Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Two years ago for us.  Courtesy of a line wrapped around the prop.

Cutlass bearing was due for replacement anyway and the shaft was worn a bit 
under that.  New coupler, shaft, cutlass bearing, Dripless Shaft Seal and some 
work on stern tube and strut.

I now watch more carefully for lines ...

Mike
Persistence
Halifax

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of G Collins 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:59 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: G Collins; TOM VINCENT
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes


I had it happen last year, while being committee boat - so anchored in an open 
area, lee shore.  Thankfully our mark boat was a big one and could tow me in.  
New shaft and coupling...

Graham Collins

Secret Plans

C 35-III #11
On 2016-07-01 2:15 PM, TOM VINCENT via CnC-List wrote:
It seems this is the year for the shaft to remove itself from the coupler. I 
race on Wednesday nights on the Bohemia River and 4 weeks ago I had decided to 
go out early and warm up a little. I had to return to the fuel dock to pick up 
one crew member. I was adjacent of the pier and he hopped aboard, I slid the 
gear shift lever down, this puts the trans in forward, and nothing. We were 
slowly moving forward to the rock pile jetty at the end of the fuel dock and I 
start shouting for the crew to raise the main and get our butts away from the 
rocks. The wind was blowing abeam and it was impossible to raise the main, one 
crew member quickly unfurls about 10' of the genoa and we develop enough 
forward motion to provide me steerage. We barely missed ending up on the rocks. 
I had the marina haul the boat and they replaced the coupler and many boat 
dollars later, I am back sailing.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II, C 36'cb
Chesapeake City, MD




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Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Jon Pratt via CnC-List]

Yeah me too.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 8:58 PM, G Collins via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I had it happen last year, while being committee boat - so anchored in an
> open area, lee shore.  Thankfully our mark boat was a big one and could tow
> me in.  New shaft and coupling...
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C 35-III #11
>
> On 2016-07-01 2:15 PM, TOM VINCENT via CnC-List wrote:
>
> It seems this is the year for the shaft to remove itself from the coupler.
> I race on Wednesday nights on the Bohemia River and 4 weeks ago I had
> decided to go out early and warm up a little. I had to return to the fuel
> dock to pick up one crew member. I was adjacent of the pier and he hopped
> aboard, I slid the gear shift lever down, this puts the trans in forward,
> and nothing. We were slowly moving forward to the rock pile jetty at the
> end of the fuel dock and I start shouting for the crew to raise the main
> and get our butts away from the rocks. The wind was blowing abeam and it
> was impossible to raise the main, one crew member quickly unfurls about 10'
> of the genoa and we develop enough forward motion to provide me steerage.
> We barely missed ending up on the rocks. I had the marina haul the boat and
> they replaced the coupler and many boat dollars later, I am back sailing.
>
> Tom Vincent
> Frolic II, C 36'cb
> Chesapeake City, MD
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

It took me about a week to get the coupling and the propeller shaft separated 
on my C this year. 
Seems they either fall off, or they will not come apart at all. 
I spent one entire day where I thought that I had moved it by about 3/8 of an 
inch, only to find that I had been crushing the steel pipe nipple I was using 
as a spacer to force out the shaft. 
I won't bore you with the rest of it, but it was a challenge to find a 
selection of the right diameter sockets with the variation in lengths needed to 
effect the separation, which is why I tried using a pipe nipple. 
Don't waste you time. They are not strong enough. 

Steve Thomas
Port Stanley, ON
  - Original Message - 
  From: TOM VINCENT via CnC-List 
  To: C Forum 
  Cc: TOM VINCENT 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 13:15
  Subject: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes


  It seems this is the year for the shaft to remove itself from the coupler. I 
race on Wednesday nights on the Bohemia River and 4 weeks ago I had decided to 
go out early and warm up a little. I had to return to the fuel dock to pick up 
one crew member. I was adjacent of the pier and he hopped aboard, I slid the 
gear shift lever down, this puts the trans in forward, and nothing. We were 
slowly moving forward to the rock pile jetty at the end of the fuel dock and I 
start shouting for the crew to raise the main and get our butts away from the 
rocks. The wind was blowing abeam and it was impossible to raise the main, one 
crew member quickly unfurls about 10' of the genoa and we develop enough 
forward motion to provide me steerage. We barely missed ending up on the rocks. 
I had the marina haul the boat and they replaced the coupler and many boat 
dollars later, I am back sailing.


  Tom Vincent
  Frolic II, C 36'cb
  Chesapeake City, MD


--


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  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
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greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[G Collins via CnC-List]

I had it happen last year, while being committee boat - so anchored in an open 
area, lee shore.  Thankfully our mark boat was a big one and could tow me in.  
New shaft and coupling...

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2016-07-01 2:15 PM, TOM VINCENT via CnC-List wrote:
It seems this is the year for the shaft to remove itself from the coupler. I 
race on Wednesday nights on the Bohemia River and 4 weeks ago I had decided to 
go out early and warm up a little. I had to return to the fuel dock to pick up 
one crew member. I was adjacent of the pier and he hopped aboard, I slid the 
gear shift lever down, this puts the trans in forward, and nothing. We were 
slowly moving forward to the rock pile jetty at the end of the fuel dock and I 
start shouting for the crew to raise the main and get our butts away from the 
rocks. The wind was blowing abeam and it was impossible to raise the main, one 
crew member quickly unfurls about 10' of the genoa and we develop enough 
forward motion to provide me steerage. We barely missed ending up on the rocks. 
I had the marina haul the boat and they replaced the coupler and many boat 
dollars later, I am back sailing.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II, C 36'cb
Chesapeake City, MD



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[William Walker via CnC-List]

That is exactly what happened.  However, my shaft is a tight fit, not slipping easily into coupler, this I am perplexed.   Having said this, I know prior owner and it has been at least 10 years since installed.  I think a periodic removal and inspection of set screws in order.  
Bill Walker
On Jun 30, 2016 6:27 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List  wrote:The guidance I received is that the shaft needs to be a tight fit inside the coupler.The matched prop shaft and coupler set I got back from the prop company wouldnot slide together by hand, needed light taps from a rubber mallet. The companysaid if there was much play and even a slight bit of misalignment causing vibrationthat overtime it would wear down any high point or possibly the set screw.So it may be that the previously tightened and seizing wired set screw is not backingoff, the end is wearing down until it appears to be loose.Michael BrownWindburnC 30-1Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:17:42 + (UTC)
From: Daniel Sheer 
To: Cnc-list CNC Boat Owners 
Subject: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
Message-ID:
     <1554588852.4980586.1467321462816.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Just had my shaft slip out of the coupling as well. Zincs forward of the strut kept it from coming out of the boat. It was "lazy, hazy, crazy days of summer" getting the shaft back up so I could reattach it to the coupling. An hour and a half of "grunting and swearing and beer" before we were on our way again. Had holes in the shaft for the set screws. All on tight. Still came out. I put stop nuts on the set screws, and, since the key was moving as well, two hose clamps to hold the key in place. Also replaced the lock washers on the coupling bolts. We'll see. I'm checking it before each sail.
Dan SheerPegathy - LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco
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Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The guidance I received is that the shaft needs to be a tight fit inside the 
coupler.
The matched prop shaft and coupler set I got back from the prop company would
not slide together by hand, needed light taps from a rubber mallet. The company
said if there was much play and even a slight bit of misalignment causing 
vibration
that overtime it would wear down any high point or possibly the set screw.

So it may be that the previously tightened and seizing wired set screw is not 
backing
off, the end is wearing down until it appears to be loose.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:17:42 + (UTC) 
From: Daniel Sheer  
To: Cnc-list CNC Boat Owners  
Subject: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes 
Message-ID: 
     <1554588852.4980586.1467321462816.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Just had my shaft slip out of the coupling as well. Zincs forward of the strut 
kept it from coming out of the boat. It was "lazy, hazy, crazy days of summer" 
getting the shaft back up so I could reattach it to the coupling. An hour and a 
half of "grunting and swearing and beer" before we were on our way again. Had 
holes in the shaft for the set screws. All on tight. Still came out. I put stop 
nuts on the set screws, and, since the key was moving as well, two hose clamps 
to hold the key in place. Also replaced the lock washers on the coupling bolts. 
We'll see. I'm checking it before each sail. 
Dan SheerPegathy - LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco 
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Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

When I think of shaft set screws, I think of cone tip set screws.  I think
that's what Touche' has.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:24 PM, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Four years ago I put a new Universal M3-20B in our club launch, and new
> shaft as well.  Drilled pretty deep holes in the shaft for the set screws,
> tightened them and wired them in place.  After about two months the shaft
> slipped out, with no apparent damage to the shaft.  I think what happened
> was the threads on the end of the screws compressed in the holes allowing
> enough play to release the shaft.  I then put the set screws in a lathe and
> cut the bottom of the threads off, so it was just a solid tip, and tapered
> the end.  It's held since then.
>
> Neil Gallagher
> Weatherly, 35-1
> Glen Cove, NY
>
>
>
> On 6/30/2016 2:06 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I believe you but that's a bit scary.  Shaft installed correctly using
> best practice and it still came out.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, William Walker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but over time
>> I suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the bolts in the
>> detentes.  I have a good picture I could send.
>> Bill Walker
>>
>> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>> --
>> On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> wrote:
>> Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good
>> idea to drill some if not.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the
>>> shaft pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts
>>> were still in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in
>>> the bilge, mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on
>>> shaft above the prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the
>>> boat.
>>> Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.
>>> A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water ?
>>> Bill Walker
>>> CnC 36
>>> Evening Star
>>> Pentwater, Mi
>>>
>>> Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
>>>
>>> -- Original message--
>>> *From: *Frederick G Street via CnC-List
>>> *Date: *Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM
>>> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com;
>>> *Cc: *Frederick G Street;
>>> *Subject:*Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
>>>
>>> And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road
>>> before…   :^)
>>>
>>> If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870
>>> series, depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you *MAY* need
>>> to replace the entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I
>>> had the older (300 series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and
>>> trying to fit engine control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very
>>> unpleasant task.  I finally bit the bullet and got a completely new
>>> pedestal; with the wider riser tube, it was a much better solution, and the
>>> new pedestal was a better fit for my wheel pilot, as well.
>>>
>>> — Fred
>>>
>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>>
>>> On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>> To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by
>>> manually moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at
>>> the pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control
>>> related.  Depending on which control you have, there are several items to
>>> check:
>>> 1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long
>>> brass clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your
>>> compass which will need to come off to check.It is roughly 4.5” long.
>>> The end of your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is
>>> connected to the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get
>>> old and hard to move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of th

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

A prop shaft company I dealt with advised me to use steel cup point grub screws
centered in a slight dimple on the shaft.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 
Four years ago I put a new Universal M3-20B in our club launch, and new  
shaft as well.  Drilled pretty deep holes in the shaft for the set  
screws, tightened them and wired them in place.  After about two months  
the shaft slipped out, with no apparent damage to the shaft. I think  
what happened was the threads on the end of the screws compressed in the  
holes allowing enough play to release the shaft. I then put the set  
screws in a lathe and cut the bottom of the threads off, so it was just  
a solid tip, and tapered the end.  It's held since then. 
 
Neil Gallagher 
Weatherly, 35-1 
Glen Cove, NY 
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Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

I get round this by having the shaft firmly rusted into the coupling. Not ideal 
when it comes to removing it of course.
Cheers,
Paul. 

27mk2
Sidney BC. 

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 13:06:47 -0500
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: capt...@gmail.com

I believe you but that's a bit scary.  Shaft installed correctly using best 
practice and it still came out.

Dennis C.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, William Walker via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but over time I 
suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the bolts in the detentes.  
I have a good picture I could send. 

Bill Walker 
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good idea 
to drill some if not.

Dennis C.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:








Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft 
pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were still 
in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the bilge, 
mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on shaft above the 
prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the boat.  Boat in haul 
out well so we can make repair today.  A reminder that the zinc is important 
even in fresh water Bill WalkerCnC 36Evening StarPentwater, Mi
Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
-- Original message--From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List Date: Thu, 
Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Frederick G 
Street;Subject:Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road before…  
 :^)
If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870 series, 
depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you MAY need to replace the 
entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 
series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine 
control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant task.  I 
finally bit the bullet and got a completely new pedestal; with the wider riser 
tube, it was a much better solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for 
my wheel pilot, as well.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Bill,To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:1.  
The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass clevis that 
looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass which will need 
to come off to check.It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of your 33 series 
cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to the shift lever 
via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to move, I’ve seen 
many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in the clevis, 
rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a replacement cable 
(not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new clevis if the threaded 
end can’t be extracted.2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, 
you can move your throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the 
housing of the cable is no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the 
cable won’t move independently of the cable housing, which means the cable 
won’t do anything at the transmission end.Depending on the model of shifter 
you have, this can be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 
816 control (shift and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the 
compass), there will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel 
shaft on the aft side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a 
cable clamp, either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the 
boat.  The plastic ones can break over time, especially if the cable is as old 
as the boat and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on replacing the cable clamp 
(along with the cables) can be found 
here:http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDFThe
 process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions carefully 
before tearing into the project. If the engine control levers are set on port 
and starboard just aft of the pedestal between the pedestal column and the 
wheel and the control cables run inside their own 

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[William Walker via CnC-List]

hmm.  wish had seen this before finished repair. 
Bill Walker

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Neil Gallagher via CnC-List  
wrote:

Four years ago I put a new Universal M3-20B in our club launch, and new shaft 
as well.  Drilled pretty deep holes in the shaft for the set screws, tightened 
them and wired them in place.  After about two months the shaft slipped out, 
with no apparent damage to the shaft.  I think what happened was the threads on 
the end of the screws compressed in the holes allowing enough play to release 
the shaft.  I then put the set screws in a lathe and cut the bottom of the 
threads off, so it was just a solid tip, and tapered the end.  It's held since 
then.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY


On 6/30/2016 2:06 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

I believe you but that's a bit scary.  Shaft installed correctly using best 
practice and it still came out.

