Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

That brings up the the "Too Big to be good" equation again.

Sometimes size is an impediment to growth and quality and resources.

I know there are some who bash Wal-Mart here.  At one time their 
model was good.  There were many small towns that had no shopping 
till Sam brought his store to town, and he aimed at a store that 
could supply what the folks wanted at a reasonable price.


I remember when traveling through Arkansas many years ago those 
stores and wondering what they were.


What Sam started has turned into a monster of sorts.

When I lived in Wisconsin, I saw a lot of dairy farms (many of my 
members were some) There was a size point that had to be reached so 
that the small family farm could be profitable but still manageable.


There were a few of the super farms there, but there was a 
problem.  They specialized in only producing milk.  All their 
byproducts from the production of milk then had to be dealt 
with.  You see on a smaller operation all waste products are recycled 
into the land.  Yes there was a holding tank or manure pile but it 
was then recycled within a short period of time.  These huge farms 
have a big waste problem that needs to be dealt with.


You also have to deal with the animal issue.  I knew some 
veterinarians who would not deal with these farms.  You see many 
farmers even though they are using these cows for milk production 
also cared about these animals and wanted them in the best health and 
condition.  Corporate milk farms did not care about animal health and 
condition, only production.  If a cow slows down or stops producing 
time to rotate it out.  Thereby getting you an inferior product.


Breeding is a big key to the family dairy farm, you breed for 
production, but also quality and longevity.


Once a farm gets too big those things are not looked at only production.

Oh by the way both farms get paid the same amount for their milk, so 
there is no better price paid for quantity.  But there is a 
difference in quality payments.


Big companies after a little while forget about the quality issue and 
only think profit.


I am wondering (I know that is always dangerous) how much of our 
supposed wealth on Wall street was driven solely by quantity and was 
not really wealth but an illusion of wealth?


Oh to keep this computer oriented.  Small farmers are big tech 
guys.  They keep all their records on computer, and track all their 
cows progress and production via computer so that they get breed with 
the best steer semen for offspring.


Stewart


At 11:14 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
They've been bailed out before.  But I think you're mostly right.


There are US manufacturers that are still alive and are doing
things right.  Unfortunately too few.

You don't see them in the news because they aren't in trouble.

I happen to know bicycles and audio.  US (all onshore) companies
like Waterford and Magnepan are more than world class.  Yes
they are small but they are making product that is universally
desired at competitive prices.

In other words they can sell everything they make, ship product
that is worth paying a premium to get outside of the US, and run
businesses that stay in the black for decades, many decades.

Well respected US product.  That people in Australia, Europe
and Japan are willing to pay top dollar for.  Our manufacturers
ARE capable of doing this.

These brands (that you may never have heard of, OK) can do
it.  They don't have a lot of people, capitalization, etc.  But they
get the job done.

Nobody disputes that well made US products aren't world class, but 
we are not going to get out of this mess by supporting

companies that make bad decisions.

I'm not inclined to reward bad behavior.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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[CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[Mike Sloane]

Friday February 20, 2009 02:00 pm
Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs
By Jamie


Chalk this up as forcing you to become big brother:

Republican politicians on Thursday called for a sweeping new 
federal law that would require all Internet providers and operators of 
millions of Wi-Fi access points, even hotels, local coffee shops, and 
home users, to keep records about users for two years to aid police 
investigations.


The legislation, which echoes a measure proposed by one of their 
Democratic colleagues three years ago, would impose unprecedented data 
retention requirements on a broad swath of Internet access providers and 
is certain to draw fire from businesses and privacy advocates.


"While the Internet has generated many positive changes in the way 
we communicate and do business, its limitless nature offers anonymity 
that has opened the door to criminals looking to harm innocent 
children," U.S. Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, said at a press 
conference on Thursday. "Keeping our children safe requires cooperation 
on the local, state, federal, and family level."


Joining Cornyn was Texas Rep. Lamar Smith, the senior Republican on 
the House Judiciary Committee, and Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, 
who said such a measure would let "law enforcement stay ahead of the 
criminals."


Two bills have been introduced so far--S.436 in the Senate and 
H.R.1076 in the House. Each of the companion bills is titled "Internet 
Stopping Adults Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act," or 
Internet Safety Act.


So in essence, if you have a wireless router in your home then you would 
be required to log all access to that router and keep those logs for two 
years. Why? Because your neighbor might do something bad and use your 
internet connection to do it.


What has me scratching my head is the situation of failure. What if my 
$50 Linksys decides to bite the dust after one year? Do I have to store 
that router for another year to comply with this law?


How about people who have routers without logging, or that has very 
limited logging that might only keep X number of records and couldn’t 
possibly store the data for two years? Will these people have to go out 
and by new routers now?


This legislation will really cause outcries from privacy advocates. Just 
the idea that some people may have to go out and buy new hardware simply 
to become a new “big brother” for our government is very troubling.



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

> A Smart Car I would use for local driving but not for highway, but as
> that above video shows it is a fairly safe car.

Keep in mind that when cars are rated for crashworthiness, it's only for
cars in the same weight class.  The rating for the Honda Fit and the Audi
Q7, both IIHS top picks, are not comparable.

Eventually though, physics will win out; mass=safer.  This is a general
rule.  You can have a massive car that's prone to rollovers or is poorly
designed, leading to greater injuries, but all things being equal, the car
with less mass will lose.

> We have the technology to make very safe cars.  Anyone who has
> watched car racing has seen horrific accidents where the drivers come
> out with little to no injuries.  But as with all technology it costs
> money.

And they cost about 5 times what a normal car costs.  5-point harnesses,
stripped out interiors, driver cages, neck restraints, etc.  Yes, they're
safe, but only for one person and can take several minutes to get into. 

> Another thing to make driving safer is to better equip drivers, and
> that involves way more training than what they normally get.

Yep.  There's the weak link.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

> Them Smart Cars are pretty tough.  <
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwk8f_5Yw00>

Impressive, but it literally bounces off the larger car in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZs1QuHerTU&feature=related


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Re: [CGUYS] COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 19 Feb 2009 (#2009-192)

[Jeff Wright]

> Note that if you are like me and want to use POP that doesn't stop you
> from using Gmail. 

Yes, I do know that.  "POP3" was just shorthand for saying "staying with
your crappy ISP," but obviously shorthand wasn't a good choice there.

The best solution is to dump the ISP mail and use Gmail via IMAP.  You get
the best of both worlds; local access with online backup and spam filtering.
You can also configure Gmail for offline access.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

> Them Smart Cars are pretty tough.  <
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwk8f_5Yw00>

An even better video with a good explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz-s1sIoLhU&NR=1


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[mike]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341476,00.asp

I'll set a link to the story from a less...political leaning site.

Most people can't keep their family photos without help...not sure how they
will mandate keeping this kind of data.  Perhaps if they come up with a good
plan it can be shot down, then used by noobs to save the data they want to
save for themselves.


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[gerald]

how does one keep these records?  it would be one thing if i sat on utube all 
day, but i bounce through probably 10-20 sites an hour.  my wife uses the same 
router, and does even more.  when our service  goes down, we get on the server 
next door.  since they don't do security very well and are usually not home, 
they do not know we are piggybacking.

