Re: Stus-List Keel bolt torque

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I had pretty decent luck torqueing the keel bolts today.  A few of the
studs were damaged/corroded on the threads extending past the nut but not
on the threads protected by the nut when fully tightened.  I lubed the
rough threads with extra thick tef-gel and things seemed to go together
smooth enough.  The 3:1 multiplier was effective but I think a 4:1 or 5:1
would have made the job a little easier.  I was definitely glad I brought a
3 foot pipe to help stabilize the reaction bar.  It was extremely helpful
to have a second person present to monitor and stabilize the whole
apparatus.  I stand by my statement from last night that keeping the
operating wrench as close to the multiplier as possible minimizes the
creation of odd twisting motions.  My concerns of using an output drive
extension were unfounded and I would encourage anyone who is hesitating, to
use one.

We were out of the water and set on a block around 9:30am and done with the
torque by 12:30.  This included removing each nut, cleaning the nut and
stud, and then reinstalling each one at a time.  Overall a very smooth
process but the preparation was a very important part.

I used the torque values from the link below as a guide.  316 SS
lubricated.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque%20of%20Stainless%20Steel,%20Non%20ferrous%20Torque.pdf

Keel bolts (fwd to aft):
 Nut   stud   torque3:1
multiplier
1 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm)  255 =  85 x 3
2 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  615 =  205 x 3
3 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  615 =  205 x 3
4 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  615 =  205 x 3
5 - 1 7/8 (47.5mm)1 1/4 (32mm)   465 =  155 x 3
6 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  615 =  205 x 3
7 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm)  255 =  85 x 3
8 - 3/4 (19.5mm)1/2 (13mm)  38

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Jan 2, 2018 3:18 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Ok Guys,
Since I have the mast out, this provides the rare opportunity to access ALL
of the keel bolts.  I've measured each of the bolt and nut diameters and
checked the archives for torque specs.  I intend to buy a toque multiplier
and the appropriate sized sockets.  I think I can do it for less than the
yard is going to charge and I'll come out of it with some tools.  I'll also
be able to tell myself that it was done correctly.

That being said it sounds like the best practices are are follows:
-  be on the hard
- loosen the bolts one at a time, clean, and lubricate with tef-gel
- reinstall and torque at progressively higher levels.

I was unable to find the torque spec for my 1.5" bolt in the website but
Ken Heaton cited 600lbs in one of his past responses.

Keel bolts (fwd to aft):
 Nut   stud   torque
1 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm)  350
2 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
3 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
4 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
5 - 1 7/8 (47.5mm)1 1/4 (32mm)   450
6 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
7 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm)  350
8 - 3/4 (19.5mm)1/2 (13mm)  80


*Anything I'm missing?*


Thanks,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

Old ships used Live Oak, which is a very different wood than White Oak.

Bill Bina



On 1/19/2018 1:23 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List wrote:
Good white oak is considered to be relatively resistant to water 
penetration, used for canoes and old sailing ships.


https://www.wagnermeters.com/aboutamericanwhiteoakandredoak/

Working it, bending it and staining it ( or getting epoxy into it ) 
has usually been the top complaints.


Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1


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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Good white oak is considered to be relatively resistant to water penetration, 
used for canoes and old sailing ships.

https://www.wagnermeters.com/aboutamericanwhiteoakandredoak/

Working it, bending it and staining it ( or getting epoxy into it ) has usually 
been the top complaints.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1



From: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
 
 On my 30, I used oak the first time. ?I sealed the ends and faces with epoxy, 
but apparently didn't do a good enough job as it sucked up water. ?Now oak 
bends very nicely when wet, especially if hot. ?Needless to say, within a few 
years I had to replace because the mast was getting too low for the shrouds.I 
used an oily mexican wood called paela (sp?). ?They use it for fence posts and 
it's good for a hundred years. ?Very dense, like ironwood.I had only two 
supports and both rested on the shoulder of the bilge so water could flow 
under. ?I added a third support and did the same.All seems to be 
working.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL 
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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 144, Issue 65

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

I like the stacked hole saw technique.   On several occasions, I have found 
myself without the correct size hole saw.  I discovered that it is rather easy 
to enlarge a hole by 1/8-1/4” with a Dremel and sanding drum.  


