Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[bobmor99 . via CnC-List]

 Unclamp, gulp, clamp. Rinse, lather, repeat.
Giving away some racing secrets here.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Do you use a straw?
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 16, 2016, at 7:50 PM, "bobmor99 . via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I clamp my beer in place so I never reef.  Arrr!.
> (Just kidding. Don't try this at home.)  :-)
> Bob M
> Ox 33-1
> Jax, FL
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I reef when my beer falls over.  :)
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Do you use a straw?

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2016, at 7:50 PM, "bobmor99 . via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> I clamp my beer in place so I never reef.  Arrr!.
> (Just kidding. Don't try this at home.)  :-)
> Bob M
> Ox 33-1
> Jax, FL
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> I reef when my beer falls over.  :)
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
> 
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[bobmor99 . via CnC-List]

I clamp my beer in place so I never reef.  Arrr!.
(Just kidding. Don't try this at home.)  :-)
Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I reef when my beer falls over.  :)
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Dave via CnC-List]

No such thing as an agile front row 

Dave 
C 35 Mk3 
Saltaire 
Bristol, RI 


- Original Message -

From: "Mike via CnC-List Hoyt" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Mike Hoyt" <mike.h...@impgroup.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 8:39:01 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2 



Yup he is dreaming. 



First of all us old guys dream that we are 200 pounders and secondly we are not 
agile. 



We have raced with as many as 17 on the C 115 Koobalibra. Had a front and 
back row on the rail! We could really hold the spin on a tight angle that day 
(and we won the race) 



Mike 

Persistence 

Dreaming of being 200 lbs and agile 








From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mike 
Amirault via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:02 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Mike Amirault 
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2 





Dwight, you’re dreamin’. You are never gonna find 7 or 8 agile 200 pounders 
willing to sit on your rail. neither will I. 


For that reason, I have decided to not race Lovely Cruise any longer. 

___ 

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Not dreaming just saying to race effectively you need that crew on a 35mkII
and when you got that crew you can carry full main into a higher apparent
wind before reefing. So regarding the original question about when to reef
crew weight has an effect. IMHO it is advantageous to have all main sail
reefing lines lead to the cockpit including a line to secure the tack
cringle.

On Tuesday, February 16, 2016, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Yup he is dreaming.
>
>
>
> First of all us old guys dream that we are 200 pounders and secondly we
> are not agile.
>
>
>
> We have raced with as many as 17 on the C 115 Koobalibra.  Had a front
> and back row on the rail!  We could really hold the spin on a tight angle
> that day (and we won the race)
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> Dreaming of being 200 lbs and agile
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com');>] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Amirault via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:02 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list@cnc-list.com');>
> *Cc:* Mike Amirault
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
>
>
>
> Dwight, you’re dreamin’. You are never gonna find 7 or 8 agile 200
> pounders willing to sit on your rail. neither will I.
>
> For that reason, I have decided to not race Lovely Cruise any longer.
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Yup he is dreaming.

First of all us old guys dream that we are 200 pounders and secondly we are not 
agile.

We have raced with as many as 17 on the C 115 Koobalibra.  Had a front and 
back row on the rail!  We could really hold the spin on a tight angle that day 
(and we won the race)

Mike
Persistence
Dreaming of being 200 lbs and agile



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mike 
Amirault via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Mike Amirault
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

Dwight, you’re dreamin’. You are never gonna find 7 or 8 agile 200 pounders 
willing to sit on your rail. neither will I.
For that reason, I have decided to not race Lovely Cruise any longer.
___

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

Maybe that's why it was so damn hard to change the headsail


I'd rather be sailing

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Brad,

When you race in one of these, do you need to keep one hand tied 
behind your back or can you let it just hang at your side?


Inquiring minds want to know. :)

Happy V D to all.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Vancouver Island, bounded by the Salish Sea, Johnstone 
Strait & North Pacific Ocean



At 02:52 PM 14/02/2016, you wrote:
Was out last fall for the Lower Lake Huron Single Handed, on our new 
to us 33-2, my first single handed. Headed out with the 155 on the 
furler, realized before start that it was WAY too much so set about 
changing to #3, quite a "Charlie Foxtrot". Was 20 min late to the 
start. Should have thrown a reef in as well as i saw 28 knots true 
wind. Lesson learned!  Saw boat speeds of 10.8 on GPS. Would reef 
between 18 and 20 depending on passengers/crew.

