Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Additionally, the meeting software needs to work well for everyone, pretty much anywhere in the world. The coreboot community is an amazingly diverse group. So the meeting method needs to have a way to work well in pretty much any OS you can think of, or there needs to be an alternate method of connection - like a telephone bridge. However, as I said in my last email, I'm not interested in changing again right now. We just went through an extensive evaluation process roughly 5 months ago, and we picked bluejeans. If someone wants to help us evaluate tools again in November, that would be the time. Until then, let's stick with bluejeans for the community meeting. Let's stop second guessing our decisions every few months. Since it seems like people missed my last post about this, here's the link: https://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2017-March/083582.html Martin On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, ron minnich wrote: > Nobody is stopping anyone from implementing and letting us try something > open. I think it's great. I would love to be able to use it. > > But some rules apply: > > o a lot of us have full time jobs and (in my case at least) a skill set that > does not include competence/interest in hacking on meeting software. It has > to work for me as EASILY as what we are using today. > > o it has to work at least as WELL as what we're using today. So far, every > single open source alternative has not come close to meeting that standard. > > o And, to reiterate, no single points of failure. It seems to me that > anything that depends on one person providing 24x7 availability has a > single point of failure by definition. And, in at least one case, we went to > have a meeting and the (non-redundant) person running the (non-redundant) > server connected to the (non-redundant) network was not around. No meeting > occurred. That's a failure. > > > > > -- > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Nobody is stopping anyone from implementing and letting us try something open. I think it's great. I would love to be able to use it. But some rules apply: o a lot of us have full time jobs and (in my case at least) a skill set that does not include competence/interest in hacking on meeting software. It has to work for me as EASILY as what we are using today. o it has to work at least as WELL as what we're using today. So far, every single open source alternative has not come close to meeting that standard. o And, to reiterate, no single points of failure. It seems to me that anything that depends on one person providing 24x7 availability has a single point of failure by definition. And, in at least one case, we went to have a meeting and the (non-redundant) person running the (non-redundant) server connected to the (non-redundant) network was not around. No meeting occurred. That's a failure. -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Stefan Reinauer wrote: > > > > I never tried the web interface. > > > > > > We did, it failed us. > > > > What problems did people have with mumble-web, and where was the > > websockets server running, relative to the mumble server? > > It was actually your mumble server. I didn't have mumble-web. I asked about the web interface, which has failed us at some point, as Patrick wrote. > We used it for one or two meetings, and the sound was choppy and it > was basically impossible to have a conversation. I knew that my mumble server was used, but this feedback only reaches me now. Thanks for letting me know! Ron once said something completely different; that he couldn't run the (native) client software on his ChromeOS system. That made me interested in getting feedback from mumble-web. Since I use the server for various meetings with great success I'm interested in investigating what caused the issues for us in coreboot. If anyone can remember having problems and would like to do some testing with me at some point then please get in touch off-list. Thanks! ttu...@codeaurora.org wrote: > Just because I work with OSS doesn't automatically make me a zealot > for OSS as the only way to go. Of course not; it's just the best way to go. > think of the contribution to Coreboot source code this energy could > generate instead of spending it on fixing a problem that doesn't > need fixing? I think it's an important problem. I agree with Stefan that it's not a problem for the coreboot community, but I want to not lose our user experience. ron minnich wrote: > Unfortunately, the free software meeting systems have not worked out. Suboptimal solutions need to be re-evaluated, once every few years seems easy. > It can't depend on one person managing the server, or the connection, > or the setup. I think a one person argument is silly, but I agree with the general argument about avoiding single points of failure. > portability in the Linux world seems to mean "works on Ubuntu AND Arch". Daring extrapolation. Sorry that you've had such bad experience. > We have to see it work everywhere. A big part of which is to be active. It makes no sense to push a burden of demonstration for "every possible client" to a single point; that's setting up for failure and sending the message that nothing should improve. > There's also an issue with the premise: .. > What does it really mean To keep trying. //Peter -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Le 18/03/2017 00:47, Stefan Reinauer a écrit : > * taii...