Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Maybe the knurling would help but 1/2 inch sheets would help too and if you
use slippery braid for sheets it will work better after it gets weathered
for a few seasons, alternatively buy 1/2 inch lines made to be used as
genoa sheets

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:04 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self
> tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to
> bring the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the
> Barient, and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC
> instead of the 1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high
> winds?  I found something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was
> adjustable with spacers, but I can’t find that in the parts diagram I have,
> so I don’t know if it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had
> the same problem with the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the
> mainsheet which also now has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just
> slippery and this is a characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I have 3/8" Maxibraid sheets and use Barient 27STs, when racing solo. If I race 
w crew we use Barient 28 non selftailing but one crew tails keeping the line 
low while the grinder faces forward, one foot on the toerail and the other in 
cockpit, chest over winch, grinding hard and fast, w both hands on the handle. 
I have 4 wraps in winds above 10 knots and 6 wraps in 20+. My 21s and 27s have 
springs on the self tailer that adjust to from small line up to 9/16". 

I suspect you were well powered up and heeled beyond a good sailing angle. 
A smaller jib in those winds would have pointed higher and been easier and 
quicker to tack. Curious how many in crew and what your heel and speed were, if 
you reefed the main? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "CnC CnC discussion list" <CnC-List@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "David Knecht" <davidakne...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2015 9:04:52 AM 
Subject: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem 

We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self 
tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to bring 
the genoa in all the way. I cannot find a line specification for the Barient, 
and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC instead of the 
1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high winds? I found something 
from Barient that said that the self-tailer was adjustable with spacers, but I 
can’t find that in the parts diagram I have, so I don’t know if it is true and 
whether I need to change spacing. I had the same problem with the Barient 
self-tailing winch we were using for the mainsheet which also now has a 
slightly down sized VPC. Is VPC just slippery and this is a characteristic of 
that line? Thanks- Dave 

Aries 
1990 C 34+ 
New London, CT 



___ 

Email address: 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at: 
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 


___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

VPC is slippery.  I switched to VPC couple years ago for genoa sheets and
found 1-2 additional wraps were needed depending on wind strength.  I have
Barlow 28 non-ST's.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:04 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self
> tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to
> bring the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the
> Barient, and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC
> instead of the 1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high
> winds?  I found something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was
> adjustable with spacers, but I can’t find that in the parts diagram I have,
> so I don’t know if it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had
> the same problem with the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the
> mainsheet which also now has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just
> slippery and this is a characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

L-36.com has the manuals. There should be 3 screws you can tighten on the
tailer.

Joel

On Monday, October 5, 2015, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> VPC is slippery.  I switched to VPC couple years ago for genoa sheets and
> found 1-2 additional wraps were needed depending on wind strength.  I have
> Barlow 28 non-ST's.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:04 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>> We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self
>> tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to
>> bring the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the
>> Barient, and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC
>> instead of the 1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high
>> winds?  I found something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was
>> adjustable with spacers, but I can’t find that in the parts diagram I have,
>> so I don’t know if it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had
>> the same problem with the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the
>> mainsheet which also now has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just
>> slippery and this is a characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self 
tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to bring 
the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the Barient, 
and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC instead of the 
1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high winds?  I found 
something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was adjustable with 
spacers, but I can’t find that in the parts diagram I have, so I don’t know if 
it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had the same problem with 
the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the mainsheet which also now 
has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just slippery and this is a 
characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I went to 3/8 VPC for spin halyards to save weight. The knobby surface
provides good hand grip. The line locks well in the clutch.

I tried 7/16 for jib sheets and also found them a bit slippery. The other issue
is we broke the core on one line earlier this year. The core - core eye splice
was fine, the break occurred a bit back of where the tail was buried in what
I will assume was undisturbed core. Might also line up with the Harken Jib
car sheave, which is over sized for 7/16 line.

I would think that 7/16 is fine for a 30-1, though we do carry the 155% up
to higher wind speeds than some boats. It is a North 3Di which is considered
to be low stretch. We do not let if flog but I suppose with gusts there could
be shock load.

I have wondered with lines that have a slippery cover if there is some issue
with it sliding over the core, say as it rounds a sheave. I understand that the
core effectively carries the load, but if the cover is carrying anything that
could cause a stress point.

I switched to Maffioli Powergrip 10 mm. So far it seems perfect. Runs nicely on 
tacks,
lots of grip by hand and around the winch. Lowest stretch I have had for jib 
sheets
so the trim stays constant during gusts.

I spliced in an eye splice around Tylaska J Locks. Splice was OK, a bit hard to 
bury
the cover.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

  

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:04:52 -0400 
From: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com> 
To: CnC CnC discussion list <CnC-List@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem 
Message-ID: <4d6b4bb1-0d12-4405-b7be-982132216...@gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" 
 
We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self 
tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to bring 
the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the Barient, 
and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC instead of the 
1/2? that was original. Is this to be expected in high winds?  I found 
something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was adjustable with 
spacers, but I can?t find that in the parts diagram I have, so I don?t know if 
it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had the same problem with 
the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the mainsheet which also now 
has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just slippery and this is a 
characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave 
 
Aries 
1990 C 34+ 
New London, CT 
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Knurling is the process by which texture is given to metal.  Usually metal
handles of wrenches and hammers or other tools will be knurled with a
cross-hatched pattern.  There are lots of options and harshnesses which can
be chosen by the machinist.

I'm not particularly familiar with the best line for friction but I would
start with something cheap like stay-set.  With a little work you can
probably bury the end nearest the clew.  I probably wouldn't sleeve the
whole line since it seems you'd loose some or all of the advantage of the
new high-tech line.  Since the sleeve and original jib sheet will have
different elasticities I would consider allowing the sheet to "float" at
the tailing end...just a thought.

The machine shop I use is in Lusby, MD and right around the corner from my
house.  The guy is extremely knowledgeable and runs a great business out of
his garage.  He calls the place "Machine Shop".  His name is Harry Langly
an goes by HL.  Email him at marsurl...@comcast.net or call at (410)
326-2001.  Email might be better since he had an accident years ago that
affects his voice.

Josh
On Oct 5, 2015 10:30 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi Josh- great info!
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> The screws which Joel mentioned are, from my experience, a type of cap
> screw.  You might want to remove them one at a time and lube them with
> tef-gel, or anti-seeze.  If they get stuck they break.  If they are over
> torqued they break.  If they are not fully tightened or the springs are old
> or the line is too small of a diameter then line won't stay in.
>
> As long a the above three conditions are met then the problem you are
> having is with the friction on the drum.  It sounds like those three
> conditions are met since you only experienced this problem in heavy winds.
> As mentioned extra wraps should help add friction.  Additionally a machine
> shop can re-knurl the drum.  You can also add a sleeve to the jib sheet.
> If you have the crew to do so, try having them not use the self-tailer to
> winch in on the tacks.  See how much pressure the tailer needs to apply
> before the winch slips.  The tailer should only have to apply moderate
> tension.  If they are really pulling you need another wrap (or 2).  If you
> have 4 or 5 wraps and the winch still slips then you need more friction.
> Sleeving the sheet is probably a little cheaper and will make the line
> better on the hand.  You can also do it yourself.  If you still find that
> it takes 4 or more wraps I would start looking for a machine shop.  I have
> one in mind if you are interested.
>
> We had 4 wraps on the drum so I am thinking friction on the drum.  I don’t
> know what re-knurling means and don’t know if any shop would know how to do
> this. Also, I have not found a good machine shop in my area.  What shop did
> you have in mind?  What would you sleeve the sheet with?  Dave
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> ___
>
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

David,

The screws which Joel mentioned are, from my experience, a type of cap
screw.  You might want to remove them one at a time and lube them with
tef-gel, or anti-seeze.  If they get stuck they break.  If they are over
torqued they break.  If they are not fully tightened or the springs are old
or the line is too small of a diameter then line won't stay in.

As long a the above three conditions are met then the problem you are
having is with the friction on the drum.  It sounds like those three
conditions are met since you only experienced this problem in heavy winds.
As mentioned extra wraps should help add friction.  Additionally a machine
shop can re-knurl the drum.  You can also add a sleeve to the jib sheet.
If you have the crew to do so, try having them not use the self-tailer to
winch in on the tacks.  See how much pressure the tailer needs to apply
before the winch slips.  The tailer should only have to apply moderate
tension.  If they are really pulling you need another wrap (or 2).  If you
have 4 or 5 wraps and the winch still slips then you need more friction.
Sleeving the sheet is probably a little cheaper and will make the line
better on the hand.  You can also do it yourself.  If you still find that
it takes 4 or more wraps I would start looking for a machine shop.  I have
one in mind if you are interested.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Oct 5, 2015 9:05 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self
> tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to
> bring the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the
> Barient, and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC
> instead of the 1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high
> winds?  I found something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was
> adjustable with spacers, but I can’t find that in the parts diagram I have,
> so I don’t know if it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had
> the same problem with the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the
> mainsheet which also now has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just
> slippery and this is a characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Josh- great info!
On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
wrote:

> David,
> 
> The screws which Joel mentioned are, from my experience, a type of cap screw. 
>  You might want to remove them one at a time and lube them with tef-gel, or 
> anti-seeze.  If they get stuck they break.  If they are over torqued they 
> break.  If they are not fully tightened or the springs are old or the line is 
> too small of a diameter then line won't stay in.
> 
> As long a the above three conditions are met then the problem you are having 
> is with the friction on the drum.  It sounds like those three conditions are 
> met since you only experienced this problem in heavy winds.  As mentioned 
> extra wraps should help add friction.  Additionally a machine shop can 
> re-knurl the drum.  You can also add a sleeve to the jib sheet.  If you have 
> the crew to do so, try having them not use the self-tailer to winch in on the 
> tacks.  See how much pressure the tailer needs to apply before the winch 
> slips.  The tailer should only have to apply moderate tension.  If they are 
> really pulling you need another wrap (or 2).  If you have 4 or 5 wraps and 
> the winch still slips then you need more friction.  Sleeving the sheet is 
> probably a little cheaper and will make the line better on the hand.  You can 
> also do it yourself.  If you still find that it takes 4 or more wraps I would 
> start looking for a machine shop.  I have one in mind if you are interested.
> 
We had 4 wraps on the drum so I am thinking friction on the drum.  I don’t know 
what re-knurling means and don’t know if any shop would know how to do this. 
Also, I have not found a good machine shop in my area.  What shop did you have 
in mind?  What would you sleeve the sheet with?  Dave

> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> ___

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Oh yeah I almost forgot.  Your winches are most likely shot... You should
give them to me so that they can be properly disposed of .

In all seriousness, keep me in mind if you decide to "upgrade".

Josh
On Oct 5, 2015 9:05 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self
> tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to
> bring the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the
> Barient, and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC
> instead of the 1/2” that was original. Is this to be expected in high
> winds?  I found something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was
> adjustable with spacers, but I can’t find that in the parts diagram I have,
> so I don’t know if it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had
> the same problem with the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the
> mainsheet which also now has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just
> slippery and this is a characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Still have old sheets?  Try them.  I suspect the VPC is slightly small and it 
is very slippery in my experience.
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi.



-Original Message-
From: David Knecht via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: CnC CnC discussion list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 10:30 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem


Hi Josh- great info!

