Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Rule 2 would certainly cut down those pesky Swiss challenges 
Rule 5 needs to be amended to include a bottle of angustora bitters and swizzle 
sticks
Chuck Gilchrest 
S/V Half Magic

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Rules I want:
> 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
> 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
> 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
> 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston 
> Howell.
> 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
> Russell via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 9:48 AM
> To: C&C List 
> Cc: Gary Russell 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup
>  
> I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only comes from 
> racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native crews.
>  
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C&C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

The nationality rules are slowing changing.  For 2021 in New Zealand the 
rules dictate:


Twenty percent or three crew, whichever is higher, must be citizens of 
the country of the competing yacht club. The remainder of the crew can 
be made up of residents of the challenging yacht club’s country which is 
defined by being physically present in that country for a minimum of 380 
days over a two year period, between 1 September 2018 and 31 August 2020.


Don Kern
/Fireball /C&C 35 Mk2
Bristol, RI



On 9/18/2019 9:47 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only 
comes from racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native 
crews.


Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Also, the boat and sails had to be made from materials native to the
challenger's country.

Joel

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 11:47 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> During the early years, the NYYC could alter the defending boat based on
> the conditions of the day.  Challengers had to beat whatever boat America
> sent to the race.   Slightly biased.
>
>
> C
>
>
> On September 18, 2019 at 11:14 AM "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Rule 2 was an actual rule that gave a tremendous advantage to the Newport
> Yacht Club. Their Js and 12s could be as light as class rules allowed, they
> only had to sail about 20 miles from the dock in usually light summer
> conditions. Everyone else’s boats had to cross an ocean to get there and
> tended to be heavier.
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *CHARLES
> SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:40 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup
>
>
>
> That would be a fun regatta.
>
>
>
> On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
>
> Richard N. Bush
>
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
>
> 502-584-7255
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
>
> Rules I want:
>
> 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
>
> 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
>
> 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
>
> 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like
> Thurston Howell.
>
> 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

During the early years, the NYYC could alter the defending boat based on the 
conditions of the day.  Challengers had to beat whatever boat America sent to 
the race.   Slightly biased.


C


> On September 18, 2019 at 11:14 AM "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rule 2 was an actual rule that gave a tremendous advantage to the Newport 
> Yacht Club. Their Js and 12s could be as light as class rules allowed, they 
> only had to sail about 20 miles from the dock in usually light summer 
> conditions. Everyone else’s boats had to cross an ocean to get there and 
> tended to be heavier.
> 
>  
> 
> Joe Della Barba
> 
> Coquina
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:40 AM
>     To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup
> 
>  
> 
> That would be a fun regatta.  
> 
>  
> 
> > > 
> > On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
> > 
> > Richard N. Bush
> > 
> > 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> > 
> > Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> > 
> > 502-584-7255
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > Cc: Della Barba, Joe  > mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov >
> > Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
> > 
> > Rules I want:
> > 
> > 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
> > 
> > 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
> > 
> > 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
> > 
> > 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like 
> > Thurston Howell.
> > 
> > 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Joe Della Barba
> > 
> > Coquina
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. 
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > > 


 

> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 


 
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Rule 2 was an actual rule that gave a tremendous advantage to the Newport Yacht 
Club. Their Js and 12s could be as light as class rules allowed, they only had 
to sail about 20 miles from the dock in usually light summer conditions. 
Everyone else’s boats had to cross an ocean to get there and tended to be 
heavier.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of CHARLES 
SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup


That would be a fun regatta.


On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
Richard

s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
Rules I want:
1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston 
Howell.
5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina



___

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___

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

That would be a fun regatta.  


> On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
> Richard
> 
> s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
> Richard N. Bush
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
> 
> Rules I want:
> 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
> 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
> 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
> 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like 
> Thurston Howell.
> 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
>  
>  
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 
 I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
Richard
 
s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup

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{margin-bottom:0in;} -->Rules I want: 1. The boats are crewed by 
natives. 2. They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race. 3. 
Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak. 4. At least one 
person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston Howell. 5. Boats must 
carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.       Joe Della Barba Coquina   
   
___

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Rules I want:

1.  The boats are crewed by natives.

2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.

3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.

4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston 
Howell.

5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.



Joe Della Barba
Coquina




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 9:48 AM
To: C&C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup

I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only comes from 
racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native crews.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only comes
from racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native crews.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA
~~~_/)~~



On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:34 AM Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Neil,
>
> I’m going to have to side with Charlie on this one.  There’s no shortage
> of One Design regattas, perhaps the most relevant having been raced last
> weekend, the NYYC Resolute Cup, a Corinthian competition between amateur
> sailors from Yacht Clubs around the globe.  All sailing identical Melges
> IC37 boats.  It was very important racing for those clubs involved but
> received little interest outside of some industry related press.
>
> The America’s Cup has ALWAYS been a race that pitted crews and yacht
> designers and engineers, even from the very first competition.  When J
> Class, 12meter and ACC class boats were involved, there was always a “box
> rule” that allowed for creativity and design enhancements that would allow
> for innovation.  Without that innovation, we would never have molded sails,
> carbon fiber spars, or lightweight high modulus yacht ropes that are so
> popular with today’s racers.
>
>
>
> I’ve been a big AC fan ever since the 60’s and thought back then that
> Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle of sailboat racing design.  I would sit
> in middle school classes and try to duplicate her lines, her trim tab and
> rudder, drawing with a pencil using a French curve.  It fascinated me how
> different that boat was than all the other 12meters.  Where else but in a
> competition with virtually unlimited budgets would that sort of innovation
> be incubated and brought to fruition?  Think of how Ben Lexan’s winged keel
> threw the monkey wrench  into the world of sailboat design and it still
> finds its way into shoal draft keels on modern boats.  That would never
> happen if the Cup was strictly a one design event.
>
>
>
> My only regret is that the Cup competition no longer has a strong
> foundation with regards to home grown sailors.  The free agency of
> international talent with little regards to national representation has
> diluted the passion with which our country follows the event.  With such a
> domination of Aussie and Kiwi sailors in the cup, we appear to have lost
> the will to train local skippers and crew to reach for that gold ring of
> excellence that was once held by Dennis Connor, Bus Mosbacher, Paul Cayard,
> and even Bill Koch.  How to change that will depend on who winds up winning
> the Cup in this upcoming addition, but it is somewhat comforting that the
> US based challengers are using our country name to identify the syndicate
> rather than their corporate sponsor.
>
> Go Defiant!
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
> S/V Half Magic
>
> 1983 35 Landfall
>
> Padanaram, MA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Neil
> Andersen via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:29 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Neil Andersen 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America’s Cup
>
>
>
> Sorry, I’m with Charlie.  AC races should be about crews, not engineers.
>
>
>
> I’m all in favor of engineering breakthroughs, but the competitors should
> all be in the same boat and the race test the crew and cut of their sails.
>
>
>
> Neil
>
> 1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
>
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
>
> Neil Andersen
>
> 20691 Jamieson Rd
>
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of CHARLES
> SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:02 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America’s Cup
>
>
>
> Defiant looks awesome. They stated in a video that the boat foiled in her
> first 90 minutes of being on the water. The video shows her turning at
> speed and looking very steady proving they are doing many things right. I'm
> a huge fan of Americas Cup cause it pushes the possibilities of sailing,
> keeps designers and builders busy, and is very entertaining. Foiling has
> been around a while but recent developments have produced foils that work
> at low speeds like standup paddle boards and even surfboards. The other
> night I watched an hour long documentary of Larry Ellison winning the cup
> back from the Swiss several years before the foiling catamarans. I also
> watched a video of a guy in Truro, England (Poldark area) building fifty
> foot Pilot Cutters in wood and training young people to be builders. BTW,
> my boat takes her name from an Americas Cup defender of 1920, Resolute. She
> was short on the waterline with a bigger than normal sailplan and struggled
> but kept the cup. She was gaff rigged with three headsails and designed by
> Nat Herreshoff who designed and raced the first catamaran and designed the
> first fin keel w bulb. If he were alive today, I'm sure he would be testing
> all the cutting edge materials and designing foils.
>

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

I loved the IC 37 event. Real people on real boats. Even made real mistakes we 
can identify with. Hope this concept becomes more popular.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:34 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hi Neil,
I’m going to have to side with Charlie on this one.  There’s no shortage of One 
Design regattas, perhaps the most relevant having been raced last weekend, the 
NYYC Resolute Cup, a Corinthian competition between amateur sailors from Yacht 
Clubs around the globe.  All sailing identical Melges IC37 boats.  It was very 
important racing for those clubs involved but received little interest outside 
of some industry related press.
The America’s Cup has ALWAYS been a race that pitted crews and yacht designers 
and engineers, even from the very first competition.  When J Class, 12meter and 
ACC class boats were involved, there was always a “box rule” that allowed for 
creativity and design enhancements that would allow for innovation.  Without 
that innovation, we would never have molded sails, carbon fiber spars, or 
lightweight high modulus yacht ropes that are so popular with today’s racers.

I’ve been a big AC fan ever since the 60’s and thought back then that Intrepid 
was the absolute pinnacle of sailboat racing design.  I would sit in middle 
school classes and try to duplicate her lines, her trim tab and rudder, drawing 
with a pencil using a French curve.  It fascinated me how different that boat 
was than all the other 12meters.  Where else but in a competition with 
virtually unlimited budgets would that sort of innovation be incubated and 
brought to fruition?  Think of how Ben Lexan’s winged keel threw the monkey 
wrench  into the world of sailboat design and it still finds its way into shoal 
draft keels on modern boats.  That would never happen if the Cup was strictly a 
one design event.

My only regret is that the Cup competition no longer has a strong foundation 
with regards to home grown sailors.  The free agency of international talent 
with little regards to national representation has diluted the passion with 
which our country follows the event.  With such a domination of Aussie and Kiwi 
sailors in the cup, we appear to have lost the will to train local skippers and 
crew to reach for that gold ring of excellence that was once held by Dennis 
Connor, Bus Mosbacher, Paul Cayard, and even Bill Koch.  How to change that 
will depend on who winds up winning the Cup in this upcoming addition, but it 
is somewhat comforting that the US based challengers are using our country name 
to identify the syndicate rather than their corporate sponsor.
Go Defiant!
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Neil Andersen via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil Andersen 
mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List America’s Cup

Sorry, I’m with Charlie.  AC races should be about crews, not engineers.

I’m all in favor of engineering breakthroughs, but the competitors should all 
be in the same boat and the race test the crew and cut of their sails.

Neil
1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER
Subject: Re: Stus-List America’s Cup

Defiant looks awesome. They stated in a video that the boat foiled in her first 
90 minutes of being on the water. The video shows her turning at speed and 
looking very steady proving they are doing many things right. I'm a huge fan of 
Americas Cup cause it pushes the possibilities of sailing, keeps designers and 
builders busy, and is very entertaining. Foiling has been around a while but 
recent developments have produced foils that work at low speeds like standup 
paddle boards and even surfboards. The other night I watched an hour long 
documentary of Larry Ellison winning the cup back from the Swiss several years 
before the foiling catamarans. I also watched a video of a guy in Truro, 
England (Poldark area) building fifty foot Pilot Cutters in wood and training 
young people to be builders. BTW, my boat takes her name from an Americas Cup 
defender of 1920, Resolute. She was short on the waterline with a bigger than 
normal sailplan and struggled but kept the cup. She was gaff rigged with three 
headsails and designed by Nat Herreshoff who designed and raced the first 
catamaran and designed the first fin keel w bulb. If he were alive today, I'm 
sure he would be testing all the cutting edge materials and designing foils.

The new AC boats

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Hi Neil,

I'm going to have to side with Charlie on this one.  There's no shortage of
One Design regattas, perhaps the most relevant having been raced last
weekend, the NYYC Resolute Cup, a Corinthian competition between amateur
sailors from Yacht Clubs around the globe.  All sailing identical Melges
IC37 boats.  It was very important racing for those clubs involved but
received little interest outside of some industry related press.

The America's Cup has ALWAYS been a race that pitted crews and yacht
designers and engineers, even from the very first competition.  When J
Class, 12meter and ACC class boats were involved, there was always a "box
rule" that allowed for creativity and design enhancements that would allow
for innovation.  Without that innovation, we would never have molded sails,