@gmx.com [170317 23:35]: >> I believe it needs fixing - It is a philosophical issue, I mean you have to >> draw the line or you get the slippery slope for "just a little non-free here >> for convenience just this once" has lead to most of the community thinking >> that a system with 100% blobbed hw init is "free firmware" (coreboot just >> being a wrapper shim loader for FSP in that case) or that linux drivers with >> a binary blob are "open source drivers". >> It is a matter of pride. >> >> The linux communities quiet acceptance of things like ME/PSP (ex: why don't >> sysadmins say no and buy POWER?) - is because of philosophy-slacking. > > Nothing about this is quiet. We have been actively working with hardware > vendors to open up as much stuff as possible, for a good two decades > now. > > The reason is not philosophy-slacking. Because philosophy makes you feel > righteous, but it does not get any work done. Instead of having this > discussion (and making hundreds of people read it) this community could > spend the same time making coreboot better and mentoring the corporate > community members. > > The sooner we get away from an "us vs them" mentality, the faster we can > be actually changing things. Sorry to interrupt. I wanted to pass a word. I agree that the us vs them mentality has to end. Just a thing about philosophy. I believe that it makes you think. If you build a road without a plan, where are you going ? This is just a balance that everyone has to make. Rushing leads nowhere either. > > Stefan > > I wish you all good continuation. Freely BERNARD signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
* Peter Stuge [170317 14:27]: > Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > > 2017-03-17 13:17 GMT+01:00 Dumitru Ursu : > > > I never tried the web interface. > > > > We did, it failed us. > > I wish someone would have mentioned that sooner. > > What problems did people have with mumble-web, and where was the > websockets server running, relative to the mumble server? It was actually your mumble server. We used it for one or two meetings, and the sound was choppy and it was basically impossible to have a conversation. Stefan > > //Peter > > -- > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot > -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
* taii...@gmx.com [170317 23:35]: > I believe it needs fixing - It is a philosophical issue, I mean you have to > draw the line or you get the slippery slope for "just a little non-free here > for convenience just this once" has lead to most of the community thinking > that a system with 100% blobbed hw init is "free firmware" (coreboot just > being a wrapper shim loader for FSP in that case) or that linux drivers with > a binary blob are "open source drivers". > It is a matter of pride. > > The linux communities quiet acceptance of things like ME/PSP (ex: why don't > sysadmins say no and buy POWER?) - is because of philosophy-slacking. Nothing about this is quiet. We have been actively working with hardware vendors to open up as much stuff as possible, for a good two decades now. The reason is not philosophy-slacking. Because philosophy makes you feel righteous, but it does not get any work done. Instead of having this discussion (and making hundreds of people read it) this community could spend the same time making coreboot better and mentoring the corporate community members. The sooner we get away from an "us vs them" mentality, the faster we can be actually changing things. Stefan -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
* Patrick Georgi via coreboot [170317 16:05]: > 2017-03-17 15:50 GMT+01:00 Juliana Rodrigues : > > that I know uses jitsi: https://meet.jit.si > > It's MIT, but works very well. > Thanks for the pointer. > > We already tried jitsi, but I think without the bridge service (which > only seems to exist for about a year). > So, something to re-evaluate, but the last time we tried "works very > well" was the opposite of our experience due to bandwidth > requirements. To shed some light on this, there are several types of issues we have encountered with this sort of software: - some software works really great for 1:1 video conferencing but does not scale when you are trying to have 15-20 people on a call. So unless you ran 20 people meetings successfully, "It works very well" might just cover a really different use case. - The software has to work on a variety of misconfigured (ahem) open source OSes and distributions, mainly by knowing about quirks of the various OSes / distributions and working around them. We have tried a number of solutions that ended up with half of the people not hearing the other half for various reasons. If you folks are interested in working on deploying these types of systems or fixing these sorts of issues, please, I advise you to join one of the open source projects that aims at creating video / audio conferencing software in the free software realm. These projects are in desperate need of great engineers to make them usable for cross planet conferencing on a larger (10-20ppl) scale. Do we want to solve these problems in the coreboot project, or on the coreboot mailing list? No. This project is all about booting computers. So as others here have mentioned, please save your (and everybody elses) time and energy for exactly that. > Patrick > (note to all so I don't have to sound like a grumpy, broken record: Is > it FOSS and reasonably popular? Then it's rather likely that we > already tried it) Or, as a dear friend of mine likes to say: This ain't our first rodeo :-) All the best, Stefan -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 3:36 PM taii...@gmx.com wrote: > The linux communities quiet acceptance of things like ME/PSP (ex: why > don't sysadmins say no and buy POWER?) - is because of philosophy-slacking. > > you think it was quiet? It's not been quiet at all. It has probably just occurred in places you were not involved in. Anyway, if you can provide a system we can use that addresses the observed problems I mentioned, that's great, and we can take a look. But one person providing SIP on one server on a non-redundant network infrastructure is not nearly good enough. -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
On 03/17/2017 10:25 AM, ttu...@codeaurora.org wrote: I'm sorry, I have to contribute at this point. I got started with OSS in 2000 when Monta Vista Software (anybody remember HardHat Linux?) hired me as a FAE. I was teamed with a salesperson and we were trying to close business selling an embedded Linux distribution. Every 6 months or so we would have a sales meeting somewhere and engineering would share with us the latest product development news, etc. Ahead of one of these meetings I happened to be in headquarters (Santa Clara, CA) and remember very clearly the happy face of this engineering manager who had just "wasted" (my opinion) 3-5 days generating a presentation slide-deck with OSS (I don't even know if Open Office was available at that time) for the meeting, instead of spending two hours doing same presentation with Powerpoint. Just because I work with OSS doesn't automatically make me a zealot for OSS as the only way to go. I choose the correct tool to get the job done. I always hope for an OSS option, but to this day, Outlook is the only product Micro$oft got right and I will choose it over any of the OSS options I have tried as an email client. I will leave with, think of the contribution to Coreboot source code this energy could generate instead of spending it on fixing a problem that doesn't need fixing? Cheers, T.mike I am a sysadmin not a programmer, so this is my department. I believe it needs fixing - It is a philosophical issue, I mean you have to draw the line or you get the slippery slope for "just a little non-free here for convenience just this once" has lead to most of the community thinking that a system with 100% blobbed hw init is "free firmware" (coreboot just being a wrapper shim loader for FSP in that case) or that linux drivers with a binary blob are "open source drivers". It is a matter of pride. The linux communities quiet acceptance of things like ME/PSP (ex: why don't sysadmins say no and buy POWER?) - is because of philosophy-slacking. -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
This discussion comes up every few years, and it quickly diverges into discussion of a long list of candidate systems. This current thread is no exception. FWIW, we've tried many of them. Unfortunately, the free software meeting systems have not worked out. For any system to work, there are a few properties it must have: 1. It can't depend on one person managing the server, or the connection, or the setup. I.e., it can't have a single point of failure. People have kindly offered to set up SIP servers, many times, and we even used them a few times, but the problem is that the people who set up the server must be available for each and every meeting, from t = 0 to infinity, or it doesn't work. We've been here before, and it's really frustrating to get to the meeting time and find out the one person who is needed to make it work is not reachable. It is really, really easy to be there once or twice to make the meeting. Being there, without fail, once a week is a lot harder than it seems at first. 