Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Bruno - would very much appreciate photos of the sprit and masthead, and Mike, 
great suggestion on the camcleat- best of both worlds.   The many  replies to 
my original post are full of great detail, I will summarize and post to my blog 
when I get a moment.  
I have a sock for my symmetrical, it works well, and have one on order with my 
new A sail.   I think that would be the starting point, rather than a furler.  
Those flying sail furlers are sexy but spendy and I already have plenty of 
lines in the cockpit.  Like you Bruno, short or singlehanded will be the rule.  
I haul out on Sept 26, and hope that my sail gets here in time for one use 
anyway  

> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Bruno Lachance <bruno_lacha...@hotmail.com> 
> wrote:
> Dave,
> 
> 
> On my 33-2 (1987, Offshorespars mast). I added the mast crane from Offshore 
> to add some clearance in front of the furler and to use one dedicated spin 
> haylard. I even remove the port haylard since i don't use it /need it. I have 
> full confidence in my fairly new all rope (Vectran) haylards.
> 
> 
> Knowing i will never have a full crew to race with a symetric spin, I wanted 
> a big asym that would be easy to rig double handed or even singlehanded. I 
> went a bit crazy and ordered a Selden retractable bowsprit (3 feet in front 
> of the bow extended) and a Facnor furler. the asym is 82 m2 runner, almost as 
> big as a symetric and is very easy to manage even in challenging conditions. 
> It is amazing how deep i can keep it, up to 150-160 degrees in a good breeze.
> 
> 
> If i was to do it all over i might choose a sock insteand of the furler. the 
> furler works ok but it is slow to furl. Not ideal when racing on short 
> courses, but our racing is mostly coastal distance racing. And the tack 
> (furler drum) is fixed, i sometimes try to let go the haylard a bit (10-12 
> inches) to get a fuller sail, but i'm sure it would be better to play with 
> the tack line if i had one...
> 
> 
> To have more clearance  at the top of the mast, the crane was a big plus, it 
> would be too tight between the spin furler head and the jib furler otherwise.
> 
> 
> I added a spinlock XAS cluth on the mast and i love it. I also have a XTS at 
> the mast for the main.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you would like some pictures of my setup.
> 
> 
> Bruno Lachance
> 
> Bécassine, 33-2
> 
> New-Richmond,Qc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> De : CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> de la part de Hoyt, Mike via 
> CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Envoyé : 12 septembre 2016 12:34
> À : cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc : Hoyt, Mike
> Objet : Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
>  
> Dave
> 
> The Frers 33 is remarkably similar to C 33-2.  It also has three mast 
> halyards forward.  The outer ones are most certainly port and stbd spin 
> halyards.  One reason NOT to have one of the spin halyards at mast and other 
> in cockpit is that a spin will always want to be hoisted on whichever halyard 
> is on the leeward is at hoist time.
> 
> Persistence has an oversized anchor roller that protruded a bit in front of 
> bow.  We have a bail on this that we put a side opening block on.  We simply 
> run the spin downhaul thru this for a tack line.  Any gybes are best done 
> forward of forestay. Since spin halyards are expected to have loads to the 
> sides that should not be any different with asym than with symmetric spin.  
> Note that we have had no issues with this setup using the sock or without the 
> sock on our asym.  
> 
> For your mast comments why not a cleat at the mast.  Something maybe like a J 
> Boat where it has a cam cleat at mast and is also run back to coachroof.  
> Alternatively a horn cleat at mast (likely is one there already for some 
> other purpose) and when short handed cleat it there.  The rest of the halyard 
> could still be run back to cockpit with the excess either bundled at mast or 
> in cockpit at your discretion.
> 
> Have fun with the asym.
> 
> Mike
> Persistence
> Frers 33
> Halifax, NS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> Syerdave--- via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:40 AM
> To: C Stus List
> Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
> 
> Great information all, and thank you.In response to a few comments,
> Had originally thought of a Crane also at the masthead, and somehow 
> incorporating a bail into the anchor roller, but as noted, with three 
> halyards and a few options at the bow, it is probably not necessary.  I guess 
> the crane etc went away for windage reasons?Something at

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I think ASPLTD sells what is called a halyard parking bracket which is a 
commercial version of a 'reverse' cleat at the mast for the spin halyard.
 
Basically it is a cam cleat that mounts on a bracket such that the opening 
(top?) of the cleat faces the mast. That way, when the kite is hoisted, the 
mast person is
pulling the halyard thru the cleat away from the mast and when it is made, the 
cleat holds the halyard.
 