Brad
Pulse 1985 C 33 MkII
[]
[]

I'd rather be sailing
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Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

Was out last fall for the Lower Lake Huron Single Handed, on our new to us 
33-2, my first single handed. Headed out with the 155 on the furler, realized 
before start that it was WAY too much so set about changing to #3, quite a 
"Charlie Foxtrot". Was 20 min late to the start. Should have thrown a reef in 
as well as i saw 28 knots true wind. Lesson learned!  Saw boat speeds of 10.8 
on GPS. Would reef between 18 and 20 depending on passengers/crew.
Brad
Pulse 1985 C 33 MkII


I'd rather be sailing

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have wondered what the limiting factor would be when carrying too much sail 
area,
and had a chance to test it out over a 5 hour sail. Part of the reason is I do 
sail and
race solo so knowing what to expect is an advantage, and also Lake Ontario does 
get
variable weather and sometimes poor forecasting.

The day in question started in the high teens and ended in 30+ kts. I flew a 
full main
and North 3Di 155% double handed.

As expected simple trim worked well to where we normally fly this combination, 
the
17 - 18 kt true range. With more twist and halyard tension things stayed OK up 
to
22 kts true and in combination with pointing up ( feathering ) we could go well 
to
wind and stay upright to about 24 kts. Surprisingly the VMG was good ( about 
28 degrees AWA ) and leeway was minimal.

I could sense the limit arriving at 27 kts true. Windburn was feathered pretty 
tight
and sail area was depowered so the equilibrium between over the bow wind drag
and force generated in the sails was getting close.

The limiting effect was wave height though. When we got hit by the random
"significant" swell it depowered us too much going up into it and then falling 
off
the back side forced a tack. We were ready for the tack so that was fine but
recovering from full canvas sideways in 27+ knots doesn't work well. My take is
that there is no way to power up into the wind so falling way off and building
hull speed downwind is required first. I could not tack normally so had to
time rounding up with a wave to get over, and then head down wind again
before trimming back up into the wind.

Hopefully a skill set never required.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:12:11 -0800 
From: Russ & Melody <russ...@telus.net> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2 
Message-ID: 
     <mailman.136.1455406433.2560.cnc-list_cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" 
 
 
Dwight's content should not be missed. 
Crew weight is as important as apparent wind  
speed & angle and maybe even include time to  
destination or course change for deciding "when to reef". 
 
For me, a simple observation "is the toe-rail  
getting buried" is the tell-tale. If she can't be  
put back on 'er feet by dropping the traveller,  
flattening the main or easing the vang & sheet to  
twist off the head, changing course a bit,  
getting some "wellies to weather" then it's time to reef. 
 
Let the toe-rail be your guide. This goes for any  
size of our boats, they are not initially tender  
so it is not fast or comfortable to sail "on yur ear". 
 
         Cheers, Russ 
         Sweet 35 mk-1 
         Vancouver Island 
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Yes Robert that was 7.3 kts max close hauled SOG on the gps almost
unbelievable for a C 32. A real nice ride

On Friday, February 12, 2016, robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Doug:
>
> Their is no one or simple answer on when to reef a C 33 MKII
> .depends on several factors.are you racing the boat or just
> cruising.  Do you do head sail changes or just keep one on the roller
> furler?  If one on the roller furler, what size is it..150%, 135%,
> 100%?  Are you an experienced sailor or have you recently entered the
> sport?
>
> Some years back, we raced a C 33 MKII extensively.most of the races
> were in wind conditions under 25 knts true.therefore, many days,
> depending on the conditions, we would reduce the size of the headsail
> before we reefed the main sail.
>
> Nevertheless, from memory, the crew would start the discussio about
> reefing the main when the true wind reached 18 to 20 knts.   If the true
> wind held between 18 to 20 knts, we might sail with the #2..if the wind
> was above 20 knts true, we would reef and hoist the #3.
>
> My last sail in the Fall of 2015 with Dwight on my 32, we were in about 16
> knts true and had a full main and 100% and our speed on the GPS was 7.1 to
> 7.3 knts to weather..the boat was standing up quite nicely and it was a
> comfortable ride.  The C 33 MK II will sail every bit as good or better.
>
> Trusting this helps.  Most important thing is to have fun.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
>
>
> On 2016-02-10 9:42 PM, Doug Welch via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for
> input on when folks start to reef.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