At 08:24 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>Friday February 20, 2009 02:00 pm
>Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs
>By Jamie
>
>
>Chalk this up as forcing you to become big brother:
>
>Republican politicians on Thursday called for a sweeping new federal law 
> that would require all Internet providers and operators of millions of Wi-Fi 
> access points, even hotels, local coffee shops, and home users, to keep 
> records about users for two years to aid police investigations.
>
>The legislation, which echoes a measure proposed by one of their 
> Democratic colleagues three years ago, would impose unprecedented data 
> retention requirements on a broad swath of Internet access providers and is 
> certain to draw fire from businesses and privacy advocates.
>
>"While the Internet has generated many positive changes in the way we 
> communicate and do business, its limitless nature offers anonymity that has 
> opened the door to criminals looking to harm innocent children," U.S. Sen. 
> John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, said at a press conference on Thursday. 
> "Keeping our children safe requires cooperation on the local, state, federal, 
> and family level."
>
>Joining Cornyn was Texas Rep. Lamar Smith, the senior Republican on the 
> House Judiciary Committee, and Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, who said 
> such a measure would let "law enforcement stay ahead of the criminals."
>
>Two bills have been introduced so far--S.436 in the Senate and H.R.1076 in 
> the House. Each of the companion bills is titled "Internet Stopping Adults 
> Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act," or Internet Safety Act.
>
>So in essence, if you have a wireless router in your home then you would be 
>required to log all access to that router and keep those logs for two years. 
>Why? Because your neighbor might do something bad and use your internet 
>connection to do it.
>
>What has me scratching my head is the situation of failure. What if my $50 
>Linksys decides to bite the dust after one year? Do I have to store that 
>router for another year to comply with this law?
>
>How about people who have routers without logging, or that has very limited 
>logging that might only keep X number of records and couldn’t possibly store 
>the data for two years? Will these people have to go out and by new routers 
>now?
>
>This legislation will really cause outcries from privacy advocates. Just the 
>idea that some people may have to go out and buy new hardware simply to become 
>a new “big brother” for our government is very troubling.
>
>
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[CGUYS] Windows apps off the desktop

[Joe]

I'm trying to run an app on my laptop that won't appear on my desktop.  In the 
past I resolved this by reducing then restoring my screen resolution, but this 
time it didn't work.  Does anyone else know what I could do?

tia,

 - Joe


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[mike]

Also, will they make VPN's illegal?  I know a few admins on IRC who tunnel
from work to their home system so they can continue doing whatever they want
but not on their work system.

Anytime you hear 'it's for the kids' be prepared to be shoveled some horse
manure from either side.

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:42 AM, gerald  wrote:

> how does one keep these records?  it would be one thing if i sat on utube
> all day, but i bounce through probably 10-20 sites an hour.  my wife uses
> the same router, and does even more.  when our service  goes down, we get on
> the server next door.  since they don't do security very well and are
> usually not home, they do not know we are piggybacking.
>
> At 08:24 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
> >Friday February 20, 2009 02:00 pm
> >Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs
> >By Jamie
> ><
> http://crooksandliars.com/jamie/republican-bill-would-require-home-owners-re
> >
> >
> >Chalk this up as forcing you to become big brother:
> >
> >Republican politicians on Thursday called for a sweeping new federal
> law that would require all Internet providers and operators of millions of
> Wi-Fi access points, even hotels, local coffee shops, and home users, to
> keep records about users for two years to aid police investigations.
> >
> >The legislation, which echoes a measure proposed by one of their
> Democratic colleagues three years ago, would impose unprecedented data
> retention requirements on a broad swath of Internet access providers and is
> certain to draw fire from businesses and privacy advocates.
> >
> >"While the Internet has generated many positive changes in the way we
> communicate and do business, its limitless nature offers anonymity that has
> opened the door to criminals looking to harm innocent children," U.S. Sen.
> John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, said at a press conference on Thursday.
> "Keeping our children safe requires cooperation on the local, state,
> federal, and family level."
> >
> >Joining Cornyn was Texas Rep. Lamar Smith, the senior Republican on
> the House Judiciary Committee, and Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, who
> said such a measure would let "law enforcement stay ahead of the criminals."
> >
> >Two bills have been introduced so far--S.436 in the Senate and
> H.R.1076 in the House. Each of the companion bills is titled "Internet
> Stopping Adults Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act," or
> Internet Safety Act.
> >
> >So in essence, if you have a wireless router in your home then you would
> be required to log all access to that router and keep those logs for two
> years. Why? Because your neighbor might do something bad and use your
> internet connection to do it.
> >
> >What has me scratching my head is the situation of failure. What if my $50
> Linksys decides to bite the dust after one year? Do I have to store that
> router for another year to comply with this law?
> >
> >How about people who have routers without logging, or that has very
> limited logging that might only keep X number of records and couldn't
> possibly store the data for two years? Will these people have to go out and
> by new routers now?
> >
> >This legislation will really cause outcries from privacy advocates. Just
> the idea that some people may have to go out and buy new hardware simply to
> become a new "big brother" for our government is very troubling.
> >
> >
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>
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-- 
Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs!


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[CGUYS] wireless - no WEP or WPA / no VPN / SSL

[Fred Jones]

I asked a question here a while back about wireless connections and 
encryption and got some great feedback - many thanks guys! 

I am trying to advise my Dad about using his laptop while traveling, but I 
am still confused about using a wireless connection in situation where no 
encryption is available. 

Here is the scenario I am trying to understand: 

Traveling and using a wireless connection in a hotel 

Hotel does NOT provide WEP or WPA encryption 

No VPN is being used 

My Dad's webmail account thru network solutions has an option to use SSL for 
logging in to email. The tech told me that transmitting username and 
password is protected using SSL while logging in, but all else would be in 
the clear. 

Is the tech correct or will the username and password be able to be picked 
up in the clear since no encryption or VPN is being used? 

How can transmitting anything over a non-encrypted connection without using 
a VPN be protected even if using SSL to login to an account? 


Thanks again for all of your help!


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Re: [CGUYS] Windows apps off the desktop

[Tony B]

This way too vague a question for anyone to have any idea what you're
talking about. I'm going to take a guess and try rephrasing it for
you, dropping the obvious implication that two computers are involved:

"Whenever I try to run PaintShop v5.1, it seems to run (according to
the Task Manager and taskbar), but I can't see the window. It's a Dell
100 laptop running Windows Vista 32 bit Home Premium."

Notice how I gave maximum information about all the items involved?

Anyway, try this link for some clues:
http://www.google.com/search?q=window+opening+off+screen

Presumably, the ultimate solution is to make sure the app is updated,
and if it is, contact the author and let them know this is happening.


On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Joe  wrote:
> I'm trying to run an app on my laptop that won't appear on my desktop.  In 
> the past I resolved this by reducing then restoring my screen resolution, but 
> this time it didn't work.  Does anyone else know what I could do?


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Roger D. Parish]

At 2:32 AM -0600 2/21/09, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:


so that they get breed with the best steer semen for offspring.


Hmm, since a steer is, by definition, sterile, that would seem to be 
counter-productive. ;-)

--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Re: [CGUYS] wireless - no WEP or WPA / no VPN / SSL

[Tony B]

He should make sure the link he uses to mail is https: not just http: .
He should use strong passwords, and try to avoid _typing_ passwords.
He should ensure a firewall is in place and active (the built in
Windows firewall is fine if he's using anything after about WinXP
SP2).

That's all the average home user needs to worry about.

If he's got Vista, he should run as a normal user, and not just click
on every notice that pops up without understanding it.


On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Fred Jones  wrote:
> I asked a question here a while back about wireless connections and
> encryption and got some great feedback - many thanks guys!
> I am trying to advise my Dad about using his laptop while traveling, but I
> am still confused about using a wireless connection in situation where no
> encryption is available.
> Here is the scenario I am trying to understand:
> Traveling and using a wireless connection in a hotel
> Hotel does NOT provide WEP or WPA encryption
> No VPN is being used
> My Dad's webmail account thru network solutions has an option to use SSL for
> logging in to email. The tech told me that transmitting username and
> password is protected using SSL while logging in, but all else would be in
> the clear.
> Is the tech correct or will the username and password be able to be picked
> up in the clear since no encryption or VPN is being used?
> How can transmitting anything over a non-encrypted connection without using
> a VPN be protected even if using SSL to login to an account?
> Thanks again for all of your help!