carbon fiber spars, or lightweight high modulus yacht ropes that are so
popular with today's racers.

 

I've been a big AC fan ever since the 60's and thought back then that
Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle of sailboat racing design.  I would sit
in middle school classes and try to duplicate her lines, her trim tab and
rudder, drawing with a pencil using a French curve.  It fascinated me how
different that boat was than all the other 12meters.  Where else but in a
competition with virtually unlimited budgets would that sort of innovation
be incubated and brought to fruition?  Think of how Ben Lexan's winged keel
threw the monkey wrench  into the world of sailboat design and it still
finds its way into shoal draft keels on modern boats.  That would never
happen if the Cup was strictly a one design event.

 

My only regret is that the Cup competition no longer has a strong foundation
with regards to home grown sailors.  The free agency of international talent
with little regards to national representation has diluted the passion with
which our country follows the event.  With such a domination of Aussie and
Kiwi sailors in the cup, we appear to have lost the will to train local
skippers and crew to reach for that gold ring of excellence that was once
held by Dennis Connor, Bus Mosbacher, Paul Cayard, and even Bill Koch.  How
to change that will depend on who winds up winning the Cup in this upcoming
addition, but it is somewhat comforting that the US based challengers are
using our country name to identify the syndicate rather than their corporate
sponsor.

Go Defiant!

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Neil Andersen
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil Andersen 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup

 

Sorry, I'm with Charlie.  AC races should be about crews, not engineers.

 

I'm all in favor of engineering breakthroughs, but the competitors should
all be in the same boat and the race test the crew and cut of their sails. 

 

Neil

1982 C&C 32, FoxFire

Rock Hall, MD

 

Neil Andersen

20691 Jamieson Rd

Rock Hall, MD 21661

 

  _  

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > on behalf of CHARLES SCHEAFFER via
CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup 

 

Defiant looks awesome. They stated in a video that the boat foiled in her
first 90 minutes of being on the water. The video shows her turning at speed
and looking very steady proving they are doing many things right. I'm a huge
fan of Americas Cup cause it pushes the possibilities of sailing, keeps
designers and builders busy, and is very entertaining. Foiling has been
around a while but recent developments have produced foils that work at low
speeds like standup paddle boards and even surfboards. The other night I
watched an hour long documentary of Larry Ellison winning the cup back from
the Swiss several years before the foiling catamarans. I also watched a
video of a guy in Truro, England (Poldark area) building fifty foot Pilot
Cutters in wood and training young people to be builders. BTW, my boat takes
her name from an Americas Cup defender of 1920, Resolute. She was short on
the waterline with a bigger than normal sailplan and struggled but kept the
cup. She was gaff rigged with three headsails and designed by Nat Herreshoff
who designed and raced the first catamaran and designed the first fin keel w
bulb. If he were alive today, I'm sure he would be testing all the cutting
edge materials and designing foils. 

The new AC boats will be 75 feet long, foiling monohulls, no keel, no
centerboards, the foils are attached to arms that rotate the windward foil
up to act as a counterweight. Eleven man crews. New Zealand is defending
against America, England and Italy, so there will be four boats. The races
are in 2021 so they have two years to practice

Re: Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned

[Graham Collins]

You didn't learn the most important lesson!  Get it up on the foils 
first!  I'm sure it is applicable to C&Cs...  Hmm...  have to look at 
adding appendages this winter...


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2013-09-25 7:50 PM, Bob Moriarty wrote:
I watched many of the America's Cup races "live" on Virtual Eye and 
then often caught the "actual video" replays when they became 
available on YouTube.
As a half-fast beercan racer I watched and analyzed with great 
interest, ingesting a lot of information but not a lot of knowledge. I 
don't think I learned anything that can be applied to my Wednesday 
night efforts.

Let's see, If I'm ahead, I should cover - unless I should split. hmm.
Though I did learn that if you have to roll the dice, just hope they 
come up Yahtzee.


Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL


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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Colin Kilgour]

I stand corrected.   I always thought of him as a Laser only guy.



On 9/25/13, Ken Heaton  wrote:
> Colin, according to Wilipedia:
>
> Ben Ainslie won silver at the 1996 Olympic
> Games<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Olympic_Games> and
> gold in the 2000 Summer
> Olympics<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics>
> in
> the Laser <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(dinghy)> class. He gained
> some 18 kilograms (40 lb) and moved to the larger
> Finn<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn_(dinghy)> class
> for the 2004 Summer
> Olympics<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics>,
> where he won gold, a feat he repeated in the
> 2008<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class>
>  and
> 2012<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class>
>  competitions. Both his gold medal winning Laser and Finn dinghies are
> currently at the National Maritime Museum
> Cornwall<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maritime_Museum_Cornwall>
> .
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On 25 September 2013 19:49, Colin Kilgour  wrote:
>
>> Roger, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I was going to, but didn't want
>> to be the 'dinghy nerd'.
>>
>> For full points though, you should have pointed out that Ainslie races
>> a Laser, not a Finn, and that he didn't win A gold medal, he won 4 of
>> them, which (imo) makes him one of the most accomplished Olympic
>> athletes of all time.   (I discount runners and swimmers because
>> they're able to run in multiple events in the same games, whereas
>> Ainslie's 4 golds span 4 games and 13 years.  That's a long time to be
>> the best in the world)
>>
>> Btw - Laser's not a skiff either.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Colin
>>
>> On 9/25/13, Roger Ware  wrote:
>> > The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
>> Chuck S
>> > Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
>> > To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
>> > twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
>> > local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America
>> > lost
>> the
>> > cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so
>> many
>> > times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.
>> > This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the
>> tactician
>> > is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one
>> > man
>> > skiff.
>> >
>> > But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right
>> > up
>> > thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats
>> were
>> > enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
>> > Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish
>> steam,
>> > a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Chuck
>> > Resolute
>> > 1990 C&C 34R
>> > Atlantic City, NJ
>> >
>> >   _
>> >
>> > From: "Bev Parslow" 
>> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
>> > Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.
>> >
>> > I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
>> used
>> > an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
>> > seem
>> to
>> > have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact
>> we
>> > have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
>> > American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
>> > designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
>> > sponsorship from the state.
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

Colin, according to Wilipedia:

Ben Ainslie won silver at the 1996 Olympic
Games<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Olympic_Games> and
gold in the 2000 Summer
Olympics<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics>
in
the Laser <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(dinghy)> class. He gained
some 18 kilograms (40 lb) and moved to the larger
Finn<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn_(dinghy)> class
for the 2004 Summer
Olympics<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics>,
where he won gold, a feat he repeated in the
2008<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class>
 and 
2012<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class>
 competitions. Both his gold medal winning Laser and Finn dinghies are
currently at the National Maritime Museum
Cornwall<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maritime_Museum_Cornwall>
.

Ken H.


On 25 September 2013 19:49, Colin Kilgour  wrote:

> Roger, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I was going to, but didn't want
> to be the 'dinghy nerd'.
>
> For full points though, you should have pointed out that Ainslie races
> a Laser, not a Finn, and that he didn't win A gold medal, he won 4 of
> them, which (imo) makes him one of the most accomplished Olympic
> athletes of all time.   (I discount runners and swimmers because
> they're able to run in multiple events in the same games, whereas
> Ainslie's 4 golds span 4 games and 13 years.  That's a long time to be
> the best in the world)
>
> Btw - Laser's not a skiff either.
>
> Cheers
> Colin
>
> On 9/25/13, Roger Ware  wrote:
> > The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.
> >
> > Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON
> >
> >
> >
> > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Chuck S
> > Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
> > To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
> > twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
