Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Dear Members,

According to information Gathered, PTA (Pakistan Telecom Authority) had a
directive to all members to refrain from using "if any is using" Ip
resources from any continent, especially AFRINIC.

Following the letters sent we gathered this info. More Details will be
shared in due course.

The corrupt are accusing the Righteous as Corrupted!

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 9:12 AM Noah  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:23 AM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>>
>> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear,
>> and read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
>> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
>> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
>> objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
>> can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.
>>
>>
>> I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.
>>
>> There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company
>> in exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe.
>>
>
> Give us a break Owen, you really must think, folks in this part of the
> world are clueless, don't you?
>
> At least you have indicated finally that you have a clue as to what Amin
> has been driving at, this far.
>
> Noah
>
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Noah]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:23 AM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
>
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
> objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
> can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.
>
>
> I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.
>
> There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company
> in exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe.
>

Give us a break Owen, you really must think, folks in this part of the
world are clueless, don't you?

At least you have indicated finally that you have a clue as to what Amin
has been driving at, this far.

Noah
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

In simple terms, it seems you are much aware of the conduct, I can conclude
or at least assume that when I read between the lines. Tracking the history
of the offers, the offer of investment was the last step taken by them to
Legalise this. Contracts between businesses are defined by intentions, they
want to get the right of access to the myafrinic.net account and vote on
the members' behalf while in return they pay an amount of money
(considered) investment of 1% share to legalize this process. mind you the
shares 1% came at a very recent period. Even with this contract of 1% it is
still contestable and very fragile to stand as a legal deed.

Going through your emails, seems you are much aware of this, otherwise how
did you bring the investment issue up?

Have a good day and this discussion is going nowhere, it is your good
fortune I am having coffee now and decided to reply to you.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 8:15 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
>
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
> objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
> can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.
>
>
> I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.
>
> There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company
> in exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe. I am not aware of
> any situations in which any such line has been crossed. I have not
> participated in any such situation on either side of that line other than
> as a normal shareholder in publicly traded (and a few private) companies,
> none of which are based in Africa or Afrinic members to the best of my
> knowledge (though at least one operates in Africa).
>
> I understand the topics you wish to pursue, but those topics are asked and
> answered and have nothing to do with me. As such, I’m not engaging in a
> discussion of those topics.
>
> OTOH, I am willing to engage in a discussion of the misdeeds of the board
> and the need for the membership and community of AFRINIC to take back
> control of their RIR and restore accountability and create greater
> transparency.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:12 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2022, at 06:25 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> The discussion here is not about the board.
>>
>>
>> It is as far as I am concerned.
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
> Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.
>>
>>
>> The board has committed both.
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has committed only unethical/immoral and
>> not illegal acts.
>>
>
> To be clear, I have committed neither to the best of my knowledge.
>
>
>> Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our
>> role as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such
>> organization using bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while
>> fighting it on the other hand,
>>
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has no open litigation against AFRINIC,
>> so I’m not sure what you mean here.
>>
>> How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them
>> ipv4 /24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they
>> can use it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This
>> pool of ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
>> - join the organization
>> - sign NDA
>> - sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust”
>> - sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC
>>
>>
>> I have no idea. I have no relationship with NRS.
>>
>
> As I understand it now, the petition is not against AFRINIC, but in favor
> of calling an SGMM in order to pass certain resolutions to restore
> functionality to AFRINIC.
>
>
>> Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still
>> working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to
>> put a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.
>>
>>
>> There are still open questions around the ethics of how Microsoft managed
>> to “comply” with ARIN policies in justifying the need for the IPv4
>> addresses they acquired from Nortel.
>>
>> The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why
>> would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If
>> you say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I
>> would say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just
>> like how we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero
>> somewhere called Superman.
>>
>>
>> Again, you should ask the NRS directly. As I said, I have no affiliation
>> with NRS.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong  

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> 
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and 
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe, 
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board 
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically, objectively, 
> and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we can follow as 
> members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.

I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.

There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company in 
exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe. I am not aware of any 
situations in which any such line has been crossed. I have not participated in 
any such situation on either side of that line other than as a normal 
shareholder in publicly traded (and a few private) companies, none of which are 
based in Africa or Afrinic members to the best of my knowledge (though at least 
one operates in Africa).

I understand the topics you wish to pursue, but those topics are asked and 
answered and have nothing to do with me. As such, I’m not engaging in a 
discussion of those topics.

OTOH, I am willing to engage in a discussion of the misdeeds of the board and 
the need for the membership and community of AFRINIC to take back control of 
their RIR and restore accountability and create greater transparency.

> 
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:12 AM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 19, 2022, at 06:25 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> The discussion here is not about the board.
> 
> It is as far as I am concerned.
>  
>  
>> Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.
> 
> The board has committed both.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has committed only unethical/immoral and not 
> illegal acts.

To be clear, I have committed neither to the best of my knowledge.

> 
>> Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our role 
>> as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such organization 
>> using bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while fighting it on 
>> the other hand,
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has no open litigation against AFRINIC, so 
> I’m not sure what you mean here.
> 
>> How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them ipv4 
>> /24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they can use 
>> it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This pool of 
>> ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
>> - join the organization
>> - sign NDA
>> - sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust” 
>> - sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC
> 
> I have no idea. I have no relationship with NRS.

As I understand it now, the petition is not against AFRINIC, but in favor of 
calling an SGMM in order to pass certain resolutions to restore functionality 
to AFRINIC.

> 
>> Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still 
>> working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to put 
>> a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.
> 
> There are still open questions around the ethics of how Microsoft managed to 
> “comply” with ARIN policies in justifying the need for the IPv4 addresses 
> they acquired from Nortel.
> 
>> The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why 
>> would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If 
>> you say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I 
>> would say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just 
>> like how we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero 
>> somewhere called Superman.
> 
> Again, you should ask the NRS directly. As I said, I have no affiliation with 
> NRS.
> 
> Owen
> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 04:51, Amin Dayekh >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to their 
>>> allegations.
>> 
>> As I have previously stated… I have no affiliation with NRS and find their 
>> conduct to be both immoral and unethical. 
>> 
>> Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the board has repeatedly 
>> acted against the bylaws, the RSA, the CPM, and the companies act.
>> 
>> Simply because one (of many) accusers has acted unethically does not 
>> invalidate the voracity of their claims when there is additional clear 
>> evidence and testimony from other independent sources. 
>> 
>>> It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to prove 
>>> their good standing and change the general perception.
>> 
>> Which I have. I know my opinions are not popular in recent history, but I 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and
read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:12 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 19, 2022, at 06:25 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> The discussion here is not about the board.
>
>
> It is as far as I am concerned.
>
>

