Re: [computer-go] monte carlo
> > What method are you guys using for the monte carlo search? What do you > > do? > > I pick at random a move, then for the resulting board that comes out of > > that pick another move and so on. > > Then, after that I evaulate the number of stones etc. > > Do you mean you count the score? Make sure you actually count the stone > right, and (quite important) that you are picking out moves really at > random, not skewed in any way. Yes, the score indeed. Well, only the number of stones removed from the board. I did not implement an algorithm to count areas belonging to a color yet. > > What do you guys look at to select a move using monte carlo? > People use heuristics to prefer captures, escaping atari, play local > moves that match certain 3x3 patterns etc. - there is plenty of papers > covering this, I recommend you look at them. It's fairly important to > have all the heuristics somewhat randomized (depending on other parts of > my engine, I've found any value between 60% to 90% probability of > applying each heuristic optimal). Yeah, I rated most of them equally. Some are weighted in depending on applicability. May I ask: how many board-settings (one move + all evaluation) do your programs calculate per second? Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the s...@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] monte carlo
What method are you guys using for the monte carlo search? What do you do? I pick at random a move, then for the resulting board that comes out of that pick another move and so on. Then, after that I evaulate the number of stones etc. What do you guys look at to select a move using monte carlo? On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Folkert van Heusden wrote: > People, > > I'm trying to implement a monthecarlo algorithm in my go program. Now > the results are dramatic: the elo-rating of my go program drops from > 1150 to below 700. I tried: > - evaluate the number of captured stone > - evaluate strategic elements (without MC this strategic eval gives >that 1150 elo). > Currently my program can evaluate 500 scenes per second and I let it > "think" for 5 seconds. > What could be the cause of this dramatic results? Wrong evaluation? Not > enough nodes processed? Folkert van Heusden -- www.vanheusden.com/multitail - multitail is tail on steroids. multiple windows, filtering, coloring, anything you can think of -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] monte carlo
People, I'm trying to implement a monthecarlo algorithm in my go program. Now the results are dramatic: the elo-rating of my go program drops from 1150 to below 700. I tried: - evaluate the number of captured stone - evaluate strategic elements (without MC this strategic eval gives that 1150 elo). Currently my program can evaluate 500 scenes per second and I let it "think" for 5 seconds. What could be the cause of this dramatic results? Wrong evaluation? Not enough nodes processed? Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] cgosview?
What's its url then? On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 08:17:06AM -0400, Jason House wrote: > *sigh* > > I made a wiki for CGOS as part of the sourceforge project. I should just > take it down since it never became the official home page. I don't even > think it has a link to it from the official home page! Even things like > download links are duplicated... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 29, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Petr Baudis wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 01:45:40PM +0200, Lars Schäfers wrote: >>> I remeber a version where the call was just >>> >>> ./cgosview-linux-x86_32 cgos.boardspace.net 6819 >> >> Ahh, thanks, that works. I think the website should be fixed then. :-) >> >>Petr "Pasky" Baudis >> ___ >> computer-go mailing list >> computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > _______________ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail na wan makriki wrokosani fu tan luku den logfile nanga san den commando spiti puru. Piki puru spesrutu sani, wroko nanga difrenti kroru, tya kon makandra, nanga wan lo moro. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] webbased version of my go program
Hi, For those who like to test the latest version of my Go program (current rating around 1100 elo points on cgos), it is now also webbased available: http://vanheusden.com/stop/applet.php Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Orego 6.09 posted
Great! Will you let it play on cgos? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:57:12AM -0700, Peter Drake wrote: > By far the strongest, cleanest code yet. If you're looking to get > started in computer Go and prefer to work in Java, this is the code for > you! > > See command-line-options.txt in the doc directory. > > http://legacy.lclark.edu/~drake/Orego.html > > Enjoy! > > Peter Drake > http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/ > > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- Temperature outside:Not Found The requested URL /temp.php was not found on this server. __ Apache/2.2.11 (Debian) DAV/2 mod_jk/1.2.28 PHP/5.2.9-4 withSuhosin-Patch mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.4 mod_ssl/2.2.11OpenSSL/0.9.8k mod_perl/2.0.4 Perl/v5.10.0 Server at 192.168.64.1Port 80, temperature livingroom: -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] IGS?
