Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What about the Radeon 7500? Has it been fixed yet, or has someone even > looked at it? Is it worthwhile me spending the time to try a cooker > install on a machine? Knoppix works great on this machine, with DRI/GLX, > running at decent frame rates. Redhat 7.3 worked, so did 8.0, both with > DRI out the box. No Mandrake releases has worked on it without a > workaround (rm theatre_drv.o or add Option "crt_screen" or whatever to > XF86Config-4). the pb is that these things tend to change with XFree versions (and the ati driver used) :-( i'm ready to add workarounds, but i'd rather have a working XFree without this!
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pixel wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >>Case in point. I just installed 9.0 on my brand new Asus L2400D laptop. >>Problem is, even though the SIS 630 Video card is detected, the default (and >>all subsequent tested combinations) configuration is totaly unacceptable as >>the screen res is too low. There is an error when I try to go to a higher >>screen res/color depth so my only remaining option (in Mandrake) is to leave >>it at 800x600 and the lowest possible color depth which I can't recall off the >>top of my head. >>[...] >>Thinking this was unacceptable, I loaded up Knoppix (just to try a few >>theories I had) and copied the Xfree config files Knoppix had created to my >>hard drive. Once I rebooted into Mandrake, I renamed out the Mandrake config >>files as .orig and put in the Knoppix ones. I restarted X to find a gorgeous >>screen with great resolution and color depth. Now admittedly, this is at a >>default of 1024x768 but I'll take a functional default over every option (that >>doesn't work) in the book. > > > - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist a lot > of weird SiS630 working differently. No way to handle them really > nicely using the "sis" driver. > - Knoppix does a worse-is-better configuration on this, using the > "vesa" driver which is plain not acceptable for most users (no 2d > acceleration) > - I do agree that Knoppix did a real nice job with the auto-detection > & auto-configuration. I don't remember if I had a look at the hardware > database they're using. I'll do one day... > > => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad compared > to others ;p What about the Radeon 7500? Has it been fixed yet, or has someone even looked at it? Is it worthwhile me spending the time to try a cooker install on a machine? Knoppix works great on this machine, with DRI/GLX, running at decent frame rates. Redhat 7.3 worked, so did 8.0, both with DRI out the box. No Mandrake releases has worked on it without a workaround (rm theatre_drv.o or add Option "crt_screen" or whatever to XF86Config-4). OK, I also have a machine Knoppix fails on (my home machine, GeForce2MX), I think it just has the wrong refresh rate for my old 17" monitor. Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE99fIUrJK6UGDSBKcRAl2MAJ0UEP81YTFEcyAIpLVOpqJngxqtaACeJ+vB NZ5G8F+my0V+UzHo8aTVpts= =+6jf -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Monday 09 December 2002 22:34, Todd Lyons wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:52:28PM +1300 : > > You say that the way Mandrake handles it is better (ie. it uses the SIS > > driver, not a generic one), I beg to differ. My screen was barely > > visible with ANY of Mandrake's combo's...with Knoppix it is beautiful. I > > don't care which driver gets used, so long as it works!! Does > > acceleration matter if you can't see the screen first!!??? I would say > > the most important thing is to be able to see the screen!! > > For every user that feels that way, there is another user who knows just > enough about hardware to know that in Windows it has acceleration and > will badmouth $DISTRO because it doesn't do acceleration. It doesn't > matter that XFree86 is the one that does or does not have the support, > $DISTRO is the most convenient target. OK, looks at Xandros then, you can start up in default SVGA mode from a text mode menu. At least with this you would boot, see a black screen for a long time then power off, reboot, and get the nice text screen that at least lets you start in 800x600/1024x768 SVGA mode. ** The information contained in this message is confidential and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This message and any attachments have been scanned for viruses. Orbiscom Ltd. will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or as a result of any virus being passed on. www.Orbiscom.com **
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Tuesday 10 December 2002 00:10, Jason Greenwood wrote: > I agree, that's why during install, the client must be told what is > going on!! Then, THEY have the choice of going with driver that may/may Just want to state I wonder about the argument of no accelerated driver bother someone if the accelerated is so bad. There are other things to that went worser instead of better. The last release (8.2) had kudzu in it. There I had plugged in new hardware and it was recognized on boot. Now I had to MCC (no problem so far) and prompt run in a bug ( have used an ac97-audio and plugged in a Terratec DMXfire 1024 => it was recognized and I had the possibility to configure the card => it just had let me the possibility to configure the ac97-audio ). Thanks for your patience ;) just wanted to state some expirience frome here. Some wishes: joypads should become a draktool to configure, at least some generic. A place there I can post the lspci output + which driver I'm using or how I did I get it running, if there is a hardware what is shown as unknown ( my firewire card , I had just done some modprobes and was able to capture and to get it up as ethernet-device). Thanks Steffen -- counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
