[Cooker] Graphical Installer Needs ---
Graphical Installer Needs --- Cut and Paste support, would be very handy in the network configuration utility. and In add user the ability to use uppercase characters when creating users, once installed userdrake allows capatalized user names. It would be nice to be able to add the same user during this portion of the install.
Re: [Cooker] Graphical Installer Needs ---
Brent Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Graphical Installer Needs --- Cut and Paste support, would be very handy in the network configuration utility. X cut'n'paste should work. Just select and paste with middle button? In add user the ability to use uppercase characters when creating users, once installed userdrake allows capatalized user names. It would be nice to be able to add the same user during this portion of the install. If someone can find out what's allowed or not, please tell.
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard. I assume that the inference is that, at some point, a text install will no longer be available. i know that keeping 2 different kinds of installs is hard. however: i would like to stress on the importance of a text-based installer. personally, it means less bloat and now that a i486 distro is available it means i can still install it without the bloat of X. even on a i686 i will choose text-mode. anyways, chances are that if you are using a text-based install (i will definitely choose this one) you're experienced, so if there's a bug, you know how to fix, it can be "less maintained" than the GUI install (yuck) Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
"Hoyt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: "Pixel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Armisis Aieoln [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard. I assume that the inference is that, at some point, a text install will no longer be available. text install *is* available, share DrakX's code.
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
- Original Message - From: "Pixel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] keeping 2 different installs is hard. I assume that the inference is that, at some point, a text install will no longer be available. text install *is* available, share DrakX's code. So you will drop the RedHat text install, but provide a text install from the DrakX code? Nice idea. Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
"Hoyt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: "Alexander V. Voinov" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Hi Don Head wrote: There is. =) But it doesn't allow all the things, which are available in GUI. I still didn't find a way to select packages in the text mode. My attempt at a 7.0 text install to system with a drive full of FAT partitions (intending to replace them with ext2 partitions) kept crashing with a "partitions full" message without allowing me to access fdisk or disk what did you do exactly?
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
"Hoyt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I assume that the inference is that, at some point, a text install will no longer be available. text install *is* available, share DrakX's code. So you will drop the RedHat text install, but provide a text install from the DrakX code? Nice idea. it's already provided since 7.0 just type "text" at syslinux install prompt
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Add my vote to keep a text-based installer around. While most of the machines that I've used could handle a graphical install, a fair number did not. If I couldn't use a text-based installer, I'd be up the creek. --- On Fri, 02 Jun 2000, you wrote: text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard. I assume that the inference is that, at some point, a text install will no longer be available. i know that keeping 2 different kinds of installs is hard. however: i would like to stress on the importance of a text-based installer. personally, it means less bloat and now that a i486 distro is available it means i can still install it without the bloat of X. even on a i686 i will choose text-mode. anyways, chances are that if you are using a text-based install (i will definitely choose this one) you're experienced, so if there's a bug, you know how to fix, it can be "less maintained" than the GUI install (yuck) Hoyt -- Jonathan M. Prigot (617-278-0794) Brigham and Women's Hospital 900 Commonwealth Avenue, East Boston, MA 02215-1213
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Pixel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Armisis Aieoln [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard. AFAIK it is available Pixel no? "text" option at boot prompt? -- Guillaume Cottenceau
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
have any of you guys pressed "F1" for the help menu? There are all the typical boot options text expert blah blah don't worry about it, its there. Riyad Kalla Java Programmer Game Enthusiast -Original Message- From: Guillaume Cottenceau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 2:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Pixel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Armisis Aieoln [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard. AFAIK it is available Pixel no? "text" option at boot prompt? -- Guillaume Cottenceau
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
"Riyad Kalla" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: have any of you guys pressed "F1" for the help menu? There are all the typical boot options text expert blah blah non documented one: (taken from syslinux.conf, not hard to find :) vgalo vgahi vga16 patch auto PS: "auto" won't work unless you put some kind of auto_inst.cfg.pl in Mandrake/base
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Armisis Aieoln [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard.
