FOR SALE: Two batteries and neoprene case
I have an OpenMoko neoprene carrying case and two (2) OpenMoko batteries for sale if anyone wants them. Make me an offer. I'm in San Francisco so if you're local to the Bay Area I'll meet you somewhere. Otherwise I suppose I can ship it US mail reasonably cheaply. Thanks. (Sorry about the SPAM; I didn't realize how busy the list had become and forgot to put a big For Sale at the top). -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko batteries and carrying case
I have an OpenMoko neoprene carrying case and two (2) OpenMoko batteries for sale if anyone wants them. Make me an offer. I'm in San Francisco so if you're local to the Bay Area I'll meet you somewhere. Otherwise I suppose I can ship it US mail reasonably cheaply. Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:38:07PM +0300, Mikko Rauhala wrote: ti, 2008-07-29 kello 20:53 +0200, Marcus Bauer kirjoitti: I'm a huge Openstreetmap fan but until OSM is ready for routing this will take at least five more years, probably ten. That's probably true _if you drive a car_ (though even for that it can be a handy help, especially in areas that don't happen to have lots of turn restrictions, though you of course don't want to just blindly drive listening to it anyway). Us others want navigation too and are considerably less hampered by OSM's current lackings. 'course, there are other projects than TangoGPS, but it seems otherwise nice so one would like it to include this as well. As long as I'm not coding it, it's not my call, of course :] PS: Kudos for your work and all, but with all your hyperbole, jumping to conclusions, accusations of lying and stuff, you might want to take a step back for a breather if you want, you know, people to bother to listen to you instead of just wanting to rant wildly. I have a really dumb question: What is the point of having GPS anyway? I don't travel much, so perhaps that's why I just don't get it. If I'm navigating around a strange city, though, a hardcopy map is plenty good. I spend most of my time walking or taking public transport, within a very short radius, in an area I already know very well. I'm just not getting what's cool or exciting about GPS. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Removing SMS Messages from OM
On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 08:45:28PM +0100, David Pottage wrote: John Whitmore wrote: Sorry can't find answer to problem. Hello all, Well my OpenMoko has arrived and I'm very happy with it. Thanks to all the people who've made this happen. I do hope that in the future I can join the contributors. Before that I've got two minor problems which somebody might be able to direct me to the solutions on the wiki. I can't seem to find them. Firstly my Irish Vodafone SIM card don't work so I'll have to get a new one tomorrow. In the mean time I plugged in a friend's SIM just to see if that worked. It did, so that I know it's a SIM issue, but now I've got a load of my friend's SMS messages in my OM phone :-( Never thought that would happen. OK what was I thinking, but could somebody tell me where the OM stores it's SMS's and can I delete them? They are in: ~/.evolution/memos/local/system/journal.ics I've asked several times where ASU stores its SMS messages, and never got any straight answer. Where does it store them? In .evolution or in a different place? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM detection/identification
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 09:57:01PM -0400, Paul Buede wrote: Dimitri wrote: Are you able to make and receive calls? If not, perhaps the sim isn't touching all the phone's connections. At least, that's the problem I had when I tried to connect to ATT. It would show that I had 5 bars, but it would always say Registering I was able to wiggle the sim a little, reboot the phone, and have it properly connect to the ATT network (i.e., it changed from Registering... to ATT and I was able to make/receive calls and text messages). D Paul Buede wrote: So, I picked up a tmobile sim, and signed up with them (I have another week to cancel), and so the phone registers with tmobile. I am finding the coverage isn't great in the rural areas I find myself. When driving around, if out of reach of tmobile, it will say registering as if there is no sim card. But, on the little image of the antenna, that shows how strong my connection is, I still have 2 bars. Is that a bad guage of connectivity? Is it wrong? Or does that maybe tell me that it has 2 bars of strength with some sort of other gsm network? Is there a way I can query the phone from the cli to have it show me the different carriers it can sense network for? I am interested in running a little cron to pipe all carriers it detects into a file every minute as I drive around the countryside, so I can see who i will get the best coverage with. Thanks Yes, I am able to make and receive calls when it reads T-Mobile in the upper left. But then, as I get further away from civilization it switches to Registering, but a bar or two remain in the upper right. Hmm. Has anyone ported Kismet to the OpenMoko yet? Also, has anyone created a GSM Kismet, or some kind of tool that will list all carriers and their relative signal strengths. Since the phone has a built in GPS, it seems like it would be the absolutely ideal Kismet platform, and also for something similar to map cell phone signal strength and coverage. With GPRS, it could also upload that coverage data to a public site somewhere and create nice interactive maps. Could be helpful for people choosing which carrier to use: you could see who's got what coverage where in places that you commonly travel to, live in, and work in. The carriers would hate it, but so what. The people might find it useful. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:53PM -0700, ian douglas wrote: Just don't try tethering (using your phone as a modem) on their cheap data plan, or they'll hit you with overage fees or tell you to convert to the smarthphone plan. Is there a specific limit? How do they *know* you are tethering? What are the overage fees and where are they detailed? Thanks. Steven ** wrote: My understanding is that it's marketing BS and there isn't much (if any) difference between those unlimited data plans. The difference seems to be what ATT is willing to sell you. If you have a crappy old phone, they'll sell you a cheap data plan because they figure you won't use it. If you have a smartphone, they figure you might actually be able to and want to browse the web and therefore charge you more. What I'm thinking of trying is taking my old, crappy flip-phone into the store when asking about data plans. That should get me the cheap plan. Then just pop the SIM card back into my Neo. I'm betting I'll have full internet. Worst case scenario: I'll have to tunnel everything through port 80. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:38:07AM +0800, John Lee wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 01:47:29AM +0100, Al Johnson wrote: I'll snip most of it to keep the length reasonable. same here :) On Tuesday 29 July 2008, William Lai wrote: It already is. We've offered a couple of different solutions to community requests that were declined by, well, engineering. One of them was: * create a package to be installed through installer adding manual qwerty button to illume theme. The only suggestion I remember was that the community fork illume. Is this a different take on the same suggestion, or a different suggestion? What was the other option? And what was the objection to providing it as a configuration option with the default being off, as proposed on this list? What we are trying to do: provide a OM repository and a community repository. in this particular case, if in the end the illume still shipped without kbd button, then the community will very likely provide another version of illume called illume-kbd in the community repository. thus you can replace the shipped illume with illume-kbd, and the next upgrade will get the new version of illume-kbd instead of illume, so you don't need to change it again after upgrade. Where we are right at the moment: illume is there. the community repository is not ready yet but we're working on it. the dependency handling of replacing the shipped illume with illume-kbd is not ready yet but we're working on it. My personal comment on this: if the illume is so much more popular then illume-kdb (theoretically we can know that from the repository log) or the other way around then you bet that fact will be very effective in OM. ;) I bought the FreeRunner in order to: 1) Use for remote system administration, via a terminal and onscreen keyboards, via SSH over WiFi and GPRS. 2) Browse the web via WiFi and/or GPRS 3) Read/write email using some kind of IMAP mail app, and send/recieve SMS 4) Make and receive calls via VOIP and GSM 5) Play media (Vorbis, MP3, FLV's, MP4's) and record audio 6) Write a custom touchscreen UI app for a linux-based music synthesizer (connecting to the synth via Bluetooth) 7) Maybe run some simple synth applications on the FR, using the USB host mode to connect it to a MIDI keyboard. So far, not even the first 5 of those are complete and reliable enough for me to actually use without hassle, and based on what I've read here, I'm estimating about 2 years before they are. In the meantime, however, I've realized that I can probably get through the rest of my life happily without *any* of the above features, and I should have waited a few more years before spending so much money. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 09:25:45AM -0700, ian douglas wrote: Ken Restivo wrote: Is there a specific limit? How do they *know* you are tethering? What are the overage fees and where are they detailed? From what I've read, they watch your traffic for things like user agent strings (if they see an HTTP header specifying that you're using Firefox, it's a sure thing you're tethering since Firefox doesn't have a mobile browser yet), or that they watch for traffic levels that exceed your phone's capacity. For example, if you surf and browse more than a few GB of traffic (ie: torrent downloads) chances are good that you're tethering since your phone will only natively hold about 200MB of content plus whatever your SD card will hold. That's bizarre. They actually hire people to sit around and snoop people's UserAgent strings? Kind of NSA-like? If so, ATT has *way* too much money, and their subscribers are paying for the salaries of spies to snoop their own traffic. Seems kinda creepy to me. As for overage fees, it's whatever they charge you based on your current plan. For example if you don't HAVE a data plan, they'll hit you with pretty heavy fees. Even at 0.01/kb on the MediaNet plan, they expect all of your content will come through their MediaNet browser. That's $10 per 1 MB of data over their limit, which frankly isn't hard to do these days. That's unpleasant. Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether. So unlimited data isn't unlimited at all? Never mind Open Source phones, looks like what we need is Open Source carriers. But I'm told that Sprint Metro PCS allows unlimited data, and tethering, for US$60/mo, and also the $30/mo plan is the same thing and people have (I'm told) just paid that and gotten data for free, although I don't remember the details of how they did that. Supposedly that is at DSL speeds too. Alas, Sprint PCS is not GSM, so no dice for FreeRunner owners. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:28:13AM +0800, Marek Lindner wrote: On Wednesday, 30. July 2008 10:18:33 Al Johnson wrote: I agree with everything you say here. The keyboard should just appear when I want it and disappear when I don't. The absence of a manual override means that whenever it gets it wrong I can't correct it, the worst case being when I need to enter something but the keyboard doesn't appear. Conversely the presence of a manual override causes no problem even if it is never needed. The keyboard failing to appear is not a hypothetical scenario. Without manual intervention minimo was unusable because the keyboard didn't appear when the cursor was placed for URL entry. This is likely to be an issue with other apps that don't have a specific openmoko port, and we shouldn't have to create such a port just to use an otherwise capable app on openmoko. Other issues include the keyboard appearing when an edit field has focus although I don't want to edit it, keyboard appearing and disappearing frequently if a form contains mixed input types, or appearing over the top of the field to be edited. The field having focus although editing is not required is probably impossible to detect because the answer depends on the opinion of the user at the time. I understand your points and they all are valid. How do we address them ? That brings us back to Seans mail. Openmoko will provide the minimum set of applications and basic functionality that empowers ordinary users to use the phone. We will make sure that these applications work well with the environment we provide. This is an ongoing process we just started compared to many established phone systems. Feel invited to extend that basic system through packages that can be installed. If you install an application that hasn't been ported to the Openmoko platform and does not support the keyboard you also should install the manual keyboard button or you just install a package which deativates the automatic keyboard behaviour right away if you don't like it. We have to realize that the world is very diverse - we wont find a solution which suits for everybody in all the cases. So, we have to make it flexible. Again: This is a process and you can help us with that. I feel terrible about this whole mess because I was one of the first people in the original terminal thread, and I filed one of the original bug reports on it too. I don't expect to be able to stop the mailing-list train wreck from continuing, now that it has developed a momentum of its own, except to apologize for having been involved in starting it in the first place. Sorry about that. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any sales at Linuxworld?