> I watched a game of your bot, and it still fills its own eyes, killing Which version did you check? Stop-test2 is the most recent one. It has checks for preventing placing stones in an eye. > alive groups. I suggest you strictly forbid eye-filling moves until the > bot is much stronger (I think it is needed in very few cases to kill > groups). Also it plays many, many bad self-atari moves into the tiger > mouth shape. If you evaluate positions and give them a score, these moves > should receive a worse score. ok, thanks for evaluating this tuesday i'm going to bring a visit to the local Go-club to get them to teach me how to really play Go, beyond placing stones on the board following the most basic rules. > Do you have an account on KGS? (Human, not bot :) > That said, I think you have enough testing opportunities on KGS and > CGOS. It's probably not worth the hassle if IGS doesn't support normal > GTP for bots. :p ok Folkert van Heusden -- www.biglumber.com <- site where one can exchange PGP key signatures -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] IGS?
Hi, Does anyone know how to interface your go program to IGS? It is already on KGS and CGOS but would like to have it play on IGS as well. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Dynamic komi at high handicaps
> My suggestion is to modify a program such as fuego to follow one of the > algorithms as suggested - then test it with a large sample of games. If How? At CGOS? Because i noticed that twogtp.pl says eg constantly that stop-0.4 wins of 0.5 while at cgos I see the opposite. Folkert van Heusden -- Feeling generous? -> http://www.vanheusden.com/wishlist.php -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] when
test Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is een flexibele tool voor het volgen van logfiles en uitvoer van commando's. Filteren, van kleur voorzien, mergen, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> > Yes, known problem :-( I'm still trying to find a method to see if a > > point is in an eye. Should not be too difficult in theory but in > > practice i have not found a method yet. > > Are you talking about 1 point eyes? For this I think most programs use > the same definition, which is quite good and safe. As far as I know there > is no perfect rule but this is close to perfect. I added an evaluation routine that gives points for [number of my stones around me] - [number of opponent stones around me] and then give poioints for that, but that caused a significant drop in elo on cgos (see 00:00 at 13/8 at http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/stats/stop-all-elo-cgos.png ) Maybe I should change the evaluation to [number of my stones] + [number of empty crosses around me] - [opponent stones around me] Don; are you the maintainer of the CGOS server? Tried getting it to work on my system at home but it seems the current TCLKit is not compatible with it. Am trying to run it at home as well so that I can quickly do a testrun to see if a change has a negative or positive effect. > The definition of an eye we use is this: > An empty point whose direct neighbors are all of the same color AND whose > diagonal neighbors contain no more than 1 stone of the opposite color. > This definition must be modified slightly if the point in question is on the > edge of the board - in which case there must be NO diagonal enemy stones. > To know if a point is inside a bigger eye - that's much more speculative I > think. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> Congrats for breaking the 1000 elo mark on cgos. ;) Thanks! Version 0.5 made quiet a difference compared to version 0.4. I'm graphing the elo ratings of the versions running at cgos here: http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/stats/stop-all-elo-cgos.png > Some things I noticed when watching 2 games: > -stop plays on the first line/corner in the beginning. maybe this helps: > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2008-December/017340.html > or this: > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2008-December/017457.html Ok, will read that. > -stop fills its own eyes, killing alive groups. you should prevent moves > that fill own eyes. look here: > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2008-May/014929.html Yes, known problem :-( I'm still trying to find a method to see if a point is in an eye. Should not be too difficult in theory but in practice i have not found a method yet. After a side puts a stone on a cross, I collect all stones and put those in seperate arrays; each chain in a seperate array. Now what I should do is finding out if such a chain makes a circle and then with a simple is-a-point-in-a-polygon-algorithm check if the point is in an eye. Still failing on that. Any tips are welcome! Folkert van Heusden -- Multi tail barnamaj mowahib li mora9abat attasjilat wa nataij awamir al 7asoub. damj, talwin, mora9abat attarchi7 wa ila akhirih. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] place_free_handicap/set_free_handicap
Hi, I might've asked this already but I kind of forgot it: place/set_free_handicap set the locations for black stones, right? stop is now playing as stop-0.5 on gcos and stopgo on kgs Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Superko vs transposition table (was Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation)
>> What is superko? >> My program keeps a list of all board-positions and then if it whants to >> do a move it checks if the new board-position is in the list. If so, it >> throws that move away. Are there other checks I need to do as well? > > Superko involves repeating a previous board position. Various forms of > this are forbidden by various rulesets, see > http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html#threeKK > What you are doing ensures that your program will never violate any form > of the rule. Not this one, does it? "Restatement of the ko rule. One may not capture just one stone, if that stone was played on the previous move, and that move also captured just one stone." (from wikipedia) Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Superko vs transposition table (was Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation)
>> What is superko? >> My program keeps a list of all board-positions and then if it whants to >> do a move it checks if the new board-position is in the list. If so, it >> throws that move away. Are there other checks I need to do as well? > > Superko involves repeating a previous board position. Various forms of > this are forbidden by various rulesets, see > http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html#threeKK > What you are doing ensures that your program will never violate any form > of the rule. Ah ok! Odd is though that CGOS complains about Illegal KO attempted. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los "log file" y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Superko vs transposition table (was Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation)
> I fixed allowing multiple suicide in playouts, but it didn't make the > many wasted playouts go away on Sheppard's position. > On further investivation, the problem has to do with the interaction > between superko and the transposition table. > Currently, Orego checks only simple ko most of the time. Superko is only > checked at the top level, before playing a "real" move (as opposed to a > move in a playout). This means that, within the transposition table, > superko can lead to an actual cycle. Orego does have a max number of > moves per playout, so it doesn't crash, but it does throw away such > playouts. What is superko? My program keeps a list of all board-positions and then if it whants to do a move it checks if the new board-position is in the list. If so, it throws that move away. Are there other checks I need to do as well? Folkert van Heusden -- Feeling generous? -> http://www.vanheusden.com/wishlist.php -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] matching 2 engines with sanity checks
Yes, that's it. Checks if an engine does an illegal ko, puts a piece where already is a piece, etc. On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 04:15:18PM -0400, Joshua Shriver wrote: > What do you mean by sanity checks? Such as legal moves? > > I wrote a chess engine vs engine app, could gut and reuse it for go and > possible add legal move checking to it. > > -Josh > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Folkert van Heusden > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > CGOS does sanity checks on the moves played by the engines that are > > matched. Problem is that it might take a few hours before bugs get > > triggered (due to scheduling of matches). > > GoGui can let an engine play against itself and then does also does > > sanity-checks but it is possible that certain bugs in an engine won't > > get triggered. > > So I was wondering: are there any other tools available for matching > > engines WITH validity-checks? > > > > > > Folkert van Heusden > > > > -- > > MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione > > di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view', > > etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ > > -- > > Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com > > ___ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] matching 2 engines with sanity checks
Hi, CGOS does sanity checks on the moves played by the engines that are matched. Problem is that it might take a few hours before bugs get triggered (due to scheduling of matches). GoGui can let an engine play against itself and then does also does sanity-checks but it is possible that certain bugs in an engine won't get triggered. So I was wondering: are there any other tools available for matching engines WITH validity-checks? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] processor power available
If you people like, I can run other Go engines on my pc here as well on GCOS? Because I saw that for example Brown is not playing over there. Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> I think the problem is yours, there is no known problem anything like this > in Ggogui and I have been using it for a long time. > Is your notation correct? In Go there is no 'i' file, we go from h to j > skipping i.You may already know that of course if you are a go player Unfortunately I'm a total newbie/beginner for Go, I started reading it last sunday. So I might hit on some more issues. > but it still leads to bugs if you don't code it correctly. Ah darn, I didn't know that and it seems I missed that in the documentation of the protocol. This explains why for example a 5x5 board always ran fine. [somewhat later] Yes now it fully works! Thanks for the help! Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> Welcome. :) thanks! > Consider implementing GTP so that your program can be used with nice > GUIs such as GoGui. Got problems using GoGui: after a few moves (mostly after around 30 moves) GoGui says "Stop played on a non-empty point". But I verified both in the logging of my program (which is called 'Stop') and in the logging of GoGui itself (Tools -> Save Log) that no moves are repeated. Using GoGui 1.1.10. Can it be a known problem? Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] new kid on the block
I started yesterday to create a new Go program. It is called 'Stop' and is written in Java. The .jar-file can be found on my website: http://www.vanheusden.com/stop/ It is console-only (i.e. text-only) and can be invoked like this: java -jar stop-0.2.jar It is still very much in the beginning of development so some bugs may still exist. All feedback is welcome! Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] libraries
Hi, Are there any libraries in c/c++/java for development of a go-brain? I imagine that things like finding connected areas has been implemented a million times? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
