Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Alvin Auerbach wrote: ...from what I could tell. As individuals, our car yarns are anecdotes. When Consumer Reports (CR) collects all of those anecdotes, they become statistics. CR has auto test engineers who test the cars in CR's own lab and on CR's own test track. No individual can do all of that. No individual can make the sound judgement of quality and performance and reliability that CR can, using their own tests and the data gathered from their readers; and data from government and insurance industry tests. I agree. But I still take some of their ratings of products with a grain of salt. I like the Mac, but it took CR a long time to say much of anything good about Apple computers. I would not but any car that is not a station wagon. I also have never considered buying an SUV. That eliminates 95% of car models, and until recently pretty much all American cars. So I'd have to fish through a lot of their ratings to find anything to buy. I don't think CR is much effected by public opinion, but they do rate and talk about products for the mainstream public. I think they take the perspective of the mainstream public. I'm not much a mainstream guy, so again 95% of what they talk about and rate, I would never buy. I think the info CR provides is an excellent tool. You just have to use it an a way that makes it work for you. After years of subscribing to CR I finally stopped the magazine and now I just pay a small yearly fee for access to their testing and ratings on line. Jordan * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
David K Watson One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more. Where do you get your figures? I looked on amazon, and the Wii had better customer satisfaction ratings there than any of the Xbox models. That also seems to be the general understanding on the tech sites I visit. Aren't the Xbox's legendary for the red ring of death? -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly The darn thing works better if you plug it in * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Aren't the Xbox's legendary for the red ring of death? There was some discussion of this. The main cause for the legendary RRODs was a bad custom IC that is no longer used. Some members here presented anecdotal evidence that there are still problems, but others (including me) had contrary anecdotal evidence. I couldn't find any press etc. indicating that it's still much of an issue. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I think the answer to this one is similar to one I have seen for decades. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) Consumer Reports would always knock and rate US produced Autos all the time. The only auto with high quality was made in Japan or Germany. For years now that mistaken notion has been disproven. But CR (from the last time I read it) still follows that logic. We have even seen that ugly rumor pushed on this list by everyone with respect of OS's. For me one thing might work much better than someone else. We are all unique and individuals. However tehre is always some thing (Like a Yugo or Coby) that will be panned by all. I am not sure how old my S-I-L Xbox was when it failed but I do know it failed. But down here our power system is pretty notorious for not having good clean electricity and that is one area that still will mess up anything electronic. Stewart at 12:54 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote: There was some discussion of this. The main cause for the legendary RRODs was a bad custom IC that is no longer used. Some members here presented anecdotal evidence that there are still problems, but others (including me) had contrary anecdotal evidence. I couldn't find any press etc. indicating that it's still much of an issue. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Please tell me where you have read that American autos are high quality. Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I think the answer to this one is similar to one I have seen for decades. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) Consumer Reports would always knock and rate US produced Autos all the time. The only auto with high quality was made in Japan or Germany. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I need to inject here. I have read some good things about American autos in places like Road Track and etc. type magazines. However I take these with a grain of salt over my personal experiences. I've owned quite a few cars over my 47 years on the planet. Some of the best ones have been American made. Some of the worst have also been American made. And the same goes for the foreign autos I've owned. I think, especially when it comes to vehicles, quality highly depends on what the user is looking for. An example would be one of my last cars. It was a Mercury Cougar, 1990 model. I got rid of it in 2007. It was a fantastic car! Comfortable as could be, even at high speeds, which it accomplished very quickly and easily. On top of that it got 25 mpg average. I replaced it when it got to the point the seals needed to be replaced. I've never had good luck with cars after this procedure. It got replaced by a 2006 Chevy Impala. So far, no complaints. By the way, I chose the Impala over the Chrysler Sebring(sp). The Chrysler, at highway speeds, was noisy as hell in the back seats. The Impala, little noise and felt more like a limo at highway speeds. I stayed away from foreign models due to cost for the size I was looking for. Sure you can get a high quality full size foreign car, but they cost twice as much, and the quality seems just about the same from what I could tell. Jeff M On Apr 5, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Jordan wrote: Please tell me where you have read that American autos are high quality. Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I think the answer to this one is similar to one I have seen for decades. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) Consumer Reports would always knock and rate US produced Autos all the time. The only auto with high quality was made in Japan or Germany. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * The friend is the man who knows all about you, and still likes you. - Elbert Hubbard * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