>
>
Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.
>
>
> The board has committed both.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has committed only unethical/immoral and
> not illegal acts.
>
> Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our
> role as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such
> organization using bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while
> fighting it on the other hand,
>
>
> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has no open litigation against AFRINIC,
> so I’m not sure what you mean here.
>
> How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them
> ipv4 /24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they
> can use it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This
> pool of ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
> - join the organization
> - sign NDA
> - sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust”
> - sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC
>
>
> I have no idea. I have no relationship with NRS.
>
> Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still
> working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to
> put a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.
>
>
> There are still open questions around the ethics of how Microsoft managed
> to “comply” with ARIN policies in justifying the need for the IPv4
> addresses they acquired from Nortel.
>
> The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why
> would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If
> you say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I
> would say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just
> like how we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero
> somewhere called Superman.
>
>
> Again, you should ask the NRS directly. As I said, I have no affiliation
> with NRS.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 04:51, Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to
>> their allegations.
>>
>>
>> As I have previously stated… I have no affiliation with NRS and find
>> their conduct to be both immoral and unethical.
>>
>> Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the board has repeatedly
>> acted against the bylaws, the RSA, the CPM, and the companies act.
>>
>> Simply because one (of many) accusers has acted unethically does not
>> invalidate the voracity of their claims when there is additional clear
>> evidence and testimony from other independent sources.
>>
>> It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to
>> prove their good standing and change the general perception.
>>
>>
>> Which I have. I know my opinions are not popular in recent history, but I
>> am continuing to strive for an open, transparent, and accountable AFRINIC
>> administered according to its governing documents and the law in the
>> interests of its community and its members.
>>
>> You can choose to believe that or not. I have a long history of activism
>> in the RIR system. When I started struggling for provider independent IPv6
>> assignments and allocations, that was not a popular view, either. Now it is
>> policy in all 5 RIRs.
>>
>> Anyways I wish you well.
>>
>>
>> Likewise. I hope you will keep an open mind and judge AFRINIC’s conduct
>> on its merits rather than on your opinion of one (or even a few) of its
>> detractors. There are real problems here that need to be solved. The sooner
>> the community and the members can come to agreement around that instead of
>> using the noise around the conduct of some of the entities pointing these
>> things out, the better for everyone.
>>
>> Solve the real central problems and most of the noise will fall away very
>> quickly.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 11:06 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>>
>>> You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here:
>>> a company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this
>>> company be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption
>>> again?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Noah]

On Sat, 18 Jun 2022, 20:44 John Curran,  wrote:

>
> On 16 Jun 2022, at 11:43 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
> On Jun 15, 2022, at 13:07 , John Curran  wrote:
>
> Since you’re opining on such matters, do you believe a "plain text
> reading" of the applicable documents allows AFRINIC to restrict use to the
> same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued?
>
>
> Unless notification was provided pursuant to RSA clause 4(iv)(3), yes.
>
>
> Owen -
>
> If you are referring to clause 4(c)(iv)(3), then I am rather surprised,
> since that clause refers not to simply a “notification" to AFRINIC, but
> rather an *"update _any_ data submitted to AFRINIC” *(emphasis added)*…  
> *there
> is quite a substantial difference.
>
> My understanding is that in the case of Cloud Innovation, this requirement
> was met by updates to WHOIS, as no other process for providing said updates
> is provided in the RSA, CPM, or bylaws.
>
>
> There are numerous clauses in the AFRINIC RSA that can require a party
> provide notice (and/or updating associated information) to AFRINIC despite
> having no specific process for submission – and it is my understanding that
> parties manage to provide such notice and/or updated information via actual
> mail/courier/email processes all the time.   Is it your belief that simple
> Whois updates would suffice for any of the other AFRINIC RSA notice/update
> clauses?   Why would this be the case?
>
> I only ask because I don’t quite understand how a Whois update could ever
> considered a substantive response to a requirement for a party to update
> “any data submitted to AFRINIC" [as per 4(c)(iv)(3)] – and particularly in
> circumstances where the new intended usage has substantially changed from
> the original request for resources.  Does your understanding of the
> situation include how or why such a Whois update could possible satisfy the
> irrevocable obligation to keep updated the information supplied to AFRINIC
> during RSA application?
>
> Thanks,
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>


Owen,

Did you miss the above message?

FYI now can you respond to the questions asked by Mr.John?

Cheers,
Noah
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 19, 2022, at 06:25 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> The discussion here is not about the board.

It is as far as I am concerned.

> Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.

The board has committed both.

To the best of my knowledge, NRS has committed only unethical/immoral and not 
illegal acts.

> Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our role 
> as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such organization using 
> bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while fighting it on the 
> other hand,

To the best of my knowledge, NRS has no open litigation against AFRINIC, so I’m 
not sure what you mean here.

> How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them ipv4 
> /24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they can use 
> it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This pool of 
> ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
> - join the organization
> - sign NDA
> - sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust” 
> - sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC

I have no idea. I have no relationship with NRS.

> Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still 
> working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to put 
> a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.

There are still open questions around the ethics of how Microsoft managed to 
“comply” with ARIN policies in justifying the need for the IPv4 addresses they 
acquired from Nortel.

> The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why 
> would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If you 
> say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I would 
> say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just like how 
> we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero somewhere 
> called Superman.

Again, you should ask the NRS directly. As I said, I have no affiliation with 
NRS.

Owen

> 
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 04:51, Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to their 
>> allegations.
> 
> As I have previously stated… I have no affiliation with NRS and find their 
> conduct to be both immoral and unethical. 
> 
> Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the board has repeatedly 
> acted against the bylaws, the RSA, the CPM, and the companies act.
> 
> Simply because one (of many) accusers has acted unethically does not 
> invalidate the voracity of their claims when there is additional clear 
> evidence and testimony from other independent sources. 
> 
>> It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to prove 
>> their good standing and change the general perception.
> 
> Which I have. I know my opinions are not popular in recent history, but I am 
> continuing to strive for an open, transparent, and accountable AFRINIC 
> administered according to its governing documents and the law in the 
> interests of its community and its members. 
> 
> You can choose to believe that or not. I have a long history of activism in 
> the RIR system. When I started struggling for provider independent IPv6 
> assignments and allocations, that was not a popular view, either. Now it is 
> policy in all 5 RIRs. 
> 
>> Anyways I wish you well.
> 
> Likewise. I hope you will keep an open mind and judge AFRINIC’s conduct on 
> its merits rather than on your opinion of one (or even a few) of its 
> detractors. There are real problems here that need to be solved. The sooner 
> the community and the members can come to agreement around that instead of 
> using the noise around the conduct of some of the entities pointing these 
> things out, the better for everyone.
> 
> Solve the real central problems and most of the noise will fall away very 
> quickly. 
> 
> Owen
> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 11:06 AM Owen DeLong > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:26 , Amin Dayekh >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here: a 
>>> company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this company 
>>> be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption again? 
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>>> Are you sure? 
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>> Just because a company has committed some bad acts does not mean that every 
>> thing they say can be discounted or regarded as non-credible.
>> 
>> If such were the case, nobody would ever buy Microsoft products, for after 
>> all, that company is a convicted felon.
>> 
>> The California PUC regularly listens to PG despite their numerous felony 
>> convictions as a company.
>> 
>> 
>>> Owen, if I ask you today to take 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

The discussion here is not about the board.

Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.

Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our
role as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such
organization using bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while
fighting it on the other hand,

How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them ipv4
/24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they can
use it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This
pool of ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
- join the organization
- sign NDA
- sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust”
- sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC

Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still
working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to
put a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.

The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why
would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If
you say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I
would say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just
like how we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero
somewhere called Superman.

On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 04:51, Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> 
> Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to their
> allegations.
>
>
> As I have previously stated… I have no affiliation with NRS and find their
> conduct to be both immoral and unethical.
>
> Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the board has repeatedly
> acted against the bylaws, the RSA, the CPM, and the companies act.
>
> Simply because one (of many) accusers has acted unethically does not
> invalidate the voracity of their claims when there is additional clear
> evidence and testimony from other independent sources.
>
> It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to prove
> their good standing and change the general perception.
>
>
> Which I have. I know my opinions are not popular in recent history, but I
> am continuing to strive for an open, transparent, and accountable AFRINIC
> administered according to its governing documents and the law in the
> interests of its community and its members.
>
> You can choose to believe that or not. I have a long history of activism
> in the RIR system. When I started struggling for provider independent IPv6
> assignments and allocations, that was not a popular view, either. Now it is
> policy in all 5 RIRs.
>
> Anyways I wish you well.
>
>
> Likewise. I hope you will keep an open mind and judge AFRINIC’s conduct on
> its merits rather than on your opinion of one (or even a few) of its
> detractors. There are real problems here that need to be solved. The sooner
> the community and the members can come to agreement around that instead of
> using the noise around the conduct of some of the entities pointing these
> things out, the better for everyone.
>
> Solve the real central problems and most of the noise will fall away very
> quickly.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 11:06 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here:
>> a company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this
>> company be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption
>> again?
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Just because a company has committed some bad acts does not mean that
>> every thing they say can be discounted or regarded as non-credible.
>>
>> If such were the case, nobody would ever buy Microsoft products, for
>> after all, that company is a convicted felon.
>>
>> The California PUC regularly listens to PG despite their numerous
>> felony convictions as a company.
>>
>>
>> Owen, if I ask you today to take $100 to vote for me in the upcoming
>> election in Camaros to be MP, and after a few days you see me in the news
>> lecturing about corruption and pointing fingers at people whom i am
>> labeling as corrupted, that is ok by you and you will accept my word?
>>
>>
>> It is certainly OK by me.
>>
>> Whether or not I will accept your word will depend on a great many
>> factors not in evidence in the current discussion, so I cannot give a
>> certain answer to that last question, which is pretty much what I said in
>> the previous response below.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 8:19 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>>
>>> Good Morning Owen,
>>>
>>> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short
>>> answer and straight forward:
>>>
>>> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 18, 2022, at 04:51, Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to their 
> allegations.

