Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
My 35 MKII has a block set (4:1 advantage) inside the boom with 3/8 inch diameter braid. I believe that was original gear and the outhaul was adjusted using a number 10 Barient winch fasten forward to the stbd side of the boom so that meant going up on deck with a winch handle in hand to make clew outhaul adjustments. A few years ago I changed the line on the block set because the old line was worn and I needed a longer length of line so that I could lead it from inside the boom at the gooseneck and 90 degrees down to the base of the mast and then to turning blocks and fianlly thru a lewmar clutch to a cabin top winch. That system works quite well for tensioning the clew outhaul but even with a loose foot main relaxing tension to create a fuller sail in light air requires a push on the clew slug...makes me wonder that if the air is not strong enough to make the sail fuller under relaxed outhaul tension then does that adjustment really matter all that much...I really can't say that I have noticed much of a speed difference so most of the time I don't bother to relax tension as the air lightens...I sail mostly with the loose foot about 4-6 inches off the boom at its center and tension slightly more going to weather in winds above 17 apparent or so. I think the block set creates added friction preventing easy release on relaxing tension and the clew slug also adds friction. Lucky enough on the 35 MKII that is not the most important adjsutment on the boat IMHO. Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: If this is anything like the 115 it is likely already run to a winch as well. On the 115 I believe there is also the internal blocks and it is still run to a winch and difficult to tighten under load. Yes the winches are usually busy with other tasks but the outhaul does run to a cabin top winch on both the 115 and the CC 99 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, May 04, 2015 6:55 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul The winch is likely in use trimming spinnaker or something else when you most want to adjsut the outhaul and it is so sweet when main trimmer asks for more outhaul that you can just reach over and give it a little pull to make the adjustment. On 03/05/2015 6:29 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List wrote: Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag CC 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
If this is anything like the 115 it is likely already run to a winch as well. On the 115 I believe there is also the internal blocks and it is still run to a winch and difficult to tighten under load. Yes the winches are usually busy with other tasks but the outhaul does run to a cabin top winch on both the 115 and the CC 99 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 6:55 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul The winch is likely in use trimming spinnaker or something else when you most want to adjsut the outhaul and it is so sweet when main trimmer asks for more outhaul that you can just reach over and give it a little pull to make the adjustment. On 03/05/2015 6:29 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List wrote: Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.commailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag CC 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
My 35/3 has a 4:1 outhaul. The forward block is on a bolt thru the boom, and the end of the outhaul is spliced to the becket on that block. I had my rigger replace it, as I was afraid I would not be able to get it back together if I took it apart. It was the last of the original lines on the boat. I think it took 60 feet of line to redo the outhaul. Joel On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Charles Nelson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My 36 XL/kcb has an identical system and is led to cam cleats above companion way-winch not required which makes for quick adjustments. PITA to get to-- attach messenger line to aft end of boom out haul line and pull mast end of system thru. You will probably find the purchase system terminates with shackle attached inside boom near mast. Remove this shackle and you get the whole system out. Biggest issue for me was determining proper length of final short line to mainsail clew. Too long and the 4:1 system 'two blocks' itself with the system blocks coming together before they tension out haul. Too short and the final out haul line to the clew can't be tied off. Not run correctly or twisted during installation and you end up with a FUBAR. Recommend trial and error starting with longer line to get proper length. No need to run the out haul line to a winch when you already have 4:1, assuming that the pit has reasonable leverage on it. Originally (as delivered) this 4:1 system was part of a 6:1 main sheet purchase which allowed either 6:1 or 24:1 adjustments. When I re-rigged my main sheet with a Harken 6:1/24:1 purchase, I used the 4:1 in the boom as described above for my out haul, eliminating the need in heavy air for leading it to a winch. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC XL/kcb 1995 Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2015, at 5:29 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
I have a 2:1 on my 30-1. It goes through a clutch that I have mounted on the boom. Makes adjustments much easier. Cheers, Aaron Admiral Maggie 79 30-1 On May 3, 2015, at 5:29 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
Tim, I have the 1:1 run to a winch as well. We can adjust the outhaul in just about any conditions. Jake Jake Brodersen “Midnight Mistress” CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear via CnC-List Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 6:26 PM To: John Pennie; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul I'd second the adjustability benefit. Somehow it also seems very difficult for people to grasp a small ease/trim when using a winch. Outhaul adjustments are pretty small and the purchase arrangement makes that easier to see. We have a 1:1 to a winch... Tim CC 35-3 Branford, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
I'd second the adjustability benefit. Somehow it also seems very difficult for people to grasp a small ease/trim when using a winch. Outhaul adjustments are pretty small and the purchase arrangement makes that easier to see. We have a 1:1 to a winch... Tim CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 5:58 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks Jeff that makes some kind of sense. I still doubt a 4:1 system led aft would allow for that in anything but very light air. Will play with it for a bit. John Sent from my iPad On May 4, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: The winch is likely in use trimming spinnaker or something else when you most want to adjsut the outhaul and it is so sweet when main trimmer asks for more outhaul that you can just reach over and give it a little pull to make the adjustment. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
The winch is likely in use trimming spinnaker or something else when you most want to adjsut the outhaul and it is so sweet when main trimmer asks for more outhaul that you can just reach over and give it a little pull to make the adjustment. On 03/05/2015 6:29 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List wrote: Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Boat_Sig Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag CC 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Internal Outhaul
My 36 XL/kcb has an identical system and is led to cam cleats above companion way-winch not required which makes for quick adjustments. PITA to get to-- attach messenger line to aft end of boom out haul line and pull mast end of system thru. You will probably find the purchase system terminates with shackle attached inside boom near mast. Remove this shackle and you get the whole system out. Biggest issue for me was determining proper length of final short line to mainsail clew. Too long and the 4:1 system 'two blocks' itself with the system blocks coming together before they tension out haul. Too short and the final out haul line to the clew can't be tied off. Not run correctly or twisted during installation and you end up with a FUBAR. Recommend trial and error starting with longer line to get proper length. No need to run the out haul line to a winch when you already have 4:1, assuming that the pit has reasonable leverage on it. Originally (as delivered) this 4:1 system was part of a 6:1 main sheet purchase which allowed either 6:1 or 24:1 adjustments. When I re-rigged my main sheet with a Harken 6:1/24:1 purchase, I used the 4:1 in the boom as described above for my out haul, eliminating the need in heavy air for leading it to a winch. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC XL/kcb 1995 Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2015, at 5:29 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Internal Outhaul
Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. So I was happily replacing 15 year old running rigging on my 121 today when I discovered the boat came with a 4:1 purchase tucked inside the boom for the outhaul. Who’d a thunk. Two questions for this knowledgeable group. Why in the world would I not rip this out a simply run a line from boom end to cabin top winch? As is, the outhaul runs from boom end, through the purchase system, through a sheave, through a turning block at the mast base, through a deck organizer and finally to a winch on the cabin top. They weren’t even particularly good blocks inside the mast. I would think any mechanical advantage would be lost to friction Perhaps it serves a purpose in that the line won’t jump when taken off the winch. There has to be a block tucked well into the boom attached at some point with, I would guess, a wire lead. How do you get to it? All help appreciated John ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