They have been putting out some very good automobiles. They rate very highly in customer satisfaction survey's. Plus I have owned a few (YMMV) and have not had problems with them. Stewart At 04:09 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote: Please tell me where you have read that American autos are high quality. Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I think the answer to this one is similar to one I have seen for decades. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) Consumer Reports would always knock and rate US produced Autos all the time. The only auto with high quality was made in Japan or Germany. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
...from what I could tell. As individuals, our car yarns are anecdotes. When Consumer Reports (CR) collects all of those anecdotes, they become statistics. CR has auto test engineers who test the cars in CR's own lab and on CR's own test track. No individual can do all of that. No individual can make the sound judgement of quality and performance and reliability that CR can, using their own tests and the data gathered from their readers; and data from government and insurance industry tests. Of course, this is all done by people, and occasionally, people make mistakes. Of course, the public has their own preferences and value judgments, but using your own criteria you can make a sound choice from the data on the cars listed by CR; both new and used. Additionally, CR anonymously purchases their cars from dealers, using ordinary folks who buy the cars in their own names. AFAIK, the auto magazines borrow cars from the manufacturers. All of the money that comes to CR, comes from their readers. AFAIK, most of the money that comes to the auto magazines, comes from their advertisers. There is apt to be very much less bias from CR than from the auto magazines. IMO, from the purchase to the publication, no one informs the public about cars as well as does Consumer Reports. Alvin On Apr 5, 2009, at 6:01 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: I stayed away from foreign models due to cost for the size I was looking for. Sure you can get a high quality full size foreign car, but they cost twice as much, and the quality seems just about the same from what I could tell. Jeff M * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Do you only buy products CR recommends? Do you own anything they have given a poor rating to only to have the opposite experience? I have heard anecdotes about CR not being so unbiased. Or course those are only anecdotes. I take CR with a grain of salt. From what I've seen (just my personal opinion) they seem to give higher marks to items that are selling very well, regardless of quality. In spite of all their testing, public perception seems to bleed it's way in to their ratings. But as I said, this is my one person's personal opinion. Jeff M On Apr 5, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Alvin Auerbach wrote: ...from what I could tell. As individuals, our car yarns are anecdotes. When Consumer Reports (CR) collects all of those anecdotes, they become statistics. CR has auto test engineers who test the cars in CR's own lab and on CR's own test track. No individual can do all of that. No individual can make the sound judgement of quality and performance and reliability that CR can, using their own tests and the data gathered from their readers; and data from government and insurance industry tests. Of course, this is all done by people, and occasionally, people make mistakes. Of course, the public has their own preferences and value judgments, but using your own criteria you can make a sound choice from the data on the cars listed by CR; both new and used. Additionally, CR anonymously purchases their cars from dealers, using ordinary folks who buy the cars in their own names. AFAIK, the auto magazines borrow cars from the manufacturers. All of the money that comes to CR, comes from their readers. AFAIK, most of the money that comes to the auto magazines, comes from their advertisers. There is apt to be very much less bias from CR than from the auto magazines. IMO, from the purchase to the publication, no one informs the public about cars as well as does Consumer Reports. Alvin On Apr 5, 2009, at 6:01 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: I stayed away from foreign models due to cost for the size I was looking for. Sure you can get a high quality full size foreign car, but they cost twice as much, and the quality seems just about the same from what I could tell. Jeff M * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * The friend is the man who knows all about you, and still likes you. - Elbert Hubbard * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Yes and no. They have a bias that can be seen pretty easily. (Ask Tom about their reviews and recommendations on Computers) They will gather all the data, and then when it comes to the American Automobiles they rate them lower based on their bias than a comparable foreign auto. (I used to subscribe and read it.) When it comes to appliances it tends to be much more even (There is not a lot of foreign competition on this one.) I support them and still go to them when it comes time to buy appliances etc. I just take their auto reviews with a grain of salt. Stewart At 05:46 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote: ...from what I could tell. As individuals, our car yarns are anecdotes. When Consumer Reports (CR) collects all of those anecdotes, they become statistics. CR has auto test engineers who test the cars in CR's own lab and on CR's own test track. No individual can do all of that. No individual can make the sound judgement of quality and performance and reliability that CR can, using their own tests and the data gathered from their readers; and data from government and insurance industry tests. Of course, this is all done by people, and occasionally, people make mistakes. Of course, the public has their own preferences and value judgments, but using your own criteria you can make a sound choice from the data on the cars listed by CR; both new and used. Additionally, CR anonymously purchases their cars from dealers, using ordinary folks who buy the cars in their own names. AFAIK, the auto magazines borrow cars from the manufacturers. All of the money that comes to CR, comes from their readers. AFAIK, most of the money that comes to the auto magazines, comes from their advertisers. There is apt to be very much less bias from CR than from the auto magazines. IMO, from the purchase to the publication, no one informs the public about cars as well as does Consumer Reports. Alvin Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
