[css-d] Question Regarding visibility: hidden; not working

[Douglas Pollock]

I trying to get a left side menu working. The main body of the page is 
simple html pages that are made visible by clicking on the left-side menu 
links. The problem is that the div tags surrounding the page names appears 
to block the visibility: hidden; attribute. The pages should normally be 
hidden until a link is selected.

Can anyone offer a suggestion?

Thank you in advance.

URL:

http://www.ace-golf.com/rangegift/MenuTest/TabbedUI5.php 

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Re: [css-d] expert system for CSS?

[Audra Coldiron]

> 2) what do people think of trying to encode all this data / case 
> studies on this list into some sort of expert system - i am thinking 
> something where you could type in keywords or a description of your 
> problem and the system serves of possible useful info and examples of 
> problems solved?   If there is something out there already, please 
> let me know.   As for the task of programming something like this, it 
> (to me) is more tractable than figuring the behavior of IE5/Win, 
> IE5/Mac, IE6, and IE7    :)

Well... it might not be exactly what you have in mind but we've built a 
CSS wizard that works hand in hand with our CMS.  You don't have to be a 
CSS expert - or web designer, really - to use it.  You just choose the 
layout, and work on certain div's that are pre-defined.  You can't 
change the HTML but you can add to it through hooks if need be.  There 
is also a place to hand code if you prefer that.

It's not perfect, it's a work in progress but it's very flexible.  I do 
all our custom designs with it.   There are still usability issues to 
work out of course.  We designed it for ourselves first but it's been 
great for other people who want to design sites around our system who 
aren't CSS experts.

It you want to check it out you can here: http://karmawizard.com
-- 
Audra Coldiron

Rock-n-Roll Design & Hosting
http://rock-n-roll-design.com

A fresh approach: affordable, attractive websites that you control - 
content and design!  No skills needed: http://karmasites.com .
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Re: [css-d] Horizontal navigation with background image & inheritance problem (Driving me mad)

[david]

Jeroen wrote:

> In general btw i would recommend people to start learning by looking at public
> templates and tweaking it. (Besides of course reading the relevant
> literature ;))

Depends on how you learn. I learn better by building my own from the 
ground up. A full-blown CSS template can be far too complicated for me 
to decipher.

-- 
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: [css-d] expert system for CSS?

[Jan Brasna]

> 1) does anyone have an idea of how to approach learning CSS other 
> than just learning the tags and learning case by case how browsers 
> react in different ways?

I think nowadays there are "traditional" methods as various books, 
courses and workshops that can probably teach the best methods of 
avoiding such situations and erratic behavior:







You can also find many CSS design patterns as:



> 2) what do people think of trying to encode all this data / case 
> studies on this list into some sort of expert system

Most of the information is stored decentralized with only lists to 
summarize that. To have an idea how it looks like have a look at:



-- 
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net
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Re: [css-d] min-width in IE 6 on inline/block element?

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Sophie Dennis wrote:
> In fact, isn't this the same as height/min-height? It isn't that 
> height in IE6 is *the same as* min-height. It's that IE will expand a 
> box to fit its content, regardless of height/width specified. So in 
> IE6 "height: 500px" won't give the same effect as "height: 100%; 
> min-height: 500px" will in other browsers, just as "width: 500px" 
> doesn't give the same effect as "width: 100%; min-width: 500px".

No, you're right about the combination of height and min-height, but I 
was merely referring to each of those properties when used independently 
(which they usually are, or should be most of the time). So, IE will 
treat a div with "height: 500px;" the same as other browsers treat a div 
with "min-height: 500px;". It treats height exactly like min-height. But 
yes, if you start combining properties, you can't always get IE to 
emulate what better browsers will do.

> Now I've engaged brain here I think I may need to join your mission to 
> squash sloppy thinking on this one ;-)   [hangs head in shame...]

No shame, but I would appreciate the backup on my mission. ;-)

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Rounded tab menu.

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Christopher Blake wrote:
> http://3pointdesign.co.uk/GB/gb.html

> To the right of the tab the green/yellow does not fill.  Any 
> suggestions??

Not sure I understand.
Is this what you want...

...?