2. The software has to work for every possible client, and I do mean all. People tend to fall into the "well it works on *my* laptop" trap very easily. This is particularly problematical with systems that start on Linux, since portability in the Linux world seems to mean "works on Ubuntu AND Arch". There are a lot of us who use non-free software all the time (this is being typed on a mac pro) because the free software doesn't work as well. So we need systems that work for ios, android, osx, linux laptops in all their many variations, ... and the common experience with all these alternative meeting systems is that they are just not good enough to span that space. Yes, they should work. And if they did, we would have been using them since 2006, when this issue first came up. Now you can argue with me that the system you are advocating works on all those platforms, but I won't believe it until I see it. We've had people advocate some platforms over the years, with the claim that they worked everywhere, only to find out the claim had not been tested -- it's very common to hear: "well they SAID it worked everywhere ... wow ... we didn't know it wouldn't work on your x". It's not enough to say "works everywhere." We have to see it work everywhere. 3. Related to (1), it goes without saying, but any meeting system has to be structured and implemented as a scalable, reliable system. It has to not fail easily. This means redundancy in networks, servers, everything. So setting up one SIP server on one network connection is not a viable idea. That's why people run many of these services in clouds: the providers of clouds are pretty good (not perfect!) at providing very reliable services. There's also an issue with the premise: that because coreboot is striving to create free and open software for a single field of use, every single coreboot community activity must use only free and open software. How far does that go? Do we reject people who use iphones to join a meeting? Do we not allow packets to flow via cisco routers? Do we not run meetings on systems with microcode blobs? Are you not allowed to run on a laptop which has binary blobs in the disk controller? What about the OS in Atheros or other WIFI part? What about laptop modems -- do we not allow you to join a meeting if you are on the laptop modem? Or are you just requiring that some very narrow slice of software at the the endpoints be free and open source, while everything between can be proprietary? What does it really mean to say "why don't we use something free and open source?" when we talk about meeting software? You need to define the terms, and specify where it's ok for software to be non-free and non-open-source. Because, inevitably, some of it will be in ways you can't control. thanks ron On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM Iru Cai wrote: Have you tried the Matrix protocol (https://matrix.org) that I mentioned? It supports WebRTC as well as talk with text and files. If you are not satisfied with the existing public servers ( https://www.hello-matrix.net/public_servers.php), you can even host one. On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:05 PM, Patrick Georgi via coreboot < coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote: 2017-03-17 15:50 GMT+01:00 Juliana Rodrigues : > that I know uses jitsi: https://meet.jit.si > It's MIT, but works very well. Thanks for the pointer. We already tried jitsi, but I think without the bridge service (which only seems to exist for about a year). So, something to re-evaluate, but the last time we tried "works very well" was the opposite of our experience due to bandwidth requirements. Patrick (note to all so I don't have to sound like a grumpy, broken record: Is it FOSS and reasonably popular? Then it's rather likely that we already tried it) -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot -- Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.or
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Have you tried the Matrix protocol (https://matrix.org) that I mentioned? It supports WebRTC as well as talk with text and files. If you are not satisfied with the existing public servers ( https://www.hello-matrix.net/public_servers.php), you can even host one. On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:05 PM, Patrick Georgi via coreboot < coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote: > 2017-03-17 15:50 GMT+01:00 Juliana Rodrigues : > > that I know uses jitsi: https://meet.jit.si > > It's MIT, but works very well. > Thanks for the pointer. > > We already tried jitsi, but I think without the bridge service (which > only seems to exist for about a year). > So, something to re-evaluate, but the last time we tried "works very > well" was the opposite of our experience due to bandwidth > requirements. > > > Patrick > (note to all so I don't have to sound like a grumpy, broken record: Is > it FOSS and reasonably popular? Then it's rather likely that we > already tried it) > > -- > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot > -- Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/ -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
2017-03-17 15:50 GMT+01:00 Juliana Rodrigues : > that I know uses jitsi: https://meet.jit.si > It's MIT, but works very well. Thanks for the pointer. We already tried jitsi, but I think without the bridge service (which only seems to exist for about a year). So, something to re-evaluate, but the last time we tried "works very well" was the opposite of our experience due to bandwidth requirements. Patrick (note to all so I don't have to sound like a grumpy, broken record: Is it FOSS and reasonably popular? Then it's rather likely that we already tried it) -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
On 17.03.2017 15:50, Juliana Rodrigues wrote: > Don't know if anyone brought this up yet, but the FOSS communities > that I know uses jitsi: https://meet.jit.si Does it work better on low-end devices than it did a year ago? Back then WebRTC was pretty much unusable in the browsers I tried on a Thinkpad T60, mostly due to CPU limitations. (Admittedly I haven't tried Bluejeans on my T60, so I can't compare the two.) Regards, Carl-Daniel -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Don't know if anyone brought this up yet, but the FOSS communities that I know uses jitsi: https://meet.jit.si It's MIT, but works very well. Em sex, 17 de mar de 2017 às 11:27, escreveu: > On 2017-03-17 06:27, Peter Stuge wrote: > > Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > >> 2017-03-17 13:17 GMT+01:00 Dumitru Ursu : > >> > I never tried the web interface. > >> > >> We did, it failed us. > > > > I wish someone would have mentioned that sooner. > > > > What problems did people have with mumble-web, and where was the > > websockets server running, relative to the mumble server? > > > > > > //Peter > > I'm sorry, I have to contribute at this point. > > I got started with OSS in 2000 when Monta Vista Software (anybody > remember HardHat Linux?) hired me as a FAE. > I was teamed with a salesperson and we were trying to close business > selling an embedded Linux distribution. > Every 6 months or so we would have a sales meeting somewhere and > engineering would share with us the latest product development news, > etc. > > Ahead of one of these meetings I happened to be in headquarters (Santa > Clara, CA) and remember very clearly the happy face of this engineering > manager who had just "wasted" (my opinion) 3-5 days generating a > presentation slide-deck with OSS (I don't even know if Open Office was > available at that time) for the meeting, instead of spending two hours > doing same presentation with Powerpoint. > > Just because I work with OSS doesn't automatically make me a zealot for > OSS as the only way to go. I choose the correct tool to get the job > done. I always hope for an OSS option, but to this day, Outlook is the > only product Micro$oft got right and I will choose it over any of the > OSS options I have tried as an email client. > > I will leave with, think of the contribution to Coreboot source code > this energy could generate instead of spending it on fixing a problem > that doesn't need fixing? > Cheers, > T.mike > > -- > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot > -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
On 2017-03-17 06:27, Peter Stuge wrote: Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: 2017-03-17 13:17 GMT+01:00 Dumitru Ursu : > I never tried the web interface. We did, it failed us. I wish someone would have mentioned that sooner. What problems did people have with mumble-web, and where was the websockets server running, relative to the mumble server? //Peter I'm sorry, I have to contribute at this point. I got started with OSS in 2000 when Monta Vista Software (anybody remember HardHat Linux?) hired me as a FAE. I was teamed with a salesperson and we were trying to close business selling an embedded Linux distribution. Every 6 months or so we would have a sales meeting somewhere and engineering would share with us the latest product development news, etc. Ahead of one of these meetings I happened to be in headquarters (Santa Clara, CA) and remember very clearly the happy face of this engineering manager who had just "wasted" (my opinion) 3-5 days generating a presentation slide-deck with OSS (I don't even know if Open Office was available at that time) for the meeting, instead of spending two hours doing same presentation with Powerpoint. Just because I work with OSS doesn't automatically make me a zealot for OSS as the only way to go. I choose the correct tool to get the job done. I always hope for an OSS option, but to this day, Outlook is the only product Micro$oft got right and I will choose it over any of the OSS options I have tried as an email client. I will leave with, think of the contribution to Coreboot source code this energy could generate instead of spending it on fixing a problem that doesn't need fixing? Cheers, T.mike -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > 2017-03-17 13:17 GMT+01:00 Dumitru Ursu : > > I never tried the web interface. > > We did, it failed us. I wish someone would have mentioned that sooner. What problems did people have with mumble-web, and where was the websockets server running, relative to the mumble server? //Peter -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
2017-03-17 13:17 GMT+01:00 Dumitru Ursu : > Try Mumble - it worked without issues for me, but I never tried the web > interface. We did, it failed us. Patrick -- Google Germany GmbH, ABC-Str. 19, 20354 Hamburg Registergericht und -nummer: Hamburg, HRB 86891, Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg Geschäftsführer: Matthew Scott Sucherman, Paul Terence Manicle -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
On 03/15/2017 04:17 PM, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > I will investigate this further, there are a few foss browser softphones > so I will test them and get back to everyone. Try Mumble - it worked without issues for me, but I never tried the web interface. https://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/3rd_Party_Applications Dima. -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
On 03/14/2017 03:33 AM, Paul Menzel wrote: Dear Taiidan, Am Dienstag, den 14.03.2017, 00:36 -0400 schrieb taii...@gmx.com: Discord is proprietary software, why don't we use something free and open source? 1. Discord is not used anymore. Where did you find this outdated information? https://www.coreboot.org/Coreboot_community_meeting "If you want to install the discord application, feel free to do that." 2. As there were a lot of problems with the connection quality with Discord, a different solution was needed. Currently, BlueJeans is used [1], which is also proprietary, and it works quite well. There should also be some information in the minutes [2]. I would be more than pleased to set up a SIP server or something to that effect (I have only 10mbps upload but I know folks who will give me a VPS if I want one). There are plenty of FOSS softphones for every OS and you can also use a desktop VoIP phone so it would be more convenient. The main requirement is, that it is usable from within a browser, and all major operating systems and browsers are supported, for example with WebRTC, so that people aren’t forced to install anything. BlueJeans also allows to phone in from outside. I always disable WebRTC to avoid security issues. If you have a free solution, that works and let’s the community meeting to work without any issues, *and* you can set it up, I guess we will find some volunteers to test it out. If that works, a switch can be discussed. I will investigate this further, there are a few foss browser softphones so I will test them and get back to everyone. Thanks, Paul [1] https://bluejeans.com/616384323 [2] https://coreboot-meeting.pads.ccc.de/CommunityMeetingTopics? -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
I just found out that there's ring if anyone wants to try that. https://ring.cx/ Le 14/03/2017 08:33, Paul Menzel via coreboot a écrit : > Dear Taiidan, > > > Am Dienstag, den 14.03.2017, 00:36 -0400 schrieb taii...@gmx.com: >> Discord is proprietary software, why don't we use something free and >> open source? > > 1. Discord is not used anymore. Where did you find this outdated > information? > > 2. As there were a lot of problems with the connection quality with > Discord, a different solution was needed. Currently, BlueJeans is used > [1], which is also proprietary, and it works quite well. > > There should also be some information in the minutes [2]. > >> I would be more than pleased to set up a SIP server or something to that >> effect (I have only 10mbps upload but I know folks who will give me a >> VPS if I want one). >> There are plenty of FOSS softphones for every OS and you can also use a >> desktop VoIP phone so it would be more convenient. > > The main requirement is, that it is usable from within a browser, and > all major operating systems and browsers are supported, for example > with WebRTC, so that people aren’t forced to install anything. > BlueJeans also allows to phone in from outside. > > If you have a free solution, that works and let’s the community meeting > to work without any issues, *and* you can set it up, I guess we will > find some volunteers to test it out. If that works, a switch can be > discussed. > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > [1] https://bluejeans.com/616384323 > [2] https://coreboot-meeting.pads.ccc.de/CommunityMeetingTopics? > > > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Dear Taiidan, Am Dienstag, den 14.03.2017, 00:36 -0400 schrieb taii...@gmx.com: > Discord is proprietary software, why don't we use something free and > open source? 1. Discord is not used anymore. Where did you find this outdated information? 2. As there were a lot of problems with the connection quality with Discord, a different solution was needed. Currently, BlueJeans is used [1], which is also proprietary, and it works quite well. There should also be some information in the minutes [2]. > I would be more than pleased to set up a SIP server or something to that > effect (I have only 10mbps upload but I know folks who will give me a > VPS if I want one). > There are plenty of FOSS softphones for every OS and you can also use a > desktop VoIP phone so it would be more convenient. The main requirement is, that it is usable from within a browser, and all major operating systems and browsers are supported, for example with WebRTC, so that people aren’t forced to install anything. BlueJeans also allows to phone in from outside. If you have a free solution, that works and let’s the community meeting to work without any issues, *and* you can set it up, I guess we will find some volunteers to test it out. If that works, a switch can be discussed. Thanks, Paul [1] https://bluejeans.com/616384323 [2] https://coreboot-meeting.pads.ccc.de/CommunityMeetingTopics? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Mainly we're using proprietary software because it works better than the open source alternatives we tried. We wanted to use the open source solutions, and tried a number of options in the months since the CCM started. They all had serious issues with people not being able to hear one another. We used discord for several months, but people kept having to disconnect & reconnect before they could hear people. It got to the point where I was repeating everything that was being said because I was the only one that everyone could hear. We finally settled on bluejeans because it has telephone call in support as a last resort. If we want to try evaluating other options again when our subscription to bluejeans expires, I'm open to that, and we can vote on it in the community meeting like we did when we selected Bluejeans. If anyone wants to participate in the meeting but doesn't want to use the proprietary software, please call in on your phone. Here's the global list of numbers: https://www.bluejeans.com/numbers Background: See this thread from the mailing list: https://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2016-October/082297.html and https://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2016-November/082327.html And see the meeting minutes of the november 10 meeting: https://coreboot-meeting.pads.ccc.de/CommunityMeetingTopic Trying to find a new platform for the coreboot community meeting. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s-lV3yv_fy6Z0AxceF3ZK5rQv7AWodKq6u5P_Y4Ml-4/edit?usp=sharing Mumble: -No web client Hangouts: -Bandwidth issues, -low maximum users (10 for public) Jitsi: -Stability issues? Bluejeans: -no firefox client, -$120 per year, +phone bridge Skype: -It's skype Tox: -no web client Discord: -Web clients don't work well -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
I love Matrix (https://matrix.org) and there are already some public servers (https://www.hello-matrix.net/public_servers.php), including matrixim.cc hosted by me. On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 12:36 PM, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > Discord is proprietary software, why don't we use something free and open > source? > > I would be more than pleased to set up a SIP server or something to that > effect (I have only 10mbps upload but I know folks who will give me a VPS > if I want one). > There are plenty of FOSS softphones for every OS and you can also use a > desktop VoIP phone so it would be more convenient. > > -- > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot > -- Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/ -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Re: [coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
I don't have a vps but I can recommend you some good/cheep ones https://store.vikings.net/libre-hosting-provider-crowdfunding/libre-vps-pre-order I hope it helps Le 14/03/2017 05:36, taii...@gmx.com a écrit : > Discord is proprietary software, why don't we use something free and > open source? > > I would be more than pleased to set up a SIP server or something to that > effect (I have only 10mbps upload but I know folks who will give me a > VPS if I want one). > There are plenty of FOSS softphones for every OS and you can also use a > desktop VoIP phone so it would be more convenient. > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
[coreboot] How come the community meeting is hosted by proprietary software?
Discord is proprietary software, why don't we use something free and open source? I would be more than pleased to set up a SIP server or something to that effect (I have only 10mbps upload but I know folks who will give me a VPS if I want one). There are plenty of FOSS softphones for every OS and you can also use a desktop VoIP phone so it would be more convenient. -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot