Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
I meant that corporations do not become feasible until government matures enough to provide the infrastructure they depend on. Legal, police, fire (some of my taxes go to volunteer fire dept.), roads and laws to make trade possible. Since they are legal entities making income, it is logical to tax them. To try to give them a free ride would make serfs of people of regular means. Have you thought about what goes into all of these government services (federal, state and local)? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- You make several unsupported or undefined assumptions below: 1. Modern business depends on modern government. Please define these terms? The limited liability corporation dates to at least the 16th century, possibly before. When do you date the beginnings of modern government? What is a Modern business? 2. It is Government that provides police protections and other infrastructure required by all of us. This statement seems to imply that all infrastructure that is required comes from government. That is demonstrably no so to anyone who has used a telephone or been served by a volunteer fire company for instance. In any event, we must be careful not to conflate required with desired. 3. If corporations pay less, then the rest of us must pay for it, or subsidize them. All corporate income comes from the customer base (read the rest of us), we pay all taxes, directly or indirectly. Corporations have two choices over the long term - pass on all costs to their customers, and taxation is a cost, or loose money until the capital investment is gone and then cease business. Matthew On Aug 20, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Snyder, Mark (IT CIV) wrote: Modern business (corporations, etc.) is possible because of modern government. It is Government that provides police protections and other infrastructure required by all of us. The only way for all of us to have these is to pay for them. If corporations pay less, then the rest of us must pay for it, or subsidize them. I am not willing to cover the tax obligations of others, especially large corporations. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject:TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. © 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
If it is real, it is stupid. I would not respond to any such message. I would rather lose the account. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject:TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. (c) 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
This absolutely, positively looks like the classic phishing scheme that everyone warns us about. Don't do it without checking it out with Starpower first. They should have all this information already. --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:18 AM is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. © 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
i agree about the phishing, but the return address seemed legit! i tried to send to spoof @star it bounced back! will try [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This absolutely, positively looks like the classic phishing scheme that everyone warns us about. Don't do it without checking it out with Starpower first. They should have all this information already. --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:18 AM is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject:TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. © 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
Just for future reference, what specifically makes you think it looks real? I see no such indication anywhere. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject:TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! NO WAY is this real. No real company would ever send out a message requesting your user information and password. There are other giveaways as well. First, the grammar is atrocious. Second, the reply-to address is not at Starpower. This is a classic phishing scam, so delete it and forget about it. Never respond to ANY email that asks for passwords, account numbers, etc. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
Short answer: THIS IS NOT REAL. This is absolutely a scam. Report it to Starpower NOT using the email address in the mail. The long answer: Look a little more carefully, and there are lots of things about it that don't sound real at all. For starters, it sounds like a typical phishing scam (something is bad, give us your password to fix). Next, look at the headers on the message. Looks very suspicious. While it claims to be from starpower, the reply-to is to some addrss at i12.com - a quick look at i12.com shows that it is an ISP in Europe. Why would Starpower have you reply to someone in Europe? Starpower should also NEVER ask you for your account info. They may make you log into a service to verify that you are you - but asking you for the info via email doesn't verify anything. Finally, a quick look at RCN and Starpower's home and news pages don't show anything at all about any problems they're encountering. This has all the hallmarks of a scam. Your best bet would be to contact Starpower/RCN using the contact information they have posted on their website, and give them everything you have given us. They're in the best position to take action. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 08:18:44AM -0500, Judy Cosler wrote: is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. ? 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
It looks like a phishing email and a WHOIS search for the owner of the i12.com domain turned up an organization in the UK. Of course, the classic sign is the plain request for your password. You shouldn't reply, but forward the email to Starpower's abuse reporting email address. Scott - Original Message From: Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:18:44 AM Subject: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT] is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. © 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
i did! thanks. the from address looked real. that was what threw me off! Scott McClure wrote: It looks like a phishing email and a WHOIS search for the owner of the i12.com domain turned up an organization in the UK. Of course, the classic sign is the plain request for your password. You shouldn't reply, but forward the email to Starpower's abuse reporting email address. Scott - Original Message From: Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:18:44 AM Subject: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT] is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree about the phishing, but the return address seemed legit! i tried to send to spoof @star it bounced back! will try [EMAIL PROTECTED] Try [EMAIL PROTECTED] if phish@,,, fails [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This absolutely, positively looks like the classic phishing scheme that everyone warns us about. Don't do it without checking it out with Starpower first. They should have all this information already. --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Judy Cosler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:18 AM is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! Original Message Subject:TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Starpower Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT We are currently carrying out an upgrade on our system due to the fact that it has come to our notice that one or more of our subscribers are introducing a very strong virus into our system and it is affecting our network.We are trying to find out the specific person. For this reason all subscribers are to provide their USER NAME AND PASSWORD for us to verify and have them cleared against this virus. Failure to comply will lead to the termination of your Account in the next 48 hours. Information to send; EMAIL ADDRESS: USERNAME: PASSWORD: Hoping to serve you better. Sincerely, Starpower Support This is an Administrative Message from Starpower internet. It is not spam. From time to time,Starpower. will send you such messages in order to communicate important information about your subscription. (c) 2008 RCN Digital Services, LLC. All rights reserved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 09:53:24AM -0500, Judy Cosler wrote: the from address looked real. that was what threw me off! Remember - the from address on email is just like the return address on a letter you might get in the paper-post. The post office doesn't check the address when you mail a letter - and neither does anyone on the Internet when you email a message. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
StarPower already has full access to your email account... they have no need for your password. Silly Phishing scam. - Brian -- Dear Subscriber, TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
Chris Dunford sez: This is a classic phishing scam, so delete it and forget about it. Never respond to ANY email that asks for passwords, account numbers, etc. Also, never click on links to websites in emails that ask you to verify your information. If it is a company/bank that you do have an account with or regularly do business with, go to their website yourself and sign in. Then use their customer service pages to contact them about whatever the issue is. Of course, this does not necessarily include verification emails with links sent to you when you sign on to a forum or service. However, once you are signed in and verified, do not click on links in emails that are supposedly from them. It only adds a second or two of time and will ensure you're not clicking on faked links in email. (Ah, the wonders of HTML mail. :) Usually if you choose to view the source of an HTML-ized email -- even those made to look like plain text -- the full link will show it doesn't go where one thought it might.) -- Michael Lewis Off Balance Productions [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.offbalance.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
Don't blame the corporations. They play by the rules (and loopholes) enacted by congress. And don't blame the GOP; the dems have had 2 years of power and I've seen no effort on their part to fix this situation. Not fair. With ultra slim majorities in the last few years, neither party has been able to set any agenda. With too many ideologues on both sides, compromise has not been a possibility. The problem is voting by party. We would all be better off voting for moderates who are not stupid or corrupt. If that were possible. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
Another way to avoid phishing attacks is to switch to Open DNS (opendns.com). They filter known phishing sites and give you a warning page. ( http://www.opendns.com/features/phishing/) On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Michael Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Chris Dunford sez: This is a classic phishing scam, so delete it and forget about it. Never respond to ANY email that asks for passwords, account numbers, etc. Also, never click on links to websites in emails that ask you to verify your information. If it is a company/bank that you do have an account with or regularly do business with, go to their website yourself and sign in. Then use their customer service pages to contact them about whatever the issue is. Of course, this does not necessarily include verification emails with links sent to you when you sign on to a forum or service. However, once you are signed in and verified, do not click on links in emails that are supposedly from them. It only adds a second or two of time and will ensure you're not clicking on faked links in email. (Ah, the wonders of HTML mail. :) Usually if you choose to view the source of an HTML-ized email -- even those made to look like plain text -- the full link will show it doesn't go where one thought it might.) -- Michael Lewis Off Balance Productions [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.offbalance.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
All corporate income comes from the customer base (read the rest of us), we pay all taxes, directly or indirectly. Corporations have two choices over the long term - pass on all costs to their customers, and taxation is a cost, or loose money until the capital investment is gone and then cease business. You miss the cause of the problem. In recent years a very small segment of the population has been skimming off $Billions of corporate profits. In effect the profits that would have been taxed to provide for the common good have been diverted into private hands. - The disgraced CEO of Countrywide financial paid himself $48M in 2006. - Ditto Bear Stearns $40M. - CVS drugstores $26M - Exxon Mobile $27M - ATT $25M - Verizon $26M - Qwest $18M etc. etc. But I guess that is okay if you are one of those be considers $5M/yr to be a middle-class income. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
It's worse then you think if you are measuring this way.. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/28/business/fi-mozilo28 On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All corporate income comes from the customer base (read the rest of us), we pay all taxes, directly or indirectly. Corporations have two choices over the long term - pass on all costs to their customers, and taxation is a cost, or loose money until the capital investment is gone and then cease business. You miss the cause of the problem. In recent years a very small segment of the population has been skimming off $Billions of corporate profits. In effect the profits that would have been taxed to provide for the common good have been diverted into private hands. - The disgraced CEO of Countrywide financial paid himself $48M in 2006. - Ditto Bear Stearns $40M. - CVS drugstores $26M - Exxon Mobile $27M - ATT $25M - Verizon $26M - Qwest $18M etc. etc. But I guess that is okay if you are one of those be considers $5M/yr to be a middle-class income. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our mone
After careful review of the AP's story, Tax Foundation economist Josh Barro found that the AP significantly overstated the number of large corporations not paying corporate taxes. Tax Foundation vs. GAO, who to trust? Hired guns for the radical right or a non-partisan Congressional agency? The Congressional agencies tend to be very good at staying impartial because they have to serve both parties and survive changes in leadership. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
It's worse then you think if you are measuring this way.. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/28/business/fi-mozilo28 That is right, my figures did not include stock options, which often are many times larger than the standard compensation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
I don't and can't imaging anyone who would. But I guess that is okay if you are one of those be considers $5M/yr to be a middle-class income. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our mone
The argument was over the analysis of the GAO report by the AP. The claim is that the AP misrepresented the GAO report. But then the press never errs. Matthew On Aug 21, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: After careful review of the AP's story, Tax Foundation economist Josh Barro found that the AP significantly overstated the number of large corporations not paying corporate taxes. Tax Foundation vs. GAO, who to trust? Hired guns for the radical right or a non-partisan Congressional agency? The Congressional agencies tend to be very good at staying impartial because they have to serve both parties and survive changes in leadership. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
How do you conclude that corporate income belongs to the state via taxation, and any reduction in the tax take is a subsidy? The line income belongs to the state is nutty thinking and precludes any rational discussion. Nobody but dead Marxist-Leninists ever takes such an extreme position. You insult us by bring out such a straw man. Taxes are the price we pay for civilization. If you don't want to be civilized you should go buy your own island and move there. Just don't expect to get good broadband when you do. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: TERMINATION OF YOUR STARPOWER WEBMAIL ACCOUNT]
On Aug 21, 2008, at 9:18 AM, Judy Cosler wrote: is this real looks like it, but never been asked for password before! I would never respond to such a post. I can see all kinds of reasons not to reply, and no reasons why I would. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
That is why the original assertion is scary. The assertion was made that profits not collected via taxation were a subsidy. A subsidy is when you give something that is yours by right to another party to encourage action by that party. For profits not claimed via taxation to be a subsidy, the profits must be assumed to belong not to the corporation, but to the taxing authority - they state. Matthew On Aug 21, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: How do you conclude that corporate income belongs to the state via taxation, and any reduction in the tax take is a subsidy? The line income belongs to the state is nutty thinking and precludes any rational discussion. Nobody but dead Marxist-Leninists ever takes such an extreme position. You insult us by bring out such a straw man. Taxes are the price we pay for civilization. If you don't want to be civilized you should go buy your own island and move there. Just don't expect to get good broadband when you do. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Apple iCard substitute?
Apple discontinued its free iCard service in July 2008. I had used it a lot; it was a good way to send a modest email greeting card, especially if you'd forgotten to snail-mail a regular card in time for someone's birthday; and it was great for casual Christmas/ holiday season cards to associates only known through email addresses. Does anyone know of any similar services, where you can send an electronic card to someone's email address? I'd especially like to know about services where you don't have to join a group, give away all your contact information, fill out a complicated form, or allow tons of cookies on your machine. It would be nice also if the service were free. I don't object to paying for a card, online or offline, but I'm not going to risk my precious credit card information online for the sake of a greeting card. (Yes, I know the sites are supposed to be secure--I just don't like the risk. I'll take risks for a really necessary purchase; but not for a birthday card.) If there are no electronic greeting cards out there, I'll probably make my own electronic greeting cards. I'll should have enough lead time before December to make some modest holiday cards. But I would like to know if there are any Apple iCard substitutes out there. (And also it would be interesting to hear if anyone else had done their own electronic greeting cards.) --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
I don't and can't imaging anyone who would. But I guess that is okay if you are one of those be considers $5M/yr to be a middle-class income. Maybe someone running for high public office? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
If you are referring to McCain, he was evading a question on income wealth with an absurdly high number. You can't seriously believe he thinks 5M a year is middle class. Though he had the good sense to realize immediately, and say that his joke would be taken seriously by his opponents. I guess that includes you. Tom Piwowar wrote: I don't and can't imaging anyone who would. But I guess that is okay if you are one of those be considers $5M/yr to be a middle-class income. Maybe someone running for high public office? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...]
Not so. It is the highest in the industrialized world. See Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world The Problem with stating the rates are the highest is that while the rates may be high, the actual amounts paid amount to among the lowest in the world. See for example: http://www.smartmoney.com/invisiblehand/index.cfm?story=20080125-corporate-tax-rate There have been numerous news articles showing exactly what share of the GDP or gross earnings of corporations actually gets paid in taxes. IOW, you've apparently fallen for a con game by corporations on taxation. Now if tax loopholes were closed, US corporations might have a point but most loopholes benefit large corporations. S corporations and closely held corporations have numerous opportunities to escape taxation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account
For the third or fourth time I have been automatically unsubscribed to this listserv because, the notice says, messages have been bounced back from my Cox email account. Each time before I resubscribed, but this time I have set up a gmail account for receiving listserv messages. This message is a test to see if I can post from the new gmail account to the listserv. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account
Post successful. I've been using gmail for this for years. Just don't expect to see your own messages until someone replies. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the third or fourth time I have been automatically unsubscribed to this listserv because, the notice says, messages have been bounced back from my Cox email account. Each time before I resubscribed, but this time I have set up a gmail account for receiving listserv messages. This message is a test to see if I can post from the new gmail account to the listserv. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account
Thanks for the reply. However, I don't see my original message at all. This is the same as different group that I belong to, a Yahoo group, that comes to a gmail account. I can't tell if my message is received unless someone replies to it. John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Post successful. I've been using gmail for this for years. Just don't expect to see your own messages until someone replies. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account -- P.S.
Actually, I resubscribed to the Computer Guys to the Cox address as well as subscribing for same on the my gmail address, to see if there were any differences. I figure in a few weeks the Cox address will be unsubscribed once again. My question: the gmail account is a POP address; I'm using Thunderbird. When I get messages via Thunderbird from this listserv, what happens to the messages at gmail? Are they saved on gmail, or are they erased when I view them in Thunderbird? The reason that I ask is for an archival purpose: if messages are saved on gmail, I can erase old messages in the Thunderbird folder. John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Post successful. I've been using gmail for this for years. Just don't expect to see your own messages until someone replies. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account
For the third or fourth time I have been automatically unsubscribed to this listserv because, the notice says, messages have been bounced back from my Cox email account. Each time before I resubscribed, but this time I have set up a gmail account for receiving listserv messages. I would not trust Cox or Comcast with any of my email. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account
However, I don't see my original message at all. This is the same as different group that I belong to, a Yahoo group, that comes to a gmail account. I can't tell if my message is received unless someone replies to it. You can always take a look at cguys.org or one of the archives. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
If you are referring to McCain, he was evading a question on income wealth with an absurdly high number. You can't seriously believe he thinks 5M a year is middle class. This is the guy who owns so many houses that he can't recall how many? I could understand being a bit fuzzy about how many gold bars he has stored in the basement, but forgetting about a whole house? Wow! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account -- P.S.
IMHO, you should go whole hog and give up the POP. At least give it a fair trial for a few months. Lots of advantages, though it takes a bit of getting used to. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My question: the gmail account is a POP address; I'm using Thunderbird. When I get messages via Thunderbird from this listserv, what happens to the messages at gmail? Are they saved on gmail, or are they erased when I view them in Thunderbird? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
A reporter apparently noted that technically he owns no houses...this was on politico. All of them are owned by Cindy or members of the family. Mike On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are referring to McCain, he was evading a question on income wealth with an absurdly high number. You can't seriously believe he thinks 5M a year is middle class. This is the guy who owns so many houses that he can't recall how many? I could understand being a bit fuzzy about how many gold bars he has stored in the basement, but forgetting about a whole house? Wow! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
That is why the original assertion is scary. The assertion was made that profits not collected via taxation were a subsidy. A subsidy is when you give something that is yours by right to another party to encourage action by that party. For profits not claimed via taxation to be a subsidy, the profits must be assumed to belong not to the corporation, but to the taxing authority - they state. You say A subsidy is when you give something that is yours by right to another party to encourage action by that party. My American Heritage Dictionary says: Monetary assistance granted by a government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as being in the public interest. So I would say that you have peverted the meaning of subsidy to suit your own purposes. Monetary assistance can take many forms. You can give somebody money, or you can give them a discount, or you can give them an exemption from a tax that other people are obligated to pay, or probably many other ways. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account -- P.S.