Dennis C.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but over time I 
suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the bolts in the detentes.  
I have a good picture I could send. 
Bill Walker 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good idea 
to drill some if not.

Dennis C.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com  
wrote:

Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft 
pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were still 
in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the bilge, 
mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on shaft above the 
prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the boat.  

Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.  

A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water ?

Bill Walker

CnC 36

Evening Star

Pentwater, Mi


Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet


-- Original message--

From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 

Date: Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;

Cc: Frederick G Street;

Subject:Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes


And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road before…  
 :^) 


If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870 series, 
depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you MAY need to replace the 
entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 
series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine 
control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant task.  I 
finally bit the bullet and got a completely new pedestal; with the wider riser 
tube, it was a much better solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for 
my wheel pilot, as well.


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Bill,

To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:

1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass 
clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass 
which will need to come off to check.    It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of 
your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to 
the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to 
move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in 
the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a 
replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new 
clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.

2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move your 
throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the cable is 
no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t move 
independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do anything at 
the transmission end.    Depending on the model of shifter you have, this can 
be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 816 control (shift 
and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the compass), there 
will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel shaft on the aft 
side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a cable clamp, 
either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the boat.  The 
plastic ones can break over time, especially if 

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[William Walker via CnC-List]

all repaired.  ends of bolts were worn down, I suspect over years, little by 
little to shape of shaft.  shaft still smooth.  cleaned up the detentes with 
drill, cleaned key way with file and installed new key, Snug fit, and new 
keeper bolts.  all well that ends well.  good for another xx years I hope.  
Bill Walker

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

I believe you but that's a bit scary.  Shaft installed correctly using best 
practice and it still came out.

Dennis C.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but over time I 
suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the bolts in the detentes.  
I have a good picture I could send. 
Bill Walker 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good idea 
to drill some if not.

Dennis C.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com  
wrote:

Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft 
pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were still 
in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the bilge, 
mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on shaft above the 
prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the boat.  

Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.  

A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water 

Bill Walker

CnC 36

Evening Star

Pentwater, Mi


Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet


-- Original message--

From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 

Date: Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;

Cc: Frederick G Street;

Subject:Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes


And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road before…  
 :^)


If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870 series, 
depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you MAY need to replace the 
entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 
series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine 
control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant task.  I 
finally bit the bullet and got a completely new pedestal; with the wider riser 
tube, it was a much better solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for 
my wheel pilot, as well.


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Bill,

To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:

1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass 
clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass 
which will need to come off to check.    It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of 
your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to 
the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to 
move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in 
the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a 
replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new 
clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.

2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move your 
throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the cable is 
no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t move 
independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do anything at 
the transmission end.    Depending on the model of shifter you have, this can 
be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 816 control (shift 
and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the compass), there 
will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel shaft on the aft 
side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a cable clamp, 
either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the boat.  The 
plastic ones can break over time, especially if the cable is as old as the boat 
and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on replacing the cable clamp (along with 
the cables) can be found 
here:http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDF

The process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions carefully 
before tearing into the project.

 

If the engine control levers are set on port and starboard just 

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Four years ago I put a new Universal M3-20B in our club launch, and new 
shaft as well.  Drilled pretty deep holes in the shaft for the set 
screws, tightened them and wired them in place.  After about two months 
the shaft slipped out, with no apparent damage to the shaft. I think 
what happened was the threads on the end of the screws compressed in the 
holes allowing enough play to release the shaft. I then put the set 
screws in a lathe and cut the bottom of the threads off, so it was just 
a solid tip, and tapered the end.  It's held since then.


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY


On 6/30/2016 2:06 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
I believe you but that's a bit scary.  Shaft installed correctly using 
best practice and it still came out.


Dennis C.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, William Walker via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but
over time I suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the
bolts in the detentes.  I have a good picture I could send.
Bill Walker

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set
screws?  Good idea to drill some if not.

Dennis C.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com
<mailto:wwadjo...@aol.com> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it
seems the shaft pulled out of the connector to transmission. 
The two "keeper" bolts were still in place and wired so as to

not vibrate loose.  The key was in the bilge, mangled, under
the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on shaft above
the prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the
boat.
Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.
A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water ?
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Evening Star
Pentwater, Mi

Sent from my LG G Pad F^(TM) 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet

-- Original message--
*From: *Frederick G Street via CnC-List
*Date: *Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM
*To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>;
    *Cc: *Frederick G Street;
*Subject:*Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

And to amplify a bit on Chuck's answer, since I've been down
this road before...   :^)

If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816
or 870 series, depending on the age and size of your pedestal,
you /MAY/ need to replace the entire pedestal riser as well.
On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 series?) pedestal
with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine control
cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant
task.  I finally bit the bullet and got a completely new
pedestal; with the wider riser tube, it was a much better
solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for my wheel
pilot, as well.

--- Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Bill,
To echo Edd's suggestion, if your engine transmission
engages by manually moving the lever on the gearbox but
not using the shift control at the pedestal, I too believe
the problem to be cable or engine control related. 
Depending on which control you have, there are several

items to check:
1.The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a
long brass clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is
located beneath your compass which will need to come off
to check.   It is roughly 4.5" long.  The end of your 33
series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is
connected to the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter. 
As cables get old and hard to move, I've seen many times

where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in the
clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The
solution is a replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+
year old boat) as well as a new clevis if the threaded end
can't be extracted.
2.The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can
move your throttle and shift levers up an

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I believe you but that's a bit scary.  Shaft installed correctly using best
practice and it still came out.

Dennis C.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but over time
> I suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the bolts in the
> detentes.  I have a good picture I could send.
> Bill Walker
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> --
> On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
> Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good
> idea to drill some if not.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft
>> pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were
>> still in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the
>> bilge, mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on
>> shaft above the prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the
>> boat.
>> Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.
>> A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water 
>> Bill Walker
>> CnC 36
>> Evening Star
>> Pentwater, Mi
>>
>> Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
>>
>> -- Original message--
>> *From: *Frederick G Street via CnC-List
>> *Date: *Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM
>> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com;
>> *Cc: *Frederick G Street;
>> *Subject:*Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
>>
>> And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road
>> before…   :^)
>>
>> If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870
>> series, depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you *MAY* need
>> to replace the entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I
>> had the older (300 series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and
>> trying to fit engine control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very
>> unpleasant task.  I finally bit the bullet and got a completely new
>> pedestal; with the wider riser tube, it was a much better solution, and the
>> new pedestal was a better fit for my wheel pilot, as well.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>
>> On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>> To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually
>> moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the
>> pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.
>> Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:
>> 1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long
>> brass clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your
>> compass which will need to come off to check.It is roughly 4.5” long.
>> The end of your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is
>> connected to the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get
>> old and hard to move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the
>> cable breaks off in the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.
>> The solution is a replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat)
>> as well as a new clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.
>> 2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move
>> your throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the
>> cable is no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t
>> move independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do
>> anything at the transmission end.Depending on the model of shifter you
>> have, this can be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or
>> 816 control (shift and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below
>> the compass), there will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the
>> wheel shaft on the aft side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that
>> point is a cable clamp, either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the
>> age of the boat.  The plastic ones can break over time, especially if the
>> cable is as old as the boat and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on
>> replacing the cable clamp (along with the cables) can

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[William Walker via CnC-List]

actually there were.  I can't figure out how they got free, but over time I 
suspect back and forth, forward reverse, wore down the bolts in the detentes.  
I have a good picture I could send. 
Bill Walker 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good idea 
to drill some if not.

Dennis C.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com  
wrote:

Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft 
pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were still 
in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the bilge, 
mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on shaft above the 
prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the boat.  

Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.  

A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water 

Bill Walker

CnC 36

Evening Star

Pentwater, Mi


Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet


-- Original message--

From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 

Date: Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;

Cc: Frederick G Street;

Subject:Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes


And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road before…  
 :^)


If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870 series, 
depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you MAY need to replace the 
entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 
series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine 
control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant task.  I 
finally bit the bullet and got a completely new pedestal; with the wider riser 
tube, it was a much better solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for 
my wheel pilot, as well.


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Bill,

To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:

1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass 
clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass 
which will need to come off to check.    It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of 
your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to 
the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to 
move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in 
the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a 
replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new 
clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.

2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move your 
throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the cable is 
no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t move 
independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do anything at 
the transmission end.    Depending on the model of shifter you have, this can 
be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 816 control (shift 
and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the compass), there 
will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel shaft on the aft 
side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a cable clamp, 
either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the boat.  The 
plastic ones can break over time, especially if the cable is as old as the boat 
and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on replacing the cable clamp (along with 
the cables) can be found 
here:http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDF

The process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions carefully 
before tearing into the project.