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Re: [CGUYS] wireless - no WEP or WPA / no VPN / SSL

[Fred Jones]

So if the webmail link says https (it does, btw) then the username and 
password login information *is* automatically protected even on a 
non-encrypted connection? 



Thanks again! 



From:   Tony B 
To:  COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Date:  Saturday, February 21, 2009 08:52 am
Subject:  Re: [CGUYS] wireless - no WEP or WPA / no VPN / SSL 


He should make sure the link he uses to mail is https: not just http: .
He should use strong passwords, and try to avoid _typing_ passwords.
He should ensure a firewall is in place and active (the built in
Windows firewall is fine if he's using anything after about WinXP
SP2). 

That's all the average home user needs to worry about. 


If he's got Vista, he should run as a normal user, and not just click
on every notice that pops up without understanding it. 





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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Eric S. Sande]

Impressive, but it literally bounces off the larger car in this one.


You mean you actually have metal around you when you drive
in traffic?

Try riding a bicycle.  Oh, it would be a good idea to take a few
courses first.  I'd recommend these:

http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/courses.php

You can even put a (simple) computer on the bicycle to let
you know how slow you are going.

In five or so years you may be good enough for downtown
DC in rush hour.  The consequences of failure at this are 
extreme.


http://www.esande.net/features/commute.html

No airbags, no crumple zones.  It is all ass, attention and 
attitude.  That is what the free market is supposed to be. I

take a calculated risk and I get a return.

If I calculate wrong I'm screwed, if I prepare insufficiently
I'm screwed, if I execute wrong I'm screwed.  Only if I do
it all right and on time am I rewarded.

That is basic, and that is where the automobile manufacturers
failed.  They had the assets, the skilled American work force,
and the technology.  But they failed to calculate, prepare, and
execute.

I can't believe that business school graduates could execute
worse than a bicycle commuter.


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[John Duncan Yoyo]

Here is the Techdirt version of this.  <
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090220/0948573843.shtml>

-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] wireless - no WEP or WPA / no VPN / SSL

[Jeff Wright]

> So if the webmail link says https (it does, btw) then the username and
> password login information *is* automatically protected even on a
> non-encrypted connection?

Yes, assuming that the SSL cert is configured correctly on the back end and
your browser supports the level of encryption being used (any recent browser
should).  No different than on a wired network.


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[Jeff Wright]

> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341476,00.asp
> 
> I'll set a link to the story from a less...political leaning site.
> 
> Most people can't keep their family photos without help...not sure how
> they
> will mandate keeping this kind of data.  Perhaps if they come up with a
> good
> plan it can be shot down, then used by noobs to save the data they want
> to
> save for themselves.

The GOP wants to make sure that they don't lose the "Stupid Party" tag to
the Dems; god knows it's not from a lack of effort on either side these
days.  

It's just their version of copyright protection.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jordan]

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

This is a better video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

The Hummer was originally designed for the Military and off road use.  
It has a wider track and was not really designed for civilian use on 
the highway.  (In other words, it was not made to be a hauler of 
things, but a mover of people.)  It also has a number of 
configurations it can be used as (Ambulance, pickup, High Pickup, 
stake truck, people hauler etc.)
As far as I know, for many years the "Hummers" sold to the public are 
just Chevy Tahoes with an extra heavy, super unaerodynamic body. I've 
actually read that the #1 complaint from Hummer owners iscan you 
guess?

Poor gas mileage!
DUH?


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Re: [CGUYS] wireless - no WEP or WPA / no VPN / SSL

[Michael Fernando]

> > So if the webmail link says https (it does, btw) then the
> > username and password login information *is* automatically
> > protected even on a non-encrypted connection?