This allows the pit to do other things while the kite is hoisted and then take 
up the spin halyard slack later which, because of how the bracket is mounted, 
pulls the halyard out of the bracket so it is ready to douse.

Of course, if left in the bracket for the douse, things go very "awry".

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb
Oriental, NC.
 
cenel...@aol.com

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker <rbfrer...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2016 12:10 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?



Maybe it's standard and I haven't noticed enough boats, but I saw a couple 
where the cam cleat at the mast was offset slightly so that a pull on the 
halyard from the cockpit would uncleat it without going to the mast.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL





  
 
 
  
 From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
 Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:34 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
  
 

Dave

The Frers 33 is remarkably similar to C 33-2.  It also has three mast 
halyards forward.  The outer ones are most certainly port and stbd spin 
halyards.  One reason NOT to have one of the spin halyards at mast and other in 
cockpit is that a spin will always want to be hoisted on whichever halyard is 
on the leeward is at hoist time.

Persistence has an oversized anchor roller that protruded a bit in front of 
bow.  We have a bail on this that we put a side opening block on.  We simply 
run the spin downhaul thru this for a tack line.  Any gybes are best done 
forward of forestay. Since spin halyards are expected to have loads to the 
sides that should not be any different with asym than with symmetric spin.  
Note that we have had no issues with this setup using the sock or without the 
sock on our asym.  

For your mast comments why not a cleat at the mast.  Something maybe like a J 
Boat where it has a cam cleat at mast and is also run back to coachroof.  
Alternatively a horn cleat at mast (likely is one there already for some other 
purpose) and when short handed cleat it there.  The rest of the halyard could 
still be run back to cockpit with the excess either bundled at mast or in 
cockpit at your discretion.



 
 
  

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Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

I've seen that on several boats and added it to my 35/3.  The only caveat
is that the pit and mast need to know who has the halyard cleated.
Otherwise douse does not happen.

Joel

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Maybe it's standard and I haven't noticed enough boats, but I saw a
> couple where the cam cleat at the mast was offset slightly so that a pull
> on the halyard from the cockpit would uncleat it without going to the mast.
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C 30-1
> STL
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *To:* "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2016 7:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
>
> Dave
>
> The Frers 33 is remarkably similar to C 33-2.  It also has three mast
> halyards forward.  The outer ones are most certainly port and stbd spin
> halyards.  One reason NOT to have one of the spin halyards at mast and
> other in cockpit is that a spin will always want to be hoisted on whichever
> halyard is on the leeward is at hoist time.
>
> Persistence has an oversized anchor roller that protruded a bit in front
> of bow.  We have a bail on this that we put a side opening block on.  We
> simply run the spin downhaul thru this for a tack line.  Any gybes are best
> done forward of forestay. Since spin halyards are expected to have loads to
> the sides that should not be any different with asym than with symmetric
> spin.  Note that we have had no issues with this setup using the sock or
> without the sock on our asym.
>
> For your mast comments why not a cleat at the mast.  Something maybe like
> a J Boat where it has a cam cleat at mast and is also run back to
> coachroof.  Alternatively a horn cleat at mast (likely is one there already
> for some other purpose) and when short handed cleat it there.  The rest of
> the halyard could still be run back to cockpit with the excess either
> bundled at mast or in cockpit at your discretion.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Maybe it's standard and I haven't noticed enough boats, but I saw a couple 
where the cam cleat at the mast was offset slightly so that a pull on the 
halyard from the cockpit would uncleat it without going to the mast.RonWild 
CheriC 30-1STL


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
 Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:34 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
   
Dave

The Frers 33 is remarkably similar to C 33-2.  It also has three mast 
halyards forward.  The outer ones are most certainly port and stbd spin 
halyards.  One reason NOT to have one of the spin halyards at mast and other in 
cockpit is that a spin will always want to be hoisted on whichever halyard is 
on the leeward is at hoist time.

Persistence has an oversized anchor roller that protruded a bit in front of 
bow.  We have a bail on this that we put a side opening block on.  We simply 
run the spin downhaul thru this for a tack line.  Any gybes are best done 
forward of forestay. Since spin halyards are expected to have loads to the 
sides that should not be any different with asym than with symmetric spin.  
Note that we have had no issues with this setup using the sock or without the 
sock on our asym.  

For your mast comments why not a cleat at the mast.  Something maybe like a J 
Boat where it has a cam cleat at mast and is also run back to coachroof.  
Alternatively a horn cleat at mast (likely is one there already for some other 
purpose) and when short handed cleat it there.  The rest of the halyard could 
still be run back to cockpit with the excess either bundled at mast or in 
cockpit at your discretion.


   ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Dave,


On my 33-2 (1987, Offshorespars mast). I added the mast crane from Offshore to 
add some clearance in front of the furler and to use one dedicated spin 
haylard. I even remove the port haylard since i don't use it /need it. I have 
full confidence in my fairly new all rope (Vectran) haylards.


Knowing i will never have a full crew to race with a symetric spin, I wanted a 
big asym that would be easy to rig double handed or even singlehanded. I went a 
bit crazy and ordered a Selden retractable bowsprit (3 feet in front of the bow 
extended) and a Facnor furler. the asym is 82 m2 runner, almost as big as a 
symetric and is very easy to manage even in challenging conditions. It is 
amazing how deep i can keep it, up to 150-160 degrees in a good breeze.


If i was to do it all over i might choose a sock insteand of the furler. the 
furler works ok but it is slow to furl. Not ideal when racing on short courses, 
but our racing is mostly coastal distance racing. And the tack (furler drum) is 
fixed, i sometimes try to let go the haylard a bit (10-12 inches) to get a 
fuller sail, but i'm sure it would be better to play with the tack line if i 
had one...


To have more clearance  at the top of the mast, the crane was a big plus, it 
would be too tight between the spin furler head and the jib furler otherwise.


I added a spinlock XAS cluth on the mast and i love it. I also have a XTS at 
the mast for the main.


Let me know if you would like some pictures of my setup.


Bruno Lachance

Bécassine, 33-2

New-Richmond,Qc.






De : CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> de la part de Hoyt, Mike via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2016 12:34
À : cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc : Hoyt, Mike
Objet : Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

Dave

The Frers 33 is remarkably similar to C 33-2.  It also has three mast 
halyards forward.  The outer ones are most certainly port and stbd spin 
halyards.  One reason NOT to have one of the spin halyards at mast and other in 
cockpit is that a spin will always want to be hoisted on whichever halyard is 
on the leeward is at hoist time.

Persistence has an oversized anchor roller that protruded a bit in front of 
bow.  We have a bail on this that we put a side opening block on.  We simply 
run the spin downhaul thru this for a tack line.  Any gybes are best done 
forward of forestay. Since spin halyards are expected to have loads to the 
sides that should not be any different with asym than with symmetric spin.  
Note that we have had no issues with this setup using the sock or without the 
sock on our asym.

For your mast comments why not a cleat at the mast.  Something maybe like a J 
Boat where it has a cam cleat at mast and is also run back to coachroof.  
Alternatively a horn cleat at mast (likely is one there already for some other 
purpose) and when short handed cleat it there.  The rest of the halyard could 
still be run back to cockpit with the excess either bundled at mast or in 
cockpit at your discretion.

Have fun with the asym.

Mike
Persistence
Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Syerdave--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:40 AM
To: C Stus List
Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

Great information all, and thank you.In response to a few comments,
Had originally thought of a Crane also at the masthead, and somehow 
incorporating a bail into the anchor roller, but as noted, with three halyards 
and a few options at the bow, it is probably not necessary.  I guess the crane 
etc went away for windage reasons?Something at the anchor roller casting 
could be added later maybe.
 I will add a a belaying point at the mast for one of the wing halyards.  No 
brainer, now that someone else suggested it!
On chafe, wraps.  I still have the original wire halyards and have noted 
abrasion from same at the masthead.  Will replace with rope over the winter, 
and per the article referred, mark to ensure a full hoist.
Outside/inside? Outside absolutely, and I should have stated that in my post.  
I can't imagine trying to tack that sail inside on a 33-2.
Last, single or short handed?single, with Otto, sibling of George, doing 
his thing at the helm.
Thanks again, all set.

Dave.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our mem

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Dave

The Frers 33 is remarkably similar to C 33-2.  It also has three mast 
halyards forward.  The outer ones are most certainly port and stbd spin 
halyards.  One reason NOT to have one of the spin halyards at mast and other in 
cockpit is that a spin will always want to be hoisted on whichever halyard is 
on the leeward is at hoist time.

Persistence has an oversized anchor roller that protruded a bit in front of 
bow.  We have a bail on this that we put a side opening block on.  We simply 
run the spin downhaul thru this for a tack line.  Any gybes are best done 
forward of forestay. Since spin halyards are expected to have loads to the 
sides that should not be any different with asym than with symmetric spin.  
Note that we have had no issues with this setup using the sock or without the 
sock on our asym.  