My question: the gmail account is a POP address; I'm using Thunderbird. When I get messages via Thunderbird from this listserv, what happens to the messages at gmail? Are they saved on gmail, or are they erased when I view them in Thunderbird? If you set it up as POP the messages are downloaded into your computer. Whether they are deleted from the server depends on your email settings. Why don't you set it up as IMAP. Google lets you do that and that workse better in many cases. The reason that I ask is for an archival purpose: if messages are saved on gmail, I can erase old messages in the Thunderbird folder. Why do that? The list is archived in three places. Two are web accessible and one of those went back to upload all of the available ListServ archives. So it goes way back. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
Also unfair. I'm sure he knows how many houses HE has, but not how many his rich wife with all her trusts has. And lets not get into the rich wives area; I'm sure Cindy, with her measly $100M would be considered middle class by Theresa with her $1B. Tom Piwowar wrote: If you are referring to McCain, he was evading a question on income wealth with an absurdly high number. You can't seriously believe he thinks 5M a year is middle class. This is the guy who owns so many houses that he can't recall how many? I could understand being a bit fuzzy about how many gold bars he has stored in the basement, but forgetting about a whole house? Wow! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
Not only that but Obama's income with his wife for last year was listed as 4.3 million not bad for a guy who has done public service most of his life. Stewart At 09:01 PM 8/21/2008, you wrote: Also unfair. I'm sure he knows how many houses HE has, but not how many his rich wife with all her trusts has. And lets not get into the rich wives area; I'm sure Cindy, with her measly $100M would be considered middle class by Theresa with her $1B. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
That is why the original assertion is scary. The assertion was made that profits not collected via taxation were a subsidy. A subsidy is when you give something that is yours by right to another party to encourage action by that party. For profits not claimed via taxation to be a subsidy, the profits must be assumed to belong not to the corporation, but to the taxing authority - they state. You're easily scared. It's a little confusing, but not so scary. Do you do your own business taxes? Profits are just that--revenue that remains after costs/expenses. Taxes are fees treated as expenses that are incurred to cover the cost of all the services that are provided by society so that the corporations/companies can do their business without undue distractions, competition expenses, or costs for infrastructure and public support services. Most corporations are regulated in one way or another, mostly to keep them from abusing the public, as they have done for hundreds of years [that's why they have renewable charters or licenses from states]. By giving a monopoly to a broadband provider, in effect they get a subsidy which is no different from the subsidies that we still give to the oil companies, just not usually much. OK don't call it a subsidy, call it a tax break, or a gift, or legally locking out potential competitors if there are any, so that the provider can make a bigger profit as an incentive to develop their network. That results in higher profits, or lower expenses than would exist without the legal monopoly--hence a SCARY subsidy. The rest is profits. I wonder how prices will change if we eliminate corporate taxes and replace them with a VAT [value-added tax], no exceptions. At first glance VAT looks like it would add a lot to prices for goods. Countries with VAT have higher prices, don't they? Not necessarily. I like shopping in Spain and France where many goods are cheaper than here, even with the currency fluctuation and VAT. It could work in the US, but will the prices remain pretty much the same? It appears that they could, if implemented carefully. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
Not only that but Obama's income with his wife for last year was listed as 4.3 million not bad for a guy who has done public service most of his life. You should write a book too. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Testing my new Computer Guys email account -- P.S.
My question: the gmail account is a POP address; I'm using Thunderbird. When I get messages via Thunderbird from this listserv, what happens to the messages at gmail? Are they saved on gmail, or are they erased when I view them in Thunderbird? The reason that I ask is for an archival purpose: if messages are saved on gmail, I can erase old messages in the Thunderbird folder. In Thunderbird account settings [ToolsAccount SettingsServer Settings] check the box Leave messages on server. I do that for accounts that I share with my husband, or to retrieve email away from home. For important email that I want to save [really important like my nieces' first day at school photos that I got today, and keeping track of rebates], I download messages to Thunderbird. I don't trust online email without duplicating it locally. I've had a dozen or so ISPs and email providers disappear since the early 90s, along with my email--some without notice. Do you think GMail will last forever? I hope my Lonely Planet and United TRansnational Republics email lasts as long. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Amazon.com
Has anyone tried unsuccessfully placing orders at Amazon.com recently? I'm trying to order a few odds n ends but keep getting errors in Firefox and IE6 - for about two weeks now. I managed to order a single item just now, so I know they aren't down entirely. Strange. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