SSL (https, closed-padlock icon at the bottom of the page) _is_ an
encrypted connection from your browser to that site you are
accessing.  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security
for technical details on how it works.]  If the browser throws
up warnings about the certs, don't ignore them.


> Again, a much bigger danger is if he uses simple passwords and *types*

Are you saying that typing the password is a danger because
(a) someone may see you type it hunt-and-peck style or (b) there
could be key loggers that can grab the pw?

If it is (a), then learn to touch-type and make sure no one
is watching when you type passwords.

The case of (b) is certainly an issue when you use someone else's
computer (ie: internet cafes, kiosks, etc.).  But, if you think
your own computer has key loggers, then all bets are off.  Someone
was able to install that key logger without your knowledge and
that means he certainly owns your machine.


> Someone finding out his email login information is not much of a
> threat at all.

I'm not sure it isn't a "threat at all."  It can be.  When you sign
up for various online services (banking, video rentals with your CC
on file, etc.) one of the options for recovering a forgotten pw is
having it e-mailed to you.  If a bad guy has access to your e-mail
account, he can request a pw, then delete that e-mail before you see
it.  Yeah, one can get paranoid about these things, but making
sure your e-mail account is secure is important, I think.  Of
course, you can use a throw away yahoo/gmail account when traveling.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I only served farmers, not was one.  :-)

You are right it is Bull semen.  Steers are neutered very early in life.

By the way farmers only kept steers around for food purposes.  (Steaks)

Some of my folks had bulls but they were Beef variety and they would 
interbreed a heifer for the first time to see what her 
characteristics were, and then sell off the offspring from that for 
food purposes.


It seems we always had plenty of hamburger and occasionally a freezer 
full of steaks/burger and liver!


I would venture to say that farmers tend to be more green than their 
city counterparts.


Stewart


At 09:43 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:

At 2:32 AM -0600 2/21/09, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:


so that they get breed with the best steer semen for offspring.


Hmm, since a steer is, by definition, sterile, that would seem to be 
counter-productive. ;-)

--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

There are three flavors of Hummers out there.

Hummer
Hummer 2
Hummer 3

The original Hummer was manufactured by AM General which was a 
division of AMC/Jeep. Through marketing arrangements and such they 
allowed GM to sell the civilianized version of the Hummer (which I 
believe had a diesel in it)


It also allowed GM to manufacture and produce the variations called 
Hummer 2 and Hummer 3 (I think) which were based on civilian frames 
etc.  (The Tahoe) Some were manufactured where I grew up in 
Shreveport LA GM Plant which made the S-10/Canyon (Hummer 3).


The terminator was one of the first to popularize the original Hummer 
during Desert Storm.


If you have ever driven one, (I have) they are big honking vehicles 
and not all that comfortable.  I am sure they spruced it up for the 
civilian market, but I would not be interested.  It was made for off 
road use (I have had it in the woods and it is great there, can do 
almost a vertical climb.) as I said has a wide track and sits very 
high. But it is not economical.


Read the wikipedia article and then look at the GM site and the AM 
General site for more info.


The Hummer was always a rich boys toy, and may I add owning one was a 
statement of masculinity (Sorry Terminator.)


Stewart


At 12:24 PM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
As far as I know, for many years the "Hummers" sold to the public 
are just Chevy Tahoes with an extra heavy, super unaerodynamic body. 
I've actually read that the #1 complaint from Hummer owners 
iscan you guess?

Poor gas mileage!
DUH?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[rleesimon]

gonna be a lotta crashed hdds on a weekly basis... wanna make some money?
create an app that crashes your disk on a preset schedule and does an
automatic format and reinstall of windows after a good wipe out !!
...wowweee, we're rich !!

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Wright [mailto:jswri...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet
Access Logs


> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341476,00.asp
> 
> I'll set a link to the story from a less...political leaning site.
> 
> Most people can't keep their family photos without help...not sure how 
> they will mandate keeping this kind of data.  Perhaps if they come up 
> with a good
> plan it can be shot down, then used by noobs to save the data they want
> to
> save for themselves.

The GOP wants to make sure that they don't lose the "Stupid Party" tag to
the Dems; god knows it's not from a lack of effort on either side these
days.  

It's just their version of copyright protection.


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[CGUYS] Close OS X applications automatically before scheduled backup?

[db]

To successfully perform automatically scheduled backups, frequently you 
need to close OS X applications first so their data files are not locked.


Can anyone recommend an OS X utility or procedure that I can use for 
scheduling the automatic closing of such applications on a Tiger G5 in 
advance of the scheduled backups?


db


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jordan]

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:


It also allowed GM to manufacture and produce the variations called 
Hummer 2 and Hummer 3 (I think) which were based on civilian frames 
etc.  (The Tahoe) Some were manufactured where I grew up in Shreveport 
LA GM Plant which made the S-10/Canyon (Hummer 3).


The terminator was one of the first to popularize the original Hummer 
during Desert Storm.


If you have ever driven one, (I have) they are big honking vehicles 
and not all that comfortable.  I am sure they spruced it up for the 
civilian market, but I would not be interested.  It was made for off 
road use (I have had it in the woods and it is great there, can do 
almost a vertical climb.) as I said has a wide track and sits very 
high. But it is not economical.


Read the wikipedia article and then look at the GM site and the AM 
General site for more info.
I've been reading quality car magazines (Car and Driver, Road and Track) 
for 35 years and they've had several test drives of the various Hummers. 
Definitely not very desirable or practical vehicles.


The Hummer was always a rich boys toy, and may I add owning one was a 
statement of masculinity (Sorry Terminator.)
On the contrary, they are probably a good indicator of impotence, not to 
mention ignorance.



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Wont argue want to spend some money buy a Porsche or a Mercedes. :-)

Stewart


At 04:34 PM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
The Hummer was always a rich boys toy, and may I add owning one was 
a statement of masculinity (Sorry Terminator.)
On the contrary, they are probably a good indicator of impotence, 
not to mention ignorance.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Eric S. Sande]

Wont argue want to spend some money buy a Porsche or a Mercedes. >:-)


Well. I don't want to appear greedy but I'll take what I can get.

I'm a rich man, I have five bicycles and all of them work.




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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[betty]

This is a better video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s


I like these better:

Hummer vs. Smart  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkjZtfgqC2w
Banned TV ad  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oph4fcJmPBk

The safety test results for cars sold in the EU are on the European New Car Assessment 
Programme site, http://www.euroncap.com/. The ratings are based on procedures explained 
here, http://www.euroncap.com/testprocedures.aspx.



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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[betty]

Was the Fifth Amendment repealed by one of those midnight regulations in 
December?

It's all a big distraction from the economic mess we have. Instead of trying to create 
jobs, provide the regulation that has been lacking on Wall Street and elsewhere, protect 
the environment without hurting businesses, balancing the budget and paying down the 
national debt, we get a bill requiring us to spy on ourselves. Don't they have important 
work to do? HAHAHAHA


What a waste of time.

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Betty it is the old magicians ruse.

Keep everyone looking this way while you perform your slight of hand elsewhere.

Stewart


At 07:48 PM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
Was the Fifth Amendment repealed by one of those midnight 
regulations in December?


It's all a big distraction from the economic mess we have. Instead 
of trying to create jobs, provide the regulation that has been 
lacking on Wall Street and elsewhere, protect the environment 
without hurting businesses, balancing the budget and paying down the 
national debt, we get a bill requiring us to spy on ourselves. Don't 
they have important work to do? HAHAHAHA


What a waste of time.

Betty


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Republican Bill Would Require Home Owners To Retain Internet Access Logs

[Eric S. Sande]

What a waste of time.


I'd be proud to call myself a Republican if it warn't fer them snakes.

:-)


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