 

If the engine control levers are set on port and starboard just aft of the 
pedestal between the pedestal column and the wheel and the control cables run 
inside their own 1” stainless steel tubes that sit behind the pedestal base, 
you have either a 727 or 747 control.    If this is your set up there are going 
to be challenges with replacing a cable clamp.  I would typically recommend 
calling Edson and seeing if they still have any cable holders for a model 727 
engine control for a series 33 shift cable and also as them to send you the 
engineering bulletin that shows the breakdown of the controller (which was 
discontinued in the late 1980’s).   They will likely recommend selling you 
either the 

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Guessing there weren't any detents in the shaft for the set screws?  Good
idea to drill some if not.

Dennis C.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft
> pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were
> still in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the
> bilge, mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on
> shaft above the prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the
> boat.
> Boat in haul out well so we can make repair today.
> A reminder that the zinc is important even in fresh water 
> Bill Walker
> CnC 36
> Evening Star
> Pentwater, Mi
>
> Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Frederick G Street via CnC-List
> *Date: *Thu, Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AM
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com;
> *Cc: *Frederick G Street;
> *Subject:*Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
>
> And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road
> before…   :^)
>
> If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870
> series, depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you *MAY* need to
> replace the entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had
> the older (300 series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying
> to fit engine control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very
> unpleasant task.  I finally bit the bullet and got a completely new
> pedestal; with the wider riser tube, it was a much better solution, and the
> new pedestal was a better fit for my wheel pilot, as well.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually
> moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the
> pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.
> Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:
> 1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long
> brass clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your
> compass which will need to come off to check.It is roughly 4.5” long.
> The end of your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is
> connected to the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get
> old and hard to move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the
> cable breaks off in the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.
> The solution is a replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat)
> as well as a new clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.
> 2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move your
> throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the cable
> is no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t move
> independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do anything
> at the transmission end.Depending on the model of shifter you have,
> this can be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 816
> control (shift and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the
> compass), there will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the
> wheel shaft on the aft side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that
> point is a cable clamp, either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the
> age of the boat.  The plastic ones can break over time, especially if the
> cable is as old as the boat and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on
> replacing the cable clamp (along with the cables) can be found here:
> http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDF
> The process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions
> carefully before tearing into the project.
>
> If the engine control levers are set on port and starboard just aft of the
> pedestal between the pedestal column and the wheel and the control cables
> run inside their own 1” stainless steel tubes that sit behind the pedestal
> base, you have either a 727 or 747 control.If this is your set up there
> are going to be challenges with replacing a cable clamp.  I would typically
> recommend calling Edson and seeing if they still have any cable holders for
> a model 727 engine control for a series 33 shift cable and also as them to
> send you the engineering bulletin that shows the breakdown of the
> controller (which was discontinued in the late 1980’s).   They will likel

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[wwadjourn]

Thanks all for replies.  On investigation this morning it seems the shaft 
pulled out of the connector to transmission.  The two "keeper" bolts were still 
in place and wired so as to not vibrate loose.  The key was in the bilge, 
mangled, under the connection of shaft and tranny.  The zinc on shaft above the 
prop strut did its job and kept the shaft from exiting the boat.  Boat in haul 
out well so we can make repair today.  A reminder that the zinc is important 
even in fresh water Bill WalkerCnC 36Evening StarPentwater, Mi
Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
-- Original message--From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List Date: Thu, 
Jun 30, 2016 9:02 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Frederick G 
Street;Subject:Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road before…  
 :^)
If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870 series, 
depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you MAY need to replace the 
entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 
series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine 
control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant task.  I 
finally bit the bullet and got a completely new pedestal; with the wider riser 
tube, it was a much better solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for 
my wheel pilot, as well.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 wrote:
Bill,To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:1.  
The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass clevis that 
looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass which will need 
to come off to check.    It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of your 33 series 
cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to the shift lever 
via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to move, I’ve seen 
many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in the clevis, 
rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a replacement cable 
(not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new clevis if the threaded 
end can’t be extracted.2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, 
you can move your throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the 
housing of the cable is no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the 
cable won’t move independently of the cable housing, which means the cable 
won’t do anything at the transmission end.    Depending on the model of shifter 
you have, this can be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 
816 control (shift and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the 
compass), there will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel 
shaft on the aft side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a 
cable clamp, either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the 
boat.  The plastic ones can break over time, especially if the cable is as old 
as the boat and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on replacing the cable clamp 
(along with the cables) can be found 
here:http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDFThe
 process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions carefully 
before tearing into the project. If the engine control levers are set on port 
and starboard just aft of the pedestal between the pedestal column and the 
wheel and the control cables run inside their own 1” stainless steel tubes that 
sit behind the pedestal base, you have either a 727 or 747 control.    If this 
is your set up there are going to be challenges with replacing a cable clamp.  
I would typically recommend calling Edson and seeing if they still have any 
cable holders for a model 727 engine control for a series 33 shift cable and 
also as them to send you the engineering bulletin that shows the breakdown of 
the controller (which was discontinued in the late 1980’s).   They will likely 
recommend selling you either the 870 or 816 control (depending whether your 
cable is pushed or pulled to engage the engine in forward).  If you can bite 
the bullet and take that approach, you’ll probably be a bit happier in the long 
run since the 727 control is a PITA to work on.  If you’re married to the 
existing control, you’ll need to remove the compass, remove the pedestal top 
plate that covers the control’s internal cable attachments and then try to 
slide the cable up the tube to check that the cable clamp is still intact.  
Again, if Edson no longer has any more of the clamps, 