MS certainly has. Most obviously, they neglected InternetExplorer for years and are now playing catch up. Waiting years for Vista and then getting a flop is another. They are behind in cloud computing. Their search engine is a very distant third so they are really back in the pack with many little companies. I think much of their enterprise software is substandard. They make some nice mice, but they are not top drawer. XBox lost out to Wii. The Zune is a zune. Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its category? I can't think of anything. I thought they were an unstoppable juggernaut? Oh, you have 2 opinions that conflict with one another. Am I surprised? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more. Where do you get your figures? I looked on amazon, and the Wii had better customer satisfaction ratings there than any of the Xbox models. That also seems to be the general understanding on the tech sites I visit. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more. Where do you get your figures? I looked on amazon, and the Wii had better customer satisfaction ratings there than any of the Xbox models. That also seems to be the general understanding on the tech sites I visit. I can't remember where I saw it; it was a while ago. However, it was a poll (a real one, not a web site poll) rather than customer-submitted feedback, so I would tend to trust it more. In any event, there's no question on the specs and not much of one about the reviews. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
WII seems to be outselling any of the gamer type machines right now, but I think that is because your non typical buyer is standing in line to buy it. (read over 50 years old) Incidentally, no one cares about those of us who are over 50, so sales to we nearly-dead don't count. We aren't in anyone's target demographic. Even though we have all the money. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Comparing the Xbox with the WII is not a fair comparison. They serve different purposes and really are aimed at two different groups. I think it's just as fair as comparing an iMac to an HP laptop, don't you? :) Anyway, it was Tom who made the initial comparison. I was just pointing out that his conclusion conflicts with his verdict in the case of PC v. Mac. In the case of computers, quality is what's important (so MS loses). In the case of games, it's sales that are important (so MS loses). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Well I don't know about all the money plus I am not yet an empty nester. But yeah you are right, no one seems to market to us except AARP! Stewart At 02:48 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote: WII seems to be outselling any of the gamer type machines right now, but I think that is because your non typical buyer is standing in line to buy it. (read over 50 years old) Incidentally, no one cares about those of us who are over 50, so sales to we nearly-dead don't count. We aren't in anyone's target demographic. Even though we have all the money. :) Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
But yeah you are right, no one seems to market to us except AARP! Right, I forgot about them. AARP and the wheelie chair guys, Hoveround. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Uhhh...aren't we the target audience for Cialis and Viagra, Embril, Enablex, etc., ad nauseam! lol Donna In a message dated 4/1/2009 7:26:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, popoz...@earthlink.net writes: That's about right. Enjoy your golden years! Stewart At 06:00 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote: But yeah you are right, no one seems to market to us except AARP! Right, I forgot about them. AARP and the wheelie chair guys, Hoveround. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 **New Low Prices on Dell Laptops – Starting at $399 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631247x1201390185/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540506%3B35046329%3Bx) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Some of those I do not use the others I cannot afford. Stewart At 07:26 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote: Uhhh...aren't we the target audience for Cialis and Viagra, Embril, Enablex, etc., ad nauseam! lol Donna Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Xbox lost out to Wii. Well, now this is a really interesting conclusion. We (wii?) have both, and there is no comparison. Except for the wiimotes, which really are pretty cool, Xbox is superior in *every* respect. As in blows it away. Side-by-side with the Xbox's HD graphics, the Wii looks like a Commodore 64. The gameplay is smoother and more responsive, and there's no comparison in the sound. This is not me, certified MS lapdog, speaking; it's my kids, who could care less about who made the boxes. The Wii sits untouched. I don't even know if it still works; nobody cares. You certainly can't be talking about features/specs, because, if you were, I'd have to assume that you have no idea WTF you're talking about. Full details at http://tinyurl.com/23okra, but here are a few goodies (and believe me, this is just the tip of the iceberg): Xbox Wii --- CPU 3.2 GHz PowerPC w/3 729MHz IBM Broadway dual-threaded cores Clock500Mhz 243Mhz System RAM 512MB64MB Video RAM512MB24MB Best video res 1080p480p Video bandwidth 21.6 GB/sec 3.9 GB/sec HDMI Yep Nope (obviously) Storage Up to 120GB HD 512MB flash Digital audioDolby 5.1Nope Plays DVDs Yep Nope Well, you get the idea. So, the only way you could *possibly* say that Xbox lost out to Wii is in terms of sales. Wii does sell more. Of course, it is cheaper. So, let's summarize. Two companies produce machines with the same basic function. One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more. Which machine does Tom think is the winner? Hey, it's the one that sells more! Hmmm. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
