Stus-List List discussions on list

[Stu via CnC-List]

By now, a lot of people have gone back to the archives and read the posts by 
Mr. Drew.  It is his side of the story as he believes it happened.


The Brokerage is not a member of the list but have been made aware of the 
posts (not by me).  They have taken their own actions against Mr. Drew and 
are probably not at liberty to discuss the matter on this list or any social 
networking site.


Some of our members have offered suggestions on purchasing a boat and many 
of them are good.  But to suggest how to resolve the problems in litigation 
is not our place.  That's what lawyers are for.


Knocking or slamming a particular firm is fine until there is court actions 
involved.  Then it should not be posted here unless you are willing to post 
both sides of the story.  I doubt that will happen.


At the same time, promoting a company because of the service they provided 
is 100% acceptable.  It would be nice if you sent them a note too.


So, at this time the judge (me) has ordered a 'publication ban' on this 
matter.


We will just have to sit back and see what happens.

Stu



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Re: Stus-List discussions on list

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

My mother told me many times, "If you don't have something nice to say about
someone, you're better off saying nothing at all".  
That isn't prohibiting free speech, it's just a good idea.

Have a great weekend all!
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Persuasion37 via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 5:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Persuasion37 
Subject: Re: Stus-List discussions on list

HERE, HERE!!!  (much table-pounding).  Mr. piper's email did more damage
than anything I've read thus far.  What ever happened to freedom of speech.
As Dave stated it is only one mans opinion.

Stu I think Mr. Piper should have aces to this discussion.

Stu we all appreciate your hard work and would not want to do anything to
jeopardize this forum.

My 2 cents (Canadian)
Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Nov 25, 2016, at 4:45 PM, Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:
> 
> For the record:
> 
> Without making direct reference any recent discussion on list that may
have resulted in threats of  litigation, I would like to offer that I
believe that any discussion here is understood to be among adults who are
fully aware that disputes may arise and opinions may differ.   I do not
believe that one party communicating a negative commercial experience with
another in a forum such as this can be reasonably considered damaging or
would materially cause others to form a firm impression of either party.
We're all grownups and we know opinions differ, and that there are many
sides to every story.  I view such discussions as instructive and useful to
all, who may wish to learn from the experience of others.  
> The members here are not anonymous and communicate responsibly. 
> I have not seen any example where inappropriate or damaging information
has been distributed via this list, and in my opinion the list is moderated
in a highly responsible manner. 
> 
> Thanks for the good work Stu.
> 
> Dave Syer
> ON Canada.
>
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List discussions on list

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

HERE, HERE!!!  (much table-pounding).  Mr. piper's email did more damage than 
anything I've read thus far.  What ever happened to freedom of speech.  As Dave 
stated it is only one mans opinion.

Stu I think Mr. Piper should have aces to this discussion.

Stu we all appreciate your hard work and would not want to do anything to 
jeopardize this forum.

My 2 cents (Canadian)
Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Nov 25, 2016, at 4:45 PM, Dave S via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> For the record:
> 
> Without making direct reference any recent discussion on list that may have 
> resulted in threats of  litigation, I would like to offer that I believe that 
> any discussion here is understood to be among adults who are fully aware that 
> disputes may arise and opinions may differ.   I do not believe that one party 
> communicating a negative commercial experience with another in a forum such 
> as this can be reasonably considered damaging or would materially cause 
> others to form a firm impression of either party.  We're all grownups and we 
> know opinions differ, and that there are many sides to every story.  I view 
> such discussions as instructive and useful to all, who may wish to learn from 
> the experience of others.  
> The members here are not anonymous and communicate responsibly. 
> I have not seen any example where inappropriate or damaging information has 
> been distributed via this list, and in my opinion the list is moderated in a 
> highly responsible manner. 
> 
> Thanks for the good work Stu.
> 
> Dave Syer
> ON Canada.
>
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Stus-List discussions on list

[Dave S via CnC-List]

For the record:

Without making direct reference any recent discussion on list that may
have resulted in threats of  litigation, I would like to offer that I
believe that any discussion here is understood to be among adults who are
fully aware that disputes may arise and opinions may differ.   I do not
believe that one party communicating a negative commercial experience with
another in a forum such as this can be reasonably considered damaging or
would materially cause others to form a firm impression of either party.
We're all grownups and we know opinions differ, and that there are many
sides to every story.  I view such discussions as instructive and useful to
all, who may wish to learn from the experience of others.
The members here are not anonymous and communicate responsibly.
I have not seen any example where inappropriate or damaging information has
been distributed via this list, and in my opinion the list is moderated
in a highly responsible manner.

Thanks for the good work Stu.

Dave Syer
ON Canada.
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Brokers and surveyors

[rshibe via CnC-List]

   Chuck would you forward contact information for Mike Collier of Marine 
Safety to me at; rsh...@optonline.net. 
Thanks, 
Ray Shibe

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 23, 2016, at 12:59, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Buying a boat from a broker without a buyer’s agent is the same as buying a 
> house with no realtor representing you.   And doing so from long distance, 
> stacks the deck even further against you.  The seller’s agent is looking out 
> for the seller and themselves.  Period.  Since that agent gets commission 
> based upon the selling price of the boat, why would they negotiate for a 
> cheaper price on your behalf?  And generally, if you have your own broker, 
> the commission paid to the buyers broker is often a portion of the fees 
> collected by the agent listing the boat. 
>  
> To the topic of knowledgeable brokers and surveyors, I think that most 
> brokers tend to follow the money trail and focus their energy and expertise 
> on what will yield the greatest return for them and their company.  Many 
> yacht brokers are passing up listings of 30-40 year old sailboats because 
> demand is low, the potential buyers are cheapskates (yes, that includes us!) 
> and the time and money it takes to list an old “fixer upper” may result in 
> the broker being upside down in recovering their costs.  If they take on an 
> older boat, they’d prefer to list the 40 year old Hinckley or Morris Yacht 
> that still sells for over $100K, which means their commission actually 
> amounts to some return for the effort.  This is why you see more and more 
> cheap boats being represented by “discount” online brokers like POP Yachts, 
> where the virtual brokerage is located in Florida and their “regional” sales 
> agent collects  photos from the owner and shows the boat to clients.  This 
> person may have 50-100 boats listed and may never have first-hand knowledge 
> of any of them.  From experience, the regional guy is not usually a sailor 
> and he may have inherited the listing from a prior broker who may no longer 
> be with the company. 
>  
> When I purchased Half Magic last winter, I was fortunate that my surveyor, 
> Mike Collier from Marine Safety in Fairhaven, MA, is also a C Landfall 38 
> owner and was very excited to run a fine tooth comb over my purchase.  I 
> scheduled the survey to be performed when I could be there too.  Even so, we 
> surveyed in January with the boat out of the water and we missed a few 
> things.  First off, the boat had no operational batteries, so we had to hook 
> up the electrics to a temporary battery to see if everything worked.  Items 
> like the refrigeration compressor “turned on” but I was later to find out 
> that the refrigerant charge wasn’t sufficient to cool down the icebox during 
> the summer.  How do you determine that in January when EVERYTHING was cold 
> and freezing?
>  It was difficult, but we managed to run the engine on auxiliary fuel and 
> water.   Despite draining the fuel cell after purchase,  I discovered 
> substantial residue in the fuel tank from the boat sitting for such a long 
> time on the hard, resulting in a few clogged filters at some very inopportune 
> times during the course of the summer.  There are certainly times I wish for 
> the simplicity of my previous 25Mk 1 with very little interior plumbing, a 
> simple outboard motor, and no electronics to go haywire.
>  
> I’ve also heard of some folks getting two surveys on a boat purchase, one 
> very thorough survey to be as informed as possible and the other as a more 
> “general” survey that can be submitted to an insurance company to allow an 
> older boat to be insured if there may some problems that the owner wants to 
> fix on his own but perhaps not right away.
> Be wary of boats that have been listed for many months and are now listed at 
> significantly reduced price.  Those are the boats that were initially priced 
> well if they were in good shape, but problems came up and the broker or owner 
> didn’t want to go the expense of fixing the problem.  To think that you can 
> fix those problems cheaper than the original owner or a yard that is able to 
> buy parts and labor at wholesale, may be a bit of a pipedream.
>  
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1983 35 Landfall
> 
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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