Looks like only :hover styles set the proper background-position, so I
added a static background-position for 'li.active'.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Horizontal navigation with background image & inheritance problem (Driving me mad)

[Jeroen]

On 2/15/07, Martin Gojowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> that´s the problem using templates. You often don´t know what really happens

> Are you sure, there were no floats?

True, if it's very complicated. But i tried to really just use the
essentials. But i
really missed the float's ;) I guess i was working too long and
overlooked it. Now i
know why it needed the clear. Thanks!

In general btw i would recommend people to start learning by looking at public
templates and tweaking it. (Besides of course reading the relevant
literature ;))

Regards,

-- 
Jeroen
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Re: [css-d] targeting a link inside a tag

[Bradley Wright]

On 15 Feb 2007, at 15:22, Ross Hulford wrote:
> Is there any way to target a link within a  tag. Link are  
> already set and I want to set a style specificlly for links inside  
> 

h2 a { /* styles */} ?



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Re: [css-d] targeting a link inside a tag

[Sophie Dennis]

Ross Hulford wrote:
> Is there any way to target a link within a  tag. Link are already set and 
> I want to set a style specificlly for links inside 
>
>
> Request our FREE recruitment DVD by clicking  href="#">here 
>
>
>   
Just use:

h2 a { /* style rules here */ }

You'll need to make sure you over-ride your default styles, resetting to 
'default' where necessary. If you have default a:hover, a:visited etc... 
defined, use the same construction to override them:

h2 a:hover { }
h2 a:visited { }

(ps. in your specific example you might want to change the HTML to more 
like Request our FREE recruitment 
DVD . For various reasons including: larger link target (easier 
to click), your link text is your call to action (more likely to be 
clicked), and the link text makes sense out of context for speaking 
browsers).

-- 
Sophie Dennis, Creative Director
Cayenne Web Development Limited
www.cayenne.co.uk


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[css-d] targeting a link inside a tag

[Ross Hulford]

Is there any way to target a link within a  tag. Link are already set and I 
want to set a style specificlly for links inside 


Request our FREE recruitment DVD by clicking here 


R.
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[css-d] [ADMIN] Apologies for spam appearing on list

[Alex Robinson]

Dear list

You may have noticed a couple of spams appear on the list within the last hour.

Someone is obviously taking the time to subscribe to the list since 
only messages from subscribed addresses get through to the list. 
Unfortunately, unless the message goes above 20k in size, there's no 
way for our mailing list setup to automatically stop such antisocial 
behaviour until after it's already happened.

This message then is simply to apologise for these messages - I fear 
we may see some more in the near future...


Best wishes

Alex
css-d moderator


PS. Eric and the other moderators have been discussing what we might 
do about this - if you have any crazy ideas or solutions then please 
feel free to contact us with them, but please please please, don't 
send them to the list.
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[css-d] [ADMIN - please read if replying to this thread] Re: expert system for CSS?

[Alex Robinson]

>2) what do people think of trying to encode all this data / case
>studies on this list into some sort of expert system - i am thinking
>something where you could type in keywords or a description of your
>problem and the system serves of possible useful info and examples of
>problems solved?   If there is something out there already, please
>let me know.   As for the task of programming something like this, it
>(to me) is more tractable than figuring the behavior of IE5/Win,
>IE5/Mac, IE6, and IE7    :)

If you/anyone could come up with such a beast then it would certainly 
be a fantastic and worthwhile beast. However, I would ask that people 
write directly to Douglas to discuss this off-list, whether they are 
actually interested in taking some active part in such an effort or 
even if just to say "It could never work".

Mmmkay?


Alex
css-d moderator
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Re: [css-d] expert system for CSS?