For your mast comments why not a cleat at the mast.  Something maybe like a J 
Boat where it has a cam cleat at mast and is also run back to coachroof.  
Alternatively a horn cleat at mast (likely is one there already for some other 
purpose) and when short handed cleat it there.  The rest of the halyard could 
still be run back to cockpit with the excess either bundled at mast or in 
cockpit at your discretion.

Have fun with the asym.

Mike
Persistence
Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Syerdave--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:40 AM
To: C Stus List
Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

Great information all, and thank you.In response to a few comments,
Had originally thought of a Crane also at the masthead, and somehow 
incorporating a bail into the anchor roller, but as noted, with three halyards 
and a few options at the bow, it is probably not necessary.  I guess the crane 
etc went away for windage reasons?Something at the anchor roller casting 
could be added later maybe.
 I will add a a belaying point at the mast for one of the wing halyards.  No 
brainer, now that someone else suggested it!   
On chafe, wraps.  I still have the original wire halyards and have noted 
abrasion from same at the masthead.  Will replace with rope over the winter, 
and per the article referred, mark to ensure a full hoist.   
Outside/inside? Outside absolutely, and I should have stated that in my post.  
I can't imagine trying to tack that sail inside on a 33-2. 
Last, single or short handed?single, with Otto, sibling of George, doing 
his thing at the helm.   
Thanks again, all set.

Dave.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Syerdave--- via CnC-List]

Great information all, and thank you.In response to a few comments,
Had originally thought of a Crane also at the masthead, and somehow 
incorporating a bail into the anchor roller, but as noted, with three halyards 
and a few options at the bow, it is probably not necessary.  I guess the crane 
etc went away for windage reasons?Something at the anchor roller casting 
could be added later maybe.
 I will add a a belaying point at the mast for one of the wing halyards.  No 
brainer, now that someone else suggested it!   
On chafe, wraps.  I still have the original wire halyards and have noted 
abrasion from same at the masthead.  Will replace with rope over the winter, 
and per the article referred, mark to ensure a full hoist.   
Outside/inside? Outside absolutely, and I should have stated that in my post.  
I can't imagine trying to tack that sail inside on a 33-2. 
Last, single or short handed?single, with Otto, sibling of George, doing 
his thing at the helm.   
Thanks again, all set.

Dave.
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[David Platt via CnC-List]

If you are planning to gybe around the front of the boat the rule of 
thumb for sheet length is twice the boat length.  You can probably knock 
25% off that length with a single line sheet (both ends connected to the 
tack).  I pull the snuffer down to gybe mine so I get away with a much 
shorter sheet (although, to be fair, it was much longer until I caught 
it in the prop.)



Good Luck

david

C Wanderer

On 2016-09-11 07:53 AM, Syerdave--- via CnC-List wrote:

Great, thanks gentlemen - very helpful.

So, I would assume the tack downhaul block aft of the furler is 
attached to the two u-bolts on deck where, on Windstar, there are 
currently two snap shackles permanently mounted.  (Used for halyards, 
pre-Furler?). Basically at the top  of the chain plate.   The tack 
downhaul would, in practice fly between the Furler drum and pulpit, 
aft of the pulpit, harmlessly massaging the Furler drum.  I have one 
of those web-strap deals  that can slide up and down the furled Jenny. 
 Used on my spin halyard.


I have the foredeck padeye, fair leads and cam cleat on stbd side of 
cabin top.   Stock I believe.


The halyard.I can't think of any reason that I need three headsail 
halyards lead aft.  Can you guys think of any reason NOT to have one 
of the wing halyards permanently belayed at the mast, and the other 
run back to the cockpit?   This would allow for crewed/non crewed 
spinnaking, less cabin-top clutter.  (Anyone tamed that?)


Last question - by any chance, did you note the length/dia of the 
sheets?  The sail will probably be bagged for the winter, but at least 
I can get prepared!   (A-Spin is .75oz, 74.07 m sq., FYI.  Custom, not 
stock, so fitted to I 13.56m, j 3.98m.)


Thanks again!

Dave.


: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 21:57:22 -0400
From: Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com 
<mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>>

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
Message-ID: <2ffb2a24-86a2-4fe3-9eb0-25b2e0836...@gmail.com 
<mailto:2ffb2a24-86a2-4fe3-9eb0-25b2e0836...@gmail.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

I take my tack to a block just aft of the furler. I also have a wide 
web that wraps around the furled headsail and keeps the tack near 
centerline. Ease the tack as you get further downwind.
Halyard definitely at the mast. Yes, use the outer halyards. On a 
three-halyard masthead only the "wings" can be used for the spinnaker, 
but all should work for the white sails.

Cheers
Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett 
Newport, RI 
USA02840 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260 <tel:+401%20965-5260>




Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 11:10:55 -0300
From: <amira...@bellaliant.net <mailto:amira...@bellaliant.net>>
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
Message-ID: <7E6566F8DD764B869CF73E0B27AC5263@T60>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have the same tack setup on my 33ii as described by Andrew Burton; a 
block just aft of the furler led to a cam cleat on the stbd side of 
the cockpit.
My halyards are all led aft to the cabin top, PITA when raising the 
gennaner but I have a cleat on the side of the mast which I use to 
temporarily tie off the halyard. Make sure you drop the sock on the 
same side you raised it on or you may have an issue with a halyard wrap.


Mike Amirault
C  Lovely Cruise
SMSC
On Sep 9, 2016, at 18:06, Dave via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Just ordered my cruising chute from Rolly Tasker in Thailand and am 
looking forward to trying it out.. Probably next season.   Have flown 
my symmetrical a few times singlehanded.
Considering how to do this on Windstar and am curious about how 
others have addressed a few things:
-Halyard at cockpit.   In this case it might make sense to have 
halyard at mast - this way halyard, and spin-sock can be dealt with 
together.
-Halyard at masthead.  On the 33-2 there are three halyards 
available, all are in-masthead sheaves, parallel to each other .   I 
currently use the centre one for the Genoa, and any other halyard 
chafes its neighbour on one tack.
-Tack downhaul.   There isn't one forward of the furler drum.  The 
downhaul itself can be rigged using the spin-pole downhaul line, fair 
leads and cleats, but the fixed, forward tack is a problem to be 
resolved.

Many thanks for any guidance!
Dave - Windstar 33-2





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Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Rick it was common starting in the early '80s or so for race boats to have 
three halyard mastheads with any useable for a job and the outer ones for 
spinnakers, too. They did away with cranes. I think it's the same way now. 
Peregrine has four halyards, but no cranes. 

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
PO Box 632
Newport, RI 
USA 02840

+401 965 5260


> On Sep 11, 2016, at 10:17, Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Dave,
>  
> I would think that, with 3 halyards, the normal arrangement would be 1 for 
> the spin and two genoa halyards. The spin halyard could be left at the mast, 
> since it won’t need to have tension adjusted on a winch. The genoa halyards 
> would probably best be led to the cockpit.
>  
> You have not mentioned if your arrangement has a crane at the top of the 
> mast. Most of the C I’ve seen over the years (even my friends’ LF38) has a 
> crane. Would it not be best to put a block on the port side of the crane, 
> forward of the forestay, and run the spin halyard through that. Personally 
> I’d use the center halyard for the spin.
>  
> The two snap shackles under the furler drum were almost undoubtedly intended 
> for the genoa tack points (before the furler was installed). That is the way 
> my 38 was set up.
>  
> For running the A sail on my 38 I used to shackle a block to the anchor 
> roller, forward of the pulpit. That let the line go up outside of the pulpit, 
> though it still made contact with the upper bar. I can’t imagine what a PITA 
> it would be to try to gybe the A sail inside the headstay and between it and 
> the baby stay.
>  
> When I upgraded the ground tackle for cruising and added a double bow roller 
> arrangement, I had a strap welded into the new assemble as a purpose built 
> attachment for the block that routes the tack line. That puts the line about 
> a foot to 18” forward of the bow pulpit.
>  
> Your original post mentioned running the spin shorthanded, but the 
> description tends toward single handed. I’ve never managed that – unless you 
> count using George (the autopilot) to steer the boat while I was on the 
> foredeck raising the spin and the sock. It is an advantage to have both these 
> lines near the mast if there are only 2 of you aboard (or 1 plus George).
>  
> You will want your spin sheets to be about twice the length of the boat – 
> maybe about 10 feet more than that – if you plan to do outside gybes.
>  
>  
> Rick Brass
> Imzadi  C 38 mk 2
> la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1
> Washington, NC
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> Syerdave--- via CnC-List
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 7:53 AM
> To: C Stus List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: syerd...@gmail.com; amira...@bellaliant.net
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
>  
> Great, thanks gentlemen - very helpful.  
> 
> 
> So, I would assume the tack downhaul block aft of the furler is attached to 
> the two u-bolts on deck where, on Windstar, there are currently two snap 
> shackles permanently mounted.  (Used for halyards, pre-Furler?). Basically at 
> the top  of the chain plate.   The tack downhaul would, in practice fly 
> between the Furler drum and pulpit, aft of the pulpit, harmlessly massaging 
> the Furler drum.  I have one of those web-strap deals  that can slide up and 
> down the furled Jenny.  Used on my spin halyard.
> 
> 
> I have the foredeck padeye, fair leads and cam cleat on stbd side of cabin 
> top.   Stock I believe.   
> 
> 
> The halyard.I can't think of any reason that I need three headsail 
> halyards lead aft.  Can you guys think of any reason NOT to have one of the 
> wing halyards permanently belayed at the mast, and the other run back to the 
> cockpit?   This would allow for crewed/non crewed spinnaking, less cabin-top 
> clutter.  (Anyone tamed that?)
> 
> 
> Last question - by any chance, did you note the length/dia of the sheets?  
> The sail will probably be bagged for the winter, but at least I can get 
> prepared!   (A-Spin is .75oz, 74.07 m sq., FYI.  Custom, not stock, so fitted 
> to I 13.56m, j 3.98m.)
> 
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> Dave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> : Fri, 9 Sep 2016 21:57:22 -0400
> From: Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
> Message-ID: <2ffb2a24-86a2-4fe3-9eb0-25b2e0836...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
> 
> I take my tack to a block just aft of the furler. I also have a wide web that 
> wraps around the furled headsail and keeps the tack near centerline. Ease the 
> tack as

