Back at moderating
I'm back from vacation (all too soon!) and am moderating the mailing list again. -jsd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Away until Aug 9 - will not be moderating the list
I'll be away on holiday untill April 9th. During this time, I will not be moderating the mailing list. On average, there are about 5 messages a day posted to the Httpclient-dev mailing list, but about 98% of those are spam messages that get filtered out. -jsd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Migrate HttpClient issue tracking from Bugzilla to Jira
- Vote: Migrate HttpClient issue tracking from Bugzilla to Jira [X] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it. [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it. [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal. [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason). - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL][DRAFT] Promote HttpClient to Jakarta level
Just the active ones. You must leave off Sun-gu and Sean, since they don't have CLA on file their committer status has been suspended. I agree with Oleg about the handling of the others. -jsd Should all the committers come across or just the currently active ones? I think this should be all of them, in which case - should we attempt to contact them and ask for their preference? I've currently taken the list from project.xml. The trouble is that 2 of our committers turned out to have not signed the Apache CLA. Some of people included have officially resigned from the project. Some have not been showing up for years. To be fair to ourselves and the PMC who is going to vote on the proposal, I think we should include only active committers. As to currently inactive committers, we should inform them about the move and change of the project status. If they express their willingness to resume/continue working on the project, once the legal aspects are taken care of, their full-fledged committer status can be unconditionally restored. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] suspend use of @author tags
+1 Additionally, we should seek to contact those currently in @author tags that do not have a CLA on file, and ask permission that they be removed or to encourage them to sign a CLA. I'll do this. BTW: If we can't get either of these to things from a contributor (Sean and Sun-Gu at this point) then we will probablly should rewrite any code that can be attributed to them. -jsd Ortwin Glück wrote: +1 Michael Becke wrote: Given the current ambiguity regarding @author tags I propose that we suspend their use for contributors without a CLA on file. This is meant to be a temporary solution until something official is endorsed by the ASF board. Mike -- Vote: Suspend use of @author tags [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason). -- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: Jakarta Board report - March 2004]
Notes to the board from the PMC. Note the mention of the upcoming HttpClient move to Jakarta top level, and the @author comments. -jsd Original Message Subject: Jakarta Board report - March 2004 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:10:43 -0500 From: Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Jakarta Project Management Committee List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Apache Board <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: Jakarta Project Management Committee List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Board, The Jakarta community would like to mention an official thanks and warm and heartfelt appreciation to our outgoing chair, Sam Ruby. We recognize that he was instrumental in guiding it through a sometimes difficult period of high growth, and we all value his considerate and thoughtful contributions. Jakarta Project Report - March 2004 --- * As the board is obviously aware, the Jakarta PMC has changed chairs, with the retirement :) of Sam Ruby and the appointment of Geir Magnusson Jr. * We officially added 37 committers to the Jakarta PMC. These additions were from the previous two months, and we are starting the process of identifying new candidates and voting again. * We feel we had a successful transition to the new Apache Software License v2.0 The entire Jakarta Commons and commons sandbox has been converted, and the community is very aware of the need to ensure that both the spirit and letter of the boards instructions regarding the license are followed. Thanks to all at the ASF for help in clearing up our questions regarding the process. * The HiveMind codebase currently located in Jakarta Commons has completed it's software grant from WebCT, the employer of the primary author, and the Jakarta PMC has approved a proposal to make HiveMind a new Jakarta sub-project. Along with the PMC's support, the community response to the proposal was very positive. We have checked with the Incubator PMC, and there have been no other issues raised preventing this from happening. * The Jakarta Struts sub-project has voted to apply for ASF top-level project status. The Jakarta PMC supports this and urges the board to accept their proposal ASAP. * The HttpClient component of Jakarta Commons has voted to apply for Jakarta sub-project status. We are waiting the formal proposal, and don't foresee any problems. * We recognize that our charter is woefully inadequate, and intend to produce a revision to submit for board approval in the near future. * The Jakarta PMC had a long and sometimes heated discussion about the board's recommendation that author tags be removed from code. I think that we collectively understand the motivation and how a community has to be careful that author tags don't lead to territorial ownership of what is community-owned code. However, I urge that the board do not mandate their removal, allowing the individual communities to police themselves on this issue. Many of us, myself included, value the author tags because we recognize that it's human nature to be proud of one's work, and the author tag is [one] way in which new community members can initially find value in contribution. Finally, we would appreciate some clarification on how removal of the tags changes the legal exposure of the committers or the ASF. I, for one, don't grok the legal argument. Geir Magnusson Jr. VP, Jakarta - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