I say,  if you're wondering if you should reef, you should reef before you head 
out.   It's a whole lot easier to shake a reef out if you don't need it than it 
is to put one in if you decide you need one while under way. 
You can really never reef to early (if your not racing) but,  you can wait to 
long to reef and cause yourself undue stress. 
Of course,  I don't race so I'm not under any pressure to win anything. 
Danny
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: 
robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 2/12/2016  3:37 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca> 
Subject: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2 

Doug:



Their is no one or simple answer on when to reef a C 33 MKII
.depends on several factors.are you racing the boat or just
cruising.  Do you do head sail changes or just keep one on the
roller furler?  If one on the roller furler, what size is
it..150%, 135%, 100%?  Are you an experienced sailor or have you
recently entered the sport?   



Some years back, we raced a C 33 MKII extensively.most of
the races were in wind conditions under 25 knts true.therefore,
many days, depending on the conditions, we would reduce the size of
the headsail before we reefed the main sail.



Nevertheless, from memory, the crew would start the discussio about
reefing the main when the true wind reached 18 to 20 knts.   If the
true wind held between 18 to 20 knts, we might sail with the
#2..if the wind was above 20 knts true, we would reef and hoist
the #3.



My last sail in the Fall of 2015 with Dwight on my 32, we were in
about 16 knts true and had a full main and 100% and our speed on the
GPS was 7.1 to 7.3 knts to weather..the boat was standing up
quite nicely and it was a comfortable ride.  The C 33 MK II
will sail every bit as good or better.



Trusting this helps.  Most important thing is to have fun.



Rob Abbott

AZURA

C 32 -84

Halifax, N.S.









On 2016-02-10 9:42 PM, Doug Welch via
  CnC-List wrote:



  
Can't wait for spring
  to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for input on when
  folks start to reef.






Cheers,
Doug
  
  

  
  

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

As my old dad always used to say, "The time to reef is when you first think 
about it." The reasoning being that it's easier to shake the reef if the air 
lightens than it is to tuck one in if it gets breezier.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Feb 13, 2016, at 06:23, dwight veinot via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes Robert that was 7.3 kts max close hauled SOG on the gps almost 
> unbelievable for a C 32. A real nice ride
> 
>> On Friday, February 12, 2016, robert via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> Doug:
>> 
>> Their is no one or simple answer on when to reef a C 33 MKII .depends 
>> on several factors.are you racing the boat or just cruising.  Do you do 
>> head sail changes or just keep one on the roller furler?  If one on the 
>> roller furler, what size is it..150%, 135%, 100%?  Are you an 
>> experienced sailor or have you recently entered the sport?   
>> 
>> Some years back, we raced a C 33 MKII extensively.most of the races 
>> were in wind conditions under 25 knts true.therefore, many days, 
>> depending on the conditions, we would reduce the size of the headsail before 
>> we reefed the main sail.
>> 
>> Nevertheless, from memory, the crew would start the discussio about reefing 
>> the main when the true wind reached 18 to 20 knts.   If the true wind held 
>> between 18 to 20 knts, we might sail with the #2..if the wind was above 
>> 20 knts true, we would reef and hoist the #3.
>> 
>> My last sail in the Fall of 2015 with Dwight on my 32, we were in about 16 
>> knts true and had a full main and 100% and our speed on the GPS was 7.1 to 
>> 7.3 knts to weather..the boat was standing up quite nicely and it was a 
>> comfortable ride.  The C 33 MK II will sail every bit as good or better.
>> 
>> Trusting this helps.  Most important thing is to have fun.
>> 
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C 32 -84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-02-10 9:42 PM, Doug Welch via CnC-List wrote:
>>> Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for input 
>>> on when folks start to reef.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Email address:
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>>> bottom of page at:
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>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> ___
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

