Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2-11 doesn't work anymore
Joakim Bodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Betz wrote: Upgrading to the latest XFree4.2 packages left me without an X display with my Matrox G200. System's coming up fine, even the X Server is starting without any complains but then it seems to just turn off the video signal and my monitor goes into power save mode. All earlier releases worked fine. -- Michael Betz Well, I tried 11mdk yesterday with my g400 DH and had a similar problem, the second head monitor won't get activated but other than that DH seemed to work fine (moving mouse between heads etc) just that I couldn't see it. I just found it a bit strange I think it's fixed in the 4.0.3 package I have uploaded today. Could you confirm ? -- Fred - May the source be with you
Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2-11 doesn't work anymore
Michael Betz wrote: Upgrading to the latest XFree4.2 packages left me without an X display with my Matrox G200. System's coming up fine, even the X Server is starting without any complains but then it seems to just turn off the video signal and my monitor goes into power save mode. All earlier releases worked fine. -- Michael Betz Well, I tried 11mdk yesterday with my g400 DH and had a similar problem, the second head monitor won't get activated but other than that DH seemed to work fine (moving mouse between heads etc) just that I couldn't see it. I just found it a bit strange Joakim Bodin
Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2 fonts antialising and Qt patches?
"Andrej Borsenkow" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrej Borsenkow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've read that to enable use of fonts antialising in KDE you need Qt compiled with special patches. Is it correct? Does Qt in cooker include these patches? Nope , we remove them since it's in alpha stage . You mean to say that cooker is release ready? :-) :) The fact is that anti-aliasing is in very early age of integration in Qt and seems to break some stuffs (lot of fonts are not supported ) . We decided to remove it as kde developers requested .
Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2 fonts antialising and Qt patches?
Andrej Borsenkow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've read that to enable use of fonts antialising in KDE you need Qt compiled with special patches. Is it correct? Does Qt in cooker include these patches? Nope , we remove them since it's in alpha stage .
RE: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2 fonts antialising and Qt patches?
Andrej Borsenkow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've read that to enable use of fonts antialising in KDE you need Qt compiled with special patches. Is it correct? Does Qt in cooker include these patches? Nope , we remove them since it's in alpha stage . You mean to say that cooker is release ready? :-) -andrej
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Franck Martin wrote: I liked the system of Walnut, where you could subscribe for several years to slackware or other CDs. I think Mandrake should do that online, where you receive automatically the new version of Mandrake in the post. Nothing Fancy just the CDs in an envelope. For us couch potatoes or people who don't have a convenient store nearby, you subscribe online to Mandrake and/or Mandrake cooker for 2 years, which will give you 2-3 versions of Mandrake Let me point a few things that people may not be noting. Yeah there are great ideas being posted here. But also a lot of stereotypes. And myths... First Linux is still under development. As anyone ever talked about a stable Linux? Tell me where Linus or anyone has ever talked about this. Most that concerns him is the stability of a damn piece of software called kernel. On does not make a point on anything else. Get the road you want and go over it. So speaking about stable Linuxes is the same as asking for the "Bright Future" of Communists. Let me note this. You are doing the same error of some communists, by extrapolating things over its limits. Marx wrote a damn book and spoke about tendencies for society and Man. And ideologists picked it up and extrapolate that we should wait for the "Bright Future". Sorry, but Linux is more a mix of Capitalism and Trotskism. Nothing is permanent here except the "permanent revolution". Worse, nothing is fully stable and gets a guarantee to keep its place for long. Not even the kernel. If anyone comes with a better kernel (I wouldn't put Hurd here) then the whole thing may well change its name from "Linux". All we can talk is about stable trends. One such trend is a distro, like Mandrake. And we come into the second myth. Clients should wait for support. Cool who tells you they should wait for it? Right now, I am not talking about Mandrake but the whole mess around that piece of kernel. Who tells you that Linux should have client support? Linux is a mess. And in this mess there are no providers or clients. In terms of a general principle. I would like to remind a small doc considered to be one of the main "Letters of principle" of this community: "The Cathedral and the Bazaar". Go read it to refresh some ideas. Now we go back to Mandrake. Some may go over this principle. We are a free community and market. Much more free than RMS wishes... So some, like Caldera, RedHat, Mandrake, may position a different ruleset in their relation with a segment of the community. And set their relation more in a form of provider/client basis. But no one states the base of this relation. Absolutely no one. Some came here to bash Mandrake for "unsupporting" support except on security. Yeah, it's bad, it may be a market failure for MandrakeSoft. But no one got the point of reminding that MandrakeSoft is the one only company shooting distros faster than anyone else. On the area MS (NOT M$) is this is the most correct form to act. A desktop user needs more a stable system wholescale than in servers. There are lots of factors for this, but it would take 200 pages to state them. I will only remind one. We have a server working for 1,5 year with several things in shambles after a damn electrical blackout. But we can handle it because we are experts and we know how to keep the critical services working. A average user without any knowledge of the inners of this stuff would immediately jump outta the window. Or be hanged by the crowd after reinstalling the system... Now on a desktop system this is completely different. User does NOT want to deal with details. He SURELY will NOT wish to deal with patches, upgrades and other stuff that surely will add a few more features to the system but also endanger its stability. Let me tell you one thing. We have an history of two desktop Linux systems here. And I have seen the following thing coming. You made a new workstation, you patch and upgrade for a year until you get a new fresh system ready. In the first three monthes patches and upgrades may help on something. On the next three-six monthes you only see how things start crumbling down. Further than six monthes one should THINK VERY HARD before doing even a security patch. That's what happens when you deal with users. Because no one would like to dig down to find the reason why KDE got slower or X started crashing or Netscape freezing. These details are not average users. Mandrake stepped over this market to cover the user desktop world. And its point of choice is technically the correct one. However I am not saying that users should not wait for support. Good, let's give them that. But, on the base of what I stated above, I can come into only one point on how this support should be made: pay, pay well, and get it. Because MS should pick up its stable distros and make smaller "cookers" out of them. So that users may be sure that they get something really stable.
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
- Original Message - From: "Salane" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 Not only that, with some patience and reading of ..oh what maybe mandrakeuser.org one can download the rpms one needs. I am on 7.2 with 4.0.2 and its working perfectly. Could you briefly describe the proceedure for the benefit of the group (although this is more properly posted to the expert list)? Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
from www.mandrakeforum.com I think the rpms are i686 maybe someone will compile them for i586 get freetype2 and the freetype2-devel from cooker and install them next get all the 4.02 rpms from mandragon.org and install them. reboot. Thats all there is too it Salane On Friday 22 December 2000 09:55 am, you wrote: - Original Message - From: "Salane" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 Not only that, with some patience and reading of ..oh what maybe mandrakeuser.org one can download the rpms one needs. I am on 7.2 with 4.0.2 and its working perfectly. Could you briefly describe the proceedure for the benefit of the group (although this is more properly posted to the expert list)? Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2
civileme wrote: XFree-4.0.2 can be found (for 7.2) at ftp://mandragon.org/pub/mandrake Not so. Here's what happens: FTP Connection Failed Description: Login incorrect. Seems there is no anonymous ftp to this site. -- Regards, Ron. [AU]
Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2
Le Vendredi 22 Décembre 2000 20:59, vous avez écrit : Not so. Here's what happens: FTP Connection Failed Description: Login incorrect. Seems there is no anonymous ftp to this site. The ftp is anonymous, it works, i mirrored everything, the server is just very busy. CU Stef -- '[Software Is Like Sex, It's Better When It's Free]'
Re: [Cooker] XFree-4.0.2
The trick is to make it profitable, paying not only for its own cost but for the dimunition of the revenue stream of people not buying the newest boxed sets because they already have the updates, but that is more a business and feasibility issue than a technical or moral one. how about the dimunition of the revenue stream from folks who got tagged by the L-M 7.2 retail beta thing btw im still waiting for my update cd and i am still waiting for an answer as to when the cd will arrive (i now know somebody with a burn and wideband 50% chance the next release will not be purchased by me) Robert L Martin
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain "interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? Just trying to keep pace with Open Software... Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: "Hoyt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Yes, it's a lot of work, but it gives the impression that you don't support your product in the way a consumer understands support. It's also an argument for not having so many point releases and further illustrates that Linux is really still in development. None of this is good from an advocacy viewpoint, but it is the way "business is done". I have several arguments to oppose to that: - we are not in the usual business, a "consumer" is to be understood differently, because some of them did not pay us any direct money for using our products (the downloads) so we feel less stressed to fit their direct needs (nvidia and aureal drivers are another good example of what "consumers" deadly want) ; also, the price of our product is very very low compared to the products that get this support ; for example Microsoft don't provide free (in the sense of free of price) updates for anything (except very strategis things like Internet Explorer where their aim is to kill the opponents not to make a normal living from the product) - supporting our product can be understood differently: whenever you bought or donwloaded any version, you are free to download a more recent version to have the updates; in that sense, we do support our products because anyone can benefit from the latest stuff at no cost - in our domain, the importance of keeping in touch with latest stuff is very very important, so the balance between putting resource in that and in the rest is different
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Thursday 21 December 2000 08:19, ?? : | I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain | "interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I | could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? | To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that | Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on | the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? I doubt that such service will work. RedHat claimed (just few days ago) that they have 60 000 subscribers to "Red Hat Network" But, it's now in "testing" mode, when you pay nothing. Let's see how may of these 60 000 subscribers will agree to pay $9.95 per month for software updates. Several companies have 5 of more computers with Linux installed. Will they pay 5x $9.95, or just download once updates fior one computer, and re-distribute it to 4 others? I personally, would subscriber to such service, if, for example, software updates on CD, once per month, are mailed to me (by post service, not by e-mail). Yes, I have slow connection, and can't download Cooker or any *latest* release, which is close to 1.2GB just for binaries. | | Just trying to keep pace with Open Software... | | Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: |"Hoyt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: |Yes, it's a lot of work, but it gives the impression that you don't |support your product in the way a consumer understands support. It's |also an argument for not having so many point releases and further |illustrates that Linux is really still in development. None of this is |good from an advocacy viewpoint, but it is the way "business is done". | |I have several arguments to oppose to that: I don't want to "oppose" Guillaume, but IMHO: - Linux is really still in development - this is not good from an advocacy viewpoint (yes, how you can convinience customers to move to *development* platform) and: -KDE 2.x, which is in development, is better to have as upgrade. KDE2 builds for LM 7.2 work on LM 7.0 and 7.1 I don't know if you track you customer base (6.0, 6.1, 7.0, etc.) It will be good if you drop all them a mail saying that there is a new KDE2 which is recommended as upgade. -XFree86 [4.0.2] - you should recommend as upgrade to all people as well. You need it just to load X when your video is ATI Radeon or NVidia GeForce 2. These adapters are not supported in 4.0.1, not speaking about 3.3.6 (and AFAIK there are no plans to backport Radeon and GF2 drivers to 3.3.6) | |- we are not in the usual business, a "consumer" is to be understood | differently, because some of them did not pay us any direct money for | using our products (the downloads) so we feel less stressed to fit |their direct needs (nvidia and aureal drivers are another good example |of what "consumers" deadly want) ; also, the price of our product is |very very low compared to the products that get this support ; for |example Microsoft don't provide free (in the sense of free of price) |updates for anything (except very strategis things like Internet |Explorer where their aim is to kill the opponents not to make a normal |living from the product) Let me suggest once more: many of these problems will be solved, if Linux Mandrake appears pre-installed on PCs. It doesn't matter - is it white-box or brand-name. Unfortunately, it looks like that Mandrake doesn't have any bundled deals. Despite the fact that Henri Pool was promising such deals in August 2000, just after his appointment. -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:04, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. This is FAR from everything... You're welcomed to quit this mailing list and go somewhere where people approach the infinity better than us.. [...] Think two minutes: what would you like to see in the updates? obviously, for example kde-2, gnome-1.2, xmms-1.2.4, rpm-4, XFree-4, for older distribs such as 7.0. This is an *enormous* amount of work, and, come on, we release everything on the web very conveniently, so why not upgrading or installing the 7.2.. It's 7.2 I'm talking about!!! So what you're saying is that if I want to upgrade my system to the latest stable releases of products, and I want to use my distribtion-companies own rpm I have to use a unstable build of the whole dis (cooker, and yes, it is unstable!). This is bullshit, think about it. In one way you're saying that we (the customers) should install an MDK, never upgrade anything except if it's a security upgrade, and never get any new version of a program (even when the new version are a lot more stable) except for when the next release of the distribution is out... ? If you wanna talk about 7.2 (and I'm sure that many people would like upgrade of normal software for their 7.1 that they don't want to upgrade to 7.2, etc, etc), there are two things you're missing: the first is that during that time, we are busy doing many important things including internal developments and longer-term moves such as the library new policy, and we don't spend much time testing our packages (that's a bit of the role of Cooker, to help us stabilize), therefore if we provided such packages we would end up with unhappy customers, who would have upgraded this or that package, and this would have broke their system; the second thing you're missing is that once it's XFree, then it's that other package, and this one too, etc: users would wonder why we provide that package but not that other; we would end up with maintaining two branches of packages, one for 7.2 and one for cooker, thus 7.2 would become a bit like cooker, but with the exigence of stability we would spend all our time verifying that the packages actually work.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I'm not arguing about this. What I'm arguing about is that Mandrake seems to "refuse" to release packages to the customers, while almost every other distribution out there does this. I'm not so sure that every other distribution out there has yet stuff like XFree 4.0.2 or rpm 4. This is starting to remind me more and more about another software company without mentioning names.. Pretty fun that from time to time a lamer comes on that list and claim that we're doing more and more like Microsoft. This sort of closes my interest for that discussion. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
"David Foresman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] software like kde2.1, gnome 1.2, kernel 2.4, and xfree 4.0.2 should be ^^ Did someone tell you that it's not yet even *released* as a stable version?? -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Neal Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain "interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? This is currently under question here at MandrakeSoft :-). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
RE: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
I would certainly be ready to part with my hard earned shekels for a service such as Neal is suggesting, however it would be even better if such a service also included fixes for "non security" bugs found after the product release, and not just more "interesting" versions. BTW: Would I be correct in assuming that the new glibc is the main culprit for incompatibility between Cooker and 7.2, and once we move past this, at least for a little while subsequent Cookers will be more compatible with subsequent releases? Rgds: Michael Perry. RD. Dep. Netafim Magal. Linux -- the Ultimate Windows Service Pack The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. -Original Message- From: Guillaume Cottenceau [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, December 21, 2000 13:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 Neal Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain "interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? This is currently under question here at MandrakeSoft :-). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Thursday 21 December 2000 06:41, Mike Perry wrote: I would certainly be ready to part with my hard earned shekels for a service such as Neal is suggesting, however it would be even better if such a service also included fixes for "non security" bugs found after the product release, and not just more "interesting" versions. I would be willing to pay a subscription fee just for the benefit of running Cooker! Right now I feel guilty since I'm not financially supporting Mandrake. Buying a copy in a local computer store supports the distributor and the store a lot more than it does Mandrake, and it doesn't give me anything since all the software is older than what I'm already running. If I had a mechanism (online please!) whereby I could give Mandrake $50-100 directly on an annual basis, I would likely do so. -- Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Mike Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would certainly be ready to part with my hard earned shekels for a service such as Neal is suggesting, however it would be even better if such a service also included fixes for "non security" bugs found after the product release, and not just more "interesting" versions. BTW: Would I be correct in assuming that the new glibc is the main culprit for incompatibility between Cooker and 7.2, and once we move past this, at least for a little while subsequent Cookers will be more compatible with subsequent releases? actually the glibc are binary compatible, thus a --nodeps would probably make the packages work. but well it's --nodeps, it's not really the best thing to do. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Ed Wilts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I would be willing to pay a subscription fee just for the benefit of running Cooker! Right now I feel guilty since I'm not financially supporting Mandrake. Buying a copy in a local computer store supports the distributor and the store a lot more than it does Mandrake, and it doesn't give me anything since all the software is older than what I'm already running. If I had a mechanism (online please!) whereby I could give Mandrake $50-100 directly on an annual basis, I would likely do so. If you want, you can donate some money to MandrakeSoft. (I am serious). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Guillaume answered: Neal Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain "interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? This is currently under question here at MandrakeSoft :-). I think it's clear, to me at least, that a small company cannot possibly stay in business if they've got too much legacy support. However, I do understand the point of backporting things to the current release. Mandrake obviously does this with the security releases. I have gotten back ports to my 7.1 system for some things. I think the biggest problem is that many people are beginning to think cooker is a place to stay on the leading edge. But cooker is really the bleeding edge, not the leading edge. Perhaps a tagline on the bottom of cooker messages reminding everyone that cooker is not stable would be good. Another thought would be to look at the OpenBSD release model. They have three branches. The release branch (the actual CD image), which is frozen when the CD's go to press. The stable branch, which is essentially updates to the release branch. And finally a current branch, which is like cooker. On any given day something in current might be broken. I would probably abandon the stable updates on the old branch after a new release. In other words, I probably would *NOT* do any backports on a stable branch to 7.1. (I probably would continue security releases on 7.1 for a while. I would consider security releases for 12 months after the branch is retired, but that may be too expensive.) And I would keep hammering to people that cooker is *NOT* stable. Use it at your own risk. Michael
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Thursday 21 December 2000 11:58, Guillaume Cottenceau ???: | Neal Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: |I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain |"interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I |could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? |To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that |Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on |the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? | | This is currently under question here at MandrakeSoft :-). I hope not for Cooker? Otherwise, it will be really hard to achieve *stability* What I like in Mandrake at a moment, that it runs out-of-the-box. (just with few small exceptions :-) Idea of _paid_ service is great, but do you understand that, in this case, customer will not *ask*, but *require* QUALITY? And missing support for something can result in legal suites, or long and painful product returns/reimbursements. /I just can't imagine you put KDE 2.x, Gnome 1.x/2.x or XFree86 in such package; they all are *developing* versions; or, you are going to stick to Mandrake kernel + Apache? by the way, it's not bad. If you can make your warranty on *working on my equipment* Apache and Sendmail - there is a reason to pay you for this; but, AFAIK, SendMail have now commercial version, which is supposed to be coverd under warranty/tech support... And you need a lot of technical support stuff to cover this. And prompted response time... / -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thursday 21 December 2000 11:58, Guillaume Cottenceau ???: | Neal Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: |I'd pay a subscription fee for a service that backported certain |"interesting" packages from cooker to the release version if it meant I |could see them in say, maybe a month of release time. Why pay money? |To encourage speedy releases, and to benifit from the integration that |Mandrake does well with all of the other software packages installed on |the system. Does Mandrake offer a service like this? | | This is currently under question here at MandrakeSoft :-). I hope not for Cooker? Otherwise, it will be really hard to achieve *stability* What I like in Mandrake at a moment, that it runs out-of-the-box. (just with few small exceptions :-) Idea of _paid_ service is great, but do you understand that, in this case, customer will not *ask*, but *require* QUALITY? Yes. This would be probably something like a fee to select your favorites apps and receive them either by snailmail on cdrom's or by the net for latest stable release. They would of course be fully tested (but this require some more resources here). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Ok this does seem dumb to me. Mandrake provide there distro on the web so if you want to update it you can just download the distro and select update on the installer. They also provide security updates which is more than some places. That is support. If Mandrake provided updated packages for all the different version they had made then there would be no reason to by the next version and so mandrake would just go belly up and we don't want that. Also alot of the packages (non-system packages like the kernel) from the cooker do work on other versions you jusst need the SRPM. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "Vincent Danen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 On Wed Dec 20, 2000 at 11:47:16PM +0100, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) Don't forget 6.0... we still support it for security updates. Yep, sorry vincent, i was not sure for our very old products. This is more arguments for me :-). I thought it might be. =) And more arguments for me, too, because I would end up doing most of this back-porting I'm sure (and I just don't have the time to do it). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net 1024D/FE6F2AFD 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD - Danen Consulting Serviceswww.danen.net, www.freezer-burn.org - MandrakeSoft, Inc. Security www.linux-mandrake.com Current Linux uptime: 1 day 16 hours 33 minutes.
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
I might suggest a change in topic... Or perhaps a new mailing list for rants such as this. For those of you that have problems upgrading your packages, and especially for the ones that are starting to compare MandrakeSoft so a certain large monopoly type "business" let me point out one simple fact. Since the dawn of computers it has been the end users responsibilty to upgrade their software as they see fit. Just because that other company that has the initials MS creates a whole horde of software and keeps it updated doesn't mean this is the same situation. Microsoft does not provide upgrades for any other software other than their own, and I would challenge you to find a mailing list allowing you to help them work out bugs in current developemental releases. Or maybe you could ask them to see a bit of their code that you think might be buggy.. My point is Mandrake does a great job keeping their new releases current, and I dare say the most feature packed of any linux. If there is a program that you happen to love dearly and want to upgrade as new versions become available, why not talk to the programmer that created it and ask them to build Mandrake compatible RPMs if you are not familiar enough with the system to compile it yourself. Unlike the Windows closed source environment, the openess of the linux community allows for almost daily upgrades to many of the most popular programs. On a second note, Cooker is developemental and thus, not stable. Things DO break when you're working out bugs in code and getting everything to mesh together into one very nice and stable distribution. If you want to help, change your system over to the latest cooker and run through your computer as you normall would, taking notes of any problems. As for your upgrading packages on your 7.2 system, rpmfind.net would be the place to go. I would suggest for performance reasons you download the src.rpm and rebuild it. I doubt most end users would even want to wade through all the packages if Mandrake did provide the most current version of every package included with their distribution. =) - Tim McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Thursday 21 December 2000 15:05, ?? : | Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || || This is currently under question here at MandrakeSoft :-). | |I hope not for Cooker? |Otherwise, it will be really hard to achieve *stability* |What I like in Mandrake at a moment, that it runs out-of-the-box. |(just with few small exceptions :-) | |Idea of _paid_ service is great, but do you understand that, in this |case, customer will not *ask*, but *require* QUALITY? | | Yes. | | This would be probably something like a fee to select your favorites apps | and receive them either by snailmail on cdrom's or by the net for latest | stable release. | | They would of course be fully tested (but this require some more | resources here). With CD-ROM delivery, it would be nice. I vote for it. -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Thursday 21 December 2000 12:41, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:04, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. This is FAR from everything... You're welcomed to quit this mailing list and go somewhere where people approach the infinity better than us.. Are you telling me that I can't come here and ask questions about stuff I believe should be done in another way? And btw. infinity doesn't exist ;) -- \ Christian A Strømmen / \ Number1/NumeroUno @ Undernet - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ Web: www.realityx.net - Cell: +47 911 43 948 / Live your life by your dreams, not by the limits of reality...
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday 21 December 2000 12:41, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:04, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. This is FAR from everything... You're welcomed to quit this mailing list and go somewhere where people approach the infinity better than us.. Are you telling me that I can't come here and ask questions about stuff I believe should be done in another way? And btw. infinity doesn't exist ;) Re-read my sentence: I answer to you by proposing a solution, I don't forbid you to post nor ask questions. Concerning infinity, we met RMS yesterday and I can assure you that it has the taste of infinity.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
RE: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tim McKenzie I might suggest a change in topic... Or perhaps a new mailing list for rants such as this. For those of you that have problems upgrading your packages, and especially for the ones that are starting to compare MandrakeSoft so a certain large monopoly type "business" let me point out one simple fact. Since the dawn of computers it has been the end users responsibilty to upgrade their software as they see fit. And therein lies the problem with trying to bring Linux into the fold of consumer Operating Systems. The same problem that makes Microsofts offerings less than stable. Its the 'P' in 'PC' And I don't mean 'Political' ;) The concept of the 'Personal Computer' where the user is assumed to own the machine and can therefore do anything to it that they want to. It'll all end in tears!
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Ed Wilts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I would be willing to pay a subscription fee just for the benefit of running Cooker! Right now I feel guilty since I'm not financially supporting Mandrake. Buying a copy in a local computer store supports the distributor and the store a lot more than it does Mandrake, and it doesn't give me anything since all the software is older than what I'm already running. If I had a mechanism (online please!) whereby I could give Mandrake $50-100 directly on an annual basis, I would likely do so. If you want, you can donate some money to MandrakeSoft. (I am serious). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/ How? -- Arnold Troeger Unocal Thailand Phone: 011-66-2-545-5456 5th Floor, Tower 3, SCB Park Plaza FAX:011-66-2-545-5374 19 Ratchadapisek Road, Chatuchak Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bangkok 10900, Thailand "Microsoft Windows: for when your machine is just too fast"
RE: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
I liked the system of Walnut, where you could subscribe for several years to slackware or other CDs. I think Mandrake should do that online, where you receive automatically the new version of Mandrake in the post. Nothing Fancy just the CDs in an envelope. For us couch potatoes or people who don't have a convenient store nearby, you subscribe online to Mandrake and/or Mandrake cooker for 2 years, which will give you 2-3 versions of Mandrake. Cheers. Franck Martin Database Development Officer SOPAC South Pacific Applied Geoscience Commission Fiji E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: http://www.sopac.org/ This e-mail is intended for its recipients only. Do not forward this e-mail without approval. The views expressed in this e-mail may not be necessarily the views of SOPAC. -Original Message- From: Arnold Troeger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, 22 December 2000 12:38 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Ed Wilts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I would be willing to pay a subscription fee just for the benefit of running Cooker! Right now I feel guilty since I'm not financially supporting Mandrake. Buying a copy in a local computer store supports the distributor and the store a lot more than it does Mandrake, and it doesn't give me anything since all the software is older than what I'm already running. If I had a mechanism (online please!) whereby I could give Mandrake $50-100 directly on an annual basis, I would likely do so. If you want, you can donate some money to MandrakeSoft. (I am serious). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/ How? -- Arnold Troeger Unocal Thailand Phone: 011-66-2-545-5456 5th Floor, Tower 3, SCB Park Plaza FAX:011-66-2-545-5374 19 Ratchadapisek Road, Chatuchak Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bangkok 10900, Thailand "Microsoft Windows: for when your machine is just too fast"
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Not only that, with some patience and reading of ..oh what maybe mandrakeuser.org one can download the rpms one needs. I am on 7.2 with 4.0.2 and its working perfectly. On Thursday 21 December 2000 06:53 am, you wrote: Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I'm not arguing about this. What I'm arguing about is that Mandrake seems to "refuse" to release packages to the customers, while almost every other distribution out there does this. I'm not so sure that every other distribution out there has yet stuff like XFree 4.0.2 or rpm 4. This is starting to remind me more and more about another software company without mentioning names.. Pretty fun that from time to time a lamer comes on that list and claim that we're doing more and more like Microsoft. This sort of closes my interest for that discussion.
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
"Godin, Paul" wrote: XFree 4.0.2 is out, will it be incorporated in cooker. Paul Godin Too late! :) Its already there. -- - Antony Suter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "Examiner" openpgp:71ADFC87 - "...to condense fact from the vapor of nuance."
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Godin, Paul") writes:
XFree 4.0.2 is out, will it be incorporated in cooker.
First, could you please configure your Outlook to not send HTML on
this list..
Second, XF 4.0.2 has been uploaded earlier today by Fred Lepied..
--
Frédéric Crozat
MandrakeSoft
RE: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Title: RE: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 XFree 4.0.2 is out, will it be incorporated in cooker. First, could you please configure your Outlook to not send HTML on this list.. DONE Second, XF 4.0.2 has been uploaded earlier today by Fred Lepied.. Already advised. -- Frédéric Crozat MandrakeSoft
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
BTW, it may be a good idea to update the ATI and fb stuff from CVS. Keith Packard made some hacks that allows the new Render extension to be run on ATI Mach 64 cards, which are pretty popular. It had to happen right after 4.0.2 because of the freeze. This extension allows users to use antialiased fonts with the newer KDE/Qt's :) On Wednesday 20 December 2000 10:45 am, you wrote: "Godin, Paul" wrote: XFree 4.0.2 is out, will it be incorporated in cooker. Paul Godin Too late! :) Its already there. -- - Antony Suter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "Examiner" openpgp:71ADFC87 - "...to condense fact from the vapor of nuance."
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Wednesday 20 December 2000 17:06, Godin, Paul wrote: XFree 4.0.2 is out, will it be incorporated in cooker. Paul Godin What's up with Mandrake??? Why is EVERYTHING added to cooker and not to normal updates? The use of MandrakeUpdate seems to be quite unnecessary since Mandrake doesn't add stuff to it.. Everything seems to be in development updates and for glibc 2.2. I'm seriously wanting to start a discussion here to get this clared up, if I seem a bit aggetated please excuse me, I'm just starting to get feed up about this. -- \ Christian A Strømmen / \ Number1/NumeroUno @ Undernet - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ Web: www.realityx.net - Cell: +47 911 43 948 / Live your life by your dreams, not by the limits of reality...
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
- Original Message - From: "Guillaume Cottenceau" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Godin, Paul" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 We can't do everything. We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) - backporting the specfiles that have changed with newer versions of RPM - troubleshooting the dependency problems, thus making other packages Currently we chose to not put resources into doing that sort of stuff. Think two minutes: what would you like to see in the updates? obviously, for example kde-2, gnome-1.2, xmms-1.2.4, rpm-4, XFree-4, for older distribs such as 7.0. This is an *enormous* amount of work, and, come on, we release everything on the web very conveniently, so why not upgrading or installing the 7.2.. Yes, it's a lot of work, but it gives the impression that you don't support your product in the way a consumer understands support. It's also an argument for not having so many point releases and further illustrates that Linux is really still in development. None of this is good from an advocacy viewpoint, but it is the way "business is done". Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's up with Mandrake??? Why is EVERYTHING added to cooker and not to normal updates? The use of MandrakeUpdate seems to be quite unnecessary since Mandrake doesn't add stuff to it.. Everything seems to be in development updates and for glibc 2.2. We can't do everything. Currently we chose to not put resources into doing that sort of stuff. *nod* yes, i can see that backporting everything to play nicely with older versions of LM would be a living nightmare. I enjoy the cookers rapid induction and patching of new software, and I wouldnt want the Mandrake developers quagmired in other jobs. I personally use the cooker myself - even on semi-production machines (moms comp and such, heh) My only gripe here is that the cooker can be difficult at times. Look at the recent problems with 'kernel too old' from installing the recent glibc2 package. The BM and new lib policies have also kept me on my toes. Id imagine it would be hard to make _every_ package in the cooker be in sync with each other - and be safe to install on any machine. Id personally recommend the cooker to everyone - if not for the very small chance that they could install something in some order that totally hoses their machine. I would greatly love to see a cooker advisories web page. Lists of recent cooker updates, lists of obsolete and 'outstanding' packages (where the package or its dependencies are not up to date with the rest of the system - an example would be the glibc 2.2 packages before the locales stuff was brought up to speed), a simple cooker forum, a freshmeat-like changelog of new packages, and whatever else works. Another nice idea would be to have a searchable 'rpm -q' database, so people could get information about packages and files on a perfectly normal cooker machine. Next time you try to install a package, and it says libf00baz.so.1.4-3 is needed, you could enter that into the web page and ask it what rpm it belongs to. (it sorta doesnt work if you _dont_ have the package already installed - im sure many people are going to hit me over the head with rpm -qf) Your thoughts? Jason
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed Dec 20, 2000 at 10:04:24PM +0100, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) Don't forget 6.0... we still support it for security updates. Yep, sorry vincent, i was not sure for our very old products. This is more arguments for me :-). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
"Hoyt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Yes, it's a lot of work, but it gives the impression that you don't support your product in the way a consumer understands support. It's also an argument for not having so many point releases and further illustrates that Linux is really still in development. None of this is good from an advocacy viewpoint, but it is the way "business is done". I have several arguments to oppose to that: - we are not in the usual business, a "consumer" is to be understood differently, because some of them did not pay us any direct money for using our products (the downloads) so we feel less stressed to fit their direct needs (nvidia and aureal drivers are another good example of what "consumers" deadly want) ; also, the price of our product is very very low compared to the products that get this support ; for example Microsoft don't provide free (in the sense of free of price) updates for anything (except very strategis things like Internet Explorer where their aim is to kill the opponents not to make a normal living from the product) - supporting our product can be understood differently: whenever you bought or donwloaded any version, you are free to download a more recent version to have the updates; in that sense, we do support our products because anyone can benefit from the latest stuff at no cost - in our domain, the importance of keeping in touch with latest stuff is very very important, so the balance between putting resource in that and in the rest is different -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Wed Dec 20, 2000 at 11:47:16PM +0100, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) Don't forget 6.0... we still support it for security updates. Yep, sorry vincent, i was not sure for our very old products. This is more arguments for me :-). I thought it might be. =) And more arguments for me, too, because I would end up doing most of this back-porting I'm sure (and I just don't have the time to do it). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net 1024D/FE6F2AFD 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD - Danen Consulting Serviceswww.danen.net, www.freezer-burn.org - MandrakeSoft, Inc. Security www.linux-mandrake.com Current Linux uptime: 1 day 16 hours 33 minutes.
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:04, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. This is FAR from everything... We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) - backporting the specfiles that have changed with newer versions of RPM - troubleshooting the dependency problems, thus making other packages Think two minutes: what would you like to see in the updates? obviously, for example kde-2, gnome-1.2, xmms-1.2.4, rpm-4, XFree-4, for older distribs such as 7.0. This is an *enormous* amount of work, and, come on, we release everything on the web very conveniently, so why not upgrading or installing the 7.2.. It's 7.2 I'm talking about!!! So what you're saying is that if I want to upgrade my system to the latest stable releases of products, and I want to use my distribtion-companies own rpm I have to use a unstable build of the whole dis (cooker, and yes, it is unstable!). This is bullshit, think about it. In one way you're saying that we (the customers) should install an MDK, never upgrade anything except if it's a security upgrade, and never get any new version of a program (even when the new version are a lot more stable) except for when the next release of the distribution is out... ? -- \ Christian A Strømmen / \ Number1/NumeroUno @ Undernet - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ Web: www.realityx.net - Cell: +47 911 43 948 / Live your life by your dreams, not by the limits of reality...
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:53, you wrote: On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:04, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. This is FAR from everything... We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) - backporting the specfiles that have changed with newer versions of RPM - troubleshooting the dependency problems, thus making other packages Think two minutes: what would you like to see in the updates? obviously, for example kde-2, gnome-1.2, xmms-1.2.4, rpm-4, XFree-4, for older distribs such as 7.0. This is an *enormous* amount of work, and, come on, we release everything on the web very conveniently, so why not upgrading or installing the 7.2.. It's 7.2 I'm talking about!!! So what you're saying is that if I want to upgrade my system to the latest stable releases of products, and I want to use my distribtion-companies own rpm I have to use a unstable build of the whole dis (cooker, and yes, it is unstable!). This is bullshit, think about it. In my opinion, they have thought about it. Now it's time for YOU to think about it. A Mandrake Linux release is a tested, integrated release. You're making the silly assumption that each package is totally independent, and this is incorrect (bullshit using your terminology). The new glibc is also a stable release, but they can't release it for 7.2 without upgrading the rest of the packages. XFree also doesn't stand alone - look at all the other packages that are dependent on X! What Mandrake is saying is that they (and us) are testing a new collection of packages, and if all tests ok, we can expect 4.0.2 to be in the NEXT release. All the great dependency failures we report regularly, and bugs in packaging are all fixed before the final release goes out.At what point do you consider 4.0.2 stable? It's JUST hit Cooker! Just because the developer considers it stable doesn't mean it is. There may be interactions with other packages that would prevent it working properly in certain environments. That's what testing is all about. In many cases, you can't upgrade one package without also updating a bunch of others, even though it appears to be a single package (rpm is a good, simple example - I suspect at least a dozen packages rely on it or other packages that in turn rely on rpm). Have I seen code that is claimed to be bug-free and considerably better and more stable than production code, yet caused systems to not boot? Yup, and not only Linux software gets credit for this. In no way is Mandrake preventing you from upgrading individual packages based on your individual needs. Mandrake sold (or gave) you a copy of 7.2 that includes specific versions of packages. You're then responsible for your own testing and integration. They are making available, at no charge, security fixes for those packages in many of there current (and not so current) releases. -- Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
On Thursday 21 December 2000 05:34, Ed Wilts wrote: In my opinion, they have thought about it. Now it's time for YOU to think about it. A Mandrake Linux release is a tested, integrated release. You're making the silly assumption that each package is totally independent, and this is incorrect (bullshit using your terminology). The new glibc is also a stable release, but they can't release it for 7.2 without upgrading the rest of the packages. XFree also doesn't stand alone - look at all the other packages that are dependent on X! A lot of packages aren't dependent on other packages, take kde for example, an upgrade in the 2.*.* series isn't dependent on other stuff, it all uses the same qt-libs and so on. Saying that they shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't give us newer packages cause there's so much dependent on each package is using my terminology ;) bullshit. A lot of other distributions do this, Suse, Red Hat, Debian, and those are just the ones that I know do this, there's probably more of them.. What Mandrake is saying is that they (and us) are testing a new collection of packages, and if all tests ok, we can expect 4.0.2 to be in the NEXT release. All the great dependency failures we report regularly, and bugs in packaging are all fixed before the final release goes out.At what point do you consider 4.0.2 stable? It's JUST hit Cooker! Just because the developer considers it stable doesn't mean it is. There may be interactions with other packages that would prevent it working properly in certain environments. That's what testing is all about. In many cases, you can't upgrade one package without also updating a bunch of others, even though it appears to be a single package (rpm is a good, simple example - I suspect at least a dozen packages rely on it or other packages that in turn rely on rpm). Now you're just repeating what I've said before, we seem to agree to a certain point here, it's just that we look at it with different views. I'm saying that new packages (after a bit testing) should be available as soon as possible for the latest stable distribution. Take kde 2.0.1 for example, on the release date there were rpms for almost all distributions except Mandrake. The packages were in the correct dirs, but were removed quickly with a README file that stated that Mandrake would not release 2.0.1 packages for 7.2 because they already had cvs packages of 2.1.0 available for cooker. Are you serious in saying that this is the correct way to do this? Have I seen code that is claimed to be bug-free and considerably better and more stable than production code, yet caused systems to not boot? Yup, and not only Linux software gets credit for this. In no way is Mandrake preventing you from upgrading individual packages based on your individual needs. Mandrake sold (or gave) you a copy of 7.2 that includes specific versions of packages. You're then responsible for your own testing and integration. They are making available, at no charge, security fixes for those packages in many of there current (and not so current) releases. I'm not arguing about this. What I'm arguing about is that Mandrake seems to "refuse" to release packages to the customers, while almost every other distribution out there does this. This is starting to remind me more and more about another software company without mentioning names.. -- \ Christian A Strømmen / \ Number1/NumeroUno @ Undernet - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ Web: www.realityx.net - Cell: +47 911 43 948 / Live your life by your dreams, not by the limits of reality...
Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2
Even though I run cooker, I completely agree with this. I understand you don't want to provide updates for all previous versions of mandrake, but software like kde2.1, gnome 1.2, kernel 2.4, and xfree 4.0.2 should be provided to the most current STABLE version of the software. - Original Message - From: "Christian A Strømmen [Number1/NumeroUno]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Guillaume Cottenceau" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Godin, Paul" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Xfree 4.0.2 On Wednesday 20 December 2000 22:04, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: We can't do everything. This is FAR from everything... We do use MandrakeUpdate for security updates. It already costs resources because changing something means: - doing it for a number of old distribs (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, 6.1) - backporting the specfiles that have changed with newer versions of RPM - troubleshooting the dependency problems, thus making other packages Think two minutes: what would you like to see in the updates? obviously, for example kde-2, gnome-1.2, xmms-1.2.4, rpm-4, XFree-4, for older distribs such as 7.0. This is an *enormous* amount of work, and, come on, we release everything on the web very conveniently, so why not upgrading or installing the 7.2.. It's 7.2 I'm talking about!!! So what you're saying is that if I want to upgrade my system to the latest stable releases of products, and I want to use my distribtion-companies own rpm I have to use a unstable build of the whole dis (cooker, and yes, it is unstable!). This is bullshit, think about it. In one way you're saying that we (the customers) should install an MDK, never upgrade anything except if it's a security upgrade, and never get any new version of a program (even when the new version are a lot more stable) except for when the next release of the distribution is out... ? -- \ Christian A Strømmen / \ Number1/NumeroUno @ Undernet - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ Web: www.realityx.net - Cell: +47 911 43 948 / Live your life by your dreams, not by the limits of reality...