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

And to amplify a bit on Chuck’s answer, since I’ve been down this road before…  
 :^)

If you end up switching your engine controls to either the 816 or 870 series, 
depending on the age and size of your pedestal, you MAY need to replace the 
entire pedestal riser as well.  On my 1979 Landfall 38, I had the older (300 
series?) pedestal with the narrower riser tube; and trying to fit engine 
control cables down inside that skinny tube was a very unpleasant task.  I 
finally bit the bullet and got a completely new pedestal; with the wider riser 
tube, it was a much better solution, and the new pedestal was a better fit for 
my wheel pilot, as well.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bill,
> To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
> moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
> pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
> Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:
> 1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass 
> clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass 
> which will need to come off to check.It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of 
> your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to 
> the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to 
> move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in 
> the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a 
> replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new 
> clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.
> 2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move your 
> throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the cable 
> is no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t move 
> independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do anything 
> at the transmission end.Depending on the model of shifter you have, this 
> can be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 816 control 
> (shift and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the compass), 
> there will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel shaft on 
> the aft side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a cable 
> clamp, either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the boat.  
> The plastic ones can break over time, especially if the cable is as old as 
> the boat and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on replacing the cable clamp 
> (along with the cables) can be found 
> here:http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDF
>  
> 
> The process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions 
> carefully before tearing into the project.
>  
> If the engine control levers are set on port and starboard just aft of the 
> pedestal between the pedestal column and the wheel and the control cables run 
> inside their own 1” stainless steel tubes that sit behind the pedestal base, 
> you have either a 727 or 747 control.If this is your set up there are 
> going to be challenges with replacing a cable clamp.  I would typically 
> recommend calling Edson and seeing if they still have any cable holders for a 
> model 727 engine control for a series 33 shift cable and also as them to send 
> you the engineering bulletin that shows the breakdown of the controller 
> (which was discontinued in the late 1980’s).   They will likely recommend 
> selling you either the 870 or 816 control (depending whether your cable is 
> pushed or pulled to engage the engine in forward).  If you can bite the 
> bullet and take that approach, you’ll probably be a bit happier in the long 
> run since the 727 control is a PITA to work on.  If you’re married to the 
> existing control, you’ll need to remove the compass, remove the pedestal top 
> plate that covers the control’s internal cable attachments and then try to 
> slide the cable up the tube to check that the cable clamp is still intact.  
> Again, if Edson no longer has any more of the clamps, you may need to 
> fabricate your own from sheet metal stock…
> Good luck with this project and you can usually get someone on the phone at 
> Edson to walk you through some of it.  Bring your phone to the boat with you 
> and take pictures which you can send to their tech support staff as they help 
> you.
>  
> Best,
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1983 LF 35
> Padanaram, MA

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Bill,

To echo Edd’s suggestion, if your engine transmission engages by manually 
moving the lever on the gearbox but not using the shift control at the 
pedestal, I too believe the problem to be cable or engine control related.  
Depending on which control you have, there are several items to check:

1.  The shift cable attaches to the lever at the helm via a long brass 
clevis that looks like a tuning fork.  This is located beneath your compass 
which will need to come off to check.It is roughly 4.5” long.  The end of 
your 33 series cable threads into the end of the clevis which is connected to 
the shift lever via a clevis pin and cotter.  As cables get old and hard to 
move, I’ve seen many times where the threaded end of the cable breaks off in 
the clevis, rendering the shift mechanism unusable.  The solution is a 
replacement cable (not a bad idea on a 30+ year old boat) as well as a new 
clevis if the threaded end can’t be extracted.

2.  The cable clamp has broken.  When this happens, you can move your 
throttle and shift levers up and down, but because the housing of the cable is 
no longer being held in place, the inside rod in the cable won’t move 
independently of the cable housing, which means the cable won’t do anything at 
the transmission end.Depending on the model of shifter you have, this can 
be easy or a bear to replace.  If you have a model 870 or 816 control (shift 
and throttle are in a cylindrical housing directly below the compass), there 
will be a screw or hex nut located about 5-6” below the wheel shaft on the aft 
side of the pedestal.  Inside the pedestal at that point is a cable clamp, 
either made of aluminum or plastic depending on the age of the boat.  The 
plastic ones can break over time, especially if the cable is as old as the boat 
and is stiff to operate.  Instructions on replacing the cable clamp (along with 
the cables) can be found here: 
http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB396EngineControlInstr.PDF

The process is not intuitive so it is worth reading the instructions carefully 
before tearing into the project.

 

If the engine control levers are set on port and starboard just aft of the 
pedestal between the pedestal column and the wheel and the control cables run 
inside their own 1” stainless steel tubes that sit behind the pedestal base, 
you have either a 727 or 747 control.If this is your set up there are going 
to be challenges with replacing a cable clamp.  I would typically recommend 
calling Edson and seeing if they still have any cable holders for a model 727 
engine control for a series 33 shift cable and also as them to send you the 
engineering bulletin that shows the breakdown of the controller (which was 
discontinued in the late 1980’s).   They will likely recommend selling you 
either the 870 or 816 control (depending whether your cable is pushed or pulled 
to engage the engine in forward).  If you can bite the bullet and take that 
approach, you’ll probably be a bit happier in the long run since the 727 
control is a PITA to work on.  If you’re married to the existing control, 
you’ll need to remove the compass, remove the pedestal top plate that covers 
the control’s internal cable attachments and then try to slide the cable up the 
tube to check that the cable clamp is still intact.  Again, if Edson no longer 
has any more of the clamps, you may need to fabricate your own from sheet metal 
stock…

Good luck with this project and you can usually get someone on the phone at 
Edson to walk you through some of it.  Bring your phone to the boat with you 
and take pictures which you can send to their tech support staff as they help 
you.

 

Best,

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 LF 35

Padanaram, MA

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay <e...@schillay.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

 

Bill,

 

If it goes into gear by hand, I would think it's a cable issue. Might just need 
some tightening. 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

---

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

NCC-1701-B

C 37+ | City Island, NY

www.StarshipSailing.com <http://www.starshipsailing.com> 

---

914.332.4400  | Office

914.774.9767  | Mobile

---

Sent via iPhone 6

iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:22 AM, wwadjo...@aol.com <mailto:wwadjo...@aol.com>  via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Good Morning,

I have yanmar 3gm30 with Kanzaki Birth KH18 gearbox. Two blade Max Prop.

Saturday after race when started engine and placed in gear no forward or 
reverse.  Went below and had someone shift neutral, forward, neutral, reverse.  
I could see prop shaft turning.  Buttoned up and worked fine rest of day 
th

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Bill,

If it goes into gear by hand, I would think it's a cable issue. Might just need 
some tightening. 


All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 6
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize

On Jun 30, 2016, at 7:22 AM, wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Good Morning,
I have yanmar 3gm30 with Kanzaki Birth KH18 gearbox. Two blade Max Prop.
Saturday after race when started engine and placed in gear no forward or 
reverse.  Went below and had someone shift neutral, forward, neutral, reverse.  
I could see prop shaft turning.  Buttoned up and worked fine rest of day 
through docking and later return to mooring.  
Yesterday, same symptoms trying to leave mooring for first time since Saturday. 
 Sailed back to mooring.  Going to troubleshoot this morning.
Thoughts to check:
Shift linkage. Make sure full travel.
Transmission fluid level.
Turn shaft by hand to feel geared prop reversing
Dive on prop to see if fouled with fishing line, etc?

Any thoughts welcome.
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi


Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[wwadjourn]

Hurth, ugh.Bill Walker
Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet
-- Original message--From: wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List Date: Thu, 
Jun 30, 2016 7:24 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: 
wwadjo...@aol.com;Subject:Stus-List Transmission/prop woes
Good Morning,I have yanmar 3gm30 with Kanzaki Birth KH18 gearbox. Two blade 
Max Prop.Saturday after race when started engine and placed in gear no forward 
or reverse.  Went below and had someone shift neutral, forward, neutral, 
reverse.  I could see prop shaft turning.  Buttoned up and worked fine rest of 
day through docking and later return to mooring.   Yesterday, same symptoms 
trying to leave mooring for first time since Saturday.  Sailed back to mooring. 
 Going to troubleshoot this morning.Thoughts to check:Shift linkage. Make sure 
full travel.Transmission fluid level.Turn shaft by hand to feel geared prop 
reversingDive on prop to see if fouled with fishing line, etc?
Any thoughts welcome.Bill WalkerCnC 36Pentwater, Mi

Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT 4G LTE tablet___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!