> > local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost
> the
> > cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so
> many
> > times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.
> > This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the
> tactician
> > is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man
> > skiff.
> >
> > But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up
> > thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats
> were
> > enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
> > Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish
> steam,
> > a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chuck
> > Resolute
> > 1990 C&C 34R
> > Atlantic City, NJ
> >
> >   _
> >
> > From: "Bev Parslow" 
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
> > Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.
> >
> > I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
> used
> > an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem
> to
> > have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact
> we
> > have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
> > American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
> > designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
> > sponsorship from the state.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned

[Glen Eddie]

That was the best quote for the AC.

Glen Eddie
Torkin Manes LLP
Barristers and Solicitors
Tel: 416-777-5357

From: Bob Moriarty
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 6:50 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned


I watched many of the America's Cup races "live" on Virtual Eye and then often 
caught the "actual video" replays when they became available on YouTube.
As a half-fast beercan racer I watched and analyzed with great interest, 
ingesting a lot of information but not a lot of knowledge. I don't think I 
learned anything that can be applied to my Wednesday night efforts.
Let's see, If I'm ahead, I should cover - unless I should split. hmm.
Though I did learn that if you have to roll the dice, just hope they come up 
Yahtzee.

Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL



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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Colin Kilgour]

Roger, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I was going to, but didn't want
to be the 'dinghy nerd'.

For full points though, you should have pointed out that Ainslie races
a Laser, not a Finn, and that he didn't win A gold medal, he won 4 of
them, which (imo) makes him one of the most accomplished Olympic
athletes of all time.   (I discount runners and swimmers because
they're able to run in multiple events in the same games, whereas
Ainslie's 4 golds span 4 games and 13 years.  That's a long time to be
the best in the world)

Btw - Laser's not a skiff either.

Cheers
Colin

On 9/25/13, Roger Ware  wrote:
> The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.
>
> Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON
>
>
>
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
> Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
> To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>
>
>
> I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
> twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
> local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost the
> cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so many
> times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.
> This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the tactician
> is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man
> skiff.
>
> But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up
> thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats were
> enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
> Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam,
> a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.
>
>
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
>
>   _
>
> From: "Bev Parslow" 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
> Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.
>
> I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
> an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to
> have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we
> have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
> American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
> designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
> sponsorship from the state.
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Roger Ware]

The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.

Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The twelve 
meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from local 
colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost the cup.  I 
think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so many times in a 
row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.  This year's 
American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the tactician is a Brit who 
won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man skiff.  

But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up thru 
to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats were 
enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, 
skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam, a gang of 
Swedes, or other nationalities.



Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

  _  

From: "Bev Parslow" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.

I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used an 
atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to have 
an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we have only 
one American on board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. 
This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made in that 
country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the state.


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Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Colin Kilgour]

No conspiracy, imo.

If it was as simple as that, John Kostecki wouldn't have been fired.

As the only American in a 'skill position', they'd want to keep him on
the boat if possible.  It's unlikely they threw him under the bus just
for the fun of it.

Cheers
Colin

On 9/24/13, Brent Driedger  wrote:
> The thought has crossed my mind considering the money at stake and the ego
> of the big push.
>
> Brent
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Andrew Burton 
>> wrote:
>>
>> One thing for sure, the sponsors are getting their money's worth! At
>> least, I certainly hope they are. I won't complain if they do the same
>> thing again...and I bet there would be more boats lined up to sail, too
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Andrew Burton
>> 61 W Narragansett
>> Newport, RI
>> USA02840
>>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>> +401 965-5260
>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:25, Chuck S  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup.  I doubt an NZ
>>> competitor would lose so many races to allow an even final race.  But I
>>> wouldn't doubt Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag
>>> the first few races and force their guys to sail better.  I'd love San
>>> Francisco to keep the cup but I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or
>>> the non-American crew.  Whoever wins deserves it.
>>>
>>> I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause, " must win by two
>>> races" similar to tennis.Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around
>>> an island similar to the original race by schooner America.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>> Resolute
>>> 1990 C&C 34R
>>> Atlantic City, NJ
>>> From: "Indigo" 
>>> To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>>>
>>> Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch
>>> up to increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better
>>> televised, followed by the non-sailing media?
>>>
>>> I agree that this has been one spectacular AC.  I just wish I had had the
>>> opportunity to see them live from SF Bay!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Brent Driedger]

The thought has crossed my mind considering the money at stake and the ego of 
the big push. 

Brent

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> 
> One thing for sure, the sponsors are getting their money's worth! At least, I 
> certainly hope they are. I won't complain if they do the same thing 
> again...and I bet there would be more boats lined up to sail, too
> 
> Andy
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:25, Chuck S  wrote:
>> 
>> I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup.  I doubt an NZ 
>> competitor would lose so many races to allow an even final race.  But I 
>> wouldn't doubt Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag 
>> the first few races and force their guys to sail better.  I'd love San 
>> Francisco to keep the cup but I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or the 
>> non-American crew.  Whoever wins deserves it.  
>> 
>> I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause, " must win by two races" 
>> similar to tennis.Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around an island 
>> similar to the original race by schooner America.
>> 
>> Chuck
>> Resolute
>> 1990 C&C 34R
>> Atlantic City, NJ
>> From: "Indigo" 
>> To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>> 
>> Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch up 
>> to increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better 
>> televised, followed by the non-sailing media?
>>  
>> I agree that this has been one spectacular AC.  I just wish I had had the 
>> opportunity to see them live from SF Bay!
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Andrew Burton]

One thing for sure, the sponsors are getting their money's worth! At least, I 
certainly hope they are. I won't complain if they do the same thing again...and 
I bet there would be more boats lined up to sail, too

Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:25, Chuck S  wrote:

> I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup.  I doubt an NZ competitor 
> would lose so many races to allow an even final race.  But I wouldn't doubt 
> Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag the first few 
> races and force their guys to sail better.  I'd love San Francisco to keep 
> the cup but I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or the non-American crew.  
> Whoever wins deserves it.  
> 
> I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause, " must win by two races" 
> similar to tennis.Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around an island 
> similar to the original race by schooner America.
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "Indigo" 
> To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
> 
> Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch up to 
> increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better televised, 
> followed by the non-sailing media?
>  
> I agree that this has been one spectacular AC.  I just wish I had had the 
> opportunity to see them live from SF Bay!
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983

[Andrew Burton]

The american JB scored a bronze in Finns in 84 for the US. He was born in 
California in '56, which makes him about 10 years younger than the Australian 
JB. It was the American who sailed with Dennis.  
http://www.sailingworld.com/experts/the-master-returns

It's just an odd coincidence that there are two world class sailors with the 
same name.

Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:59, Chuck S  wrote:

> John Bertrand is the Australian skipper who won the cup from Dennis in 1983.  
> I believe he did go to college in the US and graduated MIT, sailed with 
> Dennis but later skippered Australia II and later Australian defenders and 
> challengers.  He also is known as the skipper of the Australian Americas Cup 
> Louis Voitton challenger boat that sank in San Diego in 1995.  Small world.
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "Andrew Burton" 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:36:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983
> 
> There's an American John Bertrand. I suspect he's the one who sailed with 
> Dennis.
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:08, Chuck S  wrote:
> 
> Read both accounts of the 1983 race, one by Dennis Conners and one by John 
> Bertrand and it seems "reading windshifts and adjusting strategy to the wind" 
> was key to the race.  The winged keel was just a red herring.  
> 
> Another point, the sailboat racing community is rather small.  John Bertrand 
> crewed for Conners as a trimmer on an earlier Americas Cup campaign.  
> 
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "Harry Hallgring" 
> To: w...@wbryant.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:44:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
> 
> I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
> likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
> Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty 
> went into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and 
> they watched Australia II get better and faster every race.  Hopefully Oracle 
> can pull it off tomorrow!
> ___
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983

[Chuck S]

John Bertrand is the Australian skipper who won the cup from Dennis in 1983. I 
believe he did go to college in the US and graduated MIT, sailed with Dennis 
but later skippered Australia II and later Australian defenders and 
challengers. He also is known as the skipper of the Australian Americas Cup 
Louis Voitton challenger boat that sank in San Diego in 1995. Small world. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Burton"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:36:09 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983 


There's an American John Bertrand. I suspect he's the one who sailed with 
Dennis. 

Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett 
Newport, RI 
USA 02840 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
+401 965-5260 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:08, Chuck S < cscheaf...@comcast.net > wrote: 





Read both accounts of the 1983 race, one by Dennis Conners and one by John 
Bertrand and it seems "reading windshifts and adjusting strategy to the wind" 
was key to the race. The winged keel was just a red herring. 

Another point, the sailboat racing community is rather small. John Bertrand 
crewed for Conners as a trimmer on an earlier Americas Cup campaign. 



Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Harry Hallgring" < hhallgr...@icloud.com > 
To: w...@wbryant.com , cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:44:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup. 

I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty went 
into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and they 
watched Australia II get better and faster every race. Hopefully Oracle can 
pull it off tomorrow! 
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983

[Andrew Burton]

There's an American John Bertrand. I suspect he's the one who sailed with 
Dennis.

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:08, Chuck S  wrote:

> Read both accounts of the 1983 race, one by Dennis Conners and one by John 
> Bertrand and it seems "reading windshifts and adjusting strategy to the wind" 
> was key to the race.  The winged keel was just a red herring.  
> 
> Another point, the sailboat racing community is rather small.  John Bertrand 
> crewed for Conners as a trimmer on an earlier Americas Cup campaign.  
> 
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "Harry Hallgring" 
> To: w...@wbryant.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:44:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
> 
> I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
> likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
> Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty 
> went into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and 
> they watched Australia II get better and faster every race.  Hopefully Oracle 
> can pull it off tomorrow!
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Chuck S]

I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup. I doubt an NZ competitor 
would lose so many races to allow an even final race. But I wouldn't doubt 
Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag the first few races 
and force their guys to sail better. I'd love San Francisco to keep the cup but 
I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or the non-American crew. Whoever wins 
deserves it. 

I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause, " must win by two races" 
similar to tennis. Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around an island similar 
to the original race by schooner America. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Indigo"  
To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup. 




Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch up to 
increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better televised, 
followed by the non-sailing media? 



I agree that this has been one spectacular AC. I just wish I had had the 
opportunity to see them live from SF Bay! 






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Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983

[Chuck S]

Read both accounts of the 1983 race, one by Dennis Conners and one by John 
Bertrand and it seems "reading windshifts and adjusting strategy to the wind" 
was key to the race. The winged keel was just a red herring. 

Another point, the sailboat racing community is rather small. John Bertrand 
crewed for Conners as a trimmer on an earlier Americas Cup campaign . 



Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Harry Hallgring"  
To: w...@wbryant.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:44:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup. 

I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty went 
into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and they 
watched Australia II get better and faster every race. Hopefully Oracle can 
pull it off tomorrow! 
___ 
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Harry Hallgring]

I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty went 
into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and they 
watched Australia II get better and faster every race.  Hopefully Oracle can 
pull it off tomorrow!
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Wally Bryant]

Umm, sorry, sometimes I'm too obscure for even myself to understand.  
That's from 'Mercury Blues', and good old boat -- I mean tune.


I wrote:

(ahem...)
If I were Larry Ellison
I tell you what I'd do.. 



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Re: Stus-List America's Cup. - cavitation

[Dennis C.]

Most of the research the US Navy did on cavitation had to do with nuclear 
submarine propellers.  I isn't just classified, it's HIGHLY classified.  The US 
subs have the quietest props.  You can understand a noisy propeller would not 
be a good thing on a submarine.


I was stationed at a Navy shipyard for a year.  As a Navy safety officer, I had 
access to all areas of the shipyard.  All areas EXCEPT the propeller shop when 
a nuke sub prop was being worked on.  The prop was always kept behind screens.  
There was always 1 or 2 armed Marines outside the screen.  They didn't even 
like me approaching them to chat.  They always politely asked me to move away.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA




>
> From: Steve Thomas 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:44 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
> 
>
>
> 
>The 
Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60 
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and 
operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 
knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering 
data on how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it? 
>Did 
the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the 
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for 
safety?
> 
>Steve 
Thomas
>C&C27 MKIII
> 
>
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Wally Bryant]

I have often thought that they should make the teams buy old 40 foot IOR 
era boats and fix them up and then race them.  *That* would put the 
Americas Cup within the reach of the common man.


(ahem...)
If I were Larry Ellison
I tell you what I'd do..
I'd go downtown
and buy a Mercury too!


Wal


Gary Russell wrote:

As a monohull guy, I lament the demise of the monohulls in the America's