As I have previously stated… I have no affiliation with NRS and find their 
conduct to be both immoral and unethical. 

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the board has repeatedly acted 
against the bylaws, the RSA, the CPM, and the companies act.

Simply because one (of many) accusers has acted unethically does not invalidate 
the voracity of their claims when there is additional clear evidence and 
testimony from other independent sources. 

> It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to prove 
> their good standing and change the general perception.

Which I have. I know my opinions are not popular in recent history, but I am 
continuing to strive for an open, transparent, and accountable AFRINIC 
administered according to its governing documents and the law in the interests 
of its community and its members. 

You can choose to believe that or not. I have a long history of activism in the 
RIR system. When I started struggling for provider independent IPv6 assignments 
and allocations, that was not a popular view, either. Now it is policy in all 5 
RIRs. 

> Anyways I wish you well.

Likewise. I hope you will keep an open mind and judge AFRINIC’s conduct on its 
merits rather than on your opinion of one (or even a few) of its detractors. 
There are real problems here that need to be solved. The sooner the community 
and the members can come to agreement around that instead of using the noise 
around the conduct of some of the entities pointing these things out, the 
better for everyone.

Solve the real central problems and most of the noise will fall away very 
quickly. 

Owen

>  
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 11:06 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here: a 
>>> company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this company 
>>> be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption again? 
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>>> Are you sure? 
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>> Just because a company has committed some bad acts does not mean that every 
>> thing they say can be discounted or regarded as non-credible.
>> 
>> If such were the case, nobody would ever buy Microsoft products, for after 
>> all, that company is a convicted felon.
>> 
>> The California PUC regularly listens to PG despite their numerous felony 
>> convictions as a company.
>> 
>> 
>>> Owen, if I ask you today to take $100 to vote for me in the upcoming 
>>> election in Camaros to be MP, and after a few days you see me in the news 
>>> lecturing about corruption and pointing fingers at people whom i am 
>>> labeling as corrupted, that is ok by you and you will accept my word?  
>> 
>> It is certainly OK by me.
>> 
>> Whether or not I will accept your word will depend on a great many factors 
>> not in evidence in the current discussion, so I cannot give a certain answer 
>> to that last question, which is pretty much what I said in the previous 
>> response below.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>>> 
 On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 8:19 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
 
 
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>> 
>> Good Morning Owen,
>> 
>> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short 
>> answer and straight forward:
>> 
>> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in 
>> order to get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the 
>> elections to her favor in Camaros, - will that organization be 
>> trustworthy ?
> 
> With the limited information in your question, it’s impossible to form a 
> complete opinion, but probably not.
> 
> - Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption 
> while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above 
> if it is true)?
 
 Yes.
 
> - will you trust any word from that organization?
 
 Unknown, insufficient data provided.
 
> - will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?
 
 I rarely have faith or rely on upright intentions of any organization.
 
> I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your 
> opinion pls.  
 
 My opinion is mostly unformed as insufficient data is given in your 
 question.
 
 Owen
 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>>> 
>>> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource 
>>> holder are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong! 
>> 
>> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[John Curran]

On 16 Jun 2022, at 11:43 PM, Owen DeLong 
mailto:o...@delong.com>> wrote:

On Jun 15, 2022, at 13:07 , John Curran 
mailto:jcur...@arin.net>> wrote:

Since you’re opining on such matters, do you believe a "plain text reading" of 
the applicable documents allows AFRINIC to restrict use to the same purpose for 
which they were originally requested and issued?

Unless notification was provided pursuant to RSA clause 4(iv)(3), yes.

Owen -

If you are referring to clause 4(c)(iv)(3), then I am rather surprised, since 
that clause refers not to simply a “notification" to AFRINIC, but rather an 
"update _any_ data submitted to AFRINIC” (emphasis added)…  there is quite a 
substantial difference.

My understanding is that in the case of Cloud Innovation, this requirement was 
met by updates to WHOIS, as no other process for providing said updates is 
provided in the RSA, CPM, or bylaws.

There are numerous clauses in the AFRINIC RSA that can require a party provide 
notice (and/or updating associated information) to AFRINIC despite having no 
specific process for submission – and it is my understanding that parties 
manage to provide such notice and/or updated information via actual 
mail/courier/email processes all the time.   Is it your belief that simple 
Whois updates would suffice for any of the other AFRINIC RSA notice/update 
clauses?   Why would this be the case?

I only ask because I don’t quite understand how a Whois update could ever 
considered a substantive response to a requirement for a party to update “any 
data submitted to AFRINIC" [as per 4(c)(iv)(3)] – and particularly in 
circumstances where the new intended usage has substantially changed from the 
original request for resources.  Does your understanding of the situation 
include how or why such a Whois update could possible satisfy the irrevocable 
obligation to keep updated the information supplied to AFRINIC during RSA 
application?

Thanks,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers










___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to their
allegations.

It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to prove
their good standing and change the general perception.

Anyways I wish you well.


On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 11:06 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here: a
> company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this company
> be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption again?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Are you sure?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Just because a company has committed some bad acts does not mean that
> every thing they say can be discounted or regarded as non-credible.
>
> If such were the case, nobody would ever buy Microsoft products, for after
> all, that company is a convicted felon.
>
> The California PUC regularly listens to PG despite their numerous felony
> convictions as a company.
>
>
> Owen, if I ask you today to take $100 to vote for me in the upcoming
> election in Camaros to be MP, and after a few days you see me in the news
> lecturing about corruption and pointing fingers at people whom i am
> labeling as corrupted, that is ok by you and you will accept my word?
>
>
> It is certainly OK by me.
>
> Whether or not I will accept your word will depend on a great many factors
> not in evidence in the current discussion, so I cannot give a certain
> answer to that last question, which is pretty much what I said in the
> previous response below.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 8:19 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning Owen,
>>
>> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short
>> answer and straight forward:
>>
>> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in
>> order to get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the
>> elections to her favor in Camaros, - will that organization be trustworthy ?
>>
>>
>> With the limited information in your question, it’s impossible to form a
>> complete opinion, but probably not.
>>
>> - Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption
>> while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above if
>> it is true)?
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> - will you trust any word from that organization?
>>
>>
>> Unknown, insufficient data provided.
>>
>> - will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?
>>
>>
>> I rarely have faith or rely on upright intentions of any organization.
>>
>> I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your
>> opinion pls.
>>
>>
>> My opinion is mostly unformed as insufficient data is given in your
>> question.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>>>
>>> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource
>>> holder are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong!
>>>
>>>
>>> I look forward to your attempt to do so.
>>>
>>> I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while
>>> ignoring the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where
>>> when I limit it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire
>>> message rather than make a cogent response.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>>


 On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:

 Owen,
 for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red
 from your ext

 *quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
 underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) *you used
 the term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the
 term is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application
 with the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when
 you apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us
 here of the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this
 step was taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the
 IPV4, and to regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4,
 closing the door on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such
 cases peculiar to need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the
 company might be dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are
 assigned "not sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.


 Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from
 AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that
 is one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here: a 
> company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this company be 
> in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption again? 

Yes.

> Are you sure? 

Yes.

Just because a company has committed some bad acts does not mean that every 
thing they say can be discounted or regarded as non-credible.

If such were the case, nobody would ever buy Microsoft products, for after all, 
that company is a convicted felon.

The California PUC regularly listens to PG despite their numerous felony 
convictions as a company.


> Owen, if I ask you today to take $100 to vote for me in the upcoming election 
> in Camaros to be MP, and after a few days you see me in the news lecturing 
> about corruption and pointing fingers at people whom i am labeling as 
> corrupted, that is ok by you and you will accept my word?  

It is certainly OK by me.

Whether or not I will accept your word will depend on a great many factors not 
in evidence in the current discussion, so I cannot give a certain answer to 
that last question, which is pretty much what I said in the previous response 
below.

Owen

> 
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 8:19 AM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> Good Morning Owen,
>> 
>> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short 
>> answer and straight forward:
>> 
>> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in order 
>> to get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the elections to 
>> her favor in Camaros, - will that organization be trustworthy ?
> 
> With the limited information in your question, it’s impossible to form a 
> complete opinion, but probably not.
> 
>> - Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption 
>> while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above if 
>> it is true)?
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> - will you trust any word from that organization?
> 
> Unknown, insufficient data provided.
> 
>> - will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?
> 
> I rarely have faith or rely on upright intentions of any organization.
> 
>> I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your opinion 
>> pls.  
> 
> My opinion is mostly unformed as insufficient data is given in your question.
> 
> Owen
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>>> 
>>> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource holder 
>>> are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong! 
>> 
>> I look forward to your attempt to do so.
>> 
>> I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while 
>> ignoring the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where 
>> when I limit it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire 
>> message rather than make a cogent response.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh >>> > wrote:
 
 Owen,
 for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from 
 your ext
 
 quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their 
 underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) you used the 
 term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term 
 is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application 
 with the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when 
 you apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us 
 here of the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this 
 step was taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the 
 IPV4, and to regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, 
 closing the door on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such 
 cases peculiar to need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the 
 company might be dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are 
 assigned "not sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
>>> 
>>> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from 
>>> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that 
>>> is one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a 
>>> transfer policy.
>>> 
>>> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or your 
>>> failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here: a
company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this company
be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption again?

Are you sure?

Owen, if I ask you today to take $100 to vote for me in the upcoming
election in Camaros to be MP, and after a few days you see me in the news
lecturing about corruption and pointing fingers at people whom i am
labeling as corrupted, that is ok by you and you will accept my word?

On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 8:19 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> Good Morning Owen,
>
> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short
> answer and straight forward:
>
> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in order
> to get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the elections to
> her favor in Camaros, - will that organization be trustworthy ?
>
>
> With the limited information in your question, it’s impossible to form a
> complete opinion, but probably not.
>
> - Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption
> while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above if
> it is true)?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> - will you trust any word from that organization?
>
>
> Unknown, insufficient data provided.
>
> - will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?
>
>
> I rarely have faith or rely on upright intentions of any organization.
>
> I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your
> opinion pls.
>
>
> My opinion is mostly unformed as insufficient data is given in your
> question.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>>
>> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource
>> holder are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong!
>>
>>
>> I look forward to your attempt to do so.
>>
>> I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while
>> ignoring the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where
>> when I limit it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire
>> message rather than make a cogent response.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>>
>>> Owen,
>>> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from
>>> your ext
>>>
>>> *quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
>>> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) *you used
>>> the term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the
>>> term is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application
>>> with the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when
>>> you apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us
>>> here of the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this
>>> step was taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the
>>> IPV4, and to regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4,
>>> closing the door on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such
>>> cases peculiar to need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the
>>> company might be dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are
>>> assigned "not sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
>>>
>>>
>>> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from
>>> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that
>>> is one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a
>>> transfer policy.
>>>
>>> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or
>>> your failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister
>>> possible motives to every statement I make.
>>>
>>> The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the
>>> RIR is supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by
>>> the community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the
>>> membership of the RIR.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically
>>> supposed to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result
>>> the RIRs that is driving some of your other misstatements.
>>>
>>> For clarity:
>>>
>>> ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry
>>> for IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does
>>> so according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert
>>> through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which
>>> is synonymous with the NRO NC.
>>>
>>> Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to
>>> its 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> Good Morning Owen,
> 
> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short 
> answer and straight forward:
> 
> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in order to 
> get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the elections to her 
> favor in Camaros, - will that organization be trustworthy ?

With the limited information in your question, it’s impossible to form a 
complete opinion, but probably not.

> - Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption 
> while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above if it 
> is true)?

Yes.

> - will you trust any word from that organization?

Unknown, insufficient data provided.

> - will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?

I rarely have faith or rely on upright intentions of any organization.

> I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your opinion 
> pls.  

My opinion is mostly unformed as insufficient data is given in your question.

Owen

> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>> 
>> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource holder 
>> are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong! 
> 
> I look forward to your attempt to do so.
> 
> I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while 
> ignoring the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where 
> when I limit it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire 
> message rather than make a cogent response.
> 
> Owen
> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Owen,
>>> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from 
>>> your ext
>>> 
>>> quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their 
>>> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) you used the 
>>> term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term 
>>> is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application with 
>>> the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when you 
>>> apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us here of 
>>> the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this step was 
>>> taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the IPV4, and to 
>>> regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, closing the door 
>>> on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such cases peculiar to 
>>> need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the company might be 
>>> dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are assigned "not 
>>> sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
>> 
>> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from 
>> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that is 
>> one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a transfer 
>> policy.
>> 
>> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or your 
>> failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister possible 
>> motives to every statement I make.
>> 
>> The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the RIR 
>> is supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by the 
>> community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the membership 
>> of the RIR.
>> 
>> Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically 
>> supposed to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result 
>> the RIRs that is driving some of your other misstatements.
>> 
>> For clarity:
>> 
>> ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry for 
>> IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does so 
>> according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert 
>> through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which 
>> is synonymous with the NRO NC.
>> 
>> Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to its 
>> justified need and pursuant to those policies mentioned above.
>> 
>> Each RIR distributes those resources to its subscribers (members or not, 
>> depending on the RIR’s specific policies) according to the policies set in 
>> the RIR by its community and according to the bylaws of the RIR set by its 
>> members.
>> 
>> Each RIR is expected to operate within the policies created by its 
>> membership and according to its bylaws. When an RIR fails to do so, it 
>> becomes far more 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Good Morning Owen,

There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short
answer and straight forward:

In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in order
to get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the elections to
her favor in Camaros, - will that organization be trustworthy ?
- Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption
while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above if
it is true)?
- will you trust any word from that organization?
- will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?

I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your opinion
pls.