On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:


David, 
The screws which Joel mentioned are, from my experience, a type of cap screw.  
You might want to remove them one at a time and lube them with tef-gel, or 
anti-seeze.  If they get stuck they break.  If they are over torqued they 
break.  If they are not fully tightened or the springs are old or the line is 
too small of a diameter then line won't stay in.
As long a the above three conditions are met then the problem you are having is 
with the friction on the drum.  It sounds like those three conditions are met 
since you only experienced this problem in heavy winds.  As mentioned extra 
wraps should help add friction.  Additionally a machine shop can re-knurl the 
drum.  You can also add a sleeve to the jib sheet.  If you have the crew to do 
so, try having them not use the self-tailer to winch in on the tacks.  See how 
much pressure the tailer needs to apply before the winch slips.  The tailer 
should only have to apply moderate tension.  If they are really pulling you 
need another wrap (or 2).  If you have 4 or 5 wraps and the winch still slips 
then you need more friction.  Sleeving the sheet is probably a little cheaper 
and will make the line better on the hand.  You can also do it yourself.  If 
you still find that it takes 4 or more wraps I would start looking for a 
machine shop.  I have one in mind if you are interested.

We had 4 wraps on the drum so I am thinking friction on the drum.  I don’t know 
what re-knurling means and don’t know if any shop would know how to do this. 
Also, I have not found a good machine shop in my area.  What shop did you have 
in mind?  What would you sleeve the sheet with?  Dave



Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

___




Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT





___

Email
address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including
unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com


 
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Charles Nelson via CnC-List]

If your winches have seen a lot of use, I suggest you have them knurled.

Mine (Lewmar STs #30 and #50) had ~ 15 years of use and I had them re-knurled 
with a simple vertical 'scoring' pattern of 'medium' harshness for $30 each. 
Too much 'harshness' will chew up your line.

They now hold as if new although in a breeze we always use more wraps.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36XL/kcb

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Knurling is the process by which texture is given to metal.  Usually metal 
> handles of wrenches and hammers or other tools will be knurled with a 
> cross-hatched pattern.  There are lots of options and harshnesses which can 
> be chosen by the machinist.
> 
> I'm not particularly familiar with the best line for friction but I would 
> start with something cheap like stay-set.  With a little work you can 
> probably bury the end nearest the clew.  I probably wouldn't sleeve the whole 
> line since it seems you'd loose some or all of the advantage of the new 
> high-tech line.  Since the sleeve and original jib sheet will have different 
> elasticities I would consider allowing the sheet to "float" at the tailing 
> end...just a thought.
> 
> The machine shop I use is in Lusby, MD and right around the corner from my 
> house.  The guy is extremely knowledgeable and runs a great business out of 
> his garage.  He calls the place "Machine Shop".  His name is Harry Langly an 
> goes by HL.  Email him at marsurl...@comcast.net or call at (410) 326-2001.  
> Email might be better since he had an accident years ago that affects his 
> voice.
> 
> Josh
> 
>> On Oct 5, 2015 10:30 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List"  
>> wrote:
>> Hi Josh- great info!
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> The screws which Joel mentioned are, from my experience, a type of cap 
>>> screw.  You might want to remove them one at a time and lube them with 
>>> tef-gel, or anti-seeze.  If they get stuck they break.  If they are over 
>>> torqued they break.  If they are not fully tightened or the springs are old 
>>> or the line is too small of a diameter then line won't stay in.
>>> 
>>> As long a the above three conditions are met then the problem you are 
>>> having is with the friction on the drum.  It sounds like those three 
>>> conditions are met since you only experienced this problem in heavy winds.  
>>> As mentioned extra wraps should help add friction.  Additionally a machine 
>>> shop can re-knurl the drum.  You can also add a sleeve to the jib sheet.  
>>> If you have the crew to do so, try having them not use the self-tailer to 
>>> winch in on the tacks.  See how much pressure the tailer needs to apply 
>>> before the winch slips.  The tailer should only have to apply moderate 
>>> tension.  If they are really pulling you need another wrap (or 2).  If you 
>>> have 4 or 5 wraps and the winch still slips then you need more friction.  
>>> Sleeving the sheet is probably a little cheaper and will make the line 
>>> better on the hand.  You can also do it yourself.  If you still find that 
>>> it takes 4 or more wraps I would start looking for a machine shop.  I have 
>>> one in mind if you are interested.
>>> 
>> We had 4 wraps on the drum so I am thinking friction on the drum.  I don’t 
>> know what re-knurling means and don’t know if any shop would know how to do 
>> this. Also, I have not found a good machine shop in my area.  What shop did 
>> you have in mind?  What would you sleeve the sheet with?  Dave
>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>> 
>>> ___
>> 
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Here is a link to the diagram.  4 screws, not 3.