Cup.



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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Gary Russell]

As a monohull guy, I lament the demise of the monohulls in the America's
Cup.  That beings said, I must admit that It is a hoot watch sailboats
doing 40 kts., In contrast to past Americas Cups, I must say that NBC
sports (including Gary Jobson and Ken Read) have done a fantastic job
bringing the new Americas Cup into our living rooms.

Gary
S/V Expresso
'75 C&C 35 Mk II
East Greenwich, RI, USA


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Bill Coleman  wrote:

>  << Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal
> with the cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules
> limits for safety?>>
>
> ** **
>
> These boats were never intended to hydrofoil! The Kiwis sawr a loophole in
> the rules and put them on their boat, and because there was nothing
> specifically outlawring them, the other countries had to follow suit.  I
> can just imagine the feeling when they tack or jibe in 23 kts and they pop
> out of the water as similar to the feeling of a jet cranking up and
> throwing you back in your seat!
>
> ** **
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
> Thomas
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:45 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>
> ** **
>
> The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60
> knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and
> operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50
> knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering data on
> how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it? **
> **
>
> Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the
> cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
> safety?
>
>  
>
> Steve Thomas
>
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>  
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]*On Behalf Of *Bill
> Coleman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>
> I think it may be the best ever. 
>
> I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
> games and yelling and jumping – 
>
> Now I understand a little better. 
>
> ** **
>
> Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis’s Blog – 
>
> <
> ** **
>
> I cracked the books a bit and ran some numbers yesterday. I think I have a
> good reason for the wind speed limit being set where it is. Wow was I
> wrong. The boats ended up being faster than they predicted, i.e. the
> designs were too good. :-) This put them dangerously close to putting the
> foils into cavitation speeds (~50+) that could have lead to real control
> problems.
>
> ** **
>
> Basically they want to limit boat speed to under 50 knots to stay safely
> out of foil cavitation speeds. The boats can sail over 2x wind speed and in
> some ranges are close to or at 3x wind speed the TWS needed to keep them
> below 50 knots is in the 22-24 knot range.
>
> ** **
>
> The wind limit for safety was not a reaction to the Artemis disaster as I
> assumed incorrectly. I had assumed the limit was for structural concerns
> not an unforeseen design challenge.
>
> ** **
>
> If they want higher wind speed limits they have to lose the foiling to
> remove the “50 knot barrier” or they can lose the wing to reduce the top
> speed of the boats to under 3x wind speed.
>
> ** **
>
> If they want to keep the full foiling and hard wings they are stuck with a
> low wind speed limit until they solve the cavitation issue. Sort of ironic
> that the faster the boat is relative to wind speed the lower the safe wind
> speed becomes. If indeed the wind limit was lowered due to concerns about
> foil cavitation then they got it right and the engineering math supports it.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> It is not about being pansies, or poor design, or reaction to the Artemis
> disaster. It is about unforeseen design success.
>
> ** **
>
> Stop bitching about the boats being too fragile to sail in 30+
>
> Start celebrating that they are too fast to sail in over 25.
>
> ** **
>
> I’m surprised that none of the SA techies from AC33 had done the figures
> to reach this conclusion.>>
>
> ** **
>
> When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they
> should see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 
>
> With water ambulances on hand, of course

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Bill Coleman]

<< Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with
the cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
safety?>>

 

These boats were never intended to hydrofoil! The Kiwis sawr a loophole in
the rules and put them on their boat, and because there was nothing
specifically outlawring them, the other countries had to follow suit.  I can
just imagine the feeling when they tack or jibe in 23 kts and they pop out
of the water as similar to the feeling of a jet cranking up and throwing you
back in your seat!

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and operational
hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 knot limit you
mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering data on how to deal
with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it? 

Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
safety?

 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

I think it may be the best ever. 

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
games and yelling and jumping - 

Now I understand a little better. 

 

Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog - 

<>

 

When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 

With water ambulances on hand, of course.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

 

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3
975975.html

 

Ken H.

 

On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Bev,

 

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but
the boat "America". 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/>  Captain's Log
Website

 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:

 

I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to
have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we
have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
sponsorship from the state.

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Andrew Burton]

they tried running a hydrofoil between Seattle and Victoria years ago. They
quit it because they kept wiping out foils on logs!

Andy
Peregrine
C&C 40


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Steve Thomas  wrote:

> **
> The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60
> knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and
> operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50
> knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering data on
> how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it?
> Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the
> cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
> safety?
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]*On Behalf Of *Bill
> Coleman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>
>  I think it may be the best ever. 
>
> I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
> games and yelling and jumping – 
>
> Now I understand a little better. 
>
> ** **
>
> Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis’s Blog – 
>
> <
> ** **
>
> I cracked the books a bit and ran some numbers yesterday. I think I have a
> good reason for the wind speed limit being set where it is. Wow was I
> wrong. The boats ended up being faster than they predicted, i.e. the
> designs were too good. :-) This put them dangerously close to putting the
> foils into cavitation speeds (~50+) that could have lead to real control
> problems.
>
> ** **
>
> Basically they want to limit boat speed to under 50 knots to stay safely
> out of foil cavitation speeds. The boats can sail over 2x wind speed and in
> some ranges are close to or at 3x wind speed the TWS needed to keep them
> below 50 knots is in the 22-24 knot range.
>
> ** **
>
> The wind limit for safety was not a reaction to the Artemis disaster as I
> assumed incorrectly. I had assumed the limit was for structural concerns
> not an unforeseen design challenge.
>
> ** **
>
> If they want higher wind speed limits they have to lose the foiling to
> remove the “50 knot barrier” or they can lose the wing to reduce the top
> speed of the boats to under 3x wind speed.
>
> ** **
>
> If they want to keep the full foiling and hard wings they are stuck with a
> low wind speed limit until they solve the cavitation issue. Sort of ironic
> that the faster the boat is relative to wind speed the lower the safe wind
> speed becomes. If indeed the wind limit was lowered due to concerns about
> foil cavitation then they got it right and the engineering math supports it.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> It is not about being pansies, or poor design, or reaction to the Artemis
> disaster. It is about unforeseen design success.
>
> ** **
>
> Stop bitching about the boats being too fragile to sail in 30+
>
> Start celebrating that they are too fast to sail in over 25.
>
> ** **
>
> I’m surprised that none of the SA techies from AC33 had done the figures
> to reach this conclusion.>>
>
> ** **
>
> When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they
> should see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 
>
> With water ambulances on hand, of course.
>
> ** **
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
> Heaton
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
> *To:* cnc-list
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
>
> ** **
>
> I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
> this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
> early 1980's.
>
> ** **
>
> There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article
> in the Huffington Post:
>
> ** **
>
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3975975.html
> 
>
> ** **
>
> Ken H.
>
> ** **
>
> On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:
>
> Bev,
>
> ** **
>
> The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
> boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 
>
> ** **
>
> I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country,
> but the boat "America". 
>
> ** **
>
> All the best,
>
> ** **
>

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Steve Thomas]

The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60 
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed
and operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 
knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s)
of engineering data on how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be 
classified. Can it?
Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the 
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on
rules limits for safety?

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.


I think it may be the best ever.

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football games 
and yelling and jumping -

Now I understand a little better.



Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog -

<>



When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should 
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts +

With water ambulances on hand, of course.



Bill Coleman

C&C 39



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.



I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following this 
one every day and I haven't done that fir years,
probably since the early 1980's.



There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in the 
Huffington Post:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3975975.html



Ken H.



On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Bev,



The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the boats, 
but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots.



I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but 
the boat "America".



All the best,



Edd





Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website



On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:



  I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used 
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants
being interviewed seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour 
has it that in fact we have only one American on
board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. This really is 
quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made
in that country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the 
state.

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com




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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Andrew Burton]

did you guys see that?! this is incredible stuff!

I was the biggest naysayer around but I was wrong!



On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

> I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
> twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
> local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost
> the cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so
> many times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international
> fame.  This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the
> tactician is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a
> one man skiff.
>
> But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up
> thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats
> were enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
> Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam,
> a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.
>
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> --
> *From: *"Bev Parslow" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
> *Subject: *Stus-List America's Cup.
>
>
> I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
> used an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
> seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in
> fact we have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called
> the American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
> designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
> sponsorship from the state.
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Bill Coleman]

I think it may be the best ever. 

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
games and yelling and jumping - 

Now I understand a little better. 

 

Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog - 

<>

 

When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 

With water ambulances on hand, of course.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

 

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3
975975.html

 

Ken H.

 

On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Bev,

 

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but
the boat "America". 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/>  Captain's Log
Website

 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:

 

I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to
have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we
have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
sponsorship from the state.

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 


___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 

___
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Indigo]

Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi's letting Oracle catch up
to increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better
televised, followed by the non-sailing media?

 

I agree that this has been one spectacular AC.  I just wish I had had the
opportunity to see them live from SF Bay!

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

 

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3
975975.html

 

Ken H.

 

On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Bev,

 

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but
the boat "America". 






All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
<http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/> 

 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:

 

I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to
have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we
have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
sponsorship from the state.

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 


___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3975975.html

Ken H.


On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:

> Bev,
>
>  The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
> boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots.
>
> I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country,
> but the boat "America".
>
>
>  All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>  City Island, NY
>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
>
> On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:
>
> I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
> used an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
> seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in
> fact we have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called
> the American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
> designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
> sponsorship from the state.
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Della Barba, Joe]

I want to carry on with the idea the boat is built in the challenging country 
and sails to the race venue on her own bottom.
Worked wonders for light air racing in Newport where our boats could be light 
and our friends across the ocean – not so much LOL

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:15 PM
To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The twelve 
meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from local 
colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost the cup.  I 
think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so many times in a 
row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.  This year's 
American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the tactician is a Brit who 
won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man skiff.

But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up thru 
to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats were 
enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, 
skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam, a gang of 
Swedes, or other nationalities.

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "Bev Parslow" mailto:bparslo...@yahoo.ca>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.
I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used an 
atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to have 
an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we have only 
one American on board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. 
This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made in that 
country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the state.

___
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Chuck S]

I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years. The twelve 
meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from local 
colleges. That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost the cup. I 
think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so many times in a 
row. Now it's all paid professionals of international fame. This year's 
American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the tactician is a Brit who 
won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man skiff. 

But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up thru 
to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now. The American boats were enormous 
boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, skippered 
by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam, a gang of Swedes, or 
other nationalities. 



Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Bev Parslow"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM 
Subject: Stus-List America's Cup. 



I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used an 
atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to have 
an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we have only 
one American on board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. 
This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made in that 
country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the state. 
___ 
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

To quote a friend of mine:

"A funny thing about the America's Cup. It isn't owned by anyone. The deed
is entrusted and the terms of the deed are enforced by the courts in New
York State. As a result, the AC is precisely and exactly what Mr. Jewett
wanted it to be when he wrote it. While all of us may argue various
strategies about what would make the cup "better" in our various opinions,
none of them matter one wit. The Deed says exactly what the Cup will be.

The interesting thing is that the deed is such a simple document and has
worked so well for so long. We've had numerous lawsuits, and nearly had
some fist fights, but in the end over 162 years the deed and guided the Cup
through match after match.

The formula is so simple.

1) If you can get agreement between challenger and defender, then you can
do whatever you want. If you can't it's a DoG match.
2) See #1 above.

I think this has worked rather well for a long time."

Ken H
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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Colin Kilgour]

Bev,

I think you want the Olympics, not the America's Cup.

And regarding 'southern hemisphere' accents, the best sailor on the
water - on either boat - hails from Britain, 3000nm north of the
equator.

Cheers
Colin


On 9/24/13, Edd Schillay  wrote:
> From Wikipedia:
>
> The America's Cup, affectionately known as the "Auld Mug", is a trophy
> awarded to the winner of the America's Cup match races between two sailing
> yachts. One yacht, known as the defender, represents the yacht club that
> currently holds the America's Cup and the second yacht, known as the
> challenger, represents the yacht club that is challenging for the cup. The
> America's Cup is the oldest international sporting trophy.[1]
> The trophy was originally awarded in 1851 by the Royal Yacht Squadron for a
> race around the Isle of Wight in England, which was won by the schooner
> America. The trophy was renamed the America's Cup after the yacht and was
> donated to the New York Yacht Club (NYYC) under the terms of the Deed of
> Gift, which made the cup available for perpetual international competition.
>
>
>   
>   All the best,
>
>   Edd
>
>
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
>
> On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Edd Schillay  wrote:
>
>> Bev,
>>
>>  The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
>> boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots.
>>
>>  I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country,
>> but the boat "America".
>>
>>
>>  
>>  All the best,
>>
>>  Edd
>>
>>
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:
>>
>>> I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
>>> used an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
>>> seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that
>>> in fact we have only one American on board. If they win, it should be
>>> called the American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat,
>>> built, designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there
>>> with sponsorship from the state.
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

Considering the number of lawsuits invoked over the years for each
America's cup the America's Cup Deed of Gift is short, sweet and to the
point: http://www.a3.org/ac2000_DeedofGift.html

DEED OF GIFT FOR THE AMERICA'S CUP

This Deed of Gift, made the twenty-fourth day of October, one thousand
eight hundred and eighty-seven, between George L. Schuyler as the sole
surviving owner of the Cup won by the yacht AMERICA at Cowes, England, on
the twenty-second day of August, one thousand eight hundred and fifty-one,
of the first part, and the New York Yacht Club, of the second part, as
amended by an order of the Supreme Court of the State of New York dated
December 17, 1956 and April 5, 1985.

WITNESSETH

That the said party of the first part, for and in consideration of the
premises and of the performance of the conditions and agreements
hereinafter set forth by the party of the second part, has granted,
bargained, sold, assigned, transferred and set over, and by these present
does grant, bargain, sell, assign, transfer, and set over, unto said party
of the second part, its successors and assigns, the Cup won by the schooner
yacht AMERICA, at Cowes, England, upon the twenty-second day of August,
1851. To have and to hold the same to the said party of the second part,
its successors and assigns, IN TRUST, NEVERTHELESS, for the following uses
and purposes:

This Cup is donated upon the conditions that it shall be preserved as a
perpetual Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries.

Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or
licensed by the legislature, admiralty, or other executive department,
having for its annual regatta on ocean water course on the sea, or on an
arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the
right of sailing a match for this Cup, with a yacht or vessel propelled by
sails only and constructed in the country to which the Challenging Club
belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the
Club holding the Cup.

The competing yachts or vessels, if of one mast, shall be not less than
forty-four feet nor more than ninety feet on the load water-line; if of
more than one mast they shall be not less than eighty feet nor more than
one hundred and fifteen feet on the load water-line.

The Challenging Club shall give ten months' notice, in writing, naming the
days for the proposed races; but no race shall be sailed in the days
intervening between November 1st and May 1st if the races are to conducted
in the Northern Hemisphere; and no race shall be sailed in the days
intervening between May 1st and November 1st if the races are to be
conducted in the Southern Hemisphere. Accompanying the ten months' notice
of challenge there must be sent the name of the owner and a certificate of
the name, rig and following dimensions of the challenging vessel, namely,
length on load water-line; beam at load water-line and extreme beam; and
draught of water; which dimensions shall not be exceeded; and a
custom-house registry of the vessel must also be sent as soon as possible.
Center-board or sliding keel vessels shall always be allowed to compete in
any race for this Cup, and no restriction nor limitation whatever shall be
placed upon the use of such center-board or sliding keel, nor shall the
center-board or sliding keel be considered a part of the vessel for any
purposes of measurement.

The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may, by
mutual consent, make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates,
courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all
other conditions of the match, in which case also the ten months' notice
may be waived.

In case the parties cannot mutually agree upon the terms of a match, then
three races shall be sailed, and the winner of two of such races shall be
entitled to the Cup. All such races shall be on ocean courses, free from
headlands, as follows: The first race, twenty nautical miles to windward
and return; the second race an equilateral triangular race of thirty-nine
nautical miles, the first side of which shall be a beat to windward; the
third race (if necessary) twenty nautical miles to windward and return; and
one week day shall intervene between the conclusion of one race and the
starting of the next race. These ocean courses shall be practicable in all
parts for vessels of twenty-two feet draught of water, and shall be
selected by the Club holding the Cup; and these races shall be sailed
subject to its rules and sailing regulations so far as the same do not
conflict with the provisions of this deed of gift, but without any times
allowances whatever. The challenged Club shall not be required to name its
representative vessel until at a time agreed upon for the start, but the
vessel when named must compete in all the races, and each of such races
must be completed within seven hours.

Should the Club holding the Cup be for any c

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Edd Schillay]

From Wikipedia:

The America's Cup, affectionately known as the "Auld Mug", is a trophy awarded 
to the winner of the America's Cup match races between two sailing yachts. One 
yacht, known as the defender, represents the yacht club that currently holds 
the America's Cup and the second yacht, known as the challenger, represents the 
yacht club that is challenging for the cup. The America's Cup is the oldest 
international sporting trophy.[1]
The trophy was originally awarded in 1851 by the Royal Yacht Squadron for a 
race around the Isle of Wight in England, which was won by the schooner 
America. The trophy was renamed the America's Cup after the yacht and was 
donated to the New York Yacht Club (NYYC) under the terms of the Deed of Gift, 
which made the cup available for perpetual international competition.



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Edd Schillay  wrote:

> Bev,
> 
>   The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and 
> the boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 
> 
>   I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our 
> country, but the boat "America". 
> 
> 
>   
>   All the best,
> 
>   Edd
> 
> 
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY 
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
> 
> On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:
> 
>> I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used 
>> an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to 
>> have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we 
>> have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the 
>> American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, 
>> designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with 
>> sponsorship from the state.
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Edd Schillay]

Bev,

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and 
the boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our 
country, but the boat "America". 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:

> I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used 
> an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to 
> have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we 
> have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the 
> American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed 
> and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship 
> from the state.
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com