Mike posted the board reccomendation at the begining of this thread. Much of the heat on the PMC list is a lack of consultation and exposure of this issue. Sombody must know what they were thinking, but its not me. -jsd Michael McGrady wrote: > Does anyone have the "recommendation" or the reasoning? There seems to > be a dirth of information on what they were thinking about. Just to > assume that representatives of the various projects know more than the > members of the projects about this issue is not a good way to go, in my > opinion. > > Mike > > At 06:01 AM 3/12/2004, you wrote: > >> Adrian, >> >> As far as I can see, the discussion is happening on many project >> lists, and on the pmc list. You would think [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be >> a better forum, but its quiet there. >> >> Because this is a board "recomendation" individual projects have to >> make their own dicisions on wether to implement it or not. >> HttpClients committers and community will have to decide to do this or >> not for HttpClient. As HttpClient is still part of Commons, this >> decision could be defered to all of Commons, but given HttpClients top >> level aspirations, I would encourage HttpClient to make this decision >> on its own. >> >> -jsd >> >> >> Adrian Sutton wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I understand that people have a lot to say on this topic, however >>> this is >>> most definitely not the list to say it on. No one on this list has the >>> legal authority to represent or make decisions on behalf of the ASF >>> and this >>> is an ASF decision. The recommendation that author tags not be used >>> came >>> down from the board of the ASF which does have the ability to make such >>> decisions, nothing we say here will change that. >>> >>> I certainly don't intend to tell people not to voice their opinions >>> on this >>> matter, every decision in the ASF can potentially be reversed but such >>> issues need to be taken to the ASF board or at least the PMC (the PMC is >>> apparently already hotly debating this topic). >>> >>> My biggest problem at the moment is thinking of a list that >>> non-committers >>> can subscribe to that would be appropriate for this conversation. >>> license@ >>> is closed, community@ is closed board@ is closed, pmc@ is closed. Where >>> exactly is the best place for these conversations to take place in a >>> manner >>> that is open to contributions from everyone? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Adrian Sutton. >>> >>> === >>> Kangaroo Point MarchFest is an annual festival of music, art, food and >>> culture, that aims to build community spirit and bring all types of >>> people together for a time of fun and entertainment. >>> Sat March 20th, midday till 10pm, at Kangaroo Point Uniting Church. >>> http://www.soulpurpose.com.au/marchfest >>> === - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
Adrian, As far as I can see, the discussion is happening on many project lists, and on the pmc list. You would think [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be a better forum, but its quiet there. Because this is a board "recomendation" individual projects have to make their own dicisions on wether to implement it or not. HttpClients committers and community will have to decide to do this or not for HttpClient. As HttpClient is still part of Commons, this decision could be defered to all of Commons, but given HttpClients top level aspirations, I would encourage HttpClient to make this decision on its own. -jsd Adrian Sutton wrote: Hi all, I understand that people have a lot to say on this topic, however this is most definitely not the list to say it on. No one on this list has the legal authority to represent or make decisions on behalf of the ASF and this is an ASF decision. The recommendation that author tags not be used came down from the board of the ASF which does have the ability to make such decisions, nothing we say here will change that. I certainly don't intend to tell people not to voice their opinions on this matter, every decision in the ASF can potentially be reversed but such issues need to be taken to the ASF board or at least the PMC (the PMC is apparently already hotly debating this topic). My biggest problem at the moment is thinking of a list that non-committers can subscribe to that would be appropriate for this conversation. license@ is closed, community@ is closed board@ is closed, pmc@ is closed. Where exactly is the best place for these conversations to take place in a manner that is open to contributions from everyone? Regards, Adrian Sutton. === Kangaroo Point MarchFest is an annual festival of music, art, food and culture, that aims to build community spirit and bring all types of people together for a time of fun and entertainment. Sat March 20th, midday till 10pm, at Kangaroo Point Uniting Church. http://www.soulpurpose.com.au/marchfest === - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