On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>
> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource holder
> are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong!
>
>
> I look forward to your attempt to do so.
>
> I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while
> ignoring the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where
> when I limit it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire
> message rather than make a cogent response.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> Owen,
>> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from
>> your ext
>>
>> *quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
>> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) *you used the
>> term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term
>> is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application with
>> the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when you
>> apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us here of
>> the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this step was
>> taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the IPV4, and to
>> regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, closing the door
>> on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such cases peculiar to
>> need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the company might be
>> dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are assigned "not
>> sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
>>
>>
>> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from
>> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that
>> is one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a
>> transfer policy.
>>
>> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or
>> your failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister
>> possible motives to every statement I make.
>>
>> The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the
>> RIR is supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by
>> the community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the
>> membership of the RIR.
>>
>> Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically
>> supposed to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result
>> the RIRs that is driving some of your other misstatements.
>>
>> For clarity:
>>
>> ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry
>> for IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does
>> so according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert
>> through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which
>> is synonymous with the NRO NC.
>>
>> Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to
>> its justified need and pursuant to those policies mentioned above.
>>
>> Each RIR distributes those resources to its subscribers (members or not,
>> depending on the RIR’s specific policies) according to the policies set in
>> the RIR by its community and according to the bylaws of the RIR set by its
>> members.
>>
>> Each RIR is expected to operate within the policies created by its
>> membership and according to its bylaws. When an RIR fails to do so, it
>> becomes far more dangerous than is expected.
>>
>> Some RIR subscribers are LIRs (Local Internet Registries). LIRs provide
>> address space to their customers (usually for a fee) whether in
>> relationship with connectivity services or as a separate product.
>>
>> Some RIR subscribers are end users and simply use the address space they
>> receive from the RIR directly.
>>
>> Every RIR except AFRINIC has an inter-RIR transfer policy at this point.
>> Yes, the recipient needs to show need in the case of an inter-RIR transfer.
>>
>> There are many different reasons organizations want to be able to engage
>> in inter-RIR 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 17, 2022, at 14:19 , Sylvain Baya  wrote:
> 
> Dear AfriNIC's Community,
> 
> Hope this email finds you in good health!
> 
> warning: long email; where i mostly pasted
>  sections 4 & 6 of AfriNIC's RSA. Because it appears
>  that reading full RSA is mandatory for AfriNIC's 
>  Resource Members (RM)! keep reading, please :-D 
> 
> 
> Please see my comments below, inline...
> 
> Le vendredi 17 juin 2022, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
> mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> a 
> écrit :
> 
> 
>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 13:07 , John Curran > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 15 Jun 2022, at 1:30 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
>>> mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> ...
>>> AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the geographical 
>>> restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation from you.
>>> 
>>> I expect that with regard to that particular issue, AFRINIC will lose, as a 
>>> plain text reading of the governing documents does not support such aa 
>>> restriction except in the case of addresses issued after the activation of 
>>> the soft landing policy.
>> 
>> 
>> Owen - 
>> 
>> Since you’re opining on such matters, do you believe a "plain text reading" 
>> of the applicable documents allows AFRINIC to restrict use to the same 
>> purpose for which they were originally requested and issued?
> 
> Unless notification was provided pursuant to RSA clause 4(iv)(3), yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Owen,
> Thanks for your email, brother.
> 
> You probably meant 4(c)(iv)(3)...
> 
> ...i recall that the question is about keeping 
> *the purpose*; through the CoS (Conditions 
> of Service) [1,2]:
> 
> 
> [...]
> *4. Conditions of service*
> 
> (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies for 
> a change or a variation of the 
> type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation of 
> such a “change request” will be effected in 
> terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement.
> (b) Cooperation:
> (i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times bound 
> to provide to AFRINIC such 
> information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by the 
> latter in the provision 
> of the service.
> (ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is 
> investigating (reviewing) the 
> applicant’s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it.
> (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above may:
> (1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by AFRINIC;
> (2) be taken into account by AFRINIC in its evaluation for further and future 
> assignment or 
> allocation of number resources;
> (3) lead to the closure of an LIR and termination of the agreement by AFRINIC.
> (c) Applicant’s use of the service
> The Applicant hereby irrevocably:
> (i) Commits itself to using the services solely for the purpose for which it 
> was requested.
> (ii) Commits itself to using the services in full and unreserved compliance 
> with AFRINIC’s policies and 
> mandate:
> (1) without knowingly infringing the rights and/or interests of other users 
> of such services,
> (2) within the limits of applicable laws and/or regulations of the 
> jurisdiction in which it operates.
> (iii) Further acknowledges that AFRINIC may at its own discretion and for 
> good cause and common 
> Interest of the stability of the Internet, investigate or cause to be 
> investigated, the Applicant’s use of 
> the services by the appropriate and competent authority(ies).
> (iv) Hereby binds itself to:
> (1) notify AFRINIC whenever its circumstances so change that it is no longer 
> in need of the 
> Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a 
> Registration Service 
> Agreement;
> (2) surrender to AFRINIC within 15 days of the service of the notice at 
> (iv)(1) above the Internet 
> number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration 
> Service Agreement;
> (3) update any data submitted to AFRINIC in the context of:
> a. an application for a Registration Service Agreement or
> b. the renewal of any Registration Service Agreement
> whenever such data have been the subject of amendment, change or have become 
> outdated.
> (d) AFRINIC will comply with all applicable data protection and privacy laws 
> of the Republic of Mauritius in its 
> handling of data and information submitted to it by the Applicant in 
> furtherance of an application for services 
> and use thereof.
> [...]
> 
> __
> [1]: https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa 
> 
> [2]: https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/services/afrinic-rsa-en-201801.pdf 
> 
> 
> 
> BtW, first, the purpose isn't still the same. Right?
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> My understanding is that in the case of Cloud Innovation, this requirement 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
> 
> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource holder 
> are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong! 

I look forward to your attempt to do so.

I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while ignoring 
the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where when I limit 
it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire message rather than 
make a cogent response.

Owen

> 
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> Owen,
>> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from 
>> your ext
>> 
>> quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their 
>> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) you used the term 
>> sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term is, this 
>> should be governed by the rir, there should be an application with the 
>> knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when you apply 
>> to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us here of the 
>> difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this step was taken 
>> by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the IPV4, and to 
>> regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, closing the door on 
>> black and grey market. let me remind us also that such cases peculiar to 
>> need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the company might be 
>> dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are assigned "not 
>> sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
> 
> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from 
> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that is 
> one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a transfer 
> policy.
> 
> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or your 
> failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister possible 
> motives to every statement I make.
> 
> The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the RIR is 
> supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by the 
> community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the membership 
> of the RIR.
> 
> Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically 
> supposed to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result 
> the RIRs that is driving some of your other misstatements.
> 
> For clarity:
> 
> ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry for 
> IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does so 
> according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert 
> through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which 
> is synonymous with the NRO NC.
> 
> Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to its 
> justified need and pursuant to those policies mentioned above.
> 
> Each RIR distributes those resources to its subscribers (members or not, 
> depending on the RIR’s specific policies) according to the policies set in 
> the RIR by its community and according to the bylaws of the RIR set by its 
> members.
> 
> Each RIR is expected to operate within the policies created by its membership 
> and according to its bylaws. When an RIR fails to do so, it becomes far more 
> dangerous than is expected.
> 
> Some RIR subscribers are LIRs (Local Internet Registries). LIRs provide 
> address space to their customers (usually for a fee) whether in relationship 
> with connectivity services or as a separate product.
> 
> Some RIR subscribers are end users and simply use the address space they 
> receive from the RIR directly.
> 
> Every RIR except AFRINIC has an inter-RIR transfer policy at this point. Yes, 
> the recipient needs to show need in the case of an inter-RIR transfer.
> 
> There are many different reasons organizations want to be able to engage in 
> inter-RIR transfers and I enumerated several of them. You chose to focus on a 
> single one because that is the one you hope to be able to twist into 
> something sinister.
> 
>> quote: (  RIPE-NCC should be going after a number of companies who are 
>> operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued space. Note that this is 
>> not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be an issue. This allegation 
>> that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa is a fiction that has only 
>> ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC and has never received 
>> serious attention in any other RIR.) Answer: AfriNIC got the smallest 
>> portion of ipv4 and it is called AFRICAN etc... enforcing a policy "which 
>> does 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.

I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource holder
are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong!