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 01:33:12PM -0300, Adilson Oliveira wrote: Hi. I believe Openmoko itself will not be selling GTAs at Linuxworld next week (piti) but is anyone going to do it? I'll gladly buy my there it's available. If mine isn't sold by next week, then yes, absolutely, mine is for sale. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Now that you have your phone, what are you doing?
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008, andres wrote: On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 17:30 +0300, Breakable wrote: Hi there, Just wondering those of you who have the device already, what are you doing with your new device? Right now I'm trying to sell it. Is there any aftermarket for these things? I'm getting a bit terrified since there has been no interest in my GTA02 for sale, and AFAICT the things are sold out. I can't afford to have a very expensive paperweight sitting around that I don't have time to fiddle around with. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When are the sale gonna start?
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:02:21AM +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alexander_Fr=F8yseth_ wrote: Like the topic, when are the sale gonna start? It is 26. July here (Norway) and the clock shows 10:00 AM (and since the US is about 9 hour after us, the time is about 01:00 AM). I almost can't wait any longer :) I have one for sale, but I'm in San Francisco. Sorry, a long way from Norway. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is there some way to turn the predictive dictionary off?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 08:33:50AM +0200, David Samblas wrote: Hi raster, If this fork of this is how Carlsten and many others here thinks ilumme has to be ever is created count with a tester/user/brerly developer. I like ASU a lot but this fuzzy, not argued nor defended design desitions made for people that prefer to not to discuss it in public is a little bit against my idea of open/free. The paranoid part of my mind has wishpererd something to the rational part and toghether are talking about the posibity this mindless hidding features already done policy is to educate the interested in ASU to know how is done at code level forcing them to hack it to make it usable and finally when the official ASU will be unmantained because the volunteers and payed rebel developers are workin in a awesome fork , the fork will become the official... Is what happen when reason doesn't find arguments to understand something, paranoia arrise. Keep on working raster, your willing to understand and satisfy the user is the main reason I still have seeing posibilities to the ASU initiative. There's no need for paranoia. That #ifdef makes it seem to me like there's going to be a menu item in Exposure to let the user pick which keyboard to use, but there's no code yet to implement that configuration choice. That'd be the right way to do it IMHO-- let the user switch between keyboards on the fly-- no recompiling necessary. That's the kind of configurability that a product manager or designer would put into a spec, for example, and I'd agree with it. As for implementing it, does Carsten want help? Maybe the Qtopia API makes it easy to add preferences/settings and to query some system-wide database for them (I don't know Qtopia, so I'm just saying it *might*). In the best case, our woes might be solved with 5-10 lines of Qtopia API code replacing that #ifdef, plus some adding of options to the configuration system. If that's what's going on, then all this anguish would simply be another case of too many users trying to actually *use* a product that isn't anywhere near ready to be actually used yet (I'm guilty of that for sure). -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which distribution to use on FR?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 09:44:21AM +0200, Yorick Moko wrote: are you sure the ASU is fast? maybe it's because i'm running it from SD, but the ASU is everything but fast here. There is even a slight delay when typing in numbers in the dialer... Qtopia seemed far more faster to me. It seems faster to me than the 2007.02 image. Maybe some of the apps are more tightly-written. But screen displays are slow, and loading an app takes forever no matter which distro. I'd imagine that any distro that doesn't use X (i.e. Qtopia on FrameBuffer) would be much faster. On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 01:10:05PM -0700, Katrin Tomanek wrote: Hi, I am new to OM and just received my new FR a couple of hours ago. I've been playing around with different distributions/images and am now wondering which distribution you guys prefer, use, and/or recommend: - OM2007.2 - ASU - FSO - Qtopia Actually, I tried all of the above ones (most recent versions/snapshots) except FSO. Only for OM2007.2, making phone calls worked out of the box. On ASU and Qtopia I couldn't make phone calls (or receive). Optically, I likes OM2007.2 best, however, it is awfully slow and constantly has a load 2. Why is this? I use the ASU image. It has the speed/reliability/maturity/app-availability of the Qtopia platform, and also supports GTK/Gnome/X applications too. And, ASU development is being funded by OpenMoko, and it will be their official shipping distribution, another reason to expect it will be the more stable and feature-full of the distros. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Finding hardware revision number in ASU
The method of finding the hardware revision of a FR described here will not work on ASU: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Finding_hardware_revision 1) There is no gsmd or libgsmd-tool on AS 2) The qpe process locks the TTY of the GSM modem, and won't let go of it! So I can't even cu into it, even if I kill qpe. How can I find the hardware revision if I'm using ASU? Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
For sale: one GTA02
I'm selling a barely-used, two-week-old FreeRunner GTA02. No time to work on it. I have all the accessries and almost all of the original packaging for it. I'd prefer someone in the Bay Area, and ideally someone in San Francisco proper. I'm not going to mess with PayPal and shipping and all that. Thanks! -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 07:40:49AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:54:49 -0700 Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:16:22PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: IMO it's crazy for you (the senior developer to ASU? you're surely the most active?) to have his hands tied by these shadowy designers who can interfere apparently on a whim. Especially when they're coming up with crazy decisions that are technically poor!! welcome to openmoko. i get paid to program. i am not a designer (as i have been told) and thus am not qualified to make decisions there (so i have been informed). i am paid to program. so that is what i will do. If you've been mismanaged/micromanaged so badly that you've had to adopt what Neitzche called the Sklavmoral-- or I'm not paid to think, I'm only paid to wash the floors-- attitude in order to survive, it doesn't bode well for OpenMoko. In any case, you're doing great work, so illigitimum non carborundum. I can't tell you how delighted I was when I saw the qwerty button suddenly appear after doing an opkg upgrade! And the ability to choose different keyboard layouts from a pop-up menu was great. I thought to myself, now THIS is a well-managed project, critical features that I need are being added without even asking for them, and the progress is daily!. And now of course it is gone. sorry to give false hope - that was just me... doing things... things slipped through - i enable the button so i can do debugging and play with the keyboard without having to go run or write special apps (i also have a special app to test auto-keyboard hint properties too - but that's another matter). :) i actually don't really intend for a lot of he current ugly guts of kbd changes to be seen as well - it's all a work in progress, but the illume keyboard now has everything except: 1. actual dictionary lookup + correction. (got the infra - just missing the dict bit). 2. the ability to either enable or disable it and optionally run another keyboard app (illume's keyboard won't always be what you want. it's really meant to be the no-frills really efficient keyboard that comes for free (so to speak) with your desktop env at very little overhead). it likely will never do handwriting recognition or try emulate dasher... or many things, but for a basic nuts and bolts inputs mechanism that is easily extended by users with new layouts and gets the job done, its here and comes for free (as such if the keyboard is never shown the code is never paged in and it uses no memory resources. even if used - code is dynamically paged, so its paged out again when not used). Can someone please document what hack is necessary to add that button back in? And, yes, if anyone wants to please fork the necessary package, I will subscribe to that feed instead, because the ability to use an on-screen keyboard on a Linux phone is a must-have for me. The Illume keyboard with Full-QWERTY is excellent and I love it. I need to be able to launch it manually in order to use it with Minimo and openmoko-terminal2-- the two apps I purchased the phone to use. unfortunately you're out of luck. people who pay me want qtopia's keyboard - and so they shall get it. illume's internal keyboard is/will be disabled. i haven't had time to make any way to enable illume's internal one by config yet. Ah wait, then I wasn't using the correct name for it. The Qtopia keyboard-- whatever the default one is in qpe-- with the Full-QWERTY mode, *is* in fact what I want. It's a great keyboard. I like that it has a simple mode, a Full-QWERTY mode, and a numeric mode. I thought Illume was the default keyboard but I guess qpe is. In any case, it's great, and I'm happy with it. If some more elegant method is designed later on, and works, I'll switch to it. But for now I need a working keyboard in the terminal, and web browser, and all the other apps. I'm sure all this will get sorted out eventually, and rough going like this is normal in the early days, so no big deal. edje_decc (from edj-utils) the illume.edj file (enligtenment theme installed in /usr/share/enlightenment/data/themes). in the directory find the .edc file - edit. search for a comment string don't look at me. here are 3 of them. notice the line above i the same entry - just commented out with a different value. comment out the line with the don't look at me comment and UNCOMMENT the line above. you'll get a keyboard button. rebuild the file (build.sh or edje_cc file.edc) and copy the .edj file back on top of the original... restart E (killall -HUP enlightenment will do the job - along with a dozen other mechanisms... all but 1 disabled). :) Thanks. I may have a play with that later. Someone posted an .edj file to make the qwerty button re-appear on the default QPE keyboard
Re: Free Beer
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 01:31:33PM +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote: Stroller wrote: On 24 Jul 2008, at 06:22, Kalle Happonen wrote: John Mark Walker wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by gratis he means without cost Oops... :) Yes, I mean free as in beer. Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is free as in free beer which makes much more sense :). I have never seen the phrase used this way, only free as in beer (vs free as in speech). Yes, I have always also heard it like that. But then I saw a question to Stallman, that doesn't make sense, there's no real free beer? And he answered that no, but people are misquoting. It was originally free as in free speech, not as in free beer or something pretty close... If there are some real gpl stallman enthusiast there, feel free to flame me for mistelling/quoting/having proprietary nvidia drivers on the laptop.. There used to be a band that played around Los Angeles 20 years ago, whose name was Sex and Free Beer. Looked great on the marquis of a club: Thursday night: Sex and Free Beer. The owners of the clubs weren't so thrilled, but the band packed the place, so I guess they got away with it. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which distribution to use on FR?
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 01:10:05PM -0700, Katrin Tomanek wrote: Hi, I am new to OM and just received my new FR a couple of hours ago. I've been playing around with different distributions/images and am now wondering which distribution you guys prefer, use, and/or recommend: - OM2007.2 - ASU - FSO - Qtopia Actually, I tried all of the above ones (most recent versions/snapshots) except FSO. Only for OM2007.2, making phone calls worked out of the box. On ASU and Qtopia I couldn't make phone calls (or receive). Optically, I likes OM2007.2 best, however, it is awfully slow and constantly has a load 2. Why is this? I use the ASU image. It has the speed/reliability/maturity/app-availability of the Qtopia platform, and also supports GTK/Gnome/X applications too. And, ASU development is being funded by OpenMoko, and it will be their official shipping distribution, another reason to expect it will be the more stable and feature-full of the distros. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Is there some way to turn the predictive dictionary off?
The dictionary prediction is driving me crazy. I'm trying to type ls, and the damned dictionary is trying to be smart, and is changing it to is. So I'm sitting here in a terminal, typing ls, and is is all I can get. Also, I lost track of where the Full-QWERTY keyboard layout was for ASU, and how to find/enable/create it. Sorry for being such a pain, but the terminal will be one of the main apps I use on this thing, so I'm finding these. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is there some way to turn the predictive dictionary off?
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:10:57PM +0100, Michael Sheldon wrote: Ken Restivo wrote: The dictionary prediction is driving me crazy. I'm trying to type ls, and the damned dictionary is trying to be smart, and is changing it to is. So I'm sitting here in a terminal, typing ls, and is is all I can get. Also, I lost track of where the Full-QWERTY keyboard layout was for ASU, and how to find/enable/create it. Sorry for being such a pain, but the terminal will be one of the main apps I use on this thing, so I'm finding these. I assume by the predictive dictionary you're using the built-in qtopia keyboard. You can get it to not be predictive by holding a key until the zoom dialog pops up (a little gray circle showing which key you have pressed). And you can get at other keyboard buttons (symbols, numbers, etc.) by sliding your finger upwards or downwards. By the Full-QWERTY keyboard I think you mean the Illume keyboard (which was what popped up until recently), but that's now disabled (in the Illume code) in favour of the qtopia keyboard. But you should be able to get virtually all the same keys you had available with that with the qtopia keyboard (there are a small number missing, like the cursor keys), you just have to know about the need to slide upwards to reveal the other layouts. OK, I'm sorry, I missed that. I really liked that Illume keyboard :-( It was perfect. I didn't know that it went away. So where do I edit the keymaps for the new-default, QPE keyboard, so that I can create a full-QWERTY layout just like the Illume one? Also, bringing up the zoom doesn't make the dictionary go away. It's still changing my ls to is. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd not in ASU repository?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:42:10AM +, Christopher White wrote: I recently pointed opkg towards: http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/ASU/armv4t I notice that gpsd in not there. I installed it from http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/ipk/armv4t Is there any particular reason it's not in ASU? I ran it along with TangoGPS without much trouble in ASU (despite a lot of D-bus not running errors). It's not necessary in ASU. The Diversity app works without any gpsd. I just got a fix this afternoon with ASU. Enabled the GPS antenna using Exposure, then clicked on Diversity, and waited a few minutes, and the little red dot suddenly moved from Taipei to San Francisco. Now I need to install the diversity maps for this location and it looks like I'll be good to go. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is there some way to turn the predictive dictionary off?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 10:41:11AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:58:15 -0700 Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I really liked that Illume keyboard :-( It was perfect. sorry - i will work on it. i will add a way to turn it on again later... but for now its disabled. i will also bring back dictionary matching (in illume's kbd the layout controls if the dictionary is used, so full-qwerty was set up so the dictionary/buffer is always bypassed and keystrokes go directly in. the idea is that full-qwerty is for terminal junkies or those with a stylus and who that would be me. And, probably, I'd guess a lot of people who would shell out twice the price of an iPhone, just because it runs Linux, would also be very, very likely to be a terminal junkie. can tap accurately. the alpha keys are for just writing normal text - like email, sms, etc. and thus will use a dictionary to help correct your mis-typings, as it's assumed you may be in a hurry and using your fingers, not a stylus (and thus make mistakes). the numeric layout is to complement the alpha one to add other numbers and symbols you want day to day for writing text - but in general you need it much less than a-z. i also want to have people be able to install and use layouts for specific languages - eg german, french, russian, greek etc. - and these keyboards should be easy to create .kbd layout files for. what is missing is an actual dictionary backing the dictionary lookup buffer (used to have one - a very small 5000 word dictionary, but gone - for now), and the ability to select which dictionary to use (as i have read here - people seem to want to be able to select language for dictionary and layouts - often separately). Sounds great. now here is the cool bit.. with the right layout file (one just like full qwerty) it'd be perfectly possible to have a terminal commands dictionary that has all the common unix commands AND their command-line options in it and then change the full-qwerty to be a terminal.kbd -allow dictionary matching for keystrokes needed (a-z, -, _ 0-9), and then i guess i need a way for a kbd file to indicate a required (or preferred) dictionary too. but the cool it is.. this is only a few steps away code-wise. very few. this should make all the terminal junkies most happy, give input for regular english (or german, french etc.), and still maintain a small footprint. Very nice feature! Would help a lot, kind of like bash completion. Keystrokes on a touchscreen could really benefit from this. it's a nice stop along the train ride to have all this - and something ihave kind of planned along the way to try and meet the needs of people here - at least as i see them expressed on the list (wanting to type regular text, wanting to use the terminal, wanting to be able to pop the keyboard up and done as you the user wants, not the application thinks it wants. etc.) one FIXME i have in the code is auto-detecting a real keyboard (usb or bluetooth). if you plug in or use a REAL keyboard you'd like the virtual one to just slide away and hide while this is the case (or course begin able to manually bring it up if wanted). right now i don't know a CLEAN way to auto-detect this. (and by CLEAN i mean a way that would work not just on the freerunner, but on a desktop as well, and any other device that is similar - so in future as we produce new and interesting devices - the exact same code just keeps working without specific changes per device)... unfortunately for me - this is a lower priority thing as well. i have no usb keyboard that plugs in and works with my FR, no a bluetooth one... if i get around to having these 2 - i'd definitely look into it. in the meantime... anyone who wants to find a nice clean way to detect this... it'd make this happen sooner... :) I didn't know that it went away. So where do I edit the keymaps for the new-default, QPE keyboard, so that I can create a full-QWERTY layout just like the Illume one? qtopia's keyboard layout is hard-coded into the keyboard. no files to go edit. Auuughhh!!! OK, my phone is once again a brick. It's funny how it goes from being a great device to being more or less useless at least once every two days... this is normal for a product under heavy development. But it is also frustrating. The hard-coded QPE keyboard that has replaced Illume has no control key. No ALT key. No up or down arrows either. And the keyboard layout is hard-coded, which seems fatally limiting. How will users who don't speak English use it if there are no .kbd files? The text-editable .kbd files approach was a *great* idea
Re: Is there some way to turn the predictive dictionary off?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:27:02PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:01:47 -0700 Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: directly in. the idea is that full-qwerty is for terminal junkies or those with a stylus and who that would be me. many more than just you... if my observation is not totally off (i actually read/listen to a lot more than i reply to, so i hope in many ways to just absorb what people want... and make mental notes of it.). i can definitely see why you want it (note - even if you want something - i might not always agree... but i will always discuss it as it may be that you THINK you want X but in reality you really want Y, and have just arrived at the wrong conclusion of wanting X - and if Y were implemented it'd give you the functionality of X... but as i said - i'll always make it clear that i'm trying to give you what you want... just trying to give it to you in a way that is better :) And, probably, I'd guess a lot of people who would shell out twice the price of an iPhone, just because it runs Linux, would also be very, very likely to be a terminal junkie. no surprise here.. though the iphone is not 1/2 the price. last i checked its about 2-3 times the price... if you buy it unlocked - which is comparing apples to apples... (no pun intended). remember at that 1/2 price tag you are paying the iphone off over 2 years of contract - and the actual price is much more. :) dictionary to use (as i have read here - people seem to want to be able to select language for dictionary and layouts - often separately). Sounds great. as i said... i'm doing my own thing anyway... but it wont be in ASU - it'll be some fork or hidden code features u'll need to go hacking at. regular english (or german, french etc.), and still maintain a small footprint. Very nice feature! Would help a lot, kind of like bash completion. Keystrokes on a touchscreen could really benefit from this. hmm. right now the dictionary code doesnt know completion - it just does matching. but fuzzy matching - or in theory. that means you need to type the WHOLE word - u cant just complete (doing completion in addition to fuzzy matching is a lot more expensive lookup-wise so i'm simplifying the expense of the fuzzy dict matching by not doing completions - i can go into detail why completions WITH fuzzy matching are not likely to be viable... but if you trust me - it saves me explaining... :) ) qtopia's keyboard layout is hard-coded into the keyboard. no files to go edit. Auuughhh!!! OK, my phone is once again a brick. It's funny how it goes from being a great device to being more or less useless at least once every two days... this is normal for a product under heavy development. But it is also frustrating. :( The hard-coded