Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 05:08:03AM +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: They are SMALL and this is safe to have both, so we don't care this loss of diskspace! So? Even if they are small, not BOTH are needed! lilo and grub do exactly the same thing, why do I need both? Next thing is that xosview is required by XFree86 because it's nice and small. If I have grub up and running I'm not at all interested in lilo (and opposite). And anyway as a poweruser, please do "rpm -e lilo --nodeps" and forget it. No, there is a reason (is there?) why both packages are REQUIRED, and I'm not going to break the requirement. Up to now there hasn't been any reason for requiring both lilo and grub, so could you please explain why both are required? Ever heard of KISS? Especially the first S is what I'm pointing at! Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Chmouel Boudjnah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Antony Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I recently upgraded my version of grub, but either I forgot, or the RPM script failed to re-run the /boot/grub/install.sh script. this is perfectly normal when upgrading a major version of grub But pixel WDYT to : [ -f /boot/grub/install.sh ] sh /boot/grub/install.shin %post well, i'd say [ $(detect_loader) = GRUB -f /boot/grub/install.sh ] ?
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Pixel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ -f /boot/grub/install.sh ] sh /boot/grub/install.shin %post well, i'd say [ $(detect_loader) = GRUB -f /boot/grub/install.sh ] ? right... -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org San-Francisco, CA USA --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Guillaume Cottenceau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 3. support edition of boot parameters, with completion and many rocking things (try to push "e" two times and edit the command line) e.g. one diskette with GRUB can boot any operation system because you will just enter parameters, and voila. That's indeed really cool. I just wish it could follow the vmlinuz and initrd.img symbolic links instead of having to edit the menu.lst everytime (or press 'e' because I forgot ;-). =-= kk1 Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 07:09:46PM +0100, Mark Hillary wrote: What are the addvantages off grub. I can't see any. Is there any other than what it looks like. Well, are there any advantages in lilo? Other than it is older. Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 09:14:05AM -0700, Quel Qun wrote: That's indeed really cool. I just wish it could follow the vmlinuz and initrd.img symbolic links instead of having to edit the menu.lst everytime (or press 'e' because I forgot ;-). It does! From my menu.lst: title linux kernel (hd0,1)/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda1 vga=0xa initrd (hd0,1)/initrd.img And ls says: [root 20:14:02 /boot]# ls -la /boot/vmlinuz /boot/initrd.img lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 25 Aug 23 18:41 /boot/initrd.img - initrd-2.2.17-0.17mdk.img lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 22 Aug 23 18:40 /boot/vmlinuz - vmlinuz-2.2.17-0.17mdk And I don't have any problems whatsoever to start "linux". Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 07:43:58PM +0200, Pixel wrote: lilo is 200KB, grub is 266KB, not that much is it? Yes, it is much, because one of them is not needed. There hasn't been an answer yet, so: Why both? And actually what Pixel said isn't an answer either. Just because both packages are quite small doesn't rectify to *NEED* both. Having both just adds to the overall bloatness of the system. Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, it is much, because one of them is not needed. There hasn't been an answer yet, so: Why both? I believe is for ''safe-ing'' purpose. -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org San-Francisco, CA USA --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Alexander Skwar wrote: On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 07:43:58PM +0200, Pixel wrote: lilo is 200KB, grub is 266KB, not that much is it? Yes, it is much, because one of them is not needed. There hasn't been an answer yet, so: Why both? And actually what Pixel said isn't an answer either. Just because both packages are quite small doesn't rectify to *NEED* both. Having both just adds to the overall bloatness of the system. GRUB isn't bug-free, so we _do_ need both. I used to use grub and preferred it to lilo, but since I now boot from a SCSI disk on an Adaptec 2940U controller it won't work for me. AFAIK, lilo works on anything, so if you wanted to just have one it would have to be lilo. -- -- Peter Ruskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wrexham, UK KDE - the professionals' choice --
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 09:14:05AM -0700, Quel Qun wrote: That's indeed really cool. I just wish it could follow the vmlinuz and initrd.img symbolic links instead of having to edit the menu.lst everytime (or press 'e' because I forgot ;-). It does! From my menu.lst: title linux kernel (hd0,1)/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda1 vga=0xa initrd (hd0,1)/initrd.img And ls says: [root 20:14:02 /boot]# ls -la /boot/vmlinuz /boot/initrd.img lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 25 Aug 23 18:41 /boot/initrd.img - initrd-2.2.17-0.17mdk.img lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 22 Aug 23 18:40 /boot/vmlinuz - vmlinuz-2.2.17-0.17mdk And I don't have any problems whatsoever to start "linux". Great! When I tried a while ago it was complaining that the file was not a valid kernel. Glad this has been changed. Thanks, =-= kk1 Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 01:19:54PM -0700, Quel Qun wrote: Great! BTW: [askwar 01:32:33 ~/RPM/SOURCES/extace-1.3.0]$ rpm -q grub grub-0.5.94-12mdk Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 11:57:37AM -0700, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, it is much, because one of them is not needed. There hasn't been an answer yet, so: Why both? I believe is for ''safe-ing'' purpose. Fine, but why are both packages needed by basesystem? It would be easy to specify a "Provides: mbr" in both packages and then to only "Requires: mbr" in the basesystem SPEC file. This way only one would be needed, and users who have no problems with grub could uninstall lilo, or the other way around. And actually even a "Requires: mbr" in basesystem would be bloat for the users of loadlin. I don't see why lilo *AND* grub are REQUIRED. Having one, or even none, is good enough! BTW: What do you mean by ''safe-ing''? Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 07:53:05PM +0100, Peter Ruskin wrote: GRUB isn't bug-free, so we _do_ need both. I used to use grub and Sure it isn't, but I'll bet that LILO isn't either. preferred it to lilo, but since I now boot from a SCSI disk on an Adaptec 2940U controller it won't work for me. AFAIK, lilo works on anything, so Is this a known problem of grub with Adaptec controllers? Alexander Skwar -- Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.dp.ath.cx Sichere Mail? Mail an [EMAIL PROTECTED] fuer GnuPG Keys ICQ:7328191
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
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Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Alexander Skwar wrote: On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 07:53:05PM +0100, Peter Ruskin wrote: GRUB isn't bug-free, so we _do_ need both. I used to use grub and Sure it isn't, but I'll bet that LILO isn't either. preferred it to lilo, but since I now boot from a SCSI disk on an Adaptec 2940U controller it won't work for me. AFAIK, lilo works on anything, so Is this a known problem of grub with Adaptec controllers? Extract from my post to this list Thu, 24 Aug 2000 04:31:01 +0100 ... Thanks Pixel, tried that. It's a GRUB bug. /usr/doc/grub-doc-0.5.94/BUGS: - GRUB hangs up when accessing a disk via Adaptec AIC-7880 SCSI-controller in LBA mode. It is unknown if this is due to GRUB or the SCSI BIOS. For now, you need to disable the BIOS support for INT 13 Extension (that is, you can't use the LBA mode). This means there's no support for my Adaptec 2940U card unless I use a tiny disk. All I get is the one liner: "stage 1". So it's back to lilo for me. -- -- Peter Ruskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wrexham, UK KDE - the professionals' choice --
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fine, but why are both packages needed by basesystem? It would be easy to specify a "Provides: mbr" in both packages and then to only "Requires: mbr" in the basesystem SPEC file. This way only one would be needed, and users who have no problems with grub could uninstall lilo, or the other way around. And actually even a "Requires: mbr" in basesystem would be bloat for the users of loadlin. I don't see why lilo *AND* grub are REQUIRED. Having one, or even none, is good enough! pixel ? BTW: What do you mean by ''safe-ing''? ''to be safe'' it's a ...pastaga[1]-english... [1] South of french people will understand (which i'm not thanks god). -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org San-Francisco, CA USA --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Chmouel Boudjnah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fine, but why are both packages needed by basesystem? It would be easy to specify a "Provides: mbr" in both packages and then to only "Requires: mbr" in the basesystem SPEC file. This way only one would be needed, and users who have no problems with grub could uninstall lilo, or the other way around. And actually even a "Requires: mbr" in basesystem would be bloat for the users of loadlin. I don't see why lilo *AND* grub are REQUIRED. Having one, or even none, is good enough! pixel ? Thought after a ''pastaga[1]''-shot i can understand it make sense to have both. Actually grub is much easier bring a lot of new features and when you take time to understand how it work you'll never want to fallback to lilo. But (and yes there is one but unfortunately we are not in a love story book here) grub has some bugs we can't ignore, like the non booting on some Adaptec cards. So we have to provides as ''fallback'' lilo to be sure the user will boot his system. Booting is the first and much important thing to run an operating system to begin, so we have to make sure to this the safest as possible. /Chmou will one day wrote pink-love-story books/ /Pixel happy ;)/ [1] Martini-Vodka as usual for me.. -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org San-Francisco, CA USA --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Fine, but why are both packages needed by basesystem? It would be easy to specify a "Provides: mbr" in both packages and then to only "Requires: mbr" in the basesystem SPEC file. This way only one would be needed, and users who have no problems with grub could uninstall lilo, or the other way around. And actually even a "Requires: mbr" in basesystem would be bloat for the users of loadlin. I don't see why lilo *AND* grub are REQUIRED. Having one, or even none, is good enough! Both packages are SMALL, and at install time, both lilo and grub config files are generated, so afterwards you just have to type "lilo" if you encounter problems with grub for example. They are SMALL and this is safe to have both, so we don't care this loss of diskspace! And anyway as a poweruser, please do "rpm -e lilo --nodeps" and forget it. -- Guillaume Cottenceau -- Distribution Developer for MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What are the addvantages off grub. I can't see any. Is there any other than what it looks like. no need to regenerate lilo when rebooting ? and if you have a bad lilo.conf and don't have a rescue disk you can say bye bye, with grub you can specify another kernel to load at boottime (and with shell completion). I recently upgraded my version of grub, but either I forgot, or the RPM script failed to re-run the /boot/grub/install.sh script. The result was that my system wouldnt boot. I couldnt boot the install CD in rescue mode to fix it either because grub refused to run, either before a chroot or after. (Note, my /usr was reiserfs on a /dev/md0 working perfectly up to this point). I had to make up a lilo.conf and run lilo to get my system to boot. Ive now found that grub has a simple text mode menu, and I would deinstall grub if I could. -- - Antony Suter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "Examiner" openpgp:71ADFC87 - "And how do you store the nuclear equivalent of the universal solvent?"
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Antony Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I recently upgraded my version of grub, but either I forgot, or the RPM script failed to re-run the /boot/grub/install.sh script. this is perfectly normal when upgrading a major version of grub But pixel WDYT to : [ -f /boot/grub/install.sh ] sh /boot/grub/install.shin %post of grub ? -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org San-Francisco, CA USA --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Antony Suter wrote: Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What are the addvantages off grub. I can't see any. Is there any other than what it looks like. no need to regenerate lilo when rebooting ? and if you have a bad lilo.conf and don't have a rescue disk you can say bye bye, with grub you can specify another kernel to load at boottime (and with shell completion). I recently upgraded my version of grub, but either I forgot, or the RPM script failed to re-run the /boot/grub/install.sh script. The result was that my system wouldnt boot. I couldnt boot the install CD in rescue mode to fix it either because grub refused to run, either before a chroot or after. (Note, my /usr was reiserfs on a /dev/md0 working perfectly up to this point). I had to make up a lilo.conf and run lilo to get my system to boot. Ive now found that grub has a simple text mode menu, and I would deinstall grub if I could. Sorry I meant I found that lilo has a simple text menu... -- - Antony Suter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "Examiner" openpgp:71ADFC87 - "And how do you store the nuclear equivalent of the universal solvent?"
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Antony Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry I meant I found that lilo has a simple text menu... Yup lilo does this now, but /me say to add this : kernel (hd0,5)/home/chmou/work/kernel/source/arch/i386/boot/bzImage root=/dev/hda6 in my grub entry save me a lot of reboot since i build a lot of kernel from ths tree and with lilo i sometime forget to rerun /sbin/lilo before rebooting -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org San-Francisco, CA USA --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What are the addvantages off grub. I can't see any. Is there any other than what it looks like. many, but I can list 3 rocking things: 1. recent/cross-kernel's architecture 2. read config files at bootup (a.k.a don't need to rerun the MBR installer at each change of bootup config files) 3. support edition of boot parameters, with completion and many rocking things (try to push "e" two times and edit the command line) e.g. one diskette with GRUB can boot any operation system because you will just enter parameters, and voila. it rocks. -- Guillaume Cottenceau -- Distribution Developer for MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Antony Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I had to make up a lilo.conf and run lilo to get my system to boot. Ive now found that grub has a simple text mode menu, and I would deinstall grub if I could. Why couldn't you do that? Your lilo.conf is probably already configured by DrakX and then, verify it, and issue "/sbin/lilo".. -- Guillaume Cottenceau -- Distribution Developer for MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
[Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Is it really necessary to have both lilo and grub installed? [root@gamut]# rpm -e --test lilo grub error: removing these packages would break dependencies: lilo is needed by basesystem-7.1-4mdk grub is needed by basesystem-7.1-4mdk -- - Antony Suter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "Examiner" openpgp:71ADFC87 - "And how do you store the nuclear equivalent of the universal solvent?"
Re: [Cooker] both grub and lilo?
Antony Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it really necessary to have both lilo and grub installed? much easier (lilo is required by mkbootdisk) lilo is 200KB, grub is 266KB, not that much is it?