[tedd]

At 2:09 PM + 2/15/07, Douglas Fraser wrote:
>Everyone,
>
> Ever since I joined this list, I have been impressed with the
>wealth of knowledge here and people's willingness to help.  I've been
>programming for 12 years and the front end CSS / JS / DHTML stuff has
>been giving me a headache every since I really got into it a year ago
>or so - it doesn't seem amenable to the more organized way of
>programming other stuff - there are so many exceptions and corner
>cases due to browser behaviors etc so I am wrestling with trying to
>develop that body of experience / internal database of knowledge
>about how to solve problems
>
>So, given my perspective as a sort of novice here, I was wondering:
>
>1) does anyone have an idea of how to approach learning CSS other
>than just learning the tags and learning case by case how browsers
>react in different ways?  yes, the box model etc...  I guess I'm
>struggling with how to make my understanding more intuitive (so I
>don't have to spend hours searching the net for relevant info on a
>issue)
>
>which leads me to
>
>2) what do people think of trying to encode all this data / case
>studies on this list into some sort of expert system - i am thinking
>something where you could type in keywords or a description of your
>problem and the system serves of possible useful info and examples of
>problems solved?   If there is something out there already, please
>let me know.   As for the task of programming something like this, it
>(to me) is more tractable than figuring the behavior of IE5/Win,
>IE5/Mac, IE6, and IE7    :)
>
>doug


Doug:

It's a nice idea, but the permutations would be staggering for a rule 
base system. If this was easy, then everyone would be doing it.  :-)

Besides, we have something similar called Google. Whenever I find 
myself with a piece of code that just doesn't work the way I want, I 
type the statement in Google and usually find an answer where someone 
else had the same problem.

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
---
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
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Re: [css-d] min-width in IE 6 on inline/block element?

[Sophie Dennis]

Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote:
> Sophie Dennis wrote:
>   
>> IE6 treats "width" as "min-width"
>> 
>
> No it doesn't. This is a common myth. IE treats height like min-height, 
> but not width like min-width. Case in point: make a page with a div with 
> a red background. Give it min-width 500px. Observe that in Firefox the 
> div will grow to fill the window at all widths except 500 and below, at 
> which point it's fixed at 500px. Observe that in IE the div will never 
> grow to fill the window but will always be 500px. Not the same at all.
>
> Not picking on you, Sophie -- lots of people make this mistake -- but 
> this myth continues to get propagated and it's one of my pet issues to 
> squash it. :-)
>
> Zoe
>   
Hi Zoe,

You are quite right and quite right to pull me up on it. Serves me right 
for posting without brain engaged properly.

I should have said that in certain cases you can use IE6's mishandling 
of overflow on a fixed width element to simulate the min-width behaviour 
of other browsers. But you can't use it to create fluid/flexible layouts 
in the way you can with proper min-width support.

In fact, isn't this the same as height/min-height? It isn't that height 
in IE6 is *the same as* min-height. It's that IE will expand a box to 
fit its content, regardless of height/width specified. So in IE6 
"height: 500px" won't give the same effect as "height: 100%; min-height: 
500px" will in other browsers, just as "width: 500px" doesn't give the 
same effect as "width: 100%; min-width: 500px".

Now I've engaged brain here I think I may need to join your mission to 
squash sloppy thinking on this one ;-)   [hangs head in shame...]

Sophie

-- 
Sophie Dennis, Creative Director
Cayenne Web Development Limited
www.cayenne.co.uk

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[css-d] news websites..

[stopyerdo erdo]

http://seektoinfo.com/?x=&Directory=/News/Breaking_News/
   
  http://www.fallindirectory.com/?x=&Directory=/News/Media/
   
  http://www.obtaininfo.net/?x=&Directory=/News/Weather/
   
  http://www.pickupinfo.net/?x=&Directory=/News/Media/Services/

 
-
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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[css-d] webaddress..

[omer durmus]

some related useful directory web adress;
   
  http://www.takeindirectory.com/takein.aspx?tr=Business/Business_Services/
  
http://www.findindirectory.com/fallin.aspx?pr=Business/Investing/Stocks_and_Bonds/
  http://www.click2info.net/directory-content.aspx?pr=Computers/Internet/
  http://www.findindirectory.com/fallin.aspx?pr=News/Media/
  http://www.takeindirectory.com/takein.aspx?tr=Shopping/Health/
  http://www.directoryofmusic.net/opmusic.aspx?pr=Health/Medicine/
  http://www.directoryofmusic.net/opmusic.aspx?pr=Kids/Sports_and_Hobbies/
   

 
-
8:00? 8:25? 8:40?  Find a flick in no time
 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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[css-d] expert system for CSS?