One season I started early and just left the main reefed even when I packed
up at the end of a sail. We get stiff wind here in early May. Anyway with
Alianna I now prefer full main and furled genoa 135 to 120 then to110 and
mine works ok furled to 100% with no change of lead points. If that's still
too much for comfort the genoa gets rolled up all the way and just full
main alone. Racing is different as the amount of sail you can carry is a
function of weight on the windward rail; crew weight. Never really had
enough on Alianna but I would love to try her with 6 or 8 agile 200
pounders up there; then I am using a 150 up front and ready to do sail
changes.

On Saturday, February 13, 2016, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I say,  if you're wondering if you should reef, you should reef before you
> head out.   It's a whole lot easier to shake a reef out if you don't need
> it than it is to put one in if you decide you need one while under way.
>
> You can really never reef to early (if your not racing) but,  you can wait
> to long to reef and cause yourself undue stress.
>
> Of course,  I don't race so I'm not under any pressure to win anything.
>
> Danny
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>  Original message 
> From: robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list@cnc-list.com');>>
> Date: 2/12/2016 3:37 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cnc-list@cnc-list.com');>
> Cc: robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robertabb...@eastlink.ca');>>
> Subject: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
>
> Doug:
>
> Their is no one or simple answer on when to reef a C 33 MKII
> .depends on several factors.are you racing the boat or just
> cruising.  Do you do head sail changes or just keep one on the roller
> furler?  If one on the roller furler, what size is it..150%, 135%,
> 100%?  Are you an experienced sailor or have you recently entered the
> sport?
>
> Some years back, we raced a C 33 MKII extensively.most of the races
> were in wind conditions under 25 knts true.therefore, many days,
> depending on the conditions, we would reduce the size of the headsail
> before we reefed the main sail.
>
> Nevertheless, from memory, the crew would start the discussio about
> reefing the main when the true wind reached 18 to 20 knts.   If the true
> wind held between 18 to 20 knts, we might sail with the #2..if the wind
> was above 20 knts true, we would reef and hoist the #3.
>
> My last sail in the Fall of 2015 with Dwight on my 32, we were in about 16
> knts true and had a full main and 100% and our speed on the GPS was 7.1 to
> 7.3 knts to weather..the boat was standing up quite nicely and it was a
> comfortable ride.  The C 33 MK II will sail every bit as good or better.
>
> Trusting this helps.  Most important thing is to have fun.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
>
>
> On 2016-02-10 9:42 PM, Doug Welch via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for
> input on when folks start to reef.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>
>
> ___
>
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Mike Amirault via CnC-List]

Dwight, you’re dreamin’. You are never gonna find 7 or 8 agile 200 pounders 
willing to sit on your rail. neither will I.
For that reason, I have decided to not race Lovely Cruise any longer.___

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Dwight's content should not be missed.
Crew weight is as important as apparent wind 
speed & angle and maybe even include time to 
destination or course change for deciding "when to reef".


For me, a simple observation "is the toe-rail 
getting buried" is the tell-tale. If she can't be 
put back on 'er feet by dropping the traveller, 
flattening the main or easing the vang & sheet to 
twist off the head, changing course a bit, 
getting some "wellies to weather" then it's time to reef.


Let the toe-rail be your guide. This goes for any 
size of our boats, they are not initially tender 
so it is not fast or comfortable to sail "on yur ear".


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Vancouver Island

At 06:26 AM 13/02/2016, you wrote:
One season I started early and just left the 
main reefed even when I packed up at the end of 
a sail. We get stiff wind here in early May. 
Anyway with Alianna I now prefer full main and 
furled genoa 135 to 120 then to110 and mine 
works ok furled to 100% with no change of lead 
points. If that's still too much for comfort the 
genoa gets rolled up all the way and just full 
main alone. Racing is different as the amount of 
sail you can carry is a function of weight on 
the windward rail; crew weight. Never really had 
enough on Alianna but I would love to try her 
with 6 or 8 agile 200 pounders up there; then I 
am using a 150 up front and ready to do sail changes.Â




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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

> ...with 6 or 8 agile 200 pounders up there...