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Hi Don Head wrote: There is. =) But it doesn't allow all the things, which are available in GUI. I still didn't find a way to select packages in the text mode. Alexander Don Head Linux Mentor 1 800 826-4640 x1942 1 314 692-1942 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave] -Original Message- From: Armisis Aieoln [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:26 PM To: "'Guillaume@Cottenceau'"@mandrakesoft.mandrakesoft.com; Don Head; 'Guillaume Cottenceau'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? thanx dave On Tue, 30 May 2000, Don Head wrote: Sorry I took so long to get back to you.. One thing I do like, which Red Hat as been doing for a while, is allowing the selection and deselection of package groups. I can do a custom Red Hat 6.2 install, select "Web Server, FTP Server, SMB Server, NFS Server, Development, and Utilities", change one or two individual packages, and do the install, getting exactly what I'm looking for. I know then that I'm not getting the Mars-NWE/Novell connectivity packages which I don't want even though this machine is a server, I'm not getting multimedia and X because this machine is a server, and I'm not getting the printing stuff because I don't have a printer. I also then know that I'm getting the development and utilities that I want, because this is a telnet/SSH server that I use a lot remotely, and I need those tools. Being able to add them to the install with a click of a mouse is excellent. I'm sorry, but we do have a Groups selection step..!? not the groups you would like to see maybe..?? I spoke too soon. I did an install this weekend and saw the groups. Excellent. But I would like to see them expanded upon, there seemed to be very little selection. Okay, so I change my request: I'd like to see more/better package groups. =) Don Head Linux Mentor Wave Technologies, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= LINUX - Why? Cause I dont do windows -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
I was unable to perform a text based install, as I reported in a bug about a week ago. I ended up using the graphical install. Up until this point, I have always used the text-based install (although, I think the last time I did that was Mdk 6.1, 7.0 I think I only installed once, and I used the GUI), and the option of selecting individual packages was right there in plain sight. It may be that you needed to do a Custom/Expert install (as I always do), but the option is (was) there. Don Head Linux Mentor Wave Technologies, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Alexander V. Voinov To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 6/1/00 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Hi Don Head wrote: There is. =) But it doesn't allow all the things, which are available in GUI. I still didn't find a way to select packages in the text mode. Alexander Don Head Linux Mentor 1 800 826-4640 x1942 1 314 692-1942 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave] -Original Message- From: Armisis Aieoln [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:26 PM To: "'Guillaume@Cottenceau'"@mandrakesoft.mandrakesoft.com; Don Head; 'Guillaume Cottenceau'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? thanx dave On Tue, 30 May 2000, Don Head wrote: Sorry I took so long to get back to you.. One thing I do like, which Red Hat as been doing for a while, is allowing the selection and deselection of package groups. I can do a custom Red Hat 6.2 install, select "Web Server, FTP Server, SMB Server, NFS Server, Development, and Utilities", change one or two individual packages, and do the install, getting exactly what I'm looking for. I know then that I'm not getting the Mars-NWE/Novell connectivity packages which I don't want even though this machine is a server, I'm not getting multimedia and X because this machine is a server, and I'm not getting the printing stuff because I don't have a printer. I also then know that I'm getting the development and utilities that I want, because this is a telnet/SSH server that I use a lot remotely, and I need those tools. Being able to add them to the install with a click of a mouse is excellent. I'm sorry, but we do have a Groups selection step..!? not the groups you would like to see maybe..?? I spoke too soon. I did an install this weekend and saw the groups. Excellent. But I would like to see them expanded upon, there seemed to be very little selection. Okay, so I change my request: I'd like to see more/better package groups. =) Don Head Linux Mentor Wave Technologies, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= LINUX - Why? Cause I dont do windows -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
- Original Message - From: "Pixel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Armisis Aieoln [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? keeping 2 different installs is hard. I assume that the inference is that, at some point, a text install will no longer be available. Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
- Original Message - From: "Alexander V. Voinov" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Hi Don Head wrote: There is. =) But it doesn't allow all the things, which are available in GUI. I still didn't find a way to select packages in the text mode. My attempt at a 7.0 text install to system with a drive full of FAT partitions (intending to replace them with ext2 partitions) kept crashing with a "partitions full" message without allowing me to access fdisk or disk druid. the machine is a server so it has a nominal (crappy 512k vga) graphics card (destined to run headless so why waste a good card?) so the GUI install is not a viable option. Is it? I am now circumventing the problem by using the new tomsrtbt to re-partition and re-format the drive prior to the install. Is this a bug? Or am I just not making the correct selections? Hoyt
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