QPE keyboard that has replaced Illume has no control key. No ALT key. No up or down arrows either. And the keyboard layout is hard-coded, which seems fatally limiting. How will users who don't speak English use it if there are no .kbd files? indeed it has none of these keys. Then how can people in countries that use non-US keyboard layouts and charsets use the phone even to enter their friends names, or to text them to say hello? The text-editable .kbd files approach was a *great* idea. As was the qwerty button (which I was able to bring back thanks to someone posting a file with it), and the pop-up for picking different keyboard types, etc... all stuff that delighted this user and has been summarily removed. :) thanks :) No prob. The summarily removed part really sucks though :-) What packages do I need to hack, and how, to bring the Illume keyboard-- the one with the configurable .kbd files-- back again? Or, is the QPE keyboard going to get this text-editable keyboard layout functionality soon (and, how soon)? illume is what u want top hack.. and its 1 line of code in: e_mod_win.c // FIXME: run kbd app or use internal #if 0 //enable for now to test internal kbd vkbd_int = e_kbd_int_new(e_module_dir_get(m), e_module_dir_get(m), e_module_dir_get(m)); #endif Fantastic! Thanks! Now I need to either get my moko Makefile working on my AMD64 system, or otherwise see what got decided in that public buildhost thread. see that #if 0... make it a #if 1 :) (it's just waiting for me to actually make this config so of course i leave little poopie droppings along the way as i get around to things... for now this is my quick and dirty on/off switch for the internal keyboard). Cool. Having it user-configurable would definitely be the right way to go. If that's coming in a short time (i.e. days) then maybe I'll just wait it out
Re: Terminal for ASU
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:16:22PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: IMO it's crazy for you (the senior developer to ASU? you're surely the most active?) to have his hands tied by these shadowy designers who can interfere apparently on a whim. Especially when they're coming up with crazy decisions that are technically poor!! welcome to openmoko. i get paid to program. i am not a designer (as i have been told) and thus am not qualified to make decisions there (so i have been informed). i am paid to program. so that is what i will do. If you've been mismanaged/micromanaged so badly that you've had to adopt what Neitzche called the Sklavmoral-- or I'm not paid to think, I'm only paid to wash the floors-- attitude in order to survive, it doesn't bode well for OpenMoko. In any case, you're doing great work, so illigitimum non carborundum. I can't tell you how delighted I was when I saw the qwerty button suddenly appear after doing an opkg upgrade! And the ability to choose different keyboard layouts from a pop-up menu was great. I thought to myself, now THIS is a well-managed project, critical features that I need are being added without even asking for them, and the progress is daily!. And now of course it is gone. Can someone please document what hack is necessary to add that button back in? And, yes, if anyone wants to please fork the necessary package, I will subscribe to that feed instead, because the ability to use an on-screen keyboard on a Linux phone is a must-have for me. The Illume keyboard with Full-QWERTY is excellent and I love it. I need to be able to launch it manually in order to use it with Minimo and openmoko-terminal2-- the two apps I purchased the phone to use. If some more elegant method is designed later on, and works, I'll switch to it. But for now I need a working keyboard in the terminal, and web browser, and all the other apps. I'm sure all this will get sorted out eventually, and rough going like this is normal in the early days, so no big deal. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
VTE font size
How can I adjust the font size in the VTE terminal? I'm using it with the ASU. Is it the same xrdb/.Xresources style way that is used on, say, xterm or rxvt? There doesn't appear to be any options menu or other settings available for VTE. The default font is too big though, there's not even enough room to even fit the path, let alone any commands or output. And xrdb doesn't seem to be installed on the phone either. Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:01:24AM +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Berger_ wrote: Indeed I fail to see the advantage of having no manual triggering of keyboard. On my desktop PC, I have never dreamt of my keyboard popping out of a drawer when it thinks I should need it... And this morning, after my daily opkg upgrade... I rebooted ASU and I am stuck, not even able to enter my SIM PIN !! Because... there was no keyboard on the screen ! I experienced this today too. It rendered my FR useless. Everything I'd finally gotten working yesterday (VTE, Minimo, tasks app) stopped working today, and I'm stuck with, essentially, a brick. The keyboard doesn't even pop up automatically anymore, and there's no way to add it. Can someone document what hacks are available to bring the Illume keyboard back, and to manually trigger it with that little qwerty button that used to be there, in case the designers decide they don't want users to be able to type things in anymore? Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:36:27PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:05:48 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On 21 Jul 2008, at 19:47, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ... the problem is the designers decided that ASU is not to have any manual keyboard toggle button because it will disturb the design and/or confuse users, so all apps and toolkits need modification to talk a protocol to bring up the keyboard on demand (no manual controls). that is why you need to do this. personally i think you need a manual control because, as such, many apps and toolkits will not be changed, or they will get it wrong and give you a keyboard when you don't want one, or decide not to give you one when you do... but that's not my call. Hi Carsten, Sorry to trouble you, but who are these designers, please? i'll let them speak up if they wish to be part of a debate on this. it's up to them. i am not one way or another here. not going to defend or dob-in. i have no vested interests one way or another. i have technical reasons why i think the move to remove any such manual control is a bad thing and have made them clear often enough. i am not going to get into it again. i am staying neutral - i have my professional opinions and personal ones, but my job is to implement what is designed by others to the best of my ability - if something is technically not possible or utterly infeasible - i can't do it, but removing a manual keyboard button is perfectly easy to do, and so it gets done. if i hadn't made it clear.. i am being neutral on this - i am simply stating the facts as they are. i am not wanting to beat anyone one over this. i am just stating facts. emotions and opinions thereafter are entirely those of people as they wish to express them - they were not intended or written here. just sticking to facts. I think many of us would like to contribute to the ASU, seeing as how it's the future of Openmoko, so this would appear to be a limitation upon community contributions. as such we are paid by openmoko to do what we are told to do by the design department and that is what we then do. you in the community can go and do your own themes and patches and packages and do what u want. Where are the design documents which say no keyboard toggle button should be included, please? If one wishes to contribute code or patches to ASU then I guess it's necessary to know this, or one will find patches rejected because they don't meet this design specification? well design documents are pretty thin on the ground. i was told so in email/irc directly to do this. i had a manual button there originally and was explicitly told to remove it. i argued that this was a bad move for many Please tell me who told you to do this so I can flame him :-) He ruined my whole afternoon. technical reasons (porting of apps such as SDL games that don't use gtk or qt that now all need modifications, i listed the apps it will break, the reasoning of not always wanting a virtual keyboard (ie an entry box may be focused, but you just want to READ the content, not edit) etc. etc.) but it was made entirely clear that the button had to go - arguments or not. as i remember the reasons being that it cluttered the interface, was confusing, unnecessary and that all applications can be modified to talk the protocol anyway. or something to that effect. this was a while ago so i'm a little hazy on the reasons - but it was something like that. again - i'm neutral. i'm just a programmer. i just implement code. Smart move. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Project Proposal: Dead man's switch
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:05:55PM +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_Fern=E1ndez_Dur=E1n_ wrote: Hi all, Sorry, a week of sinusitis[1] is the cause of this crazy idea. What do you think about a little app that works as dead man's switch[2] (DMS since now) in the FR? It can have the following features: - Trigger an alarm if you don't touch the screen before the countdown ends. Countdown can restart on touch. - Alarm can trigger different actions: * Call a number (112, 911, mum :) ) * Ring/Vibrate * Execute a command - Use a voice synthesizer (festival) to talk and give GPS coordinates (or location associated with coords [note]). I would be interested in the development, and I can begin it myself but: As I understand would be better if it's developed using ETK and FSO. - Where can I get ETK and FSO doc? - Is there any interface guidelines? - How can I show the menus in the bottom and top of the screen (like Illume does)? There is any Openmoko toolkit over ETK to do this? Comments on this thing will be appreciated. (and sorry for my bad english). -- Diego. [note] Would be useful some kind of system wide human-readable locations associated with GPS coordinates (or and area centered in a GPS coordinates). The DMS, GPS located notes, GPS located profiles (sound, dim lock, scream-if-I'm-locked-and-anybody-catches-me) could use it too. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinusitis [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man%27s_switch I wouldn't have any need for such a feature, but it should be very easy to implement in a few lines of Python. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 07:56:58PM -0700, C R McClenaghan wrote: I think I tried vte from the repos and it worked. I couldn't get the built in keyboard to come up so I abandoned ASU for the time being. Since I didn't have a keyboard, by worked I mean I could start it. Chris On Jul 20, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Scott Petersen wrote: Is it just my inability to find things or is there truly no terminal application for ASU in the standard repositories? Does anybody have any recommendations for a terminal for ASU? I tried to get openmoko-terminal2 to run but it crashes every time. Crap. I was considering opening a bug report (enhancement, probably) on this-- the ASU needs a terminal. But I don't want to get smacked down with a ASU will never have a terminal, it's not a supported use case closure for it. *Will* the ASU have a terminal app that works with the Qtopia environment? Or is that something I shouldn't expect to work? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 08:20:46PM -0700, Brian C wrote: Ken Restivo wrote: Crap. I was considering opening a bug report (enhancement, probably) on this-- the ASU needs a terminal. But I don't want to get smacked down with a ASU will never have a terminal, it's not a supported use case closure for it. *Will* the ASU have a terminal app that works with the Qtopia environment? Or is that something I shouldn't expect to work? -ken 1. It's an open platform, so it's inevitable that it will have a terminal. 2. If it were not possible to have a terminal on ASU, then OpenMoko should just abandon ASU immediately. Therefore, you should feel free to open the bug. I'll wait to see if anyone responds with Sure, it has one, or you can use any terminal with it, here's how you get it to work, get it into the menu/icon/illume thing, make it use the keyboard, blah blah blah. If I can avoid annoying the devs with unnecessary bug reports, I will. Hey, I noticed that someone just added a Full-QWERTY configuration to the ASU keyboard, and a little icon for choosing which keyboard layout to use on the fly. Bravo!! Very glad to see that. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which Distro?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:05:59PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:46:15 -0700 Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: i repeat... why ONE? why does everyone think we HAVE to support just ONE? why? 1) reliability, bugfixes, fit and finish 2) critical mass of applications 3) usability 4) it's a smartphone, I want to be able to actually use it, not just load distros endlessly on it no - i'm talking toolkit. you are equating distro WITH toolkit. there is no need to do that. OM will ship with 1 image and will be building and supporting an official OM image. other people may build and support their own - this is distros here i am talking about. hey have the freedom toand more power to them! does your desktop linux distro ONLY run gtk apps? you can't use kde or qt apps? or SDL based games? or java apps? the desktop distro must also just choose ONE widget set and then all apps must use it? NO! this is wrong. please stop thinking this way. it's a limiting way of thinking. we have available to I agree with you about the widget sets. I think it's foolish to try to lock a distro to only one widget set, and thus ignore all the great apps that would otherwise be available using another widget set. That said, I want only one distro, which uses all the widget sets. My Debian system is loaded with apps that use every widget set ever known to mankind (Tk, Gtk, Qt, KDE, FLTK, whatever). that is what OM is working on - remember this is openembedded. you can install any package from an OE package feed you like! its not fixed. developers their FAVORITE languages and FAVORITE toolkits - they dont NEED to go learn anything! that is the whole point! use what you already know! Unless you really don't aspire to make anything beyond phones for systems techies, you will have to pick just one distro that the phone will ship with, won't you? You surely cannot switch distros from time to time, since your existing user and developer base will expect to see some continuity. switching distro is up to you. OM will ship a distro by default we work on one. the content and flavor of that distro is aiming at the above - support as much as possible so we dont alienate people. if we said only gtk apps in c then all the python, ruby, java, c#, qt, c++ etc. devs run away, or HAVE to change. Again, I'm very glad that the phone lets me program in Python, or C, or whatever. It was a great thrill to sit here in my terminal and be working with an interactive Python interpreter on my telephone. But, again, as a user, I want one distro that has *everyone* pulling together to make it great and solid-- using whatever programming language, widget set, etc, that pleases them. Diversity in the service of unity. The two always exist simultaneously in tension, and the great art is deciding where to apply the diversity and where to apply the unity. I'm suggesting diversity in toolkits and languages, in the service of unity of finished product. ALL the distros are based on openembedded. they are all compatible (same package manager, pakcaging systems, same base core os packages etc). they just all give you a different starting point. #hank you for the detailed and informative response! I didn't understand any of the above (which was probably very obvious), and you made it very clear to me now. It seems to be a sensible approach. May I paraphrase some of this and turn it into a Wiki page? (Where exactly to put it would be another interesting question). think of it as ubuntu vs xubuntu vs kubuntu etc. its the same os. just different starting point. same if we said qt/c++ only, or phython only, or java only. why should you be boxed into a single box and a distro is only allowed to have 1 box? why? just because every other phone maker works this way does not mean we have to. So perhaps I can clarify: what distro do you intend to ship with to end users? If it is ASU, and I must wait, thats just fine with me, but your response above seems to contradict that. ASU is what openmoko is working on. I'd appreciate your helping us out here since I'm probably not the only one confused ... what am I missing? Then ASU is the one I will work on too. I'm glad to be running it now. It seems excellent. All I need is to get the matchbox keyboard to replace the quite awful and useless keyboard that comes with ASU, and I'm all set to really enjoy this thing. the default keyboard is just as usable as the matchbox one. there is a full qwerty layout file available for it. keyboard layout is just a config file. unlike the matchbox keyboard it is also usable with a finger not just a stylus. Great! I didn't know that. Is this documented anywhere on the Wiki or should I start some page, i.e. Customizing_ASU_keyboard
Re: Better keyboard?
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:46:00PM -0400, Matthew Lane wrote: Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote: Do you want to redesign the matchbox keyboard or use a different one? Feel free to modify any of the keypads on the projects page. I can actually help with gtKeypad and have a patch in the works that will allow changing of key size with a config file. On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 20:32 -0400, Matthew Lane wrote: arne anka wrote: http://www.ginguppin.de/node/15 I would like to know how to redesign the keyboard to give it bigger buttons so that I can use my finger instead of the stylus? The current matchbox keyboard's keys are way too small. I honestly don't care if I redesign it or just get a new one. I like the matchbox keyboard because it has all of the keys that I'll need for terminal use, but the drawback is they all have to fit! I saw a screenshot of a bigger keyboard with circular buttons used on the Neo1973, which keyboard is that? I've just been informed that the keyboard in the ASU image does in fact have all the keys needed to use a terminal, and also they're able to be used without a stylus. The .kbd files are editable text files and can be completely customized. After playing around with it a bit, I'll probably abandon matchbox entirely. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM AT command to disable/change caller ID?
My old, cheap 7-11 ATT pay-as-you-go Nokia phone had a neat feature which would disable the Caller ID. Are there any AT commands I can issue on the FR to do the same feature? I'm guessing it was a feature of the GSM modem, or maybe it was an instruction to the carrier network, issued via the modem. I need this because the number I use for my FR is *not* my real number-- my main number is a VOIP number and I have it forwarded to the cellphone. It'd be REALLY GREAT if there was a way to change the caller ID number to be my actual main phone number, not the phone disposable number of my pay-as-you-go cellphone plan. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS external antenna socket
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:38:48AM -0700, C R McClenaghan wrote: Joseph Reeves schrieb: It's mmcx; there's plenty of commercially available antennas available for cheap that will fit. What's the connector that is on the *outside* of the FR? And is that for GPS? Or WiFi? Or GSM? Or some combination thereof? Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Attachment: application/x-qtopia-sms-1
I'm getting SMS's on the FR (using the ASU image). Some look great, and others are in some weird MIME format: Attachment: application/x-qtopia-sms-1 How do I decode and read these? Why are some SMS's OK and others are not? Is this a bug and should I report it? Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS problems, summary
Not the greatest bit of WIKI formatting, but it's there at least and linked from the GPS page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_GPS_Problems -ken -- On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:49:43PM -0700, Justin Wong wrote: Great post. Maybe you can put it on the wiki somewhere, so it's visible to more people. Cheers! Justin On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Alasal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A summary of everything related to the GPS problem. Does the people of Openmoko know the problem? - Yes. Do they work on the problem? - Yes, they are actively searching for a solution. What is the problem? - The Openmoko Freerunner have a long TTFF with the SD card in the phone. So it takes a long time (10min+) before you get your first GPS data. Wat is TTFF? - This is the time to first fix of the GPS. This is the time the GPS has needed to get the first clue on where you are on planet earth. So you have to do this only once. After you have a FF (first fix), you can get more fixes without any problems with the SD card in the phone. So if we have a first fix, the SD card isn't blocking the GPS anymore? - yes, the SD card isn't blocking the GPS if we have a first fix. (Some people even claim it's more stable) Does they have a solution? - yes. Their is already a highly alpha software workaround. The software just disables the SD card when the GPS tries to get it's first fix They are also examine a hardware solution. Do we have to return our Freerunners to Openmoko? - Probably not, because the software workaround should work too. But we can't read of the SD card when the GPS is on? - Wrong, you will be able to read the SD card when the GPS is on. You will probably not be able to read the SD card when you're starting the GPS (appr. 30 sec), because the GPS will only block the SD card when it's searching it's first fix. After that you will be able to read the SD card again. Is their a better software solution? - Maybe. From reading the mailing list, I have understood that half the Openmoko team is looking into this bug. All this information is only 1 à 2 days old and the bug is also young, so I suspect they can finetune the software workaround and make it only slowdown the SD card or even better. Did Openmoko test the GPS with a SD card in it? - yes Whey didn't they find it while testing the Freerunner? - Because they have to do the tests with a fake GPS signal and with that signal it worked. (In a fab you haven't a decent GPS signal) They already have modified the test, so it correspond the GPS signal better. Summary of the summary: You will be able to use the SD card in the same time of the GPS except for the first appr 30 seconds. (And that's the worst case, because maybe Openmoko can find better hacks/fixes) ps: I have read all the mails about the GPS problem, but I'm still human. If there is a fault or wrong conclusion in this summary, please let the community know. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What is exposure?