Calypso displaces +-24,000lbs with almost 10,000 of that in the keel.



Back in 2008 on the up wind leg of a particularly windy (25 to 35 TWS) 
Foulweather Bluff race we had Calypso set up with 1 reef in the main and a #3 
headsail.  We passed most of the lighter boats that were relying on crew weight 
ballast.  I told the older less agile crew that they could sit wherever they 
wanted, even below if they got cold.



In the higher end of the wind range we would pop in the 2nd reef but the sea 
state made it attractive to keep the power up, heel over a bit and bash some 
waves.  We would  smile and wave to the overpowered boats sliding off to 
leeward eventually having to tack to avoid being embayed in Useless Bay.  
Calypso finally got her conditions, big wind, big waves, adverse current.  We 
finished 3rd in class.



Shortly after crossing the finish line off Edmonds WA we headed back south (up 
wind) to our home port, Shilshole Bay Marina.  Before we made more than a mile 
of progress we got hit with a 48 knot gust (had 2 reefs in the main, #3 
headsail).  The gust knocked us down deep enough to have green water over the 
cockpit winches.  I heard some nasty cracking sounds which turned out to be an 
early indicator of the balsa rot issues in Calypso's deck.  We also broke part 
of the roller furler torque tube.



>From that high wind race I got a great T-shirt, sea story, and confirmation of 
>the 43's heavy weather performance.  I also dug the #4 headsail out of storage 
>to have on board for the next race/delivery with a high wind forecast.



Martin

Calypso

1971 C 43

Seattle




From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of dwight veinot via 
CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 6:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

One season I started early and just left the main reefed even when I packed up 
at the end of a sail. We get stiff wind here in early May. Anyway with Alianna 
I now prefer full main and furled genoa 135 to 120 then to110 and mine works ok 
furled to 100% with no change of lead points. If that's still too much for 
comfort the genoa gets rolled up all the way and just full main alone. Racing 
is different as the amount of sail you can carry is a function of weight on the 
windward rail; crew weight. Never really had enough on Alianna but I would love 
to try her with 6 or 8 agile 200 pounders up there; then I am using a 150 up 
front and ready to do sail changes.
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

“toe rail getting buried” might not be the best indicator. 

 

To bury the toe rail on my 38 takes over 33 degrees of heel. And the boat is
at its best with 18 to 20. 25 degrees of heel still leaves the toe rail
about a foot out of the water.

 

Now my 25 is different. There is less free board so 25 degrees of heal puts
the toe rail just about in the water. But the boat is still faster and more
comfortable with only about 20 degrees on her.

 

If I am in a hurry, when I get to about 15 degrees of heel, and presuming
there are no white faces and white knuckles among the guests, I will start
doing the other things you suggest: dropping the traveler, flattening the
main or easing the vang & sheet to twist off the head, changing course a
bit, etc. If that doesn’t cut it, it is time to reef. And white faces and
white knuckles mean reefing even earlier.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ &
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 1:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody <russ...@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

 


Dwight's content should not be missed. 
Crew weight is as important as apparent wind speed & angle and maybe even
include time to destination or course change for deciding "when to reef".

For me, a simple observation "is the toe-rail getting buried" is the
tell-tale. If she can't be put back on 'er feet by dropping the traveller,
flattening the main or easing the vang & sheet to twist off the head,
changing course a bit, getting some "wellies to weather" then it's time to
reef.

Let the toe-rail be your guide. This goes for any size of our boats, they
are not initially tender so it is not fast or comfortable to sail "on yur
ear".

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Vancouver Island

At 06:26 AM 13/02/2016, you wrote:



One season I started early and just left the main reefed even when I packed
up at the end of a sail. We get stiff wind here in early May. Anyway with
Alianna I now prefer full main and furled genoa 135 to 120 then to110 and
mine works ok furled to 100% with no change of lead points. If that's still
too much for comfort the genoa gets rolled up all the way and just full
main alone. Racing is different as the amount of sail you can carry is a
function of weight on the windward rail; crew weight. Never really had
enough on Alianna but I would love to try her with 6 or 8 agile 200 pounders
up there; then I am using a 150 up front and ready to do sail changes. 





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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for backing me up on this.

It's a good thread and we got enough information 
to conclude there is no simple "time to reef" and 
there is a pile of good tricks to forestall tucking in a reef.


Sometimes, the best time to reef is as you 
express with using angle of heel as the indicator 
to gain the best speed and comfort. However, 
there are times on the race course, with the 45', 
where I will not call for a reef if the windward 
mark can be seen. It is often quicker to carry 
on, with a crew of  6 - 9 and recalling the statement,
"The chance for mistakes is about equal to the 
number of crew squared."  -  Ted Turner


And I hope my point was not interpreted by anyone 
as: "reef when the toe-rail in in the water".
That is not the same as: "if your toe-rail is in 
then water, it's time to reef."


"Any fool can carry on, but a wise man knows how 
to shorten sail in time." -  Joseph Conrad


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Vancouver Island




At 01:39 PM 13/02/2016, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_0006_01D1667D.14003C80"
Content-Language: en-us

“toe rail getting buried” might not be the best indicator.

To bury the toe rail on my 38 takes over 33 
degrees of heel. And the boat is at its best 
with 18 to 20. 25 degrees of heel still leaves 
the toe rail about a foot out of the water.


Now my 25 is different. There is less free board 
so 25 degrees of heal puts the toe rail just 
about in the water. But the boat is still faster 
and more comfortable with only about 20 degrees on her.


If I am in a hurry, when I get to about 15 
degrees of heel, and presuming there are no 
white faces and white knuckles among the guests, 
I will start doing the other things you suggest: 
dropping the traveler, flattening the main or 
easing the vang & sheet to twist off the head, 
changing course a bit, etc. If that doesn’t cut 
it, it is time to reef. And white faces and 
white knuckles mean reefing even earlier.


Rick Brass
Imzadi  C 38 mk 2
la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1
Washington, NC



From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & Melody via CnC-List

Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 1:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody <russ...@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2


Dwight's content should not be missed.
Crew weight is as important as apparent wind 
speed & angle and maybe even include time to 
destination or course change for deciding "when to reef".


For me, a simple observation "is the toe-rail 
getting buried" is the tell-tale. If she can't 
be put back on 'er feet by dropping the 
traveller, flattening the main or easing the 
vang & sheet to twist off the head, changing 
course a bit, getting some "wellies to weather" then it's time to reef.


Let the toe-rail be your guide. This goes for 
any size of our boats, they are not initially 
tender so it is not fast or comfortable to sail "on yur ear".


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Vancouver Island

At 06:26 AM 13/02/2016, you wrote:

One season I started early and just left the 
main reefed even when I packed up at the end of 
a sail. We get stiff wind here in early May. 
Anyway with Alianna I now prefer full main and 
furled genoa 135 to 120 then to110 and mine 
works ok furled to 100% with no change of lead 
points. If that's still too much for comfort the 
genoa gets rolled up all the way and just full 
main alone. Racing is different as the amount of 
sail you can carry is a function of weight on 
the windward rail; crew weight. Never really had 
enough on Alianna but I would love to try her 
with 6 or 8 agile 200 pounders up there; then I 
am using a 150 up front and ready to do sail changes.Â




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Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[robert via CnC-List]

Doug:

Their is no one or simple answer on when to reef a C 33 MKII 
.depends on several factors.are you racing the boat or just 
cruising.  Do you do head sail changes or just keep one on the roller 
furler?  If one on the roller furler, what size is it..150%, 135%, 
100%?  Are you an experienced sailor or have you recently entered the 
sport?


Some years back, we raced a C 33 MKII extensively.most of the 
races were in wind conditions under 25 knts true.therefore, many 
days, depending on the conditions, we would reduce the size of the 
headsail before we reefed the main sail.


Nevertheless, from memory, the crew would start the discussio about 
reefing the main when the true wind reached 18 to 20 knts.   If the true 
wind held between 18 to 20 knts, we might sail with the #2..if the 
wind was above 20 knts true, we would reef and hoist the #3.


My last sail in the Fall of 2015 with Dwight on my 32, we were in about 
16 knts true and had a full main and 100% and our speed on the GPS was 
7.1 to 7.3 knts to weather..the boat was standing up quite nicely 
and it was a comfortable ride.  The C 33 MK II will sail every bit as 
good or better.


Trusting this helps.  Most important thing is to have fun.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.




On 2016-02-10 9:42 PM, Doug Welch via CnC-List wrote:
Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for 
input on when folks start to reef.



Cheers,
Doug


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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Are we talking true or apparent wind speeds with respect to when to reef?

If I am just out for an easy cruise which I start before noon with the
full main and 130 RF genoa, often times rather than reef the main I
just get rid of the furling genoa when the afternoon wind pipes up.
When the wind approaches 18-20 kts apparent my 35 MKII is really
comfortable under main alone and gets close to 6 kts to weather,
that's nice cruising with no jib sheets to mess up the cockpit,
especially convenient with new comers on board who may not appreciate
higher angles of heel or for 2 old guys just looking to enjoy the day
going nowhere special, just the boat sailing us around by itself with
minimal input from me, All sail control like tacking and jibing is
much easier under main alone...Robert and I do this often, we are the
2 old guys just looking to enjoy the day.

If f I want to get that extra power and pointing ability from the
genoa I find reefing the main (1st reef) is a benefit above 17 kts
apparent...Alianna is set up for reefing from the cockpit...contrary
to some approaches I prefer to stay in the cockpit so I have all sail
control lines led aft except for spinn halyard but even with that I am
sometimes lazy and go with a fisherman's reef or just foot off to a
more pleasant rdie
Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net



On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 11:02 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> There's no simple answer to this (it's something you may just have to find
> your own preferences for) but the common answer is around 15 knots - or wait
> till 20 knots, but you'll probably be compensating for over-canvasing at
> that point (traveled way down, dumping wind, pinching up in gusts, etc).
>
> You can check out this thread from the archives where I asked a similar
> question last year:
> http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2015-August/077522.html
>
> I tend to not reef until 20 kts, because in the PNW if it gets to 15-20 kts
> in a northerly (high pressure zone), it's typically only for 10 minutes or
> so, so it's not worth bothering to reef - it'll be back down to its normal
> 10-15 in a few minutes.
>
> Also makes a big difference whether you have a wind speed instrument or not.
> If not, you're guesstimating wind speed and are going to need to use other
> signs as well - like weather helm.
>
> -Patrick
> 1984 C Landfall 38
> Seattle, WA
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 6:00 PM, <cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: <doug.we...@rogers.com>
>> To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 01:42:17 + (UTC)
>> Subject: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
>> Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for
>> input on when folks start to reef.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doug
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

I'm a fan of keeping the boat pretty flat, so I usually reef my 33 at about 
13kn if i know its blowing that before I head out.

If i'm already out, i'll wait until around 15 kn before doing the main but will 
usually furl in the genoa a bit before that.

The wind on Lake Ontario is rarely steady, so a 12-15 kn breeze usually has 
gusts to 18-20.

Mike
Atacama 33mkii 
Toronto 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[David via CnC-List]

When you first think of it...

David F. Risch
1981  40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:53:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: amira...@eastlink.ca





If I am by myself, flying a 130 genoa, I will reef the main at about 15kts, 
makes for a much more comfortable ride. If I’m lazy, I’ll just fly the genoa 
without main and still have plenty speed.
 
Mike Amirault
C  Lovely Cruise
St Margarets Bay, NS 
SMSC

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Kurt Heckert via CnC-List]

I teach my students to reef as soon as they think about it, they are probably 
right. It is hard to come up with hard rules about when to reef when different 
boats and sailors have very different comfort levels.___

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

When stuff starts falling over in the galley. Main first, hate to put a
wrinkle in my new genny.