You are not likely to get a replacement mechanism from the Board. You *might* from the PMC, but that will be driven from the project level up, as the PMC is composed of a sampling of committers. If HttpClient comes up with an alternative, I could present it to the PMC and it could become the defacto reccomendation. -jsd Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote: Love yah, Roland, but this is not your shining hour. Actually Roland shines when it comes to giving feedback to proposed changes, patches, answering questions, and helping people on the mailing. He is precisely the reason I (as a HttpClient project committer) would like to have a better attribution structure that goes beyond @author tag. The @author may be a very misleading indicator of one's contribution and its value. Roland contribution is currently MASSIVELY understated within the existing attribution structure. As much as I would regret to see @author go, at the same time I would whole-heartedly welcome a better system of giving due credits to the regular contributors like Roland. If the board comes up with viable substitution to the @author tag, so be it Oleg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Promote HttpClient to Jakarta level
Hey Mike, Sure, I'd be happy to do that. I'll start with it just after the @author discussion cools down (its hot right now) and the Sung-Gu/Sean issue gets resolved. You should also read and follow these guidelines when preparing the proposal: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html You should also itemize who voted, their email, what they voted, and if they are a committer, rather than just totals, and attach to the vote thread for documentation purposes. -jsd Michael Becke wrote: The vote to promote HttpClient passed with 4 +1s and 2 +0s. We will now need to work on a proposal and start talking with the PMC about working on the logistics. Jeff, now that you have returned (welcome back, it's good to hear from you again) would you like to start the dialogue with the PMC? Mike On Mar 9, 2004, at 10:58 PM, Michael Becke wrote: This topic has been pretty quiet since I last brought it up, so I guess it's time for a vote. I suggest that we promote HttpClient to a Jakarta level project. Please vote as follows: --- --- Vote: Promote HttpClient to Jakarta level [ ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it. [ ] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it. [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move. [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason). --- --- Mike - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
I'm not on the board, but I'm aware of two issues: 1) The ASF board has concerns over the legal ramifications of @author tags in code. IE it might be possible for someone to sue someone listed as an @author. 2) The tags have caused social issues in some projects (conflicts between people) which has not happened on HttpClient. -jsd Michael McGrady wrote: > Can someone tell me in a word or two WHY this change is important? What > is the problem that needs to be fixed? > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
Fair point. ASF is the legal owner, not the "maintainer". But @author tags do not help in identifying the maintainer at all for many reasons. A maintainer really implies one place or person for contact. A running list of @author tags, some current some ancient, do not satisfy this. The only real maintainer is the project itself: in this case all of HttpClient. Questions as to maintainance should *always* be directed to the mailing list, not to individuals. I think that the only real value to @author tags (in OSS) is to associate recognition to the programmer, which is valuable in itself but can be satisfied in other ways that don't have legal/clarity problems. The trick is to find a mechanism that is ubiquitous, easy and powerful for providing recognition without the other problems. And hopefully this could be standardized for all of Jakarta. -jsd Dan Christopherson wrote: > I think that "owner" is intended in the sense of "the primary person > responsible for maintaining", not in the sense of the legel owner. > > The programmer is only very rarely the legal owner of his work. > > Jeff Dever wrote: > >> Very nice quote. But the owner of HttpClient (and all jakarta project >> code) is *very* clear. The owner is the Apache Software Foundation >> (ASF). The individual contributor has contributed the code, and does >> need to be recognized, but when a commit is made that code no longer >> belongs to them. It belongs to the ASF. >> >> So to follow the "Pragmatic Programmer", only the ASF should be listed >> as the owner, which makes @author tags useless, and confusing from a >> legal perspective. The copyright statement at the top of every source >> file attributes ownership to the ASF. Removal of the @author tags is >> supposed to help protect those listed as @authors legal entanglements, >> and to empower the PMC. >> >> Removing the @author tags does make sense. The only thing that I am >> disappointed about is that there has been no suitable replacement >> recognition mechanism agreed upon. But its still being disucssed by >> the PMC. >> >> -jsd >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
Very nice quote. But the owner of HttpClient (and all jakarta project code) is *very* clear. The owner is the Apache Software Foundation (ASF). The individual contributor has contributed the code, and does need to be recognized, but when a commit is made that code no longer belongs to them. It belongs to the ASF. So to follow the "Pragmatic Programmer", only the ASF should be listed as the owner, which makes @author tags useless, and confusing from a legal perspective. The copyright statement at the top of every source file attributes ownership to the ASF. Removal of the @author tags is supposed to help protect those listed as @authors legal entanglements, and to empower the PMC. Removing the @author tags does make sense. The only thing that I am disappointed about is that there has been no suitable replacement recognition mechanism agreed upon. But its still being disucssed by the PMC. -jsd Roland Weber wrote: That's exactly the problem: "not necessarily who edited the file last, but the owner" There are people who see a chance to contribute an enhancement or bug fix. We'd like to have them listed as someone who contributed, but *without* the responsibility of being the owner of the code. cheers, Roland "Chris Lamprecht" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11.03.2004 09:54 Please respond to "Commons HttpClient Project" To: "Commons HttpClient Project" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject:Re: @author tags I'm currently reading _The Pragmatic Programmer_, and I just came across the following in a section entitled "Comments in Code" on page 250: "One of the most important pieces of information that should appear in the source file is the author's name -- not necessarily who edited the file last, but the owner. Attaching responsibility and accountability to source code does wonders in keeping people honest ..." - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: @author tags