 
-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Jan 19, 2018, at 11:00 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 08:02:28 -0600
> From: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net>>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Enlarging existing hole in glass
> Message-ID: <188834db-f50e-487f-834b-bf05d30f3...@postaudio.net 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Dennis ? don?t forget the method of stacking hole saws of different sizes on 
> one mandrel.  If you have an existing 1-1/2? hole and need it to be 1-7/8?, 
> you can often slide the smaller hole saw into the larger one and put them on 
> the same mandrel; the smaller saw (original hole size) will often stand proud 
> of the larger hole saw enough to act as a guide to start the new cut.
> 
> ? Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

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Re: Stus-List Enlarging existing hole in glass

[Rick Rohwer via CnC-List]

Great info guys!  Thanks

Rick Rohwer
Pike 37+ 
Tacoma, WA
> On Jan 19, 2018, at 6:21 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, forgot to mention that one.  That was my first plan.  Tried it.  It 
> didn't work for me either.  The new 2.75 inch hole saw I bought was a bit 
> taller than my 2.25 inch hole saw so the smaller saw didn't stick out above 
> the larger saw.  G.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Dennis — don’t forget the method of stacking hole saws of different sizes on 
> one mandrel.  If you have an existing 1-1/2” hole and need it to be 1-7/8”, 
> you can often slide the smaller hole saw into the larger one and put them on 
> the same mandrel; the smaller saw (original hole size) will often stand proud 
> of the larger hole saw enough to act as a guide to start the new cut.
> 
> — Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2018, at 7:52 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> Sometimes we're faced with enlarging an existing hole.  There are a couple 
>> of recognized ways to provide an "anchor" to center the pilot bit on a hole 
>> saw.  The most common way is to secure a piece of scrap wood over the hole 
>> (behind or in front) and then drill the new hole.  A second way is to cut a 
>> plug, place it in the hole and secure it with spray foam, etc.
>> 
>> Well, I had to enlarge a hole on Touche' and I thought neither of the above 
>> methods would work.  I dreamed up another method which I've never seen in my 
>> web research.  Here's a link to my write up.  Perhaps someone will find it 
>> useful someday.
>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1I84iwQstTrzPcvQf2lNEWi8xeGDPcHaH 
>> 
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
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> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 On my 30, I used oak the first time.  I sealed the ends and faces with epoxy, 
but apparently didn't do a good enough job as it sucked up water.  Now oak 
bends very nicely when wet, especially if hot.  Needless to say, within a few 
years I had to replace because the mast was getting too low for the shrouds.I 
used an oily mexican wood called paela (sp?).  They use it for fence posts and 
it's good for a hundred years.  Very dense, like ironwood.I had only two 
supports and both rested on the shoulder of the bilge so water could flow 
under.  I added a third support and did the same.All seems to be 
working.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL

On Thursday, January 18, 2018, 9:50:19 PM CST, Collin Ferguson via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was dropping 
into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few questions...
1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast step 
or stringers?  Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of them called 
the mast step?
2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on this 
task.  They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials.  I would like to use 
epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the wood to fit 
in.  If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy.  The original plywood lasted 
40 so I would think it should.  My question is, what type of wood?  I was 
thinking White oak or Mahogany.
3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel?  Of 
the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to the 
base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the bottom 
of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through.  I'm not sure if that 
was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the hose.  There were 
many failed repairs to the original structure.
4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the pieces 
under the mast.  The current setup only had a hose running in there to a manual 
whale pump.  Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in there?  
Thanks,
Collin1974 C&C 30 MK1LibraBaltimore
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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

Agree with Randy in all comments except one. If your mast deposits as much 
water as mine into the bilge, having a pump down at the bottom is necessary, 
but….there is often other junk that gets down there as well and that means you 
need to get under the step to clean out the pump screen. If you take your mast 
out often, then that is not a problem. I would recommend a self-priming pump 
with a hose down there instead. I am in the same position and will be making 
that install as well as (once again) repairing or replacing the supports.

 

Gary Nylander #593

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 12:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford ; Collin Ferguson 

Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

 

Hi Collin, responses inline.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

On Jan 18, 2018, at 8:49 PM, Collin Ferguson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was dropping 
into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few questions...

 

1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast step 
or stringers?  Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of them called 
the mast step?

 

My understanding of the terminology is that the lateral plywood pieces are 
called the mast step supports.  In my boat (C&C 30 MK I hull #7, built 
September 1972) what sits on top of the supports is an oak block about 2” 
thick, 8” wide, and 16” long.  That is the mast step.  Mounted on top of the 
mast step is an aluminum box that the mast sits in, i.e. the mast box.





2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on this 
task.  They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials.  I would like to use 
epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the wood to fit 
in.  If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy.  The original plywood lasted 
40 so I would think it should.  My question is, what type of wood?  I was 
thinking White oak or Mahogany.

 

I’d think you’d want something super hard.  See 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test.  I considered Ipe and Cumaru 
for new cabintop handrails for Grenadine, but went with traditional teak in the 
end.  Both Ipe and Cumaru are very hard woods, oily which is good for water 
repellency, and less expensive than teak.  But caveat emptor, I’m not expert on 
woods and woodworking.





3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel?  Of 
the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to the 
base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the bottom 
of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through.  I'm not sure if that 
was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the hose.  There were 
many failed repairs to the original structure.

 

I believe the design intent was for the weight and compressive load of the mast 
to be borne by the bilge shoulders, not by the top of the keel stub.  Therefore 
I don’t think it’s super-important for the new supports to rest on the top of 
the keel stub.  Grenadine’s original supports had little contact with the top 
of the keel stub, and her new supports have none.  And it’s important to leave 
space below the supports for water to come forward to that lowest sump under 
the mast step (and for bilge plumbing to pass through).  There’s a term for 
that space, drain holes effectively, but I forget the term.



 

4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the pieces 
under the mast.  The current setup only had a hose running in there to a manual 
whale pump.  Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in there?  

 

Yeah I put an 1100gph Rule in there on my boat.  Described in 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM





Thanks,

 

Collin

1974 C&C 30 MK1

Libra

Baltimore

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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I used epoxy coated white oak. The particular pieces were hard enough that 
metal working blades
and a file provided the best method for shaping them.

My feeling is that the original bilge pump configuration did not get the last 
2" of water out of the
mast step area so the plywood was wet 7x24 for 30+ years. It also likely went 
through numerous
freeze/thaw cycles every winter. I may have had the same setup, a Whale Guzzler 
in the cockpit
sole and a long hose running down under the mast step.

The PO installed a centrifugal style pump just astern of the mast which 
improved things a bit but
it also could not pump the last 1" out and the water in the out line would flow 
back. 

I installed a Whale Gulper 320 with a remote pickup and electronic sensor. The 
pickup foot has a valve
in it and the sensor runs for about 45 seconds longer after the low point for 
shutoff is detected. There is
now very little water in the bilge.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1




Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 03:49:30 + (UTC) 
From: Collin Ferguson  

My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was dropping 
into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few questions... 
1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast step 
or stringers? ?Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of them called 
the mast step? 
2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on this 
task. ?They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials. ?I would like to use 
epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the wood to fit 
in. ?If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy. ?The original plywood lasted 
40 so I would think it should. ?My question is, what type of wood? ?I was 
thinking White oak or Mahogany. 
3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel? ?Of 
the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to the 
base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the bottom 
of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through. ?I'm not sure if that 
was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the hose. ?There were 
many failed repairs to the original structure. 
4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the pieces 
under the mast. ?The current setup only had a hose running in there to a manual 
whale pump. ?Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in there? ? 
Thanks, 
Collin1974 C&C 30 MK1LibraBaltimore 
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Re: Stus-List Centerboard cable replacement process?

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Bruce,

On the 37+ series (as well as the 34+ series) those of us who have (or in my 
case, had) centerboards, the process of replacing the cable is not an easy one. 
Here’s a drawing: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yf47sp8d7i504p/centerboard.pdf?dl=0 
 

1. The boat MUST be hauled. No diver anywhere can do this. 
2. There is no stopper that allows the board to be lowered further. When it’s 
down that’s as far down as it can go (as you can see on the diagram). as I 
understood it, if your cable is still good, someone can reach in there, unhook 
the existing cable and snake a new one down from the top. You will most likely 
need to pull the “stopper” on the deck and the stainless feed down the center 
of your cabin to make sure the new cable does the turns.
3. If your cable is broken, the keel must be opened up, the pivot pin removed, 
and the board removed in order to get a new cable down. Big job. Lots of 
dollars. 

While replacing an existing cable is less expensive, it’s still a haul and yard 
job, and it is something that should be done every 5-8 years. 

 A few years ago, my cable snapped. And I learned all this the hard way. 

What did I do? I had a yard bolt the board in place, seal up the bottom and 
added a winter drain plug. No more big bills to do even the basic centerboard 
maintenance. My big concern was if there would be a real difference in 
performance and, to be honest, I have not seen any, Granted, I don’t race the 
Enterprise any more, but for the year I did with the board sealed in place, I 
was still performing well. Even on days where I was going upwind in 25, I was 
still pointing better than most of the lighter boats with deep keels. Yards 
will tell you that you will be affecting resale value, but I don’t own a boat 
fro resale value — I own a boat to have fun with. 

Part of me wants to recommend to you do to do the same. The other part of me, 
however, like knowing that I have the world’s only shoal-draft C&C 37+.

Good luck. 


All the best,

Edd (from Las Vegas, with money on the PASS line in hopes to buy the 
Enterprise-C some day.)


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 










On Jan 19, 2018, at 3:06 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hello all,

OK, so with all the talk about centerboard models, and now replacement of the 
cable itself, what is the process specific to a 37/40+?

The cable attachment at the keel seems a bit difficult to get to, as when we 
hauled the boat for survey, the board was down, but the cable attachment did 
not stick out below the bottom of the hull.  There is a cable stop up on deck 
to keep the board from going all the way down, and there is a slot in that, and 
presumably that might allow you to work with the cable to let the board all the 
way down and perhaps get access to the centerboard attachment?

Then what?  Cut the cable at the keel point, attach a messenger, and pull the 
cable out for measuring?

What does the attachment at the keel look like?

Anyone have any photos?

Thanks in advance!
 
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Enlarging existing hole in glass

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Yeah, forgot to mention that one.  That was my first plan.  Tried it.  It
didn't work for me either.  The new 2.75 inch hole saw I bought was a bit
taller than my 2.25 inch hole saw so the smaller saw didn't stick out above
the larger saw.  G.

Dennis C.

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis — don’t forget the method of stacking hole saws of different sizes
> on one mandrel.  If you have an existing 1-1/2” hole and need it to be
> 1-7/8”, you can often slide the smaller hole saw into the larger one and
> put them on the same mandrel; the smaller saw (original hole size) will
> often stand proud of the larger hole saw enough to act as a guide to start
> the new cut.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Jan 19, 2018, at 7:52 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Sometimes we're faced with enlarging an existing hole.  There are a couple
> of recognized ways to provide an "anchor" to center the pilot bit on a hole
> saw.  The most common way is to secure a piece of scrap wood over the hole
> (behind or in front) and then drill the new hole.  A second way is to cut a
> plug, place it in the hole and secure it with spray foam, etc.
>
> Well, I had to enlarge a hole on Touche' and I thought neither of the
> above methods would work.  I dreamed up another method which I've never
> seen in my web research.  Here's a link to my write up.  Perhaps someone
> will find it useful someday.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1I84iwQstTrzPcvQf2lNEWi8xeGDPcHaH
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
>
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>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Stus-List 40% off bulk rope today at West Marine

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

I just thought I would pass this along.Today West Marine is having a 40% 
off all bulk rope sale which includes in stores and online.  





-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

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Re: Stus-List Enlarging existing hole in glass

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Dennis — don’t forget the method of stacking hole saws of different sizes on 
one mandrel.  If you have an existing 1-1/2” hole and need it to be 1-7/8”, you 
can often slide the smaller hole saw into the larger one and put them on the 
same mandrel; the smaller saw (original hole size) will often stand proud of 
the larger hole saw enough to act as a guide to start the new cut.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Jan 19, 2018, at 7:52 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Sometimes we're faced with enlarging an existing hole.  There are a couple of 
> recognized ways to provide an "anchor" to center the pilot bit on a hole saw. 
>  The most common way is to secure a piece of scrap wood over the hole (behind 
> or in front) and then drill the new hole.  A second way is to cut a plug, 
> place it in the hole and secure it with spray foam, etc.
> 
> Well, I had to enlarge a hole on Touche' and I thought neither of the above 
> methods would work.  I dreamed up another method which I've never seen in my 
> web research.  Here's a link to my write up.  Perhaps someone will find it 
> useful someday.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1I84iwQstTrzPcvQf2lNEWi8xeGDPcHaH 
> 
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA

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Stus-List Enlarging existing hole in glass

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Sometimes we're faced with enlarging an existing hole.  There are a couple
of recognized ways to provide an "anchor" to center the pilot bit on a hole
saw.  The most common way is to secure a piece of scrap wood over the hole
(behind or in front) and then drill the new hole.  A second way is to cut a
plug, place it in the hole and secure it with spray foam, etc.

Well, I had to enlarge a hole on Touche' and I thought neither of the above
methods would work.  I dreamed up another method which I've never seen in
my web research.  Here's a link to my write up.  Perhaps someone will find
it useful someday.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1I84iwQstTrzPcvQf2lNEWi8xeGDPcHaH

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

This talk of collapsed mast steps has my attention since I currently have
my step removed and access to the stringers below.  I guess C&C changed
their thought/design process.  There is no wood, only hollow fiberglass
stringers and a large aluminum channel that is bolted in place on top to
act as the step.  I wonder if I need to do any reinforcements while I have
access.  I also wonder if any of these design aspects could be applied to
other's repairs projects.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fg2zKq3pl9dEsjzFH4cu-bQ43KCur0n2/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H7sZ42BLj5oihSSaAkgBo68FsuFidHTq/view?usp=drivesdk

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Jan 18, 2018 10:50 PM, "Collin Ferguson via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was
dropping into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few
questions...

1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast
step or stringers?  Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of
them called the mast step?

2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on
this task.  They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials.  I would like
to use epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the
wood to fit in.  If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy.  The
original plywood lasted 40 so I would think it should.  My question is,
what type of wood?  I was thinking White oak or Mahogany.

3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel?
Of the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to
the base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the
bottom of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through.  I'm not
sure if that was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the
hose.  There were many failed repairs to the original structure.

4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the
pieces under the mast.  The current setup only had a hose running in there
to a manual whale pump.  Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in
there?

Thanks,

Collin
1974 C&C 30 MK1
Libra
Baltimore

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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Did the mast support on Touche' about 15 years ago.  I cleaned out all the
old plywood, made a cardboard form leaving a space underneath for drainage
from forward and laid in a LOT of layers of glass/epoxy.  Not as elegant as
some but effective.  Millennia from now some archaeologist is going to
wonder what some weird shaped solid block of plastic was for.

The most important thing is to have a really good idea of the height of the
finished support.  Measure everything against a convenient reference
point.  If your existing support has subsided, you'll need to estimate by
how much.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
> I did a similar repair on my 35 MK I and I think it is pretty much the
> same. On the 35 there are flat areas on either side of the bilge sump and
> the bilge sump was spanned by a piece of wood. The mast step was aluminum
> and not very wide. The structure was essentially a beam with supports on
> each end and the mast step in middle. This was  - IMHO – a really bad way
> to design this structure and drilling a hole to drain water did NOT help at
> all! Like many other 30s and 35s, the wood on my boat got softer and softer
> and the step gradually pushed the wood down.
>
> I repaired my boat with two pieces of ½ or ¾ ply laminated together (been
> a long time) and then a ¼” aluminum plate **the width of the wood** with
> the step fitting welded in the center. My mast step does not try and push
> the wood down into the empty space under it anymore. The center part of it
> could probably rot away with no ill effects.
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> Coquina
>
> C&C 35 MK I
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I did a similar repair on my 35 MK I and I think it is pretty much the same. On 
the 35 there are flat areas on either side of the bilge sump and the bilge sump 
was spanned by a piece of wood. The mast step was aluminum and not very wide. 
The structure was essentially a beam with supports on each end and the mast 
step in middle. This was  - IMHO – a really bad way to design this structure 
and drilling a hole to drain water did NOT help at all! Like many other 30s and 
35s, the wood on my boat got softer and softer and the step gradually pushed 
the wood down.
I repaired my boat with two pieces of ½ or ¾ ply laminated together (been a 
long time) and then a ¼” aluminum plate *the width of the wood* with the step 
fitting welded in the center. My mast step does not try and push the wood down 
into the empty space under it anymore. The center part of it could probably rot 
away with no ill effects.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

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Stus-List Centerboard cable replacement process?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
OK, so with all the talk about centerboard models, and now replacement of the 
cable itself, what is the process specific to a 37/40+?
The cable attachment at the keel seems a bit difficult to get to, as when we 
hauled the boat for survey, the board was down, but the cable attachment did 
not stick out below the bottom of the hull.  There is a cable stop up on deck 
to keep the board from going all the way down, and there is a slot in that, and 
presumably that might allow you to work with the cable to let the board all the 
way down and perhaps get access to the centerboard attachment?
Then what?  Cut the cable at the keel point, attach a messenger, and pull the 
cable out for measuring?
What does the attachment at the keel look like?
Anyone have any photos?

Thanks in advance! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolt torque

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

As best I can remember, that was my experience the first time I retourqued
mine.  But that was a number of years ago.  At that point it had likely
been many years since anyone had checked the torque on the keel bolts.
They seem to hold their torque better as I check them every few years.  I
should probably check them every year.

I'll put that on my list.

Ken H.

On 18 January 2018 at 23:45, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ok so tomorrow is the short haul for keel bolt torque. Tonight I collected
> all of my tools at the boat and did a dry run by taking a few turns off of
> each nut and then retorquing to about 75%.  I wanted to make sure that any
> issues with tools and access were ironed out early.
>
> Everything worked fine.  I definitely think that using and extension on
> the output of the torque multiplier is the best way to go.  Any amount of
> separation between the multiplier and the wrench causes bizarre twisting
> actions that are hard to stabilize.  Keep the wrench directly attached to
> the multiplier.  I measured the length of the extension I would need as 13"
> and ended up having get one that was 16".  Glad I did cause it barely gets
> the multiplier head clear of the floor.
>
> All the nuts came loose and I feel comfortable that tomorrow they won't
> throw me and curves.  I'll clean, lube, and reinstall them one at a time
> while on the hard.  All of them took considerably less than their torque
> rating to loosen which indicates to me that they were indeed loose.  This
> reinforces my decision to do the work which is cathartic because in the
> back up my mind I kept saying, "Everything seems fine, you're just going to
> make things worse."  Oddly the 4 largest nuts were by far the easiest to
> loosen.  It is a little disconcerting since I don't understand what the
> implications are.
>
> I'll let everyone know how things go tomorrow.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Jan 2, 2018 3:18 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Ok Guys,
>> Since I have the mast out, this provides the rare opportunity to access
>> ALL of the keel bolts.  I've measured each of the bolt and nut diameters
>> and checked the archives for torque specs.  I intend to buy a toque
>> multiplier and the appropriate sized sockets.  I think I can do it for less
>> than the yard is going to charge and I'll come out of it with some tools.
>> I'll also be able to tell myself that it was done correctly.
>>
>> That being said it sounds like the best practices are are follows:
>> -  be on the hard
>> - loosen the bolts one at a time, clean, and lubricate with tef-gel
>> - reinstall and torque at progressively higher levels.
>>
>> I was unable to find the torque spec for my 1.5" bolt in the website but
>> Ken Heaton cited 600lbs in one of his past responses.
>>
>> Keel bolts (fwd to aft):
>>  Nut   stud   torque
>> 1 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm)  350
>> 2 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
>> 3 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
>> 4 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
>> 5 - 1 7/8 (47.5mm)1 1/4 (32mm)   450
>> 6 - 2 3/16 (56mm)  1 1/2 (38mm)  600?
>> 7 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm)  350
>> 8 - 3/4 (19.5mm)1/2 (13mm)  80
>>
>>
>> *Anything I'm missing?*
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
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>>
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>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>>
> ___
>
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>
>
>
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