On my phone (with ASU software), there is an app called Exposure. Clicking on it does nothing. What is this app and what is it supposed to do? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which Distro?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 06:17:07AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:28:52 -0700 Vijay Vaidyanathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hi Carsten ... On Jul 16, 2008, at 6:14 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: all are included. learn the one u like most - that solves the problem u want to solve best! stop thinking that we will only ver ship and support 1 widget set and then u have to learn that. you will be waiting a very long time. with FSO above you STILL will need to make a choice. back-end system functions are stuffed behind a dbus api. front end (widget set, toolkits whatever) is STILL your problem. Thank you ... okay, I think I see what you are saying, but regrettably, that confuses me even further, so let me rephrase mine (and probably Dirk's) question. Assuming that your aspirations for the phone are to create something that is more than just a tinkertoy for a few systems nerds like me, and that you are hoping to eventually (but in the near future) attract widespread interest from end users fed up with current options, surely you will have to support just a single supported UI and development platform? Even developers of apps will want to code to one UI, one toolkit etc to ensure their apps continue to work with new factory released phones. i repeat... why ONE? why does everyone think we HAVE to support just ONE? why? 1) reliability, bugfixes, fit and finish 2) critical mass of applications 3) usability 4) it's a smartphone, I want to be able to actually use it, not just load distros endlessly on it does your desktop linux distro ONLY run gtk apps? you can't use kde or qt apps? or SDL based games? or java apps? the desktop distro must also just choose ONE widget set and then all apps must use it? NO! this is wrong. please stop thinking this way. it's a limiting way of thinking. we have available to I agree with you about the widget sets. I think it's foolish to try to lock a distro to only one widget set, and thus ignore all the great apps that would otherwise be available using another widget set. That said, I want only one distro, which uses all the widget sets. My Debian system is loaded with apps that use every widget set ever known to mankind (Tk, Gtk, Qt, KDE, FLTK, whatever). developers their FAVORITE languages and FAVORITE toolkits - they dont NEED to go learn anything! that is the whole point! use what you already know! Unless you really don't aspire to make anything beyond phones for systems techies, you will have to pick just one distro that the phone will ship with, won't you? You surely cannot switch distros from time to time, since your existing user and developer base will expect to see some continuity. switching distro is up to you. OM will ship a distro by default we work on one. the content and flavor of that distro is aiming at the above - support as much as possible so we dont alienate people. if we said only gtk apps in c then all the python, ruby, java, c#, qt, c++ etc. devs run away, or HAVE to change. Again, I'm very glad that the phone lets me program in Python, or C, or whatever. It was a great thrill to sit here in my terminal and be working with an interactive Python interpreter on my telephone. But, again, as a user, I want one distro that has *everyone* pulling together to make it great and solid-- using whatever programming language, widget set, etc, that pleases them. Diversity in the service of unity. The two always exist simultaneously in tension, and the great art is deciding where to apply the diversity and where to apply the unity. I'm suggesting diversity in toolkits and languages, in the service of unity of finished product. same if we said qt/c++ only, or phython only, or java only. why should you be boxed into a single box and a distro is only allowed to have 1 box? why? just because every other phone maker works this way does not mean we have to. So perhaps I can clarify: what distro do you intend to ship with to end users? If it is ASU, and I must wait, thats just fine with me, but your response above seems to contradict that. ASU is what openmoko is working on. I'd appreciate your helping us out here since I'm probably not the only one confused ... what am I missing? Then ASU is the one I will work on too. I'm glad to be running it now. It seems excellent. All I need is to get the matchbox keyboard to replace the quite awful and useless keyboard that comes with ASU, and I'm all set to really enjoy this thing. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 04:18:42PM +0200, Benedikt Schindler wrote: hi, i think the openmoko team is doing a great job. and everyone was onto it, to have a fast and good solution. so i think the real interesting question now is: Had someone tested Andy's fix-force-sdcard-clk-off-when-idle patch yet? Does it solve the problem? And how many mA does that patch save ;) (I still couldn't test patches. my phone hopefully arrives on 27th) so thanks for the work Joerg, Andy and the hole rest of the OM team. and also thanks to the man who found out that it is a SD-Card problem. (i still must have a fish somewhere, for all the guys who think that this is so bad and that it's impossible that the OM team delivered such a phone) The kind of error that caused the GPS problem is very common in *every* new commercial product development. The severity varies, but I've been bitten by it many time. I think the devs at OpenMoko handled this one very, very well. And, I think that most of the users handled it very, very well too. The heroes of this story are of course whomever at OpenMoko came up with and implemented the fix, but also the user in Germany who isolated the bug down to the SD card through careful testing. That is the kind of cooperation that shows the value of Free Software. What was the time diff between the moment that the SD card was isolated as the source of the problem, and when a software fix was found, tested, and made available? Two days? One day? That's amazing. Hats off to everyone. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:33:18AM -0700, Adam Talbot wrote: dimlock != suspend :-) If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking down power. When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of the GMS modem, and ram. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Suspend int32:0 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Hal was not provided by any .service files OK, what is the equiavelent to this for the ASU image? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
CRCFAIL?
Poking around in dmesg output, I see lots of these: CRCFAIL 0x1a3f CRCFAIL 0x1a3f But no indication of where they're coming from. They seem to occur at random times during boot. What is CRC failing, and what, if anything, might be broken by that? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM AT command to disable/change caller ID?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:12:51AM +0200, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:50:48 +0200, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My old, cheap 7-11 ATT pay-as-you-go Nokia phone had a neat feature which would disable the Caller ID. Are there any AT commands I can issue on the FR to do the same feature? I'm guessing it was a feature of the GSM modem, or maybe it was an instruction to the carrier network, issued via the modem. GSM features like this one are controlled by “dialling” certain special numbers: http://web.telia.com/~u47904776/gsmkode.htm#nummerpres Note that not every cell provider implements this, and some charge for it. Thanks! The command appears to be CLIR, and, unfortunately, there's no global setting for it. #31#PhoneNumber, means I have to type it before each call. On land phones, there's a *70 (or is it *71), to disable caller ID globally. So it appears that the Nokia is prepending #31# before each phone number it dials. Is there some way to get the Qtopia dialer (ASU software) to prepend this dialing string? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replacing ASU/Qtopia keyboard with matchbox keyboard?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:05:06PM +0200, nick loeve wrote: Hi On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:04:11PM +0200, nick loeve wrote: Hi On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:17 PM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've installed the matchbox keyboard on my ASU installation, and I love it. matchbox-keyboard-im - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - qtopia-phone-x11-libinputmatch - 4.3.2+git3+876ed02211e50547856491ad54a75299b62efe4c-r31 - Only problem is, how can I get the apps to use it as an input method instead of its own built-in QWERTY keyboard? Actually clicking on the keyboard's icon in the launcher is a disaster; it gives me three instances of the keyboard and fills up the screen so much that there's no way to open any other app, the only solution is to reboot the phone. Thanks. -ken I think the matchbox keyboard only works in matchbox without changes. You might wanna checkout the work the guys at INdT are doing for the mamona distro in regards to input methods and matchbox-keyboard http://dev.openbossa.org/mamona/gitweb http://dev.openbossa.org/mamona/gitweb?p=mamona.git;a=commit;h=78e9f72d21842297e29c2b627fed9e1f3e495a0d Another distro?! *sigh* The bane of Open Source-- everyone working on his or her own sandbox instead of together on getting one distro solid and complete. Thanks. I didn't see this one listed in the distros Wiki page. Should I add it? Well it is not targeted at the OM devices, at least at the moment it is primarily for nokia internet tablets. But they have been working on some similar issues with matchbox-keyboard and different UI toolkits and window managers Thanks. I didn't see anything there that jumped out as solving this problem I guess my question should be more specific: 1) How do ASU apps decide that they need a keyboard? 2) What process do they use to bring one up? 3) How could the Matchbox keyboard be called by that instead of the default Qtopia keybaord? Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tmobile wifi voice calls
First we need a phone app that supports SIP. I would very very much like to use the FR as a SIP phone. I don't need T-Mobile for that (and neither does anyone else), we just need a working phone app that supports VOIP as a back end, and access to open WiFi AP's (plenty of those around). I have a Diamondcard/Ekiga account for phone calls to the POTS network, and it works great and is dirt cheap. I wouldn't want to deal with proprietary crap like whatever T-Mobile is going to foist upon people. Is anyone porting Ekiga to the FR? I saw a component in ASU that looks like a VOIP back end for the Qtopia phone app; that'd kick ass if it was working. Any ideas what I'd need to do to get it to work? -ken On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 07:14:09PM -0400, c d r wrote: I'll begin to pursue this via the provided links in my copious spare time. Anyone interested in an ongoing dialog let me know. how well integrated is it? i was planning on using a moko, primarily via SIP/IAX but with T-Mo prepaid SIM for occasional GSM needs if it can seamlessly roll between the two, preferring wifi/sip (or their equiv) when available, that would kick ass Chris On Jul 17, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Al Johnson wrote: On Thursday 17 July 2008, Carl Karsten wrote: Make and receive unlimited nationwide calls over Wi-Fi with your home phone. http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans-detail.aspx?tp=tb1rate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone know if the FR will work with whatever VoIP protocol t- mobile uses? does anyone even know what protocol it uses? I found this: The technology T-Mobile is using is called Unlicensed Mobile Access, or UMA. UMA takes the protocol used by GSM handsets and encapsulates it into an IPSec VPN for transmission over the public Internet. The VPN is authenticated using the subscriber's SIM card via a protocol called EAP-SIM. http://www.voip-weblog.com/50226711/is_the_linksys_wrtu54g_voip.php Nice prompt for a little background reading. From what I see it seems unlikely. strongSWAN appears to support IKEv2 and EAP-SIM but somehow I doubt T-Mobile will hand out the certificate needed in addition to the SIM. The bit that looks tricky is the signalling part to tell the mobile phone network that it can pass the call data over to the wifi connection. This is the sort of thing that's normally buried in the cellular modem, and I don't know of an open version of that. I could be pleasantly surprised though - it would be a good addition to have. [1] http://www.embedded.com/underthehood/205916513 [2] http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6470081317.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM AT command to disable/change caller ID?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:09:19AM +0200, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:33:46 +0200, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The command appears to be CLIR, and, unfortunately, there's no global setting for it. #31#PhoneNumber, means I have to type it before each call. On land phones, there's a *70 (or is it *71), to disable caller ID globally. So it appears that the Nokia is prepending #31# before each phone number it dials. Sorry, I was wrong, the permanent setting for CLIR is controlled by a GSM modem command AT+CLIR. Thanks! Is it persistent across phone reboots? Or do I need to add that to some kind of connect script that runs every time the phone powers up? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
How to find the board revision?