[Douglas Fraser]

Everyone,

Ever since I joined this list, I have been impressed with the 
wealth of knowledge here and people's willingness to help.  I've been 
programming for 12 years and the front end CSS / JS / DHTML stuff has 
been giving me a headache every since I really got into it a year ago 
or so - it doesn't seem amenable to the more organized way of 
programming other stuff - there are so many exceptions and corner 
cases due to browser behaviors etc so I am wrestling with trying to 
develop that body of experience / internal database of knowledge 
about how to solve problems

So, given my perspective as a sort of novice here, I was wondering:

1) does anyone have an idea of how to approach learning CSS other 
than just learning the tags and learning case by case how browsers 
react in different ways?  yes, the box model etc...  I guess I'm 
struggling with how to make my understanding more intuitive (so I 
don't have to spend hours searching the net for relevant info on a 
issue)

which leads me to

2) what do people think of trying to encode all this data / case 
studies on this list into some sort of expert system - i am thinking 
something where you could type in keywords or a description of your 
problem and the system serves of possible useful info and examples of 
problems solved?   If there is something out there already, please 
let me know.   As for the task of programming something like this, it 
(to me) is more tractable than figuring the behavior of IE5/Win, 
IE5/Mac, IE6, and IE7    :)

doug
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Re: [css-d] Dead (or covered?) links in Safari (Was: Complex layout works on MSIE 5 & 6 but not 7

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:46:20AM +0100,
>  Stephane Bortzmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote 
>  a message of 20 lines which said:
>
>   
>> Many thanks. I used the new one as a basis for my site. Now,
>> http://www.bortzmeyer.org/ has the new stylesheet. With Firefox and
>> Konqueror, it is OK, I'll test with MS browsers later.
>> 
>
> A Safari user recently discovered a bug: the links in the left column
> are "dead", they do not respond to clicks. (Other links, in the main
> column), are OK.
>
> It appears only in Safari, it seems.
>   

This is a bug in Safari 1.3 and 2.0:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/float_negative_margins/

The workaround is to put position: relative on the sidebar, apparently.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] CSS to NOT cache a single image

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Timothy Martens wrote:
> Wondering if there is someway to have an image NOT cache. I'm using  
> an animated gif as a background image on a link:hover. It works  
> consistently in Firefox, but Safari only plays it on the first  
> instance of hover unless the page is reloaded. Not sure about IE.
>
> Working example here: http://www.splashdesign.com/dev/css/cssd/
>   

Hi Tim,

Remember that CSS is a language for creating style, not an all-purpose 
web development tool. The caching of images is not a style issue and is 
controlled by a combination of your server settings and the user's 
browser settings. I suggest you Google for "stop image caching" or use 
another webdev list to find the solution to your problem:
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic

Best,
Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] negative margined sidebar moving when window narrowed in IE

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
>   
>> I have moved leftcolumn into the bottom of contentwrapper, but the
>> source-order is otherwise the same and nothing is added or  
>> subtracted...
>> 
>> ...so, maybe it'll do.
>>
>> How is IE7 doing, btw? (I really dislike "blind hacking".)
>> 
>
> I use basically the same technique on a couple of sites. Holds well  
> in iExploder 7.
>   

The technique I use is exactly the same, except I use a margin on the 
container div instead of padding. Padding is better because that way you 
don't need to add yet another container div if you want a background 
(especially faux column one) behind the columns. This holds up well in 
IE7 and IE6 with no problems that I've seen. I think I shall switch to 
it. Thanks!

> One note though; the wrapper should have position relative as well.  
> I've seen the sidebar jumping to the centre in IE when resizing.
>   

I'm not seeing it on Georg's demo page, but I have seen such a thing on 
more complex pages I've made with my similar method. So yes, it's 
probably safest to include it.

> For the large image (applies to IE6 on narrow windows) I wrap the  
> image in a box:
> .img {margin:0 -200px 0 0; position:relative; height:0;}
> /* right margin equivalent to size of sidebar */
>   

I'm not seeing the need for this -- the layout holds together fine in 
narrow windows for me. What is this supposed to do?

By the way, do any of you think we're ready to start using display: 
table layouts, and just feed IE the alternate CSS for these negative 
margin layouts? I've written article about it, but I haven't ever used 
it for a real site. I'm getting ready to complete rebuild two big sites 
that will probably not get rebuilt for several years after this, so I 
want to choose my layout method wisely.

