jacks the entire summer.  They often caught the batten pocket ends when 
hoisting the sail, were annoying when taking the main halyard forward to 
headboard of sail from its normal spot on end of boom (had to ensure not 
outside of any lazy jacks) and were simply in the way when the sail was 
hoisted.  Worst of all they seemed to offer zero benefit when dropping the 
main.  It spilled off the boom anyway.  So this past Spring I removed them 
prior to stepping the mast.  This time however I did not cut them off as they 
were attached with shackles so I can reuse if desired.

Persistence is our Winnebago.  It is however a Winnebago that is very easy to 
sail to its potential (moreso than the J27, etc …).  We tend to race the boat 
in the Spring and the Fall and race on the C&C 115 Koobalibra during the 
regular season.  We also like to take advantage of the creature comforts of our 
sailing Winnebago when not racing.

Persistence Quantum main is I believe Carbon/Vectran with taffeta on both 
sides.  It has a very nice sail shape but is super stiff and awful to flake.  
It really did not work well with the lazy jacks.  Our older UK Tape Drive 
Kevlar main is likely 10-12 years old.  It has decent shape but is starting to 
show the brittleness of an older Kevlar sail.  However it flakes quite easily.  
I suspect it would work better with lazy jacks than the Quantum main.  Moreso 
if we actually had them tensioned properly and learned how to use them.

During the past summer we had the boat in the Bras D’ors Lakes in Cape Breton, 
NS.  We spent one week racing the boat in Baddeck Reggata Week (6 day event) 
against many boats that included C&C 33-2 and another Frers 33.  For this we 
had the new (2013) quantum main.  For the 180 mile deliveries and while 
cruising in the Lakes we used the UK Tape Drive main and our 100% roller furler 
Quantum Pentex genoa (also taffeta both sides) and had our dodger and bimini in 
place.  With the dodger up flaking the main was even more of a chore than 
normal since it is the way big time.  For this reason when delivering or 
goofing around we usually did not bother with the main (seems silly).  In the 
Bras Dors Lakes it is quite deep but the channels into some anchorages can be 
shallow and narrow.  Not a good time to have one of two total crew fooling 
around trying to lash a mainsail.

Following Regatta week we did a Wednesday race of the frers 33 Equinox which 
still had its Stack Pack main on from its delivery back from Cape Breton.  I 
was impressed with how little the ugly zippers and canvas on the sail actually 
affected its performance and with how easy it was to deploy and stow.  For 
these reasons I have tried to think how I could use the lazy jacks for cruising 
and quickly and easily move them to the mast when racing.  The issue then being 
to keep them out of the way of the other control lines …

Hope this explains it.

Mike
Persistence
Ferrs 33 built by Winnebago

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:06 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

Mike,

interesting that you removed the lazy jacks. I installed them on my boat. I had 
them on my previous C&C 24 and I loved them. The new(er) boat came without them 
and I installed them after one season. I always sail short- or singlehanded  
and the lazy jacks help a lot when dropping the main. In the worst case, I can 
tighten the lines controlling the jacks and drop the sail without flaking, 
tying it up etc. I can get to the dock that way and tidy it it up afterwards.

I wonder what was the pain factor. There might be a little chafe on the sail, 
but I used mine for 7 years (and the PO at least 3-4 years before that) and 
there were no signs of problems.

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 8:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.

Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost new 
Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, everyday 
sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc …  Had 
noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deli

Re: Stus-List Pleated Blinds

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

The general category for our style of shades is "roman shades"

Bill Bina

On 12/10/2015 9:27 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:


I’ve seen the pleated blinds and the aluminum rails they are mounted 
on in an RV parts catalog. I wonder if they come in a standard size 
that might fit, and if you can’t buy them through an RV dealer/service 
provider in your area.


Rick Brass

Washington, NC

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List

*Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:34 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Jean-Francois J Rivard 
*Subject:* Stus-List Pleated Blinds

Same question here for our 34+

Ours have issues where the plastic inside is cracking and the plastic 
where snaps mount is getting pretty brittle as well..


I'd love to replace them all.


-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA






From: Gary Russell mailto:captnga...@gmail.com>>
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Pleated Blinds
Message-ID:

>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The pleated window blinds / shades in my 37 Plus have seen better days.
Has anyone found appropriate replacements?  Where?

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
1990 C&C 47 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA



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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Josh

The zippers and canvas that is built into the sail

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:16 AM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?


Mike,

I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail pack or 
any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked at the Doyle 
website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which seems to be "needed" 
is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be mandatory.

What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.

Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost new 
Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, everyday 
sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc …  Had 
noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deliveries and casual 
sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited racing as well.  Have 
been considering a stack pack main at some time for cruising.

Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts on 
feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any ideas on 
cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack components can be 
used on another sail?

I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were always 
in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main was a 
major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.

Thoughts?

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

Formerly
Nut Case 1987 J27
Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)


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Re: Stus-List Pleated Blinds

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

I've seen the pleated blinds and the aluminum rails they are mounted on in
an RV parts catalog. I wonder if they come in a standard size that might
fit, and if you can't buy them through an RV dealer/service provider in your
area.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:34 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jean-Francois J Rivard 
Subject: Stus-List Pleated Blinds

 

Same question here for our 34+ 

Ours have issues where the plastic inside is cracking and the plastic where
snaps mount is getting pretty brittle as well.. 

I'd love to replace them all.  


-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA






From: Gary Russell mailto:captnga...@gmail.com> >
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Pleated Blinds
Message-ID:
 
mailto:cabgkxp+rh9748t0tjjycmvlrxkzwirc-wc8x_mpyx3wxcyu...@mail.gmail.com>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The pleated window blinds / shades in my 37 Plus have seen better days.
Has anyone found appropriate replacements?  Where?

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
1990 C&C 47 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I know that the Mack Pack can be done for either loose footed or attached foot 
mains without modification to the sail.  Mine (loose footed) has slugs that go 
into the boom track.  I think the other version straps under the boom.  Dave

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

> On Dec 10, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail pack 
> or any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked at the 
> Doyle website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which seems to be 
> "needed" is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be mandatory. 
> 
> What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
> indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.
> 
>  
> 
> Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
> reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost 
> new Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, 
> everyday sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc 
> …  Had noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deliveries 
> and casual sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited racing as 
> well.  Have been considering a stack pack main at some time for cruising.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts on 
> feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any ideas on 
> cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack components can be 
> used on another sail?
> 
>  
> 
> I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were 
> always in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main 
> was a major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>  
> 
> Mike
> 
> Persistence
> 
> 1987 Frers 33
> 
> Halifax, NS
> 
>  
> 
> Formerly
> 
> Nut Case 1987 J27
> 
> Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
> 
> Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
> 
> Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
> 
> Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
> 
> High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
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> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 

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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Mike,

I can't see anything that sets the stack pack apart from any other sail
pack or any reason that the main would need modified.  I looked and looked
at the Doyle website marketing (videos and text).  The only thing which
seems to be "needed" is a loose footed mainsail.  Even that might not be
mandatory.

What are you seeing that makes you think otherwise?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Dec 10, 2015 8:55 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It
> indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.
>
>
>
> Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for
> reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost
> new Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries,
> everyday sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas
> etc …  Had noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for
> deliveries and casual sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited
> racing as well.  Have been considering a stack pack main at some time for
> cruising.
>
>
>
> Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts
> on feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any
> ideas on cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack
> components can be used on another sail?
>
>
>
> I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were
> always in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main
> was a major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> 1987 Frers 33
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> Formerly
>
> Nut Case 1987 J27
>
> Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
>
> Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
>
> Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
>
> Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
>
> High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Mike,

interesting that you removed the lazy jacks. I installed them on my boat. I had 
them on my previous C&C 24 and I loved them. The new(er) boat came without them 
and I installed them after one season. I always sail short- or singlehanded  
and the lazy jacks help a lot when dropping the main. In the worst case, I can 
tighten the lines controlling the jacks and drop the sail without flaking, 
tying it up etc. I can get to the dock that way and tidy it it up afterwards.

I wonder what was the pain factor. There might be a little chafe on the sail, 
but I used mine for 7 years (and the PO at least 3-4 years before that) and 
there were no signs of problems.

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON 

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 8:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.

 

Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost new 
Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, everyday 
sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc …  Had 
noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deliveries and casual 
sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited racing as well.  Have 
been considering a stack pack main at some time for cruising.

 

Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts on 
feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any ideas on 
cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack components can be 
used on another sail?

 

I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were always 
in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main was a 
major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.  

 

Thoughts?

 

Mike

Persistence

1987 Frers 33

Halifax, NS

 

Formerly

Nut Case 1987 J27

Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26

Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23

Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette

Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)

High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)

 
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Re: Stus-List Here's why it is better to sail the gulf-side of FL

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

My information is certainly dated, but a while back my wife was consulting for 
a shipping (container) line and at that time they claimed that they regularly 
lost about 5 containers on an average Atlantic crossing. Interestingly, they 
were not overtly alarmed about it. I think, fortunately, most of these 
containers eventually sink.

Possibly there are some newer regulations that changed it somewhat, but I doubt.

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 10:06 PM
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Here's why it is better to sail the gulf-side of FL

I read an article years ago about semi-submerged containers.  Then can lurk 
just at the surface level and even in full daylight be almost invisible.  A 
collision with one can sink even a large private vessel in only a few minute 
with no warning.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
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Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site.  It 
indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail.

Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for 
reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost new 
Quantum main.  This past season we used the older main for deliveries, everyday 
sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas etc ...  Had 
noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for deliveries and casual 
sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited racing as well.  Have 
been considering a stack pack main at some time for cruising.

Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack?  Any thoughts on 
feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack?  Any ideas on 
cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack components can be 
used on another sail?

I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were always 
in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main was a 
major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor.

Thoughts?

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

Formerly
Nut Case 1987 J27
Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26
Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23
Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette
Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat)
High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat)

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