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Dave,

 

I would think that, with 3 halyards, the normal arrangement would be 1 for the 
spin and two genoa halyards. The spin halyard could be left at the mast, since 
it won’t need to have tension adjusted on a winch. The genoa halyards would 
probably best be led to the cockpit.

 

You have not mentioned if your arrangement has a crane at the top of the mast. 
Most of the C I’ve seen over the years (even my friends’ LF38) has a crane. 
Would it not be best to put a block on the port side of the crane, forward of 
the forestay, and run the spin halyard through that. Personally I’d use the 
center halyard for the spin.

 

The two snap shackles under the furler drum were almost undoubtedly intended 
for the genoa tack points (before the furler was installed). That is the way my 
38 was set up.

 

For running the A sail on my 38 I used to shackle a block to the anchor roller, 
forward of the pulpit. That let the line go up outside of the pulpit, though it 
still made contact with the upper bar. I can’t imagine what a PITA it would be 
to try to gybe the A sail inside the headstay and between it and the baby stay.

 

When I upgraded the ground tackle for cruising and added a double bow roller 
arrangement, I had a strap welded into the new assemble as a purpose built 
attachment for the block that routes the tack line. That puts the line about a 
foot to 18” forward of the bow pulpit.

 

Your original post mentioned running the spin shorthanded, but the description 
tends toward single handed. I’ve never managed that – unless you count using 
George (the autopilot) to steer the boat while I was on the foredeck raising 
the spin and the sock. It is an advantage to have both these lines near the 
mast if there are only 2 of you aboard (or 1 plus George).

 

You will want your spin sheets to be about twice the length of the boat – maybe 
about 10 feet more than that – if you plan to do outside gybes.

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Syerdave--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 7:53 AM
To: C Stus List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: syerd...@gmail.com; amira...@bellaliant.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

 

Great, thanks gentlemen - very helpful.  





So, I would assume the tack downhaul block aft of the furler is attached to the 
two u-bolts on deck where, on Windstar, there are currently two snap shackles 
permanently mounted.  (Used for halyards, pre-Furler?). Basically at the top  
of the chain plate.   The tack downhaul would, in practice fly between the 
Furler drum and pulpit, aft of the pulpit, harmlessly massaging the Furler 
drum.  I have one of those web-strap deals  that can slide up and down the 
furled Jenny.  Used on my spin halyard.





I have the foredeck padeye, fair leads and cam cleat on stbd side of cabin top. 
  Stock I believe.   





The halyard.I can't think of any reason that I need three headsail halyards 
lead aft.  Can you guys think of any reason NOT to have one of the wing 
halyards permanently belayed at the mast, and the other run back to the 
cockpit?   This would allow for crewed/non crewed spinnaking, less cabin-top 
clutter.  (Anyone tamed that?)





Last question - by any chance, did you note the length/dia of the sheets?  The 
sail will probably be bagged for the winter, but at least I can get prepared!   
(A-Spin is .75oz, 74.07 m sq., FYI.  Custom, not stock, so fitted to I 13.56m, 
j 3.98m.)





Thanks again!





Dave.









: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 21:57:22 -0400
From: Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com 
<mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com> >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
Message-ID: <2ffb2a24-86a2-4fe3-9eb0-25b2e0836...@gmail.com 
<mailto:2ffb2a24-86a2-4fe3-9eb0-25b2e0836...@gmail.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

I take my tack to a block just aft of the furler. I also have a wide web that 
wraps around the furled headsail and keeps the tack near centerline. Ease the 
tack as you get further downwind.
Halyard definitely at the mast. Yes, use the outer halyards. On a three-halyard 
masthead only the "wings" can be used for the spinnaker, but all should work 
for the white sails.
Cheers
Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett  
Newport, RI  
USA  02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260 <tel:+401%20965-5260> 




 

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 11:10:55 -0300
From: <amira...@bellaliant.net <mailto:amira...@bellaliant.net> >
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
Message-ID: <7E6566F8DD764B869CF73E0B27AC5263@T60>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have t

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Syerdave--- via CnC-List]

Great, thanks gentlemen - very helpful.  

So, I would assume the tack downhaul block aft of the furler is attached to the 
two u-bolts on deck where, on Windstar, there are currently two snap shackles 
permanently mounted.  (Used for halyards, pre-Furler?). Basically at the top  
of the chain plate.   The tack downhaul would, in practice fly between the 
Furler drum and pulpit, aft of the pulpit, harmlessly massaging the Furler 
drum.  I have one of those web-strap deals  that can slide up and down the 
furled Jenny.  Used on my spin halyard.

I have the foredeck padeye, fair leads and cam cleat on stbd side of cabin top. 
  Stock I believe.   

The halyard.I can't think of any reason that I need three headsail halyards 
lead aft.  Can you guys think of any reason NOT to have one of the wing 
halyards permanently belayed at the mast, and the other run back to the 
cockpit?   This would allow for crewed/non crewed spinnaking, less cabin-top 
clutter.  (Anyone tamed that?)

Last question - by any chance, did you note the length/dia of the sheets?  The 
sail will probably be bagged for the winter, but at least I can get prepared!   
(A-Spin is .75oz, 74.07 m sq., FYI.  Custom, not stock, so fitted to I 13.56m, 
j 3.98m.)

Thanks again!

Dave.


: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 21:57:22 -0400
From: Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
Message-ID: <2ffb2a24-86a2-4fe3-9eb0-25b2e0836...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

I take my tack to a block just aft of the furler. I also have a wide web that 
wraps around the furled headsail and keeps the tack near centerline. Ease the 
tack as you get further downwind.
Halyard definitely at the mast. Yes, use the outer halyards. On a three-halyard 
masthead only the "wings" can be used for the spinnaker, but all should work 
for the white sails.
Cheers
Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 11:10:55 -0300
From: <amira...@bellaliant.net>
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?
Message-ID: <7E6566F8DD764B869CF73E0B27AC5263@T60>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have the same tack setup on my 33ii as described by Andrew Burton; a block 
just aft of the furler led to a cam cleat on the stbd side of the cockpit.
My halyards are all led aft to the cabin top, PITA when raising the gennaner 
but I have a cleat on the side of the mast which I use to temporarily tie off 
the halyard. Make sure you drop the sock on the same side you raised it on or 
you may have an issue with a halyard wrap.

Mike Amirault
C  Lovely Cruise
SMSC
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 18:06, Dave via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> Just ordered my cruising chute from Rolly Tasker in Thailand and am looking 
> forward to trying it out.. Probably next season.   Have flown my symmetrical 
> a few times singlehanded.
> Considering how to do this on Windstar and am curious about how others have 
> addressed a few things:
> -Halyard at cockpit.   In this case it might make sense to have halyard at 
> mast - this way halyard, and spin-sock can be dealt with together.
> -Halyard at masthead.  On the 33-2 there are three halyards available, all 
> are in-masthead sheaves, parallel to each other .   I currently use the 
> centre one for the Genoa, and any other halyard chafes its neighbour on one 
> tack.   
> -Tack downhaul.   There isn't one forward of the furler drum.  The downhaul 
> itself can be rigged using the spin-pole downhaul line, fair leads and 
> cleats, but the fixed, forward tack is a problem to be resolved.   
> Many thanks for any guidance!
> Dave - Windstar 33-2


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Indigo via CnC-List]

My 35Iii came with a large shackle that goes through a hole drilled in the 
aluminum bow fitting.  I place a snatch block on the shackle and use that for 
the tackline - places the tack forward of the headstay so I have to do outside 
gybes - not a big enough slot for inside gybes.  