Steve
Suhana, C 32
Toronto

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:29 AM, David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> When you first think of it...
>
> David F. Risch
> 1981  40-2
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:53:09 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: amira...@eastlink.ca
>
>
> If I am by myself, flying a 130 genoa, I will reef the main at about
> 15kts, makes for a much more comfortable ride. If I’m lazy, I’ll just fly
> the genoa without main and still have plenty speed.
>
> Mike Amirault
> C  Lovely Cruise
> St Margarets Bay, NS
> SMSC
>
> ___ Email address:
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

On my 35/3 when cruising, 18 knots apparent I'll reef the main with the
135.  She sails faster at less than 20 degrees heel.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> When stuff starts falling over in the galley. Main first, hate to put a
> wrinkle in my new genny.
>
> Steve
> Suhana, C 32
> Toronto
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:29 AM, David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>> When you first think of it...
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> 1981  40-2
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
>> ------
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:53:09 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> CC: amira...@eastlink.ca
>>
>>
>> If I am by myself, flying a 130 genoa, I will reef the main at about
>> 15kts, makes for a much more comfortable ride. If I’m lazy, I’ll just fly
>> the genoa without main and still have plenty speed.
>>
>> Mike Amirault
>> C  Lovely Cruise
>> St Margarets Bay, NS
>> SMSC
>>
>> ___ Email address:
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>> unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:
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>
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

Reef at the dock much?

At 06:08 AM 2/11/2016, you wrote:

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 20:41:04 -0600
From: "Dennis C." <capt...@gmail.com>
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

I reef when my beer falls over.  :)

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


Tom Buscaglia
SV Alera
1990 C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
(206) 463-9200
www.sv-alera.com
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I reef when my beer falls over.  :)

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Mike Amirault via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> If I am by myself, flying a 130 genoa, I will reef the main at about
> 15kts, makes for a much more comfortable ride. If I’m lazy, I’ll just fly
> the genoa without main and still have plenty speed.
>
> Mike Amirault
> C  Lovely Cruise
> St Margarets Bay, NS
> SMSC
>
> ___
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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

There's no simple answer to this (it's something you may just have to find
your own preferences for) but the common answer is around 15 knots - or
wait till 20 knots, but you'll probably be compensating for over-canvasing
at that point (traveled way down, dumping wind, pinching up in gusts, etc).

You can check out this thread from the archives where I asked a similar
question last year:
http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2015-August/077522.html

I tend to not reef until 20 kts, because in the PNW if it gets to 15-20 kts
in a northerly (high pressure zone), it's typically only for 10 minutes or
so, so it's not worth bothering to reef - it'll be back down to its normal
10-15 in a few minutes.

Also makes a big difference whether you have a wind speed instrument or
not. If not, you're guesstimating wind speed and are going to need to use
other signs as well - like weather helm.

-Patrick
1984 C Landfall 38
Seattle, WA

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 6:00 PM, <cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> From: <doug.we...@rogers.com>
> To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 01:42:17 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2
> Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for
> input on when folks start to reef.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>
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Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Doug Welch via CnC-List]

Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for input on 
when folks start to reef.

Cheers,Doug___

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Mike Amirault via CnC-List]

If I am by myself, flying a 130 genoa, I will reef the main at about 15kts, 
makes for a much more comfortable ride. If I’m lazy, I’ll just fly the genoa 
without main and still have plenty speed.

Mike Amirault
C  Lovely Cruise
St Margarets Bay, NS 
SMSC___

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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Depends on if you are racing or cruising, sea state, wind conditions and what 
headsail you are using – to say nothing of what the Admiral will tolerate.  If 
you are consistently heeling more that 10 or 15 degrees, it is time to think 
about reducing sail.  One way to do that is size the headsail appropriately.  
If it is too big, the start reefing.  Reefing early is better than waiting



Just experiment – it will become self evident very quickly



John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Doug Welch 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:42 PM
To: C List
Cc: doug.we...@rogers.com
Subject: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2



Can't wait for spring to get out on our (new to us) 33-2. Looking for input on 
when folks start to reef.





Cheers,

Doug



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