http://l-36.com/winches_pages.php?winch=bar28_stw.htm

I have 7/16 Sta-Set.  3 wraps and the tailer does not slip.  The drums are
smooth aluminum.

Joel

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Charles Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> If your winches have seen a lot of use, I suggest you have them knurled.
>
> Mine (Lewmar STs #30 and #50) had ~ 15 years of use and I had them
> re-knurled with a simple vertical 'scoring' pattern of 'medium' harshness
> for $30 each. Too much 'harshness' will chew up your line.
>
> They now hold as if new although in a breeze we always use more wraps.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C 36XL/kcb
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Knurling is the process by which texture is given to metal.  Usually metal
> handles of wrenches and hammers or other tools will be knurled with a
> cross-hatched pattern.  There are lots of options and harshnesses which can
> be chosen by the machinist.
>
> I'm not particularly familiar with the best line for friction but I would
> start with something cheap like stay-set.  With a little work you can
> probably bury the end nearest the clew.  I probably wouldn't sleeve the
> whole line since it seems you'd loose some or all of the advantage of the
> new high-tech line.  Since the sleeve and original jib sheet will have
> different elasticities I would consider allowing the sheet to "float" at
> the tailing end...just a thought.
>
> The machine shop I use is in Lusby, MD and right around the corner from my
> house.  The guy is extremely knowledgeable and runs a great business out of
> his garage.  He calls the place "Machine Shop".  His name is Harry Langly
> an goes by HL.  Email him at marsurl...@comcast.net or call at (410)
> 326-2001.  Email might be better since he had an accident years ago that
> affects his voice.
>
> Josh
> On Oct 5, 2015 10:30 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh- great info!
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> The screws which Joel mentioned are, from my experience, a type of cap
>> screw.  You might want to remove them one at a time and lube them with
>> tef-gel, or anti-seeze.  If they get stuck they break.  If they are over
>> torqued they break.  If they are not fully tightened or the springs are old
>> or the line is too small of a diameter then line won't stay in.
>>
>> As long a the above three conditions are met then the problem you are
>> having is with the friction on the drum.  It sounds like those three
>> conditions are met since you only experienced this problem in heavy winds.
>> As mentioned extra wraps should help add friction.  Additionally a machine
>> shop can re-knurl the drum.  You can also add a sleeve to the jib sheet.
>> If you have the crew to do so, try having them not use the self-tailer to
>> winch in on the tacks.  See how much pressure the tailer needs to apply
>> before the winch slips.  The tailer should only have to apply moderate
>> tension.  If they are really pulling you need another wrap (or 2).  If you
>> have 4 or 5 wraps and the winch still slips then you need more friction.
>> Sleeving the sheet is probably a little cheaper and will make the line
>> better on the hand.  You can also do it yourself.  If you still find that
>> it takes 4 or more wraps I would start looking for a machine shop.  I have
>> one in mind if you are interested.
>>
>> We had 4 wraps on the drum so I am thinking friction on the drum.  I
>> don’t know what re-knurling means and don’t know if any shop would know how
>> to do this. Also, I have not found a good machine shop in my area.  What
>> shop did you have in mind?  What would you sleeve the sheet with?  Dave
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> ___
>>
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including