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Sep 9, 2016, at 18:06, Dave via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Just ordered my cruising chute from Rolly Tasker in Thailand and am looking 
> forward to trying it out.. Probably next season.   Have flown my symmetrical 
> a few times singlehanded.
> Considering how to do this on Windstar and am curious about how others have 
> addressed a few things:
> -Halyard at cockpit.   In this case it might make sense to have halyard at 
> mast - this way halyard, and spin-sock can be dealt with together.
> -Halyard at masthead.  On the 33-2 there are three halyards available, all 
> are in-masthead sheaves, parallel to each other .   I currently use the 
> centre one for the Genoa, and any other halyard chafes its neighbour on one 
> tack.   
> -Tack downhaul.   There isn't one forward of the furler drum.  The downhaul 
> itself can be rigged using the spin-pole downhaul line, fair leads and 
> cleats, but the fixed, forward tack is a problem to be resolved.   
> Many thanks for any guidance!
> Dave - Windstar 33-2
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

> -Halyard at masthead.  On the 33-2 there are three halyards available, all 
> are in-masthead sheaves, parallel to each other .   I currently use the 
> centre one for the Genoa, and any other halyard chafes its neighbour on one 
> tack.    
> -Tack downhaul.   There isn't one forward of the furler drum.  The downhaul 
> itself can be rigged using the spin-pole downhaul line, fair leads and 
> cleats, but the fixed, forward tack is a problem to be resolved.    
> Many thanks for any guidance! 
> Dave - Windstar 33-2 

If the spinnaker halyard horizontal angle to the head ends up going 
significantly sideways
there is a risk it may not run cleanly. You could try a hoist, run a bit hot 
then take a picture
of it to see if it is chafing. In addition to rubbing along the mast head the 
halyard may also
rub on the edge of the sheave.

If chaffing looks to be a problem:

http://www.murrayyachtsales.com/5-tips-to-reduce-spinnaker-halyard-chafing/

Some boats that are rated with fractional hoist spinnakers still use a sheave 
at the mast head
and the spinnaker fairlead at the fractional height. Note that with a full 
hoist genoa and a
fractional spinnaker hoist ( or likely using your existing halyards ) you 
cannot do an outside
gybe. If your tackpoint is in front of the forestay you cannot do an inside 
gybe easily.

On the C 30-1 there is a bowplate bolted to the bow chain plate with two 
bolts. I made
up a SS fixture that projects a ring a few inches forward and bolts to the 
existing bow parts
with the two ( upgraded in size ) bolts. It has worked well for years.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

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Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[mike amirault via CnC-List]

I have the same tack setup on my 33ii as described by Andrew Burton; a block 
just aft of the furler led to a cam cleat on the stbd side of the cockpit.
My halyards are all led aft to the cabin top, PITA when raising the gennaner 
but I have a cleat on the side of the mast which I use to temporarily tie off 
the halyard. Make sure you drop the sock on the same side you raised it on or 
you may have an issue with a halyard wrap.

Mike Amirault
C  Lovely Cruise
SMSC


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2?

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I take my tack to a block just aft of the furler. I also have a wide web that 
wraps around the furled headsail and keeps the tack near centerline. Ease the 
tack as you get further downwind.
Halyard definitely at the mast. Yes, use the outer halyards. On a three-halyard 
masthead only the "wings" can be used for the spinnaker, but all should work 
for the white sails.
Cheers
Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Sep 9, 2016, at 18:06, Dave via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Just ordered my cruising chute from Rolly Tasker in Thailand and am looking 
> forward to trying it out.. Probably next season.   Have flown my symmetrical 
> a few times singlehanded.
> Considering how to do this on Windstar and am curious about how others have 
> addressed a few things:
> -Halyard at cockpit.   In this case it might make sense to have halyard at 
> mast - this way halyard, and spin-sock can be dealt with together.
> -Halyard at masthead.  On the 33-2 there are three halyards available, all 
> are in-masthead sheaves, parallel to each other .   I currently use the 
> centre one for the Genoa, and any other halyard chafes its neighbour on one 
> tack.   
> -Tack downhaul.   There isn't one forward of the furler drum.  The downhaul 
> itself can be rigged using the spin-pole downhaul line, fair leads and 
> cleats, but the fixed, forward tack is a problem to be resolved.   
> Many thanks for any guidance!
> Dave - Windstar 33-2
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!