I don't think that the final word has been said on the use of @author tags by the PMC. At the moment, "discouraged" seems to be more of a suggestion than a requirement. It is unclear on what benefit removing the tags will have, from a legal perspective. It is also my feeling that if we are to remove @author tags, that some comparable replacement mechanism should be proposed. All Jakarta projects will be struggling with this. I brought this issue up for clairification on the PMC list, due to the concerns raised on this list. More to come. -jsd Oleg Kalnichevski wrote: >>As far as timing goes, we can be pretty flexible I think. My preference >>would be to stop adding author tags now and begin putting people on a >>thank you list. We can then migrate existing @authors when the time >>seems right, (i.e. whenever someone gets stuck doing it). >> > > > Sounds like a compromise. I still wish, though, the board would > reconsider. > > Oleg > > > >>Mike >> >>- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Missing HttpClient CLAs
A note from Sam Ruby on the PMC list: > A project within IBM is looking to ship httpclient. Scanning the code, > I found two individuals who made notable contributions to this codebase > who have NOT signed CLAs: > > jericho:Sung-Gu Park > sullis: Sean Sullivan > > Before I dig further, does anybody happen to know anything about the > status of either of these two individuals? Have either of these two contributors been at all active in HttpClient in recent memory? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote HttpClient to Jakarta level
Fantastic! +0 > Vote: Promote HttpClient to Jakarta level > [ ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it. > [x] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it. > [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move. > [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] HttpClient 2.0 RC1
+1 A little late from me, but development is proceeding very well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/ "Kalnichevski, Oleg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 24/07/2003 10:40:30 PM: +1 -Original Message- From: Kalnichevski, Oleg Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VOTE] HttpClient 2.0 RC1 We have had just one (what I see as a real) bug since 2.0 beta2. I think it is time we moved past 'beta' into 'final release' phase with 2.0 branch Oleg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: commons-httpclient-dev- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: commons-httpclient-dev- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Add commons-codec as an HttpClient dependency
+1 Michael Becke wrote: I propose that we start using commons-codec (nightly builds) for our Base64 and URL encoding needs. This change would go into effect for the 2.1 release (HEAD). -- Vote: commons-codec dependency for 2.1 [ ] +1 I am in favor of this proposal. [ ] -1 I am against this proposal. -- Mike - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Logging guide fixed
Ok, I'm pinned in Victoria right now, will do when I arrive on Monday or Tuesday. Oleg Kalnichevski wrote: Jandalf, Logging guide has been fixed. Ideally the web site should be redeployed for the fix to take effect Cheers Oleg On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 09:59, Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote: Tom Thanks for pointing it out Cheers Oleg -Original Message- From: Tom Samplonius [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Freitag, 14. März 2003 08:06 To: Commons HttpClient Project Subject: RE: problem with post On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: System.setProperty( "org.apache.commons.logging.simplelog.log.httpclient.wire ", "debug"); I had this problem too. You copied this right off the website, didn't you? Well, there is an extra space after ".wire" that prevents this from doing anything. Take it out, and it will activate wirelogging. Someone might want to fix the website. Tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: file systems
I agree. HttpClient is not a all purpose url handler: it is a client side implementation of the HTTP protocol. There are an unlimited number of different URL types. HttpClient should only handle the HTTP ones. Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote: Rob, HttpClient does not offer support for file:// scheme and I personally doubt that it should, as the protocol in question has nothing to do with HTTP. Other protocols like file://, news://, ldap:// and whatever:// should be supported on a higher level with http:// and https:// scheme being just a few among many. Cheers Oleg -Original Message- From: Rob Tice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Donnerstag, 13. März 2003 13:31 To: 'Commons HttpClient Project' Subject: file systems Hi there Just a quick question - The http client doesn't appear to support file:// as a valid protocol - any plans to implement file system support? Rob Tice - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