Thanks,
Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] negative margined sidebar moving when window narrowed in IE

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote:
>
>   
>> Speaking of being proven wrong ;-), Georg, do you have an index on 
>> your site indicating what each of your layout pages is demonstrating?
>> 
>
> Have I done something wrong..? :-)
>   

No, you're just much, much smarter in CSS than I am, so you often prove 
me wrong -- which I like. :-)

> No, I have no index for those demo/test pages. That's my public
> playground and I thought each page was self-descriptive enough.
>   

The pages themselves are, but I have to click through to every single 
one to see what it is and compare them with each other, instead of 
having an index that lists "two column fixed header" etc. If you don't 
have an index, no worries of course, just checking.

> Haven't studied in depth, but I think an article in the last ALA is
> somewhat close to what I'm doing...
> 
>   

This is basically the same sort of thing which I've been using for 
awhile. But I too haven't studied it in depth.

> Now I'll have a look at your latest...
> 
> ...and who knows what may come out of _that_ ;-)
>   

That is *not* mine. Like I said, it's just the exact same thing as the 
one I found on Dynamic Drive. I just put it on my server so I could test 
it with a big image inside. Don't want to take credit where it isn't 
due. :-)

Zoe

--
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] min-width in IE 6 on inline/block element?

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Sophie Dennis wrote:
> IE6 treats "width" as "min-width"

No it doesn't. This is a common myth. IE treats height like min-height, 
but not width like min-width. Case in point: make a page with a div with 
a red background. Give it min-width 500px. Observe that in Firefox the 
div will grow to fill the window at all widths except 500 and below, at 
which point it's fixed at 500px. Observe that in IE the div will never 
grow to fill the window but will always be 500px. Not the same at all.

Not picking on you, Sophie -- lots of people make this mistake -- but 
this myth continues to get propagated and it's one of my pet issues to 
squash it. :-)

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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[css-d] Dead (or covered?) links in Safari (Was: Complex layout works on MSIE 5 & 6 but not 7

[Stephane Bortzmeyer]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:46:20AM +0100,
 Stephane Bortzmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote 
 a message of 20 lines which said:

> Many thanks. I used the new one as a basis for my site. Now,
> http://www.bortzmeyer.org/ has the new stylesheet. With Firefox and
> Konqueror, it is OK, I'll test with MS browsers later.

A Safari user recently discovered a bug: the links in the left column
are "dead", they do not respond to clicks. (Other links, in the main
column), are OK.

It appears only in Safari, it seems.

Any idea?
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Re: [css-d] negative margined sidebar moving when window narrowed in IE

[Ingo Chao]

Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
> ...
> For the large image (applies to IE6 on narrow windows) I wrap the  
> image in a box:
> .img {margin:0 -200px 0 0; position:relative; height:0;}
> /* right margin equivalent to size of sidebar */

Very nice and handy. A wrapper that prevents the column wrapper from 
being expanded.

:)

Ingo


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[css-d] Rounded tab menu.

[Christopher Blake]

Hi all,

I have created a horizontal tab menu but am having problems with the  
active tab.

http://3pointdesign.co.uk/GB/gb.html

http://3pointdesign.co.uk/GB/gb.css

To the right of the tab the green/yellow does not fill.  Any  
suggestions??

Chris








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Re: [css-d] Horizontal navigation with background image & inheritance problem (Driving me mad)

[Martin Gojowsky]

Hi,

that´s the problem using templates. You often don´t know what really happens

> "The clear property sets the sides of an element where other floating
> elements are not allowed." However AFAIK i'm not using any floats at
> that point. Can anybody please
> explain this?
>
>   

Are you sure, there were no floats?

>/* -- Header -- */
>#header{
>background: 
> url(http://jg2.intellit.nl/cm/themes/jg_photography/images/jg/headerbg.gif) 
> no-repeat;
>width: 760px;
>height: 136px;
>float: left;
>}
>
>.head1 {
>width: 485px;
>padding: 40px 15px 0 0;
>text-align: center;
>float: left;
>}

Sincerely
Martin Gojowsky





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