I agree, that's why during install, the client must be told what is going on!! Then, THEY have the choice of going with driver that may/may not work or going with a generic one that does. Besides, I think the badmouthing about a screen that is barely visible would be MUCH worse than the badmouthing about lack of acceleration. The client would think Mandrakes installer was just clueless and not bother to fix it while just going back to what "works" (ie Windwers). Notice I didn't say, "works well". It is a fact that Linux is not as homogenously supported by hardware manufacturers as Windows, however, it is the job of the install program to sort our which driver will provide the best end user experience, period. If the default driver will not provide a visible screen (by visible, I mean one the user can stand to look at for any length of time), then by george it better choose the generic bloody driver that does work!! My .0002c worth. I suggest you read this: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-12-07-004-26-IN-DB-SW&tbovrmode=1#talkback_area to get an idea of what people who will BUY your product think... If I understand you correctly, then you feel it is ok if the native driver ONLY provides for a (kind of) visible screen at 800x600 and a color depth of 8bpp SO LONG as it is accelerated?? I have to *cough* disagree and I would venture to say most (if not all) consumers of your product would agree. List, please correct me if I am wrong here. Regards, Jason Todd Lyons wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:52:28PM +1300 : You say that the way Mandrake handles it is better (ie. it uses the SIS driver, not a generic one), I beg to differ. My screen was barely visible with ANY of Mandrake's combo's...with Knoppix it is beautiful. I don't care which driver gets used, so long as it works!! Does acceleration matter if you can't see the screen first!!??? I would say the most important thing is to be able to see the screen!! For every user that feels that way, there is another user who knows just enough about hardware to know that in Windows it has acceleration and will badmouth $DISTRO because it doesn't do acceleration. It doesn't matter that XFree86 is the one that does or does not have the support, $DISTRO is the most convenient target. - -- | MandrakeSoft USA | Sometimes you get what you want. | | http://www.mandrakesoft.com | Sometimes you get experience.| | http://www.mandrakelinux.com |--unknown origin | Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.20-1mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE99RqOlp7v05cW2woRAoN5AJ9sZTdpMCTMfFSYFYYfDUKpYcooIwCgnbUm whRBLGG/bUtCEvfF0vQt8DM= =UucY -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:52:28PM +1300 : > > You say that the way Mandrake handles it is better (ie. it uses the SIS > driver, not a generic one), I beg to differ. My screen was barely > visible with ANY of Mandrake's combo's...with Knoppix it is beautiful. I > don't care which driver gets used, so long as it works!! Does > acceleration matter if you can't see the screen first!!??? I would say > the most important thing is to be able to see the screen!! For every user that feels that way, there is another user who knows just enough about hardware to know that in Windows it has acceleration and will badmouth $DISTRO because it doesn't do acceleration. It doesn't matter that XFree86 is the one that does or does not have the support, $DISTRO is the most convenient target. - -- | MandrakeSoft USA | Sometimes you get what you want. | | http://www.mandrakesoft.com | Sometimes you get experience.| | http://www.mandrakelinux.com |--unknown origin | Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.20-1mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE99RqOlp7v05cW2woRAoN5AJ9sZTdpMCTMfFSYFYYfDUKpYcooIwCgnbUm whRBLGG/bUtCEvfF0vQt8DM= =UucY -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 05:06, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: > On Sunday 08 December 2002 12:38, James Sparenberg wrote: > > On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 01:37, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: > > > I agree completely. What lacks sorely in XFree86, IMHO, is the fallback > > > mechanism - if this driver doesn't work, use another driver, and if > > > nothing works, use some worst case default ( 640x480 generic VGA driver > > > or VESA FB driver for videocard, autoprobe for mice). As in (cough) > > > Windows. Anyway, it is pretty hard these days to find EGA card or (cough) > > > CGA card. > > > > This is also a position that could help when say replacing a blown video > > card. Many is the time that once I got "something" working, and could > > then adjust from there, to get a nice product. For ex-windytes (windows > > users) the ability to limp into a visible mode and then properly adjust > > with MCC would be a really big help when changing hardware etc. > > Yes, and