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> Owen,
> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from
> your ext
>
> *quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) *you used the
> term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term
> is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application with
> the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when you
> apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us here of
> the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this step was
> taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the IPV4, and to
> regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, closing the door
> on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such cases peculiar to
> need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the company might be
> dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are assigned "not
> sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
>
>
> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from
> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that
> is one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a
> transfer policy.
>
> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or
> your failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister
> possible motives to every statement I make.
>
> The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the RIR
> is supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by the
> community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the
> membership of the RIR.
>
> Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically
> supposed to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result
> the RIRs that is driving some of your other misstatements.
>
> For clarity:
>
> ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry
> for IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does
> so according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert
> through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which
> is synonymous with the NRO NC.
>
> Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to
> its justified need and pursuant to those policies mentioned above.
>
> Each RIR distributes those resources to its subscribers (members or not,
> depending on the RIR’s specific policies) according to the policies set in
> the RIR by its community and according to the bylaws of the RIR set by its
> members.
>
> Each RIR is expected to operate within the policies created by its
> membership and according to its bylaws. When an RIR fails to do so, it
> becomes far more dangerous than is expected.
>
> Some RIR subscribers are LIRs (Local Internet Registries). LIRs provide
> address space to their customers (usually for a fee) whether in
> relationship with connectivity services or as a separate product.
>
> Some RIR subscribers are end users and simply use the address space they
> receive from the RIR directly.
>
> Every RIR except AFRINIC has an inter-RIR transfer policy at this point.
> Yes, the recipient needs to show need in the case of an inter-RIR transfer.
>
> There are many different reasons organizations want to be able to engage
> in inter-RIR transfers and I enumerated several of them. You chose to focus
> on a single one because that is the one you hope to be able to twist into
> something sinister.
>
> quote: ( * RIPE-NCC should be going after a number of companies who
> are operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued space. Note that
> this is not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be an issue. This
> allegation that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa is a fiction
> that has only ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC and has never
> received serious attention in any other RIR.) *Answer: AfriNIC got the
> smallest portion of ipv4 and it is called AFRICAN etc... enforcing a policy
> "which does not exist as of now" to transfer inter RIR or sell will be
> suicide to the continent's digital future as the world is at the scarcity
> of IPV4, my view. Rather, Auditing the existing delegations and retrieval
> is what is supposed to happen. in the meantime, the companies you are
> referring to are companies of legitimate presence, not ip brokers and have
> ASNs. What is applicable to RIPE or ARIN is not necessarily applicable to
> AfriNIC, they can enforce any policy and afrinic is at liberty to do such,
> with the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 15, 2022, at 13:07 , John Curran  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 15 Jun 2022, at 1:30 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
>> mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> wrote:
>> ...
>> AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the geographical 
>> restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation from you.
>> 
>> I expect that with regard to that particular issue, AFRINIC will lose, as a 
>> plain text reading of the governing documents does not support such aa 
>> restriction except in the case of addresses issued after the activation of 
>> the soft landing policy.
> 
> 
> Owen - 
> 
> Since you’re opining on such matters, do you believe a "plain text reading" 
> of the applicable documents allows AFRINIC to restrict use to the same 
> purpose for which they were originally requested and issued?

Unless notification was provided pursuant to RSA clause 4(iv)(3), yes.

My understanding is that in the case of Cloud Innovation, this requirement was 
met by updates to WHOIS, as no other process for providing said updates is 
provided in the RSA, CPM, or bylaws.

Owen

___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> Owen,
> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from your 
> ext
> 
> quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their 
> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) you used the term 
> sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term is, this 
> should be governed by the rir, there should be an application with the 
> knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when you apply 
> to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us here of the 
> difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this step was taken 
> by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the IPV4, and to 
> regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, closing the door on 
> black and grey market. let me remind us also that such cases peculiar to need 
> and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the company might be dissolved. 
> Also let me remind us all the ip resources are assigned "not sold" to lir 
> based on NEED, justified need.

Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from AFRINIC… 
I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that is one of the 
reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a transfer policy.

This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or your 
failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister possible motives 
to every statement I make.

The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the RIR is 
supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by the 
community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the membership of 
the RIR.

Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically supposed 
to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result the RIRs that 
is driving some of your other misstatements.

For clarity:

ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry for 
IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does so 
according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert 
through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which is 
synonymous with the NRO NC.

Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to its 
justified need and pursuant to those policies mentioned above.

Each RIR distributes those resources to its subscribers (members or not, 
depending on the RIR’s specific policies) according to the policies set in the 
RIR by its community and according to the bylaws of the RIR set by its members.

Each RIR is expected to operate within the policies created by its membership 
and according to its bylaws. When an RIR fails to do so, it becomes far more 
dangerous than is expected.

Some RIR subscribers are LIRs (Local Internet Registries). LIRs provide address 
space to their customers (usually for a fee) whether in relationship with 
connectivity services or as a separate product.

Some RIR subscribers are end users and simply use the address space they 
receive from the RIR directly.

Every RIR except AFRINIC has an inter-RIR transfer policy at this point. Yes, 
the recipient needs to show need in the case of an inter-RIR transfer.

There are many different reasons organizations want to be able to engage in 
inter-RIR transfers and I enumerated several of them. You chose to focus on a 
single one because that is the one you hope to be able to twist into something 
sinister.

> quote: (  RIPE-NCC should be going after a number of companies who are 
> operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued space. Note that this is 
> not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be an issue. This allegation 
> that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa is a fiction that has only 
> ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC and has never received 
> serious attention in any other RIR.) Answer: AfriNIC got the smallest portion 
> of ipv4 and it is called AFRICAN etc... enforcing a policy "which does not 
> exist as of now" to transfer inter RIR or sell will be suicide to the 
> continent's digital future as the world is at the scarcity of IPV4, my view. 
> Rather, Auditing the existing delegations and retrieval is what is supposed 
> to happen. in the meantime, the companies you are referring to are companies 
> of legitimate presence, not ip brokers and have ASNs. What is applicable to 
> RIPE or ARIN is not necessarily applicable to AfriNIC, they can enforce any 
> policy and afrinic is at liberty to do such, with the view of the little ip 
> resources available and the big future of Africa.

If you are opposed to an inter-RIR transfer policy, then so be it. That has 
little or nothing to do with whether or not existing addresses registered to an 
organization by AFRINIC are allowed to be used outside of AFRICA or not.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message 
Amin Dayekh  wrote:

>AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh
>your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the
>proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which
>are available online?

With respect to the various IP blocks that were reclaimed by AFRINIC due
to the now evident fact that they were outright stolen, geography is
rather entirely irrelevant to those blocks, I think.

With respect to the various IP blocks that AFRINIC has attempted to reclaim
from Cloud Innovation, I confess that I personally am still very much in
the dark about the exact reasons for that action on AFRINIC's part.  These
matters have been under legal adjudication for some time now and as a result,
as far as I personally am aware, AFRINIC has been rather entirely tight-lipped
about the exact cause of its efforts to reclaim these blocks.  If anyone else
has some accurate and definitive information about this, I would be very happy
to receive that.

That all having been said, I think that in the absence of a specific statement
of the matter from AFRINIC officials it would be a mistake to jump to the
conclusion that AFRINIC has attempted to reclaim blocks from Cloud Innovation
due to some considerations relating specifically to geography.

Rather, it is my (perhaps imperfect) understanding that AFRINIC has attempted
to reclaim blocks from Cloud Innovation due to the latter's failure to
properly inform AFRINIC, as required under the terms of the RSA contract,
of a change in the circumstances of usage of those blocks, relative to the
justification(s) that were used to obtain those blocks originally.  If that
is correct, then the change(s) in question may or may not have related to
the geographical location where the blocks were originally planned to be
deployed and/or to the geographical location where they actually were,
ultimately, deployed.

I can easly envision that perhaps some other change in the nature of the
usage, relative to the original justification, may also have taken place
in this instance, and that this additional change may not have been duly
reported to AFRINIC as required under the RSA contract.  If so, that
would be a reasonable basis for AFRINIC to terminate the contract, in my
opinion.

For example, if one wished, initially, to use a an IPv4 block for running
proxies, e.g.  to enable people to (illegally?) end run around the Great
Firewall of China, then it is easy to understand why a great many individual
IP addreses would be needed.  On the other hand, if, at some time after the
allocation was made, the registrant changed course and decided to use the
allocated IP addresses for web hosting (where anyone can easily use a
single IP address to host literally thousands of web sites) then this is,
I think, a material change in the nature of the usage, and one which would
both (a) oblige the registrant to notify AFRINC of the change in usage and
it would be a change in usage which would also (b) effectively invalidate
the original IP space justification.

This all may have happened.  I really just do not know.  If it did happen,
then none of this would involve or implicate geography in any way, thus
rendering all debates about using IPs inside of Africa or outside of
Africa rather entirely irrelevant, if not to say downright silly.

It is certainly a hot topic of conversation as to whether or not registrants
which be either permitted or encouraged to use their AFRINIC-supplied IP
addresses outside of the region and/or to transfer them outside the region.
I just don't want anyone to become confused or to improperly and incorrectly
conflate the topic of geographical restrictions with the topic of what
prompted AFRINIC to try to reclaim the blocks allocated to Cloud Innovation.
It is NOT clear, to me at least, that there is any relationship at all
between these two topics.


Regards,
rfg

___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[John Curran]

On 15 Jun 2022, at 1:30 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> wrote:
...
AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the geographical 
restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation from you.

I expect that with regard to that particular issue, AFRINIC will lose, as a 
plain text reading of the governing documents does not support such aa 
restriction except in the case of addresses issued after the activation of the 
soft landing policy.


Owen -

Since you’re opining on such matters, do you believe a "plain text reading" of 
the applicable documents allows AFRINIC to restrict use to the same purpose for 
which they were originally requested and issued?

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers



___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Owen,
for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from
your ext

*quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) *you used the
term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the term
is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application with
the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when you
apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us here of
the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this step was
taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the IPV4, and to
regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4, closing the door
on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such cases peculiar to
need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the company might be
dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are assigned "not
sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.

quote: ( * RIPE-NCC should be going after a number of companies who are
operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued space. Note that this
is not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be an issue. This
allegation that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa is a fiction
that has only ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC and has never
received serious attention in any other RIR.) *Answer: AfriNIC got the
smallest portion of ipv4 and it is called AFRICAN etc... enforcing a policy
"which does not exist as of now" to transfer inter RIR or sell will be
suicide to the continent's digital future as the world is at the scarcity
of IPV4, my view. Rather, Auditing the existing delegations and retrieval
is what is supposed to happen. in the meantime, the companies you are
referring to are companies of legitimate presence, not ip brokers and have
ASNs. What is applicable to RIPE or ARIN is not necessarily applicable to
AfriNIC, they can enforce any policy and afrinic is at liberty to do such,
with the view of the little ip resources available and the big future of
Africa.

*quote: (AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the
geographical restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation
from you.)* I did not make any statement about winning on geographical
grounds, why are you putting words in my mouth that I did not say? who is
misinforming now?

quote : (soft landing) Soft landing was very good in other rir if you
really wish to compare, refer to ARIN website and see how soft landing was
easy.

*quote : ( I have not and will not lie on behalf of any employer or client.
This statement is an ad hominem attack, is inappropriate to the list, and
is, frankly, a libelous accusation without evidence.)*  did i say you? did
i point any finger to you? why are you always whining and dtrying to get in
the center of attention as if the whole world is revolving because of you
and around you? I said : *Anyone *can convince *himself with any lie* and
convince the minions involved in this issue who have been (mislead) and
unfortunately (paid to spread lie), did you see you or me or owen or amin
in this statement?

*quote: ( I have not and will not lie on behalf of any employer or client.
This statement is an ad hominem attack, is inappropriate to the list, and
is, frankly, a libelous accusation without evidence. ) *Again: Did I say
you published any video? did I point any finger at you? did I mention you?

My email was about PTA, our legal team communicated with them on their
website in Pakistan and the Website of the Embassy in Mauritius and through
a Letter TO THE embassy here, and will send further to the
embassies/commission/high commission/consulate (if any) in all African
Region, so may I understand what involved you here? Are you from Pakistan
or the spokesperson of PTA?



On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 6:31 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 15, 2022, at 09:22 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> Owen,
>
> Don’t rush, all in good time.
>
> Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no single
> piece of evidence!
>
> AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh
> your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the
> proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which
> are available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod have lost all
> cases. What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the Judicial System.
>
>
> *Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their underutilized
>> resources in a worldwide secondary market.* Other companies wish to be
>> able to obtain addresses from that same market once the artificially
>> constrained AFRINIC free pool is exhausted. Because some companies would
>> prefer to consolidate their global resources from multiple RIRs to a single
>> contract with a single RIR. There are a variety of reasons that have
>> absolutely nothing to do with 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

pls save this answer for later, just remember what you said here and i will
prove you wrong regardless the companies you mentioned as i have no
affiliation with them i dont comment on them.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 6:33 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 15, 2022, at 09:29 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> Owen,
>
> One question which a yes or no question:
>
> Is it allowed by afrinic with the provisions of bylaws written in Good
> faith relying on the integrity of Members, is it Allowed to Sell IPV4 ?
>
>
> The bylaws are mute on this subject… It is a policy matter. Current policy
> only allows them to be sold to another AFRINIC member.
>
> However, I’m not sure how this is relevant to the discussion at hand.
>
> LARUS and Cloud Innovation have not sold any AFRINIC number resources.
>
> Instead, like all LIRs, they lease them to their clients.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:22 PM Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
>> Owen,
>>
>> Don’t rush, all in good time.
>>
>> Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no single
>> piece of evidence!
>>
>> AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh
>> your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the
>> proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which
>> are available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod have lost all
>> cases. What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the Judicial System.
>>
>> Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions
>> involved in this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to
>> spread lie)
>>
>> When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should provide
>> evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the table
>> corrupting the members to buy Votes.
>>
>> If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to your
>> good self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i want
>> and walk, reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions as
>> the 2nd party is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.
>>
>> By the way, I did not mention anyone in my email except PTA so which
>> company you are talking about?!
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:11 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear members,
>>> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who
>>> are taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.
>>>
>>> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of
>>> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan
>>> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
>>>
>>> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan
>>> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to:
>>>
>>> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
>>> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least
>>> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
>>> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty
>>> as an African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the
>>> alleged Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a
>>> fraudulent misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's
>>> IPV4 addresses ended and are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last
>>> time I checked, is not an African country.
>>>
>>>
>>> Misleading? As in the misleading claim that AFRINIC issued addresses are
>>> somehow restricted to use in Africa when nothing in the bylaws, RSA, or CPM
>>> says so?
>>>
>>> You continue to repeat this claim despite repeated clarifications and
>>> corrections on the fallacious nature of the claim. Clearly, you are the one
>>> engaged in a campaign of disinformation.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 15, 2022, at 09:29 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> Owen,
> 
> One question which a yes or no question:
> 
> Is it allowed by afrinic with the provisions of bylaws written in Good faith 
> relying on the integrity of Members, is it Allowed to Sell IPV4 ?

The bylaws are mute on this subject… It is a policy matter. Current policy only 
allows them to be sold to another AFRINIC member.

However, I’m not sure how this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

LARUS and Cloud Innovation have not sold any AFRINIC number resources.

Instead, like all LIRs, they lease them to their clients.

Owen

> 
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:22 PM Amin Dayekh  > wrote:
> Owen,
> 
> Don’t rush, all in good time. 
> 
> Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no single 
> piece of evidence! 
> 
> AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh your 
> memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the proposals 
> for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which are 
> available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod have lost all cases. 
> What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the Judicial System. 
> 
> Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions involved in 
> this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to spread lie)
> 
> When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should provide 
> evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the table 
> corrupting the members to buy Votes.
> 
> If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to your good 
> self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i want and walk, 
> reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions as the 2nd party 
> is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.
> 
> By the way, I did not mention anyone in my email except PTA so which company 
> you are talking about?!
> 
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:11 PM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> Dear members, 
>> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who are 
>> taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.
>> 
>> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of 
>> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan 
>> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
>> 
>> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan 
>> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to: 
>> 
>> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
>> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least 
>> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
>> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty as an 
>> African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the alleged 
>> Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a fraudulent 
>> misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's IPV4 
>> addresses ended and are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last time I 
>> checked, is not an African country.
> 
> Misleading? As in the misleading claim that AFRINIC issued addresses are 
> somehow restricted to use in Africa when nothing in the bylaws, RSA, or CPM 
> says so?
> 
> You continue to repeat this claim despite repeated clarifications and 
> corrections on the fallacious nature of the claim. Clearly, you are the one 
> engaged in a campaign of disinformation.
> 
> Owen
> 

___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 15, 2022, at 09:22 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> Owen,
> 
> Don’t rush, all in good time. 
> 
> Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no single 
> piece of evidence! 
> 
> AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh your 
> memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the proposals 
> for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which are 
> available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod have lost all cases. 
> What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the Judicial System. 

Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their underutilized 
resources in a worldwide secondary market. Other companies wish to be able to 
obtain addresses from that same market once the artificially constrained 
AFRINIC free pool is exhausted. Because some companies would prefer to 
consolidate their global resources from multiple RIRs to a single contract with 
a single RIR. There are a variety of reasons that have absolutely nothing to do 
with any idea of geographic restriction on usage.

If what you say is true, then RIPE-NCC should be going after a number of 
companies who are operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued space. 
Note that this is not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be an issue. 
This allegation that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa is a fiction 
that has only ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC and has never 
received serious attention in any other RIR.

AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the geographical 
restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation from you.

I expect that with regard to that particular issue, AFRINIC will lose, as a 
plain text reading of the governing documents does not support such aa 
restriction except in the case of addresses issued after the activation of the 
soft landing policy.

What is happening in Mauritius is a member attempting to defend their rights 
under the contract they signed against a board that is misconstruing the bylaws 
and acting outside of its authority.

The board has repeatedly lost, though it has achieved a few procedural 
victories. Despite its victories, the board remains subject to a series of 
injunctions preventing it from taking any of multiple illegal actions it has 
attempted, including its attempt to run a rigged election. Most of the cases 
are still undecided.

> Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions involved in 
> this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to spread lie)

I have not and will not lie on behalf of any employer or client. This statement 
is an ad hominem attack, is inappropriate to the list, and is, frankly, a 
libelous accusation without evidence.

> When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should provide 
> evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the table 
> corrupting the members to buy Votes.

I’ve made no videos, so I can only assume you are referring to someone else 
here… Perhaps yourself?

> If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to your good 
> self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i want and walk, 
> reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions as the 2nd party 
> is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.

What misquote, exactly? Please point to where my quote was in error and be 
specific.

I literally copied and pasted the text of section 6 of the bylaws.

> By the way, I did not mention anyone in my email except PTA so which company 
> you are talking about?!

I was talking about you and the misinformation contained in your statements. I 
thought that was clear from the context.

Owen

> 
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:11 PM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> Dear members, 
>> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who are 
>> taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.
>> 
>> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of 
>> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan 
>> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
>> 
>> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan 
>> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to: 
>> 
>> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
>> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least 
>> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
>> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty as an 
>> African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the alleged 
>> Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a fraudulent 
>> misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's IPV4 
>> addresses ended and are in USE 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Owen,

One question which a yes or no question:

Is it allowed by afrinic with the provisions of bylaws written in Good
faith relying on the integrity of Members, is it Allowed to Sell IPV4 ?

On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:22 PM Amin Dayekh  wrote:

> Owen,
>
> Don’t rush, all in good time.
>
> Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no single
> piece of evidence!
>
> AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh
> your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the
> proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which
> are available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod have lost all
> cases. What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the Judicial System.
>
> Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions involved
> in this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to spread lie)
>
> When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should provide
> evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the table
> corrupting the members to buy Votes.
>
> If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to your
> good self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i want
> and walk, reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions as
> the 2nd party is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.
>
> By the way, I did not mention anyone in my email except PTA so which
> company you are talking about?!
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:11 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> Dear members,
>> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who
>> are taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.
>>
>> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of
>> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan
>> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
>>
>> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan
>> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to:
>>
>> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
>> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least
>> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
>> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty as
>> an African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the alleged
>> Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a
>> fraudulent misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's
>> IPV4 addresses ended and are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last
>> time I checked, is not an African country.
>>
>>
>> Misleading? As in the misleading claim that AFRINIC issued addresses are
>> somehow restricted to use in Africa when nothing in the bylaws, RSA, or CPM
>> says so?
>>
>> You continue to repeat this claim despite repeated clarifications and
>> corrections on the fallacious nature of the claim. Clearly, you are the one
>> engaged in a campaign of disinformation.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Owen,

Don’t rush, all in good time.

Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no single
piece of evidence!

AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to refresh
your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then why the
proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the Meeting which
are available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod have lost all
cases. What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the Judicial System.

Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions involved
in this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to spread lie)

When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should provide
evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the table
corrupting the members to buy Votes.

If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to your
good self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i want
and walk, reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions as
the 2nd party is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.

By the way, I did not mention anyone in my email except PTA so which
company you are talking about?!

On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:11 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
> Dear members,
> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who
> are taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.
>
> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of
> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan
> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
>
> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan
> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to:
>
> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least
> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty as
> an African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the alleged
> Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a
> fraudulent misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's
> IPV4 addresses ended and are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last
> time I checked, is not an African country.
>
>
> Misleading? As in the misleading claim that AFRINIC issued addresses are
> somehow restricted to use in Africa when nothing in the bylaws, RSA, or CPM
> says so?
>
> You continue to repeat this claim despite repeated clarifications and
> corrections on the fallacious nature of the claim. Clearly, you are the one
> engaged in a campaign of disinformation.
>
> Owen
>
>
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> Dear members, 
> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who are 
> taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.
> 
> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of 
> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan 
> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
> 
> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan 
> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to: 
> 
> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least 
> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty as an 
> African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the alleged Letter 
> sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a fraudulent misleading 
> organization requiring some details on how Africa's IPV4 addresses ended and 
> are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last time I checked, is not an 
> African country.

Misleading? As in the misleading claim that AFRINIC issued addresses are 
somehow restricted to use in Africa when nothing in the bylaws, RSA, or CPM 
says so?

You continue to repeat this claim despite repeated clarifications and 
corrections on the fallacious nature of the claim. Clearly, you are the one 
engaged in a campaign of disinformation.

Owen

___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

[Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

Dear members,
My attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources who are
taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and AfriNIC.

In the Video, I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of
Pakistan" but when I paused and looked at the document, The alledged letter
is issued by the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority and not the
government itself.

I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan
telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to:


a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?

b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least
communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?

c- raise a solid query, with regards to their breach of our sovereignty as
an African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nation through the alleged
Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a
fraudulent misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's
IPV4 addresses ended and are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last
time I checked, is not an African country.

d- advise, to seek the truth and apologize to the 2000+ members of AFRINIC
who feel SHOULD be insulted by your letter.


We demand a public apology or clarification from The Pakistan
Telecommunication Authority.


I have delegated a team of Lawyers who are drafting a query to the
Embassy / High Commission of Pakistan here to find the truth about such a
letter and then we will act accordingly.


Amin Dayekh
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss