Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
I spoke to PYI about the JEFA washers with bearings. Here is what I learned: Bushings are about .4 inches tall. Each is custom made to the diameter of the shaft and retaining nut. Delivery is about 3 weeks. Cost is about $150. If the bottom of the retaining nut is not smooth and polished, add a delrin ring on top of the washer. I may just try two 1/8 pieces of delrin this fall. Joel On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I think Delrin, also called Acetal, is the material of choice for the bushings. http://www.aetnaplastics.com/products/d/Acetal I had a machine shop make up a selection of thicknesses from tube stock at a reasonable price - $80 for six pieces. I did take the rudder off, cleaned and checked it for straightness. I also cleaned out the rudder tube with a mild solvent and soap and water. I checked the diameters on the shaft and tube. Since I do not know what there were to start with it would be hard to say if there was any wear, but both are round and the same size top to bottom. From that I would guess there was little wear. I have not seen a spec of what the clearance should be between the rudder post and tube. Trying to get an exact measurement of the rudder tube would require a bit fancier stuff that I was using but my guess is that Windburn has about 1/32 clearance. After greasing everything with Lubriplate sliding the rudder back in required a solid push. I replaced both the top and bottom bushings, left a very small clearance. While on the hard I cannot feel any play in any direction. The rudder swings freely, either from the wheel or from the rudder. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
Dave, The 35/3 has a fiberglass tube without bearings. Just top and bottom nylon bushings. If there is play in the tube you can use epoxy to make a bearing. The West website explains how. basically, wax the rudder shaft and pour epoxy down the rudder tube. Joel 35/3 On Thursday, August 21, 2014, Dave Godwin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake, I’m following the discussion about the rudder bearings because it’s on my list of repair items for this coming year. Right now I have the dreaded wear problem in my rudder tube (clunk!) and need to tighten it up. So my question is this: Is your’s stock and tight or did you put a bearing in? My sense is that a bearing will not work with our style rudders but I was interested in the link to the Jefa bearing. A friend of mine here had to redo the rudder bearings in his J40 and the Jefa bearings were the go-to choice. Just curious on yours and other lister’s experiences. Best, Dave Godwin 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/ On Aug 21, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list@cnc-list.com'); wrote: Joel, This is certainly an improvement in removing friction from the steering system. It looks like this item may be over ½” in thickness, which might not work for us. I am pretty happy with mine when it is clean and lubricated. Friction is really seldom an issue for me. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *“Midnight Mistress”* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com');] *On Behalf Of *Joel Aronson via CnC-List *Sent:* Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:11 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list@cnc-list.com'); *Subject:* Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','CnC-List@cnc-list.com'); To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
Rich Knowles will likely chime in on this one. A fellow named Phil Walsh in Halifax (J120 Philharmonic – beautiful boat) I believe has made these in the past. I have heard they work well and is a cheaper way to go …. Mike Persistence 1987 Frers33 (Yeah – I know) From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 5:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
True. Easy to make. Even on a wood lathe. Rich On Aug 22, 2014, at 9:43, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Rich Knowles will likely chime in on this one. A fellow named Phil Walsh in Halifax (J120 Philharmonic – beautiful boat) I believe has made these in the past. I have heard they work well and is a cheaper way to go …. Mike Persistence 1987 Frers33 (Yeah – I know) From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 5:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
Hello We made 2 top bearing washers (1 for my 39TM 1 for my dock mate's 35 Mk1) out of a sheet of .25 Teflon sourced through McMaster Carr. It took all of about 15 minutes to produce the 2 and the 12 x 12 piece allowed each of us to have a spare washer as well. We completely rebuilt boat's steering systems over one weekend as well. Edson supplied the complete rebuild kits at a very reasonable USD 1,200.00 each. Jack Fitzgerald CC 39TM HONEY US12788 Savannah, GA **PLEASE REMOVE honeys...@aol.com honeys...@aol.com FROM YOUR ADDRESS BOOK AND IMMEDIATELY ADD j...@fitzgeraldforwarding.com j...@fitzgeraldforwarding.com* On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Strikes me that it might be easier to have a machine shop make a thin walled sleeve of delrin(?) with a flange that replicates the ring we now have. The sleeve would drop over the top of the post and take up the slack. Am I missing something? Presumably to do the West method the rudder has to be dropped - at least far enough to wax the parts that are contained in the upper and lower tubes. I have not tried to remove my quadrant - but don't relish the thought and suspect that the bolts are likely frozen in the aluminum -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 22, 2014, at 8:07, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Dave, The 35/3 has a fiberglass tube without bearings. Just top and bottom nylon bushings. If there is play in the tube you can use epoxy to make a bearing. The West website explains how. basically, wax the rudder shaft and pour epoxy down the rudder tube. Joel 35/3 On Thursday, August 21, 2014, Dave Godwin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake, I’m following the discussion about the rudder bearings because it’s on my list of repair items for this coming year. Right now I have the dreaded wear problem in my rudder tube (clunk!) and need to tighten it up. So my question is this: Is your’s stock and tight or did you put a bearing in? My sense is that a bearing will not work with our style rudders but I was interested in the link to the Jefa bearing. A friend of mine here had to redo the rudder bearings in his J40 and the Jefa bearings were the go-to choice. Just curious on yours and other lister’s experiences. Best, Dave Godwin 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/ On Aug 21, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Joel, This is certainly an improvement in removing friction from the steering system. It looks like this item may be over ½” in thickness, which might not work for us. I am pretty happy with mine when it is clean and lubricated. Friction is really seldom an issue for me. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *“Midnight Mistress”* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel Aronson via CnC-List *Sent:* Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:11 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
I have just had another thought on how to take out the clunk at least from the top of the rudder post - (I have never taken mine apart so would welcome any feedback as to why this would not work My top rudder assembly is made up of what appears to be 4 components 1) Aluminum base - with 4 bolts - appears to be bolted through the cockpit sole (+/- 6 diam. ) 2) another aluminum fitting that appears to be bolted with 4 bolts to component 1 above (+/- 4 sq) 3) Delrin ring laying on top of component 2 4) large s/s ring threaded on the inside, knurled on the outside with a number of set screws. This ring is screwed on to the top of the threaded rudder post and then held in place with the set screws If my assumptions based on observation only are correct, could I not get a piece of say 1/4 in thick delrin or similar in which a hole is cut that matches the rudder stock exactly and which is the same size as component #2 and with 4 holes drilled to match the holes in component #2 After supporting the rudder in place, take off the s/a ring and aluminum component #2. Place the square of delrin over the rudder post, and replace component#2. Replace the bolts, the delrin ring #3 and s/s ring. The sandwiched delrin layer should then act as a top bearing. Long explanation of what maybe a crazy idea! What am I missing? -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:56, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com wrote: Me too! Are you better off with 2 washers that are 1/8 inch thick rather than 1 1/4 inch thick washer? Joel On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us wrote: Don't know anything about the Jefa washer - to be impressed or not impressed. Looking for something that is easy! (And not too expensive) -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:19, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com wrote: Jonathan, you are correct about having to drop the rudder to wax the rudder post. I was wondering if there was anything to be gained by using the Jefa washer. I'm guessing you aren't impressed by it? Joel On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us wrote: Strikes me that it might be easier to have a machine shop make a thin walled sleeve of delrin(?) with a flange that replicates the ring we now have. The sleeve would drop over the top of the post and take up the slack. Am I missing something? Presumably to do the West method the rudder has to be dropped - at least far enough to wax the parts that are contained in the upper and lower tubes. I have not tried to remove my quadrant - but don't relish the thought and suspect that the bolts are likely frozen in the aluminum -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 22, 2014, at 8:07, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Dave, The 35/3 has a fiberglass tube without bearings. Just top and bottom nylon bushings. If there is play in the tube you can use epoxy to make a bearing. The West website explains how. basically, wax the rudder shaft and pour epoxy down the rudder tube. Joel 35/3 On Thursday, August 21, 2014, Dave Godwin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake, I’m following the discussion about the rudder bearings because it’s on my list of repair items for this coming year. Right now I have the dreaded wear problem in my rudder tube (clunk!) and need to tighten it up. So my question is this: Is your’s stock and tight or did you put a bearing in? My sense is that a bearing will not work with our style rudders but I was interested in the link to the Jefa bearing. A friend of mine here had to redo the rudder bearings in his J40 and the Jefa bearings were the go-to choice. Just curious on yours and other lister’s experiences. Best, Dave Godwin 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit On Aug 21, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Joel, This is certainly an improvement in removing friction from the steering system. It looks like this item may be over ½” in thickness, which might not work for us. I am pretty happy with mine when it is clean and lubricated. Friction is really seldom an issue for me. Jake Jake Brodersen “Midnight Mistress” CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address:
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
I think Delrin, also called Acetal, is the material of choice for the bushings. http://www.aetnaplastics.com/products/d/Acetal I had a machine shop make up a selection of thicknesses from tube stock at a reasonable price - $80 for six pieces. I did take the rudder off, cleaned and checked it for straightness. I also cleaned out the rudder tube with a mild solvent and soap and water. I checked the diameters on the shaft and tube. Since I do not know what there were to start with it would be hard to say if there was any wear, but both are round and the same size top to bottom. From that I would guess there was little wear. I have not seen a spec of what the clearance should be between the rudder post and tube. Trying to get an exact measurement of the rudder tube would require a bit fancier stuff that I was using but my guess is that Windburn has about 1/32 clearance. After greasing everything with Lubriplate sliding the rudder back in required a solid push. I replaced both the top and bottom bushings, left a very small clearance. While on the hard I cannot feel any play in any direction. The rudder swings freely, either from the wheel or from the rudder. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
Joel, This is certainly an improvement in removing friction from the steering system. It looks like this item may be over ½” in thickness, which might not work for us. I am pretty happy with mine when it is clean and lubricated. Friction is really seldom an issue for me. Jake Jake Brodersen “Midnight Mistress” CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Top rudder bushing
Jake, I’m following the discussion about the rudder bearings because it’s on my list of repair items for this coming year. Right now I have the dreaded wear problem in my rudder tube (clunk!) and need to tighten it up. So my question is this: Is your’s stock and tight or did you put a bearing in? My sense is that a bearing will not work with our style rudders but I was interested in the link to the Jefa bearing. A friend of mine here had to redo the rudder bearings in his J40 and the Jefa bearings were the go-to choice. Just curious on yours and other lister’s experiences. Best, Dave Godwin 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit On Aug 21, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Joel, This is certainly an improvement in removing friction from the steering system. It looks like this item may be over ½” in thickness, which might not work for us. I am pretty happy with mine when it is clean and lubricated. Friction is really seldom an issue for me. Jake Jake Brodersen “Midnight Mistress” CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Top rudder bushing There was a recent discussion about making a new delrin bushing/washer. I just saw these. Has anyone tried one? Any reason to spend the extra $$? http://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-rudder/washers.html -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