On the topic of graphical installers, at boot shoudent there be an option weather or not to use the graphical installer or the old text style??? thanx dave On Tue, 30 May 2000, Don Head wrote: Sorry I took so long to get back to you.. One thing I do like, which Red Hat as been doing for a while, is allowing the selection and deselection of package groups. I can do a custom Red Hat 6.2 install, select "Web Server, FTP Server, SMB Server, NFS Server, Development, and Utilities", change one or two individual packages, and do the install, getting exactly what I'm looking for. I know then that I'm not getting the Mars-NWE/Novell connectivity packages which I don't want even though this machine is a server, I'm not getting multimedia and X because this machine is a server, and I'm not getting the printing stuff because I don't have a printer. I also then know that I'm getting the development and utilities that I want, because this is a telnet/SSH server that I use a lot remotely, and I need those tools. Being able to add them to the install with a click of a mouse is excellent. I'm sorry, but we do have a Groups selection step..!? not the groups you would like to see maybe..?? I spoke too soon. I did an install this weekend and saw the groups. Excellent. But I would like to see them expanded upon, there seemed to be very little selection. Okay, so I change my request: I'd like to see more/better package groups. =) Don Head Linux Mentor Wave Technologies, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= LINUX - Why? Cause I dont do windows -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Sorry I took so long to get back to you.. One thing I do like, which Red Hat as been doing for a while, is allowing the selection and deselection of package groups. I can do a custom Red Hat 6.2 install, select "Web Server, FTP Server, SMB Server, NFS Server, Development, and Utilities", change one or two individual packages, and do the install, getting exactly what I'm looking for. I know then that I'm not getting the Mars-NWE/Novell connectivity packages which I don't want even though this machine is a server, I'm not getting multimedia and X because this machine is a server, and I'm not getting the printing stuff because I don't have a printer. I also then know that I'm getting the development and utilities that I want, because this is a telnet/SSH server that I use a lot remotely, and I need those tools. Being able to add them to the install with a click of a mouse is excellent. I'm sorry, but we do have a Groups selection step..!? not the groups you would like to see maybe..?? I spoke too soon. I did an install this weekend and saw the groups. Excellent. But I would like to see them expanded upon, there seemed to be very little selection. Okay, so I change my request: I'd like to see more/better package groups. =) Don Head Linux Mentor Wave Technologies, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave]
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Derek Wildstar wrote: On Thu, 25 May 2000, John Cavan wrote: Well now that input has been requested about improvements/additions... The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour scheme... ;o) I noticed this with 7.0 on several machines, but havn't experienced it on 7.1beta1 and higher...do you notice the same "disappearing" thing with 7.1 betas also? Same here. I didn't yet try very last betas though. Alexander
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
:~The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating :~tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, :~requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be This tree had a major rewrite for 7.1 :~a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour :~scheme... ;o) Actually, I would like to get some input on color scheme. I have a feeling that noone is really happy with it as it is, but noone offers anything better either. If you can put some examples of better collor schemes online (we cannot discuss colors withouth pictures), please do so. :~This will probably cause a flame war, but it may be better to take a :~slightly different approach to the package selection, more similar :~to the way Windows does it. Bear in mind that the Windows style does At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages: 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages. 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are interested in, and trust us that we know which packages go in which group step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the best of" if you move the slider to the left. 3) you want to choose the packages individually I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+ packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. cu Denis -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages: 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages. 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are interested in, and trust us that we know which packages go in which group step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the best of" if you move the slider to the left. 3) you want to choose the packages individually I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+ packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. i got an idea. the best way to do this, would be to have a couple of sets of "templates" for installation. e.g. "typical setup" "customs etup" "server setup" "workstation setup", etc, blah blah blah. after that, the user can choose the one that best matches his use of this installation, and be given the chance to modify that "template" of packages. e.g. "server" may have apache and wu-ftpd checked but the user only wants wu-ftpd, so the user should be allowed soemwhere to uncheck wu-ftpd. of course the full list of packages should still be given for better customization ... but they should be put into appropriate gruops, in a "one page per group (aka SuSE)" way, instead of the "tree view" like the RH 6 installer. cu, Geoff
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Derek Wildstar wrote: On Thu, 25 May 2000, John Cavan wrote: Well now that input has been requested about improvements/additions... The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour scheme... ;o) I noticed this with 7.0 on several machines, but havn't experienced it on 7.1beta1 and higher...do you notice the same "disappearing" thing with 7.1 betas also? I haven't tried the latest beta installs, I usually update the RPMs directly. If it's fixed, bonus. :o) John
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
I don't think that you want to remove the choice of selecting individual, optional packages. What I recommend though is that you remove all required packages from the list, which should trim the info back a bit. John Denis HAVLIK wrote: :~The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating :~tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, :~requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be This tree had a major rewrite for 7.1 :~a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour :~scheme... ;o) Actually, I would like to get some input on color scheme. I have a feeling that noone is really happy with it as it is, but noone offers anything better either. If you can put some examples of better collor schemes online (we cannot discuss colors withouth pictures), please do so. :~This will probably cause a flame war, but it may be better to take a :~slightly different approach to the package selection, more similar :~to the way Windows does it. Bear in mind that the Windows style does At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages: 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages. 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are interested in, and trust us that we know which packages go in which group step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the best of" if you move the slider to the left. 3) you want to choose the packages individually I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+ packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. cu Denis -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Hello, On Fri, 26 May 2000, John Cavan wrote: I don't think that you want to remove the choice of selecting individual, optional packages. Yes, the expert user likes to precisely select what he wants to install. What I recommend though is that you remove all required packages from the list, which should trim the info back a bit. I appreciated to see them in the list. I think it is good to let people know which packages will be installed whatever the user's choice. Perhaps make it an option to check ? "[x] hide required packages from the list" -- Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab "Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
"Alexander V. Voinov" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Derek Wildstar wrote: On Thu, 25 May 2000, John Cavan wrote: Well now that input has been requested about improvements/additions... The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour scheme... ;o) I noticed this with 7.0 on several machines, but havn't experienced it on 7.1beta1 and higher...do you notice the same "disappearing" thing with 7.1 betas also? Same here. I didn't yet try very last betas though. No, this has been fixed. However, on videocards like i810, the fbdev defaults to 640x480, where the problem re-appears. But if you get a nice purple-mandrake-style installer, this problem has definitely been fixed. -- Guillaume Cottenceau
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Submitted 26-May-00 by Denis HAVLIK: | At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages: | | 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages. | 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are |interested in, and trust us that we know which packages |go in which group |step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB | of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the | best of" if you move the slider to the left. | 3) you want to choose the packages individually | | I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+ | packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to | improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. The problem with 1 and 2 is the scoring system used. As an example, the vast majority of people do not have Palm Pilots, but the various pilot-linking apps are scored very highly. At the same time, a great number of libraries are scored as ``garbage''. If you don't do an expert install and select packages individually (a time consuming task) you frequently find need for something that wasn't installed and scratch your head in wonder at the things that were included. The scoring system needs to be built around utility (and obviously different for each class of install). Joe User on his desktop machine isn't likely to require inn or Zope. Dennis Developer probably has little use for fax software on his build box. When you trust somebody else to give you ``the best of'' you are dealing not only with the quality of the software involved, but the opinion of the person(s) who did the scoring. -- _ _|_|_ ( ) *Anton Graham /v\ / [EMAIL PROTECTED] /( )X (m_m) GPG ID: 18F78541 Penguin Powered!
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Anton Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Submitted 26-May-00 by Denis HAVLIK: | At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages: | | 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages. | 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are |interested in, and trust us that we know which packages |go in which group |step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB | of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the | best of" if you move the slider to the left. | 3) you want to choose the packages individually | | I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+ | packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to | improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. The problem with 1 and 2 is the scoring system used. As an example, the vast majority of people do not have Palm Pilots, but the various pilot-linking apps are scored very highly. At the same time, a great number of libraries are scored as ``garbage''. If you don't do an expert install and select packages individually (a time consuming task) you frequently find need for something that wasn't installed and scratch your head in wonder at the things that were included. The scoring system needs to be built around utility (and obviously different for each class of install). Joe User on his desktop machine isn't likely to require inn or Zope. Dennis Developer probably has little use for fax software on his build box. When you trust somebody else to give you ``the best of'' you are dealing not only with the quality of the software involved, but the opinion of the person(s) who did the scoring. Yes, but how to solve this ? The choices will never match anyone's needs. But, what we can do right now is to rework the coring system with the help of you cookers. We are waiting for your suggestions. -- Guillaume Cottenceau
RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer
One thing I do like, which Red Hat as been doing for a while, is allowing the selection and deselection of package groups. I can do a custom Red Hat 6.2 install, select "Web Server, FTP Server, SMB Server, NFS Server, Development, and Utilities", change one or two individual packages, and do the install, getting exactly what I'm looking for. I know then that I'm not getting the Mars-NWE/Novell connectivity packages which I don't want even though this machine is a server, I'm not getting multimedia and X because this machine is a server, and I'm not getting the printing stuff because I don't have a printer. I also then know that I'm getting the development and utilities that I want, because this is a telnet/SSH server that I use a lot remotely, and I need those tools. Being able to add them to the install with a click of a mouse is excellent. The package groups give you a lot of control over the installation, and can select and deselect entire categories of software for those that need to make machines with specific purposes in mind. I think this is one thing that Red Hat has over a number of other distributions. You're not stuck with their "Server, Workstation, or Custom" selection, and you're not stuck with a giant list of 1,000 packages to choose from. It's a good balance. And for those that like that, it's there, even an "Everything" selection, so that you can go through the list of 1,000 packages. For those anti-Red Hatters, I don't use Red Hat for my personal systems, or even my work systems. I do support Red Hat though, and started with them before I discovered Mandrake. They are a good distribution. I am a big Mandrake proponent, as anyone that knows me will admit. I guess that was a little more than 2 cents worth. Don Head Linux Mentor Wave Technologies, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935] [IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave] -Original Message- From: Guillaume Cottenceau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer Anton Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Submitted 26-May-00 by Denis HAVLIK: | At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages: | | 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages. | 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are |interested in, and trust us that we know which packages |go in which group |step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB | of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the | best of" if you move the slider to the left. | 3) you want to choose the packages individually | | I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+ | packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to | improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. The problem with 1 and 2 is the scoring system used. As an example, the vast majority of people do not have Palm Pilots, but the various pilot-linking apps are scored very highly. At the same time, a great number of libraries are scored as ``garbage''. If you don't do an expert install and select packages individually (a time consuming task) you frequently find need for something that wasn't installed and scratch your head in wonder at the things that were included. The scoring system needs to be built around utility (and obviously different for each class of install). Joe User on his desktop machine isn't likely to require inn or Zope. Dennis Developer probably has little use for fax software on his build box. When you trust somebody else to give you ``the best of'' you are dealing not only with the quality of the software involved, but the opinion of the person(s) who did the scoring. Yes, but how to solve this ? The choices will never match anyone's needs. But, what we can do right now is to rework the coring system with the help of you cookers. We are waiting for your suggestions. -- Guillaume Cottenceau
[Cooker] Graphical installer
Well now that input has been requested about improvements/additions... The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour scheme... ;o) This will probably cause a flame war, but it may be better to take a slightly different approach to the package selection, more similar to the way Windows does it. Bear in mind that the Windows style does two things: 1. Reduces clutter 2. Provides a "comfortable look" to people migrating to Linux Never underestimate the value of the new user's prior experiences in their evaluation of something new. It's not to say I want a Windows look (shudder), but installation experiences in Linux can be painful enough for the average newbie, why make it worse? John -- * Tell me and I may forget, Show me and I may remember, Involve me and I will understand. *
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
Hi, Here are my opinions ( modestly ). I am both a Linux and a Win98 user. Win98 -- Games like Dynamix StarSiege Tribbes -- For my TV card -- Office97 apps Linux -- To experience and learn Unix/Linux programming paradise. -- And try to get the F$#@$#@ XFree 4.0 to work!!! John Cavan wrote: This will probably cause a flame war, but it may be better to take a slightly different approach to the package selection, more similar to the way Windows does it. Bear in mind that the Windows style does two things: 1. Reduces clutter 2. Provides a "comfortable look" to people migrating to Linux Maybe but is there over 500-1000+ applications that comes with Windoz which you may select ? - NO ! Never underestimate the value of the new user's prior experiences in their evaluation of something new. It's not to say I want a Windows look (shudder), but installation experiences in Linux can be painful enough for the average newbie, why make it worse? Agree, But "experienced" new users are enough "experienced" to know that they have to READ the docs (book) before starting the installation of new stuff...( I hope :-). John ciao Serge Lussier
Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer
On Thu, 25 May 2000, John Cavan wrote: Well now that input has been requested about improvements/additions... The graphical installer is nice and all, but it has a very irritating tendency to have treeviews disappear when expanded or collapsed, requiring some scrolling to bring it visible again. Fixing this would be a huge blessing for installation. And don't get me started on the colour scheme... ;o) I noticed this with 7.0 on several machines, but havn't experienced it on 7.1beta1 and higher...do you notice the same "disappearing" thing with 7.1 betas also? I agree, the color changing could be made more obvious...those little buttons on the lower left aren't marked =) This will probably cause a flame war, but it may be better to take a slightly different approach to the package selection, more similar to the way Windows does it. Bear in mind that the Windows style does two things: 1. Reduces clutter 2. Provides a "comfortable look" to people migrating to Linux I agree here toowhat if the installation was setup with a 'gmc' type interface...people could select icons or text, and windows users would have a familiar "tree on the left, pictures on the right" interface by default. -dwild
