Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Can we also have a '--update' flag for urpmi.update ? So then: # urpmi.update --update; urpmi --auto-select --auto --update would only update hdlists for updates? urpmi.update update_source;urpmi --auto-select --auto does the trick for updates, which automatically takes care of them. I have this timed too, very useful, always up-to-date system
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Le ven 29/11/2002 à 11:45, Tarmo Hyvärinen a écrit : Can we also have a '--update' flag for urpmi.update ? So then: # urpmi.update --update; urpmi --auto-select --auto --update would only update hdlists for updates? urpmi.update update_source;urpmi --auto-select --auto does the trick for updates, which automatically takes care of them. I have this timed too, very useful, always up-to-date system The problem occurs when you have a lot of updates (wich will the case now as you can register multiple updates media and urpmi will fecth packages potentially from all of them in order to avoid problem from down site or not up-to-date mirror. So features is in urpmi-4.1-3mdk in cooker since yesterday along with mirrors management. François.
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tarmo Hyvärinen wrote: Can we also have a '--update' flag for urpmi.update ? So then: # urpmi.update --update; urpmi --auto-select --auto --update would only update hdlists for updates? urpmi.update update_source;urpmi --auto-select --auto does the trick for updates, which automatically takes care of them. I have this timed too, very useful, always up-to-date system True, but when you are managing a number of servers, where different people might have set up the updates sources, you now have to remember what the name of the update source is. Since there is already an option in urpmi, I am gald fpons added it to urpmi.update, since it makes it consistent. I really don't think I need to update urpmi sources for contrib, main and jpackage just to be sure Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE954f6rJK6UGDSBKcRAqgWAJ9YH3csIxDnD9ylQqVal22oYi98ugCfVuxn 01GZA7F3nr/cvhkhnLpnxvY= =fs+N -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
On Thursday 28 November 2002 00:14, Stephen Pickering wrote: I _really_ do not want to start the deb. vs. rpm holy wars again, but I get so sick of hearing it from deb-heads. Why are debs so much better than rpms? Tell me what you can do on a Debian box that you can't do on a Mandrake box, package installation-wise. b. Gentoo ? I think the following is a good read: http://www.distrowatch.com/article-rpm.php I really want to hear something why debs are better than rpms. But noone had show me the advances clear. The above article bashing a lot on rpm's but I've seen no arguments in there. Why should I could install rpms from SuSE on Mandrake and other way round ? Ok it might be good if I could do so, but where is there the argument for debs ? I can install debs safely on debian , thats it, but I can install mdk-rpms on mandrake mostly safely, so where is the argument ? I really want to hear: Is it easier to make good debs than making good rpms ? Is it easier to make debs at all ? Why is it easier ? What could be done to make it easier to make RPMs , or what does RPM lacks so that it isn't possible to make it easier ? Could there be made a GUI for making RPMs safely out of sources , fast and easy ? The only thing I thought a lot of times is, that I would love to see for Mandrake Meta-packages Don't know if this Idea was discussed before, but I think this would be usefull: urpmi meta kde == install the kde-selection that was in the install process present. urpmi meta developer == same for the developer selection I install mostly only a few things on a new install, if I need something I go and fetch it with urpmi. Maybe the urpmf file = urpmi package-process could be easily automated too ? The next thing is that these suggested ways in the article are only usable for high-bandwith-users. Has anyone tried apt-get dist upgrade with ISDN or modem ? Or anyone out there who tried install Gentoo with modem ? I don't think so Just my 2 cent. Greets Steffen
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Steffen Barszus wrote: Is it easier to make good debs than making good rpms ? Is it easier to make debs at all ? Why is it easier ? What could be done to make it easier to make RPMs , or what does RPM lacks so that it isn't possible to make it easier ? Could there be made a GUI for making RPMs safely out of sources , fast and easy ? Whth urpmi you have to update entire filelists everytime you want to upgrade/download from an internet source because otherwise you get pointers to unavailables packages. with apt-get update you don't have to. Packages are up to date everytime. I don't know precisely how it work but you don't have to update entire filelists everytime. Filelists represent like 25MB of data on a cooker + contribs this is quite huge to download whan you just like to update one or two packages or just want one new installed. maybe Mandrakesoft can improove urpmi in some way in that direction. -- Léa Gris
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Le jeu 28/11/2002 à 12:22, Lea Gris a écrit : Whth urpmi you have to update entire filelists everytime you want to upgrade/download from an internet source because otherwise you get pointers to unavailables packages. Yes, maybe it can be automated but urpmi.update -a urpmi --auto-select --auto is not quite hard to write if any you write it. with apt-get update you don't have to. Packages are up to date everytime. I don't know precisely how it work but you don't have to update entire filelists everytime. Filelists represent like 25MB of data on a cooker + contribs this is quite huge to download whan you just like to update one or two packages or just want one new installed. $ wc -c /var/lib/urpmi/synthesis.hdlist.cooker.cz 142518 /var/lib/urpmi/synthesis.hdlist.cooker.cz Is it too large ? It is less than 25MB anyway. Of course if you want to use urpmf, it is no more usable but it is enough for installing packages (even with --auto-select) maybe Mandrakesoft can improove urpmi in some way in that direction. Currently the last improvement are use another mirror for downloading file (if some site gets unreachable), allow not creating list file (more an internal improvement) and some bug fixes. François.
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 François Pons wrote: Currently the last improvement are use another mirror for downloading file (if some site gets unreachable), allow not creating list file (more an internal improvement) and some bug fixes. Can we also have a '--update' flag for urpmi.update ? So then: # urpmi.update --update; urpmi --auto-select --auto --update would only update hdlists for updates? - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE95hywrJK6UGDSBKcRAu6XAJsFGHVSIBd5dIdMlpIZ7cKz/vx6SwCcDYy7 9DCLB+peyHsCRYKKMPsgtw0= =DFxL -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 11:22, Lea Gris wrote: Filelists represent like 25MB of data on a cooker + contribs this is quite huge to download whan you just like to update one or two packages or just want one new installed. maybe Mandrakesoft can improove urpmi in some way in that direction. Um, that's only the complete hdlist, which you only need to download if you want package descriptions. Otherwise you can use the synthesis files, synthesis.hdlist.cz (for Cooker) and synthesis.hdlist2.cz (for contribs), which are 137KB and 105KB respectively at the moment - hardly anything. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Le jeu 28/11/2002 à 14:40, Buchan Milne a écrit : Can we also have a '--update' flag for urpmi.update ? So then: # urpmi.update --update; urpmi --auto-select --auto --update would only update hdlists for updates? Why not, wait some minutes. François.
Re: Urpmi improvment request WAS : Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 12:53, Lea Gris wrote: François Pons wrote: Le jeu 28/11/2002 à 12:22, Lea Gris a écrit : Whth urpmi you have to update entire filelists everytime you want to upgrade/download from an internet source because otherwise you get pointers to unavailables packages. Yes, maybe it can be automated but urpmi.update -a urpmi --auto-select --auto is not quite hard to write if any you write it. with apt-get update you don't have to. Packages are up to date everytime. I don't know precisely how it work but you don't have to update entire filelists everytime. Filelists represent like 25MB of data on a cooker + contribs this is quite huge to download whan you just like to update one or two packages or just want one new installed. $ wc -c /var/lib/urpmi/synthesis.hdlist.cooker.cz 142518 /var/lib/urpmi/synthesis.hdlist.cooker.cz Is it too large ? It is less than 25MB anyway. ls -lh i586/Mandrake/base/hdlist.cz -r--r-1 ftp ftp 15M nov 17 23:03 i586/Mandrake/base/hdlist.cz ls -lh i586/Mandrake/base/hdlist2.cz -r--r-1 ftp ftp 7.4M nov 17 23:03 i586/Mandrake/base/hdlist2.cz Yep only 22.5 MB ans les than 25 MB sorry for my small exaggeration ;) I don't want to upgrade everythink everytime. Let's say I don't have tuxracer installed and want to install it : urpmi tuxracer curl: (19) tuxracer-0.61-11mdk.i586.rpm: No such file or directory what does it mean ? Just that the cooker mirror has recieved new packages but my local filelist still reference the old tuxracer ok so I need to get no package lists lets upgrade my local filelist to the mirror ones : urpmi.update -a 22.5 MB of download just for the updated Install and Contrib list then 7.2 MB for the tuxracer package Read my and Francois' responses again. Note the filenames we gave: synthesis.hdlist.cz, not hdlist.cz. You have the full hdlists, which include descriptions, changelogs, file lists etc etc for each package. Which is why they're huge. If you just want to use urpmi --auto-select and urpmi package name, and don't need to be able to query the descriptions and so on of packages you don't have installed, use the synthesis.hdlist.cz file from the mirrors, not the hdlist.cz file. It doesn't include this information and is thus far smaller. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Adam Williamson wrote: Um, that's only the complete hdlist, which you only need to download if you want package descriptions. Otherwise you can use the synthesis files, synthesis.hdlist.cz (for Cooker) and synthesis.hdlist2.cz (for contribs), which are 137KB and 105KB respectively at the moment - hardly anything. Outch, sorry ! Din't know I could use these ones :) I used to do this : urpmi.addmedia --distrib ftp://mynearestmirror.com/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake-devel/cooker/cooker/ And that one reference the huge hdlist.cz files Now I'll add my download sources with urpmi.addmedia cooker ftp://mynearestmirror.com/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake-devel/cooker/cooker/Mandrake/RPMS/ with ../base/synthesis.hdlist.cz urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mynearestmirror.com/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake-devel/cooker/cooker/Mandrake/RPMS2/ with ../base/synthesis.hdlist2.cz A shortest way to add entire distrib download source with synthesis.hdlist files would help by the way. Regards, -- Léa Gris
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Le jeu 28/11/2002 à 14:10, Lea Gris a écrit : Adam Williamson wrote: Um, that's only the complete hdlist, which you only need to download if you want package descriptions. Otherwise you can use the synthesis files, synthesis.hdlist.cz (for Cooker) and synthesis.hdlist2.cz (for contribs), which are 137KB and 105KB respectively at the moment - hardly anything. Outch, sorry ! Din't know I could use these ones :) I used to do this : urpmi.addmedia --distrib ftp://mynearestmirror.com/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake-devel/cooker/cooker/ And that one reference the huge hdlist.cz files Yes, sorry from me for that part, but cdrom or local mirror (or copy) of cdrom use a lot of hdlist (so a lot of media) which is complicated by hand for each of them, and using a local or cdrom device, it is problably easier to get the full hdlist support (for urpmf). Adding cooker directly using network interface was at least the same of adding cooker or contrib by hand, and some people don't want contrib but only cooker so --distrib is *always* defaulting to hdlist instead of synthesis, whereas -h flag is prefering the synthesis all the time instead of hdlist (since -h may be more usefull with network access ?). A shortest way to add entire distrib download source with synthesis.hdlist files would help by the way. So I will add a flag to prefer synthesis or hdlist... François.
Re: [Cooker] Re: Propositions for rpmdrake
Brian J. Murrell wrote: On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 07:48:38PM +, Stephen Pickering wrote: I'd like rpmdrake urpmi to have an option to list updates that are over say 'n' days old, a command line switch for urpmi, eg: urpmi --available_for 5 I've found that sometimes an rpm is released and it screws the system, a few hours or days later a new rpm is released which cures the problem. Yeah, I would like this. I would use it for production releases as well, not just keeping a bit of distance from bleeding edge Cooker. BTW: rpmdrake is what sways most people to change to Mandrake from the likes of RH. Yeah? I am not disputing this fact but am interested in why people do switch. If you can, please cite the source of the data that backs this statement up. Personal experience, I've shown a couple of people my system or managed to persuade them to install Mandrake on a new system and there hooked. This applies to people I know personally and people thru the company usenet groups. The only ones I know who won't try Mandrake are the ones who are using RH because it's approved for Oracle or Clearcase :-( I've used RH, debian, suse, mandrake, slackware, corel linux mcc (now that's an old one, Kernel 0.93 I think :-). For the desktop, Mandrake :-) Just need it to support deb's and for Mandrake to make the switch :-) I _really_ do not want to start the deb. vs. rpm holy wars again, but I get so sick of hearing it from deb-heads. Why are debs so much better than rpms? Tell me what you can do on a Debian box that you can't do on a Mandrake box, package installation-wise. b. Gentoo ? I think the following is a good read: http://www.distrowatch.com/article-rpm.php -- Steve