not only that. My wet dream for successful Linux desktop is XFree86 > not needing configuration file at all - i.e it should use one if it finds it, > but if it finds nothing, then it should be as follows : > - Video card is autoprobed, if the suitable driver found, it is used, or > generic VESA, or generic VGA. > - Mice are autoprobed, all mice found are used. > > And about mice : > Why should one re-run XFdrake anew or manually change XF86Config-4 if all he > does is just replace some PS/2 mouse with some new USB mouse? IMHO, mice > should be autoprobed. OTOH, if XF86Config-4 contains mouse definition, it > should be used, but if it is incorrect, it should be considered omitted, > warning should be issued, and mice should be autoprobed. I'm reminded here of something that happened real world. A friend said that the old computer her kids used (they where 4 and 5) to play some educational games stopped working, but only on the games. I grabbed my trusty Slack CD2 put it in booted from it and started booting to various modes. What I found was 800x600 mode would snow crash, but it worked fine in all others (the card was going bad.) Saved her a ton of money getting either a new box or having a shop repair it, and was a really fast way to diagnose the problem... Simple thing but it sure was nice to have something I didn't have to "think about" I could just run the tests straight up. All drivers auto detected all I had to do was startx choose mode 800x600 1024x768 whatever and if I had a screen ... it was good. Frame buffer is also nice when you don't have a clue as to what the video card is. (I've got a firewall like this I maintain for a friend.) The fact that Slack can go to a "generic" driver when all else fails saved another card/computer from the dump. Mice... YES it's been a long time (maybe around 6.2 or so) it seems since MDK didn't detect my mouse right during install should be able to check changes during boot or via command line no problem.. Heck if it detected my 3 button as a two button at least I'd have a mouse to run mouseconfig with to get it perfect. James
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Sunday 08 December 2002 12:38, James Sparenberg wrote: > On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 01:37, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: > > I agree completely. What lacks sorely in XFree86, IMHO, is the fallback > > mechanism - if this driver doesn't work, use another driver, and if > > nothing works, use some worst case default ( 640x480 generic VGA driver > > or VESA FB driver for videocard, autoprobe for mice). As in (cough) > > Windows. Anyway, it is pretty hard these days to find EGA card or (cough) > > CGA card. > > This is also a position that could help when say replacing a blown video > card. Many is the time that once I got "something" working, and could > then adjust from there, to get a nice product. For ex-windytes (windows > users) the ability to limp into a visible mode and then properly adjust > with MCC would be a really big help when changing hardware etc. Yes, and not only that. My wet dream for successful Linux desktop is XFree86 not needing configuration file at all - i.e it should use one if it finds it, but if it finds nothing, then it should be as follows : - Video card is autoprobed, if the suitable driver found, it is used, or generic VESA, or generic VGA. - Mice are autoprobed, all mice found are used. And about mice : Why should one re-run XFdrake anew or manually change XF86Config-4 if all he does is just replace some PS/2 mouse with some new USB mouse? IMHO, mice should be autoprobed. OTOH, if XF86Config-4 contains mouse definition, it should be used, but if it is incorrect, it should be considered omitted, warning should be issued, and mice should be autoprobed. -- Regards, Alex Chudnovsky e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ : 35559910
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 01:37, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: > On Sunday 08 December 2002 02:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Pixel, > > > > While I agree with you to a point, newbies won't care WHY Mandrake > > doesn't work with this card well and Knoppix does, only that it doesn't. > > You say that the way Mandrake handles it is better (ie. it uses the SIS > > driver, not a generic one), I beg to differ. My screen was barely > > visible with ANY of Mandrake's combo's...with Knoppix it is beautiful. I > > don't care which driver gets used, so long as it works!! Does > > acceleration matter if you can't see the screen first!!??? I would say > > the most important thing is to be able to see the screen!! > > I agree completely. What lacks sorely in XFree86, IMHO, is the fallback > mechanism - if this driver doesn't work, use another driver, and if nothing > works, use some worst case default ( 640x480 generic VGA driver or VESA FB > driver for videocard, autoprobe for mice). As in (cough) Windows. Anyway, it > is pretty hard these days to find EGA card or (cough) CGA card. This is also a position that could help when say replacing a blown video card. Many is the time that once I got "something" working, and could then adjust from there, to get a nice product. For ex-windytes (windows users) the ability to limp into a visible mode and then properly adjust with MCC would be a really big help when changing hardware etc.