I'm thinking about flashing the Uboot to get working APM capability. The instructions on the Flashing_openmoko WIKI page say that it is very important to only flash the uboot image that matches the hardware revision of the phone (obviously), but it doesn't say *how* to find out what board revision you have. I'd be glad to add that to the page with the instructions on how to flash, if someone could tell me where to find the revision. I remember stumbling across it somewhere (probably in /proc), but I've since forgotten. Thanks. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Does the Diversity app use gpsd?
I have the ASU, which includes a Diversity app to do GPS stuff. Does this app use gpsd? Does it need gpsd? Does gpsd conflict with it? Thanks -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to find the board revision?
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:29:12AM +0930, Rod Whitby wrote: Ken Restivo wrote: I'm thinking about flashing the Uboot to get working APM capability. The instructions on the Flashing_openmoko WIKI page say that it is very important to only flash the uboot image that matches the hardware revision of the phone (obviously), but it doesn't say *how* to find out what board revision you have. I'd be glad to add that to the page with the instructions on how to flash, if someone could tell me where to find the revision. I remember stumbling across it somewhere (probably in /proc), but I've since forgotten. cat /proc/cpuinfo Thanks. Mine says rev 0350. Is that Revision 3? Should I use the v3 version of the uBoot? I want to make absolutely sure. And to add this to the Wiki to save others the trouble. -ken Processor : ARM920T rev 0 (v4l) BogoMIPS: 199.47 Features: swp half thumb CPU implementer : 0x41 CPU architecture: 4T CPU variant : 0x1 CPU part: 0x920 CPU revision: 0 Cache type : write-back Cache clean : cp15 c7 ops Cache lockdown : format A Cache format: Harvard I size : 16384 I assoc : 64 I line length : 32 I sets : 8 D size : 16384 D assoc : 64 D line length : 32 D sets : 8 Hardware: GTA02 Revision: 0350 Serial : ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Issuing GSM commands in the ASU environment?
I need to get to /dev/ttySAC0 in order to find the hardware revision, and also to issue my caller-ID-suppression command. On the ASU software, lsof reports that /dev/ttySAC0 is in use by the qpe process. How can I shut that down so that it releases the lock on the tty? If I just killall qpe, it leaves the port open, apparently, and cu won't open it after that.# -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can you help the Openmoko booth at Linuxworld, August 4-7, in San Francisco?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 01:52:25PM -0700, Michael Shiloh wrote: Openmoko will be at Linuxworld, and needs to staff two booths: One in the main vendor area, and another in the Linux Garage. As we are a small understaffed team, we would love it if some of you could commit to helping us. If you are on this mailing list, you already know enough to answer the most common question: What is Openmoko?. As for more technical questions, don't worry - you already know a lot, and you can always defer questions to one of us. In return we plan some sort of appreciation, perhaps in the form of T-shirts or some other Openmoko swag, and you will be the proud owner of our undying gratitude :-) You will also be able to ask Steve all those difficult questions you've been saving up. It's also a great opportunity for us to get to know you, no matter how much or little time you can commit to helping. LinuxWorld is August 4-7, in San Francisco. I could do it on the 6th or 7th, for a few hours in the morning. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Keyboard missing forward-slash key
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:07:10PM +0100, Andy Selby wrote: I can enter vi to start editing the file, but having switched to editing mode I can't exit it (back to command mode) because there's no Escape key on the keyboard! Thus I can't save the edited file! While it won't help at the moment, qtopia has included a terminal on its latest image which has a fully featured keyboard i.e tab autocomplete and all the symbols. Thanks Lorn, I was just about to post, asking how to install a .qpe package (qterminal) when I found it on there, my buying of a freerunner has just come a little closer. Where can I find this qterminal, or the link to the page the explains how to install qpe images? I'm using the Qtopia image now and am desperately in need of a terminal emulator. A linux phone keyboard pretty much has to have control and escape at least, plus obviously the slashes and pipe symbols, and for some apps the function keys might be nice. It sounds like the OpenMoko multitap is easy to configure to get those, which is great. I hope the Qtopia keyboard is too. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Freerunner, factory image - Registering...
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 09:17:49PM +0200, arne anka wrote: I ran into that immediately. The terminal is unusable without a slash key. That tells me that nobody is actually using that terminal app to do anything, but rather that it's only been used tethered by USB. But I looked and couldn't find a bug report on this. Is it possible that nobody has yet filed a bug report to add a slash key to the keyboard? maybe when subscribing to the list a big fat mail should urge every new user to search the archives before assuming the worst. the keyboard issue (both where to find the / on that tiny tap keyboard and how to install a more complete keyboard) have been discussed several times the last days. I'm sorry about that. I searched, and did not find. I will file a bug report asking to please change the default multitap config file to include the keys that any normal Linux user would find impossible to live without: slash, pipe, control, escape, and alt at the very least. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Bluetooth long in the tooth?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on 0 Huh? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on 0 Hmm. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# hciconfig [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# hciconfig [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# Nothing? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# uname -a Linux om-gta02 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Mon Jul 14 02:13:01 CEST 2008 armv4tl unknown I'm trying to follow the instructions in the manually using bluetooth wiki page, but keep getting stuck-- the device won't power on. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth long in the tooth?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:06:06AM +0100, Valerio Valerio wrote: Hi, this works fine for me in the FR: echo 1 /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on echo 0 /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-bt.0/reset After that check hciconfig. That did it! Thanks! It wasn't in the wiki page. Gr. I'm updating the wiki page right now. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:06:07PM +0200, Jay Vaughan wrote: These are all great ideas and would be very helpful for us. We are a small company. And really try to focus all we can on our products. Community help to make these more approachable is something that would make us all very grateful. Well I'm certainly trying to help in any way I can, while I wait patiently for my first Freerunner to arrive so I can get on with developing some nice apps for it, too .. Let me know if there is anything specific you think we (Openmoko) could do to help get this all started. I think the main thing is we should set up a site thats just fanboix oriented.. and I mean that in a positive way, not derogatorily. Basically what I'd like to see is something similar to DSFanboy (dsfanboy.com), which exists for Nintendo DS owners to check regularly .. if we had such a site set up that could be easily contributed to with stories and articles and whatnot, it would help a great deal. I will continue to glean info from the mailing lists, and in a little while will consider setting up mokofanboix.org, and maybe take it from there .. unless someone else is more qualified to do so? This kind of fork in the documentation and community is pretty typical in the case of a commercial product that isn't necessarily friendly to hackers. So there's an unofficial fan page where enthusiasts can discuss undocumented/unsupported features, odd uses, hacks, cracks, complain about the manufacturer, diss the users of competing products, and the like. The fan site is owned by the user commmunity and is somewhat isolated from being censored or easily closed down by the manufacturer. In the Free/Open software world, it's usually very different. It's more typical for that user community to be an integral part of the project itself. There is a much blurrier line between users and developers, and that's pretty much the whole point. Again, I'll point to the OpenWRT Wiki (and forums, and IRC channel, bug tracker, and mailing list) as a great example of what I consider to be excellent documentation and support for a free project. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 07:12:40AM -0400, Tim Schmidt wrote: Awesome. At least we now know what's causing the problem. Is there a chance that changing the orientation of the internal antenna slightly (perhaps through very minor modifications to the inside of the plastic case) could rectify the issue? Or just slipping in some kind of extra sheilding in there, covering up the SD card? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replacing ASU/Qtopia keyboard with matchbox keyboard?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:04:11PM +0200, nick loeve wrote: Hi On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:17 PM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've installed the matchbox keyboard on my ASU installation, and I love it. matchbox-keyboard-im - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - qtopia-phone-x11-libinputmatch - 4.3.2+git3+876ed02211e50547856491ad54a75299b62efe4c-r31 - Only problem is, how can I get the apps to use it as an input method instead of its own built-in QWERTY keyboard? Actually clicking on the keyboard's icon in the launcher is a disaster; it gives me three instances of the keyboard and fills up the screen so much that there's no way to open any other app, the only solution is to reboot the phone. Thanks. -ken I think the matchbox keyboard only works in matchbox without changes. You might wanna checkout the work the guys at INdT are doing for the mamona distro in regards to input methods and matchbox-keyboard http://dev.openbossa.org/mamona/gitweb http://dev.openbossa.org/mamona/gitweb?p=mamona.git;a=commit;h=78e9f72d21842297e29c2b627fed9e1f3e495a0d Another distro?! *sigh* The bane of Open Source-- everyone working on his or her own sandbox instead of together on getting one distro solid and complete. Thanks. I didn't see this one listed in the distros Wiki page. Should I add it? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 07:17:54PM +0100, Hugo Mills wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:27:31PM +, Curtis Vaughan wrote: Since Ken really liked OpenWRT's Wiki, I looked at it and see they use MoinMoin. So, I am willing to set up MoinMoin on a server to be used as an FR community wiki. The quality of a wiki has little to do with the Wiki engine on which it runs. It is far more to do with having a highly proactive group of wiki editors, who between them read every single change made to the wiki, and can make suitable cross-references, indexes, corrections, updates and so forth to ensure that the content is easy to find, read and use. If you don't have such a group of people (and I'm not talking about OpenMoko employees here), it doesn't matter what wiki engine you use, or what website you have, your wiki won't go anywhere useful. Exactly. There is a lot of good information there, it just needs to be organized, and the bad (old, outdated, confusing) information has to be pruned out. I think all it needs is for a few people to jump in and go, Ack, this is awful, I'm going to clean it up. Every day. Several times a day, for a few minutes each time. I'd be glad to start by doing a 1973-ectomy: moving all references to an obsolete, no-longer-manufactured prototype somewhere else in the Wiki. Another clever thing that OpenWRT guys do is they wrote a little bot so that a notification of any forum post or question gets inserted into the #openwrt IRC channel. Then they jump in immediately and answer it (and it draws other users/developers who might idling in the channel to go read/answer it too). The annoyance of getting blasted immediately (via IRC) provides an incentive for eliminating FAQ's by cleaning up the docs (and the software). Something like that might be useful for Wiki entries too, or even mailing list posts. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Enter sleep mode with menu item
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:39:21PM +0200, Joachim Breitner wrote: Hi, on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata I described how to put the Freerunner to sleep from the terminal, and how to add a menu item for that. It would be nice though if this could be added to the neod menu, next to “lock screen”. Greetings, Joachim Cool! May I suggest creating a page called SleepMenu and putting your instructions and code in there? Or if you like, I could do that for you. Might make it easier for people to find it that way. -keb ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:19:38PM -0600, Scott Derrick wrote: I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people are seeing? I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll concerning users of mobile devices. What was the number 1 issue, far and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see improvement. Yes, battery life. The times I've seen posted here are pathetic! 8 hours of standby! Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time! 8 hours of standby makes the FR a toy at best. I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept a sim card, or make a call, get a gps fix, etc.. But I seriously can't use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life. Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software? I wasn't sure if you were looking for solutions or just wanted to vent, but yeah, the battery lifetime is pretty anemic. I was going to ask what was the duty cycle of that USB connector on the phone, since I find myself constantly plugging it in and unplugging it. Kind of like I used to do with my old Palm III back a decade ago, because if you let the battery wear down then you lost all your data (talk about design flaws... that was an awful one...). Another thing I noticed was that when I pull the phone out of its little neoprene condom, it almost always is lit up and not in sleep mode, and it also almost always has the Diversity app running (I have no idea why). Apparently the touchscreen is getting bumped and keeps waking it up when its trying to sleep. But one of the solutions may be possible to do in software: make the lock (aux?) button dim the screen AND put the thing into low-power standby, and do NOT allow any stray rubbing up against the touchscreen to wake up the phone from sleep. Any ideas how hard it might be to do that, or where in the software it'd need to happen (i.e. userspace, kernel, uboot, etc.)? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Different ways to boot an image?
My new FreeRunner is working fine. I pulled the SIM out of my el-cheapo Nokia 7-11 SpeakOut (ATT) pay-as-you-go phone, and put it in the Neo, and lo and behold I'm making and receiving calls. I'm trying to understand what are the different ways to boot a kernel and rootfs image, and what are the pros and cons of each. I'd be glad to turn this into a WIKI page and/or edit existing ones. But first I'll ask here. So far I've come up with this list of ways to boot: 1) From the flash image on the phone, which is flashed there: a) Via DFU b) Via zmodem or srecs c) Via the JTAG d) Via TFTP? (I don't recall) 2) From NFS boot (there's already a wiki page for this IIRC) 3) From a rootfs and/or kernel image located on a FAT or EXT2 partition on the SD card (I don't remember where I saw this documented, and can't seem to find it now) 4) From RAM a) Loaded via DFU? b) Loaded via TFTP? c) Loaded via SD card? Is that an exhaustive list? Are there other ways to do it? Anyway, there are some size and other limitations to the RAM-based method, I'm sure, and I vaguely remember seeing them mentioned, but don't remember where. I'm asking because I have a (mostly) working image right now, and I want to experiment with running some different ones without flashing away the one that works. Thanks! -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Freerunner, factory image - Registering...
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 07:26:26PM +0100, Stroller wrote: Hi there, So my Freerunner arrived this evening, I plugged it in and started charging and it powered itself on. I _love_ that kernel messages are displayed during boot-up, and the plastic of the Freerunner's case has a really nice feel to it. Anyway, once booted to the factory image I get continuously a Registering... message in the top-left corner of the Home screen. After 30 minutes or so this message persists. Mine did that until I popped a SIM in. Then it registered and got onto the network easily. Cell phone reception in my flat is always a little poor - I have to walk to the window if I want an intelligible conversation - but all other phones have connected to the phone network fine, SMS'd and rung on incoming calls fine when located at my desk. Could this indicate that my SIM is amongst those which the Freerunner doesn't like? It is a UK O2 SIM, at least a couple of years old, probably several and perhaps 7 or 8. It has been used last in my Sony-Ericsson P990i which is 3G, but I have no idea if that phone has been used at full speed. I find that when I received this P990i, c 15 months ago, O2 sent me a new SIM which is marked as 3G, but I have never used it as the phone seemed to work fine with the old one. It is very nice that a terminal app is included on the default image, but I cannot work out how to enter a forward-slash (/), so cannot list /var/log and see if there's anything interesting in there. Would I be best advised to set up USB networking and log in via SSH to see I ran into that immediately. The terminal is unusable without a slash key. That tells me that nobody is actually using that terminal app to do anything, but rather that it's only been used tethered by USB. But I looked and couldn't find a bug report on this. Is it possible that nobody has yet filed a bug report to add a slash key to the keyboard? I'm thinking that / might go nicely at the end of the 1 key, where most of the punctuation is. I'd expect it to be a one-line patch adding a char to the end of an array somewhere; I'll dig around. what's going on? Having plugged it into the wall and started it charging for the first time I am reluctant to unplug it until it is fully charged, as per the instructions. So any suggestions of how to Mine didn't come with instructions, so I just started using it and then plugged it in to charge it up. Now my battery shows 96% and never gets higher than that. It also gets down to 63% after sitting on idle for 6 hours. Is that normal battery drainage or did I botch the battery? Also, this looks like a standard cellphone battery (same one that's in my Nokia?). Will any cellphone battery that fits that port work in the FR, or does it need a special one? debug this from the phone's own console would be appreciated. I was looking forward to using it as a little handheld WiFi SSH terminal emulator. I'm sure it'll get there eventually. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:47:40PM -0600, Vinc Duran wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Curtis Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:47:51 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Jay Vaughan wrote: This stood out for me The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki... Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ? If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and schedule it for updating? I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its productive to do so .. What I would like to see is something like an mokofanboix.org website come up that has the following: - Daily blog news akin to the good ol' slashdot, of news from the openmoko scene, gleaned from careful inspection of the mailing lists, of IRC, of the codebase, of code delta's, etc. - Public free Repository of all the latest and greatest 'cool apps' found for OpenMoko - Public forum for discussion of the news. This is, of course, sorta what we've got with things like planet.openmoko.org (which I check daily), combined with the Scaredycat repo's and other such things, but .. for newcomers .. I don't think any of this is as easily approachable as it would be if it were all put under a single umbrella that is a bit more of an 'openmoko pop culture' site than what we've got right now .. Jay These are all great ideas and would be very helpful for us. We are a small company. And really try to focus all we can on our products. Community help to make these more approachable is something that would make us all very grateful. Let me know if there is anything specific you think we (Openmoko) could do to help get this all started. -Sean At this point it seems to me there are 2 approaches: 1) The preferred would be to develop the wiki such that members can set it up themselves. 2) Have a 3rd-party site per Jay's suggestion that accomplishes that. I have the resources to set up such a site, but I definitely do not want to do anything counter-productive. I would really like to see OM do what they can as I prefer a one-stop solution as opposed to having to visit numerous sites to find solutions. As an example, I have a Nokia N770, and I found the maemo.org site rather well organized for finding solutions, as well as third-party apps. I'm only mentioning it as a possible guide. Respectfully, Curtis Vaughan (no relation to Jay - I don't think) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community As a *user* I'd really like it if there were always an easy to find place for what is known to work. It would be better for my piece of mind if it were something OM. V By far, the best Wiki I've *ever* seen-- indeed the best documentation I've ever seen for *any* Open Source project, ever (I'm not kidding, it's really that good)--, is the OpenWRT Wiki. It's amazing. Everything is right there. It's cleaned and scrubbed and pruned constantly. No cruft, no confusing outdated information, no ambiguity about what works or what doesn't or got decided or didn't. The instructions are dead simple and unambiguous and geared towards the end user. There are recipes there for just about any weird thing you'd possibly want to try with the product. There are detailed tables with every bit of hardware compatibility information you'd ever want. It is a work of art. And it's maintained by the developers, mostly, but with a very good sense of what a new user would need to know. It does reflect on the product itself too, which is also very well organized, slick, reliable, and clean. I've had Linksys boxes running here for years on OpenWRT. It was easy to install and configure and it just works. I can't speak highly enough of the project or the documentation. If the OpenMoko Wiki could be like that, it'd be real quiet in userland, because instead of pelting you with questions, they'd be busy using and enjoying and hacking their phones. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
