Re: EULA presentation requirements?
Doesn't ELLA stand for end-user LICENSE agreement, aren't such licenses prohibited per the clear language in the agreement as outlined? My rule, if you have a question about it, don't. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone Original message From: Rick Mann rm...@latencyzero.com Date:02/10/2014 7:53 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com Cc: cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Dev cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: EULA presentation requirements? Yeah, we found those. Thanks! On Feb 10, 2014, at 17:51 , Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:39 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Ooops, sorry I wasn't clear. This is an iOS app (distributed through the App Store). I can't find similar language in https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guidelines.html Those say: • 10.1 Apps must comply with all terms and conditions explained in the Apple iOS Human Interface Guidelines The HIGs https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/mobilehig/StartingStopping.html say: As much as possible, avoid displaying a splash screen or other startup experience. If possible, avoid requiring users to read a disclaimer or agree to an end-user license agreement when they first start your app. So, those guidelines are not as cut-and-dry as the Mac App Store guidelines. They provide sufficient wiggle room for your management to latch onto, if they are determined. But hopefully they discourage them from presenting an at-launch EULA, instead. Regards, Ken -- Rick ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On 10 Feb 2014, at 10:25 PM, rick.langschultz rick.langschu...@me.com wrote: Doesn't [EULA] stand for end-user LICENSE agreement, aren't such licenses prohibited per the clear language in the agreement as outlined? My rule, if you have a question about it, don't. I must not be clear on your meaning. First, the review guidelines cited refer to the iOS Human Interface Guidelines, which relate to user experience, not the behavior or legal affairs of the app in general (those are covered by the review guidelines themselves and the terms-of-use for iTunes Connect). The HI guidelines certainly discourage (I’d forbid) withholding the value of your app by loading it up with advertising (splash screens), tap-through disclaimers, and EULA notices. But developer-specific EULAs, as such, are certainly not forbidden; indeed, they are supported. The iTunes Connect registration process allows developers to substitute their own licenses for those in the iTunes Terms and Conditions, so long as they afford Apple no less protection than it demands for itself. Custom EULAs are displayed in the purchase process. Maybe that’s what you meant to say. I would not consider adopting a custom EULA without including it in the iTunes Connect registration — you’d likely be bound by the iTunes EULA rather than your own. You can have different ones for different jurisdictions, or forbid distribution in jurisdictions for which you can’t provide a EULA. (In other words, don’t indulge the hope that a German EULA will work in Saudi Arabia — look back in this thread.) It’s also a good idea to have an “about” popover/view that presents the EULA for inspection (without forcing it onto the screen), or at least a prominent link to the current EULA (consult counsel on how to go about changing the license on existing purchasers). — F -- Xcode 5 Start to Finish — crafted by artisans for your enlightenment. April 2014. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On 10 Feb 2014, at 7:36 PM, SevenBits sevenbitst...@gmail.com wrote: What's funny is that Xcode - distributed through the Mac App Store - does show a license screen at first launch. This would mean that Apple is breaking its own rules, if in fact that clause means what you say. Old Latin aphorism, which has applied to Apple-platform development since 1984: “Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi.” “What is permitted to the Father of Gods is not for the cattle.” Apple has _always_ adopted human-interface elements that are unsupported by the SDK, or forbidden by its HIGs. --- As for the EULA (and we have experience only with the iOS App Store), look up the iTunes Terms and Conditions. http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/ww/. It includes a EULA with more-or-less standard disclaimers along the lines of “if the app kills your children, we’ll refund the cost of purchase.” You’ll also notice that there are some 150 TC statements. U.S. common law, Vietnamese Communism, and Saudi Shari’a are apt to have different requirements for the written language of contracts and the substance of disclaimers of liability. When I pointed this out to our intellectual-property office, which wanted a custom EULA, they required the app’s distribution be limited to the United States. (They later relented, which was a relief when we got to a reader for the French Encyclopédie and various readers and dictionaries for Classical Greek. There are rather a lot of francophone jurisdictions.) Turn the U.S. Terms and Conditions over to your management, and see if they can live with it, especially compared to giving up international distribution (which prudence dictates you’d have to). — F ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
EULA presentation requirements?
Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? -- Rick signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On Monday, February 10, 2014, Rick Mann rm...@latencyzero.com wrote: Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. My opinion is, while it may be annoying, it puts the user upfront with your EULA. In some other installation methods, like installers on Windows or OS X's own Installer.app, the user can easily skip the EULA to actually get to the important part, the install. In my opinion, this is worse than simply displaying a pop up box prompting the user to agree to the EULA. At least this way you make it clear that this is important as opposed to just another install step that can be skipped. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? I use either an EULA supplied by the App Store or I present it to the user during install or first launch. Another thing I do sometimes is license under widely known terms (I.e BSD license) and then say, this software is under the BSD license, go look it up if you want to read it. This is simple, straightforward, and the user doesn't need to do anything if they're already familiar with the terms of the license. -- Rick ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? It's not clear to me if you want this for an app distributed through the App Store or outside of it. If through the App Store, it's prohibited. From https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html: • 2.20 Apps that present a license screen at launch will be rejected Regards, Ken ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
Perfect, Ken, thank you! On Feb 10, 2014, at 17:27 , Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? It's not clear to me if you want this for an app distributed through the App Store or outside of it. If through the App Store, it's prohibited. From https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html: • 2.20 Apps that present a license screen at launch will be rejected Regards, Ken -- Rick signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On Monday, February 10, 2014, Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? It's not clear to me if you want this for an app distributed through the App Store or outside of it. If through the App Store, it's prohibited. From https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html : * 2.20 Apps that present a license screen at launch will be rejected I always interpreted this clause to mean that you can't present a screen asking for a license screen, not a screen showing the EULA. But I suppose that it could be interpreted in this fashion. What's funny is that Xcode - distributed through the Mac App Store - does show a license screen at first launch. This would mean that Apple is breaking its own rules, if in fact that clause means what you say. But yes, the asker should clarify whether this is for the MAS or not. Regards, Ken ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com javascript:;) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/sevenbitstech%40gmail.com This email sent to sevenbitst...@gmail.com javascript:; ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
Ooops, sorry I wasn't clear. This is an iOS app (distributed through the App Store). I can't find similar language in https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guidelines.html On Feb 10, 2014, at 17:27 , Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? It's not clear to me if you want this for an app distributed through the App Store or outside of it. If through the App Store, it's prohibited. From https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html: • 2.20 Apps that present a license screen at launch will be rejected Regards, Ken -- Rick signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On Monday, February 10, 2014, Rick Mann rm...@latencyzero.com wrote: Ooops, sorry I wasn't clear. This is an iOS app (distributed through the App Store). I can't find similar language in https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guidelines.html Then I'd assume that you'll probably be okay, unless Apple functions under the Communist doctrine of everything not permitted is forbidden. On Feb 10, 2014, at 17:27 , Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.comjavascript:; wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Does anyone have any references for the need to present a custom EULA when our app launches (after the user has downloaded it)? I know that Apple and the App Store provide a mechanism for providing a custom EULA, but people in my company are considering requiring the user to agree to it when the app launches. I'd really like to avoid this annoying user experience. I tried googling, but found very little in the way of advice or common practice. What do you guys do? It's not clear to me if you want this for an app distributed through the App Store or outside of it. If through the App Store, it's prohibited. From https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html : * 2.20 Apps that present a license screen at launch will be rejected Regards, Ken -- Rick ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
Yeah, we found those. Thanks! On Feb 10, 2014, at 17:51 , Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:39 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Ooops, sorry I wasn't clear. This is an iOS app (distributed through the App Store). I can't find similar language in https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guidelines.html Those say: • 10.1 Apps must comply with all terms and conditions explained in the Apple iOS Human Interface Guidelines The HIGs https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/mobilehig/StartingStopping.html say: As much as possible, avoid displaying a splash screen or other startup experience. If possible, avoid requiring users to read a disclaimer or agree to an end-user license agreement when they first start your app. So, those guidelines are not as cut-and-dry as the Mac App Store guidelines. They provide sufficient wiggle room for your management to latch onto, if they are determined. But hopefully they discourage them from presenting an at-launch EULA, instead. Regards, Ken -- Rick signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:39 PM, Rick Mann wrote: Ooops, sorry I wasn't clear. This is an iOS app (distributed through the App Store). I can't find similar language in https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guidelines.html Those say: • 10.1 Apps must comply with all terms and conditions explained in the Apple iOS Human Interface Guidelines The HIGs https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/mobilehig/StartingStopping.html say: As much as possible, avoid displaying a splash screen or other startup experience. If possible, avoid requiring users to read a disclaimer or agree to an end-user license agreement when they first start your app. So, those guidelines are not as cut-and-dry as the Mac App Store guidelines. They provide sufficient wiggle room for your management to latch onto, if they are determined. But hopefully they discourage them from presenting an at-launch EULA, instead. Regards, Ken ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: EULA presentation requirements?
On 11 Feb 2014, at 12:36 pm, SevenBits sevenbitst...@gmail.com wrote: This would mean that Apple is breaking its own rules You must be new here! --Graham ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