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Sunday 08 December 2002 02:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Pixel, > > While I agree with you to a point, newbies won't care WHY Mandrake > doesn't work with this card well and Knoppix does, only that it doesn't. > You say that the way Mandrake handles it is better (ie. it uses the SIS > driver, not a generic one), I beg to differ. My screen was barely > visible with ANY of Mandrake's combo's...with Knoppix it is beautiful. I > don't care which driver gets used, so long as it works!! Does > acceleration matter if you can't see the screen first!!??? I would say > the most important thing is to be able to see the screen!! I agree completely. What lacks sorely in XFree86, IMHO, is the fallback mechanism - if this driver doesn't work, use another driver, and if nothing works, use some worst case default ( 640x480 generic VGA driver or VESA FB driver for videocard, autoprobe for mice). As in (cough) Windows. Anyway, it is pretty hard these days to find EGA card or (cough) CGA card. > > snip> > > > - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist a lot > > of weird SiS630 working differently. No way to handle them really > > nicely using the "sis" driver. > > Then don't use that driver!! It may have acceleration but you say > there's no way to make it work in all scenarios. Fine, use a driver that > (on a ratio basis) has a better success rate then!! Or let the user choose. Introduce the "Driver" option into XFdrake or drakxconf, let user know that such and such drivers exist for this particular card with such and such advantages and disadvantages. > > Don't compare yourself to "others" Compare yourself to the ones that > "beat" you in some cases. Your answer sounds like a head in the sand > approach to me. > > Knoppix does seem to work better on some configurations, can't Mandrake > learn from this, or is it better to take the moral high ground instead?? > I am not the only one who's had trouble...see the talkbacks at: > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-12-07-004-26-IN-DB-SW&tbovr >mode=1#talkback_area > > Cheers > > Jason > > Pixel wrote: > > - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist a lot > > of weird SiS630 working differently. No way to handle them really > > nicely using the "sis" driver. > > - Knoppix does a worse-is-better configuration on this, using the > > "vesa" driver which is plain not acceptable for most users (no 2d > > acceleration) > > - I do agree that Knoppix did a real nice job with the auto-detection > > & auto-configuration. I don't remember if I had a look at the hardware > > database they're using. I'll do one day... > > > > => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad compared > > to others ;p -- Regards, Alex Chudnovsky e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ : 35559910
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
Pixel, While I agree with you to a point, newbies won't care WHY Mandrake doesn't work with this card well and Knoppix does, only that it doesn't. You say that the way Mandrake handles it is better (ie. it uses the SIS driver, not a generic one), I beg to differ. My screen was barely visible with ANY of Mandrake's combo's...with Knoppix it is beautiful. I don't care which driver gets used, so long as it works!! Does acceleration matter if you can't see the screen first!!??? I would say the most important thing is to be able to see the screen!! snip> > - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist a lot > of weird SiS630 working differently. No way to handle them really > nicely using the "sis" driver. Then don't use that driver!! It may have acceleration but you say there's no way to make it work in all scenarios. Fine, use a driver that (on a ratio basis) has a better success rate then!! Don't compare yourself to "others" Compare yourself to the ones that "beat" you in some cases. Your answer sounds like a head in the sand approach to me. Knoppix does seem to work better on some configurations, can't Mandrake learn from this, or is it better to take the moral high ground instead?? I am not the only one who's had trouble...see the talkbacks at: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-12-07-004-26-IN-DB-SW&tbovrmode=1#talkback_area Cheers Jason Pixel wrote: - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist a lot of weird SiS630 working differently. No way to handle them really nicely using the "sis" driver. - Knoppix does a worse-is-better configuration on this, using the "vesa" driver which is plain not acceptable for most users (no 2d acceleration) - I do agree that Knoppix did a real nice job with the auto-detection & auto-configuration. I don't remember if I had a look at the hardware database they're using. I'll do one day... => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad compared to others ;p
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Yura Gusev wrote: > Pixel said: > > > > - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist > > a lot of weird SiS630 working differently. > > Sis never gave their specs to developers, they wont even give them to > other departments :-( > > => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad > > compared to others ;p > > I agree sofar it detected everything on every computer i installed it on, > maybe i can try to it on my Sun Ultra 1 eh? ;-) > Only nagging issue is the Radeon 7500s ... which is either DrakX not inserting 'Option "crt_screen"' (workaround?) or an XFree86 bug? Don't know which ,but this was brought up during betas, and is still catching people ... Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
Pixel said: > - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist > a lot of weird SiS630 working differently. Sis never gave their specs to developers, they wont even give them to other departments :-( > => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad > compared to others ;p I agree sofar it detected everything on every computer i installed it on, maybe i can try to it on my Sun Ultra 1 eh? ;-)
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
On Saturday 07 December 2002 10:47 pm, Pixel wrote: > => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad compared > to others ;p Yah, have to agree. Sometimes it quits too early and reaches for the framebuffer option, but in general it's good medicine. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Case in point. I just installed 9.0 on my brand new Asus L2400D laptop. > Problem is, even though the SIS 630 Video card is detected, the default (and > all subsequent tested combinations) configuration is totaly unacceptable as > the screen res is too low. There is an error when I try to go to a higher > screen res/color depth so my only remaining option (in Mandrake) is to leave > it at 800x600 and the lowest possible color depth which I can't recall off the > top of my head. > [...] > Thinking this was unacceptable, I loaded up Knoppix (just to try a few > theories I had) and copied the Xfree config files Knoppix had created to my > hard drive. Once I rebooted into Mandrake, I renamed out the Mandrake config > files as .orig and put in the Knoppix ones. I restarted X to find a gorgeous > screen with great resolution and color depth. Now admittedly, this is at a > default of 1024x768 but I'll take a functional default over every option (that > doesn't work) in the book. - SiS630 is quite badly handled by XFree86, and there do exist a lot of weird SiS630 working differently. No way to handle them really nicely using the "sis" driver. - Knoppix does a worse-is-better configuration on this, using the "vesa" driver which is plain not acceptable for most users (no 2d acceleration) - I do agree that Knoppix did a real nice job with the auto-detection & auto-configuration. I don't remember if I had a look at the hardware database they're using. I'll do one day... => I really don't think drakx auto-configuration of X is bad compared to others ;p
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
I have had email correspondence with him and he is an EXTREMELY nice guy. His work IS based on Debian. AFAIK, his work is all GPL'd so I'm sure Mandrake could dissect the source quite easily if they wanted to. IMHO, the work this guy could do might replace several current Mandrake developers. If so, I think Mandrake could convince him to move to France perhaps... ;) Maybe they could send pictures of some women from Paris... =) Robert Fox wrote: In a recent article, Klaus Knopper (the creator of Knoppix) was asked if he was approached by SuSE or Redhat regarding his work - he said NO but would welcome it . . . Maybe we can convince Klaus that contributing to Mandrake would be a good idea? Or at least the Mandrake staff could try Knoppix themselves and dissect what he did and maybe learn a thing or two . . . I believe his Knoppix CD is based on Debian . . . Cheers, R.Fox On Sat, 2002-12-07 at 03:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Cookers (and others), I write this solely out of a desire to see Mandrake become the BEST desktop Linux distro out there. I have only used Mandrake on my own systems and have been a Cooker for almost a year now. I am an active reader (and occasional participant) on this list. I have run across some situations which I hope will help the Mandrake team make the distro even better. I have personally had several scenarios where the Knoppix hardware detection and automatic default configuration were FAR superior to Mandrakes, which is sad as Knoppix has 1 lead developer and is not even aimed at being a full blown distro but only a live Linux Demo CD. Case in point. I just installed 9.0 on my brand new Asus L2400D laptop. Problem is, even though the SIS 630 Video card is detected, the default (and all subsequent tested combinations) configuration is totaly unacceptable as the screen res is too low. There is an error when I try to go to a higher screen res/color depth so my only remaining option (in Mandrake) is to leave it at 800x600 and the lowest possible color depth which I can't recall off the top of my head. I tried every combination available and many times, when I would try and test it, X would fall over to the point that I had to just reboot. I think that the test within MCC (if it doesn't work) should automagically return me to the configuration options if it times out instead. Plus, Mandrake (to my knowlege) has never stated when X is tested what the user SHOULD be seeing if the configuration is correct, so they are left to guess. Even I, who have used Mdk for quite a while was left wondering when they went from horizontal lines of penquines within a rainbow to a vertical rainbow. Thinking this was unacceptable, I loaded up Knoppix (just to try a few theories I had) and copied the Xfree config files Knoppix had created to my hard drive. Once I rebooted into Mandrake, I renamed out the Mandrake config files as .orig and put in the Knoppix ones. I restarted X to find a gorgeous screen with great resolution and color depth. Now admittedly, this is at a default of 1024x768 but I'll take a functional default over every option (that doesn't work) in the book. I realise that Mandrake has to allow for user defined variables but I find it sad that a Live CD has (in many instances, especially on laptops) far superior hardware detection/setup utilites than Mandrake. IMHO, perhaps Mandrake needs to take some of the flexibility out of the installation process and ensure that their install is as effective as Knoppix. Laptops are a bugger, I realize, but surely, Mandrake, with a virtual phalanx of talented developers should be able to do better than 1 person working part time on a live CD. I think if Mandrake could achieve that level of autodetection/configuration (but still allow power users to make/test changes after the fact) then it would quickly rise to the top as the single best desktop distro on offer. It's the little things that keep users from moving in droves I believe. A newbie would never bother (or be able) to go to the trouble I went to to get Linux running well on their system. And since (unlike Winblows) a newbie can't usually ring their neighbor for help, the distro must be as idiot proof as possible for newbies. I attach my XFree config files for your examination as I am not a coder so can't really tell you why Knoppix worked well and MDK didn't. The .orig files are the MDK ones, the others are my files that I copied from Knoppix. I hope this helps and wish Mandrake and all of its developers all the very best over the Christmas and Holiday Season. Kind Regards, Jason Greenwood __ Section "Files" RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X1
Re: [Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
In a recent article, Klaus Knopper (the creator of Knoppix) was asked if he was approached by SuSE or Redhat regarding his work - he said NO but would welcome it . . . Maybe we can convince Klaus that contributing to Mandrake would be a good idea? Or at least the Mandrake staff could try Knoppix themselves and dissect what he did and maybe learn a thing or two . . . I believe his Knoppix CD is based on Debian . . . Cheers, R.Fox On Sat, 2002-12-07 at 03:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dear Cookers (and others), > > I write this solely out of a desire to see Mandrake become the BEST > desktop Linux distro out there. I have only used Mandrake on my own > systems and have been a Cooker for almost a year now. I am an active > reader (and occasional participant) on this list. > > I have run across some situations which I hope will help the Mandrake > team make the distro even better. I have personally had several > scenarios where the Knoppix hardware detection and automatic default > configuration were FAR superior to Mandrakes, which is sad as Knoppix > has 1 lead developer and is not even aimed at being a full blown distro > but only a live Linux Demo CD. > > Case in point. I just installed 9.0 on my brand new Asus L2400D laptop. > Problem is, even though the SIS 630 Video card is detected, the default > (and all subsequent tested combinations) configuration is totaly > unacceptable as the screen res is too low. There is an error when I try > to go to a higher screen res/color depth so my only remaining option (in > Mandrake) is to leave it at 800x600 and the lowest possible color depth > which I can't recall off the top of my head. I tried every combination > available and many times, when I would try and test it, X would fall > over to the point that I had to just reboot. I think that the test > within MCC (if it doesn't work) should automagically return me to the > configuration options if it times out instead. Plus, Mandrake (to my > knowlege) has never stated when X is tested what the user SHOULD be > seeing if the configuration is correct, so they are left to guess. Even > I, who have used Mdk for quite a while was left wondering when they went > from horizontal lines of penquines within a rainbow to a vertical rainbow. > > Thinking this was unacceptable, I loaded up Knoppix (just to try a few > theories I had) and copied the Xfree config files Knoppix had created to > my hard drive. Once I rebooted into Mandrake, I renamed out the Mandrake > config files as .orig and put in the Knoppix ones. I restarted X to find > a gorgeous screen with great resolution and color depth. Now admittedly, > this is at a default of 1024x768 but I'll take a functional default over > every option (that doesn't work) in the book. I realise that Mandrake > has to allow for user defined variables but I find it sad that a Live CD > has (in many instances, especially on laptops) far superior hardware > detection/setup utilites than Mandrake. > > IMHO, perhaps Mandrake needs to take some of the flexibility out of the > installation process and ensure that their install is as effective as > Knoppix. Laptops are a bugger, I realize, but surely, Mandrake, with a > virtual phalanx of talented developers should be able to do better than > 1 person working part time on a live CD. > > I think if Mandrake could achieve that level of > autodetection/configuration (but still allow power users to make/test > changes after the fact) then it would quickly rise to the top as the > single best desktop distro on offer. It's the little things that keep > users from moving in droves I believe. A newbie would never bother (or > be able) to go to the trouble I went to to get Linux running well on > their system. And since (unlike Winblows) a newbie can't usually ring > their neighbor for help, the distro must be as idiot proof as possible > for newbies. > > I attach my XFree config files for your examination as I am not a coder > so can't really tell you why Knoppix worked well and MDK didn't. The > .orig files are the MDK ones, the others are my files that I copied from > Knoppix. > > I hope this helps and wish Mandrake and all of its developers all the > very best over the Christmas and Holiday Season. > > Kind Regards, > > Jason Greenwood > > __ > > Section "Files" > RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX" > # Additional fonts: Locale, Gimp, TT
[Cooker] MDK vs. Knoppix Auto Detection/Configuration
Dear Cookers (and others), I write this solely out of a desire to see Mandrake become the BEST desktop Linux distro out there. I have only used Mandrake on my own systems and have been a Cooker for almost a year now. I am an active reader (and occasional participant) on this list. I have run across some situations which I hope will help the Mandrake team make the distro even better. I have personally had several scenarios where the Knoppix hardware detection and automatic default configuration were FAR superior to Mandrakes, which is sad as Knoppix has 1 lead developer and is not even aimed at being a full blown distro but only a live Linux Demo CD. Case in point. I just installed 9.0 on my brand new Asus L2400D laptop. Problem is, even though the SIS 630 Video card is detected, the default (and all subsequent tested combinations) configuration is totaly unacceptable as the screen res is too low. There is an error when I try to go to a higher screen res/color depth so my only remaining option (in Mandrake) is to leave it at 800x600 and the lowest possible color depth which I can't recall off the top of my head. I tried every combination available and many times, when I would try and test it, X would fall over to the point that I had to just reboot. I think that the test within MCC (if it doesn't work) should automagically return me to the configuration options if it times out instead. Plus, Mandrake (to my knowlege) has never stated when X is tested what the user SHOULD be seeing if the configuration is correct, so they are left to guess. Even I, who have used Mdk for quite a while was left wondering when they went from horizontal lines of penquines within a rainbow to a vertical rainbow. Thinking this was unacceptable, I loaded up Knoppix (just to try a few theories I had) and copied the Xfree config files Knoppix had created to my hard drive. Once I rebooted into Mandrake, I renamed out the Mandrake config files as .orig and put in the Knoppix ones. I restarted X to find a gorgeous screen with great resolution and color depth. Now admittedly, this is at a default of 1024x768 but I'll take a functional default over every option (that doesn't work) in the book. I realise that Mandrake has to allow for user defined variables but I find it sad that a Live CD has (in many instances, especially on laptops) far superior hardware detection/setup utilites than Mandrake. IMHO, perhaps Mandrake needs to take some of the flexibility out of the installation process and ensure that their install is as effective as Knoppix. Laptops are a bugger, I realize, but surely, Mandrake, with a virtual phalanx of talented developers should be able to do better than 1 person working part time on a live CD. I think if Mandrake could achieve that level of autodetection/configuration (but still allow power users to make/test changes after the fact) then it would quickly rise to the top as the single best desktop distro on offer. It's the little things that keep users from moving in droves I believe. A newbie would never bother (or be able) to go to the trouble I went to to get Linux running well on their system. And since (unlike Winblows) a newbie can't usually ring their neighbor for help, the distro must be as idiot proof as possible for newbies. I attach my XFree config files for your examination as I am not a coder so can't really tell you why Knoppix worked well and MDK didn't. The .orig files are the MDK ones, the others are my files that I copied from Knoppix. I hope this helps and wish Mandrake and all of its developers all the very best over the Christmas and Holiday Season. Kind Regards, Jason Greenwood Section "Files" RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX" # Additional fonts: Locale, Gimp, TTF... FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" #FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/75dpi" #FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/100dpi" # True type and type1 fonts are also handled via xftlib, see /etc/X11/XftConfig! FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/ttf/western" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/ttf/decoratives" # FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/truetype/openoffice" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/defoma/CID" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/defoma/TrueType" EndSection Section "ServerFlags" EndSection Section "Keyboard" Protocol"Standard" AutoRepeat 500 5 Le
